2 November 2008

17 year old overdoses on heroin in one of canberra's 'regulated' brothels

| madocci
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The Canberra Times has reported that:

“Janine Cameron was found dead from a heroin overdose in Fyshwick’s Exotic Studio brothel on September 15, just six weeks after her 17th birthday.”

This leads me to question the level of exploitation that the prositition industry turns a blind eye to. Is it time that we revisited the regulation of the industry?

“Generally speaking, the advice I have from the police is that there is not a significant level of criminal activity in the industry.”

Are we to believe Simon Corbell?

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Holden Caulfield11:14 am 13 Nov 08

I reckon Friday’s 2XX piece will be a doozy!

Maybe it should be yahoo.com.au?

Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address.

:
Remote host said: 554 delivery error: dd This user doesn’t have a yahoo.com account (martin19731973@yahoo.com) [-5] – mta453.mail.re4.yahoo.com [BODY]

I did try.

Martin, your behaviour is not acceptable.

Cease the personal attacks on other readers or be no longer heard.

This is a final warning.

Tess

You never once said you worked for Chantalle, yes the Julie from the Downer murders,
are you ashamed and for? Wrap your own self up in cotton wool about your own business but reality is you know first hand you worked for Jules for her as Chantelle or Hollywood Studios or Gentlen prefer blondes. You were her so called friend but never mention her on this site.

For gods sake what the Canberra times did printing about her don’t you think you owe her not only as your boss but your personal friend to shed some light on her personality too?

Grow some balls, or forget the fact that you turned up to her funeral and turned a blind eye to it all. We know who you are clearly!

Mis Moniker,
Try the addy of martin19731973@yahoo.com
the capitals were wrong!

FC

Join the industry for a week and make up your own mind you pig!
See the clients, meet the girls then comment unless of course you a regular and
expect it all for free

madocci

You have mentioned on this post that your sister has been involved in the industry yet you be a hypocrite and tend to judge those in the industry. If you only read and took in what some of the working girls on this site are saying maybe you may be able to connect with your sister again. When you judge her and speak so lowly for working girls your sister is never going to be upfront with you.
For goodness sakes, let down your guard, you obviously came from the same family and background, don’t judge your sister as harshly as you have of other working girls on this site as she is one of them. When you learn to accept your sister for what she does for a living them maybe she will come around, believe in you and talk to you about her life.

Just read the posts carefully as the way you are carrying on no wonder she is not confident enough to approach you with her lifestyle.

I am not saying that out of spite, only from my heart so you will know which place she is in at the moment.

Rikochet, you don’t need to atone for anything, honey. You are special for who you are, not for what you do or don’t do.

Be at peace, and enjoy the life that you have.

madocci said :

I think the point is that it isn’t a career choice that you are proud of.

That is why I am interested in hearing from women who are prostitutes and how they reconcile it with their families. It is not a path to be proud of, even if that is just via the attachment to an industry that takes advantage of our most vulnerable, let alone the rest of the objectification of women issues. The men who use these services are even worse as far as I am concerned, IMO they wouldn’t be using them if they had someone they cared about in the industry.

Madocci, Yes, its not a path to be proud of, which is why there is so much secrecy involved. I come from a very proud,hard working family who taught me respect, worth and consideration. How I ended up where I did is anyones guess. the hardest thing I ever had to do was to tell them what I was doing. At first they tried to help and then when that was fruitless they just stood back and hoped for the best. My mother told me once that she would dread the phone ringing as she always thought it was the call that she expected, the one informing her of my death. My father found it harder to deal with and totally withdrew from anything to do with me. I guess he found it easier to believe I was ‘gone’ than to have to deal with the reality of it all. Even now that I have changed my life , My father and I have this unresolved issue that will never be healed.

Whatever I did to myself during that time was nothing compared to what I did to my family. That is my deepest regret. I cant do anything to change the past. Being sorry will never be enough as far as Im concerned. Being all that I can be and succeeding in life is the only atonement I can find.

I have to address your comment about ‘What type of man would want a family & life with an ex-prostitute?’
I was offended by that comment. Your past doesnt always determine your future. I have found that people are more accepting of who you are now as opposed to who you were back then. They are understanding of the obstacles you overcame and the judgements you had to endure.
When I met my (at the time, future husband)the first thing I did was to be completely honest about who I used to be and what I used to do. I told him I would understand if he wanted out, as it was still a new relationship. He was obviously thrown by this revelation, but after he took some time to work it out he came back and told me that he respected my honesty and didnt care about my past as it was only the future that he was interested. So I guess in regards to your question, the answer is a non-judgemental, understanding, caring man, who sees in me the person I have become, not the person I used to be.

Ta Tess Ryan, there goes my whole conspiracy rant. Ive also been told that M#### has had little to do with the day to day running of Exotics for the last year. Not sure how reliable that is though. So I guess Ill just pull my head in and wait for the official report.

Given that I spent eight years working in Canberra’s studios and still know many Canberra studio workers, I hope that my experience will lend me some credibility when engaging in this enormous discussion.

There is really no point in saying that I’m different because I’m independent. I worked in studios for a long time, and I enjoyed it and found it to be empowering, fun, interesting and positive. Some haven’t had that type of experience, and I acknowledge that each individual has led their own life and their experiences are valid whether they are similar to mine or not. However, to say that the only experience a person can have as a sex worker is negative, whether in a studio or elsewhere, is painting with a broad brush to your own agenda.

Of course I realise that there are people whose minds are made up, and can always find some way of justifying their own position despite any evidence to the contrary. The argument that my experiences must be different to everyone else’s is a common one, although it never seems to correlate that a negative experience also isn’t everyone’s. It’s so much more comfortable to acknowledge that which meshes with your own beliefs. Cognitive Dissonance wins again.

Sex workers who work in studios are not forced to. They can choose where they want to work and if the conditions, rules, receptionists, other workers or general environment aren’t to their liking they can go to a different one.

Some studios have strict rules, some have almost none. Some have a policy against drug or alcohol use, some take the view that it is the workers’ choice. Those who say that the sex industry in general, or the Canberra industry in particular, is ‘rife with drugs, underage girls, organised crime and violence’ are indulging in a rather twisted fantasy.

Why they are choosing to indulge in it is something that I’m not sure I want to explore, but it’s quite common for people to eagerly repeat stories of sex slavery and other sexualised violence against women with a lascivious gleam in their eye while mouthing disapproval. There are times when I can only shake my head in astonishment.

What happened with Janine Cameron is a tragedy, but it would be no less of a tragedy were she to have died elsewhere.

There are drugs all through society, at every level. Please note that when I refer to drugs I really mean drugs and alcohol. Some people use them, some don’t. Some use them for a lifetime without any negative impact, some use for a day and everything falls apart. Sometimes it ends in death, and I would hope that everyone would feel regret at that outcome.

Some people seem to think that cracking down on drug use will stop these problems. Despite the evidence that countries which have a no tolerance policy on drug use and no NSP have negative health and community outcomes.

What happens when drug users have to hide their drug use because of increased harassment? It becomes more dangerous. It increases the risk that if they overdose they won’t have anyone to help them, that they will be rushed and damage themselves while using, that they will take less time and be less careful about how they use. That can result in increases in incidents of death from overdose, Hep C infection, endocarditis and vein problems.

I applaud Simon Corbell for taking the time to get informed about the Canberra sex industry before speaking out, for meeting with sex workers to discuss the current issues, speaking with the police about their interactions with the industry, and for not jumping on the political bandwagon. He’d be much more popular if he was making uninformed statements about the industry needing to be more heavily regulated, but he didn’t take that easy route. Before any conspiracy theorists start, he is not a client of mine and I disagree with some of his past actions, but credit where it is due (sorry dexi, but I know you’ll still love me in the morning, no?).

The Canberra Times should be ashamed of that article. Their inclusion of Julie was unnecessary, not to mention irrelevant to the death of Janine Cameron, as was most of their unrelated incidents that they threw in like a dog’s breakfast. Because Julie was a sex worker her death is in some way related to the industry? How rude. Given the plethora of information floating around Canberra about that court case the Times would surely be aware that it was not. It makes such good copy though, doesn’t it?

For the feminists: please stop reading the likes of Sheila Jefferies, try some Roberta Perkins to even out the perspective.

Those who seek to control our sexuality through feminism are ignoring our right to autonomy and are in fact more insidious and damaging than the worst sexist male, who can be dismissed easily as a relic. A woman saying that the sex other women engage in should be controlled and certain types eliminated is respected as though she is somehow free from bias or cultural conditioning. It is wise to remember that feminists are subject to the same influences as everyone else in society.

I’m still not sure why people assume that regular exposure to male genitals and money would cause a reduction in intelligence, autonomy and strength of character, who knew that that the penis was so potent?

Many sex workers, myself included, are feminists but we tend to form our own opinions on the rhetoric. We could perhaps be described as some of the most radical feminists, in as far as we are distanced even from the feminist movement by those who should be our strongest supporters. Xenophobia manifests in many ways.

The well intentioned ignorant do more damage to the rights of the individual than any regime.

I know there are studies which say that sex workers experience high levels of assault, mental health issues, drug use, etc. I’ve seen them. Most of those studies tend to be from countries which have criminalised or heavily regulated industries, with few exceptions. There are often problems in their methodology including interview techniques, testing protocols, collation and statistical analyses. You should never believe everything you read in a study, you should carefully check their methodology, their critics, their publishing history, the type of journal it was published in, whether the journal is peer-review, their references, whether the study passed an ethics committee and which one, whether it was academic or privately funded and the background and qualifications of those who ran it.

Try looking at the Australian studies that show a very different picture of the industry to those cited by anti-prostitution campaigners, which show high levels of education, job satisfaction and autonomy amongst Australian sex workers. If you can go to the effort of finding the negative studies, then finding the positive ones should be just as easy. If you are confident in your assessment of the industry then you shouldn’t be afraid to look at the other side of the coin.

As for the Swedish model, everyone loves that one except the sex workers in Sweden who have to live under it.

A short excerpt from Petra Östergren, ‘Sexworkers Critique of Swedish prostitution Policy’ says:

“…sex workers in Sweden experience difficulty in finding accommodation and constantly worry about being discovered. Consequently, they are either forced to move or pay exorbitant rents. They cannot increase their level of safety by working in pairs or groups and find it difficult to have any sort of domestic or family life as they are considered to be unfit parents. Östergren writes that sex workers find the law paradoxical, illogical and discriminatory. ‘It further obstructs their work and exposes them to danger.’ The better clients have gone away but the more dangerous and perverted ones remain and when apprehended are likely to deny that they paid for sex, if indeed they have. Greater competition leads to lower prices, but this only means that women take risks and are more likely to perform acts that they would have refused previously. Sex workers feel hunted by the police and dare not report abusive customers. However, they still feel stigmatised as weak, dirty and mentally ill, or as having drug problems. Some of the sample interviewed by Östergren reported that they felt used by politicians, feminists and the media who brag and tell lies about the beneficial effect of the Swedish law in comparison with other countries. They are only listened to if they say the politically correct thing.”

More can be found here for those that are interested:
http://www.nswp.org/laws/self-sweden-20061211.html

I’m afraid that it’s true, many people choose sex work who have other options. The studies I mentioned earlier show that sex workers come from all walks of life, and that’s consistent with the range of people I have met through the industry. Does the choice of a woman without a University education have any less validity than that of those who are qualified as nurses, teachers, academics, lawyers and social workers? I tend toward the view that each individual has the right to make their own choices without needing to justify them to others, and certainly not to strangers who persist in referring to them as victims.

Some people have asked why sex workers don’t tend to discuss our work with friends and relatives (or strangers on websites), and then go on to say that we must be ashamed, and that shame is what we should be feeling. Those attitudes are precisely why people don’t discuss it. Why should we expose ourselves to such unwarranted vitriol? Is it our responsibility to have that fight every single time we meet someone new?

You can’t win an argument with an ignorant person.

There are some here (and everywhere) who won’t listen to a word I say, because they don’t want to. It’s better to remain ignorant, because ignorance is bliss, I can see that and even sympathise a little. It must make life a lot easier, god knows mine would be if I believed everything I read in the Times. Why should we publicly proclaim ourselves sex workers and then defend our choices? It just can’t stack up against evidence like ‘What some bloke down the pub told me’, ‘What I saw on A Current Affair last night’ and the all time classic ‘Everybody knows that…’.

Thank goodness there are those who are willing to listen to all points of view before forming an opinion, and who have the moral strength to reassess even their most treasured opinions whenever new information comes to light.

Several people have pointed out that I, and those other sex workers who have commented here in a positive way about the industry, do not answer questions about our personal lives, relationships and partners. When we choose not to discuss it, because it is in fact no one’s business but our own, they jump to the immediate conclusion that the real reason for not telling complete strangers everything about our personal lives must be because our relationships are flawed or non existent.

For the record, the majority of sex workers I have known have been in relationships while working. They tend to break up, make up, fight, love, have children, be romantic and all the other things involved in a relationship just as much or as little as everyone else. The only real difference is in the ‘type’ (god help us we just can’t escape the stereotyping) of partner they have. The partners are men, women, trans, het, bi, gay, young, old and every conceivable variation on human you can think of.

The one thing they aren’t though, is people who judge us for our work.

So to the whole ‘all sex work is wrong.. wrong.. WRONG’ gang, please feel free to MYOB. I don’t need your respect, I have my own.

…and that of my family, friends and coworkers. 😉

HeHeHe I couldn’t help my self. ….

lol dexi.
so wrong though

FC “Its also about society’s standards of waht is okay and what isn’t.
and it stems back even further to societies view of women on a whole.”

Surely it actually stems back to societies view of a hole on a woman?

PTA meeting conversation starter… Raise your hand, those that have sold themselves to a man for a better life and been disappointed with the out come.

I hate the idea that women have to objectify their bodies and commodify themselves in this way.
I guess this is an issue that runs a lot deeper than just the industry.
It is also about demand.
Its also about society’s standards of waht is okay and what isn’t.
and it stems back even further to societies view of women on a whole.
And Saying that it is the oldest industry doesn’t legitimise it or make it seem as though it is a necessary part of society. Historically the standard that women (and people) were treated was worse than it is now so it is little surprise there…

Lets not kid ourselves.
The prostition industry in Canberra isn’t a wonderful workplace full of empowered, emotionally healthy and happy woman who think its great they are working in their ideal career.
A lot of it is linked with the underworld, and is infested with drugs, voilence and abuse.

I also wonder – if one is not ashamed of their profession – would they avoid disclosing it at say – a pta meeting? or is it just society that has the problem as they are too judgemental of something they know nothing about ??

A long time ago, a friend came to me because she was having problems with her teenage daughter who had a heroin addiction. She was worried about the much older boy friend, who kept phoning. The family where frustrated and distraught by the whole situation. They had managed to bring her home and get her some help. Then one night the boyfriend turns up and takes her from the home. Two nights latter she was back working at Touch of Class, the boy friend was M####. There was little any of us could do. Ive heard from other families, who have sad stories that lead back to this one man.

Before you all get on your horse and want to tackle the evils of the world, you might like to tackle the men that do evil.

Oh madocci, that is very very sad to hear, I am so sorry.

My heart goes out to you and your family and also to Janine Cameron’s family. Please do not think that I am legitimising the abuse of young girls, I am not…dexi was exactly right when he/she mentioned the “girls network” that exists. I have been personally involved in seeing to it that underaged or otherwise vulnerable girls have been removed from a premises and the word put out that it was not a good idea for them to remain working, anywhere. Enough said on that.

Please be reassured though that the experience of working in the sex industry is never the same for everyone…and assumptions and generalisations about the people who provide or use the services are neither relevant nor useful.

I hope all ends up well for you, your sister and your family my dear ***hugs***

I think men just kid themselves that the women enjoy it.

Or they have bought into the objectification of women so completely that they couldn’t care less.

– and before you complain that I’m generalising again – I’m really interested to hear differently, but as long as nobody’s talking, I’m left with my generalisations.

I think the point is that it isn’t a career choice that you are proud of.

Having had a 15 year old sister pulled into this life, in a story that is very similar to Janine Cameron’s makes it a very hard topic to tackle for me. No matter how straight she became afterwards, the shame of her previous life and inability to relate properly to men caused ongoing problems until she eventually went back to the life she had entered when she was 15. Her (very young) children or family have not heard from her in eight years. What make me sick is people legitimising this abuse of young vulnerable girls. If it were your sister, mother or daughter your opinion would change.

That is why I am interested in hearing from women who are prostitutes and how they reconcile it with their families. It is not a path to be proud of, even if that is just via the attachment to an industry that takes advantage of our most vulnerable, let alone the rest of the objectification of women issues. The men who use these services are even worse as far as I am concerned, IMO they wouldn’t be using them if they had someone they cared about in the industry.

sepi said :

The fact that most prostitutes don’t chat publically about what they do says it all about the industry really.

Not exactly sepi, it’s more about discretion. What is there to say? And would you stick around to hear it if they did? (I love your generalisations sepi, “most” prostitutes don’t talk about what they do publically because it ain’t nobody’s business but theirs)

I also feel so sorry for Jeanine’s family. She was only just 17 – so sad.

Madocci I also have family experience in this issue and it is so unbelievably depressing.
Education did nothing to keep her out of it – drugs got her into it.

I was genuinely interested in your questions above too. The answers would only be one person’s story, but it would be interesting to me.

The fact that most prostitutes don’t chat publically about what they do says it all about the industry really.

So much better the illegitimate take care of the vulnerable or better still they should just disappear.

Well i am glad you had such a wonderful fullfilling and stimulating career in an industry that takes advantage of our most vulnerable. The tragedy of the industry is what this thread highlights. You may want to legitimaise it as a career choice for people, but you are in the minority, and I think misguided.

My heart goes out to Janine Cameron’s loved ones, I hope they can find peace. I also hope the industry is reviewed after this tragedy.

Sorry dexi, you are right. Enough already.

Men don’t come in “types” madocci. Every single one of them is an individual in his own right…so I couldn’t possibly offer you a category of man that would give you the kind of answer to your questions that you are seeking. Perhaps you could ask my partner, (who is fully aware of my previous career) if you should ever bump into him.

Again, what makes you think/assume that anyone who chooses to work as a prostitute has not had “a good education”?

And,

madocci said :

Following that- why would you choose prosititution over a long term, intellectually stimulating, well paying career that doesnt come with shame?

well, rather than assume, generalise or jump to conclusions about ANYone else, I can only speak for myself in answer to this. Shame is not a word I would use, I was never ashamed of my work. It was what I did, not who I was. I worked in the sex industry for quite some time, so it was indeed long term. It was as “intellectually stimulating” as any job, sometimes very interesting/thought provoking other times, not so. You would probably be astonished at the about of time I spent in one or another of my professional encounters without actually having sex. Oh and for the record madocci, I was well paid for my work, exceedingly so.

Oh and I didn’t avoid the “loved ones” topic madocci. It is just frankly none of your business.

Or take it to……. http://the-riotact.com/?p=9573 where you can explore on topic.

Maybe you might like to start a new thread to tackle that one. I’m not sure how it relates to Janine Cameron death.

Oh sorry I must be misguided. If you could just answer the following two questions it would make it easier for me to understand:

What type of man would want a family & life with an ex-prostitute?
With a good education you could earn the same $ without having to sell sex for money no? Following that- why would you choose prosititution over a long term, intellectually stimulating, well paying career that doesnt come with shame?

I noticed you avoided the loved ones topic too.

Um, what makes you think that someone who has worked as a prostitute is incapable of a “decent loving relationship”? Or that they will be denied “future happiness”? Or, (my favorite) that they have not had “a decent education”?! You are kidding, right? You may well have “personal experience with this exact type of situation” but where do you get off believing that you can speak for anyone other than yourself on this matter?

Doesn’t it just hide you from the shame you would feel amongst family and friends?

I would prefer to know if a loved one had this ‘alternate life’ so I could do everything I could to help them out of it. I would be so ashamed to have a daughter who was a prostitute, wouldn’t you? When friends ask what your mother, sister or daughter does you say “oh she’s a prostitute”. Its not people being judgmental, its people wondering what possible desperation you could have to sell your body and future happiness in decent loving relationships for money that could be earned through a decent education. What kind of man would want to be with and have a family with, a prostitute? I must just be judgemental. Having said that, I also have personal experience with this exact type of situation which I feel legitimates my view.

I propose we look at prostitution law and learn from Sweden who made the use of prostitution services illegal (the men are liable not the women). The UK is looking at adopting similar laws now. The prostitution industry uses and abuses the most vulnerable in society. That is really uncool.

I would love to hear of loved ones of prostitutes. What do they think? Do they wish for a better life for their loved one?

It reflects a level of separation between the fantasy character and the real person. It allows for a unique moniker (Trade mark) amongst a group. But just like on RA it separates us from views that we may not subscribe too, but are willing to play along with for some form of gain. Some are just for fun. Aren’t they Miss Moniker.

Hi madocci. I can only speak for myself here but the cloak and dagger stuff is kinda necessary if you wish to keep the two halves of your life separate. It may not suit everyone to have all the people in one’s life fully aware of that particular career choice. People in general can be extremely judgemental.

Nope. Still bouncing.

If prositution is such a legitimate career choice and nothing to be ashamed about, why the need for all the cloak and dagger stuff?

Martin , you are a a stirrer hey !

I know you are an ex brothel worker .. guessing by now you are 43 yrs old correct? …

I doubt you were as close to julie as you think.. but signing your name as belinda .. thats wrong and sophie too ! geez girl .. get a day job.

Thanks rivett2008, will try it again

Skidbladnir, your comment should be aimed at the person ‘ANT’ who originally commented on the ‘Downer murders’, as this post releated to the death of a poor girl on drugs & it also related more so to the industry. ANT couldnt help himself but comment and as dexi mentions above this was all perpretrated also by the Canberra times bringing the poor Downer female victim’s working history into their front page story about the poor young lady that lost her life to drugs. Totally separate deaths.

I feel for both families at this time greatly – Its upsetting enough for all the family/friends of all victims involved recently, lets not make any more comments on here everyone that will only cause more pain for those left behind. The whole thing is too sad.

Martin obviously knew the victim well & is clearly upset due to her working history bring brought into her murder, that is obvious.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us Martin.

PS: I did try Martins address and it didnt bounce back!

Yes this thread relates to the death of Janine Cameron in a workplace, from a drug overdose. As discussed, the downer murders have no direct connection to the sex industry apart from Julie previously having worked in it. Its more of a salacious connection, aimed to denigrate a victim, perpetrated by the Canberra times, in its original article about Janine Cameron.

poptop said :

…planned rendezvous …in a park… possibly involving secrets in plain brown paper bags.

The secret is cheap vodka then, isn’t it?

HA! Martin, your email addy doesn’t exit.

I have consciously not commented on the industry, owners, workers or clients. While I have known a number of people associated with it, they are mainly just people.

The ‘weird’ comment related to this thread becoming like a poorly written spy novel. I am still hopeful of there being a planned rendezvous involving the wearing of flowers, in a park, near a pond, feeding ducks and possibly involving secrets in plain brown paper bags.

If you want to talk about Downer murders, find\create a Downer murders thread?

Hi all, no, things are not getting weird. Some of us that have worked in the sex industry prefer to keep our identities private. The concept of having more than one name is familiar to us, we are used to it and there is not necessarily anything sinister about it, just a desire to keep the two halves of our lives quite distinct from one another.

Martin, you asked me some questions on another thread on this forum, I will happily answer them but not here…thank you for posting your email addy, I will contact you there.

Hello poptop

Nah things are not getting weird, Martin1973 appears to have been reading up on other posts where a few people have already commented on Scott.McDougall and how violent he was to Donna33 & his brother being a policeman, thats where that info has come from. If you do a search under the Downer murders you will read all those comments about him being violent to Donna33. Strange enough perhaps it is true as Donna33 has not commented since those posts were made.

But hey everyone here is guilty of getting on here & at times either ranting, talking straight to the point or talking in circles from what I read, this is my first post ever, normally I only read this site but watned to commented back to you.No-one can really point the finger at anyone on this site.

Some of the comments amaze me but I guess thats what this site is all about,however I do find it interesting when some on these sites are quick to judge others yet those that do judge are hypocritical as they have made the most weirdest comments themselves. Such as that ANT person who got the deceased people incorrect on the site, then when he was told the facts he/she never came back on site to apologise.

Anyone can have thier say on this site about anything thats what many people keep reminding us all including the owner of the site, thats why posts are left up and not taken down. Well as per previous posts I read it states nothing is monitored before being posted. I quite often read this site but never remark on even the most weirdest comments.

As for Martins comment above it doesnt appear weird to me – he/she appears to be trying to contact someone that appears could be known to him/her thats the impression thats coming across.

I got the impression that he/she really was having a joke about all this A.K.A name stuff as if you read other posts under the downer murders about the identified female victim in the Downer murder many people have made post after post all commenting on A.K.A names, lol. Have to agree with the above comment everyone on here is using A.K.A names, not our real names..

Should I call myself Cindy, Mark, Peter Pan or what?

No its not getting weird, whats weird is there are so many naive people on this site that like to have their say, comments & make posts up about A.K.A names as mentioned under the post about the deceased female who was identified in Downer.Oh best I mention I am not the deceased’s sister either,(As I understand that was one of the deceased sisters name was which was in the acknowledgement notice from Canberra times), I am from the ACT & was friends/wroked with Jules for many years. Yep another A.K.A name, Belinda & we all have plenty of them – Who on this site uses their real names anyhow everyones ID is A.K.A name. Poptop etc.
Also reading on other sites I read that Scott played the song whats the time MR Wolf the day he murdered these two people by a Ruby? I would like to know if they are all rumours or if this guy is for real as if its true he is one crazy sicko person.

Thats all from me,
Sophie

Is it me or is this getting really weird now?

Rikochet,
If you want to contact me on the above email no -one else will know it is you.
If you give me a few hints about Chantelle I will know its you. Did you know her
dogs name and the suburb or who she lived with at the time.
I will keep it most confidenital and of you give me your details I promise no one
else will get access to them. Obviously twats will pretend they are you but I will know
as soon as I speak to you about Chantelle – We were so close that you should have no doubt.
My heart goes out to her family & her only nephew James that Jules so much adored & he adored her so much. He has lost such a special persoan in his life who only shazred love with him & vice versa. She was the best Aunty one could have asked for & what this monster MdDougall doesn’t realise is he has hurt so many people due to one night on the
drink. No he was not on drugs, a calmative after he committed the crime. No matter if he gets murder or manslaughter lets just hope he is put away for a long time, if he doesnt committ suicide befor them, afterall her murdred two great friends.

Let it be known to the public that when Scott lived in Indonesia, with his mother and brother he had to attend a special school due to his violent behaviour as a child. Yet agin that is Scotts brother a policeman/dectective to come forward with these facts as Donna33 told the story off hand anc I wouls be happy to testify that Scott was violent and you as his brother was a womaniser.

Thats all from me
Belinda

Hi Dexi/rikochet,

As for A.K.A names well who would know who I am, this site is full of A.K.A names. And why not for any fool out there that believes the names they read on this site.

Yes I worked for M*** over 14 years ago, sorry not once was Id asked for, a fake tax form and thats all that mattered, he was in for the cash and that was it only!

What a pity Jules (Chantelle) didn’t get to write the book she started & for all you politicians out there, oh don’t worry its all documentated, Jules was no fool & facts kept with others. Oh there are so many out there Rickochet as you mentioned. No-one will ever find the details as they are in safe hands! Rest assured on that one!

The establishments do run nowadays but from only scumbag owners of brothels, these days the decent owners are sadly gone. They all went into private working estalishments which eliminated the scum associated to the industry. Whilst Jules(Chantelle was involved in the business she was often in contact with the sex industry of the ACT.

rikochet – Is there any way we can make contact without the public knowing. Do you remember her dogs name at the time or her partners name? If you do please email me at
Martin19731973@yahoo.com – I will know it is you when you email me with info. Give a good description of Jules and the date you worked for you. If you email me your mobile I will ring you and no one else will have access to this but me. Try and give away as much hints as you can.

I am so saddenned by the death of Jules, she was as beautiful inside and outside, I am closer to her than most could imagine. She didnt deserve this death from a longtime friend and even through her working days she was still a loveable person. Her memory will live on in my heart forever, her smile, her style was almost like Marilyn.Monroe and her facebook site shows that.

If we cannot make contact via email on her please log onto facebook under Julie Tattersall and give me a hint to know its you.

Her relatives her loved her so much that nothing will ever take that
away, the saddness in my heart will only grow stronger as Jules was one in a million
who had her own insecurites all through life, sadly got strong at the end but it was a
friend that murdered her, not adlledgy, he outright murdered her in the most horrific way possible. He destroyed her beautiful face and I will not say anymore other than
rest in peace Julies, you will be as beautiful inside and out in heaven.
I cannot wait to see you again, I will miss you so much.
You know who I am, if not the closest person to you,
xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo xo

I suppose now we will have politicians, exploiting the industry, for their own political gain, to shift the blame from their own political failures.

These guys were some of our most frequent customers.. I doubt very much that things have changed there.

Martin, yes, I do know who ‘Chantelle’ was now.. I go as far back as the days of Winsome, Charlie,Harry and Asian Linda.. I was wondering if W.I.S.E even frequents the establishments anymore? I know alot of the girls involved with it.

In regards to M.. I cannot understand how he is still allowed to operate. I have had many dealings with this man. Infact, in the early days we actually helped him get Exotics up and running. He was in the building trade back then and came into some $$$ and decided to build his own place. He started off with good intentions, but it didnt take long before he changed. Allowing this man a license to operate a brothel is like giving a pedophile a licence to operate a childcare centre.. Sounds harsh? Well if you check out his history in the industry over the past decade, you would definatly agree.. I dont know of one person who would have something good to say about this man.

Be proud of your nuts Martin, we like them.

JB. “This leads me to question the level of exploitation that the prostitution industry turns a blind eye to. Is it time that we revisited the regulation of the industry?”

Not all owners and workers turn a blind eye. Young girls are turned away from brothels, usually just going down the road and trying their luck in another one. The “girls network” follow their progress around town, usually finding out if a brothel lets them work. This is where you get reports of under-age workers surfacing. Prostitutes are concerned about the welfare of minors too.

In this case you have an owner that is known to take young girls as his “girlfriends”, feed them heroin and have them work in his brothels. He has had an under-age girl die in his business. Yet where are the howls of scumbag from RA? Where is the unfounded ridicule? Where is the lynch mob? He has even been defended by the A-G Simon Corbell.

I would say it’s the wider community that turns a blind eye. They just don’t care what happens to people, they perceive as “junky whores”, as long as they can f### them.

We have regulation. So far its failed to stop drug dealers setting up brothels, even though there are provisions for this in the prostitution act. It is the enforcement that is failing.

I suppose now we will have politicians, exploiting the industry, for their own political gain, to shift the blame from their own political failures.

Special G,

You’re a nutbag yourself you hypocrite, what its ok for you to make a few posts
but not for anyone else.

Did you get your brains out of a Special K box?

Sorry as for my comment above
“I could & would never judge”

I meant to say “I couldn’t & would never judge”.

There are no doubt going to be some harsh comments on what I have had to say but to those before you post any comment just think carefully as one day it may be someone that
you love dearly or a relative that sadly becomes involved in this industry.

It doesnt matter what background you come from, rich, poor, well educated working ladies/girls come from all walks of life.

So you cannot comment on civillised people would never go there as majority of working people never thought they would end up there either.

rikochet,

Thank you for your kind words, I wonder if I know who you are just by reading your posts. I am guessing you have been out of the industry for a while now & I knew many that worked in the industry dating back 15 years now.

Not sure if you knew Julie otherwise known as Chantelle, Jasmine & they are one of many names. Years ago she worked in Fyshwick before taking on the Mitchell business. She was lovely & anyone who knew the real julies knew how kind she was & even her being a Madam & working herself she never pushed any of the girls into drugs, infact she cared for the ladies that worked for her & quite often was taken advantage of & used by many people due to her kind nature.

As your know people that have been in or are in the working industry in the ACT know of each other or who each person is either under by working names or real names. You would know how easy it is for working girls to fake their age, fake Id,or not complete correct tax forms when starting work with a fake date of birth and name, or start working at a brothel where there is a scum owner who will accept them anyhow, so at times it is impossible for anyone running a brothel to know the real details about a girl/ladie who approaches them for work. On the other hand there are also genunie owners of brothels.

What I would suggest in the ACT is that they look more into the owners of each brothel, such as M**** who has always had a bad reputation. Do police checks on their backgrounds & make it harder for them to obtain a business as such. But as I mentioned in another post by making the legal age of working girls older is not going to change anything, they will find other ways of working. They will only take their clients with them & work privately. Its reality and anyone who thinks its not is wearing purple coloured glasses. There will be more illegal prostiution on going in the ACT. I certainly would hate the fact that any young girls may start walking the streets & entering into a car with a complete stranger to do a job as anything could go wrong.

I could & would never judge any working girl/lady as being so close to one I know all the ins & outs of the business, all the tricks & trades. Only those that have been there or close to those that work there will ever understand that way of life. They are human, mothers, daughters, sisters, relatives and could be the person living next door to you or the nurse who takes care of you whilst you are in hospital, same with addicts they dont walk around with signs on their heads advertising what they do in their personal lives.

Some are lucky & succeed in the business & dont get involved with the drugs as they tend to keep to themselves not speaking to any working girls/ladies about their personal lives or where they live, yet others sadly do get involved with drugs before working or when they start working & remain close friends with those in the industry going through the same situation as themselves. Most people working in the industry know they will be judged easily if anyone finds out sadly.

Also lets not forget the men that use these services – they dont tend to be judged. Some are married men, in relationships or on the other hand lonely and looking for female company either due to a deceased wife/partner, no body wants to have sex with them or they are just lonely and want to chat.

Very true what you mentioned about genuine friends in the business, they tend to come & go & only you yourself will know who were your genuine friends there for you in times of need.

I have plenty of views & experiences on this topic but sadly there are many on this site that are too quick to judge those in the industry or the industry itself.

Its so nice to hear that you are doing so well & you obviously are a sucessful person as you have learnt from past experiences. I hope from the bottom of my heart that those involved in the industry that are there to support a drug habit do find a positive open door out of that industry & those that are there not to support a drug habit do make their money and move on after that to follow their lifes dreams.

Thank You all for your kind posts.

Granny, as far as smoking goes, Its one of the few vices I have never kicked either. I dont see it happening in the near future either. I guess I see it as ‘theres worse things I could be doing’.

BerraBoy, In regards to your question about underage girls working in the industry to further their education, yes it is true. But… In a majority of those cases the work lifestyle outweighed the inspiration for being there. Not all UNI students were underaged. Many were mature women who had children and some were even doing it to put their children through University (usually without their children knowing where the funding came from). Unfortunatly, many of these women lost their focus and inspiration and ended up failing their degree or just dropping out all together.
I have also worked with women who did succeed and I have to say that these women were the exception to the rule. Any woman that could work ‘straight’ remain focused,still go to school and pass their grades deserves the utmost respect.

Martin1973, thank you.. not too many working girls have the opportunity of having caring ,supportive friends. Most of my ‘friends’ were there for the good times and nowhere to be found for the bad times. I knew at the time that they were not genuine friends, but hey, because I was at a very low point in my life, I figured ‘who was I to judge them’ You know the saying, Misery Loves Company..and generally its misery’s shout!
You come across as a very valuable friend . They are lucky to have you looking out for them. It would be cool to hear more about your views,and experiences on the subject.. Canberra is a small place and The sex industry and drug world are even smaller,
Im pretty sure we know alot of the same people. I dont live In Canberra anymore, but I have strong family ties there. when I visit them its often quick and ‘covert’ lol. I often wonder how old acquaintances are doing.. Unfortunatly Im still not ready to seek them out. Temptation is still not an option.. Even this far down the track.

Dexi
Hello, have just finished night shift and on the internet.
I was so pleased to have read your comment, please go visit your friend, knock on the
door, leave a letter in the mail box and do what you feel the need to do. Let your friend know you are there through good times and bad, as if you make judgement your friend will never turn to you in need.
Yes the difference is exotics was a workplace, however that doesnt have really any relevance if someone is using or not as I mentioned it goes on all the time in the ACT and has for many years now. Herion is being used by all walks of life from many people.
Personally myself I have never used the drug, simply becuase I have seen too many peoples lives destroyed by this drug. Its not so much that the drug is so bad for the body as speed which has more of a violent effect, damaging calcium in the body years later but herion is much worse due to the lifestyle that one has to live to keep up the habit. Which is the saddest part.
Leave your friend a card in the mail box and let them know you are thinking of them. Dont be scared what you may see, always remember drugs change a person but let them know you are always there for them.
You are a lovely person with a heart of gold. Dont ever lose that special trait that you have as a person just because someone you once knew has been involved in herion. It is a sickness, the same as gambling, drinking, etc, they all have one thing in common, and it is an addiction.
I knew Julie well who was murdered in the Downer double homocide & I can confirm that her working in that industry has nothing to do with her death. Never once did she push drugs on any girl working for her, more than anything she was friends with the girls that worked for her, that is why I am so strongly against people referring to herion addicts being asscociated with the prositution industry. I can tell you that some people Julie knew who were on herion had nothing to do with the prositution industry, and sadly this young girl has died due to being at work and on the drugs. As for M****** at exotics, he has always had a a bad reputation. This was well known over 14 years ago.

As for Tezza, you worked for Julie, I dont know what you are ranting on about when you have your own site for the business. If you knew Julie well enough you would know that they did do expections on her business & she was often in touch with the Australian Sex Workers Association, they knew her well. You run your own business so dont be such a hypcrite getting on this site making out you are so innocent! You worked for Julie yourself at one time in Mitchell. The question you should be asking yourself is are you having inspections? Or must I get on line and give out your site?

That is unbelievable. How is that possible – is there some legal loophole that prevents the police from arresting and charging her?

Just to outline a single case: Simon Corbell and all the relevant ACT Government authorities have been made fully aware over the years of an ‘intellectually mild’ sex worker in the Bruce side of Belconnen who has openly run an illegal, unregistered brothel out of her government flat since 2002. The ACT Government is fully aware that she hires one or two other girls at various times, but is also unregistered as a solo operator. She operates both at her flat and visits clients. The proceeds go into pokie machines rather than on heroin. She is not addicted (other than a severe addiction to gambling) but keeps her girls on drugs. She is on the full disability pension, due to her ‘intellectual impairment’ (which hasn’t prevented her excellent small business turnover!), and she is charged the minimum ACT Government rent on her flat, despite a consistent, regular income of at least $4000 a week, that the authorities know about. She takes no OHS precautions and is a risk to clients, herself and her ’employees’. She has been reported to the minister, ACT Housing, the community advocate, ACT Police and Centrelink several times since 2003. She is still advertising in the Times every week under the same pseudonym and mobile number. There has been no official investigation into her, no attempt to regulate her, no assistance or health instruction provided – despite lessons that should have been learned from the HIV male prostitute last year.

Simon Corbell has in my opinion, taken an unusual step in commenting on the ongoing investigation of the death of Janine Cameron. (See today’s Canberra Times, p7, “A-G defends brothel operators over death”) To me, this shows a level of naivety that a man in his position should be above. Either the law enforcement haven’t briefed him properly or they have no idea of what been happening in their own town. It screams of incompetency or corruption. He is our A-G and is defending a drug dealing brothel owner who is notorious for paying his girls with heroin.

More likely Simon doesn’t want to have to start doing inspections, that would cost money.

It is interesting. Normally when a bad event happens, pollies say ‘this is tragic, but we are pulling out all the stops to make sure it won’t happen again’.

Simon instead has gone the other option ‘this is an isolated incident, everything is fine’.

He’s basing this on the good results from the last inspections, performed in 2004, and with the brothels given notice that inspections were underway.

So what does M**** have on Simon Corbell that he would defend him in the Canberra Times. “A-G defends brothel operators over death”

Yes Martin I have been turning a blind eye. I have a friend who has been clean most of her life. Recently she brought a man in to her life that turned out to have a heroin addiction. There was violence and abuse. She has disappeared as such, no more emails or phone calls. Her family won’t visit. I haven’t been able to go round because there is nothing I can do and I’m scared of what I will find. I promised one of her international pen friends I would check up. So in the spirit of not turning a blind eye I’ll catch the bus and knock on the door.

The difference for me is, Exotics is a workplace.

If anyone knows of anyone in the ACT that is selling herion or any illegal drug
now is the time to report it to the drug squad – Unless people come forward and
report the big suppliers I am sure we will have many more deaths from this horrid drug.
Its not only about the prostitution industry many herion users are in the ACT working
in all professions and for those of you who think you are well above the prositution industry please take on board people who walk the streets in the ACT yes dressed in suits dont wear a big sign on their forehead advertising that they are a user.

madocci
You may have mis-read my post I should have been clearer, no not any decent man will go and committ the crime of rape if they don’t have the opportunity to pay for sex, in saying that I was more referring to after a strip show it is common knowledge that rapes do occur after these shows. Do some research on the rape crisis centre background & it will shed some light for you to read up on. Sorry if you mis-understood or I worded it wrong.

As for your comment
” To place prostitution in a category of making the streets safe for everyone else is the most ridiculous argument yet.”

What do you suggest – We shut down all brothels in the ACT and have working girls standing on the corners waiting to be picked up by anyone who is willing to pay for sex? Be another kings cross – Then you really will have prostituion out of hand in the ACT. Either way it is the oldest profession there is and I would much prefer a working girl to be at a safe premises than being picked up by a complete stranger they do not know.

Dexi

“No, people should point the finger at the business she was working in. Pirate monkey are you turning a blind eye.”

No you are turning a blind eye, you have heard a story of a poor young girl who has died in a brothel recently, but how many other people die of drug overdoes in their own homes in the ACT that you never hear about? Pirate monkey is not turning a blind eye at all, it appears you are, herion is all over the ACT not just in brothels.

Dexi
agree with you the Downer murders should not have been brought into this post, they are two separate types of death. At least the in-experienced Canberra times reporters could have got the deceased month of death correct, it was Sept not Aug. Nothing has been suggested that it was related to the prositution industry & the animal that did this murder had nothing to do with the prositution industry nor did the other deceased male.

rikochet

Congratulations on making your break, you were one of the lucky ones. Sorry if I seemed upset in my posts it saddens me to think that people so uneducated about the industry are so judgemental. Sometimes people do what they have to do at times and when they know better and are on their feet more they move on from that industry. Agree with you, its the money factor too, money easy come easy go through ones hands. And living life working 9 to 5 is hard for any working girl after being in that industry for many years is hard for them. They need support and all the help they can get.

These days more girls are working privately than from a brothel. I would love to go into more facts but at this time I won’t. I know first hand exactly from a working girl who was in the industry for years the lifestyle, easy money, drugs, friends who come and go in that industry and the list goes on but you have pretty much covered much of it in your posts.

One should never judge those that have or are in the industry.

All I can say is “Well done Rikochet”.

Closest I’ve been to the industry was working as a compere/bouncer for a group of female stripers in the early 90’s. Girls were good but the owners were greedy, sleezy grubs who were always trying to get the girls into bed. I quit when I realised this. The final straw for me was when the owner (in his 60’s) took the girls mobile phones from their bags while they were dancing and told them if they wanted them back they had to come over to his house.

During the night (the girls danced three times a week alternating between Mitchel and Fyshwick Taverns and the Jammo Inn) there was also a raffle. The prize was half hour at one of the local Brothels. I used to talk to the girls when they came in to run the raffle and they were always very friendly – not in a professional way, just nice to talk to.

On the underage issue, there was an article in the CT seveal years ago indicating that a majority of girls in teh industry in the ACT were Uni students trying to fund their studies. In your expereince would thisbe accurate, Rikochet?

Wow, well done on turning your life around, Rickochet! I have so much admiration for anybody who can do what you have done. I had enough trouble giving up cigarettes.

As an industry I do believe it is abusive for the reasons that you have mentioned. I have also heard that anywhere you see “fresh meat” signs to suspect that trafficked women may be supplementing the demand for new, young faces. As you say, the demand is relentless.

I found the movie, “The Jammed” to be a very powerful depiction of the sex industry at its worst. While this movie is more relevant to trafficked women, it is based on a true incident of a young woman escaping from a brothel in Melbourne.

If you earn $600 a day, can I ask what you do with it? Do you ever go on holidays or buy nice clothes – or does it all go to drugs?

If you could avoid the drugs side of it you would be earning a bucket load of money. But I guess you’re saying you don’t enter it to make money, you enter it to escape and you do drugs to keep going.

Sands, When I first started in the industry I didnt have a drug habit.. I had experimented with drugs and thought of myself as a recreational user.. I was however in debt and the industry offered me a quick fix solution.. After the first week I was back in charge of my finances and I decided to quit my ‘real’ job and make enough money to buy a home and set myself up for the future.. It was supposed to be a one year plan..

Within a month I was addicted.. Not just to drugs but to the constant flow of large amounts of money and the constant ‘party’ lifestyle. The freedom of jetsetting around Australia and working at place to place to earn extra $$$. Buying expensive clothes, jewelry and basically living the life of luxury. At that time it was all tax free. Cash in hand work, the industry was not regulated , or (tagged as regulated)..

As the years went by the money became less..down to $300 per shift as private workers were starting to take the clientele out of the brothels and would charge alot less for alot more. By this time I needed to work longer hrs and needed more drugs to do so. I no longer chose to work , I was forced to work and thats pretty much when the reality hit home for me. I was in too deep to get out, I had forgotten how to live ‘normally’, I couldnt imagine taking a 9-5 job earning $300 per week or even how to find a ‘real’ job again.
At the age of 21 I thought I had no choices left except to stay in the industry.. I hated the work, I hated the customers, the owners , the constant B/S of the whole Industry, but most of all, I hated myself.. It took me another 9 yrs to finally find the strength to get out and another 2yrs to get clean from the drugs and that was just the beginning. I found I needed a complete re-education in life skills, it was hard and often I wanted to go back to what I knew was easy, but 7yrs later I am now a Manager within a very well known Company and and I am looking at going further with my career there. This site, this topic brought it all back to the surface, it has reminded me how far Ive come and how far I can still go.. Thank you for allowing me to share.

rikochet said :

While at this point Im sure many of you are wondering “how can this be stopped” “What can be done”, the answer is NOTHING..

It is “the oldest profession”, after all.

God rikochet, you don’t come off as cynical or insensitive at all. What a crisp review of your experience. Thanks for sharing it.

If you earn $600 a day, can I ask what you do with it? Do you ever go on holidays or buy nice clothes – or does it all go to drugs?

If you could avoid the drugs side of it you would be earning a bucket load of money. But I guess you’re saying you don’t enter it to make money, you enter it to escape and you do drugs to keep going.

Wow…. hot topic ..angry posts.. Im probably gonna get crucified for this but WTF here goes..

Martin1973- I feel your frustration on this subject. It is difficult to read misinformed posts about an industry you know and about friends you have lost, I understand that…
However, In order to bring about education and understanding on this subject you really need to be less aggressive. Offer more fact and less emotion in your arguement and accept that even in doing so, in the end many will still not agree. Yes its very frustrating when you know the facts through personal experiences with the industry and the scars those experiences have left on you, but remember that many other people know only what the media has reported about the industry and draw their conclusions from that information..

I was in the sex industry for 15 yrs. During that time it was Northside Studio’s that had the bad rep, with Exotic Studio’s running a close second. From what I read in these posts ,it seems E.S has the same manager.. Surprising that he still is able to operate, as underage workers were often found at his establishment,and also the fact that his place was well known for drug use and drug dealing, You have to wonder whats going there..

Underage workers back then were a dime a dozen.. Managers did everything they could to keep them employed and always covered the I.D part of it . Police raids were always “penciled in the diary” so Owners knew when to remove the girls from the premises. many of these young girls came into the industry because they knew someone already working, or had an older partner who paved the way for them. Many already had drug habits and the ones who didnt use drugs, very quickly joined the side which did.. They used Speed to stay awake longer and make more money, they used Heroin to take away the emotion of the job, they drank to put on a false mask of happiness and they smoked weed to wind down at the end of the night, only to get up and do it all over again.. Most of the owners took on a parental/mentor type role with these young girls, encouraging them to do whatever they had to do to make more money. Often these girls were told how ‘lucky’ they were to have this opportunity as no other industry could offer a 16/17 yr old $600 per shift…They glamourised the Sex Industry , they built up their egos and they discarded them when they were no longer of any value. By this time these poor girls had already experienced a lifetime of trauma and depression and were not yet even in their 20’s..

While at this point Im sure many of you are wondering “how can this be stopped” “What can be done”, the answer is NOTHING.. Sorry but thats the reality here. Its all in the sales. Customers want young girls, it is the most common request all places get. They want new faces, younger, more naive and easier to manipulate. The owners want the regular trade so they give the customers what they want. The only time the sex industry is investigated is times like now, when there has been a death on premises. After the media attention dies down everything will be buisness as usual again and the only thing that will be in the Canberra Times will be a bold new advertisment in the Job Vacancy section offering someone a chance to make huge amounts of $$$ in a stylish, friendly, drugfree, clean establishment… No experience necessary!!!!

15 yrs in a soul destroying industry..sorry if i come off as cynical or insensitive.. Im not out to insult or provoke anyone here, I guess I feel that you should know just a little of what goes on in the other world.. Its not an easy lifestyle and it consumes you very rapidly . Sex workers are not to blame for the toxic industry they work in, yet with that said, they are not victims either… Everyone can make a choice, even the bad choices are not set in cement..You CAN change your life, you just need the right inspiration .. I know this because I found mine. If your reading this and your a sex worker, I truely hope that you soon find yours too.

Yes I-filed, reality. No need for a slaughtering.

Thank god for the emotionally weird I say.

haha I love it I-filed! But you’re going to get slaughtered for that.

dexi – nice thoughts but:

no drugs in the workplace = no sex workers in the workplace. Only the emotionally weird can handle prostitution without drugs.

support & going clean for drug addicts in brothels = they’d realise what they’re doing and stop

the sorts of people who run the sex industry don’t care about their workers’ welfare, OHS etc – it’s the underworld!

Johns paying more = more heroin going into their veins

There was never any point ‘legitimising’ the industry – why would this particular industry want to be legitimised – higher overheads, tax, johns scared of risking their anonymity … if you modify the ‘drug-f*cked skanky ho’ aspects of the trade, the johns wouldn’t have any ‘product differentiation’ appealing to them.

The Downer murders were mentioned in the original Canberra Times article…

From The Canberra Times, p1 on Saturday 1st November 2008

“Former Canberra madam, Julie Franko (AKA Tattersall) was allegedly murdered in August, although it is not known if her death was related to her long-term involvement in the industry.”

…and you are right about the relevance of mentioning it, either here or in the newspaper. I found it offensive too.

Piratemonkey said :

i’d tend to think that you can blame the older guy for this one. He probably got her the herion, he probably got her the fake ID and he probably suggested sex work etc etc

Me to PM. HOwever when it’s written like that this ‘older guy’ sounds a lot like a stereotypical pimp.

ant .. shame on you , to bring the downer murders into this is disgusting .. you dont know your facts enough to even suggest such things … the murderer was a ‘ wannab bikie’
and that is fact ! please respect the deceased , your comments were not relevent nor related to the issue, I found your comments rather offensive.

I want to know if the owners of these businesses are too well-connected / sensitive for there to be any inspections over the past 12 months. Maybe the claims about the mafia and bikie gangs aren’t that far fetched; imagine openig that can of worms.

It’s a ridiculous situation – regulating brothels isn’t anything like regulating pubs or restaurants. Where’s the government’s skill base in regulating this field of activity?

Piratemonkey5:14 pm 03 Nov 08

Im sure brothel owners follow ID procedures. They would be crazy not to do such a basic check. A fake ID on the other hand is not very hard to obtain.

While the following is pure speculation id tend to think that you can blame the older guy for this one. He probably got her the herion, he probably got her the fake ID and he probably suggested sex work etc etc

Great post dexi.

Jonathon What is going to be done to ensure that the same (or a similar) situation does not occur again.

After a little thought some of the below might help the brothel industry.

– Talk to the workers they know what is best for their industry.

– Brothel owners should follow the ID procedures for new workers.

– Brothels are business, they employ workers they should have OHS.

– No drugs in the work place. No dealers in the work place. What workers do at home is their business.

– People that have drug problems should be offered our support, resourses and understanding so they can return to work fit and healthy (regardless of job).

Sex work is undervalued and much maligned. Punters, pay more cash and be respectful.

My daughter had a conversation with an independent sex worker while we were out in Mitchell one day. She claimed that all the girls were owned either by the mafia or the bikies, and that she had been trying to help the other girls get off the drugs, but the owners didn’t want them to. She said the police wanted to keep her in there for that reason, but in the end she was pushed out.

She was also trying to help teach them to dissociate so they were more capable of dealing with the work.

She seemed comfortable with who she was, and like a nice person trying to make a difference.

I just have to wonder whether people who financially benefit from the drug addictions of others, who have everything to gain and nothing to lose by the continued addiction of those people, and only stand to lose if the addiction is cured, really deserve to prosper from the human suffering associated with addictions of this nature.

Here is an interesting article about prositition in canberra and its ‘regulation’.

“Prostitution and brothels were legalised in Canberra in 1992 when the newly formed ACT Legislative Assembly passed the Prostitution Act. Canberra’s sex industry was one of the first in Australia to be so-called “regulated”. Ten years later regulation is almost non-existent.”

“It is clear now that the real purpose behind legalising prostitution was to normalise and promote it for commercial profit.”

“65% of prostitutes have a habit and brothels need drug addiction to be commercially viable.”

“The national capital of Australia should follow Sweden’s lead and recognise prostitution as male violence against women and children. “

Anyone know of any lobby groups on this issue?

madocci said :

“But rape does not come from sexual frustration at not getting any, it’s far more sinister than that.”

Agreed, its actually about power and control, not sexual frustration.

So, another reason not to trust politicians? 😉

1) How and why was a minor working in a brothel and why did this occur given that the industry is supposed to be regulated in the ACT?

A. Because Exotics didn’t stop her, when she turned up for work. Id say they where just happy that she had an addiction and that was good enough.

2) How and why did the deceased end up on drugs (addiction) and ultimately who is responsible?

A. She would have to tell you her story and as that isn’t going to happen, you will have to rely on those people who where close to her, as to how and why. Responsibility lies with those who supplied the drugs inside the parlor, who supplied her first hit, and the rest of us, for not caring what happens to a drug user.

3) What is going to be done to ensure that the same (or a similar) situation does not occur again.

A. It will happen again whilst you have the M####’s of this world running brothels.

I think it’s dangerous to say that the incompetent regulation of the ACT Government indicates the impossibility of a well regulated industry.

But even if we assume that incompetent regulation is all we can hope for here in Canberra is the current situation worse than one where prostitution is illegal but still ongoing?

In the news:
Hunt on for pregnant sex worker in Queensland
Child safety officials are trying to find a drug-addicted Brisbane prostitute who is advertising for work while she is eight months’ pregnant.

Men do sex work as well(obvious). People are traded as commodities all the time in all kinds of industries. You might like to look at the marriage industry for a better, far bigger example, of merchandising and possession. Prostitutes trade sex(Intamacy, understanding or just a good chat) for cash. If you want to buy a women you’ll have to go elsewhere.

Your close though. Maybe its the view of one man in this case who has this commodity idea. Purchased with drugs.

Jonathon Reynolds10:48 am 03 Nov 08

I just want to know just three things:

1) How and why was a minor working in a brothel and why did this occur given that the industry is supposed to be regulated in the ACT?

2) How and why did the deceased end up on drugs (addiction) and ultimately who is responsible?

3) What is going to be done to ensure that the same (or a similar) situation does not occur again.

“But rape does not come from sexual frustration at not getting any, it’s far more sinister than that.”

Agreed, its actually about power and control, not sexual frustration.

Pommy bastard10:18 am 03 Nov 08

Most of us choose to give ourselves a helping hand when we aren’t getting any. Fewer resort to professional services, a very small number resort to rape. But rape does not come from sexual frustration at not getting any, it’s far more sinister than that.

“I know first hand from one of the workers this information and I would much prefer to see a person going to a brothel to pay for sex than committing the crime of rape on an innocent person.”

Are you retarded?!?! So we are meant to believe that men who don’t have the opportunity to pay for sex will go out and rape someone? I am getting tired of comments being made about what slaves men are to their sexuality. It essentially gives a free pass to do whatever the hell they like. Men are just as capable as women are in controlling themselves, some just choose not to. Its a disservice to men to treat them as infantile and incapable of self control.

To place prostitution in a category of making the streets safe for everyone else is the most ridiculous argument yet.

Arguing that the drug addiction happens before prositution is irrelevant. The point is that prosititution is not the top of anyone’s life goals, it is a career choice made when you are desparate. Desparation leads very easily to being taking advantage of.

Surely the perceived benefits to society are far outweighted by the negatives that it creates in prositutes’ and their families’ lives?

The HIV positive male prostitute Hector Smith was only dealt with in the ACT after another state alerted authorities. So our regulations aren’t dong that much for health outcomes.

And comment #24 is exactly why I don’t like the prostitution industry. It gives men the idea that women are some sort of commodity. Sad.

Martin – just got yourself the title of three post nutbag.

Bringing uninformed opinions to the table is what Riot is all about.

No, people should point the finger at the business she was working in. Pirate monkey are you turning a blind eye.

Piratemonkey4:04 am 03 Nov 08

Lol id agree with martin… People need to stop using these good/bad black/white generalisations when it comes to certain types of people, professions etc etc. Stop speculating on something you know nothing about and trying to hold yourself as higher then “those people” or something.

We all live in some shade of gray or another whether you have ever had a speeding fine or drunk a little to much alcohol or have a nasty drug habit.

Just because it happened in a brothel does not mean the sex industry is at fault. People should be pointing the finger at the older dude she was with.

My thoughts are with her family and friends tho. So sad. 🙁

Another comment for you ant

This post was about the poor 17 year old girl who sadly has lost her life due to drugs where she was found in a brothel. Don’t put the poor girl down because she had an addiction & was there obviously to make money.

This tragedy has nothing to do with the incident that occured in Downer – The downer murders that happened have nothing to do with prostitution or a brothel – It is a animal that took the lives of two people. A murder & a drug overdose are two differnt deaths completely & so what if the deceased female in Downer was previously a Madam some years ago, she didnt hide it.

At this time my thoughts are with both families who have lost their loved ones in totally different circumstances. Its just a sad tragedy.

And for anyone else who reads these posts I would suggest you ignore this pig ant that speculates about both murders.

He is one sad person who has to shit on deceased people without knowing the first hand details.

And no I am not in that line of work but know of many who have been.

It is small minded people like yourself that walk around with purple coloured glasses on.

There is no doubt there is alot of saddness from peoples past or events/influences that have taken place or simply for financial reasons to turn to prostitution.

You are also degrading the poor 17 year old by referring to her working in a brothel as being connected with the underworld and shame on your for yet again having your negative comemnts about people who are not here to defend themselves.

You should take your own advice what you told Sepi and go and sell your own butt – get with the real world and realise we dont live in fairy land.

ant

You don’t need to tell me about the accused I know – Pity you dont know the facts & have to go on speculation & stuff you read. The person that did murder her was not a member of a bikie gang you ning nong, it was the other male who was murdered. Shows how well you really do know that people that you are slagging off about. And the person who murdered her she was never in a relationship with him – He was a friend of many years. Again you are another out that that is speculating about details you have no idea about and shame on you.

Yes if you don’t know the underworld dont go making up friction stories – As you know the animal that did this has a brother who is in the police force & I am sure he doesnt find it all amazing like you do. Maybe you ought to have a good long hard think about what you are referring to when you say normalised – These victims have loving families, and were loving people themselves, you didnt know the deceased so what right do you have to be commenting and speculating.

What you don’t appear to realise is that many working girls and perhaps people you know would never tell you that they have worked or are working – Thats why there are so many aka names used for various reasons not just prostitution.

Oh then again you may be the type if you have children or neices of nephews and think when they are teenagers they are still playing with the fairies – Your eyes are obviously shut to what goes on in the real world.

Dear Martin 1973,

The person who was murdered in Downer was connected (quite firmly) with prostitution, in fact she ran a brothel. The person who is accused of murdering her was a member of a bikie gang who was previously in a relationship with her. QED.

For people in your line of work, this stuff is normalised. For those of us unconnected with the underworld, we view it with amazement.

MissMoniker

You would also know Tanya Rae?
And Gypsy?

MissMoniker

You commented on another post about the deceased female in downer, are you able to comment to ant who refers to her death being related to the prostitution industry?

You knew her, Did you ever see her push drugs or exploit any female workers there offering them drugs to keep them there? From what I understand she was never like that and in honestly I think that her brothel was one of the more decent ones that were up and running in the ACT and run by one of the only females so there was no male there pushing drugs onto workers. Quite simply she was not an evil person and what a shame that there wasn’t more Madams around like her who were honest and nice and did have a kind personality.

Sorry this whole thing upsets me the way she has been painted in her death, as ‘ Dirty ‘ put in her previous post she would have accepted any criticism had she been here today with us but she is not here to defend herself. Yes she knew M***** and didn’t like the way he ran his business at all and the way he manipulated the girls.

How very sad this poor young 17year old has been taken under such sad circumstances. My thoughts are with her family and loved ones at this time.

Sepi, Good thing that you regret commenting on these topics if you have never been involved with the sex industry before otherwise you would know first hand what mismonker is referring to.

Sadly prostitution is not to blame for the beginning of any person to use illegal drugs, mostly I am referring to heroin. In most cases you will find that females that do have a drug addiction already then decide to turn to prostitution to support their habit as its easy quick money and from using heroin they are easily able to block out any emotions. Most males that have a heroin addiction turn to crime to make their quick money. That is a well known fact & any working girl will agree. The sad part is yes it does keep them in the industry longer whilst they are still using drugs to get the quick cash.

Who is to say that underage girls don’t produce fake identification to commence working at brothels? Also tax forms are completed when one starts working at brothels and you will find that most of the forms completed will be false declarations.

I totally agree if Exotic studios have breached the conditions of their license, they should be closed down. This place has been known for years to be one of the worse brothels in the ACT.

I agree with prostitution being legal in the ACT – Quite simply because it stops the spread of STD’s and when you think about it how many people go out night clubbing heavily intoxicated and go home with a stranger not using any form of protection? Which results in the spreading of more diseases and unwanted pregnancies. No-one tends to point the finger at that way of spreading diseases. Sex workers are well educated on protecting themselves from STD’s and other health risks. All brothels that are above board must have each sex worker provide a health report showing that they are clean & if not then the owner of any brothel is responsible for allowing a working girl to continue working if this medical information is not provided.

No-one forces anyone into prostitution. It is a decision made by the person who chooses that profession. As I mentioned above if one already has a habit yes they will turn to prostitution to afford their habit. But you will find too alot of working girls do not use drugs & brothel owners. Don’t judge all brothels if there are bad ones out there. Yes I agree that there are some evil brothel owners and one has been mentioned above already the owner M*****.

I know of many working ladies that have professional careers outside of this industry, including nurses, uni students and ladies many other professions.

Lets not forget that at times too there are lonely people out there that visit brothels who’s partners have passed away, are unable to receive sex from anyone and also lonely people who just want to chat to a female for company. So there are good and bad points to the prostitution industry.

I know first hand from one of the workers this information and I would much prefer to see a person going to a brothel to pay for sex than committing the crime of rape on an innocent person. Why don’t people point the finger at strippers who are men teasers as no doubt females have been raped after one has been in a strip show.

As what was once said to me by a working girl ” I work and pay my own bills and don’t put my hand out asking for money from anyone else “.

Ant, As for your recent comment on the Downer murders if you did your homework you would know that the deceased female did not have a brothel for many years, how you connect the prostitution industry with the downer murders is degrading and shitting on a deceased person who clearly is not here to defend herself. If you didn’t know her whilst she was alive then you have no comment or right to speculate about the murder relating to prostitution. As noted most people who have written about the deceased female knew her well and she wasn’t an evil person.

Sepi said:

sepi said :

I always regret commenting on these topics.

Yeah, I can see why!

“go sell your butt and get back to us.”

Ouch!

I always regret commenting on these topics.

I had a friend who used brothels all the time as he figured it was cheaper than taking a girl out on a date and hoping to get some. He said they said he was good in the sack and had a monster member. After he got it out in any photo he could on a road trip it was concluded that sex workers tell a few fibs now and then. Can you trust anything they say? Sepi you will need to go and get some real experience – reading obviously doesn’t cut it – go sell your butt and get back to us.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy6:03 pm 02 Nov 08

MissMoniker, are you saying that sepi is wrong? I couldn’t see sepi claiming to be an expert anywhere, so I am assuming you have other info to offer?

OMG Sepi you are seriously deluded if you consider yourself an authority on the sex industry after reading something!

Sepi The largest proportion of women doing sex work, do it for the cash. Who they are is as varied as the clientele.

Madocci I don’t think that’s on their mind when they see a prostitute.

Drugs are in a lot of industries. What I think you may be asking is how common are drugs used by owners to recruit and retain sex worker’s. This is the exploitation part. Its not hard to find out which brothels do this. It’s certainly not all, so I wouldn’t say it goes hand in hand. I think its wrong to think sex for cash is exploitation.

Not all workers are on drugs. Not all brothel owners use drugs as a control. In this case both are true.

There is research showing a large proportion of prostitutes have addiction issues, and/or were abused as children. It isn’t just my own opinion.

Another group is struggling young single mothers – like the other woman quoted in the article.

The only group the article doesn’t cover is the growing number of students who get into the industry due to living below the poverty line.

So the article was illustrative of reading i did years ago on this industry.

Dexi, when you say “A sad story yes, but it does nothing to illustrate the industry.” Can you explain what this statement is based upon? I am interested in finding out how commonly drugs and prostitution go hand in hand.

From my personal experience I can understand how this woman’s family feels. If more of the men who use the services had an exploited mother, sister or daughter in the industry they might think twice about using the services.

Sepi, “A very sad story – and fairly illustrative of the prostitution industry.”

A sad story yes, but it does nothing to illustrate the industry. If it illustrates anything then it’s how Exotics (and T Of C) is managed and operated. It’s how drugs can affect families. It’s how drugs can kill you. But most of all it illustrates how when it comes down to the most vulnerable of our society, we can turn a blind eye to their exploitation. That particular owner uses heroin to control his workers. Its not a secret. It’s well and truly time that M**** is removed from the industry and drummed out of town.

Indeed Tezza – Fiona Patten is a former sex worker and Robbie Swan owed several businesses in the sex industry in Canberra. Whether he technically owned brothels (as opposed to manufacturing pornography) is neither here nor there – anyone who knows anything about the industry knows that the women filmed in porn flicks pretty much have to be off their faces to face doing it.

The Eros Association IS the former Eros Foundation. Same folk. They changed the name because they were NOT a foundation – with the charitable connotations therein. They have commented in the press over the years on this exact same issue, including since the name change. The Scarlet Alliance are welcome to comment too, but it’s an Eros Alliance/Foundation Patten/Swan comment that would be of more interest.

Woody Mann-Caruso2:50 pm 02 Nov 08

lol @ tezza. You say that the Minister is generalising because he refuses to generalise from this one case. You, on the other hand, would never generalise, but you’ll assume “most of us” think as you do because, well, you do. And congrats on earning your three-post nutbag merit badge on your very first thread.

The article states no brothel had been inspected in the last year.

The ACT govt thinks they are progressive by licensing brothels and legalising prostitution.

A very sad story – and fairly illustrative of the prostitution industry.

Tezza said :

“The licensing of brothels is nothing more than a registration. They pay the money, they get the licence. To say that it is a regulated industry is false in nearly every aspect.”

If that is the case why doesn’t the ACT government -who love to introduce symbolic laws to show how ‘progressive’ they are- do something positive and more strictly regulate the sex industry. How about a minimum age of 21 for sex workers?

At least then some good would come as a result of this girl’s death.

.

The licensing of brothels is nothing more than a registration. They pay the money, they get the licence. To say that it is a regulated industry is false in nearly every aspect.

Anyone of us with children who reads the CT article must shudder and think: ‘there but for the grace of god go I’.

One area of our children’s life we have little control over is who their friends are. How many times do we hear of basically good kids who go off the rails when they get mixed up with some sleaze-bag older ‘man’. As parents there is only so much you can do. In the end it’s a bit of a lottery.

The girl was underage for a sex worker, therefore I assume the brothel has broken the law by employing her.

If they have breached the conditions of their license, why should the ‘Exotic Studio’ not be closed down?

.

I thought yesterday’s article in the CT was very sad. Janine’s family have my sympathies.

As they state, she was under the control of an older guy – so it’s hard not to agree with you on this PB.

Having the regulators visit brothels might be a good thing, but I wonder if it would achieve anything. these inspections are usually flagged in advance.

The link between crime and prostitution is well-documented. Even our legal industry seems to have links with the crime world… see the recent Downer murders for more of that.

The Eros Foundation has a long history of supporting brothels in Canberra.

Pommy bastard10:07 am 02 Nov 08

How unbelievably sad.

Yet if the family had taken physical action against the thirty year old POS who had this girl under his influence, they would have been prosecuted.

I’d have run him down in my car.

Jonathon Reynolds9:59 am 02 Nov 08

I-filed said :

Is the Eros Foundation available for comment?

Get your organisations right…

The Eros Association is Australia’s national adult retail and entertainment association.

Perhaps a comment would be more appropriate for comment from the Scarlet Alliance which is the Australian Sex Workers Association. http://www.scarletalliance.org.au/

Parliament House felt the need to put sharps bins into the toilets of the secure area a few years ago

Sharps bins are for diabetics as well y’known.

I have to do my blood sugar 2to 3 times a day – so where do I put the contaminated strips or lances?

Luckily I am not an injecting insulin (Type 1) diabetic, but I would suggest these sharps bins are for them as well….

Is the Eros Foundation available for comment? They’ve insisted for years (bizarrely) that there’s no link between prostitution and drug use …

Drugs get into prisons and Parliament House felt the need to put sharps bins into the toilets of the secure area a few years ago.

I’m not sure regulated environments equate to drug free.

A 17 year old (under the allowable age for a sexworker) is found dead from an overdoes of illegal drugs (the taking of which is specifically banned in brothels) and the Minister states that generally there is not a significant level of crime in the brothel industry.

Why doesn’t he ask the Commissioner of Fair Trading when was the last time his officers inspected the brothels in any manner whatsoever?

I think most of us would be surprised if they had ever been inspected.

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