RiotACT

Welcome to The RiotACT

Register Post Story How To Post

The RiotACT is an online forum for news and views in the Canberra and ACT Region.
It's an open and interactive ACT online soapbox - a Riot.
History will be kind to us - Because we will write it.

Law & Justice

Commuter Cycling on Adelaide Avenue

Riding along the Adelaide Avenue cycle lane towards Woden this morning I was pelted by an apple from a passing motorist.  This has left a considerable bruise on my arm as well as shaken me up quite a bit.

As someone new to Canberra and commuting via bike I was just keen to get some thoughts on whether motorist aggression towards cyclists is a common occurance or hopefully just a case of one bad apple…

1 vote, average: 3.00 out of 51 vote, average: 3.00 out of 51 vote, average: 3.00 out of 51 vote, average: 3.00 out of 51 vote, average: 3.00 out of 5

Discussion

79 comments for “Commuter Cycling on Adelaide Avenue”

  1. #1
    basketcase (Troublemaker) 18:51, 14 Dec 09

    Been pelted a couple of times, mainly yobos. That’s over a few years so I wouldn’t describe it as normal, especially on Adelaide Ave. If you have your wits about you you could collect a number plate and complain to the police, not that I think they would do anything about it.

    Bit like motorcyclists on the footpaths, you just got to live with.

  2. #2
    54-11 (Picketer) 18:56, 14 Dec 09

    No, driver aggression toward cyclists is not common. However, I can tell you that aggression the other way round is much more common. I was abused by an idiotic cyclist on the Woden roundabout – he thought he was a car and moved into the roundabout just as I was coming around the corner. I had to get out of this dickhead’s way, and he then started to abuse me.

    Stupid, ignorant, aggressive cyclists should stay off major highways, specially if they are going to think that they are cars. They’re not – they’re just dickheads.

  3. #3
    Deckard (Picketer) 19:32, 14 Dec 09

    I think you’ve touched 54-11’s nerve.

    Have never had anything thrown at me, just a bit of verbal abuse every now and then. It was lucky you didn’t get hit in the face. Could have done some real damage.

  4. #4
    phototext (Anarchist) 20:23, 14 Dec 09

    “No, driver aggression toward cyclists is not common.”

    Ha !

  5. #5
    queeg (Newbie) 20:25, 14 Dec 09

    It must be silly season. Had someone think it would be funny to yell out his car window at me on the way home tonight for no apparent reason (seriously – no reason at all!!). While driving home Thursday night last week (yes DRIVING), I had no fewer than five near misses from other cars. It’s got nothing to do with you being a cyclist.
    Re 54-11’s comment – you do know that bicycles are vehicles don’t you? Maybe you have just exposed yourself as one of many car drivers in Canberra who don’t actually know the road rules.

  6. #6
    OYM (Hooligan) 21:09, 14 Dec 09

    Standby in 5,4,3,2…1 for the same old cyclist/motorist debate.

  7. #7
    shiny flu (Picketer) 21:12, 14 Dec 09

    It’s not Canberra, it’s not you… it happens in a lot of cities around the world.

    I’ve had half full plastic bottles thrown at me because I ‘forced’ a car to slow down as I was going across an Exit on the green striped bike lane. It really is just a few bogans with nothing better to do than try and kill you.

    The best thing to do is find alternative routes if possible. Sure the road surface is nice and smooth but I prefer taking an extra 5 min along the back way with less traffic.

  8. #8
    Snarky (Anarchist) 21:28, 14 Dec 09

    I’m fairly regular on Adelaide Ave, never had an issue. Occasionally I cop a bit of abuse but for reasons I can’t figure out it always seems to be on Canberra Ave in Manuka. A kid threw an apple at me once in Weston Creek 4-5 years ago.

  9. #9
    Sgt.Bungers (Anarchist) 21:32, 14 Dec 09

    That time of year I guess. On the 312 this morning heading north into Woden. On Athlon drive, crossing Hindmarsh, the bus caught up to a person on a bike half way through the intersection. The “professional” bus driver, rather than choose to maintain a safe distance from the person on the bike (who was legally using the road), chose to drive at a distance that I as a passenger found *extremely* uncomfortable. Obviously at some point in this bus drivers life, he decided that endangering the life of another human being using a several tonne machine, as a result of being held up for 5 seconds, was a reasonable thing to do?

    Even better… the incident started up the young girls behind me, who, judging from their ages, had just earned their drivers licences. They started talking about how they *HATE* cyclists, the passion in their voices was eery. Carrying on about how cyclists are so inconsiderate and selfish, expecting everyone to wait for them… how they always beep the horn at cyclists if they get in their way whilst trying to turn. (Expecting the roads to be free of everything but motor vehicle traffic at all times is not selfish, apparently.) The best quote “the road is only for cars, get the f*** off”. Obviously during their driver training these girls were never told that the road is not just for motor vehicle traffic, and everyone is expected to get along and play nice… like adults.

    This arvo, waiting for the bus to go home, I witnessed an old coot in a Honda Jazz fail to give way to a cyclist at a pedestrain crossing. Granted, the cyclist is required to dismount and didn’t, however she was riding no faster than walking pace. Not only did this person fail to give way, he stopped on the crossing, wound down his window and began having a go at the cyclist he came close to injuring. When the cyclist attempted to get around the hazard the old fart caused, he again deliberately moved forward into her path. Unfortunately I was a fair way away, or I would’ve had a few choice words.

    Cyclist crime: Failing to dismount at a pedestrain crossing. ~$50 fine.

    Bus driver and Jazz drivers crimes: Driving a motor vehicle with intent to menace another person, up to one year in prison.

  10. #10
    jasmine (Hooligan) 22:18, 14 Dec 09

    It may not have been deliberate. An quick toss of an apple out the window by some compost loving motorist perhaps.

    There is a big cyclist vs motorist debate in the ACT. Personally we have gone a bit mad in Canberra with the cycling lanes on major roads some with horrendously dangerous parts such as that on Streeton Drive with the turnoff into Namatjira, as well as a treacherous points on Adelaide Avenue with merging traffic and the turnoff area into Kings Ave from State Circle etc.

    A lot of the cycle lanes are wasted money when there are perfectly good cycle paths built at some cost a few years ago right next to the road cycle lanes eg. Hindmarsh Drive, State Circle.

    The cyclists tend to be a bit tetchy about perceived aggression and the motorists a bit defensive in return.

  11. #11
    Ceej1973 (Anarchist) 22:58, 14 Dec 09

    Pity you didnt get rego and the apple for DNA!

  12. #12
    Punter (Anarchist) 00:00, 15 Dec 09

    I hope you took some information from the vehicle in question (rego plate etc), and further I hope you reported the matter to Police. If you were riding in the cycle lane, you are obligated to ride there by law, no driver should have a problem with that.

    Sgt Bungers, sure a cyclist has the ‘right’ to be on a road at that point, but they are mixing with vehicular traffic which, as you acknowledge, can be as heavy as several tonnes. I personally would not choose to mix myself in such a hazardous circumstance as that. I prefer to be alive and healthy than right. How’s the comment from shiny flu #7? ‘Don’t worry, they’re only trying to kill you’ That is spot on, no cyclist will come off a winner in that arguement, why put yourself in that situation? You’ll also find menacing driving requires a threat of pesonal injury or damage to property, not by simply blocking a crossing and having a go. The sooner cycle lanes are seperated from vehicular traffic by more than just a painted line the safer for both. Be safe folks.

  13. #13
    cleo (Picketer) 00:06, 15 Dec 09

    Honestly I have stopped for so many cyclists while they rode their bikes across a pedestrain crossing, and some were going fast, now who would be to blame if the motorist ran into the cyclist?

  14. #14
    Piratemonkey (Rioter) 00:13, 15 Dec 09

    When it comes to give way signs, stop signs and red lights cars obey them because if they don’t eventually one poor timed mistake will kill somebody.

    I often see cyclists ignoring these golden rules cars have to obey, simply because they are on the very edge of the road and it looks fairly safe. It is my opinion this behaviour is one of the main reasons normally sane non road-raging people have such animosity against cyclists. So please for christs sake stop it.

    As for people riding across a padestrian crossing…. Its called a padestrian crossing for a reason for crying out loud. If you are walking, cars give way to you. If you are on a vehicle (ie bike as has been pointed out) you have to give way to traffic. Period. As far as I am concerned you know you have to give way and will. Call me an asshole but I will not stop even if you are going at a snails pace. Thems tha rules people.

  15. #15
    Gungahlin Al (Veteran Rioter) 06:29, 15 Dec 09

    Not sure people realise how much the speed differential means such casual things can hurt or even lead to a serious accident. I was hit by a simple strawberry thrown from a car once (yes just a strawberry!) and it hurt like hell. An apple could have taken right off your bike. Very lucky to stay upright. they wouldn’t want to get pulled up at the next set of lights…

  16. #16
    captainwhorebags (Picketer) 07:21, 15 Dec 09

    I’ve been yelled at, had bottles thrown and even taken incoming spud gun fire. All as a pedestrian out for my evening walk.

    Bogans are bogans and will target just about anyone. I think that cyclists spend more time in a close proximity to the road and so are targeted more often.

  17. #17
    pptvb (Picketer) 08:54, 15 Dec 09

    Piratemonkey said :

    When it comes to give way signs, stop signs and red lights cars obey them because if they don’t eventually one poor timed mistake will kill somebody.

    I often see cyclists ignoring these golden rules cars have to obey, simply because they are on the very edge of the road and it looks fairly safe. It is my opinion this behaviour is one of the main reasons normally sane non road-raging people have such animosity against cyclists. So please for christs sake stop it.

    As for people riding across a padestrian crossing…. Its called a padestrian crossing for a reason for crying out loud. If you are walking, cars give way to you. If you are on a vehicle (ie bike as has been pointed out) you have to give way to traffic. Period. As far as I am concerned you know you have to give way and will. Call me an asshole but I will not stop even if you are going at a snails pace. Thems tha rules people.

    DITTO

  18. #18
    Jim Jones (Veteran Rioter) 09:19, 15 Dec 09

    54-11 said :

    I almost ran over a cyclist and he had the temerity to get angry at me for it.

    Oh you poor thing. How did you cope?

  19. #19
    Thoroughly Smashed (Picketer) 09:24, 15 Dec 09

    queeg said :

    Re 54-11’s comment – you do know that bicycles are vehicles don’t you? Maybe you have just exposed yourself as one of many car drivers in Canberra who don’t actually know the road rules.

    I got the impression that the cyclist failed to give way.

  20. #20
    nutter (Troublemaker) 10:13, 15 Dec 09

    Plenty of drivers think that messing with cyclists is funny. Of particular hilarity are they (typically young men) who like to honk/yell abuse just as they’re passing you. That said, the cycle paths in this town are pretty good and for the couple of extra minutes it’ll take, getting away from a) the exhaust fumes and b) the idiots who think they own the roads is definitely worth it. They’re usually far more scenic than the road anyway.

    There are plenty of folks (on two wheels and four) who don’t know the road rules. In short, if you’re on the road you’re treated and should act like a car, if you’re on the footpath you’re treated and should act like a pedestrian.

    A little tip – when you get to a pedestrian crossing, make eye contact with the driver, 95% of them are courteous and will wave you through, perhaps reasoning that the tiny delay caused by them shifting their foot from one pedal to the other is of lesser magnitude than stopping your momentum. Of course there’s around 3% who will exercise their right of way and around 2% who will make eye contact and then accelerate through the crossing (my personal bugbear are the ones who do this on traffic light corners and end up stopped on the crossing).

    Oh and Piratemonkey, it’s actually called a pedestrian crossing and your attitude is cr@p. I assume you look forward to the day you get to mow down a cyclist because they were riding over a crossing? I’ll call you an @rsehole as I live in Australia and because you clearly are one.

  21. #21
    trix (Rioter) 10:15, 15 Dec 09

    Regarding the remark that it happens “anywhere”, not as much as it does in Canberra. I’ve cycled in London, France and various places in NZ, and the only place I’ve ever gotten abuse was when I was cycling in the bike lane on Commonwealth Bridge.

    I don’t know of any cyclist in Canberra who hasn’t had an “incident” – andhow many drivers have been abused by cyclists? No-one that I know of (including myself). So, no, there is a special breed of moron here.

  22. #22
    Jim Jones (Veteran Rioter) 11:06, 15 Dec 09

    Thoroughly Smashed said :

    queeg said :

    Re 54-11’s comment – you do know that bicycles are vehicles don’t you? Maybe you have just exposed yourself as one of many car drivers in Canberra who don’t actually know the road rules.

    I got the impression that the cyclist failed to give way.

    A cyclist was criticised because he “thought he was a car”. As nutter astutely point out: “if you’re on the road you’re treated and should act like a car, if you’re on the footpath you’re treated and should act like a pedestrian.”

  23. #23
    dvaey (Rabble Rouser) 11:07, 15 Dec 09

    basketcase said :

    If you have your wits about you you could collect a number plate and complain to the police

    This is basically exactly why motorists are required to have identification plates on the outside of their vehicle. If the driver commits an offence, you can report it to the police. Chances are, a vehicle that is going to do these sorts of things is already known to police and could well have other complaints against it.

    shiny flu said :

    I’ve had half full plastic bottles thrown at me because I ‘forced’ a car to slow down as I was going across an Exit on the green striped bike lane.

    With that thinking, when driving, do you also ‘force’ a train to slow down when crossing its path too? Or do you realise small-gives-way-to-big, and dont try to force the train to slow down, just because youre on your ashphelt road?

    Piratemonkey said :

    As for people riding across a padestrian crossing…. Its called a padestrian crossing for a reason for crying out loud. If you are walking, cars give way to you. If you are on a vehicle (ie bike as has been pointed out) you have to give way to traffic.

    Or to put it another way, if a govt ride-on lawn mower attempts to cross the road at a crossing, they give way, even though theyre travelling at 5km/hr and are travelling across a crossing. Both the bike and the mower are vehicles, both at the same crossing, so why would the bike be treated any differently, other than because he’ll whinge on RA, where the mower-rider understands the laws of give way (presumably as to ride a mower, he’s required to have a licence, which he can lose if he breaks the law)

  24. #24
    Jim Jones (Veteran Rioter) 11:08, 15 Dec 09

    “Call me an asshole but I will not stop even if you are going at a snails pace. Thems tha rules people.”

    Someone who only cares about the letter of the law, not the spirit, and clearly has no empathy or concern for the people who are around him.

    Yep, I’d say that qualifies you as a grade-A asshole.

  25. #25
    spinact (Anarchist) 11:17, 15 Dec 09

    pptvb said :

    Piratemonkey said :

    When it comes to give way signs, stop signs and red lights cars obey them because if they don’t eventually one poor timed mistake will kill somebody.

    I often see cyclists ignoring these golden rules cars have to obey, simply because they are on the very edge of the road and it looks fairly safe. It is my opinion this behaviour is one of the main reasons normally sane non road-raging people have such animosity against cyclists. So please for christs sake stop it.

    As for people riding across a padestrian crossing…. Its called a padestrian crossing for a reason for crying out loud. If you are walking, cars give way to you. If you are on a vehicle (ie bike as has been pointed out) you have to give way to traffic. Period. As far as I am concerned you know you have to give way and will. Call me an asshole but I will not stop even if you are going at a snails pace. Thems tha rules people.

    DITTO

    DITTO the DITTO

    I have no problem with cyclists on the roads but they should obey the road rules. Then all we’d need is for everyone else to obey the road rules…………

  26. #26
    icantbelieveitsnotbutter (Rioter) 11:24, 15 Dec 09

    You’re lucky it wasn’t a banana, apparently they kill now…

  27. #27
    spinact (Anarchist) 11:30, 15 Dec 09

    although I should clarify I don’t ditto the running someone down just because you’re not obliged by the rules to give way!

  28. #28
    ABC129 (Hooligan) 11:51, 15 Dec 09

    I’m simply amazed that people don’t understand the fact that nobody wins from these ‘altercations’ between cars and cyclists. The whole idea of teaching cyclists a lesson is ridiculous. At the very least you’ll end up with one or all of the following: A scratched or dented car, a busted bike, a bruised/broken cyclist and even more animosity between cyclists and car drivers – NOBODY WINS!!

    Fact: People make mistakes on the roads, be they driving, cycling, walking, motorbike riding.

    Should we instantly start to enact revenge on people that make mistakes by ‘teaching them a lesson’? As in 54-11’s case, perhaps it was the first time the cyclist had ridden home and thought that was a good way to go? Perhaps they got half way into that roundabout and got totally freaked out. Perhaps they will go via the path next time and never bother another motorist on that piece of road ever again?

    ALL road users do silly things. If we see some old biddy reverse out of a driveway without looking your way should you beep the horn, throw up some fingers and hurl abuse? Or should we slow down, let them come out, give a friendly wave when they realise they didn’t see you and know that they’ll have another look next time.

    The sooner we all take a chill pill, give ALL road users the benefit of the doubt and realise that nobody wins from ANY altercation on the road the happier we’ll all be.

    PS: as a cyclist (AND motorist) I haven’t had any problems on Adelaide Ave before. Perhaps it comes from giving a wave to motorists who let me in or do something courteous. It’s friendly and just common sense.

  29. #29
    jared (Newbie) 12:27, 15 Dec 09

    Watch out for Taxis, buses, the red plated ACT government cars, P platers…. Maybe just watch out for everything. Taxi/bus drivers are in a hurry by definition and if they think they can avoid having to wait an extra second or two they will…regardless of whether they are breaking road rules or you happen to be in the way or both. Make sure your brakes are tip top! I regularly ride down london circuit and buses are loathe to STOP as they leave the interchange. I.e., they either just go and cut you off or they creep forward and you’ve got no idea what they might do. Be particularly wary when you ride past bus stops. I have buses regularly cut me off to pull into bus stops to the point where i had to jump the gutter to avoid getting hit on corner of london circuit and akuna. On northbourne they sit 2 ft behind you pumping their brakes to give you a handy hint (if you get a chance, stop after the bus stop and take down the route number and number plate of the bus and report to ACTION – there is no excuse for intimidating cyclists by sitting that close not to mention how dangerous it is). P platers just won’t give way. And if you happen to be riding in Ainslie, beware the weird tall dude in the yellow lada…I ‘forced’ him to give way at the end of Tyson st a few months back, he stalled his car in the middle of the intersection and then proceeded to verbally assail me with cries of ‘Jew, Jew’, ‘go back to israel’ and assorted mad witch like cackles as he bunny hopped his car around the corner. Sad but true.

  30. #30
    Postalgeek (Picketer) 12:56, 15 Dec 09

    Piratemonkey said :

    When it comes to give way signs, stop signs and red lights cars obey them because if they don’t eventually one poor timed mistake will kill somebody.

    I often see cyclists ignoring these golden rules cars have to obey, simply because they are on the very edge of the road and it looks fairly safe. It is my opinion this behaviour is one of the main reasons normally sane non road-raging people have such animosity against cyclists. So please for christs sake stop it.

    As for people riding across a padestrian crossing…. Its called a padestrian crossing for a reason for crying out loud. If you are walking, cars give way to you. If you are on a vehicle (ie bike as has been pointed out) you have to give way to traffic. Period. As far as I am concerned you know you have to give way and will. Call me an asshole but I will not stop even if you are going at a snails pace. Thems tha rules people.

    Because we all know that cars obey the rules all the time. Just ask the cops and the insurance companies. I’m trying to be polite, but fking hell that is a knob statement to make.

    And I’m sure the cops would agree with your position if you decide to knock down a kid on a bike at a pedestrian crossing.

  31. #31
    Holden Caulfield (Agitator) 13:48, 15 Dec 09

    trix said :

    I don’t know of any cyclist in Canberra who hasn’t had an “incident” – andhow many drivers have been abused by cyclists? No-one that I know of (including myself). So, no, there is a special breed of moron here.

    I’ve been slagged off by cyclists a couple of times. Once a few years back for asking, yes asking, not yelling or abusing, why he didn’t use the cycle path that was less than two metres away. He went off his rocker, haha. Clearly I touched a nerve there, but I genuinely wanted to know why…

    The other time was just a few weeks ago when a cyclist was just parked in the middle of London Circuit near Canberra Theatre. It looked like he may have been talking to some pedestrians crossing the road, but they had clearly passed by now. He was in the right lane and not moving. I gave him a gentle beep to say move along, which I think was fair enough under the circumstances (ie. blocking traffic for no apparent reason) and again, clearly I touched a nerve, because a torrent of abuse came flowing my way.

    Oh, and the one time I hit a cyclist (fortunately at a very low speed and he wasn’t hurt) was because he turned across me at a T-intersection without making any hand signals (he was turning right). It’s a bit hard to explain these things online, and I’m certainly not absolving myself of all blame, but I had previously seen this guy on the left hand side of the lane seemingly moving straight on at a distance at which it seemed clear to me he would not be turning right, otherwise he would have indicated and been towards the middle of the road. I checked my to my right again, which was clear, and slowly moved off. Obviously I should have double checked the cyclist again, who was now on my bonnet, but as I said, it was a definite case of shared responsibility. Which is probably why he was so reluctant to accept my business card when I offered it to him in case of any sustained damage to himself or his bike. It was only on reflection of the incident that I pieced together his likely movements.

    In regards to cyclists riding across pedestrian crossings, a clear example of cyclists wanting it both ways.

    In general, though, I don’t mind cyclists doing this and try to make eye contact with the cyclist to establish an understanding of who is going to do what. The trouble is, of course, some cyclists wait, others go straight across without even acknowledging the oncoming motorist traffic.

    Riding through red lights is an example of dickheads not discriminating on mode of transport. I know cyclists probably get the raw end of the deal the majority of the time from inattentive motorists, and I’m happy to cut cyclists some slack because of this, but riding through red lights is asking for trouble, haha.

  32. #32
    caf (Agitator) 14:12, 15 Dec 09

    ABC129: Well said, well said indeed.

  33. #33
    Grrrr (Anarchist) 14:13, 15 Dec 09

    54-11 said :

    No, driver aggression toward cyclists is not common.

    Wroooooong. Just last night I was in the left hand lane of a 2-lane road at some traffic lights. Car comes up behind me – in the same lane, toots it’s horn and then I get shouted at as they go around me. No good reason for it – just bogans being bogans. They’re wankers who feeli tough cause they’ve got a steel cage around them and a faster top speed than a cyclist.

    54-11 said :

    I was abused by an idiotic cyclist on the Woden roundabout – he thought he was a car and moved into the roundabout just as I was coming around the corner. I had to get out of this dickhead’s way, and he then started to abuse me.

    So, if he had been a car, would you have conceded he had right of way? If so, it’s time to brush up on your road rules.

    The OP here has been assaulted for no good reason, and it’s all too common.

  34. #34
    Holden Caulfield (Agitator) 14:15, 15 Dec 09

    Oops, I forgot about another cyclist giving me abuse. This time I was at a cross intersection turning left. Adjacent and parallel to the road I was turning from was a cycle path which also crossed the road I was turning onto.

    Anyway, I’m turning left and across the road on the cycle path I could see a cyclist approaching, although at this stage a reasonable distance away. So, I look to my right and the road is clear and I start to turn. Meanwhile the cyclist on the cycle path decided I was invisible and began crossing the road.

    I continued to exercise my right of way (as there was no immediate danger of collision) and got a bunch of abuse for doing so. Apparently, I must have held up the cyclist for some of those precious seconds they bemoan to car users about. Or worse, maybe I upset his momentum, which is another reason I’ve been given by a couple of cyclists to explain why they don’t stop at traffic lights.

    These incidents over the years happened between civic and O’Connor. It seems clear that there are enough examples of cyclists who need to live and let live, just as there are countless examples of motorists who need to do likewise.

    On that basis +1 to ABC129 at post #28.

  35. #35
    Danman (Agitator) 14:16, 15 Dec 09

    2200km entirely on bike pathes this year.

    The above comments are reason enough for me to justify that.

    ALYM – Canberra boasts a vast fraternity of bike hating motorists, ride safe mate.

  36. #36
    Very Busy (Anarchist) 14:20, 15 Dec 09

    Sgt.Bungers said :

    On the 312 this morning heading north into Woden. On Athlon drive, crossing Hindmarsh, the bus caught up to a person on a bike half way through the intersection. The “professional” bus driver, rather than choose to maintain a safe distance from the person on the bike (who was legally using the road), chose to drive at a distance that I as a passenger found *extremely* uncomfortable.

    I would be very interested to know how this cyclist got to be in this intersection in the first place. The far left lane of this intersection is a “Bus Only” lane. It is wide enough only for a bus and is surrounded by unbroken white lines. Did the cyclist illegaly ride through that lane when entering the intersection. It is very very highly likely that he/she did which is simply the act of a complete idiot. Choosing to endanger his/her own life by illegally riding in the bus only lane when there is a wide, high quality cycleway along that stretch of road is just asking for trouble. Those dedicated bus lanes at traffic lights are there to help our public transport system maintain correct timing. The bus driver did the wrong thing, but the cyclist was probably more to blame and deserves to get the scare of his/her life. This is just what happens when cyclists get out and play with the traffic.

    It is a great shame about the apple throwing incident but I can’t help but think that this is the result of an absolute minority of idiots on bikes who continually display illegal and inconsiderate behaviour giving the vast majority of cyclists a bad name.

    BTW, I cycle to work every day. I am a cyclist who allows plenty of time for the trip and doesn’t set myself a goal of getting there as quick as a car at all cost.

  37. #37
    Helen (Hooligan) 14:54, 15 Dec 09

    trix said :

    …andhow many drivers have been abused by cyclists? No-one that I know of (including myself)…

    A colleague of mine had her car break down on a busy road in Canberra in peak hour not too long ago (can’t remember which road). She managed to pull over out of the main stream of traffic and into the cycle lane before it completely died, but had no hope of getting it up the curb. While waiting for the NRMA to turn up with her hazard lights on, several cyclists yelled abuse at her as they rode past, one slowing down and hitting her window with the flat of his hand, another slamming his fist down on top of her wing mirror. What was she meant to do, get out of the vehicle into peak hour traffic and attempt to push her car up a straight edge curb?

    Neither side is innocent in this debate, it’s ridiculous to try to paint it so.

    Personally, I get irritated at cyclists who ride on roads without cycle lanes – particularly when there’s a cycle path right next to the road (I’ve seen this many times on Ginninderra Drive) or on narrow, windy roads without the room for cars to safely pass (e.g. Kuringa Drive). However, as angry as I get, I will not do something to endanger a cyclist’s life. Even if they’re in the wrong. An incident between a car and a cyclist will always result in the cyclist coming off second best – and I could not have that on my conscience.

  38. #38
    Jim Jones (Veteran Rioter) 15:08, 15 Dec 09

    dvaey said :

    shiny flu said :

    I’ve had half full plastic bottles thrown at me because I ‘forced’ a car to slow down as I was going across an Exit on the green striped bike lane.

    With that thinking, when driving, do you also ‘force’ a train to slow down when crossing its path too? Or do you realise small-gives-way-to-big, and dont try to force the train to slow down, just because youre on your ashphelt road?

    So you’re saying that cyclists aren’t allowed to use the green bicycle lanes the way that the law stipulates because “cars are bigger than you, like trains”?

    You do realise that cars have little pedals in them, which gives the operator the ability to easily slow down and give way to bicycles legally using green cycle lanes? Unlike trains, which take long periods to decelerate and are on fixed tracks?

    Your entire argument boils down to “cars shouldn’t have to give way to cyclists, because they’re bigger”. It’s the most retarded post you’ve ever made (which is a big ask given the whole ‘bicycles should be registered’ obsession).

  39. #39
    Holden Caulfield (Agitator) 15:27, 15 Dec 09

    Grrrr said :

    54-11 said :

    I was abused by an idiotic cyclist on the Woden roundabout – he thought he was a car and moved into the roundabout just as I was coming around the corner. I had to get out of this dickhead’s way, and he then started to abuse me.

    So, if he had been a car, would you have conceded he had right of way? If so, it’s time to brush up on your road rules…

    Well, that depends. Clearly we’re not piecing together 54-11’s full picture. However, when I first read the comment I interpreted it as 54-11 was already on the roundabout and the cyclist, turning left, moved out in front of 54-11 who was, presumably in the left lane of the roundabout going straight ahead.

    If my interpretation is correct, I look forward to you finding a road rule that says any vehicle has right of way at roundabouts ahead of vehicles already on said roundabout and approaching from the right.

  40. #40
    Sgt.Bungers (Anarchist) 15:43, 15 Dec 09

    Very Busy said :

    Sgt.Bungers said :

    On the 312 this morning heading north into Woden. On Athlon drive, crossing Hindmarsh, the bus caught up to a person on a bike half way through the intersection. The “professional” bus driver, rather than choose to maintain a safe distance from the person on the bike (who was legally using the road), chose to drive at a distance that I as a passenger found *extremely* uncomfortable.

    I would be very interested to know how this cyclist got to be in this intersection in the first place. The far left lane of this intersection is a “Bus Only” lane. It is wide enough only for a bus and is surrounded by unbroken white lines. Did the cyclist illegaly ride through that lane when entering the intersection. It is very very highly likely that he/she did which is simply the act of a complete idiot. Choosing to endanger his/her own life by illegally riding in the bus only lane when there is a wide, high quality cycleway along that stretch of road is just asking for trouble. Those dedicated bus lanes at traffic lights are there to help our public transport system maintain correct timing. The bus driver did the wrong thing, but the cyclist was probably more to blame and deserves to get the scare of his/her life. This is just what happens when cyclists get out and play with the traffic.

    True, I’m not clear on the road rules regarding cyclists using bus lanes. That said, if it is illegal, the fine for doing so would be a few hundred dollars at best… and in doing so he held up a bus full of people for no more than 5 seconds, or possibly no time at all given traffic light timings. How can the bus driver justify deliberately trying to intimidate a human being, by endangering his life with a several tonne machine? It is up to the police to write tickets for people who break the law. At what point did it become reasonable to deliberately intimidate a person in a manner where if the *slightest* thing went wrong, they could be killed?

    In this case, possible cyclist crime: Illegal use of a bus lane… ~$300?
    Bus driver crime: Drive a motor vehicle with intent to menace another person… arrest, up to 1 year in prison (as per ACT legislation) and criminal record.

    Fortunately when it comes to using several tonnes of steel to intimidate a human being for whatever reason, the law allows a reasonable punishment. Unfortunately, far too many people in society see nothing wrong with this practice, so long as it’s just to “teach someone a lesson”

  41. #41
    southeeplace (Troublemaker) 15:47, 15 Dec 09

    I would be very interested to know how this cyclist got to be in this intersection in the first place. The far left lane of this intersection is a “Bus Only” lane. It is wide enough only for a bus and is surrounded by unbroken white lines. Did the cyclist illegaly ride through that lane when entering the intersection. It is very very highly likely that he/she did which is simply the act of a complete idiot. Choosing to endanger his/her own life by illegally riding in the bus only lane when there is a wide, high quality cycleway along that stretch of road is just asking for trouble.

    Any basis for this comment? It’s “very very highly” possible to enter that intersection without touching the 20 metres worth of bus lane on athllon. The bus lane doesn’t continue into the intersection and doesn’t continue into callam street (provided things haven’t changed since the last time I was there and the last time google street view was updated).

  42. #42
    54-11 (Picketer) 16:13, 15 Dec 09

    You’re dead right, Holden – in this case I was on the roundabout, heading from Adelaide Ave onto Melrose drive, and this dick on a bike on Yamba Drive pulled out into the roundabout in front of me.

    Then, as the topic is all about, he abused me for whatever it was he thought had gone wrong. Which was, of course, that he was a dick on a bike, pretending to be a car, but without the horsepower to get onto the roundabout in a legal and safe manner.

  43. #43
    Grrrr (Anarchist) 16:30, 15 Dec 09

    Very Busy said :

    I would be very interested to know how this cyclist got to be in this intersection in the first place. The far left lane of this intersection is a “Bus Only” lane. It is wide enough only for a bus and is surrounded by unbroken white lines. Did the cyclist illegaly ride through that lane when entering the intersection.

    You’re desperately trying to manufacture a situation where the cyclist is in the wrong. The “bus lane” consists of ONLY the last 10 metres before the intersection:

    http://maps.google.com.au/maps?sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=49.950825,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=-35.349044,149.090154&spn=0.001356,0.00284&t=h&z=19

    It’s obvious from the description that the cyclist was simply keeping left, to avoid riding through a 3-lane intersection in the middle lane. Whether or not he had ridden through the bike lane before the lights is irrelevant, because he was being tailgated in a shared lane.

    Nice logic with the “The bus driver did the wrong thing” followed up by “but the cyclist was more to blame.” You sound just like a 5-year-old explaining why it’s fair to kick someone who said something they didn’t like.

    Excusing the apple-throwing behaviour by suggesting it was caused by someone, somewhere who did something silly on a bike is a complete pile of crap, too. There’s no justification in the assault.

  44. #44
    Grrrr (Anarchist) 16:38, 15 Dec 09

    Holden Caulfield said :

    If my interpretation is correct, I look forward to you finding a road rule that says any vehicle has right of way at roundabouts ahead of vehicles already on said roundabout and approaching from the right.

    Of course I won’t be finding any such thing. The way I read it, the cyclist was already on the roundabout and the “corner” was an entrance to the roundabout. The desciption was little ambiguous…

  45. #45
    caf (Agitator) 18:39, 15 Dec 09

    It is a great shame about the apple throwing incident but I can’t help but think that this is the result of an absolute minority of idiots on bikes who continually display illegal and inconsiderate behaviour giving the vast majority of cyclists a bad name.

    You might think that, but you’d be wrong.

    It’s actually the direct result of the actions of a minority of one idiot in a car with anger management issues, engaging in an illegal assault.

  46. #46
    Very Busy (Anarchist) 18:56, 15 Dec 09

    Grrrr said :

    Very Busy said :

    You’re desperately trying to manufacture a situation where the cyclist is in the wrong. The “bus lane” consists of ONLY the last 10 metres before the intersection:

    http://maps.google.com.au/maps?sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=49.950825,93.076172&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=-35.349044,149.090154&spn=0.001356,0.00284&t=h&z=19

    It’s obvious from the description that the cyclist was simply keeping left, to avoid riding through a 3-lane intersection in the middle lane. Whether or not he had ridden through the bike lane before the lights is irrelevant, because he was being tailgated in a shared lane.

    Nice logic with the “The bus driver did the wrong thing” followed up by “but the cyclist was more to blame.” You sound just like a 5-year-old explaining why it’s fair to kick someone who said something they didn’t like.

    Excusing the apple-throwing behaviour by suggesting it was caused by someone, somewhere who did something silly on a bike is a complete pile of crap, too. There’s no justification in the assault.

    It doesn’t matter how far to the left the cyclist is. Riding in the bus lane is illegal (and stupid given that a cycle path runs alongside it).

    It seems that we have some of the minority I referred to in post 36 contributing to this discussion.

    seeya

  47. #47
    Holden Caulfield (Agitator) 19:03, 15 Dec 09

    Grrrr said :

    The desciption was little ambiguous…

    Agreed.

  48. #48
    Ryan (Anarchist) 19:32, 15 Dec 09

    Helen said :

    trix said :

    …andhow many drivers have been abused by cyclists? No-one that I know of (including myself)…

    A colleague of mine had her car break down on a busy road in Canberra in peak hour not too long ago (can’t remember which road). She managed to pull over out of the main stream of traffic and into the cycle lane before it completely died, but had no hope of getting it up the curb. While waiting for the NRMA to turn up with her hazard lights on, several cyclists yelled abuse at her as they rode past, one slowing down and hitting her window with the flat of his hand, another slamming his fist down on top of her wing mirror. What was she meant to do, get out of the vehicle into peak hour traffic and attempt to push her car up a straight edge curb?

    That’s horrible. She’s done everything right here – gotten out of the way of the (motorised) traffic to prevent congestion, put her hazards on.. what is wrong with some people?

    I rarely, if ever ride in bike lanes on the road and generally only if there is not an adjacent cycle path. You still get inconsiderate people on the cycle paths who see you coming yet don’t keep to their side of the path, but you’re definitely going to be far more likely to survive an incident on a bike path than one on the road.

  49. #49
    OYM (Hooligan) 19:33, 15 Dec 09

    On a positive note, I commute to work on my bike, drive my car sometimes and even occasionally ride my motorcycle. For the most bicycle riding to work in Canberra is a fantastic experience and often the best part of my day.

    Canberra has some awesome cycling facilities. Often we have to mix between road, on-road cycling lanes and recreational paths and generally it all works fairly well. Canberra is a beautiful city and lends itself well to cycling.

    As a car driver, it’s so rare that bicycles cause even the slightest of inconvenience – especially compared to what other drivers often do. It really doesn’t take much effort just to move over a little and to look out for those more vulnerable including cyclists, pedestrians and motorcyclists. By the same token I hope that big trucks are looking out for me in my car.

    Try commuting to work on a bicycle, no parking fees or traffic hassles, you feel better for it, no petrol or car wear and tear and God knows you might even enjoy it.

  50. #50
    Mordd (Anarchist) 20:46, 15 Dec 09

    The problem is motorists who don’t know the road rules themself and the fact that a cyclist is a vehicle and therefore has the same rights as you do, maybe we need to require more frequent re-testing of road rules in canberra. I would fully support a system of licensing for bicycles, as long as that meant that from now on when I report a dangerous driver the police actually treat me like I am a vehicle as well. Can someone quote me from ACT legislation where it says its illegal for a cyclist to ride in the bus lane also????

    The best method I have always found of dealing with aggressive motorists though is carry a D-lock on your bike. The few times in sydney/melbourne in the past when I rode a lot and had a driver get out of their car to confront me, getting off the bike with D-Lock in hand is usually enough to make them get back in their car and on their way again. I am not for a moment suggesting anyone actually assault anyone else, cyclist or motorist alike, but many car drivers do act like “because im bigger i can do what I want” in regards to cyclists, so its hardly surprising that most cyclists are naturally defensive riders in how they ride, just like most motorcyclists are the same due to their smaller vehicle size.


Post a comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.


Advertisement

Advertisement

Join our Mailing List

Most Commented Posts

Recent Comments

Show your support by making a Donation