Walking around the city in mid-afternoon a couple of weeks ago, I started wondering why exactly Civic is so lifeless at ground level in so many places. Especially west of Northbourne, whole block frontages are blank walls, fire door exits, or frosted glass. The footpaths are a shabby collection of pavers and cracked concrete joined together by bits of bitumen to fill in gaps. Some streets like Moore St are almost bereft of trees. No shopfronts. No life. Lots of dark corners for rubbish to collect and smokers to hang out.
Could it be something to do with the fact that buildings in Civic are limited to maybe ten or 12 floors? All this seems to do is to create an ever-increasing spread of monotonous low rise buildings taking over blocks and former carparks – not that I’m a fan of surface carparks either. But look at what’s happened in the block where the NICTA building is, on Marcus Clarke St. Nice building, but now the block’s full of low rise structures, a set of new dark sterile alleyways, and more blank walls. And soon the huge carpark between London Circuit and City Hill will get its own set of interlocking building-shaped lumps.
With fewer, taller, buildings there would be much less street frontage that had to be occupied, so it could be filled with just a few shops, a cafe and a nice foyer. No need for three sides to be blank walls everyone scurries past. Then the rest of the block could be kept as open space – a park, some trees, maybe something like a child care centre or an adult education facility, and so on.
Or is the problem that there aren’t enough people living in the city? The centre of Barcelona is full of eight storey block-filling buildings in a regular grid pattern, but each block manages to be its own little village – the shops you need are all at ground level, even service stations are buried within the block, and all the upper floors are apartments. Each street intersection is a small tree-filled square. Not much open space, but a whole sense of life and activity that is almost entirely absent from Civic.
I know Canberra is different, but Mr Griffin’s ideas weren’t perfect and they’ve been tinkered with and neglected over the decades. Imagine something like the classic old Sydney and Melbourne buildings (now rotting away), redeveloped to retain the colonnades, restaurants and shops, as well as the hidden treasures of the back alleys with the huge plane trees, but with a few more levels of apartments above? Or why not eliminate the four cloddish blocks filling section whatever it is at City Hill, replace them with a 40-story mixed use tower and join City Hill to the parkland that’s left surrounding the new tower. Fewer, taller buildings – would it work?
Because this is a entirely manufactured town that has been to designed according bureaucratic specifications and political whim.
Its people are so in awe of pencil pushers that they do not dare to assert their right to the privacy and security afforded by front fences. Pathetic.
seekay said :
Yes, that must be it….
Not.
Here’s a phrase I don’t ever use. Until now.
Oh, yawn.
A city’s what you make of it. “Here I am now: entertain/amaze/amuse/enhrall me.”??
You can only do so much with a concrete jungle, but whenever the administration tries to spark the place up they get caned for spending taxpayers money on refurbs or public art.
They try to enliven the city with ‘Groovin’ in the City’ and get caned in some quarters for being lame or cheesy.
I don’t have any ideas and would be interested if anyone has some viable options. I personally would like to register minus one vote for the 40 storey monstrosity. I love the energy of Sydney, and to a lesser degree, Melbourne, but dizzily high buildings are only good when you’re presenting a course in the 36th floor corner training room overlooking the city and Port Phillip Bay. They lose their attraction from the ground when you’re trying to catch the sun (metaphorically, of course — slip, slop, slap, wrap).
Civic has always been the coolest place in Canberra. Maybe I just still associate it with the buzz of a Friday night and hanging out with your school friends and youths hooning round and round East Row while you were waiting to catch buses. There was always a feeling that anything could happen.
I think Overheard is right. When you go there now it’s hard to get a coffee after 10pm, sometimes even earlier. We used to go to Gus’ at 11:30 at night for dinner and think nothing of it once. So, I think if the people don’t go there, the business shut up early, then there’s nothing to do so the people don’t go there.
Canberra has always been about who you know and making your own fun. We’ve tied people to poles in giant nappies and baby bonnets for hens’ nights, and even sent a bride to be snorkelling through the fountains outside the legislative assembly.
I’ve sat out in Garema Place with my best buddy and talked till three in the morning while the soup kitchen was serving.
You make your own fun. One spark can set a whole city alight.
: )
Granny said :
I’m sorry Granny, but any non-Government approved/funded activities such as those simply cannot be tolerated in this city.
They’ll have to catch me first ….
; )
I’m not too keen with 40 storey buildings. They create too much shade and the wind gets too gusty.
No matter what is done now and in the future, I’m sure people will still be trying to add some ‘life’ into Civic in 100 years time. Whilst trying to make it better, it can be easy to forget what is already good about it.
Still, you have some good ideas, especially when it comes to mimicing European cities.
the solution is clearly to build more public artwork
Like totally ….
I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit.
Its the only way to be sure we clear enough land to follow Walter Burley Griffin’s original plan, with monumental ziggurats everywhere.
http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/eserv/UQ:135718/n15_1_002_Turnbull.pdf
“The Architecture of Walter Burley Griffin: archetypal patterns” has 27 instances of the word ‘ziggurat’ in 26 pages.
(In case any people were wondering, I’m a nightmare to play against in Scrabble)
Granny said :
Exacarey, Granny.
I know I go on about, but there really is too much to do in this town, and it doesn’t need to cost an arm and a leg.
I’m actually sick as a dog this week — nearly coughed out a kidney this morning, but I’ll still have gone out every night and done something different.
Monday: trivia in Dickson (OK, I was running the show, but YOU could come along for free and possibly walk off with some cash, and Granny can tell you how much fun it is — the RiotACT contingent is slowly swelling — now watch it get canned in three weeks!);
Tuesday: ‘The Band Broke Up’ at The Front — sublime entertainment for $5 at the door and the price of a couple of beers.
Wednesday — Hashtoberfest at the Zierholz — just uploading pics now (say a little prayer for me, JB!).
Thursday — already went to a superb business breakfast thing with Jazz (managed not to cough and splutter all over everyone) and…. OK, so tonight’s entertainment is at Braidwood Folk Club, but still in the region sort of.
Then Friday night it’s one of Australia’s best live bands (Jigzag) at the Merry Muse for $15 for muggles. Hear them with me on Artsound FM from 5pm Friday. (I’ll be at a Pink Ribbon breakfast first on Friday and then in the Canberra Centre from 11am to 3pm selling pink ribbons — come and say g’day — I’ll have a bucket on my head if the amoxcillyn hasn’t kicked in properly.)
Saturday night I’ll be at Durras (at an event that you’re welcome to join if you’re interested: http://members.pcug.org.au/~terryg/chhh.html — contact ‘Sweeper’), but if you stay in town, YOU should seriously get along to the Folkus Room in Mawson. For $15 you will get a gilt-edged guaranteed superb night of entertainment. More on DIY Wotz on later. And I’ll be doing radio on Sunday night so I haven’t looked at what’s on yet.
So all of that is not a ‘Hasn’t Overheard got a wind-swept and interesting life (thank you, Billy Connolly)’ — it’s just that if anyone needs to wring their hands about being boring and having nothing to do, they should shove a BMA up themselves sideways!!! (In a nice way, and watch out for the paper cuts…)
Skidbladnir said :
Kingston has no shortage of residential Ziggurats. Gilgamesh would feel at home.
I personally think it’s got a lot to do with demographics. I think the majority of us 30 some things now either pay extreme prices for rent, or are mortgaged up to the eyeballs. That coupled with the never-ending issues brought up here about public transport, and our refusal to use it, prices of cabs etc, us being probably the biggest demographical punters just can’t afford to go and spend our limited funds hanging out in Civic. Any truth in this?
I was in Civic last night, I actually commented to my wife how years gone by, the cafes along near where Cafe Della Piazza used to be, were always buzzing. Last night it was like a ghost town. A shame really.
tylersmayhem said :
PLENTY of things to do for nix or not much, tylers.
Have to agree about the reduction in alfresco action. Dunno what that’s all about.
Again, this is NOT a big it up to myself, but I’m just reflecting on what a superbly engaging week this is (albeit that I’m on prescription drugs but also on doctors’ orders to de-stress) and while it’s been full and rich and fulfilling, there’s a 19 year old I know (no relation) whose week has been all about TV, DVDs, video games, and currently spending hours downloading apps and ringtones for a mobile phone.
Vive le diversite. Je pense…. je ne sais pas…..
PLENTY of things to do for nix or not much, tylers.
I agree – never disputed that mate. But I’m simply comparing it to the way things were back about 10-15 years ago. Different demographics. Just my opinion.
I think we need more people living in the City as you suggested in mixed use buildings, (though probably not 40 storeys), which would provide incentive for more active street fronts with cafes/restaurants etc which could then stay open till late as less of the city would be a ghost town after 6pm
tylersmayhem said :
Fair comment, though funnily enough I’m getting out and about and around much more in my middle age than I was as a footloose and fancy-free 19 year old. Difference? I either didn’t know where to look or didn’t have the right people to tell me where to go (so to speak).
Aforementioned 19 year old is currently playing solitaire… And yes, I’m sat at a laptop but I’m working! (And due for some (legal) drugs!) Diversity is good. I can remember all of seven years ago it was EVERY Friday night down to the faux Irish pub in the middle of town with the same crowd to stand around the same barrels drinking the same beers and yeah, it was fun, but not as rich and varied as what life now offers.
taco said :
Your point is a good one, but there are far more people living in Civic now than there were even two years ago (see Civic west) let alone 10 or 20 years ago, and yet Civic still lacks that zing so many of us think it needs.
Perhaps access to and from Civic, especially public transport and especially at night, also requires consideration in this debate. Getting the plebs in from the burbs could be the issue.
I still think the development in Lonsdale Street will be a positive move to bring some more people into the city. I think that there is something of a mentality that once you’re that far out in the ‘burbs, say after work, that it is a bit of a haul to come back in. I certainly felt that way when I lived in Kambah. Mind you, if I wanted to do something in the city, I just stayed in town. Depending on what was going on, options were limited to get home again afterwards.
I don’t get it. I love Canberra. I love civic. It’s the best of all towncentres in Canberra. At least it’s not ALL inside like, say, Belconnen (where I live, so I feel free to speak).
At lunch times in Civic (where I work) I find there are often performers around (not just the busking variety) and all manner of things to see.
And yes, you do have to make your own fun sometimes. Not everything has to be done by other people. I am never, ever short of things to do here.
Lunchtimes are okay, but at night it’s either completely dead or, later in the week, full of pop-collared douchebags full of piss and aggro (but dressed strangely like teenage girls). I gotta admit that I don’t frequent Civic on weekend nights anymore because I can’t stand the clientelle.
Jim Jones said :
Commune more your kind’ve scene?
“Commune more your kind’ve scene?”
Sir, I’d like to present you with a trophy.
For your penetrating and delightfully subtle satiric insights, you’ve just won this year’s CHAMPAGNE COMEDY award.
Congratulations.
Also, you’ve used 5 words, but managed to slip a typo in there. Well done, kind sir.
Also, please have a sip of the kool-aid, I think you’ll find it delightfully refreshing.
No time for Civic. Too many people with productive lives for my liking.
I only go there for the Phoenix.
Jim Jones said :
It’s not necessarily so. (*Sings* The things that they’re sayin’ in the papers….)
I’ve sometimes just plonked myself down near the chess pit some nights (typically in the warmer months) and just lapped up the atmosphere that people of all walks (and staggers) of life generate.
P.S. Is ‘Jim Jones’ a folk song reference? http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=91429416 — song four (4).
Jim Jones said :
Jim – you escaped the jungles of Guyana and made it to Canberra! How lucky are we!
Thanks for the offer, as generous as it is, but I’ll pass on your kool-aid. I daresay it is even worse to drink than recycled sewerage.
I have noticed that the streets are dreary, dark and not very friendly around the canberra centre. bunda street seems to have the life sucked out of it. used to be open and buzzing, now it is darkened, windy and not vibrant at all.
and the fact that the parking offers around there are positively nightmarish, I just will continue to go to areas that are open, friendly and easy to park at.
Overheard said :
P.S. Is ‘Jim Jones’ a folk song reference?
Google Reverend Jim Jones … note the earlier Kool Aid references in this thread.
Civic is so very five minutes ago. It’s too posh in parts and too dreggie in others. Braddon is the new Civic.
West civic is a lost cause. As has been said Braddon is our next chance. It is a blank canvas we just need to utalise it.
My best answer would be to flatten most of braddon (debacle, the haigue??? nights bridge and those funky shops etc etc can stay tho
) The only formula that can work is a nice mix of apartments and office spaces for all budgets. However in this economy thats not likely.
We need the cheap rent that only an oversupply can provide so people can afford to open small interesting businesses, alfresco dining and produce from small businesses not supabarn. Space must be left for shops, heaps of it even if they wont open for years. Hell let charities use them for now. While interesting public spaces must be left at every building (not in the centre, cough avenue/metropolitian) Oh that oval and good old “rape park” (The one opposite shell) could be much MUCH better utalised.
You wanna improve civic? Simple remove the need for econimies of scale to get things built or operating be it liquor licencing or builing apartments that don’t need to maxamise space for more dwellings just to turn a profit. As i said tho its not likely
Monstrosities like offices at the airport and DFO/brand depot are the problem here.
Wow massive ranty wall of text sorry
Yay! We need less of the high quality design standards and more ‘organic’ urban development. When people talk about great cities it’s the quirky, sprawly, interesting ones (London, Tokyo, New York, Prague, Sydney) not the ones with cutting edge planning values (Washington, Geneva, Milton Keynes, Canberra).
I do LIKE being able to just park a 30 second stroll from the Street Theatre in City West, though.
Ari said :
Ahhhhhh! Kool Aid. Jim Jones.
Klink! (Would be the sound of the penny dropping. ‘Jim Jones’ is still a brilliant song, and the Beenies rock — check that link out. Go on. I dares ya.)
Piratemonkey – an oversupply of space is most definitely not the problem in Civic. Civic has retail/hospitality space out the wazoo. Most of the businesses in Civic are only just squeaking by – even the good solid ones. Expect a lot of empty shop frontages as the economy worsens, particularly given the post-apocalyptically expensive rents in the Canberra Centre.
Fact of the matter is, while our Gubbmint is beholden to the developers (desperately needing that flow stamp duty lucre to stop the ACT economy from imploding), we’re going to keep seeing the construction of big, ugly, soulless consumer barns like the Canberra Centre expansion and never a proliferation of more human-scaled and eclectic retail/hospitality.
I’d love to see Civic turn into something resembling Melbourne’s Brunswick Street (it occasionally threatens to do so in the older parts of Civic around Garema Place-City Walk-Petrie Plaza but never quite manages it). However, I just can’t see it happening till people wise up and stop stumbing, zombie-like, into the god-awful consumer aircraft hanger across Bunda Street.
“However, I just can’t see it happening till people wise up and stop stumbing, zombie-like, into the god-awful consumer aircraft hanger across Bunda Street.”
I find it really sad that shopping malls are one of the only (popular) conceptions of ‘public space’ at the moment. Surely there must be a decent way of separating places for hanging out from places where you buy stuff.
Jim Jones said :
glebe park.
Markets outside the old Boulevarde (where Babars used to be, near Kathmandu) on a Thursday — a nice little pocket of local produce so close to the temple of overly bright light and too much noise and blah blah.
Anyone know what development is coming up for Braddon?
Steel barns?
*chuckle*
It would be nice to do something with Hague Park.
It is a waste of space at the moment – you never see a soul in there.
sepi said :
Hmmm, pondering …. open space that’s long and straight …. I’ve got it! … Dragway!
Well, it would certainly liven the place up ….
I still harp “bring some decent bars and pubs out in to the outer suburbs”. All Bar Nun the way it used to be would be tops somewhere out in Belco.
… my Labrador finds Haig Park quite a lively joint. But then again, I suppose he IS a dog.
Perhaps Lachie from the Wig & Pen could open a couple of microbreweries out in the suburbs. I’m sure Richard could brew up the same quality as he does now. The only problem would be to keep the riff-raff out so it wouldn’t become another Charnwoood/Giralang tavern.
The only problem would be to keep the riff-raff out so it wouldn’t become another Charnwoood/Giralang tavern.
That should be easy enough if pitched correctly at the desired market I’d think.
I don’t know what All Bar Nun used to be like but it’s a rubbish place now. Footy heads and their airheaded girlfriends galore, all with double, or single if they’re front row forwards, digit IQs.
All it really takes is a nice bar with a DJ who’ll play chart music plus a few good oldies, it works an absolute treat in Belgium (believe me, they know how to make really great bars!!) One problem is (and this may piss a few off) is that the average Aussie male has pretty plain dress sense. Not much use creating a really nice venue if the clientele are wearing king gees and a Canberra Raiders tshirt. Perhaps I’ve been living in Europe too long.
I ascribe to the view that only boring people get bored.
Canberra doesn’t have the population density of Barcelona or Brussels and so is unlikely to sustain the same sort of city life. For the size of Canberra, I am constantly amazed at the amount of entertainment and the quality of the venues we DO have.
I recently attended a focus group where it was all about Civic and what we thought about it, what we would like to see there, what are the problems with it etc. It was an interesting discussion and some of the points that were mentioned that I can remember include –
- don’t need to go to civic that often as town centres have everything I need (shopping, entertainment etc)
- lots of empty buildings, lifeless, baron, wind blowing around rubbish like a ghost town at night, lack of lighting in places at night, parking issues, public transport issues
- just another shopping center, not much for kids there except for the carousel
- maybe needs some night time markets, day time markets or a big ferris wheel like in London! Some other ideas were put forward that sounded good at the time also. If I remember them will post them up.