Bail support

By 28 October, 2011 24

Some might think that a major problem for kids going off the rails has been a lack of boundaries.

Despite that Joy Burch has announced still more accommodating arrangements for the youth who have found themselves in the justice system (most often a problem of their own making).

“Remanding young people in custody should be one of the last resorts of any legal system,” Ms Burch said.

“Staff in the service will assist in identifying alternative accommodation for young people if required, and will also be able to assist young people to comply with their bail conditions.”

The after-hours bail service will support young people who are already on bail and those facing fresh charges outside of daytime business hours, where bail is being considered.

“The service will operate each evening and into the early hours of the morning to provide advice to police and young people about options to support young people who are going to be placed on bail or who already are on bail.

“We know that reduced exposure to a custodial environment has a significant impact on reducing recidivism amongst young offenders, and through this program we aim to reduce the likelihood of a young person being placed on remand for a short period until the necessary arrangements can be made to grant them bail.”

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24 Responses to Bail support
#1
JessP1:06 pm, 28 Oct 11

Our tax payer dollars at work……

#2
Lookout Smithers4:53 pm, 28 Oct 11

I emphatically deny that you would be able to back with evidence the idea that the youth end up in court because: ” most often it is a problem of their own making’. However they end up there is not the issue written about here so I know not why you make a side note of speculation regarding youth offending. All judicial know that once you expose a young person to prison, and particularly adult prison, the quality of life and any hope of a turnaround is unlikely. I feel for the judge or magistrate who has no choice but to impose a custodial sentence on a young person, essentially ensuring their fate. And with life long ramifications snowballing in severity with time. Kids need tolerence and understanding even past 18 years. Using them as a source to lay blame is pathetic and cowardice. Picking on kids is the finest example of a decent human. For shame.

#3
poetix5:12 pm, 28 Oct 11

I can’t help but think of the recent report into children at risk in the ACT. If one of those kids (say the six year old found wandering around a major shopping centre, still wearing nappies, whose mother denied he was her son) ends up committing crimes, could it really be said that it was of his own making? I know that eventually, everyone has to take responsibility for his or her own actions, but surely while they are still legally minors, we can afford to be compassionate and try everything to keep them out of custody?

Perhaps we need to balance that compassion with being harsher to young people from ‘good backgrounds’ who commit crimes? But they’re the ones who’ll get the best lawyers, of course.

#4
cranky6:56 pm, 28 Oct 11

One would require the wisdom of Job to decide the bail path to be trodden by this young lad and his ilk.

http://the-riotact.com/slow-learning-richardson-teen/57605

#5
mareva6:56 pm, 28 Oct 11

The OP makes little sense. If a “lack of boundaries” is a “major problem” for kids going “off the rails” (all the punctuation marks indicate that that sentence alone is loaded with meaningless cliches), then what is problematic about a service put in place to reinforce bail conditions, assist compliance, etc.? I am not understanding. You say there is a problem with lack of boundaries. This service is reinforcing boundaries.

“Our tax payer dollars at work…” Again, what exactly is the problem here?

Good to see people like Smithers and Poetix retaining some common sense.

#6
Lookout Smithers7:05 pm, 28 Oct 11

cranky said :

One would require the wisdom of Job to decide the bail path to be trodden by this young lad and his ilk.

http://the-riotact.com/slow-learning-richardson-teen/57605

Immaturity with a car. Hardly worth a media release.

#7
cranky7:20 pm, 28 Oct 11

Mr Smithers,

If this youth were to deliberately smash into your car 9 times, (probably causing damage), I think you would be correct in defining it as a little more serious than ‘immaturity with a car’.

An 18 year old acting in this manner is not what society expects.

Please give us your solution to these actions. I’d suggest this stupidity was emminently worthy of a media release.

I’m lucky. My kids have sold their Commodores :)

#8
TheDancingDjinn7:39 pm, 28 Oct 11

poetix said :

I can’t help but think of the recent report into children at risk in the ACT. If one of those kids (say the six year old found wandering around a major shopping centre, still wearing nappies, whose mother denied he was her son) ends up committing crimes, could it really be said that it was of his own making? I know that eventually, everyone has to take responsibility for his or her own actions, but surely while they are still legally minors, we can afford to be compassionate and try everything to keep them out of custody?

Perhaps we need to balance that compassion with being harsher to young people from ‘good backgrounds’ who commit crimes? But they’re the ones who’ll get the best lawyers, of course.

My family have now adopted that boy – i assure you he will be fine.

#9
Jethro8:23 pm, 28 Oct 11

cranky said :

One would require the wisdom of Job to decide the bail path to be trodden by this young lad and his ilk.

Isn’t is the wisdom of Solomon? I thought Job was the guy whose life God completely destroyed in order to win a bet with the devil.

#10
Tool8:29 pm, 28 Oct 11

U know sometimes kids are bad and it doesn’t matter what u try they are going to continue being bad. Once again spending money on something the money could be better spent on, like focusing in child protection, something Joy is so good at.

#11
Udonoodle10:22 pm, 28 Oct 11

I work in a shopping centre. One of my colleagues was bashed in the interchange by a group of young girls who regularly steal from us and have been banned from the store. Despite being banned they returned the other night to steal from us where they chased us both around the store again in order to assult us. At the time they were both in breach of their bail conditions. They returned the next week to steal from us again (once again in breach of their bail conditions) the police came and arrested them and told us it was actually the second time that day they had arrested them for being in breach of their bail. In the interim they had also bashed another girl in the interchange in order to steal her phone…. remind me again why these people should not be put in remand???
I think we can make excuses all we like for these people. Im well aware their upbringing has alot to do with the decisions they make. but at the end of the day they are going out and making choices that they know are socially unacceptable, and people are being harmed. I should be able to go to work, confident that I wont be threatened or assaulted. And thats just not possible when a magistrate keeps releasing them on conditions that will certainly be breached

#12
Henry8210:56 pm, 28 Oct 11

Can someone please explain what services “bail support” would provide? Is this a glorified taxi service? or do you call up to confirm bail conditions? “can i drink?” no “okay”

#13
wildturkeycanoe12:31 am, 29 Oct 11

If a “young person” is in trouble with the law outside of business hours and cannot give his/her parent’s phone number or a way of contacting them, the legal system is operating to the extent of giving them the option of bail and the crime warrants bail or incarceration, why is there a service in place to give this person freedom when they have no way of paying back that cost of freedom. Why is there a service that gives a criminal or would be criminal, free room and board instead of what they deserve? The early hours of the morning are for adults to enjoy, not for young-uns.

#14
Lookout Smithers9:40 am, 29 Oct 11

cranky said :

Mr Smithers,

If this youth were to deliberately smash into your car 9 times, (probably causing damage), I think you would be correct in defining it as a little more serious than ‘immaturity with a car’.

An 18 year old acting in this manner is not what society expects.

Please give us your solution to these actions. I’d suggest this stupidity was emminently worthy of a media release.

I’m lucky. My kids have sold their Commodores :)

I have no idea what society expects, I didn’t ask them and I am sure no one asked him either. I guess if the media is an international joke, then it might be a story the morons will buy. I am not even sure this is all the facts as I have only the information I received via mass media. Sure its stupid to be fool hardy with a car, but that is like pointing out a fat person and saying they are fat. I have no solution for and I frankly can’t see a need for attention on this matter. If this event is enough to strike fear into someone to the point that it becomes news worthy, then I would hate to see them with real problems. Don’t like teenagers with cars being hooligans? Then find something else for them to do that benefits all parties. You were a parent , its not hard to teach them if you can entertain (trick) them too.

#15
fabforty9:55 am, 29 Oct 11

wildturkeycanoe said :

If a “young person” is in trouble with the law outside of business hours and cannot give his/her parent’s phone number or a way of contacting them, the legal system is operating to the extent of giving them the option of bail and the crime warrants bail or incarceration, why is there a service in place to give this person freedom when they have no way of paying back that cost of freedom. Why is there a service that gives a criminal or would be criminal, free room and board instead of what they deserve? The early hours of the morning are for adults to enjoy, not for young-uns.

You clearly don’t understand the legal system or this service.

Young people are not given the “option” of bail. It is for the courts and (in the early hours) the police to decide – not the young person. The bail service has been set up for young people who have been granted bail and who do not have any appropriate adults who can care for them or who don’t have anywhere to go. The service finds them a suitable place to stay.

I do not believe that young people should have to be locked up simply because they have become homeless, have useless parents and/or mental health issues and detention is the only option.

What is the “cost of freedom” by the way ?

Surely everyone deserves the right to have their case heard in court before anyone decides “what they deserve’.

#16
Lookout Smithers10:17 am, 29 Oct 11

Udonoodle said :

I work in a shopping centre. One of my colleagues was bashed in the interchange by a group of young girls who regularly steal from us and have been banned from the store. Despite being banned they returned the other night to steal from us where they chased us both around the store again in order to assult us. At the time they were both in breach of their bail conditions. They returned the next week to steal from us again (once again in breach of their bail conditions) the police came and arrested them and told us it was actually the second time that day they had arrested them for being in breach of their bail. In the interim they had also bashed another girl in the interchange in order to steal her phone…. remind me again why these people should not be put in remand???
I think we can make excuses all we like for these people. Im well aware their upbringing has alot to do with the decisions they make. but at the end of the day they are going out and making choices that they know are socially unacceptable, and people are being harmed. I should be able to go to work, confident that I wont be threatened or assaulted. And thats just not possible when a magistrate keeps releasing them on conditions that will certainly be breached

I will remind why. Once they become accustomed to jail and what Jail is like, it is not going to seem as a deterrent but rather another place to live or sleep at temporarily. If Jail becomes tolerable for the young and no other avenues are explored, think of how the adult version of that kid will behave. Shop liftng won’t even make the cut. Then it will become a cause for concern. In sentencing young people, every avenue must be explored as an alternative to Jailing them. The reason being that once they go in as a young petty offender, they will likely never have a good quality of life always in and out of Jail until something gives. This is the real offender you fear and the one that the courts try and avoid creating. I fear the young person too. They are green and full of themselves with everything to prove. I was exactly that person and I shudder thinking about the person I was becoming. I woke up at 19 and I have achieved more than I thought possible. And believe me I was that teen menace you are facing. I was given a chance and had some lucky breaks. But humans can and do learn with time. It is called growing up. Everyone should have every chance to do it.
For what it is worth, it could be a whole lot more serious in your situation and I think you need some perspective. Say for instance that you Jail these current problem kids that are stealing from you and you go off about your day happy assuming that the threat of harm has safely been put to rest. I do feel the need to point out that it is your safety that is the issue here and not that you want stamp out teenagers with these bad behaviors. Because really, if you felt safe and you couldn’t come to any harm, you could care less what anyone behaved like. So the kids are in Jail for a three month period and then you might, probably not, but might think that it is all okay in the world only to be stabbed an hour later while ordering take away in the food court by a vagrant with psychosis. You can’t control everything least of all life chances and death. I think you might need to show some stoicism and show these kids what for. At least you will have tried something meaningful that could work. Which is more than I could say for the tested and failed Jailing, which has never worked. It hasn’t even made us feel like its the best way so far.

#17
Lookout Smithers10:41 am, 29 Oct 11

wildturkeycanoe said :

If a “young person” is in trouble with the law outside of business hours and cannot give his/her parent’s phone number or a way of contacting them, the legal system is operating to the extent of giving them the option of bail and the crime warrants bail or incarceration, why is there a service in place to give this person freedom when they have no way of paying back that cost of freedom. Why is there a service that gives a criminal or would be criminal, free room and board instead of what they deserve? The early hours of the morning are for adults to enjoy, not for young-uns.

You really have put forward a disturbing statement here. I do hope you are joking and I suspect you are. Freedom for the citizens of this nation is the right of every person living here. It does not need to be paid for, period. Nor is there a system of credit which you deduct from anytime you put a foot wrong. Bail, you should be aware, is always considered and likely granted when it involves a child. The services that you refer to are ones that all citizens pay for thanks to our western liberal democracy. And these services benefit everyone. That is why we have them and the laws as well. They are written by the people, us, for the people. All people. Not just the ones who consider themselves a different person because they have never been to court for stealing candy. If you have a problem with the services that our system affords to the children, then you should maybe write a letter to your local member. However, given that we are a free country and your member most likely endorses the idea of freedom and the basic right to it at no charge, you might not tell them that you think we should all pay for it in advance. You might consider not telling them also that you are for jailing kids without access to their parents. It comes across a bit backward and a little scary. Then you might get a response thanking you for the humor and use of the likening of Jail to a hotel. It never gets old at all. Do you use your index finger for all your brainstorms genius?
You could simply just be called a big dummy.

Again, I feel you trolled here and if this is the case, please ignore the above.

#18
54-113:10 pm, 29 Oct 11

Lookout Smithers said :

Udonoodle said :

I work in a shopping centre. One of my colleagues was bashed in the interchange by a group of young girls who regularly steal from us and have been banned from the store. Despite being banned they returned the other night to steal from us where they chased us both around the store again in order to assult us. At the time they were both in breach of their bail conditions. They returned the next week to steal from us again (once again in breach of their bail conditions) the police came and arrested them and told us it was actually the second time that day they had arrested them for being in breach of their bail. In the interim they had also bashed another girl in the interchange in order to steal her phone…. remind me again why these people should not be put in remand???
I think we can make excuses all we like for these people. Im well aware their upbringing has alot to do with the decisions they make. but at the end of the day they are going out and making choices that they know are socially unacceptable, and people are being harmed. I should be able to go to work, confident that I wont be threatened or assaulted. And thats just not possible when a magistrate keeps releasing them on conditions that will certainly be breached

For what it is worth, it could be a whole lot more serious in your situation and I think you need some perspective…

Wow, what a condescending, patronising attitude to someone who was making a good point about the uselessness of bail conditions for little thugs who don’t give a stuff about what they do and who they do it to.

#19
Lookout Smithers7:24 pm, 29 Oct 11

54-11 said :

Lookout Smithers said :

Udonoodle said :

I work in a shopping centre. One of my colleagues was bashed in the interchange by a group of young girls who regularly steal from us and have been banned from the store. Despite being banned they returned the other night to steal from us where they chased us both around the store again in order to assult us. At the time they were both in breach of their bail conditions. They returned the next week to steal from us again (once again in breach of their bail conditions) the police came and arrested them and told us it was actually the second time that day they had arrested them for being in breach of their bail. In the interim they had also bashed another girl in the interchange in order to steal her phone…. remind me again why these people should not be put in remand???
I think we can make excuses all we like for these people. Im well aware their upbringing has alot to do with the decisions they make. but at the end of the day they are going out and making choices that they know are socially unacceptable, and people are being harmed. I should be able to go to work, confident that I wont be threatened or assaulted. And thats just not possible when a magistrate keeps releasing them on conditions that will certainly be breached

For what it is worth, it could be a whole lot more serious in your situation and I think you need some perspective…

Wow, what a condescending, patronising attitude to someone who was making a good point about the uselessness of bail conditions for little thugs who don’t give a stuff about what they do and who they do it to.

It is meant to convey the fruitlessness of taking that attitude. If it sounded condescending, it is because the point being made is so old and done to death without any progress it beggars belief that people still bring it up. If these thugs, albeit little, need you to show them the way in life. Let us see what you can do for us all. Please, show me you are something more than one idea and insults. Condescending wasn’t the intention, but if you get to call kids thugs or dismiss them as being sub human, then i think it fair that you should expect a little bark back. I don’t think name calling is useful to anyone.

#20
Wily_Bear8:56 pm, 29 Oct 11

I applaud this initiative, as it would seem an unhappy situation to remand a child in custody simply because their is no suitable support for them, especially given the law provides for a presumption of bail.

Lookoutsmithers, congratulations are due for bringing level headed analysis to such a polarised debate. I really feel for those who have been victims of crime, however I implore you to consider that a compassionate response to children is in the long term interests of the community. Like Smithers, I too could have gone the wrong way, save for being afforded opportunities by good people.

#21
Classified11:25 pm, 29 Oct 11

It’s certainly thuggish behaviour.

#22
TheDancingDjinn2:25 pm, 30 Oct 11

Wily_Bear said :

I applaud this initiative, as it would seem an unhappy situation to remand a child in custody simply because their is no suitable support for them, especially given the law provides for a presumption of bail.

Lookoutsmithers, congratulations are due for bringing level headed analysis to such a polarised debate. I really feel for those who have been victims of crime, however I implore you to consider that a compassionate response to children is in the long term interests of the community. Like Smithers, I too could have gone the wrong way, save for being afforded opportunities by good people.

While i am all for giving someone a chance, more so for a child. I can’t help but wonder how many of these children have had the ” opportunities” your talking about and still went ahead and re-offended? how many opportunities should those children get?, when can we finally say ” sorry young person, you may not go home to your friends and family” ?

#23
Wily_Bear7:05 pm, 30 Oct 11

While i am all for giving someone a chance, more so for a child. I can’t help but wonder how many of these children have had the ” opportunities” your talking about and still went ahead and re-offended? how many opportunities should those children get?, when can we finally say ” sorry young person, you may not go home to your friends and family” ?

I agree there does have do be an end point, and circumstances will exist where a child will need to be in custody. However, if I am interpreting this release correctly, it would seem this service exists to support those who would have been granted bail, but may not have the support available to allow the Magistrate to agree to it. This is one way to ensure that a kid is not further disadvantaged by crap parents, poverty, homelessness etc.

#24
Henry8211:41 pm, 30 Oct 11

There are programs in the US where trouble kids are taken to adult prisons, and verbally “roughed up” by the inmates. Then they sit down with some oldies who talk about how s*** prison actually is. I wonder if it has had any effect, and whether it would be useful here.

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