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Bizarro-world courtroom hijinx

By 8 January 2013 19

No doubt someone’s onto this already, but I found this bit of courtroom drama reported by the ABC strangely contradictory:

  1. Commit suicide and then afterwards set-fire to your house?
  2. Methadone is not a drug, apparently?
  3. Defendant should be able to go home, because it was a “brain snap”, then snaps brain once again at being refused bail.

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19 Responses to
Bizarro-world courtroom hijinx
IrishPete 8:19 am
10 Jan 13
#1

1) which probably helps demonstrate that he was a bit off the planet when interviewed by police
2) can’t work out how you made this inference
3) proving the police and magistrate right, that he’s too unstable at the moment to be sharing a property with his victim (there was a little more detail about his living arrangements on the Canberra Times website)

IP

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 8:49 am
10 Jan 13
#2

Choking out a woman. Real pos right here.

thebrownstreak69 9:15 am
10 Jan 13
#3

Refused bail? Wow…

Duffbowl 9:44 am
10 Jan 13
#4

IrishPete said :

2) can’t work out how you made this inference

IP

Probably from this part of the ABC article:

Today in court he applied for bail to return home, stating his actions were nothing more than a brain snap a result of him trying to get off [b]methadone[/b].

But Magistrate David Mossop refused saying his “bizarre and irrational conduct” could be [b]just as much caused by drugs and alcohol[/b].

Duffbowl 9:46 am
10 Jan 13
#5

Duffbowl said :

IrishPete said :

2) can’t work out how you made this inference

IP

Probably from this part of the ABC article:

Today in court he applied for bail to return home, stating his actions were nothing more than a brain snap a result of him trying to get off [b]methadone[/b].

But Magistrate David Mossop refused saying his “bizarre and irrational conduct” could be [b]just as much caused by drugs and alcohol[/b].

*sigh* One day, I will get the comment markups sorted…

IrishPete 2:39 pm
10 Jan 13
#6

Duffbowl said :

IrishPete said :

2) can’t work out how you made this inference

IP

Probably from this part of the ABC article:

Today in court he applied for bail to return home, stating his actions were nothing more than a brain snap a result of him trying to get off [b]methadone[/b].

But Magistrate David Mossop refused saying his “bizarre and irrational conduct” could be [b]just as much caused by drugs and alcohol[/b].

nope, there is no reason to make such an inference. If he was trying to get off methadone, then he’s not on it. So whether or not it is a drug is irrelevant. The magistrate is perhaps probably suggesting that it is OTHER drugs, and alcohol, which may be the cause.

Matt_Watts 3:11 pm
10 Jan 13
#7

IrishPete said :

Duffbowl said :

IrishPete said :

2) can’t work out how you made this inference

IP

Probably from this part of the ABC article:

Today in court he applied for bail to return home, stating his actions were nothing more than a brain snap a result of him trying to get off [b]methadone[/b].

But Magistrate David Mossop refused saying his “bizarre and irrational conduct” could be [b]just as much caused by drugs and alcohol[/b].

nope, there is no reason to make such an inference. If he was trying to get off methadone, then he’s not on it. So whether or not it is a drug is irrelevant. The magistrate is perhaps probably suggesting that it is OTHER drugs, and alcohol, which may be the cause.

You seem to like dealing in facts, IP. Maybe you’d like to clarify why someone “trying” to get off methadone is actually off it. Do or do not – there is no try :)

DrKoresh 3:42 pm
10 Jan 13
#8

Matt_Watts said :

You seem to like dealing in facts, IP. Maybe you’d like to clarify why someone “trying” to get off methadone is actually off it. Do or do not – there is no try :)

You seem to have no clue what an opiate addiction is like, maybe you’d like to prove that going cold turkey isn’t a problem and is just a matter of willpower. :facepalm:

Seriously though, this sounds like the kind of outcome you’d hope for in a case like this, the accused certainly doesn’t sound as if he should be allowed to return to the share-house.

Matt_Watts 3:59 pm
10 Jan 13
#9

DrKoresh said :

Matt_Watts said :

You seem to like dealing in facts, IP. Maybe you’d like to clarify why someone “trying” to get off methadone is actually off it. Do or do not – there is no try :)

You seem to have no clue what an opiate addiction is like, maybe you’d like to prove that going cold turkey isn’t a problem and is just a matter of willpower. :facepalm:

Seriously though, this sounds like the kind of outcome you’d hope for in a case like this, the accused certainly doesn’t sound as if he should be allowed to return to the share-house.

Wasn’t suggesting that cold turkey is a walk in the park, or even feasible.

Roundhead89 4:36 pm
10 Jan 13
#10

Reported by the ABC? Well, that explains everything …

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 5:28 pm
10 Jan 13
#11

DrKoresh said :

Matt_Watts said :

You seem to like dealing in facts, IP. Maybe you’d like to clarify why someone “trying” to get off methadone is actually off it. Do or do not – there is no try :)

You seem to have no clue what an opiate addiction is like, maybe you’d like to prove that going cold turkey isn’t a problem and is just a matter of willpower. :facepalm:

Seriously though, this sounds like the kind of outcome you’d hope for in a case like this, the accused certainly doesn’t sound as if he should be allowed to return to the share-house.

Yeah but going through drug withdrawals in no way ever justified violence.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 5:29 pm
10 Jan 13
#12

Roundhead89 said :

Reported by the ABC? Well, that explains everything …

What does it explain?

Spykler 8:53 pm
10 Jan 13
#13

Roundhead89 said :

Reported by the ABC? Well, that explains everything …

And?..We are all waiting..

Girt_Hindrance 10:25 pm
10 Jan 13
#14

DrKoresh said :

Matt_Watts said :

You seem to like dealing in facts, IP. Maybe you’d like to clarify why someone “trying” to get off methadone is actually off it. Do or do not – there is no try :)

You seem to have no clue what an opiate addiction is like, maybe you’d like to prove that going cold turkey isn’t a problem and is just a matter of willpower. :facepalm:

Personally can’t see anywhere that Matt stated that he believed it was an easy task to rid oneself of opiates. I’m sure he was making reference to either being ‘on’ or ‘off’ methadone, and that ‘trying’ to stay off is another subsidiary of still being ‘on’ methadone.
And, agreed, it doesn’t sound like an easy feat to be/stay off the opiates.
Feel free to correct me tho.
And also, I believe it was a ‘Yoda’ quote that he was making reference to.

DrKoresh 10:38 pm
10 Jan 13
#15

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Yeah but going through drug withdrawals in no way ever justified violence.

No, most certainly not, I agree with you. I just thought it was a bit rich of Matt Watts to basically tell him to harden-up and just stop being addicted.

IrishPete 9:03 am
11 Jan 13
#16

Trying to stop using methadone could mean a few things – it could mean gradually reducing your dose. It could mean stopping completely, and dealing with withdrawal. Or it could mean stopping completely after already having tried that, or reduced dose, before, possibly several times. Or it could mean substituting it with another medication, such as Buprenorphine, or Naltrexone, or illegal drugs or prescription opiates obtained illegally

I think it’s a long bow to suggest that “trying to stop” means he’s still using it. With more than a little experience in this field, I would interpret “trying to stop” as meaning he has stopped. But probably only quite recently. He’s trying.

In the Canberra Times it was reported he is also on medication for depression and anxiety. Some of those medications also have the potential to cause violence (or suicidal thoughts and behaviour) under certain circumstances (commencing, ceasing, missing doses, increasing or decreasing doses). I could name two in particular, but JohnBoy might not want to be sued by Big Pharma.

None of this takes away his personal responsibility. But people also need to be told that when taking medication, they need to take it consistently and only make changes under supervision of an appropriately qualified professional. Otherwise there can be really bad consequences for them, and for the people around them.

IP

Girt_Hindrance 12:15 pm
11 Jan 13
#17

IrishPete said :

I think it’s a long bow to suggest that “trying to stop” means he’s still using it. With more than a little experience in this field, I would interpret “trying to stop” as meaning he has stopped. But probably only quite recently. He’s trying.

IP

Come on IP, the English language is a difficult enough beast for people to navigate without individuals trying to put their own spin on it.
“Trying to quit” implies nothing other than they are still in the process of achieving that goal, same way that someone ‘trying to start this car’, ‘trying to get into this club’ or a lady ‘trying to get pregnant’ has not managed to as yet. We can break your argument down into groups such as ‘reducing doses’ (still on methadone), ‘drug substitution’ (not currently on methadone but on other drug/s), and ‘experiencing withdrawals’ (not currently on methadone and experiencing the aftermath), AKA, quit methadone, either permanently or temporarily.
Not a long bow at all.

And, if he’s in a genuine attempt to refrain permanently from taking methadone/any other drugs, then I too applaud his efforts, and yes, I appreciate it won’t be easy for him.

Antagonist 12:22 pm
11 Jan 13
#18

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Choking out a woman. Real pos right here.

Some of us pay good money for that kind of foreplay.

IrishPete 9:36 am
12 Jan 13
#19

Girt_Hindrance said :

IrishPete said :

I think it’s a long bow to suggest that “trying to stop” means he’s still using it. With more than a little experience in this field, I would interpret “trying to stop” as meaning he has stopped. But probably only quite recently. He’s trying.

IP

Come on IP, the English language is a difficult enough beast for people to navigate without individuals trying to put their own spin on it.
“Trying to quit” implies nothing other than they are still in the process of achieving that goal, same way that someone ‘trying to start this car’, ‘trying to get into this club’ or a lady ‘trying to get pregnant’ has not managed to as yet. We can break your argument down into groups such as ‘reducing doses’ (still on methadone), ‘drug substitution’ (not currently on methadone but on other drug/s), and ‘experiencing withdrawals’ (not currently on methadone and experiencing the aftermath), AKA, quit methadone, either permanently or temporarily.
Not a long bow at all.

And, if he’s in a genuine attempt to refrain permanently from taking methadone/any other drugs, then I too applaud his efforts, and yes, I appreciate it won’t be easy for him.

It was the OP who put a particular spin on it, and made a solid inference. I was suggesting there is another possible, diametrically opposed, interpretation.

Anyway, rather than the OP or me being right, it’s also possible the magistrate was just being slack in their teminology, or the ABC slack in reporting it. A lot of people use “drug” to mean illegal drug, but with the prevalence of misuse/abuse of Xanax, Seroquel and prescription opiates they probably need to be more precise.

IP

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