I know what the ACT Government are thinking. Lets provide on road cycling, clear our air, stop the consumption of fuel and lower car emmisions. All very good, and good idea really. It keeps people fit, and does lower car emmisions, etc. The thing that drives me mad, is the way some cyclists think they dominate the road. By law, if you hit a pedestrian or cyclist, no matter what the circumstances, your at fault.
Now these green ‘cyclists have right of way’ glory paths plastered on more and more roads every week I find are a death trap. I can’t say I remember once where a cyclist has used this green path which usually cross an exit ramp, and actually NOT seeing cars almost running up the back of each other. Time after time I see a good 3-4-5 cars slam their breaks on due to a cyclist using this green path, and the cars not seeing the cyclist for whatever reason (most likely due to the cyclist not being as wide as a car and not standing out as much). I’ll try and get some footage of this happening and post up a link.
I’ve got 2 concerns about this :- the first being my frustration at the cyclists for using these green paths, and my second being the safety for these cyclists. I know the green paths mean cyclists have right of way, but for God’s sake, you cyclists aren’t cars. You dont have airbags, you dont have crumple zones built into your bike. Its your life on the line – if you get hit, you get hit good. Sure the drive of the car will get in trouble if they hit you, but isn’t it better to avoid accidents then to know you have right of way if one does happen? I’m sure everyone can see the number of hit cyclists are going up almost on a weekly basis. I dont cycle on roads myself, but I can tell you if I did, I would certainly pull off to the side of the road to ‘cross’ the exit ramps then to just keep looking forward, continue cycling and hope for the best. This isn’t really the cyclists fault, its more of the people who thought of the idea in the first place.
I’m sorry to say it’s not just the green pathways that i’m concerned about. Pick a day, pick an intersection, and I guarentee you’ll see a cyclist doing something stupid. Today I saw a cyslist WITHOUT A HELMET come out of one of the designated cycle lanes and cross a Northbourne Avenue intersection diaginally from one side to another when their light was red. Are you a car today or a bike? A car would get booked if it went through a red light, you may not get booked, but you could very well get killed. Registration for bikes would be a really good idea I think, as well as them paying for some road costs. I can’t start to think how much it has cost the tax payer to pay contracts to drill all the cat-eyes on 3 lane roads to move them a foot to allow for a cycle lane. Its times when I see cyclists doing stupid things that really make me angry to think that so much money was spent on these cycle lanes, and these cyclists abusing the way they should ride on the road and endangering their lives.
I’m sure there is a website somewhere with how to properly use these cycle lanes, and i’m sure some items would include: wear bright clothing to attract attention – you dont stand out as much as a car or motorbike does, if you get to an intersection and the light is red – it means STOP, not hop up on the footpath to cross the intersection, check before using those death-trap green paths to ensure its safe or pull over onto the side of the road and cross when there is no cars.
In the end, i’m writing with concerns for you cyclists lives. Of course you have right of way – IF YOU SURVIVE THE ACCIDENT. I guarentee you the car will have right of way in a fatal accident. If you use the cyclist on-road cycling – your a car. Stop at red lights, give way as you would in a car. In the end the only thing you’ll get out of doing the right thing, is potentionally preventing an accident which you dont stand a chance with against a car.
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Cars vs Cyclists, again….bored with the subject and arguments. (read other threads for details)
Yes, I second T-Bone…Can you guys come up with something more original? Surfers vs. jetskis on Lake Burley Griffin? Koalas vs. Kangaroos in Tidbinbilla?
Sorry to bore you both. I don’t remember holding your head to the screen to make you read it.
as i have stated before, cyclists are intrinsically selfish.
the whole cycle lane green zones are but one manifestation of this.
i dont think teh cycle lanes are long for this world. change of govt/minister and pedal power may not have the access they have now.
Agree with Slinky and T-bone. But what the heck…
By law, if you hit a pedestrian or cyclist, no matter what the circumstances, your at fault.
Are you quite sure about that? I think not.
..the cars not seeing the cyclist for whatever reason..
Cars miss seeing motorbikes, other cars, buses and trucks too. If a person is given control of a large fast dangerous object they should learn to control the bloody thing, and that includes whatching where they’re going.
…first being my frustration at the cyclists for using these green paths…
I understand where you’re going, and sympathise to a degree, but as a regular cyclist two points spring up. One, cycle paths are great in Canberra – they really are. But they don’t go everywhere particularly efficiently. I don’t mind a 1-2 km detour in places if it’s safer, but sometimes the road is your only serious option. In this case give me a marked on-road cycle lane rather than nothing at all. Two, the more cyclists are around, then eventualy even Canberra drivers will take notice of where they are, if only to protect their duco.
not looking behind in green lanes… stop lights… helmets… registration… road costs…
Road users are supposed to drive safely, and that includes cyclists. They’re supposed to change lanes safely and wear (seat belts) or (helmets) by already existing laws. If they don’t then they can and are fined now if they’re caught in the act. What would registration do? Costs? I doubt green paint costs that much more than white paint, and I doubt even more that bikes wear that many potholes in the road. Police can and do already stop cyclists if they wish – they don’t need a registration number. Are road users going to ring up to complain about cyclists behaviour with a rego nmber? Probably, and i’m sure they’ll be handled by the same lucky cop who takes calls from people with car regos and complaints too, and will do the same thing – zip.
If you use the cyclist on-road cycling – your a car.
no, you’re a cyclist road user with just as much right to be there as the car/truck/bus beside you – and like them you’ve a responsibility to obey teh road rules and ride safely.. and a right to expect car drivers to make at least a token effort to be aware of your presence and drive in a safe manner. Just like car drivers expect semi trailer drivers to do for them.
as i have stated before, cyclists are intrinsically selfish.
Thank god for our altruistic, caring and aware car drivers then, eh, bonfire? Be a real mess otherwise.
I’m not going to buy into this
I’m not going to buy into this
I’m not going to buy into this
But…selfish is the inability to share – if you can’t slow down to leave a main road and if you’re not paying attention to other road users (motorbikes aren’t much bigger than pushies) then perhaps it’s your own use of the roads you need to be considering Bonfire et al.
I have a car, I buy petrol and my taxes go to roads as much as yours. I also pay for roads that I never use, just as you all do. If I choose to ride my bike and there are lanes there, I’m going to use them – end of story. Should we get rid of those selfish bus lanes as well?
I’d be very interesting to see your facts zhimmyd – I’m seeing a lot of conjecture but not so much in the way of backup.
As for cyclists acting like they own the road – when you are cruising along an 80kmh road, you have to be confident and you have to assert your rights or cars will just…um…walk all over you. Try it sometime and maybe you’ll understand a little more.
(And for the record, I’m opposed to any road user acting in an unsafe manner)
Ok, having said all that, this is a discussion that’s been had many a time with little resolution so that’s (probably) all I’m going to say on the matter (unless someone say something worthwhile)
Ooh, nice point about the car/semi-trailer relationship and also about making big detours with bikepaths Snarky. (My ride to work – when I get off my fat arse and do it – takes 20 mins more if I follow the bike path route)
(And probably generally better put than my rant)
I understand what your saying Snarky. There isn’t bike lanes everywhere, and really, some of them are in dodgey condition with tree root cracks appearing and making it a bumpy ride. I would have rather have seen the money spent on 1: fixing existing paths, and 2: creating new paths, even if they are 5-10 metres off the roadside for safety.
I disagree with you on the costs to put those ‘green’ lanes in. Have a good look at a road with a cycle lane. They have had to pay contractors to drill (yes drill) every single cat-eye off the road, get engineers to approve the new lane width, then pay the contractors again to re-stick down new cateyes, and paint new lines on the road. On top of this, its starting to get unavoidable at some parts on the roads to NOT drive over where the old cat-eyes used to be (where the old tar exists) to give you a very noisy drive. It would cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a big stretch of road (such as Adelaide avenue). On top of that, speed limits have been dropped in alot of places (Like Northbourne, from 70kmph to 60kmph) because of the new cycle lanes, thus creating a slow trip for cars (not that Northbourne usually moves that quick, but its just an example).
Like you, i’d take an extra detour to simply stay off the road. I’d much rather breathe in cleaner air from around the lake, then to breathe in car-exhaust emmissions by cycling on the road. Just watch – there will be law suits against the government for all these people who get lung cancer down the track becaues of that exact reason!
I still worry about the safety of the onroad cycling. As you said, drivers should look out when they drive, and they do. My point about not seeing cyclists is easy. If your doing 80km down Adelaide Avenue and your turning off (across a green path cycle way), the sun is in your eyes, there is no way you’d see a cyclist wearing dark coloured clothes as easy as you would see a black car, or even a motor bike. Also seeing those stupid ‘sit down bicycles’ without any type of high rising flag to attract attention is just asking for trouble. They would easily go under a 4WD.
Living out in Gundaroo, I hate Cyclists, they are out there every weekend riding on Sutton road and Murrumbateman road in groups of three or more spread across the lane which has a speed limit of 100Ks with heaps of blind fu*king corners….
Now if I collect a cyclist at 100ks I have probably ended there life and ruined mine in all honesty I see this as selfish, it is not a freakin bike path out there it is a fraking rural road with blind corners I’m surprised that a Cyclist isn’t injured/killed out there every other weekend.
What also shits me is that they (group of 3+) take up the whole freakin lane so I am forced to go around 40ks an hour… give me a break..
It’s my Road get the Hell off it!
Hey Blamemonkey,
Bikes can ride on your roads, but if you drove on their bike paths, you’d be the one who gets in trouble!
I can’t see the problem with the green lanes, its not as if they are sudden or anything like that, nor generally do cyclists suddenly approach from an off-road path onto a green lane (most of the time they are already on the roadside).
So as I’m approaching a green lane in my car, I can see the cyclist, I can see the green lane, and I have to judge my speed and the speed of the cyclist just like when I overtake EVERYTHING else on the road.
If I can’t make it, I slow down enough to let the cyclist clear the obstacle, if I can, I do (and safely too – I don’t cut in front of the cyclist).
That said, should a cyclist suddenly appear in the green lane from – wherever, and insist on right of way, a solid burst from my car horn in close proximity and the revving of a car that’s been dropped 2 gears aught to make his spandex a little more brown.
Still, I don’t have any problem with the green lane. Get over it.
I know this subject has been done to death on this site but the simple fact is that there are cock head cyclist who believe they are “car” proof.
What also pisses me off is when cyclists ride across pedestian crossing corect me if i’m wrong but they are ment to get off there Farking bike when they cross…
Simple fact bike vs Car, car wins every time! so why put yourself in a dangerous situation where you could lose your life .
keep safe keep on the bike paths.
Blamemonkey, how wide is the road? It’s often safer for cyclists to take up the entire lane/road on narrow streets because there isn’t enough room for cars to safely drive past them. That’s especially true on blind corners. It’s also possible that they can’t safely ride on the edge of the road. Road bikes are much more fragile than cars, so the surface of the shoulder might not be smooth enough.
Cyclists don’t need to dismount at pedestrian crossings, but they don’t have right-of-way unless they do.
Must…. not….. comment…. bikes…..allowed….on road.
Yeah mael, but that one off Commonwealth avenue is a prick in rush hour. Especially when you get bikes doing about 60 klicks down there.
they seem to come out of no-where.
Hello Blamemonkey,
I think you’ll agree that this comment …the simple fact is that there are cock head cyclist who believe they are “car†proof… even though it may well be true isn’t giving you much credibility when combined with this comment It’s my Road get the Hell off it!.
Pot, kettle, yada yada yada. Seriously, is it really that hard to get along with each other?
You guys ever heard of sharing? It’s what the guys on bikes have to do with you godamn slow pedestrians on the bike paths around town. These pedestrians don’t even stay on the left side of the path, they don’t look for bikes approaching from front or behind. We should ban all non-bike traffic from our cycle paths, and while we are at it how about a $100 million for upgrades to cycle paths to bring them up to the level of our roads. Everyone happy now?
How about we spend the $100m on flying bikes instead – mmmm, flying bikes. (I’d even be prepared to pay registration on one of those babies)
We should all be issued with a large Komodo dragon and a saddle. If one happens to come across a slow pedestrian the Komodo dragon can eat him…
Random if you combine the fact that they are taking up the whole road with the blind corners and blamemonkey doing 100 ks an hour… I come around this blind corner and run into a group of cyclists I don’t think anyone is going to be happy.
With cyclists on northbourne, Adelaide ave or where ever they have the green lane all is good they can stay in there lane I will stay in mine, but if they are not in a bike lane but on a road they are in a motor vehicle space and should give right of way to Cars/motorbikes.
Snarky – Do I require credibility to post on Riotact?? I’m a car driver I drive on roads, I am also a Canberrian that has an opinion, if you don’t care for my opinion ignore it, if you have something enlightening that could change my opinion that cyclists do not belong on the road please share it. If I chose to swear and get angry about a subject and it offends your time on the Net I’m sorry but it’s my opinion and I can deliver it any way I want
Kramer don’t bikes have bells on them… a simple ring of the bell and pedestians get out of the way, maybe next time i come up to a group of cyclists i blast my horn until they get out of the way…..
Flying bikes way of the future but then we will be have the discussion Flying bikes Vs planes
Do I require credibility to post on Riotact??
As both a cyclist and a driver I can see both sides of the bikelane arguement, and still think that they are a bloody stupid idea.
The bike lanes were mostly created by painting the emergency shoulder green. If a car is in trouble then it’s going to pull onto the side shoulder to stop. The fact that it’s painted green isn’t going to be foremost on the drivers mind, and finding a cyclist in front of him while driving a faulty car, there’s not much that the driver is going to be able to do.
I saw the recent aftermath of an accident like that on hindmarsh drive several years ago (before they started painting the emergency lanes green). I don’t intend to become as mangled as he was.
I’d like to bud back in here and say this:
You can see the frustration that car drivers have against cyclists, and that cyclists have against car drivers (all about the on-road cycling) for positive and negative reasons for each. Take this and apply it to a real-life situation on the road.
A cyclist has in their mind their ‘right of way’ when riding on the road. They just make their way to cross one of the exist ramps, or at traffic lights, or whatever. The car drivers who are frustrated with the way ‘some’ cyclists ride stupidly, would try and prove some kind of point to the cyclist by trying to get in front of them to use the exist ramp, all at the same time the cyclist knowing “i’m in the right, i’ll just continue riding”.
Here you have 2 people, both frustrated at each other because they have to share the road, and what happens? Someone calls an ambulance, cops turn up, cyclist gets taken away to hospital. Cyclist (human) + Car (metal) = bits of human all over car. It’s never going to be the other way around.
How can this be fixed? Cyclists should give way to cars when crossing roads, JUST LIKE PEDESTRIANS DO when crossing a road without a crosswalk. It’s been working for many many years this way, and it tends to work. 2. Get the cyclists off the road – spend the money on putting a bike lane in ‘near’ the road rather then ‘on’ the road. Sure there are some costs, but to save on 50 X million dollar conpensation for hit drivers, they can have their ‘off road’ cycling. 3. Leave the bikes on the road, remove cars from the road.
zhimmyd, that’s a pretty good summation – even if 3. never happens
if I’m reading you correctly it’s the green lanes crossing on-off ramps that are the biggest issue, and to be truthful if I had to stop at these and then cross over it wouldn’t worry me. And given the option I’d prefer off-road cycle paths too, but notwithstanding your previous comment about engineering costs of on-lane paths I suspect they’re still cheaper than building new off-lane ones. So, if I can’t have an off-lane path, please leave my on-lane ones there, because no path at all is far more dangerous again.
Good post, and some interesting discussion. A lot less flaming than I was expecting, to be honest.
I like option 3 zhimmyd !!!
Seriously, I don’t know quite where to even start to reply to your posting and much has been said on this topic before.
I find the cyclelanes to have made cycling a much more pleasant experience as both a car driver and a cyclist. For the most part, us cyclists trundle along happily in these lanes with a nice separation from cars. The green lanes are an area of higher danger and require more care from all road users – this situation nor the law have changed. The green lanes simply highlight this is an area for all concerned to take care.
Trying to concentrate on the positives, cycling is a fantastic activity and a great way to commute to work if it presents as a viable option for you. Not only do you get fitter, save on fuel, parking, car wear and tear, the environment etc., it can be a really enjoyable experience.
Who cares about pedal bikes, really. We invented engines for a reason, to travel fast and with less effort. Cyclist are annoy as feck they should only be allowed on the road provided they accept the contact nature of my driving.
I didn’t put a big bull bar on the front of my ute for Roo’s it was to nudge those annoy cyclist. The ones that jump from the road to foot path and back again. Either you are a road user or walking path take your pick. None of this best of both worlds bollocks.
You have all p*ssed me off I’m going to buy some razor wire and wrap the front of my bull bar with it.
Who cares about pedal bikes, really. We invented engines for a reason, to travel fast and with less effort. Cyclist are annoy as feck they should only be allowed on the road provided they accept the contact nature of my driving.
I didn’t put a big bull bar on the front of my ute for Roo’s it was to nudge those annoy cyclist. The ones that jump from the road to foot path and back again. Either you are a road user or walking path take your pick. None of this best of both worlds bollocks.
You have all p*ssed me off I’m going to buy some razor wire and wrap the front of my bull bar with it.
Nice double post loser