2 March 2009

Flyballers hard done by at the show?

| johnboy
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I know when I go to the show it’s the flyballers I always make a beeline for.

But it would seem the people and dogs providing that entertainment aren’t being well looked after. Here’s one blogger’s view of proceedings:

    after a while of scraping through the dirt possum started limping and then we saw that she had scraped the skin off her dew claw pad. poor baby. we taped her up but it didnt help and she ran a lot slower so we lost races we would normally win. we ended up having to pull her out so she wouldnt get hurt worse, and we finished only third when we were pretty sure of a first or second. we did one good time, but if they dont fix that surface for next year i think we wont go. the bad part of the weekend was made worse by the fact that we, the flyballers, were not given parking permits into the exhibitors part of the showground and would have had to pay show rates for parking. this didnt apply to people doing agility, or with the silly show dogs. what is it with the human race, that people always have to JUDGE someone else, and what they do, as not worthy somehow? so we parked out on the street and came back to find a window smashed and the car broken into. we lost important stuff we probly shouldnt have left in the car, and yet again i am left wondering at the complete deadshits human beings can be at times. especially canberra bogans.

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i resent being called ‘a troll’, kms…

as for what you think is advice worth heeding, excuse me while i fall off my chair laughing. im not sure why some of you want to be so hostile and defensive? is it because i dared to criticise yor precious canberra, which, i might add, i have been a resident of on a number of occassions.

i wasn’t in any way referring to anything you said about ‘yor [sic] precious canberra’, rather that the way you brought in the aspect of finances smacked of being concerned with this to a level beyond that to which you obviously care for your dog. i haven’t taken this to be a criticism of canberra – why did that come up? are you? do you resent the city for its amenities you find difficult to assemble in a useable package in your home city? we can’t help a drought, but you can help how/if you choose to participate in – or worse, send your dog to participate in – an event on a dangerous surface. i am not a troll and would ask this comment be retracted. reread what i wrote and think before posting on a live internet site – even your own – regarding what might become of these words.

Ha. Not “potenTAILly”, but you get the point. 🙂

Perhaps the flyballers could look at affiliation with the agility dogs?

There might be the ability for dual usage of the areas?

Potentailly the agility dogs don’t need their ground to be in such good nick for their displays, if my memory serves me correctly.

Jim Jones said :

Please don’t feed the trolls kms.

ok i wont.

but your neighbours might find feeding their dogs everytime they leave (eg a bone, or a pigs ear or something) might stop the fretting and break that habit…. our dogs are happy to see us leave 🙂

Please don’t feed the trolls kms.

Not an attention seeker, that’s not what I said – just milking this situation for all it’s worth.
My comment wasn’t intended to stir you up, merely an observation.

p1 said :

I know that my lawn, which hasn’t been watered in some time, would be bare earth in about 15 seconds with a dog running on it. And I am amazed that the evens that I bother watching (like woodchopping or flyball), are in random places, while boring stuff like cows, horse, cats and dogs (who have been brushed well), seen to be treated with so much importance.

You should get an anti theft device.

lol, where do i buy one them? fyshwick?

and katie, oh yeah im a real attention seeker. ask anyone. sheesh.

Despite the hard time you’ve had lately with the injury and financial loss, this may indeed lead to a better outcome in future.

I honestly believe that the intentions were good, and the post was simply meant to draw attention to the issue.

Yep Kms, I get your point. In fact, I got it the first 5 times you made it clear. I can’t help but suspect you might be enjoying the attention from the amount of posts you have made and the fact that they mostly say the same thing over and over and over and over…..

I know that my lawn, which hasn’t been watered in some time, would be bare earth in about 15 seconds with a dog running on it. And I am amazed that the evens that I bother watching (like woodchopping or flyball), are in random places, while boring stuff like cows, horse, cats and dogs (who have been brushed well), seen to be treated with so much importance.

You should get an anti theft device.

kms said :

Jim Jones said :

kms – there are a stack of semi-literates and just plain old retards on this forum. Best to ignore ’em if you can.

To be fair to johnboy, he was citing your blogpost in order to raise awareness that “the people and dogs [in the flyball comp] aren’t being well looked after” and elicit discussion about it.

It’s a sad fact of the internet that ‘eliciting discussion’ generally involves more keyboard-warrior-type-abuse than anything else.

thanks for that, yes i have clarified the publicity issue with johnboy now. it just threw me, to post that on my blog only yesterday and then have it turn up here. its a bit freaky, i need to think more about that public aspect. i just assume only people i know read my blog.

i hope this does raise some awareness, i know there is going to be a lot of feedback to the comp organisers and a lot of people said they wouldnt come back if it was the same surface so perhaps this might give us some lobbying power with the show society. i know you cant please everyone all the time but we cant afford to race in conditions like that again. it would be a shame if nothing changed because despite the bogans and carny freaks and weirdos, let alone the bizarre dog and knitting world people (dont ask) i quite like canberra 😉

Cool. It might even be worth sending an email or something to the comp organisers, linking to the site and letting them know that there’s a bit of public discontent about the event.

If it’s any consolation, my partner is a bit of a knitting world person and I’m a bit of a bogan. Takes all sorts I suppose.

AngryHenry said :

Sounds like your neighbours dogs have separation anxiety by the way. Each day their pack is split up and it makes them sad, they usually get over it after a while once they settle into a routine.

Thanks Angry – that sounds like the right explanation.

The thing is, they have settled into a routine. They do this every morning (the missus has taken to sleeping through the alarm and then waking up when the dogs go nuts). It’s not annoying or anything; more distressing than anything (although they do settle down after 5-10 minutes or so).

Although, I suppose they’ve got kids that have odd routines (with Uni and all), so it could be a beginning of a new routine thing. I’m not sure if they were doing it over the Summer break or not.

kms said :

the other point i was trying to make was that i posted that comment on my own blog, (where people who know me and my sense of humour etc would not, and did not, take offence) not on riot act, and it was used in riot act and became a reason for people to have a go at me, when i didnt ask to bring this issue up at riotact. do you see why that might get up my nose?

Oh I understand ENTIRELY why it got up your nose. It certainly would have got up mine as well.

I thought it was *extremely* poor form in the first instance. 🙂

Jim Jones said :

kms – there are a stack of semi-literates and just plain old retards on this forum. Best to ignore ’em if you can.

To be fair to johnboy, he was citing your blogpost in order to raise awareness that “the people and dogs [in the flyball comp] aren’t being well looked after” and elicit discussion about it.

It’s a sad fact of the internet that ‘eliciting discussion’ generally involves more keyboard-warrior-type-abuse than anything else.

thanks for that, yes i have clarified the publicity issue with johnboy now. it just threw me, to post that on my blog only yesterday and then have it turn up here. its a bit freaky, i need to think more about that public aspect. i just assume only people i know read my blog.

i hope this does raise some awareness, i know there is going to be a lot of feedback to the comp organisers and a lot of people said they wouldnt come back if it was the same surface so perhaps this might give us some lobbying power with the show society. i know you cant please everyone all the time but we cant afford to race in conditions like that again. it would be a shame if nothing changed because despite the bogans and carny freaks and weirdos, let alone the bizarre dog and knitting world people (dont ask) i quite like canberra 😉

I agree with you Jim Jones, you open these doors online and anyone can walk through them. It’s definitly a case of buyer beware.

Sounds like your neighbours dogs have separation anxiety by the way. Each day their pack is split up and it makes them sad, they usually get over it after a while once they settle into a routine.

So I’m off to the vet’s now to deal with my doggy’s little problem. And possibly to purchase some nice smelling pot purri on the way home.

Hopefully his butt wont smell like low tide anymore.

The original comments on the RA post make it very clear that the sport is well liked and supported and express concern for the treatment of the animals and their owners.

kms – there are a stack of semi-literates and just plain old retards on this forum. Best to ignore ’em if you can.

To be fair to johnboy, he was citing your blogpost in order to raise awareness that “the people and dogs [in the flyball comp] aren’t being well looked after” and elicit discussion about it.

It’s a sad fact of the internet that ‘eliciting discussion’ generally involves more keyboard-warrior-type-abuse than anything else.

It wasn’t as though the poster was saying that all canberran’s are bogans or anything like that.
Maybe just referring to bogans, of which resided in Canberra. making them Canberra bogans instead of Queanbeyan bogans or coast bogans..

yes well i can see how that got up your nose. i did say there are bogans everywhere, and i did used to live in canberra so i know that there are plenty of non-bogans there too. its just pretty rough to come out of a show that you dont get a parking permit for (while other dog sports do) to find your window smashed. i just handed over $500 to the glass guy to fix it so dont ask me to be happy about it, or generous about it, or even forgiving about it. i dont care who did it, but it was done in broad daylight in stirling st across from the shell there at watson, and i hate the person who did it, bogan, non-bogan, canberran or extra-f***in’ terrestrial.

the other point i was trying to make was that i posted that comment on my own blog, (where people who know me and my sense of humour etc would not, and did not, take offence) not on riot act, and it was used in riot act and became a reason for people to have a go at me, when i didnt ask to bring this issue up at riotact. do you see why that might get up my nose?

It is pretty funny that Johnboy has chosen to include the Canberra bogan portion of that blog/rant, but is defending the poster now that people are showing hostility.

johnboy said :

protest behaviour.. i know it well.

Our next door neighbours have a couple of dogs who bark and cry like crazy every morning when their family leaves for work.

Is this in the ‘protest behaviour’ boat? Or is it more just a sad lament kind of thing?

The dogs certainly aren’t mistreated (it’s a huge family, and they’re walked regularly and have lots of positive company in the afternoons and at night), so I’m always a little weirded out by this behaviour (I dig dogs, but I’m a cat person really, so I’m not too au fait with doggy psychology).

johnboy said :

protest behaviour.. i know it well.

does your dog behave similarly?

Gobbo said :

I agree Angry Henry. When it comes to who broke into the car, the Carney’s are a likely suspect.

I guess that part got up my nose the most from the original blog. The automatic assumption, when there were so many people from interstate, that it was a Canberran bogan who did the break and enter.

Haha because if there is one thing a Canberra Bogan isn’t is a theif!

She’s just venting, we can’t bridge cultural divides without at least trying to understand where she’s coming from.

I’ve already forgiven her.

I agree Angry Henry. When it comes to who broke into the car, the Carney’s are a likely suspect.

I guess that part got up my nose the most from the original blog. The automatic assumption, when there were so many people from interstate, that it was a Canberran bogan who did the break and enter.

protest behaviour.. i know it well.

bahaha.
The Retriever/labradors will eat anything I have found!
My dog is a fussy eater, but loves to chew up my things if I stay out too late! (no joke)
either he gets anxious or its punishment for me staying out late. But it only ever happen’s if I stay out after midnight!

On topic I reckon you were hard done by. And they should take a look at the level of care across the board for any animals that are at the show.

Especially those carneys, the mangiest of animals there and who are proably more suspect of breaking into your car than a Canberra bogan.

I said before flyball guys are nuts, but very entertaining. I actually think that the fact they are is beneficial to their dogs because I’ve never seen people play up to the energy level of dogs as much as they do(although I do question as to wether some of the participants obsession with the sport is all that health, maybe a little human interraction once in a while may assist with their perspective).

Funny thing about dogs is that most of the people I know who own them have different ideas as to how to best bring up that dog but they all do a pretty good job with their pets regardless of their methods.

*hehe*

Sounds like your friend and AngryHenry need to start a support group for Owners Of Pets Smelling Yucky a.k.a. O.O.P.S.Y.

My dog ran through a bindy patch and I had to spend an hour to pick all the prickles out.

But I still don’t see how these personal anecdotes will improve the flyballing location at the Canberra Show.

If the Dog Club can’t convince the RNCAS to provide a better surface, what can be done?

FC said :

My dog was very naughty this weekend. When I got home on Saturday night I had found that he had snuck into the bathroom and had removed the conditioner container from the floor of the bathroom and taken it outside to chew on it.

I had a mate who left his dog and a friend’s dog (both Golden Retriever/Labrador crosses) in his backyard during the day. He got home in the afternoon and discovered that the two buggers had eaten an entire bag of blood and bone fertiliser. They were both really crook, and they farted particular nasty sulphorous emissions for about a fortnight.

Jim Jones said :

Blogger complains about her dog getting hurt at a hosted event, then gets attacked on an internet forum, called stupid and is accused of animal abuse.

I’d be pissed off.

But would you do about the issue Jim?

FC said :

oh – it was about issues with their dogs and the showgrounds.
never mind….

now thats funny….(sorry about the shampoo tho)

oh – it was about issues with their dogs and the showgrounds.
never mind….

My dog was very naughty this weekend. When I got home on Saturday night I had found that he had snuck into the bathroom and had removed the conditioner container from the floor of the bathroom and taken it outside to chew on it.

Blogger complains about her dog getting hurt at a hosted event, then gets attacked on an internet forum, called stupid and is accused of animal abuse.

I’d be pissed off.

I wonder if there are any local Canberra readers of RiotACT who experienced similar issues with their dogs on the weekend?

Back on topic or into mod, everyone’s warned.

Pommy bastard2:50 pm 03 Mar 09

johnboy said :

It’s not the views, it’s the way you argue then which are consistently offensive.

Now email me if you want to debate this further.

I’ll email you though another account John, as I’m at work.

Pommy bastard2:49 pm 03 Mar 09

Who, me or John? ; )

It’s not the views, it’s the way you argue them which is consistently offensive.

Now email me if you want to debate this further.

Pommy bastard said :

John if people cannot put their views, and cannot experess a differning viewpoint to yours here, then what is the purpose of RiotAct?

It’s funny that people here have experessed far more radical views than mine, but as they coincide with your own they do not get censored.

Fell free to ban me.

I think someone else needs their anal glands expunged. I can recommend a good vet.

Pommy bastard2:46 pm 03 Mar 09

John if people cannot put their views, and cannot experess a differning viewpoint to yours here, then what is the purpose of RiotAct?

It’s funny that people here have experessed far more radical views than mine, but as they coincide with your own they do not get censored.

Fell free to ban me.

Oh, AngryHenry!

: )

I think you’d best just whip off to the vet and deal with the blessed Karma that way.

I’m not having a go at AngryHenry, poptop. I just think kms is upset enough already. I just can’t help thinking, “How would I feel?”

Wasn’t laughing at the fact her dog got injured Granny just the play on words. I can’t watch Bondi Vets for example because it makes me too sad.

If it’s any consolation my dog has a bad case of fishbutt and I am off to the vets to have his anal glands expunged. The stink eminating from him is toxic.

You can call tha Kharma if you like.

Granny said :

I can’t laugh at the thought of a little dog being injured, AngryHenry. I don’t find anything hilarious about it, I’m afraid.

no there isnt anything funny about it, and its not helpful to be telling us what we should or shouldnt be doing, or how to handle the situation, or our dogs, when you werent there pommybastard and dont know what youre talking about. i give up.

Different things, Granny.

Slagging poor spelling is entirely different to finding humour in an injured animal.

PB, with your circular arguments and general levels of abuse and agro you’re not worth arguing in by the standards of most sane people.

That makes me question whether it’s worth continuing seeing them published here.

I’d like you to think about that before I have to give it more thought myself.

I can’t laugh at the thought of a little dog being injured, AngryHenry. I don’t find anything hilarious about it, I’m afraid.

Hahah! She said ‘heel’ instead of ‘heal’…

Hilarious…

ebony57 said :

It seems like a case of damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. It would be nice to think that if, as a group, you refuse to use the substandard facilities, then something might actually be done about it.

Sadly, though, this usually ends up with someone else coming in to fill the gap, so to speak.

Hope you get some sort of resolution, and that the organisers are taking this seriously. Absolutely agree that the owners/participants should provide feedback, but something productive needs to be done with this at a higher level. Not sure if possible/feasible, but maybe they (the organisers) should look to another event other than the Canberra Show to link up with.

If they can’t/won’t get anything done to improve things, then you’ve got to wonder if it’s really worth it after all. The reputation of the event won’t get any better, and if the quality competitors pull out rather than risking injury to their animals, then the event just becomes a mickey-mouse run around a park.

yes i think this is a good point, we have other comps in canberra down at the dog club training grounds and its really good there, but we do like to have an audience because we think its kind of fun to watch (and yes some of the people are completely nuts). there is this long tradition of being associated with the show, and i know that a lot of people want that to continue, so hopefully we can get a co-ordinated response to the show people after this years event that will get them to make good on some of their promises about putting in a grey watering system on that part of the showground. that would help it recover a bit from the other events they have there earlier in the year. thanks for the constructive feedback.

I know you love your dog, kms. Thanks for bringing her down for the show. I’m sorry that she ended up getting hurt and that you had such a bad experience with your car being broken into.

I do love my city though, very much. It certainly is precious to me.

Good luck with getting the EPIC people to respond to your concerns.

Pommy bastard2:28 pm 03 Mar 09

kms said :

you know you’re asking for trouble questioning the care we give our dogs right?! when we arrived the surface looked like grass, we raced all day saturday in that heat and wind and by the end of the day the surface was totally shredded. we noticed saturday night that our dog had sore feet, we taped them up so they might heel. sunday morning the racing lanes had been moved across a few feet but it took only an hour or two for them to shred up again.

That’s not giving your pet the sort of treatment it deserves then, making it go again on a surface you knew was substandard, one which had already damaged it. I’m not asking for trouble dear, you’re giving yourself all the bad reputation you need by your own words.

we put vet wrap on our dogs legs as did a number of other people. shes a working dog, she doesnt care if shes hurt, but we did, and we pulled her out of the racing. did you read that part? other people pulled dogs who were hurt worse out earlier.

I’m just showing my surprise that people allowed their dogs to compete on a surface which would injure them, did you not inspect it properly first?

part of the problem is that the show society ‘contract’ flyball to race for the whole two days. if we pulled out as an individual team, they would mark us as forfeiting and they wouldnt return our entry fees, even tho they provide the grounds.

Boo hoo, is that more important than your dogs health? It wouldn’t be for my dog.

and if you turned up to play rugby on gravel the whole game would be cancelled and you would get a refund of your $125 entry fee, dont you think?

I wouldn’t care one jot, I have the intelligence not to put myself (or animals in my care) in harms way.

or maybe i should just tell you to harden up?

Feel free to, I’d rather have sense than “hardness”.

some people who inhabit this space seem determined to misinterpret. my point about the money (which i just knew some troll or other would pick on) is that we are not paid to do the flyball which provides entertainment and is an attraction for the show society. we pay THEM to be there. if the conditions they provide are substandard and we tell them so, their response is ‘well you can forfeit and not get your money refunded’. that is ONE of the several issues with the current arrangement. under what other ‘commercial arrangement’ might that be ok? we are not a retailer out there to sell something. a lot of our comps are held in conjunction with shows and some show societies are great and others (canberra/sydney) are crap.

as for what you think is advice worth heeding, excuse me while i fall off my chair laughing. im not sure why some of you want to be so hostile and defensive? is it because i dared to criticise yor precious canberra, which, i might add, i have been a resident of on a number of occassions.

Guys and girls, I think we all got off on the wrong foot here and it’s mostly my fault for missing the link.

Addressing the issues… I think the show would be making a huge mistake losing the flyball. They should seriously think about having it in the main arena because it is invariably the event I, and many others, enjoy the most.

I mean show dogs? Dog judging is the most tediously dull thing in the world if you haven’t got a dog of your own in the show. And don’t get me started on horsey bollocks.

So there’s two things here:

1) An unwatered surface when other, less interesting but more politically connected dog events have watered surfaces.

2) No parking for participants when that’s made available for others as above.

I think the show society should think very hard about this.

It seems like a case of damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. It would be nice to think that if, as a group, you refuse to use the substandard facilities, then something might actually be done about it.

Sadly, though, this usually ends up with someone else coming in to fill the gap, so to speak.

Hope you get some sort of resolution, and that the organisers are taking this seriously. Absolutely agree that the owners/participants should provide feedback, but something productive needs to be done with this at a higher level. Not sure if possible/feasible, but maybe they (the organisers) should look to another event other than the Canberra Show to link up with.

If they can’t/won’t get anything done to improve things, then you’ve got to wonder if it’s really worth it after all. The reputation of the event won’t get any better, and if the quality competitors pull out rather than risking injury to their animals, then the event just becomes a mickey-mouse run around a park.

i dont have to read drivel comments from people i dont know.

no-one asked you to come here and read the comments – as danman notes above, you could have left quietly and just had a correspondence about johnboy’s use of your public blog text.

so, you are more worried about your $125 than your dog’s health? is that what you mean in your retort to pb?: and if you turned up to play rugby on gravel the whole game would be cancelled and you would get a refund of your $125 entry fee, dont you think? or maybe i should just tell you to harden up?

advice in there somewhere, worth heeding.

They play on gravel down in Queenstown, Tasmania. 🙂

My heart bleeds for you. It does really. I am so sorry that Canberra bogans ripped you off in the flyball ring and by breaking into your car.

you know you’re asking for trouble questioning the care we give our dogs right?! when we arrived the surface looked like grass, we raced all day saturday in that heat and wind and by the end of the day the surface was totally shredded. we noticed saturday night that our dog had sore feet, we taped them up so they might heel. sunday morning the racing lanes had been moved across a few feet but it took only an hour or two for them to shred up again. we put vet wrap on our dogs legs as did a number of other people. shes a working dog, she doesnt care if shes hurt, but we did, and we pulled her out of the racing. did you read that part? other people pulled dogs who were hurt worse out earlier. part of the problem is that the show society ‘contract’ flyball to race for the whole two days. if we pulled out as an individual team, they would mark us as forfeiting and they wouldnt return our entry fees, even tho they provide the grounds. i have already said that if they dont guarantee better grounds next year we wont be racing, and other teams feel the same, which means possibly no more flyball at the canberra show.

and if you turned up to play rugby on gravel the whole game would be cancelled and you would get a refund of your $125 entry fee, dont you think? or maybe i should just tell you to harden up?

Pommy bastard12:57 pm 03 Mar 09

If the ground was so bad, why did these “caring owners” risk their dogs health on it?

I mean if I turned up to play rugby and found the ground was gravel, I wouldn’t play. Likewise if I had a working dog I wouldn’t subject it to substandard pitches for fear of injuring the dog and hurting a mate.

Tempestas said :

Grundy/Gobbo/Skidbladnir, you seem to know too much to be a disinterested uninvolved observer. Perhaps you might belong to the lets breed them unti their insane, why would you work them instead of looking at how pretty they are crowd.

I just know the way the show ground and lessees work these things.

No need to try and take a swipe at me love. You missed by miles. 🙂

If the organisers of the flyball competition knew the area they had was substandard, (and it was the same area as last year), then they should have lobbied harder for a better area. If you can’t get satsfaction from them, contact the show organisers direstly with your complaints.

Otherwise, please continue to rant on your blog as much as you want. It just won’t change much.

I am not invovled with any of these organisations, although I do have two mutleys of my own. Neither of which are interested in balls.

🙂

I have a random-bred mutt.
He gets good regular exercise and plays with other dogs, but competition flyballing in front of a crowd who applaud and judge seems wholly wierd to me.

Yeah that flyball sure is entertaining.

It does certainly suck that the dogs suffered because of the badly maintained surface…

An observation I’ve made though is the owners who are in these flyball teams are INSANE!!! Having said that, they are FAR more entertaining than the dogs. I laughed, I cried and occaisionally I had to look away.

It’s like that movie ‘Best in Show’ on speed.

I think that Tempestas might have a point in their judgment of Grundy/Gobbo/Skidbladnir.

Show people do such much for the doggy world, in fact the BBC made a documentary to show what they do “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_Dogs_Exposed”.

There is a lot of money to be made running a puppy mill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppy_farming. This is how show people can afford to fund their own piece of EPIC by selling overpriced defective living products.

Let’s all get back on topic shall we?

thanks, we hope so too. as tempestas says, shes a working dog and needs to work, flyball is great for that. she also does sheep work and our other dog does agility.

and i dont think the good people here at riotact would put you in a moderation queue for merely expressing your opinion surely?!

kms, you could have remained blissfully anonomous and save face if you just let this thread run its course.

I am a pet owner and sympathise with your concerns, however, your subsequent postings offer yourself no help furthering your concerns.

I hope the situation is improved for you and your club in the future.

Grundy/Gobbo/Skidbladnir, you seem to know too much to be a disinterested uninvolved observer. Perhaps you might belong to the lets breed them unti their insane, why would you work them instead of looking at how pretty they are crowd.

Personally I think any person who keeps a working dog as a pet and doesn’t allow it work should be deprived of all sorts of things.

The OP’s point was that they write their blog for a specific audience and weren’t writing to withstand the onslaughts of F*wit notitalls like yourselves who inhabit this place.

If this gets me in the moderation queue then so bit it.

thanks psydfx. i dont think i have made myself very clear really, i was annoyed at johnboy for using my stuff without crediting me but he fixed that, and then i got annoyed at OTHER peoples comments that were having a go at me, when they werent privy to the whole context of my BLOG and what i use it for etc. esp people making peronal comments about me or my life, which were just cheap shots and off topic anyway. it also feels a bit like i am the one who actively started the complaint about the show when i was just griping on my blog and not expecting that to be read by anyone who doesnt know me (i dont want more exposure for my blog, its not that sort of blog) and really it was johnboy who raised the issue of how we were treated. i have since been commenting on peoples comments and am grateful for those that expressed their concern as well. i just dont like being personally attacked when i didnt even start the whole thing here at riot act.

kms, it’s funny, when I read the OP I was sympathetic towards you, and disgusted that the event organisers would provide a sub-standard arena for your dog, and treat you in such a manner.

Re-reading it, I still fail to see how Johnboy is taking something out of context, or making you look bad – he is merely referencing your complaints surrounding the event which many people here assume to be justified.

sorry gobbo, is that aimed at me? i know who the organisers were (i was there), and they were not happy with the conditions either and have already asked competitors for their input! in my first comment i said that whatever gripes i had werent with the competion organisers (see above). as i said they already lobby the show society but seem to get nowhere. i dont recall griping about what other clubs do or dont do, but i can tell you now that other dog associations get treated differently and thats a known fact in bizarro dog world, for whatever reason. it happens at the sydney royal too. this is despite the fact the flyball is a big crowd drawer usually (which is i think johnboys original point).

It would appear that the flyball comp at the Canberra Show was organised between the Canberra X-Factor Flyball Team of the ACT Companion Dog Club and the Show people. Contact details for the doggie peeps can be found at http://www.actcdc.org.au.

Perhaps you should contact them and advise where they got it so wrong from your perspective. It will allow them to improve for neext year.

And don’t gripe about other clubs have the ability to organise things better. That is hardly their fault. 🙂

sepi said :

I love the flyball – I also like the agility dogs too. I wish they wouldn’t put all the dog stuff way at the back of the show.

so do i:) all the dog stuff is great and we usually get big crowds but it was a lot quiter this year, and the dust was bad for spectators as well, i dont think that spot under the pine trees is the best location, in case you didnt get that already……

I love the flyball – I also like the agility dogs too. I wish they wouldn’t put all the dog stuff way at the back of the show.

Man, people really love to be cnuts for the barest excuse eh?

Maybe the flyballers can invest in a few rolls of astroturf and a packet of tent pegs, or other suitable temporary surface, to roll on and roll off when they do their thing?

I sympathise with your (entirely readable) concerns kms but it does seem the devil of these details is on the users head.

kms said :

at least on blogger i can control who gets to comment on my words, thats my point.

Well that’s no fun!

Johnboy actaully shows a lot of restraint and does not cut/chop or delete many comments at all that I have seen. Your comments are still here aren’t they?

Most bloggers also do anything they can to get their blog read… and RiaoACT has done that for you. If you don’t want it read, then don’t blog.

PS: Welcome to RiotACT. Come join in a bit more often, it’s a fun place to catch up on the latest local news and openly comment on the articles. 🙂

PS in relation to my last comment, i have already emailed johnboy himself on that, and dont want to start another argument about use of internet sources etc. sorry, i got a little unfocused there.

Welcome to the internetz KMS.

Johnboy accidentally your whole blog… :S

i will respond in kind
a) yes the dogs deserved better, all of them.
b) i can control the other hard surfaces shes on and we were not told the truth about that particular surface. i finished the doctorate a year ago, i AM knitting thanks, and my husband runs the dog, im just a team helper. as for living vicariously, what the hell would you know about me or my life?!
c) sigh. do i really need to explain the intricacies of flyball competition organisation? this WAS a legitimate comp, its been held at the show for 10 years, and every year the flyball gets treated worse and worse.
d) given the blog was written mostly for people who know me, that sentence makes sense in that context, and in relation to other posts about flyball and flyballers get treated like a lesser kind of dog sport. CF: earlier comment about agility and show dogs.
e) i didnt CHOOSE to come to riot act, i was dragged here and i either say nothing or defend myself. i am not the one who complained on riot act about the treatment of flyball at the canberra show. that, i believe, was the eminent journalist known as johnboy. i have only responded to questions/comments etc. perhaps johnboy could have done a better job of contextualising the quote of mine he used so that it would have been clearer where HE stood on the issue and you could have argued with HIM rather than me. if my friend hadnt told me what had happened the argument may or may not have continued with me knowing nothing about it and not able to defend/represent myself. in that sense, being fore-warned might have been nice.

the copyright issue has been clarified by others, and the mistake was about not giving credit, but i would also say that there is a thing called ‘spirit of the law’ designed to give some grey areas around the way in which law is interpreted. fair use might be a nice thing to hide behind legally but when do you need to consider possible harm caused? at least on blogger i can control who gets to comment on my words, thats my point.

I am torn between
a) Saying “That dog deserves better”,
b) Saying “Hard surfaces are everywhere, we’re in the middle of a drought, maybe you should go back to your knitting\Doctorate instead of living vicariously through your dog”
c) Saying “Why not do flyball at any one of the other courses around Canberra, in a legitimate competition?”
d) Pointing out how strange it is for someone who drove from Sydney to Canberra for their dog to win an interstate contest to use the phrase “what is it with the human race, that people always have to JUDGE someone else, and what they do, as not worthy somehow?”,
e) Or just saying “Harden up sunshine, welcome to RiotACT”.
So went with f) All of the above.

Jb could have asked permission\told you he was running with it, but its not like he was trying to pass it off as his own work, and isn’t Blogger under Creative Commons by default?

@Poptop: You mean copyright.

no i wasnt talking about you gardening girl. i appreciate that some people here got the point about the way volunteer exhibitors and their animals get treated. gobbo, the dew clas comes into contact with the ground as the dog approaches the box that is holding the ball. dew claws are also called ‘stop pads’ and are used by dogs like brakes, to slow them down. when they run on grass they dont get scraped. possum has been doing flyball for 2 years usually on grass, this is the first time she lost skin off her pads, and it happened to at least 3 other dogs at this comp, which is the first time any of us have had it happen. we have a member on the show society committee and she has been lobbying them for years but they just wont water it up there, its as simple as that. i know there are water restrictions but they could put us down on the main oval where the agility was if they know the track is going to be no good, especially given the speed at which some of our dogs move.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on what is the right thing to do here kms.

Others do the same to our material all the time and we have no issue with it as long as it is properly credited.

I’ve replied to your email, I’ll ask that we continue discussion of that issue there.

i dont care if the general public read what i write, i am well aware of the internet being you know, WORLD WIDE, but i have set up my blog in such a way that i dont have to read drivel comments from people i dont know. you took that control from me when you cut and pasted here. there might be no LEGAL OBLIGATION johnboy but there is such a thing as common courtesy. being a riotact overlord doesnt put you beyond needing to ASK just because its the right thing to do.

GardeningGirl9:19 am 03 Mar 09

I didn’t think my earlier post sounded at all like I thought dogs getting injured is ok.

Usually taking skin off a dew claw pad doesn’t happen by running over rough ground as the dew claw pad isn’t usually in contact with the ground. It usually happens when the dog doesn’t take a jump properly.

Did Possum miss a jump to damage herself?

Oh and the show dogs are prancing on the ground that is lease by the ACT Canine Association. The club maintains the yard. Tou seem to have a problem with that?

Perhaps the Canberra chapter of flyballers should approach EPIC about permanently leasing a piece of ground for it to keep in as good a nick as the show doggie people do. It won’t come cheap though.

kms, once again I would like to apologise for, in error, not linking to the source.

Having said that if you don’t want the general public reading your words the open internet is an unwise place to put them. There is no obligation to seek permission in advance.

Apologies again for missing the link for a few hours.

OH MY GOD (see, i can use caps). you people are amazing. not only was content lifted off my blog with no permission and no credit, and OUT OF CONTEXT, but some of you think its ok to continue to MISS THE POINT. i am pretty damn pissed at johnboy right now for starting this whole thing, but his orignal point is that the DOGS GOT INJURED. do ANY of you think thats ok? they got injured because the show society wont water the ground they are meant to run on, and dont tell us before we get there that its basically a dirt goat track. meanwhile show dogs prance around on perfectly manicured turf. i had a rant about my car being broken into as well, while it was LEGALLY parked on a side street. i didnt ask anyone to put that on here for you all to have a go at, and do you think you would have been happy about it, after you drove 400ks to watch your dog get hurt????

I’m surprised that parking on the street didn’t result in a parking ticket.

Now, I don’t think it’s fair that some entrant groups get parking permits and some don’t, but is $5 a day too much to pay for parking?

Naturally it was Canberra Bogans. You can tell by the way they break and enter.

Interstate bogans do it differently.

all technical niceties about copyright aside, it would have been nice to be asked. i dont have many readers of my blog and i am happy about that, and i dont write what i write (in whatever grammatical form) to be ripped to shreds by people with nothing better to do with their time. maybe its one of those public service things, where you look at the form rather than the content. the intent of the original ctrlc ctrl v was not to start a debate about grammar etc but rather to raise a valid point about the way in which exhibitors at the show (who do not get paid), are treated, with some being looked after and others not. focus, people.

I checked. You’re right! My bad.

In the spirit of compliance, I must at this time disclose the info is drawn from the Fair Dealing Info Sheet available on the copywrite.org.au site.

Really, johnboy? Where?

I can’t see any way to get from the article to the original blog post, surely the minimum standard acknowledgment for a website like this.

Correct, a mistake.

Fixed now.

Working far too hard.

johnboy said :

Which they have been.

Really? Where? I couldn’t find the usual hyperlink in the in the post.

Which they have been.

poptop said :

For those of a less journalistic bent, this means:
The “fair dealing” exceptions to copywrite infringement
There is no general exception for using copyright material simply because you think it is fair or because you are not making a profit. The copyright act allows you to use copyright material without permission if your use is a “fair dealing” for one of the following purposes:
• research or study;
• criticism or review;
• parody or satire;
• reporting news; or
• professional advice by a lawyer, patent attorney or trade marks attorney.

I notice you’ve left out the part that states that the author and source of the material must be acknowledged.

For those of a less journalistic bent, this means:
The “fair dealing” exceptions to copywrite infringement
There is no general exception for using copyright material simply because you think it is fair or because you are not making a profit. The copyright act allows you to use copyright material without permission if your use is a “fair dealing” for one of the following purposes:
• research or study;
• criticism or review;
• parody or satire;
• reporting news; or
• professional advice by a lawyer, patent attorney or trade marks attorney.

Bells said :

That’s from my friend’s blog. did you ask her for the text?

Fair use.

Bells said :

That’s from my friend’s blog. did you ask her for the text?

No. The World Wide Web provided her text with a magic password. ‘Ctrl C, Ctrl V’

GardeningGirl10:11 pm 02 Mar 09

Oh, I love the flyball dogs. I’m sorry the dogs were getting hurt by the poor surface. What’s the situation at EPIC with water? The roofs of those pavillions would collect a lot of water, or is it already used elsewhere on the site? I’m not a huge fan of synthetic grass but maybe for this purpose it’s the ideal solution. Can it be rolled up when not in use?
I’m sorry about the car too 🙁
(Btw I didn’t find it that hard to read either.)

bigfeet said :

Do you know what a capital letter is? Try using one to start each of your sentences. Then maybe people will actually understand what you are trying to say.

Dude it was not that hard to read. I think lacking capital letters is the least of your worries on this site.

oi, sasquatch, stop pickin’ on my e.e. cummings buddy…

i dunno if it is the lack of capitals that made it hard to follow; not that i found it that hard to follow. a bit stream of consciousness, and took a few things for granted – like the reader might know what flyball is, but it was lifted out of its original context.

PERSONALLY I FIND READING ALL CAPITALS MUCH HARDER TO COPE WITH ESPECIALLY WHEN CO-MINGLED WITH UTTER NONSENSE OR A SPRAY AND USUALLY BAD GRAMMAR AND SPELLING BUT I DUNNO WHAT DO YOU FIND WORSE CAPITALS ALL THE WAY OR NOTHING AT ALL NO CAPITALS JUST PLAIN TEXT THAT MEBBE TAKES A BIT OF READING INTO IF IT HAS BEEN LIFTED FROM ORIGINAL SOURCE?

chill out.

May have been quiet under the grandstand but try and tell a Bengal that the Zipper he can see out the window while being judged isn’t a giant cat toy!

maybe the show organisers are cat people. the cats got a nice quiet spot in the rooms under the main grandstand.

kms said :

that would be my text and no, no one asked. i stand by my comments but i want to make it clear they are aimed at the show society not the competition organisers (CDC) who try very hard to put on a good comp in difficult circumstances. quite a few dogs were injured because of the surface, which is a real shame as we love doing flyball at the canberra show. last year we were put out on the main oval because it was 10 years of flyball at the show and it was much better there. the other dog sports get much better looked after than flyball for some reason. the rest of the text etc was my personal venting about other stuff that happened this weekend, and i dont want to see people going off about what i said, given the text was used without permission. and just to clarify, i realise there are bogans everywhere. we get lots of ’em in sydney 🙂

Do you know what a capital letter is? Try using one to start each of your sentences. Then maybe people will actually understand what you are trying to say.

that would be my text and no, no one asked. i stand by my comments but i want to make it clear they are aimed at the show society not the competition organisers (CDC) who try very hard to put on a good comp in difficult circumstances. quite a few dogs were injured because of the surface, which is a real shame as we love doing flyball at the canberra show. last year we were put out on the main oval because it was 10 years of flyball at the show and it was much better there. the other dog sports get much better looked after than flyball for some reason. the rest of the text etc was my personal venting about other stuff that happened this weekend, and i dont want to see people going off about what i said, given the text was used without permission. and just to clarify, i realise there are bogans everywhere. we get lots of ’em in sydney 🙂

That’s from my friend’s blog. did you ask her for the text?

Igglepiggle said :

Is flyball the one where the dogs race in relays to get the tennis ball out of the board after jmuping the hurdles? .

Yep, thats it.

Is flyball the one where the dogs race in relays to get the tennis ball out of the board after jmuping the hurdles? If so, my toddler loves it! No good if the animals are getting hurt by substandard facilities. Although it seems the whole showground was dry and dusty and I’m not sure there would have been anywhere much better for them.

I love the flyball and always go to watch it. JB, I also have a kelpie who accomplishes very little. Actually she seems to accomplish much the same as yours in that she recently chewed a USB device.

But I have gone off topic. When I was there Saturday afternoon I heard lots of the flyballers (owners) complaining about the surface. In fact at one stage they made an announcement about an exposed pipe in the middle of the track and just asked if the dogs could be careful. I’m not sure the dogs got the announcement.

Felix the Cat7:28 pm 02 Mar 09

I’ll wait until the English translation comes out. I have no idea what that person was on about.

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