5 November 2015

Follow our lead on Uber: Barr

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Andrew Barr

Minutes after taking his first Uber ride in Canberra today, ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr called on his counterparts in other states to adopt his regulatory model for ride-sharing.

“I am calling on other leaders around the country to look at the ACT model and to put that in place across the country because it will enhance productivity, it will support innovation and it will lead to better outcomes for Australians regardless of where they leave,” he said.

Uber driver Ulla Brunnschweiler and Andrew Barr

Uber partner-driver Ulli Brunnschweiler was one of the first people to personally congratulate ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr on ensuring Canberra was the first capital city in the world to regulate ride-sharing.

“I’m proud to be a Canberran,” she said at a lakeside launch event for Uber in the territory. “This is true leadership.”

Ms Brunnschweiler said Uber driving was the perfect fit for her life because she loves driving, has the right vehicle, the right qualifications and experience for the job.

“And I can choose when to work and for how many hours.”

Uber

As of noon today, you can download the Uber app and book a rideshare in Canberra. Rival service On Tap commenced operations last night providing further competition for the capital’s taxis, though taxis will still have an exclusive role in providing rank and hail service and wheelchair accessible taxi services.

Ms Brunnschweiler is one of 100 registered Uber drivers in Canberra, with more to come as the Uber team work around the clock to complete background checks and add new drivers.

A printmaker and photographer, Ms Brunnschweiler traded in her old car for a new Mitsubishi Mirage and will be driving during the day to boost her savings.

Fellow Uber driver Peter Mackay said he would use the income to supplement his public service pension.

“I was a cab driver for five years but retired four years ago,” he said.

Mr Mackay would be be driving a silver VW Golf, “like everyone else in Canberra”, he said.

Uber Australia CEO David Rohrsheim said he was “super-excited” to be launching in Canberra that it has been a pleasure working with the ACT government to bring the service to town.

“The Chief Minister and Shane Rattenbury heard consumers, they heard 1000s of people asking for change, asking for a better way to get around the city,” he said.

“They came to understand what are the right safety mechanisms, what are the right regulations to put in place to protect consumers, and so they did, in a very fact based way.”

Prices for Uber trips would typically be 20-30 per cent cheaper than a taxi ride over the same route, he said, acknowledging however that fares do increase in peak times to encourage more Uber drivers onto the roads to meet demand.

Mr Barr said his government would continue to support this sort of innovation in Canberra.

“That is a very clear indication of the direction my government will take, wanting to be national leaders in the sharing economy, and on innovation and entrepreneurship,” he said.

 

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wildturkeycanoe said :

chewy14 said :

I think it’s unfair to pay $90 a kilo for high quality Wagyu beef steaks. I’m sure you’ll support me in petitioning the government to regulate and subsidise my choice to eat them right? How about a bottle of Grange whilst we’re at it? I mean I can buy a cask of goon for $10. How can they possibly justify charging $500+ per bottle. Outrageous.

Your comparisons make no sense. A bottle of Grange is always that much because it is high quality. It never gets cheaper due to a lack of demand. Likewise for any expensive product compared to cheap knock-offs. When you book an uber ride, you are getting the same cheap car that yesterday cost only $20 but now charges you hundreds. If the car suddenly turned into a limousine there’d be no complaints as you pay for what you get, but to have to fork out so much for the same thing but just at a different time is unscrupulous. Yes, fine, extortion wasn’t the right word.
All the supporters of the fare increases here keep saying that the patrons knew what the fare was before entering the vehicle, which I am sure was the case. However, for those saying that prior planning should have been done to avoid fare shock, do you realise that you cannot get an estimate of the fare hours before booking the ride? It is only an estimate for the particular time of the enquiry, so if I were to try and see what it would cost to come home from Skyfire, it would be impossible until I was standing at the roadside at the event at 10PM. At least with taxis you can have an idea of the cost weeks or even months in advance, but uber’s price could be anything from $20 to $500, you just cannot predict. If the surge pricing model was adopted for other industries, boy would there be some unhappy people. Just imagine your pizza cost being multiplied on busy days. Imagine ordering on line and never knowing how much it will cost to be home delivered. What if you went to fill your car with petrol and all of a sudden it went from $1.30 to $7 per litre because it was a long weekend.
In my mind, there is justification for a surge price at certain times, but the multiplication factors are way over the top and simply an unfair money grab from customers who have little alternative. When taxis go the way of the dodo and Uber has the monopoly a 9.9x surge multiplier will seem like small change and you’ll need a personal loan to get home from the pub.

Actually my examples are perfect. Who says that Grange is high quality? The market. It’s only that expensive because it is in such constant demand. The surge multiplier is constantly being attached. You used to be able to pick it up much cheaper and when it was first made it was considered poor wine and they stopped Max Shubert from making it. The values also flucuate quite a lot from year to year, it isn’t charged at a static price.

As I said, there’s plenty of alternatives for Uber, if you don’t want to take the risk of a variable fare, catch a taxi, public transport, drive yourself, have a friend drive etc, etc. You aren’t forced to use them.

And yes, I would love it if more products were charged at their true value based on supply and demand. It would allow savvy consumers to save lots of money by planning their consumption and drive efficiencies in the product delivery due to competition. It’s exactly how the market works when it’s working correctly.

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

So, who were the idiots that allowed this gouging to happen in NSW?
I am confident our leaders in the ACT won’t let it happen here – they are smarter than these Uber people, aren’t they?

What do you mean “allowed”?

This is the free market at work, the conditions are set under the terms of the Uber agreement. Usually that translates into a tax on stupidity, collected at the credit card clearing house. Stupidity carries with it the highest tax rate of any tax, unfortunately not always charged to those providing this prodigiously plentiful and readily available commodity.

Another reason why Uber should run the buses and trams in the ACT.
Fares could be structured on supply and demand and the real cost of running public transport could become exclusively a “user pays” one.

Whilst we are at it, now that we have electronic eTags, all cars can pay for the real cost of roads by usage.

I’ll happily pay for my share of the single vehicle bus or tram distributed amongst all the occupants so long as the single occupant occupying swathes of road pays for theirs.

Any problem with charging for ALL the damage caused by the vehicle as well? Why should someone, somewhere not causing the problem have to pick up the bill?

Rubyait,

I fully agree with your above post. We should have usage charges and tolls on more of our roads to drive efficient investment in transport. Particularly peak usage charges to drive that change.

wildturkeycanoe said :

A bottle of Grange is always that much because it is high quality.

…cough…cough…. No it isn’t. It’s that price due to marketing and what’s written on the label.
I don’t even know if Penfolds has had the guts to submit its mass-produced random-grape Grange to any wineshow in the last 3 decades. You can be sure many $50 bottles of wine are way better than many Grange vintages.

This is about the free market. The seller asks a price, and the buyer has the choice of whether to buy or not. The price will reach a level as dictated by supply and demand.
Demand for Grange at the prices that are being asked should be nil, but luckily for purveryors of over-priced goods and services with slick marketing strategies we have free choice in this country.
If people don’t like it, they could try North Korea. Or commonsense.

What I don’t get is, that I know Uber is supposed to fix everything and save everyone enormous amounts of money, but why didn’t all these people just get in an autonomous car?

These are all REAL solutions other than the obviously impossible to take Public Transport the government laid on for the revelers, and God Forbid!, walking!

wildturkeycanoe6:58 am 07 Jan 16

chewy14 said :

I think it’s unfair to pay $90 a kilo for high quality Wagyu beef steaks. I’m sure you’ll support me in petitioning the government to regulate and subsidise my choice to eat them right? How about a bottle of Grange whilst we’re at it? I mean I can buy a cask of goon for $10. How can they possibly justify charging $500+ per bottle. Outrageous.

Your comparisons make no sense. A bottle of Grange is always that much because it is high quality. It never gets cheaper due to a lack of demand. Likewise for any expensive product compared to cheap knock-offs. When you book an uber ride, you are getting the same cheap car that yesterday cost only $20 but now charges you hundreds. If the car suddenly turned into a limousine there’d be no complaints as you pay for what you get, but to have to fork out so much for the same thing but just at a different time is unscrupulous. Yes, fine, extortion wasn’t the right word.
All the supporters of the fare increases here keep saying that the patrons knew what the fare was before entering the vehicle, which I am sure was the case. However, for those saying that prior planning should have been done to avoid fare shock, do you realise that you cannot get an estimate of the fare hours before booking the ride? It is only an estimate for the particular time of the enquiry, so if I were to try and see what it would cost to come home from Skyfire, it would be impossible until I was standing at the roadside at the event at 10PM. At least with taxis you can have an idea of the cost weeks or even months in advance, but uber’s price could be anything from $20 to $500, you just cannot predict. If the surge pricing model was adopted for other industries, boy would there be some unhappy people. Just imagine your pizza cost being multiplied on busy days. Imagine ordering on line and never knowing how much it will cost to be home delivered. What if you went to fill your car with petrol and all of a sudden it went from $1.30 to $7 per litre because it was a long weekend.
In my mind, there is justification for a surge price at certain times, but the multiplication factors are way over the top and simply an unfair money grab from customers who have little alternative. When taxis go the way of the dodo and Uber has the monopoly a 9.9x surge multiplier will seem like small change and you’ll need a personal loan to get home from the pub.

creative_canberran6:40 pm 06 Jan 16

wildturkeycanoe said :

Emergency call out fees are not charged at up to 9.9x the usual rate, nor is any other service I can think of. Supply and demand are one thing, but imagine if your mobile call rates were bumped up 900% during Xmas, or your internet was charged similarly in the evenings and on weekends. Did McDonalds increase their 50c cones to $5.00 on NYE? Did your electricity go up 9x during peak hours? No. The only “business” that has seen fit to put a steep sliding scale on their rates is Uber.

And every hotel and restaurant in Sydney on NYE, whose rooms went from $250 to sometimes four digits.

wildturkeycanoe said :

I don’t think ripping somebody off by $700 for a 20 minute ride is anything short of extortion.

‘Extortion’ – (noun)
The practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats:

What force was used or threat made? People chose Uber when Buses, trains, taxis and other hire car services were available. If Uber wants to try this high pricing on with some users, they should be smart enough to say no and Uber will get the message. If they’re not, then all the more for Uber shareholders.

JessP said :

Dungfungus, wildturkeycanoe, chewy14, Masquara

You gents ever tried to book an air fare at the last minute?? Fares can be inflated (although they can be inflated all the time if you live in Canberra). You have a choice at that stage and you can choose to accept the fare or not.

Uber is the same from what I can see. Up front you are told what the loading is….if you don’t want to pay it, don’t use Uber.

“…..ever tried to book an air fare at the last minute…..”
In my experiences they are never inflated but usually discounted, especially if you are seeking to upgrade.
If I owned a cab/hire car and I knew I would only have drunks for customers at a particular time I would ask for a surcharge to cover the clean-up costs in case one of the passengers barfed en-route.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

So, who were the idiots that allowed this gouging to happen in NSW?
I am confident our leaders in the ACT won’t let it happen here – they are smarter than these Uber people, aren’t they?

What do you mean “allowed”?

This is the free market at work, the conditions are set under the terms of the Uber agreement. Usually that translates into a tax on stupidity, collected at the credit card clearing house. Stupidity carries with it the highest tax rate of any tax, unfortunately not always charged to those providing this prodigiously plentiful and readily available commodity.

Another reason why Uber should run the buses and trams in the ACT.
Fares could be structured on supply and demand and the real cost of running public transport could become exclusively a “user pays” one.

Whilst we are at it, now that we have electronic eTags, all cars can pay for the real cost of roads by usage.

I’ll happily pay for my share of the single vehicle bus or tram distributed amongst all the occupants so long as the single occupant occupying swathes of road pays for theirs.

Any problem with charging for ALL the damage caused by the vehicle as well? Why should someone, somewhere not causing the problem have to pick up the bill?

wildturkeycanoe said :

chewy14 said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

chewy14 said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

For a couple of hours on one night during the absolute peak, not for “a trip home on New Years Eve”.

Honestly, is it really that hard to plan your trip ahead so you didn’t need to travel at that exact time? That you could wait out the price surcharge period? And if you do have to travel at that exact time, surely pre-organising a hire car would be much cheaper.

No sympathy for people who can’t plan ahead or read what they sign up for.

How would one drive a hire car home from NYE celebrations when inebriated? Where would one park the car that is close to the city center? That is why people get Uber and taxi services home. They are not going to wait until 6:30 on new year’s day to go home after staying up all night.
I don’t think ripping somebody off by $700 for a 20 minute ride is anything short of extortion. If a supermarket was to increase the cost of alcohol on NYE or indeed any other public holiday or convenient date just because they can, there’d be a whole lot more scrutiny than what is being done to these dodgy operators.

I was talking about a chauffeured hire car, like this:
http://canberrahc.com.au/

And no one was “ripped off”, they freely agreed to a price for a service that was in extremely high demand when there was extremely low supply. It’s the free market at work.

Ever tried to get a tradie over on the holidays or for an emergency?

Think it’s reasonable that they charge an emergency call out fee? Or is that a rip off too?

Emergency call out fees are not charged at up to 9.9x the usual rate, nor is any other service I can think of. Supply and demand are one thing, but imagine if your mobile call rates were bumped up 900% during Xmas, or your internet was charged similarly in the evenings and on weekends. Did McDonalds increase their 50c cones to $5.00 on NYE? Did your electricity go up 9x during peak hours? No. The only “business” that has seen fit to put a steep sliding scale on their rates is Uber.

Emergency call out fees are charged at whatever the market will bear. I’ve paid $500 for what really is $50 worth of work before because of the need for specialist equipment.
If supply is low for any of those other services, I would expect the price to rise similarly.

The fact that electricity prices aren’t correctly charged for peak periods is the main reason that are electricity prices are so high over all. We actually pay more because they can’t charge people adequate amounts during these periods to drive effiiciencies.

You do realise that there is no one holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use Uber? They are a private company, if you don’t like them, there are plenty of alternatives.

I think it’s unfair to pay $90 a kilo for high quality Wagyu beef steaks. I’m sure you’ll support me in petitioning the government to regulate and subsidise my choice to eat them right? How about a bottle of Grange whilst we’re at it? I mean I can buy a cask of goon for $10. How can they possibly justify charging $500+ per bottle. Outrageous.

Dungfungus, wildturkeycanoe, chewy14, Masquara

You gents ever tried to book an air fare at the last minute?? Fares can be inflated (although they can be inflated all the time if you live in Canberra). You have a choice at that stage and you can choose to accept the fare or not.

Uber is the same from what I can see. Up front you are told what the loading is….if you don’t want to pay it, don’t use Uber.

wildturkeycanoe10:56 am 06 Jan 16

chewy14 said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

chewy14 said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

For a couple of hours on one night during the absolute peak, not for “a trip home on New Years Eve”.

Honestly, is it really that hard to plan your trip ahead so you didn’t need to travel at that exact time? That you could wait out the price surcharge period? And if you do have to travel at that exact time, surely pre-organising a hire car would be much cheaper.

No sympathy for people who can’t plan ahead or read what they sign up for.

How would one drive a hire car home from NYE celebrations when inebriated? Where would one park the car that is close to the city center? That is why people get Uber and taxi services home. They are not going to wait until 6:30 on new year’s day to go home after staying up all night.
I don’t think ripping somebody off by $700 for a 20 minute ride is anything short of extortion. If a supermarket was to increase the cost of alcohol on NYE or indeed any other public holiday or convenient date just because they can, there’d be a whole lot more scrutiny than what is being done to these dodgy operators.

I was talking about a chauffeured hire car, like this:
http://canberrahc.com.au/

And no one was “ripped off”, they freely agreed to a price for a service that was in extremely high demand when there was extremely low supply. It’s the free market at work.

Ever tried to get a tradie over on the holidays or for an emergency?

Think it’s reasonable that they charge an emergency call out fee? Or is that a rip off too?

Emergency call out fees are not charged at up to 9.9x the usual rate, nor is any other service I can think of. Supply and demand are one thing, but imagine if your mobile call rates were bumped up 900% during Xmas, or your internet was charged similarly in the evenings and on weekends. Did McDonalds increase their 50c cones to $5.00 on NYE? Did your electricity go up 9x during peak hours? No. The only “business” that has seen fit to put a steep sliding scale on their rates is Uber.

chewy14 said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

chewy14 said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

For a couple of hours on one night during the absolute peak, not for “a trip home on New Years Eve”.

Honestly, is it really that hard to plan your trip ahead so you didn’t need to travel at that exact time? That you could wait out the price surcharge period? And if you do have to travel at that exact time, surely pre-organising a hire car would be much cheaper.

No sympathy for people who can’t plan ahead or read what they sign up for.

How would one drive a hire car home from NYE celebrations when inebriated? Where would one park the car that is close to the city center? That is why people get Uber and taxi services home. They are not going to wait until 6:30 on new year’s day to go home after staying up all night.
I don’t think ripping somebody off by $700 for a 20 minute ride is anything short of extortion. If a supermarket was to increase the cost of alcohol on NYE or indeed any other public holiday or convenient date just because they can, there’d be a whole lot more scrutiny than what is being done to these dodgy operators.

I was talking about a chauffeured hire car, like this:
http://canberrahc.com.au/

And no one was “ripped off”, they freely agreed to a price for a service that was in extremely high demand when there was extremely low supply. It’s the free market at work.

Ever tried to get a tradie over on the holidays or for an emergency?

Think it’s reasonable that they charge an emergency call out fee? Or is that a rip off too?

Plumbers now charge triple time for weekend calls.
Mind you, they don’t work three times as hard.

wildturkeycanoe said :

chewy14 said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

For a couple of hours on one night during the absolute peak, not for “a trip home on New Years Eve”.

Honestly, is it really that hard to plan your trip ahead so you didn’t need to travel at that exact time? That you could wait out the price surcharge period? And if you do have to travel at that exact time, surely pre-organising a hire car would be much cheaper.

No sympathy for people who can’t plan ahead or read what they sign up for.

How would one drive a hire car home from NYE celebrations when inebriated? Where would one park the car that is close to the city center? That is why people get Uber and taxi services home. They are not going to wait until 6:30 on new year’s day to go home after staying up all night.
I don’t think ripping somebody off by $700 for a 20 minute ride is anything short of extortion. If a supermarket was to increase the cost of alcohol on NYE or indeed any other public holiday or convenient date just because they can, there’d be a whole lot more scrutiny than what is being done to these dodgy operators.

I was talking about a chauffeured hire car, like this:
http://canberrahc.com.au/

And no one was “ripped off”, they freely agreed to a price for a service that was in extremely high demand when there was extremely low supply. It’s the free market at work.

Ever tried to get a tradie over on the holidays or for an emergency?

Think it’s reasonable that they charge an emergency call out fee? Or is that a rip off too?

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

So, who were the idiots that allowed this gouging to happen in NSW?
I am confident our leaders in the ACT won’t let it happen here – they are smarter than these Uber people, aren’t they?

What do you mean “allowed”?

This is the free market at work, the conditions are set under the terms of the Uber agreement. Usually that translates into a tax on stupidity, collected at the credit card clearing house. Stupidity carries with it the highest tax rate of any tax, unfortunately not always charged to those providing this prodigiously plentiful and readily available commodity.

Another reason why Uber should run the buses and trams in the ACT.
Fares could be structured on supply and demand and the real cost of running public transport could become exclusively a “user pays” one.

wildturkeycanoe said :

chewy14 said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

For a couple of hours on one night during the absolute peak, not for “a trip home on New Years Eve”.

Honestly, is it really that hard to plan your trip ahead so you didn’t need to travel at that exact time? That you could wait out the price surcharge period? And if you do have to travel at that exact time, surely pre-organising a hire car would be much cheaper.

No sympathy for people who can’t plan ahead or read what they sign up for.

How would one drive a hire car home from NYE celebrations when inebriated? Where would one park the car that is close to the city center? That is why people get Uber and taxi services home. They are not going to wait until 6:30 on new year’s day to go home after staying up all night.
I don’t think ripping somebody off by $700 for a 20 minute ride is anything short of extortion. If a supermarket was to increase the cost of alcohol on NYE or indeed any other public holiday or convenient date just because they can, there’d be a whole lot more scrutiny than what is being done to these dodgy operators.

All Australian states and Territories sanction the policy of extra demerit points for traffic infringements over the Christmas / New Year “surge demand” period.
Is that extortion, gouging or what?

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

So, who were the idiots that allowed this gouging to happen in NSW?
I am confident our leaders in the ACT won’t let it happen here – they are smarter than these Uber people, aren’t they?

What do you mean “allowed”?

This is the free market at work, the conditions are set under the terms of the Uber agreement. Usually that translates into a tax on stupidity, collected at the credit card clearing house. Stupidity carries with it the highest tax rate of any tax, unfortunately not always charged to those providing this prodigiously plentiful and readily available commodity.

creative_canberran said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

If you had bothered to read beyond the headlines, you would have seen that was one trip, one of a few trips that were subject to excessive surge pricing. The users were made aware of the surge, they were just to dumb or drunk to realise. If you download an app, you should know how it works well in advance.

Around 98% of the Uber trips for were subject to 2.5x or less surge pricing, far less than the 7x in those few cases.

There are local start ups who are launching similar models to Uber, and you can bet the taxi operators themselves will launch similar functionality given their own drivers are already using Uber.

So if they gouge, the market will sort them. There will be competition, and most users did just fine on NYE.

Uber don’t have the monopoly yet. Get back to me once they’re there.

wildturkeycanoe5:58 pm 05 Jan 16

chewy14 said :

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

For a couple of hours on one night during the absolute peak, not for “a trip home on New Years Eve”.

Honestly, is it really that hard to plan your trip ahead so you didn’t need to travel at that exact time? That you could wait out the price surcharge period? And if you do have to travel at that exact time, surely pre-organising a hire car would be much cheaper.

No sympathy for people who can’t plan ahead or read what they sign up for.

How would one drive a hire car home from NYE celebrations when inebriated? Where would one park the car that is close to the city center? That is why people get Uber and taxi services home. They are not going to wait until 6:30 on new year’s day to go home after staying up all night.
I don’t think ripping somebody off by $700 for a 20 minute ride is anything short of extortion. If a supermarket was to increase the cost of alcohol on NYE or indeed any other public holiday or convenient date just because they can, there’d be a whole lot more scrutiny than what is being done to these dodgy operators.

I used Uber before Christmas from Belconnen to the Airport and found them fantastic. A new car, a friendly helpful driver and $20 cheaper than a cab. Brilliant.

On my return to Canberra airport, I considered Uber for the trip home (30 December). As soon as I used the app, I was advised that the surge price was 1.9 times the normal fare. Pretty clear immediately that Uber is not an option when there are 50 cabs waiting outside.

To not realise that surge pricing is happening – when the app tells you that there is a surge and what the multiplier is – is plain dumb.

I will be considering Uber whenever I need that type of service – and where the pricing is right I will be using it!!

SidneyReilly10:31 am 05 Jan 16

Im just wondering if those opposed to Uber are doing so simply because of emotional bias or because of the fear of change.
If you want to stick to Taxis then do so, if you want to utilse Uber then do so. Thats really the only 2 practical alternatives apart from diving yourself. Action do provide a service but I find the time it takes eg Gordon to Civic far to long when its really a 30 minute drive at most….
Canberra has long been plagued with monopolies thats why we are ripped off at the bowser and for just about everything else, as soon as some competition comes to town there seems to be an organised outcry, take Ikea as an example…. There are lots of companies and individuals not paying their fair share of tax but Ikea becomes a target…. Ok I have digressed, no lets have some competition and see where it leads and I betcha Uber prices will creep up till they are just marginally cheaper than a taxi, Uber are not in this for job satisfaction, they are in it to make money….

creative_canberran11:40 pm 04 Jan 16

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

If you had bothered to read beyond the headlines, you would have seen that was one trip, one of a few trips that were subject to excessive surge pricing. The users were made aware of the surge, they were just to dumb or drunk to realise. If you download an app, you should know how it works well in advance.

Around 98% of the Uber trips for were subject to 2.5x or less surge pricing, far less than the 7x in those few cases.

There are local start ups who are launching similar models to Uber, and you can bet the taxi operators themselves will launch similar functionality given their own drivers are already using Uber.

So if they gouge, the market will sort them. There will be competition, and most users did just fine on NYE.

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

You might also find that at the time that Uber were charging $700 to people stupid enough to agree to a 7x multiplier that taxis would have been a very long wait.

The Uber system is based on demand, if people didn’t agree to the excessive amounts the multiplier would have gone down and been more reasonable. Also before the night Uber emailed people saying that it was going to be a busy night and made suggestions of when to book your ride home.

It’s not like they didn’t warn anyone.

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

So, who were the idiots that allowed this gouging to happen in NSW?
I am confident our leaders in the ACT won’t let it happen here – they are smarter than these Uber people, aren’t they?

SidneyReilly4:17 pm 04 Jan 16

dungfungus said :

If the part-timers are going to use the same vehicle for business and private the paperwork is going to be a nightmare and it will be closely scrutinised by the ATO for sure..

Is there a difference between using one vehicle for both business and domestic needs? I know several people who use their cars for both and it simply means keeping a log which I understand Uber does elecronically. But what does Uber charge a potential driver to get them on the road as Uber drivers….
I think a Leaf or a Volt would be an ideal car, cheap to run very low maintenance…. Strewth Hotwire your meter at the box and running costs a drop to zero with only a small time at her majesties pleasure when you’re caught….

Masquara said :

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

For a couple of hours on one night during the absolute peak, not for “a trip home on New Years Eve”.

Honestly, is it really that hard to plan your trip ahead so you didn’t need to travel at that exact time? That you could wait out the price surcharge period? And if you do have to travel at that exact time, surely pre-organising a hire car would be much cheaper.

No sympathy for people who can’t plan ahead or read what they sign up for.

It turns out that Uber were charging $700 for a trip home on New Year’s Eve in Sydney. Spread that out over your taxi use over a year and I suspect the taxis will work out cheaper overall. Seriously, as soon as they have the market to themselves, don’t expect Uber to do anything other than price-gouge. I won’t be going near them.

OpenYourMind11:31 pm 03 Dec 15

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

gazket said :

If I’m stuck in traffic who’s on the train then.

All the sane, smart ones, passing the cars stuck in traffic, saving a mozza, and who have worked out that if we screw up this one there isn’t a Planet B to go to.

So why aren’t these “smart ones” taking the bus right now?

We’ve been over this a thousand times…

…because the bus is stuck in traffic too.

How do you keep struggling with all this?

That’s such a ridiculous statement. The only reason the tram gets any kind of advantage is it gets what is effectively a dedicated lane and screws over car commuters at intersections. A bus with the same lane and priority will cost fractions of the tram cost, travel faster, carry comparable numbers and be capable of actually going to most places people live. Take a look at the heat map for Uber, the passengers are travelling from all over the place – places a tram will never go.

Trams don’t offer some magical advantage over our future electric cars. Electric cars will be quieter and use renewable energy. I’ve stayed in St Kilda and the trams were frickin’ noisy. Ding, ding, ding, spark, spark. Even modern cars with IC engines are incredibly quiet. The big noise comes from trucks, motorbikes. Trams don’t remove either of these.

As for a tram passenger travelling at low cost. Hahaha. The travel is only low cost because the grand majority of ratepayers in ACT will get reamed. Even that Professor of Trams (whatever his name was), said that the tram is a terrible idea for Canberra.

Stop selling this tram nonsense.

Masquara said :

Once taxis aren’t around, how will the government make sure people without mobile phones can book transport? Such as old people. I haven’t heard anything on this issue so far …

Taxis will always be around. For that very reason. Taxis are also extremely good at serving sudden flows of passengers, such as after sporting or concert events, nightclubs closing, aircraft arriving, that sort of thing.

The Uber model struggles at such times, with drivers trying to find passengers in a crowd. The penalty of picking up the wrong passenger is dire, because it means that the wrong person is paying for the trip: the one left waiting for a car that has already left and is going to be very upset, and there will be confusion over the destination.

We’re probably not going to lose the traditional cab rank model any time soon. There will just be fewer cabs on the road.

rosscoact said :

Masquara said :

Once taxis aren’t around, how will the government make sure people without mobile phones can book transport? Such as old people. I haven’t heard anything on this issue so far …

You obviously don’t know many ‘old people’ as you call them. I cannot think of a single one of the people I know over 70 that don’t have a mobile phone. They’ve been in common use for 20 years you know, not exactly new technology. Admittedly there are some luddites who think that not using a mobile phone is a point of pride (as if).

I think you meant smart phones. Plenty of ‘old people’ have them too, less than mobiles admittedly but still in common use.

We all managed to make the transition to the metric system, go to the moon, from horses to cars, use phones instead of letters, without the ‘old people’ self-imolating, this might not be the end of the world you mob are predicting.

What will happen is that taxis will change for the better, they’ll still be there but will have better technology (oh no, think of the old people) and be customer focussed. If they don’t they will and should die out.

” If they don’t they will and should die out.”
I hope you were referring to the taxis and not old people.

Masquara said :

Once taxis aren’t around, how will the government make sure people without mobile phones can book transport? Such as old people. I haven’t heard anything on this issue so far …

You obviously don’t know many ‘old people’ as you call them. I cannot think of a single one of the people I know over 70 that don’t have a mobile phone. They’ve been in common use for 20 years you know, not exactly new technology. Admittedly there are some luddites who think that not using a mobile phone is a point of pride (as if).

I think you meant smart phones. Plenty of ‘old people’ have them too, less than mobiles admittedly but still in common use.

We all managed to make the transition to the metric system, go to the moon, from horses to cars, use phones instead of letters, without the ‘old people’ self-imolating, this might not be the end of the world you mob are predicting.

What will happen is that taxis will change for the better, they’ll still be there but will have better technology (oh no, think of the old people) and be customer focussed. If they don’t they will and should die out.

Masquara said :

Once taxis aren’t around, how will the government make sure people without mobile phones can book transport? Such as old people. I haven’t heard anything on this issue so far …

This government really doesn’t care about what our senior citizens want.
As long as they shut up and keep paying the huge rate increases everything will be tickety-boo.

Skyring said :

arescarti42 said :

I used Uber a few weeks ago to get back to the office from a meeting after having trouble getting a cab.

Clean car, pleasant driver, and it cost me about 30% less than the cab ride over. It’s a great service as far as I’m concerned, and I’ll be using it again.

Cabcharge and their lazy rent seeking monopoly can go get stuffed.

This and other comments underscore the reason for Uber’s success. A simple distinction makes it plain. When you call a taxi, your job is allocated to whatever driver is next on the queue for radio bookings in that area. He could be two suburbs away, but he gets the job because it’s his turn.

Call Uber, and the closest car is allocated the job.

Uber is structured for the convenience of the users. In every way, the model aims to do their best for the people actually digging into their pockets for the money.

Compare this to the other great public transport initiative in Canberra. The BST. Or the FST, as some call it. Bloody. Stupid. Tram.

Is that aimed at filling the needs of the user? No way. It’s a political initiative, aiming at scoring a pointless political point, it’s costing us millions already and the real pain is yet to begin. The service is expected to be slower than the existing buses.

And it’s going to *increase* private traffic. Because those using the buses will make the switch to the tram – they’ll have to, when the direct buses don’t run anymore – and people will see that those buses are now off the road and the driving is easier, and they will cheerfully fill up the gaps to the same level that drivers tolerate now.

Less people using public transport, more cars on the road. No thought for the actual users.

Uber – and their more expensive taxi cousins – reduce congestion on the roads, because each car saves several journeys, reduce the need for parking for all those cars sitting idle during the day, reduce the overall cost to the community.

Yes, in a few years we’ll have robot cars and all those drivers will be out of a job. So what? We’re already losing jobs to computers and robots hand over fist. If we try to protect any one industry from increasing automation, then we get outperformed by our foreign competitors.

One blessing. At least foreign nations can’t take over our taxi industry.

A Singaporean company already owns a fair slab of Cabcharge.

Once taxis aren’t around, how will the government make sure people without mobile phones can book transport? Such as old people. I haven’t heard anything on this issue so far …

arescarti42 said :

I used Uber a few weeks ago to get back to the office from a meeting after having trouble getting a cab.

Clean car, pleasant driver, and it cost me about 30% less than the cab ride over. It’s a great service as far as I’m concerned, and I’ll be using it again.

Cabcharge and their lazy rent seeking monopoly can go get stuffed.

This and other comments underscore the reason for Uber’s success. A simple distinction makes it plain. When you call a taxi, your job is allocated to whatever driver is next on the queue for radio bookings in that area. He could be two suburbs away, but he gets the job because it’s his turn.

Call Uber, and the closest car is allocated the job.

Uber is structured for the convenience of the users. In every way, the model aims to do their best for the people actually digging into their pockets for the money.

Compare this to the other great public transport initiative in Canberra. The BST. Or the FST, as some call it. Bloody. Stupid. Tram.

Is that aimed at filling the needs of the user? No way. It’s a political initiative, aiming at scoring a pointless political point, it’s costing us millions already and the real pain is yet to begin. The service is expected to be slower than the existing buses.

And it’s going to *increase* private traffic. Because those using the buses will make the switch to the tram – they’ll have to, when the direct buses don’t run anymore – and people will see that those buses are now off the road and the driving is easier, and they will cheerfully fill up the gaps to the same level that drivers tolerate now.

Less people using public transport, more cars on the road. No thought for the actual users.

Uber – and their more expensive taxi cousins – reduce congestion on the roads, because each car saves several journeys, reduce the need for parking for all those cars sitting idle during the day, reduce the overall cost to the community.

Yes, in a few years we’ll have robot cars and all those drivers will be out of a job. So what? We’re already losing jobs to computers and robots hand over fist. If we try to protect any one industry from increasing automation, then we get outperformed by our foreign competitors.

One blessing. At least foreign nations can’t take over our taxi industry.

I used Uber a few weeks ago to get back to the office from a meeting after having trouble getting a cab.

Clean car, pleasant driver, and it cost me about 30% less than the cab ride over. It’s a great service as far as I’m concerned, and I’ll be using it again.

Cabcharge and their lazy rent seeking monopoly can go get stuffed.

Autonomous cars are practically here, so all those Uber drivers will be out of jobs soon.

Catching taxis/uber/autonomous cars everywhere is going to cost how much? Especially with unrestrained urban sprawl ensuring that that ride is as far as possible.

rosscoact said :

Since Uber started in the ACT I’ve taken five trips in Uber cars, one in a taxi.
All but one was in a newish, clean well maintained car.
One trip was in a Civic with a small scrape mark on the side.
All were clean.
All were of sufficient size to comfortably carry the one or two of us.
None of the drivers was rude or smelly.
I’ve received incentives from Uber in the form of discounted fares.

The taxi was because there wasn’t an Uber available at midnight from the airport.

So, the sky hasn’t fallen in, the sun still comes up. Life is good.

I’ve used Uber three times in Canberra. Fast pickups (few minutes), clean, comfortable cars and pleasant chatty drivers. Cheaper than taxis. The app works really well. All good.

Being an Uber user is fine, for the moment.
It won’t take long for the Uber drivers to work out that they are not making money – they can’t when they are averaging $30 an hour gross.
I know people who are earning $30 an hour cash making pizzas. That’s a much better deal.

Since Uber started in the ACT I’ve taken five trips in Uber cars, one in a taxi.
All but one was in a newish, clean well maintained car.
One trip was in a Civic with a small scrape mark on the side.
All were clean.
All were of sufficient size to comfortably carry the one or two of us.
None of the drivers was rude or smelly.
I’ve received incentives from Uber in the form of discounted fares.

The taxi was because there wasn’t an Uber available at midnight from the airport.

So, the sky hasn’t fallen in, the sun still comes up. Life is good.

dungfungus said :

…he has also looked into the economics of being a Uber driver and reports as follows:
“One of the drivers I spoke to was pretty happy with it and seemed to have been busy, making over $300 on a Saturday night. At the same time, for my ride he had spent 15 minutes getting to me, and nearly as long taking me to my destination for an $11 fare. According to Google, Uber takes a dollar off the top and then 20% so half an hour’s work netted him $8 before tax and super.”

I can’t see how the driver made $300 a night on that calculation.

Uber (in Canberra) takes 25% off the top. There is no dollar “Safe Ride Fee” here, so the 25% is it. On Friday night Uber guaranteed drivers $30 per hour between 1600 and 0300 the next morning. So it would be quite possible to gross $300 or more for the night.

The fact that when the reporter called a car, the closest was fifteen minutes away says something about the demand that night. If he had called from Braddon, perhaps the wait time might have been in the order of fifteen seconds, rather than fifteen minutes.

In a busy period, grossing $50 or $60 an hour is commonplace.

However, Uber takes their 25% off the top, the GST on fares is another 9% (though any bonus payments would escape that), and then there’s the petrol, tyres, maintenance, share of rego and insurance, expenses. A net rate over the entire shift (before income tax) would be more like $20 an hour.

That’s taxidriver money. Not much of a living wage (and not much of a life, neither), but certainly well worth while for a retired person, or someone looking to make a few bob out of an expensive asset and spare time.

I took an Uber to the airport a couple of weeks back. The driver was pleasant, the car (a Peugeot 308) clean and non-smelly, the route efficient, and the fare cheap.

Uber has locked out the airport (for the time being), so I had to take a cab back. The driver didn’t seem to think Uber was affecting their market.

The app makes the experience more transparent and efficient. The fares are quite a bit cheaper, and the extras (water, mints, charging cables, streaming music of your choice) a significant advantage over cabs.

After my ride finished, I received an email with the trip details. Pick up and drop off points, time and distance, route on a map, driver’s name, other information. That’s well beyond what you get from Aerial!

Interesting to read John Griffith’s Low Brow News article in this weeks City News.
He has done a good analysis of Uber in Canberra titled “Uber delivers, despite smelly cars”. (classic John Boy stuff).
he has also looked into the economics of being a Uber driver and reports as follows:
“One of the drivers I spoke to was pretty happy with it and seemed to have been busy, making over $300 on a Saturday night.
At the same time, for my ride he had spent 15 minutes getting to me, and nearly as long taking me to my destination for an $11 fare.
According to Google, Uber takes a dollar off the top and then 20% so half an hour’s work netted him $8 before tax and super.”
I can’t see how the driver made $300 a night on that calculation.
It sounds like another example of “profitless prosperity”.
John also concludes that in some cases it would be more efficient and cheaper to use Uber than own/operate one’s own car.
That may be the case now but let’s see how long the Uber honeymoon lasts.

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

Uber knows who the passenger is, has their credit card details.

Yep, really useful! Violent drunks or addicts always think carefully before they do what they do.

***shrug*** If you say so. It’s one step up from taxis picking up random people on the cab line in Civic, that’s for sure.

And the vast majority of such taxi trips go very smoothly. But somehow you see alone Uber and similar as a short cut to Armageddon.

No I don’t. I just don’t see it as the magic wand that you do.

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

gazket said :

If I’m stuck in traffic who’s on the train then.

All the sane, smart ones, passing the cars stuck in traffic, saving a mozza, and who have worked out that if we screw up this one there isn’t a Planet B to go to.

So why aren’t these “smart ones” taking the bus right now?

We’ve been over this a thousand times…

…because the bus is stuck in traffic too.

How do you keep struggling with all this?

rubaiyat said :

gazket said :

If I’m stuck in traffic who’s on the train then.

All the sane, smart ones, passing the cars stuck in traffic, saving a mozza, and who have worked out that if we screw up this one there isn’t a Planet B to go to.

So why aren’t these “smart ones” taking the bus right now?

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

Uber knows who the passenger is, has their credit card details.

Yep, really useful! Violent drunks or addicts always think carefully before they do what they do.

***shrug*** If you say so. It’s one step up from taxis picking up random people on the cab line in Civic, that’s for sure.

And the vast majority of such taxi trips go very smoothly. But somehow you see alone Uber and similar as a short cut to Armageddon.

Skyring said :

Uber knows who the passenger is, has their credit card details.

Yep, really useful! Violent drunks or addicts always think carefully before they do what they do.

Who was it here that wouldn’t catch public transport in case someone breathed on them and they got a cold?

gazket said :

If I’m stuck in traffic who’s on the train then.

All the sane, smart ones, passing the cars stuck in traffic, saving a mozza, and who have worked out that if we screw up this one there isn’t a Planet B to go to.

gazket said :

I can’t see the most vulnerable people in our society fitting into a Mitsubishi Mirage or Golf ?

Why not? In my experience, the least in society are not too huge to fit into a small car.

rubaiyat said :

gazket said :

Is it only Uber ? what about other ride share / taxi apps,
Can I have a bus and do multiple pick ups. I think I can beat the new train form Gunners to Civic and back.

If you can get past the additional licensing, $450,000 for the bus, plus the running costs, and the fact that in peak hours you will be stuck in the same traffic as all the cars and be as popular as the Action buses but without the ACT government subsidy or the MyWAY card.

Go for it, put your money where your mouth is.

If I’m stuck in traffic who’s on the train then. Nobody. You finally admitted the train is a big fat white elephant. ha ha.

A toyota coaster will do the job .

There will be unforeseen dramas with Uber no doubt as this is rushed a Labor Greens policy.
With all the wankers in the Labour Greens how have they overseen Uber and disabled people .

I can’t see the most vulnerable people in our society fitting into a Mitsubishi Mirage or Golf ?
Yet Taxis are forced have vehicles that can cater to these people. Uber get to snub them.

rubaiyat said :

My sympathy goes out to taxi drivers doing a tough job for little reward whilst copping the blame for cost of the expensive government controlled taxi licences. A classic example of socialism for capitalists. CabCharge using the overcharging from a virtual monopoly to “contribute” to politicians to keep it that way, issuing a trickle of new licences to keep the price ridiculously high.

If Uber busts that wide open, it will have done us all a useful service.

Hear, hear!

And may Uber quickly attract many competitors here lest it become a new monopoly in place of the old.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

I guess if you were running a service like this late on a Saturday night, you could really clean up.

You will really be cleaning up. Your car after the drunks have assaulted you and spewed all over the inside. Hopefully they won’t have left you in the trunk of your burnt out vehicle out the back of whoop whoop.

You beat me to posting the same comment.
I used to do the graveyard shift and several times I had passengers not only spewing but (you know the rest). It meant the end of the shift and the taxi owner had to replace the seat. Not very “uber”.

I guess I set you guys up for that. 🙂

Consider that, unlike a typical taxi passenger, a user of one of these rideshare services must have created an account, registered a credit card, used a smartphone and been picked up at a specific point. Every metre of the trip has been recorded via GPS.

Anything happens of a serious nature – a frisky driver, a violent passenger, whatever – there’s a lot of evidence to grease the wheels of justice.

Not perfect, but a LOT better than a random drunk jumping into a random cab. At the very least, the driver doesn’t care if, when they get to the end of the trip, the passengers jump out into the night and run away without paying. The credit card is on file and will be charged anyway.

Same deal for someone throwing up in the car. The passenger will get a low rating from the driver – too many of those and the passenger gets booted off the app – and their credit card will be charged for the cost of professional cleaning.

Not sure how that works out in real life. A Saturday night incident might not get cleaned up until two days later, and during that time the car is off the road and the smell seeping into the pores, but again, Uber knows who the passenger is, has their credit card details, and is in a lot stronger position than a lonely cabbie with a smelly cab and no idea who his passengers were.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

I guess if you were running a service like this late on a Saturday night, you could really clean up.

You will really be cleaning up. Your car after the drunks have assaulted you and spewed all over the inside. Hopefully they won’t have left you in the trunk of your burnt out vehicle out the back of whoop whoop.

You beat me to posting the same comment.
I used to do the graveyard shift and several times I had passengers not only spewing but (you know the rest). It meant the end of the shift and the taxi owner had to replace the seat. Not very “uber”.

Well that explains the addiction to both cars and shock jocks! 😀

My sympathy goes out to taxi drivers doing a tough job for little reward whilst copping the blame for cost of the expensive government controlled taxi licences. A classic example of socialism for capitalists. CabCharge using the overcharging from a virtual monopoly to “contribute” to politicians to keep it that way, issuing a trickle of new licences to keep the price ridiculously high.

If Uber busts that wide open, it will have done us all a useful service.

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

I guess if you were running a service like this late on a Saturday night, you could really clean up.

You will really be cleaning up. Your car after the drunks have assaulted you and spewed all over the inside. Hopefully they won’t have left you in the trunk of your burnt out vehicle out the back of whoop whoop.

You beat me to posting the same comment.
I used to do the graveyard shift and several times I had passengers not only spewing but (you know the rest). It meant the end of the shift and the taxi owner had to replace the seat. Not very “uber”.

Skyring said :

I guess if you were running a service like this late on a Saturday night, you could really clean up.

You will really be cleaning up. Your car after the drunks have assaulted you and spewed all over the inside. Hopefully they won’t have left you in the trunk of your burnt out vehicle out the back of whoop whoop.

OpenYourMind said :

rubaiyat said :

gazket said :

Is it only Uber ? what about other ride share / taxi apps,
Can I have a bus and do multiple pick ups. I think I can beat the new train form Gunners to Civic and back.

If you can get past the additional licensing, $450,000 for the bus, plus the running costs, and the fact that in peak hours you will be stuck in the same traffic as all the cars and be as popular as the Action buses but without the ACT government subsidy or the MyWAY card.

Go for it, put your money where your mouth is.

Pretty sure it would still be less red ink than a tram. Rubaiyat, you seem to take the worst possible cases for cars and buses for Uber, yet your magical tram is somehow going to stay on budget and not rip us ratepayers a new one. Are you sure your salary (and ski lodge expenses) are not paid by the tram consortium.

Uber will disrupt the taxi industry and make fares cheaper and the tram look less competitive. Autonomous cars will radically shift the equation in the future too. Why cling to the old fashioned tram when we are seeing so much disruptive technology and enterprises. The tram is a long poor bet on a fast shifting paradigm, no invester (other than us poor suffering rate payers) would make such a bet.

Do the same thing for trams then, ignore the real total cost.

Light Rail is extremely cheap to run. Just ignore the capital cost as you do for cars.

All I ever do is compare LIKE with LIKE. Because you continue to ignore the real total cost of old fashioned cars which are extremely expensive to buy and run on old fashioned freeways.

Autonomous cars are a total furphy, as I have repeatedly pointed out the answer to old fashioned polluting traffic jams full of old fashioned polluting cars with only 1 person in them is NOT more old fashioned polluting cars with NO drivers in them creating even bigger old fashioned polluting traffic jams.

Just keep on ignoring the environmental cost both immediate and long term of all those old fashioned polluting cars of any description creating old fashioned polluting traffic jams on huge old fashioned expensive and polluting freeways that cut up our land and dump the idle vehicles in the middle of our cities in huge old fashioned expensive and ugly car parks.

All at the expense of us poor suffering rate payers.

Any supposed savings with Uber will not really save money nor our cities nor our planet.

All the current set of excuses that “you have to have a car anyway” equally apply to Uber, as they do to a tram. How are all those tradies going to get to Googong with all their tools using Uber? Are you seriously going to pick up and drop of your kids using Uber? Especially if you live way out in a far suburban sprawl, which is the cause of all the problems in the first place, and where Uber drivers will not want to go.

Using Uber as your transport of choice will actually make it impossible to ignore just how expensive cars are as a method of getting from A to B because you will have to pay the real cost as you go and won’t have a pile of bills at the bottom of your drawer that you can’t add up correctly.

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

Those figures are for 15 000 kilometres per year. Each additional kilometre is 15.52c extra (for the Falcon). Fuel would be both a tax deduction and a GST credit. So this makes it even more attractive a deal.

Where do you get that from?

Depending which model Falcon the RACQ figures are 16.52¢ to 18.67¢ using smuggled Qld petrol.

Thanks! Yes, I screwed up my addition and the correct figure is 16.52c. If you can spot any other errors in my sums, please point them out!

However, it’s still 83.48c profit per kilometre, and the GST on the petrol is reimbursed if you are paying GST on the earnings.

As I understand it, any vehicle in the ACT that is used for ride-sharing must be registered as a business vehicle. While the cost of registration and CTp is only about 15% higher I am wondering what is the cost of comprehensive insurance for a ride sharing vehicle is.

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

gazket said :

Is it only Uber ? what about other ride share / taxi apps,
Can I have a bus and do multiple pick ups. I think I can beat the new train form Gunners to Civic and back.

I put forward the bus question another an earlier thread about ride sharing and none of our resident experts responded.
I guess it is still being considered by the TWU but I would still like to know.

Good question. There’s a product called UberPool which covers multiple passengers and has a bunch of benefits such as being even cheaper, but felt kind of weird and problematic to one Australian trying it out: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/06/i-used-uberpool-and-im-still-not-sure-if-it-should-be-in-australia/

The obvious problem for more than a few passengers is that each extra passenger will take a few more minutes to collect. What if they aren’t ready when the bus full of people all looking at their watches arrives?

And at the other end, same deal. Drive around and drop them all off individually. It could take an hour for what would be a fifteen minute ride.

I guess if you were running a service like this late on a Saturday night, you could really clean up.

That link relates to “car pooling”. Sure, two people is “multiple passengers” but I am wondering if a small bus was used it could displace all those “off-peak” ACTION services in the suburbs when there are rarely any passengers on the bus. This would be good for Canberra as it would eliminate the biggest loss making section of ACTION’s network (apart from dead running) and provide a business opportunity for someone like me.
Somehow I can’t see Mr Barr and his TWU masters warming to the idea as it could be seen as the thin edge of the wedge to privatisation of public transport in Canberra.

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

Those figures are for 15 000 kilometres per year. Each additional kilometre is 15.52c extra (for the Falcon). Fuel would be both a tax deduction and a GST credit. So this makes it even more attractive a deal.

Where do you get that from?

Depending which model Falcon the RACQ figures are 16.52¢ to 18.67¢ using smuggled Qld petrol.

Thanks! Yes, I screwed up my addition and the correct figure is 16.52c. If you can spot any other errors in my sums, please point them out!

However, it’s still 83.48c profit per kilometre, and the GST on the petrol is reimbursed if you are paying GST on the earnings.

dungfungus said :

gazket said :

Is it only Uber ? what about other ride share / taxi apps,
Can I have a bus and do multiple pick ups. I think I can beat the new train form Gunners to Civic and back.

I put forward the bus question another an earlier thread about ride sharing and none of our resident experts responded.
I guess it is still being considered by the TWU but I would still like to know.

Good question. There’s a product called UberPool which covers multiple passengers and has a bunch of benefits such as being even cheaper, but felt kind of weird and problematic to one Australian trying it out: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/06/i-used-uberpool-and-im-still-not-sure-if-it-should-be-in-australia/

The obvious problem for more than a few passengers is that each extra passenger will take a few more minutes to collect. What if they aren’t ready when the bus full of people all looking at their watches arrives?

And at the other end, same deal. Drive around and drop them all off individually. It could take an hour for what would be a fifteen minute ride.

I guess if you were running a service like this late on a Saturday night, you could really clean up.

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

As for insurance, Uber’s been operating for some years now. Are you saying they haven’t had any accidents yet?

They don’t have accidents, their drivers do.

It is almost standard for all these Internet “enterprises” that the enterprise makes its profits clear of all the costs worn by the client.

Wait till competition heats up. Uber and the others will start discounting their operatives. Seen it happen over and over again. End result is the gold rush that never was, just a Ponzi scheme of selling it to subsequent entrants, ends up with nobody but the majors making money.

Okay. It’s not Uber having the crash. It’s the driver. Point taken. So you’re saying no Uber driver has had an accident and there’s been no test case? After how many years?

I’m not disagreeing about Uber (and AirBnB and so on…) making their money straight off the top. And arranging it so they are more or less tax-exempt.

However, the insurance is a deal-breaker. Have a crash – it may not even be your fault – and if the insurance company says, “Nah, you were carrying on a commercial operation without appropriate insurance,” then where are you? You’d have to eat the cost.

Unless Uber offers its own insurance cover than nobody but the stupid or careless would drive for them, and they wouldn’t have built up such a reputation around the world.

OpenYourMind10:49 pm 04 Nov 15

rubaiyat said :

gazket said :

Is it only Uber ? what about other ride share / taxi apps,
Can I have a bus and do multiple pick ups. I think I can beat the new train form Gunners to Civic and back.

If you can get past the additional licensing, $450,000 for the bus, plus the running costs, and the fact that in peak hours you will be stuck in the same traffic as all the cars and be as popular as the Action buses but without the ACT government subsidy or the MyWAY card.

Go for it, put your money where your mouth is.

Pretty sure it would still be less red ink than a tram. Rubaiyat, you seem to take the worst possible cases for cars and buses for Uber, yet your magical tram is somehow going to stay on budget and not rip us ratepayers a new one. Are you sure your salary (and ski lodge expenses) are not paid by the tram consortium.

Uber will disrupt the taxi industry and make fares cheaper and the tram look less competitive. Autonomous cars will radically shift the equation in the future too. Why cling to the old fashioned tram when we are seeing so much disruptive technology and enterprises. The tram is a long poor bet on a fast shifting paradigm, no invester (other than us poor suffering rate payers) would make such a bet.

Skyring said :

As for insurance, Uber’s been operating for some years now. Are you saying they haven’t had any accidents yet?

They don’t have accidents, their drivers do.

It is almost standard for all these Internet “enterprises” that the enterprise makes its profits clear of all the costs worn by the client.

Wait till competition heats up. Uber and the others will start discounting their operatives. Seen it happen over and over again. End result is the gold rush that never was, just a Ponzi scheme of selling it to subsequent entrants, ends up with nobody but the majors making money.

rubaiyat said :

Uber drivers are pretending like they are getting paid for every kilometre.

As every taxi driver knows, they often don’t get fares, spend a lot of time doing nothing except smoking at ranks and do a lot of unpaid kilometres picking up their fare and coming back after dropping them off.

After the inevitable bingle you will also have down time where you do not even have a ride and what exactly does the Uber insurance cover? I suspect it is just 3rd party passenger cover.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/28228915/insurance-doubts-for-uber-drivers/

The fact that Uber is evasive on this subject rings alarm bells for me.

NRMA claims to have an insurance that covers Uber drivers but is also vague on what extent of driving that covers and the details.

Be interesting to be the test case and go through all the legal expenses and lose.

Nobody gets paid for every kilometre. However, it’s standard taxi practice to note odometer readings at beginning and end of shift, subtract one from the other to get total mileage and divide earnings for the shift by total km to get a money earnt per kilometre figure.

It’s about a dollar per kilometre driven, going on Uber rates.

As for insurance, Uber’s been operating for some years now. Are you saying they haven’t had any accidents yet?

Uber drivers are pretending like they are getting paid for every kilometre.

As every taxi driver knows, they often don’t get fares, spend a lot of time doing nothing except smoking at ranks and do a lot of unpaid kilometres picking up their fare and coming back after dropping them off.

After the inevitable bingle you will also have down time where you do not even have a ride and what exactly does the Uber insurance cover? I suspect it is just 3rd party passenger cover.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/28228915/insurance-doubts-for-uber-drivers/

The fact that Uber is evasive on this subject rings alarm bells for me.

NRMA claims to have an insurance that covers Uber drivers but is also vague on what extent of driving that covers and the details.

Be interesting to be the test case and go through all the legal expenses and lose.

gazket said :

Is it only Uber ? what about other ride share / taxi apps,
Can I have a bus and do multiple pick ups. I think I can beat the new train form Gunners to Civic and back.

I put forward the bus question another an earlier thread about ride sharing and none of our resident experts responded.
I guess it is still being considered by the TWU but I would still like to know.

gazket said :

Is it only Uber ? what about other ride share / taxi apps,
Can I have a bus and do multiple pick ups. I think I can beat the new train form Gunners to Civic and back.

If you can get past the additional licensing, $450,000 for the bus, plus the running costs, and the fact that in peak hours you will be stuck in the same traffic as all the cars and be as popular as the Action buses but without the ACT government subsidy or the MyWAY card.

Go for it, put your money where your mouth is.

braddonmonsta7:50 pm 04 Nov 15

All the costings people have posted are completely overstated. What you have to remember is that Uber is specifically designed for people who already have a car.

EXPENSES
Insurance cost = 0 (already have it)
Servicing = 0 (already get car serviced once a year)
Tyres = 0 (good tyres last 5yrs+. Noone is going to keep Uber driving for 5 years)
Depreciation = ??? (not worth taking into account, an extra 10,000ks a year from uber isn’t going to change the value hugely)

Fuel = 12c/km (8l/100ks, $1.50/L)
Cleaning = $12 automatic wash + 2hrs vacuum per week

Even if you drive 50km in an hour (very unlikely as 99% of customers will be inner city hipsters going between Hotel Hotel and Braddon), your petrol cost will only be $6/hour.

As a guide, most Uber drivers make $30-45/hour in fares. Less fuel, cleaning and uber’s 20%, that works out to be ~$25. Amazing pay for a job where you set your own hours and have no boss.

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

I have checked and for the cars mentioned the per km costs will be 39.2¢ and 56.5¢ per km.

So what could be beneficial is the smaller cars will be cheaper to run than the standard taxi sedan or van which cost around 80¢ per kilometre. Providing a different mix is good.

I’d be interested in seeing your sources and calculations.

Its impossible to say what a per kilometre figure is without nominating the kilometres driven per year, as the standing costs and running costs are calculated differently.

The standard taxi seems to be a Falcon or a Toyota Aurion. Anything much smaller is going to struggle with four passengers and luggage.

RACQ Private-Vehicle-Expenses-0715

Mitsubishi Mirage ES 1.2L is 39.16¢ per km

Volkswagen Golf 90 TSI 1.4L Turbo is 56.51 per km

Ford FG X Falcon (LPI) 4.0L is 80.03¢ per km

Toyota Aurion AT-X 3.5L V6 is 84.55¢ per km

If you are going to make a living out of this it certainly pays to go LPG or hybrid, as taxis do.

As dungfungus and I have pointed out, these are Qld figures add the usual for Canberra. We always cost more for everything and petrol will be at least 10¢ more per litre as Qld does not have a State tax on fuel.

Those figures are for 15 000 kilometres per year. Each additional kilometre is 15.52c extra (for the Falcon). Fuel would be both a tax deduction and a GST credit. So this makes it even more attractive a deal.

Where do you get that from?

Depending which model Falcon the RACQ figures are 16.52¢ to 18.67¢ using smuggled Qld petrol.

Is it only Uber ? what about other ride share / taxi apps,
Can I have a bus and do multiple pick ups. I think I can beat the new train form Gunners to Civic and back.

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

I have checked and for the cars mentioned the per km costs will be 39.2¢ and 56.5¢ per km.

So what could be beneficial is the smaller cars will be cheaper to run than the standard taxi sedan or van which cost around 80¢ per kilometre. Providing a different mix is good.

I’d be interested in seeing your sources and calculations.

Its impossible to say what a per kilometre figure is without nominating the kilometres driven per year, as the standing costs and running costs are calculated differently.

The standard taxi seems to be a Falcon or a Toyota Aurion. Anything much smaller is going to struggle with four passengers and luggage.

RACQ Private-Vehicle-Expenses-0715

Mitsubishi Mirage ES 1.2L is 39.16¢ per km

Volkswagen Golf 90 TSI 1.4L Turbo is 56.51 per km

Ford FG X Falcon (LPI) 4.0L is 80.03¢ per km

Toyota Aurion AT-X 3.5L V6 is 84.55¢ per km

If you are going to make a living out of this it certainly pays to go LPG or hybrid, as taxis do.

As dungfungus and I have pointed out, these are Qld figures add the usual for Canberra. We always cost more for everything and petrol will be at least 10¢ more per litre as Qld does not have a State tax on fuel.

Those figures are for 15 000 kilometres per year. Each additional kilometre is 15.52c extra (for the Falcon). Fuel would be both a tax deduction and a GST credit. So this makes it even more attractive a deal.

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

I have checked and for the cars mentioned the per km costs will be 39.2¢ and 56.5¢ per km.

So what could be beneficial is the smaller cars will be cheaper to run than the standard taxi sedan or van which cost around 80¢ per kilometre. Providing a different mix is good.

I’d be interested in seeing your sources and calculations.

Its impossible to say what a per kilometre figure is without nominating the kilometres driven per year, as the standing costs and running costs are calculated differently.

The standard taxi seems to be a Falcon or a Toyota Aurion. Anything much smaller is going to struggle with four passengers and luggage.

RACQ Private-Vehicle-Expenses-0715

Mitsubishi Mirage ES 1.2L is 39.16¢ per km

Volkswagen Golf 90 TSI 1.4L Turbo is 56.51 per km

Ford FG X Falcon (LPI) 4.0L is 80.03¢ per km

Toyota Aurion AT-X 3.5L V6 is 84.55¢ per km

If you are going to make a living out of this it certainly pays to go LPG or hybrid, as taxis do.

As dungfungus and I have pointed out, these are Qld figures add the usual for Canberra. We always cost more for everything and petrol will be at least 10¢ more per litre as Qld does not have a State tax on fuel.

rubaiyat said :

I have checked and for the cars mentioned the per km costs will be 39.2¢ and 56.5¢ per km.

So what could be beneficial is the smaller cars will be cheaper to run than the standard taxi sedan or van which cost around 80¢ per kilometre. Providing a different mix is good.

I’d be interested in seeing your sources and calculations.

Its impossible to say what a per kilometre figure is without nominating the kilometres driven per year, as the standing costs and running costs are calculated differently.

The standard taxi seems to be a Falcon or a Toyota Aurion. Anything much smaller is going to struggle with four passengers and luggage.

I have checked and for the cars mentioned the per km costs will be 39.2¢ and 56.5¢ per km.

So what could be beneficial is the smaller cars will be cheaper to run than the standard taxi sedan or van which cost around 80¢ per kilometre. Providing a different mix is good.

Perhaps what we need is TukTuks? 🙂

rubaiyat said :

I warned my overenthusiastic son off this.

My job was done for me when he went to the initial meeting and got to see the who was running this and who the poor schmucks falling for it were.

Unfortunately there are a lot of desperate or very hopeful migrants thinking this is a golden opportunity, when even at its best it is not.

The very hopeful migrants are pretty much the same people driving taxis now. They don’t own cabs or taxi plates, but they drive cabs and they are doubtless doing their sums to see if it is worthwhile switching.

Skyring said :

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

I provided the links to the act government for the taxi and ridesharing fees, to the RACQ for running costs, and to Uber for their fare calculator. There’s no “blue sky” involved. The RACQ is quite detailed about their costs for depreciation, loans, insurance and so on, and the figure of 20c a kilometre for is straight out of their tables.

It is? The RACQ’s average running cost for cars is closer to 80¢ per km.

Where are you getting 20¢ from?

I think you’re confusing standing costs and running costs. Did you check the link? They are quite clearly labeled.

Total costs are more like 80c a kilometre, as you indicate, but the big standing costs are by time, not distance. The cost of interest on a loan, for example.

Cost is cost. If you are going into a business ignoring your real expenses you are headed for trouble.

rosscoact said :

Who are you guys trying to convince?

The users like me will prefer Uber while they deliver a (much) better service than taxis. Drivers will only operate if they make money in the real world, not some theoretical and possibly under-informed model. Government is regulating as is their role.

All is right with the world and the free market will continue to operate as it always has.

Spot on. Uber isn’t in the game to enrich anybody but Uber, but they have changed the rules, and the ACT government has opened the way.

Uber, Aerial, Lyft, OnTap and all the rest of them will compete on a more or less level field to get passengers from A to B.

Riders and drivers both will choose the service that best suits them.

My reading of what has happened in other cities is that Uber is more than happy to feed off drivers going slowly broke using their own car. Fares decline as the driver pool increases, but while that is happening the consumer reaps the benefit of reduced transport costs, and some car owners will decide that the cost of owning a car is too much, and the convenience of having Uber on tap, with a four minute wait time, makes up for not having a car.

The community as a whole benefits from fewer cars on the road.

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

I provided the links to the act government for the taxi and ridesharing fees, to the RACQ for running costs, and to Uber for their fare calculator. There’s no “blue sky” involved. The RACQ is quite detailed about their costs for depreciation, loans, insurance and so on, and the figure of 20c a kilometre for is straight out of their tables.

It is? The RACQ’s average running cost for cars is closer to 80¢ per km.

Where are you getting 20¢ from?

I think you’re confusing standing costs and running costs. Did you check the link? They are quite clearly labeled.

Total costs are more like 80c a kilometre, as you indicate, but the big standing costs are by time, not distance. The cost of interest on a loan, for example.

rubaiyat said :

And the tax implications of using your car for both private and commercial purposes have not been taken into account. A lot of people who will have barely made any money out of Uber, whilst taking on a whole lot of risk, will get a nasty shock at the end of the year when they get to argue this with the ATO who have set the mileage rate well below real costs for decades.

That would be a pretty good bonus if you could do that. The ATO figures for reimbursement of cost per kilometre are $0.65. I claim this and it’s GTS free as it is compensation for items that you have already paid GST on.

I reckon the tax implications are the same as if you are any small business. That you have to pay tax on your earnings (of course). You might have to pay an upfront contingency tax payment after your first year depending on how much you earn. That payment can come as a bit of a shock if you haven’t prepared for it. I’d be doing my tax monthly though. You wouldn’t have to but it would solve a lot of issues.

You can claim your expenses for the proportion of paid driving that you do. I assume that Uber would provide you with that information, if no a logbook would suffice. Expenses would include depreciation, loan interest, maintenance etc. Of course if you made a capital gain when you sold the business you’d have to pay the appropriate tax on that.

I think it will be okay for the drivers but it won’t be tax-free income.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

I provided the links to the act government for the taxi and ridesharing fees, to the RACQ for running costs, and to Uber for their fare calculator. There’s no “blue sky” involved. The RACQ is quite detailed about their costs for depreciation, loans, insurance and so on, and the figure of 20c a kilometre for is straight out of their tables.

It is? The RACQ’s average running cost for cars is closer to 80¢ per km.

Where are you getting 20¢ from?

If any Uber operators are following this thread they will be chewing their fingernails past the wrists by now.

I warned my overenthusiastic son off this.

My job was done for me when he went to the initial meeting and got to see the who was running this and who the poor schmucks falling for it were.

Unfortunately there are a lot of desperate or very hopeful migrants thinking this is a golden opportunity, when even at its best it is not.

rubaiyat said :

Skyring said :

I provided the links to the act government for the taxi and ridesharing fees, to the RACQ for running costs, and to Uber for their fare calculator. There’s no “blue sky” involved. The RACQ is quite detailed about their costs for depreciation, loans, insurance and so on, and the figure of 20c a kilometre for is straight out of their tables.

It is? The RACQ’s average running cost for cars is closer to 80¢ per km.

Where are you getting 20¢ from?

If any Uber operators are following this thread they will be chewing their fingernails past the wrists by now.

Skyring said :

I provided the links to the act government for the taxi and ridesharing fees, to the RACQ for running costs, and to Uber for their fare calculator. There’s no “blue sky” involved. The RACQ is quite detailed about their costs for depreciation, loans, insurance and so on, and the figure of 20c a kilometre for is straight out of their tables.

It is? The RACQ’s average running cost for cars is closer to 80¢ per km.

Where are you getting 20¢ from?

dungfungus said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

Your costings are very “blue sky”.
What about depreciation, insurance etc. and you running costs of 0.20c per km are simply too low.
Still, if people want to take it on then good luck to them.
If the part-timers are going to use the same vehicle for business and private the paperwork is going to be a nightmare and it will be closely scrutinised by the ATO for sure..

I provided the links to the act government for the taxi and ridesharing fees, to the RACQ for running costs, and to Uber for their fare calculator. There’s no “blue sky” involved. The RACQ is quite detailed about their costs for depreciation, loans, insurance and so on, and the figure of 20c a kilometre for is straight out of their tables.

Using vehicles for business and private use is commonplace, and I doubt that Uber and other ridesharing services come as a shock to the ATO, given the sort of information packs they have been putting out: https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/GST/In-detail/Managing-GST-in-your-business/General-guides/Providing-taxi-travel-services-through-ride-sourcing-and-your-tax-obligations/

Perhaps there is some “blue sky” in your assumptions and you could take a reality check?

I think the “Q” in RACQ stands for Queensland.
Last time I looked, petrol was significantly cheaper in that state and seriously, would you take any business guidance from the ATO?
Using a vehicle registered as a taxi for business and private use has never happened before to my knowledge. Anyone know of anyone going on holidays in the “family taxi”?
Anyone considering an Uber business should treat it as a franchise and apply all the latent downsides to operating a franchise. The biggest risk with Uber I see is that everyone and their dog will become part-time operators/drivers and there will not be enough business to go around.
Remember Amway?
As I said before, good luck to you all.

Again we agree. Even though I am amused you actually choose to credit the RACQ figures and allow for the Canberra “tax” when it suits you.

Whilst there is some merit in the new model small scale disruptive use of personal assets, like AirBnB and Uber, they actually cream most of the profits off the small inexperienced, naïve and sometimes desperate participants.

And the tax implications of using your car for both private and commercial purposes have not been taken into account. A lot of people who will have barely made any money out of Uber, whilst taking on a whole lot of risk, will get a nasty shock at the end of the year when they get to argue this with the ATO who have set the mileage rate well below real costs for decades.

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

Your costings are very “blue sky”.
What about depreciation, insurance etc. and you running costs of 0.20c per km are simply too low.
Still, if people want to take it on then good luck to them.
If the part-timers are going to use the same vehicle for business and private the paperwork is going to be a nightmare and it will be closely scrutinised by the ATO for sure..

I provided the links to the act government for the taxi and ridesharing fees, to the RACQ for running costs, and to Uber for their fare calculator. There’s no “blue sky” involved. The RACQ is quite detailed about their costs for depreciation, loans, insurance and so on, and the figure of 20c a kilometre for is straight out of their tables.

Using vehicles for business and private use is commonplace, and I doubt that Uber and other ridesharing services come as a shock to the ATO, given the sort of information packs they have been putting out: https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/GST/In-detail/Managing-GST-in-your-business/General-guides/Providing-taxi-travel-services-through-ride-sourcing-and-your-tax-obligations/

Perhaps there is some “blue sky” in your assumptions and you could take a reality check?

I think the “Q” in RACQ stands for Queensland.
Last time I looked, petrol was significantly cheaper in that state and seriously, would you take any business guidance from the ATO?
Using a vehicle registered as a taxi for business and private use has never happened before to my knowledge. Anyone know of anyone going on holidays in the “family taxi”?
Anyone considering an Uber business should treat it as a franchise and apply all the latent downsides to operating a franchise. The biggest risk with Uber I see is that everyone and their dog will become part-time operators/drivers and there will not be enough business to go around.
Remember Amway?
As I said before, good luck to you all.

Masquara said :

20c a kilometre? That won’t even cover the fuel. These are urban kilometres, not highway fuel consumption road-testing figures! More like 50c a kilometre when you include tyres, fuel, depreciation, insurance, tax and cleaning.

Who are you guys trying to convince?

The users like me will prefer Uber while they deliver a (much) better service than taxis. Drivers will only operate if they make money in the real world, not some theoretical and possibly under-informed model. Government is regulating as is their role.

All is right with the world and the free market will continue to operate as it always has.

20c a kilometre? That won’t even cover the fuel. These are urban kilometres, not highway fuel consumption road-testing figures! More like 50c a kilometre when you include tyres, fuel, depreciation, insurance, tax and cleaning.

dungfungus said :

Your costings are very “blue sky”.
What about depreciation, insurance etc. and you running costs of 0.20c per km are simply too low.
Still, if people want to take it on then good luck to them.
If the part-timers are going to use the same vehicle for business and private the paperwork is going to be a nightmare and it will be closely scrutinised by the ATO for sure..

I provided the links to the act government for the taxi and ridesharing fees, to the RACQ for running costs, and to Uber for their fare calculator. There’s no “blue sky” involved. The RACQ is quite detailed about their costs for depreciation, loans, insurance and so on, and the figure of 20c a kilometre for is straight out of their tables.

Using vehicles for business and private use is commonplace, and I doubt that Uber and other ridesharing services come as a shock to the ATO, given the sort of information packs they have been putting out: https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/GST/In-detail/Managing-GST-in-your-business/General-guides/Providing-taxi-travel-services-through-ride-sourcing-and-your-tax-obligations/

Perhaps there is some “blue sky” in your assumptions and you could take a reality check?

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

To make money from owning and operating a taxi means the asset must be used used as much as possible, in other words “full time”.
The difference with taxis is that “full-time” means all the time – that is why taxi owners employ other drivers when they are forced to sleep.
I used to drive a taxi part time (night time) and it is not easy work given the poor wages and risks.
Unless the new Uber operators are prepared to use the same business model as existing taxi operators they will quickly fade from the scene. You seem to think that Uber (who are apparently signing up mostly part-timers) will now be setting the standard. You have got it the wrong way around.

Under the new ACT legislation, taxi and rideshare government charges will be closer together. The big difference will be the annual $5000 license fee for taxis. This will cover access to taxi ranks, which rideshare vehicles won’t have. (Though given the largely unpoliced parking of private vehicles on taxi ranks, this may work out in the rideshare operator’s favour.) Costs for booking service (eg. Aerial or Uber) and vehicle owners will be pretty much equivalent: $600 application fee (for booking service), $45 police check per driver, $65 annual vehicle inspection.

Full information here: http://www.cmd.act.gov.au/policystrategic/regreform/2015-taxi-industry-innovation-reforms

My figures indicate that a Uber fare is worth about $1 per kilometre to the operator (assuming a return mileage of around 75% (sometimes the driver gets the next fare at the same location, sometimes he goes all the way back to the starting point, let’s say that for each kilometre paid by the passenger, he drives 1.75 km total). You can play with the Uber fare calculator here: http://uberestimate.com/costs.php

A Falcon or Holden costs about $250/week TCO for an annual cost of around $13 000. That’s for 15 000 km annually: http://www.racq.com.au/travel/drive_travel/running_costs/vehicle_running_costs

Each kilometre costs 20c for fuel, tyres and maintenance. So for each additional kilometre (and a taxi might do 150 000 km in a year), that’s 80c per kilometre profit (because the passenger is paying $1 a kilometre).

Right. So, worst case scenario, a booking service/owner/operator/driver all rolled into one, owning one Falcon running 15 000 km a year:
Costs:
Application fee: $600
Accreditation for one driver: $50
License fee for one driver: $100
Vehicle inspection fee: $65
Police check: $45
Driver history check: $24
TCO for one vehicle: $13 000
======================
Total: $13 884

At 15 000 km/year :
Costs: $13 884
Income: $15 000
Profit: $1 116

At 30 000 km/year
Costs: $13 884 + (15 000 x 0.2) = $16 884
Income: $30 000
Profit: $13 116

At 50 000 km/year
Costs: $13 884 + (35 000 x 0.2) = $20 884
Income: $50 000
Profit: $29 116

At 150 000 km/year
Costs: $13 884 + (135 000 x 0.2) = $40 884
Income: $150 000
Profit: $109 116

150 000 km a year is getting close to an absolute limit. Each job is about 12 kilometres average, so that’s 410 km a day or 34 jobs a day which is an average of 1.5 jobs per hour night and day. Which is pretty much what a taxi does anyway. So that’s full time work right there. Two full time jobs, actually, as one man can’t drive 24/7, and each taxi typically has two drivers.

Let’s say that our hypothetical operator wants to make his vehicle available to drivers at a 50/50 split. This is the standard split for taxis in the ACT. Uber only takes 25% but the driver is also the owner.

So break even point is about 31 000 kilometres, which is 2 600 jobs a year, which is 50 jobs a week or seven jobs a day, which is about four and a half hours worth. That sounds like part time work to me. In fact, just covering the morning peak, you’d knock over seven jobs in three hours or less total.

Anything above that is gravy for the owner. Any additional cars and the fixed costs get spread over more cars.

I can’t see your problem. Aerial could adopt the ridesharing model, supplying the cars, dropping to Uber’s rates and still make a massive profit per vehicle.

We don’t have to do things the old way. That’s the clear message.

Your costings are very “blue sky”.
What about depreciation, insurance etc. and you running costs of 0.20c per km are simply too low.
Still, if people want to take it on then good luck to them.
If the part-timers are going to use the same vehicle for business and private the paperwork is going to be a nightmare and it will be closely scrutinised by the ATO for sure..

dungfungus said :

To make money from owning and operating a taxi means the asset must be used used as much as possible, in other words “full time”.
The difference with taxis is that “full-time” means all the time – that is why taxi owners employ other drivers when they are forced to sleep.
I used to drive a taxi part time (night time) and it is not easy work given the poor wages and risks.
Unless the new Uber operators are prepared to use the same business model as existing taxi operators they will quickly fade from the scene. You seem to think that Uber (who are apparently signing up mostly part-timers) will now be setting the standard. You have got it the wrong way around.

Under the new ACT legislation, taxi and rideshare government charges will be closer together. The big difference will be the annual $5000 license fee for taxis. This will cover access to taxi ranks, which rideshare vehicles won’t have. (Though given the largely unpoliced parking of private vehicles on taxi ranks, this may work out in the rideshare operator’s favour.) Costs for booking service (eg. Aerial or Uber) and vehicle owners will be pretty much equivalent: $600 application fee (for booking service), $45 police check per driver, $65 annual vehicle inspection.

Full information here: http://www.cmd.act.gov.au/policystrategic/regreform/2015-taxi-industry-innovation-reforms

My figures indicate that a Uber fare is worth about $1 per kilometre to the operator (assuming a return mileage of around 75% (sometimes the driver gets the next fare at the same location, sometimes he goes all the way back to the starting point, let’s say that for each kilometre paid by the passenger, he drives 1.75 km total). You can play with the Uber fare calculator here: http://uberestimate.com/costs.php

A Falcon or Holden costs about $250/week TCO for an annual cost of around $13 000. That’s for 15 000 km annually: http://www.racq.com.au/travel/drive_travel/running_costs/vehicle_running_costs

Each kilometre costs 20c for fuel, tyres and maintenance. So for each additional kilometre (and a taxi might do 150 000 km in a year), that’s 80c per kilometre profit (because the passenger is paying $1 a kilometre).

Right. So, worst case scenario, a booking service/owner/operator/driver all rolled into one, owning one Falcon running 15 000 km a year:
Costs:
Application fee: $600
Accreditation for one driver: $50
License fee for one driver: $100
Vehicle inspection fee: $65
Police check: $45
Driver history check: $24
TCO for one vehicle: $13 000
======================
Total: $13 884

At 15 000 km/year :
Costs: $13 884
Income: $15 000
Profit: $1 116

At 30 000 km/year
Costs: $13 884 + (15 000 x 0.2) = $16 884
Income: $30 000
Profit: $13 116

At 50 000 km/year
Costs: $13 884 + (35 000 x 0.2) = $20 884
Income: $50 000
Profit: $29 116

At 150 000 km/year
Costs: $13 884 + (135 000 x 0.2) = $40 884
Income: $150 000
Profit: $109 116

150 000 km a year is getting close to an absolute limit. Each job is about 12 kilometres average, so that’s 410 km a day or 34 jobs a day which is an average of 1.5 jobs per hour night and day. Which is pretty much what a taxi does anyway. So that’s full time work right there. Two full time jobs, actually, as one man can’t drive 24/7, and each taxi typically has two drivers.

Let’s say that our hypothetical operator wants to make his vehicle available to drivers at a 50/50 split. This is the standard split for taxis in the ACT. Uber only takes 25% but the driver is also the owner.

So break even point is about 31 000 kilometres, which is 2 600 jobs a year, which is 50 jobs a week or seven jobs a day, which is about four and a half hours worth. That sounds like part time work to me. In fact, just covering the morning peak, you’d knock over seven jobs in three hours or less total.

Anything above that is gravy for the owner. Any additional cars and the fixed costs get spread over more cars.

I can’t see your problem. Aerial could adopt the ridesharing model, supplying the cars, dropping to Uber’s rates and still make a massive profit per vehicle.

We don’t have to do things the old way. That’s the clear message.

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

Neither of the two Uber-enthusiasts featured in the article were taxi owners.
A lot of the “cabbies” you refer are taxi drivers (not owners) and we are all in agreement that the driving bit is easy.
Also, those who have driven taxis before to earn money realize that it is not a “nine to five” job.

Of course it isn’t a regular job. Uber is aiming at part-timers seeking to make some money out of their existing car and spare time. Maybe just aim for someone to share their regular commutes.

My research indicates that someone driving full-time would make about as much as a full-time cabbie. Which isn’t a great income, and certainly nothing like the claims made by Uber. However, that’s after paying Uber’s commission, GST, income tax and expenses such as depreciation, insurance, petrol and so on, much of which would turn out to be deductions.

So why don’t you think taxis will be able to compete under the same conditions? After all, a car is just a car, and a driver is just a driver.

To make money from owning and operating a taxi means the asset must be used used as much as possible, in other words “full time”.
The difference with taxis is that “full-time” means all the time – that is why taxi owners employ other drivers when they are forced to sleep.
I used to drive a taxi part time (night time) and it is not easy work given the poor wages and risks.
Unless the new Uber operators are prepared to use the same business model as existing taxi operators they will quickly fade from the scene. You seem to think that Uber (who are apparently signing up mostly part-timers) will now be setting the standard. You have got it the wrong way around.
This Uber thing reminds me a lot of the “A Better Place” electric car dream which Canberra embraced, lost millions of dollars and where is it now?

Nilrem said :

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

Skyring said :

Rotten_berry said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

Something Japanese would be a much better idea, without the overcomplexity, costly service and parts, and questionable reliability characteristic of modern WVs. The real taxi operators like their Toyota hybrids these days.

I’ve had my Golf for six years, and never a breakdown. Service and parts seem to be on a par with any other car.

NRMA shows total cost of ownership for a Prius to be more than for a Golf: http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/buy-sell/buying-advice/car-operating-costs/top-10-cars.htm#Small cars over

Prius taxis are a minority, even after a decade on the roads in Australia. Falcons and Camrys dominate the ACT taxi fleet.

+1. Our Passat has been old faithful for eight years so far.

You must have a petrol one then because diesels with DPFs are problems.

It’s a diesel, but pre-DPF.

Lucky!

dungfungus said :

Nilrem said :

Skyring said :

Rotten_berry said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

Something Japanese would be a much better idea, without the overcomplexity, costly service and parts, and questionable reliability characteristic of modern WVs. The real taxi operators like their Toyota hybrids these days.

I’ve had my Golf for six years, and never a breakdown. Service and parts seem to be on a par with any other car.

NRMA shows total cost of ownership for a Prius to be more than for a Golf: http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/buy-sell/buying-advice/car-operating-costs/top-10-cars.htm#Small cars over

Prius taxis are a minority, even after a decade on the roads in Australia. Falcons and Camrys dominate the ACT taxi fleet.

+1. Our Passat has been old faithful for eight years so far.

You must have a petrol one then because diesels with DPFs are problems.

It’s a diesel, but pre-DPF.

dungfungus said :

Neither of the two Uber-enthusiasts featured in the article were taxi owners.
A lot of the “cabbies” you refer are taxi drivers (not owners) and we are all in agreement that the driving bit is easy.
Also, those who have driven taxis before to earn money realize that it is not a “nine to five” job.

Of course it isn’t a regular job. Uber is aiming at part-timers seeking to make some money out of their existing car and spare time. Maybe just aim for someone to share their regular commutes.

My research indicates that someone driving full-time would make about as much as a full-time cabbie. Which isn’t a great income, and certainly nothing like the claims made by Uber. However, that’s after paying Uber’s commission, GST, income tax and expenses such as depreciation, insurance, petrol and so on, much of which would turn out to be deductions.

So why don’t you think taxis will be able to compete under the same conditions? After all, a car is just a car, and a driver is just a driver.

Nilrem said :

Skyring said :

Rotten_berry said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

Something Japanese would be a much better idea, without the overcomplexity, costly service and parts, and questionable reliability characteristic of modern WVs. The real taxi operators like their Toyota hybrids these days.

I’ve had my Golf for six years, and never a breakdown. Service and parts seem to be on a par with any other car.

NRMA shows total cost of ownership for a Prius to be more than for a Golf: http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/buy-sell/buying-advice/car-operating-costs/top-10-cars.htm#Small cars over

Prius taxis are a minority, even after a decade on the roads in Australia. Falcons and Camrys dominate the ACT taxi fleet.

+1. Our Passat has been old faithful for eight years so far.

You must have a petrol one then because diesels with DPFs are problems.

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

Skyring said :

After all, there’s nothing special about a taxi; it’s just about driving a passenger from A to B. Do that simple task well and the passengers will naturally happen.

You are correct to say the simple thing with a taxi is driving it.
However, to invest money in owning a taxi and then operating it as a viable business is not easy (as most of the Uber-enthusiasts will find out).

Most of the Uber drivers are also cabbies. I guess they don’t know their business, eh?

Neither of the two Uber-enthusiasts featured in the article were taxi owners.
A lot of the “cabbies” you refer are taxi drivers (not owners) and we are all in agreement that the driving bit is easy.
Also, those who have driven taxis before to earn money realize that it is not a “nine to five” job.

Skyring said :

Rotten_berry said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

Something Japanese would be a much better idea, without the overcomplexity, costly service and parts, and questionable reliability characteristic of modern WVs. The real taxi operators like their Toyota hybrids these days.

I’ve had my Golf for six years, and never a breakdown. Service and parts seem to be on a par with any other car.

NRMA shows total cost of ownership for a Prius to be more than for a Golf: http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/buy-sell/buying-advice/car-operating-costs/top-10-cars.htm#Small cars over

Prius taxis are a minority, even after a decade on the roads in Australia. Falcons and Camrys dominate the ACT taxi fleet.

+1. Our Passat has been old faithful for eight years so far.

dungfungus said :

Skyring said :

After all, there’s nothing special about a taxi; it’s just about driving a passenger from A to B. Do that simple task well and the passengers will naturally happen.

You are correct to say the simple thing with a taxi is driving it.
However, to invest money in owning a taxi and then operating it as a viable business is not easy (as most of the Uber-enthusiasts will find out).

Most of the Uber drivers are also cabbies. I guess they don’t know their business, eh?

OpenYourMind said :

Skyring said :

Rotten_berry said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

Prius taxis are a minority, even after a decade on the roads in Australia. Falcons and Camrys dominate the ACT taxi fleet.

The further you drive round a city, the better a hybrid is in cost comparison. You even see prius taxis in 3rd world countries because of their cheapness to run.

As for VWs, just about anyone I know with a VW has had trouble, especially with gearboxes, and if yours is over 100,000k, sell now!

just looking around Canberra, I see a LOT of Golfs of various vintages. Probably about half would have mileages of around 100K.

And I see only a handful of Prius taxis.

When it comes to laying out money, it looks like the real world is yet to get in step with your sage advice.

Skyring said :

Prius taxis are a minority, even after a decade on the roads in Australia. Falcons and Camrys dominate the ACT taxi fleet.

A lot of the Camry taxis I see are hybrids.

OpenYourMind6:19 am 02 Nov 15

Skyring said :

Rotten_berry said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

Something Japanese would be a much better idea, without the overcomplexity, costly service and parts, and questionable reliability characteristic of modern WVs. The real taxi operators like their Toyota hybrids these days.

I’ve had my Golf for six years, and never a breakdown. Service and parts seem to be on a par with any other car.

NRMA shows total cost of ownership for a Prius to be more than for a Golf: http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/buy-sell/buying-advice/car-operating-costs/top-10-cars.htm#Small cars over

Prius taxis are a minority, even after a decade on the roads in Australia. Falcons and Camrys dominate the ACT taxi fleet.

The further you drive round a city, the better a hybrid is in cost comparison. You even see prius taxis in 3rd world countries because of their cheapness to run.

As for VWs, just about anyone I know with a VW has had trouble, especially with gearboxes, and if yours is over 100,000k, sell now!

Skyring said :

Masquara said :

Watch out – uber have accidentally flagged their intentions by revealing that they will be higher prices during peak hours .You’d think the ACT Government would have spotted that Uber’s plan is to put the taxis out of business, then run a monopoly where anyone needing to get to the airport on time will be price-gouged. This is no win for consumers.

Uber’s “surge” pricing is no secret. During times of high demand they increase fares with the intention of getting more drivers out on the streets. Passengers are informed about this when calling an Uber car and must agree to the higher charges in advance, so it’s hardly hidden away.

Uber is hardly the only player in the market. OnTap, Lyft, Sidecar and so on are all able to compete under the ACT government plan. The intention is to gradually level the playing field so that all cars and drivers have to pay the same fees, have the same training, health, criminal and driving checks, pass the same safety standards.

You’d think the taxi industry, with decades of experience and local knowledge behind them, not to mention established facilities for training and administration and operations, would have an advantage. They already have the advantage of taxi ranks and street hails, an established reputation.

After all, there’s nothing special about a taxi; it’s just about driving a passenger from A to B. Do that simple task well and the passengers will naturally happen.

You are correct to say the simple thing with a taxi is driving it.
However, to invest money in owning a taxi and then operating it as a viable business is not easy (as most of the Uber-enthusiasts will find out).

Masquara said :

Watch out – uber have accidentally flagged their intentions by revealing that they will be higher prices during peak hours .You’d think the ACT Government would have spotted that Uber’s plan is to put the taxis out of business, then run a monopoly where anyone needing to get to the airport on time will be price-gouged. This is no win for consumers.

Canberra doesn’t have peak “hours” – possibly some peak “minutes”.
So, who decides when it is “peak”?

rosscoact said :

Just checked my app. There’s one two minutes away (must be parked over the road) and two a few blocks away. Loving Uber.

So, which one are you choosing and where are you travelling to?

Masquara said :

Watch out – uber have accidentally flagged their intentions by revealing that they will be higher prices during peak hours .You’d think the ACT Government would have spotted that Uber’s plan is to put the taxis out of business, then run a monopoly where anyone needing to get to the airport on time will be price-gouged. This is no win for consumers.

Uber’s “surge” pricing is no secret. During times of high demand they increase fares with the intention of getting more drivers out on the streets. Passengers are informed about this when calling an Uber car and must agree to the higher charges in advance, so it’s hardly hidden away.

Uber is hardly the only player in the market. OnTap, Lyft, Sidecar and so on are all able to compete under the ACT government plan. The intention is to gradually level the playing field so that all cars and drivers have to pay the same fees, have the same training, health, criminal and driving checks, pass the same safety standards.

You’d think the taxi industry, with decades of experience and local knowledge behind them, not to mention established facilities for training and administration and operations, would have an advantage. They already have the advantage of taxi ranks and street hails, an established reputation.

After all, there’s nothing special about a taxi; it’s just about driving a passenger from A to B. Do that simple task well and the passengers will naturally happen.

Rotten_berry said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

Something Japanese would be a much better idea, without the overcomplexity, costly service and parts, and questionable reliability characteristic of modern WVs. The real taxi operators like their Toyota hybrids these days.

I’ve had my Golf for six years, and never a breakdown. Service and parts seem to be on a par with any other car.

NRMA shows total cost of ownership for a Prius to be more than for a Golf: http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-services/buy-sell/buying-advice/car-operating-costs/top-10-cars.htm#Small cars over

Prius taxis are a minority, even after a decade on the roads in Australia. Falcons and Camrys dominate the ACT taxi fleet.

Just checked my app. There’s one two minutes away (must be parked over the road) and two a few blocks away. Loving Uber.

Watch out – uber have accidentally flagged their intentions by revealing that they will be higher prices during peak hours .You’d think the ACT Government would have spotted that Uber’s plan is to put the taxis out of business, then run a monopoly where anyone needing to get to the airport on time will be price-gouged. This is no win for consumers.

dungfungus said :

The big mystery that remains is where are all the new destinations that Uber are going to take Canberrans?

No mystery. Exactly the same places that taxis took them to at a greater cost.

If you need to get to the airport and it costs $30 in a cab, Uber can do it for twenty and be there quicker.

Used Uber for the first time last night, and couldn’t rate it highly enough. While some other mates were stuck on hold with Canberra Cabs, I’d booked a driver who was 5 minutes away, saw him approach on the map, was in the car and gone. Trip from Tuggernanong to home in Belconnen cost $46 – a cab would have been closer to $70. Nice clean car, good driver, and when I got home could just hop out and go, no fussing around with payment. Will definitely use them again.

Rotten_berry11:49 am 01 Nov 15

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

Ms Brunnschweiler is also quoted in today’s CT as saying she “will not drive at night – someone else can do that”. Good luck with that approach.
It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

I reckon that Uber will make a media statement in the next few days saying that they have been swamped with the demand and more drivers are needed. $30 an hour during the off-peak hours, and far more during the night.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

Something Japanese would be a much better idea, without the overcomplexity, costly service and parts, and questionable reliability characteristic of modern WVs. The real taxi operators like their Toyota hybrids these days.

People might fret about the cost of replacing the battery pack, but that’s cheaper than replacing a veedud DSG transmission, and those break much more often.

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

Ms Brunnschweiler is also quoted in today’s CT as saying she “will not drive at night – someone else can do that”. Good luck with that approach.
It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

I reckon that Uber will make a media statement in the next few days saying that they have been swamped with the demand and more drivers are needed. $30 an hour during the off-peak hours, and far more during the night.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

As long as it is European and looks cool will be OK for Canberra.
The big mystery that remains is where are all the new destinations that Uber are going to take Canberrans?
Isn’t it a case of “all dressed up and no-where to go”?

Far more than $30 during the night? When they had a monopoly, taxi drivers weren’t earning anything like that consistently at night. Good luck trying to earn anything like $30 an hour between midnight and 7 am on weeknights.

dungfungus said :

Ms Brunnschweiler is also quoted in today’s CT as saying she “will not drive at night – someone else can do that”. Good luck with that approach.
It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

I reckon that Uber will make a media statement in the next few days saying that they have been swamped with the demand and more drivers are needed. $30 an hour during the off-peak hours, and far more during the night.

Agree that a Golf isn’t the best car for taxidriving work. Something bigger. Perhaps a Passat?

Ms Brunnschweiler is also quoted in today’s CT as saying she “will not drive at night – someone else can do that”. Good luck with that approach.
It is noted that she is offering a Mitsubishi Mirage and another person mentioned in the story has a VW Golf.
Both these cars are totally unsuitable for taxi style operation as the fledging Uber operators and their customers will discover.

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