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Greens call for an effective end to police pursuits [With poll]

By johnboy - 17 April 2012 96

police pursuits

The Greens’ Shane Rattenbury has announced the release of a discussion paper on police car chases.

Shane’s release tends to shy away from what he’s actually proposing but the discussion paper is reasonably direct:

The ACT Greens proposed to trial an updated ACT police pursuit policy to restrict chases to violent crimes only like murder, rape and armed robbery.

This discussion paper set out evidence that most chases currently are for traffic infringements or suspicion of car theft, and also that a chase poses risks to police and innocent bystanders.

Based on this evidence, we believed a better balance can be struck by only permitting chases to take place for serious violent crimes that warrant the risk.

Further evidence cited showed that other jurisdictions, such as Tasmania, are using more progressive policies and have experienced decreases in crimes. This is contrary to the often stated view that amending our police chase policy will result in an explosion in crime.

We proposed that if the trial was successful and crime levels remained steady or declined, the trial should be made permanent.

So what do you think?

When people run from police

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UPDATE 17/04/12 16:40: The Liberals’ Jeremy Hanson is not at all impressed.

What’s Your opinion?


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96 Responses to
Greens call for an effective end to police pursuits [With poll]
16
KeenGolfer 2:10 pm
17 Apr 12
#

c_c said :

Given the technology available, there are improvements that can be made without having to let the offenders go.

Care to elaborate on what these “improvements that can be made” are exactly?

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17
c_c 2:31 pm
17 Apr 12
#

KeenGolfer said :

c_c said :

Given the technology available, there are improvements that can be made without having to let the offenders go.

Care to elaborate on what these “improvements that can be made” are exactly?

Well at the less technical end police vehicles should be equipped to do PIT. It’s always been a saw point for Australian police because they don’t use the body on frame vehicles US forces use.

I could also suggest a well placed shot from a Dessert Eagle into the engine block of a fleeing car but that’s probably far fetched. Has to be said though it would be safer for both Police and suspects than the use of road strips which not only place the officer in harm’s way, but also sends the vehicle out of control at speed.

Technology does exist now to tag a car with a GPS tracker fired at the escaping vehicle. That basically enables police to maintain pursuit at a distance until the vehicle stops naturally or police box them in at a predetermined point.

We also have all this surveillance around these days so over time, it should be possible to follow them using traffic cameras and other surveillance assets.

Point isn’t to just give up and let them go, it’s to catch them smarter.

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18
Thumper 2:54 pm
17 Apr 12
#

Helicopter gunships.

Nothing more to say.

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19
KeenGolfer 2:54 pm
17 Apr 12
#

c_c said :

Well at the less technical end police vehicles should be equipped to do PIT. It’s always been a saw point for Australian police because they don’t use the body on frame vehicles US forces use.

Can’t see that ever happening in Aus, the “greenies” will say it’s too dangerous.

c_c said :

Has to be said though it would be safer for both Police and suspects than the use of road strips which not only place the officer in harm’s way, but also sends the vehicle out of control at speed.

Out of control? The tyres deflate slowly and if they keep driving, they end up driving on their rims. There’s no danger to the driver, only to the officer trying to deploy them. Deploying them effectively is difficult.

c_c said :

Technology does exist now to tag a car with a GPS tracker fired at the escaping vehicle. That basically enables police to maintain pursuit at a distance until the vehicle stops naturally or police box them in at a predetermined point.

Not allowed to box in vehicles either. GPS fired tracking would be cool, but still has issues. Is there any police force anywhere actually using this technology?

c_c said :

We also have all this surveillance around these days so over time, it should be possible to follow them using traffic cameras and other surveillance assets.

Would be awesome if the govt had the budget to fund a full time chopper for pursuits, but again that will never happen.

c_c said :

Point isn’t to just give up and let them go, it’s to catch them smarter.

The thing is that’s easy to say. Show me a police force anywhere in the world that has solved this issue, I’d love to know how they do it.

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20
Thoroughly Smashed 3:14 pm
17 Apr 12
#

c_c said :

I could also suggest a well placed shot from a Dessert Eagle into the engine block of a fleeing car but that’s probably far fetched.

Maybe they should be launching blancmanges?

I think you’ve watched Police Academy 2: Their First Assignment too many times.

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21
c_c 3:27 pm
17 Apr 12
#

Thoroughly Smashed said :

c_c said :

I could also suggest a well placed shot from a Dessert Eagle into the engine block of a fleeing car but that’s probably far fetched.

Maybe they should be launching blancmanges?

I think you’ve watched Police Academy 2: Their First Assignment too many times.

Point is even the farcical, verging on comical would make more sense than the prolonged, fuel burning exercises or dangerous, w-kyote tactics they insist on doing still. That chase in Qld last week that ended at a shopping centre reportedly went for over an hour. The longer it goes, the greater the chance for incident. The methods need to be changed to ensure either a prompt, decisive end through offensive means, or a pull back but still in control way of monitoring to bring it to an end later.

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22
Sgt.Bungers 3:44 pm
17 Apr 12
#

johnboy said :

How do you hand the ban to the driver of a stolen car?

That’s part of the can of worms… with a police chase out of the question a person driving a car that’s not registered to them, either with or without permission of the owner, will have no incentive to stop.

This could result in more people accelerating away from police even for minor indiscretions.

The result could be quite negative.

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23
HenryBG 4:18 pm
17 Apr 12
#

Thumper said :

Helicopter gunships.

Nothing more to say.

Exactly.

The driver who leads police on a pursuit is the exact equivalent of the person who opens fire with a firearm in the middle a crowded shopping centre.

They should be treated as the homocidal maniacs they are.
Even better than helicopters, the police should be given unmanned drones equipped with hellfire missiles to put a rapid end to any pursuit in order to protcet the public.

The Greens’ proposal is about *not* protecting the public, but about facilitating crime and putting yet more sticks into the spokes of law-and-order..

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24
Tooks 4:26 pm
17 Apr 12
#

c_c said :

KeenGolfer said :

c_c said :

Given the technology available, there are improvements that can be made without having to let the offenders go.

Care to elaborate on what these “improvements that can be made” are exactly?

Well at the less technical end police vehicles should be equipped to do PIT. It’s always been a saw point for Australian police because they don’t use the body on frame vehicles US forces use.

I could also suggest a well placed shot from a Dessert Eagle into the engine block of a fleeing car but that’s probably far fetched. Has to be said though it would be safer for both Police and suspects than the use of road strips which not only place the officer in harm’s way, but also sends the vehicle out of control at speed.

Technology does exist now to tag a car with a GPS tracker fired at the escaping vehicle. That basically enables police to maintain pursuit at a distance until the vehicle stops naturally or police box them in at a predetermined point.

We also have all this surveillance around these days so over time, it should be possible to follow them using traffic cameras and other surveillance assets.

Point isn’t to just give up and let them go, it’s to catch them smarter.

You still haven’t suggested how to ‘catch them smarter’. You haven’t really offered any practical solutions.

BTW, stop sticks don’t usually cause a vehicle to ‘lose control at speed’.

The ACT is too small to utilise a helicopter, the PIT maneuvre will never be allowed here. A GPS tracker which could be shot into the fleeing vehicle would be a good idea (if it exists).

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25
johnboy 4:32 pm
17 Apr 12
#

26
Tooks 4:33 pm
17 Apr 12
#

c_c said :

Thoroughly Smashed said :

c_c said :

I could also suggest a well placed shot from a Dessert Eagle into the engine block of a fleeing car but that’s probably far fetched.

Maybe they should be launching blancmanges?

I think you’ve watched Police Academy 2: Their First Assignment too many times.

Point is even the farcical, verging on comical would make more sense than the prolonged, fuel burning exercises or dangerous, w-kyote tactics they insist on doing still. That chase in Qld last week that ended at a shopping centre reportedly went for over an hour. The longer it goes, the greater the chance for incident. The methods need to be changed to ensure either a prompt, decisive end through offensive means, or a pull back but still in control way of monitoring to bring it to an end later.

That chase that ended with no one hurt and the offenders apprehended? IIRC they terminated that pursuit when it became dangerous and allowed the helicopter (ie.pulling back and monitoring from a distance) to guide the cops on the road to the mall, where they arrested the offenders.

Report this comment

27
p1 4:45 pm
17 Apr 12
#

Things effective (actually and economically) in big cities are often not going to be in Canberra. While we have a spread out city with lots of road, it is not LA, and we won’t have police air assets up 24/7 until drones become a lot cheaper.

Having all of of the traffic (and other) cams in the entire city live streaming to some kind of tactical control centre ( with giant screens on the wall controlled by weird hand gestures) is probably a more realistic approach, but still not likely to implemented (especially since the ACT Police cameras never seem to record properly…).

Report this comment

28
Jim Jones 4:47 pm
17 Apr 12
#

HenryBG said :

Thumper said :

Helicopter gunships.

Nothing more to say.

Exactly.

The driver who leads police on a pursuit is the exact equivalent of the person who opens fire with a firearm in the middle a crowded shopping centre.

They should be treated as the homocidal maniacs they are.
Even better than helicopters, the police should be given unmanned drones equipped with hellfire missiles to put a rapid end to any pursuit in order to protcet the public.

The Greens’ proposal is about *not* protecting the public, but about facilitating crime and putting yet more sticks into the spokes of law-and-order..

Yeah … because that’s what they *really* want – more criminals. It’s obvious, just read the OP, you can’t miss it.

:sigh:

Report this comment

29
c_c 4:57 pm
17 Apr 12
#

Tooks said :

That chase that ended with no one hurt and the offenders apprehended? IIRC they terminated that pursuit when it became dangerous and allowed the helicopter (ie.pulling back and monitoring from a distance) to guide the cops on the road to the mall, where they arrested the offenders.

Did you even bother to read what happened?

There were two vehicles being chased.
The Police did not terminate the pursuit, the continued it, deploying spikes to stop the coupe while chasing the other into a shopping centre carpark.
The Police did not deploy a helicopter, instead they relied on incidental reports coming through from media choppers (about three of them) already in the air right over the vehicle which showed the cars speeding through streets even with police a little way back.

The final vehicle load of offenders was only apprehended after SERT and Dog squad were sent into a busy shopping centre which had to be evacuated and locked down.

All this took 2 hours.

It lasted for a long time, went into busy areas, all the while decreasing the margin for error.

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30
Diggety 5:22 pm
17 Apr 12
#

johnboy said :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_MQ-8_Fire_Scout

Why is it light gray, when manned military helicopters tend to be dark/camo?

ROFLCOPTER.

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