Advertisement

It sure looks like we’re getting a bus lane down the Northbourne Median Strip

By 18 April 2012 72

simon corbell presser

At his press conference this lunchtime Simon Corbell was keen to stress that all the options are being considered.

But consider these two points:

    1. The press conference was held on the Northbourne Avenue median strip.

    2. The media release has these paragraphs:

    “These cost estimates by URS Australia Pty Ltd, show that Bus Rapid Transit is estimated to cost between $300m-$360 million while light rail transit would require an investment of between $700m-$860 million. These are initial estimates and require further detailed investigation,” Mr Corbell said.

    “Initial transport modelling suggests that if it was in place now, the BRT proposal would cut delays in peak travel times between Civic and Gungahlin from 16 minutes, as they currently stand, to approximately eight minutes, while the light rail option would see the delay reduced to less than 6 minutes,” he said.

Anyone want to spend an extra $400 million for a 2 minute reduction in travel time?

There’s a pretty glossy for the transport fetishists which includes this fetching concept drawing:

northbourne busway

The Greens were loitering nearby so we expect to hear from them soon:

loitering greens


UPDATE 18/04/12 13:55: The Greens have chimed in:

The ACT Greens have welcomed the positive conclusions of an ACT government study on transit options for the Civic-Gungahlin corridor, but reminded the Government about its history of repeated rhetoric and inaction on the issue.

“We are hopeful once again that this study is the first step of an active, committed pathway to light rail or bus rapid transit for Canberra’s growing population,” Greens transport spokesperson, Amanda Bresnan MLA, said today.

“But a Minister standing on Northbourne Avenue talking about light rail has a certain déjà vu from previous election years. Today’s announcements are issues we know already because they have been assessed and announced before.

“The ACT Government has made numerous announcements about the findings of public transport studies and engaged in positive rhetoric about the opportunities, only to then take the projects nowhere.

Particular fun can be had with their timeline:

Timewarp Timeline

1994: study found light rail was feasible for Canberra. (Canberra Light Rail Implementation Study)

2001: Minister Stanhope: “We will conduct a feasibility study into light rail and conduct public consultation on the findings.”

2002: Minister Corbell: “this government is interested in exploring issues around light rail”

2003: Minister Corbell: “This government is not afraid to put light rail back on the agenda. This government is not afraid to consider light rail as a potential transport mode for this city.”

2004: Consultant’s study ‘Canberra Public Transport Futures Feasibility Study’ tests and assesses the introduction of light rail or bus rapid transit on the Gungahlin to Civic routes, the benefits, and the costs. Finds it is economically feasible and beneficial.

2005: Consultant’s study on Northbourne Avenue recommends light rail on the median strip corridor; identifies millions of dollars of benefits to building rapid transit on the Northern corridor (SMEC Northbourne Avenue report).

2008: Minister Stanhope: “I am extremely pleased to be able to announce that the ACT government is moving ahead with its exploration of light rail …”

2008: Consultant’s study finds millions of dollars of benefits to light rail, and that light rail would maximise transport efficiency and accessibility and minimize environmental and social impacts of transport in Canberra (Price Waterhouse Coopers Light Rail Study)

2011: Simon Corbell: “we have put light rail firmly back on the agenda as an option along the Northbourne Avenue corridor”

2012: Most recent study repeats the benefits of rapid transit and light rail. Government again talks about implementation, consultation.

Please login to post your comments
72 Responses to
It sure looks like we’re getting a bus lane down the Northbourne Median Strip
Chop71 9:29 am
19 Apr 12
#61

Lots of hot air on the Canberra news last night. Talk of light rail, talk of international airport … blah blah. When will we get a leader who makes it happen, rather than talking about it.

Thumper 9:42 am
19 Apr 12
#62

Chop71 said :

Lots of hot air on the Canberra news last night. Talk of light rail, talk of international airport … blah blah. When will we get a leader who makes it happen, rather than talking about it.

Agreed. I doubt any of this will happen.

watto23 2:41 pm
19 Apr 12
#63

We seem to talk about how much light rail vs bus will cost, but what about the wastage of funds not getting it right the first time, eg GDE.

I’m all for a traffic independant public transport system. Buslanes don’t really work. they make up some of the time lost stopping at stops and weaving through the suburbs, but not enough. I’d pay $10 a day for a rapid public transport system that works, ie Tuggers to City in 15 minutes.
The best idea IMO was the civic belco buslane. They would work IMO, build them to support upgrades to light rail.

Also many subways around the world are actually just holes in the ground covered over the top with tress parklands and roads etc.

But yeah the half arsed attempts really annoy me.

Heavs 3:35 pm
19 Apr 12
#64

watto23 said :

We seem to talk about how much light rail vs bus will cost, but what about the wastage of funds not getting it right the first time, eg GDE.

.

Wastage of funds mostly occurs as a result of some public servant at Treasury deciding they know better than engineers/architects and directly contradicting their advice.

Pandy 8:46 pm
19 Apr 12
#65

Bramina said :

Pandy said :

The report, on a skim thru reading, does not say how many trams are needed but please correct me if I am wrong. Also correct me where in the report it says the preferred 220 passenger trams cost? From everything I have been able to find on the web on equivalent 220 passenger trams recently bought in Australia, they used to cost at least $5 million a piece, with inflation I bet they now cost more.

You can work out the number of trams needed from other information they give – the trip time (about 30 minutes) and the frequency of trams (every 10 minutes). They could scrape by with six trams. Eight trams would be reliable. And ten trams would mean they have backups in case of breakdowns.

I didn’t see where it said the preference was for 200 person trams. Even then ten 200 person trams would only cost $30 million more than ten 100 person trams.

That doesn’t explain why this project is hundreds of millions of dollars more expensive than previous government proposals.

It aint. Reflects current real world costs that are bound to rise with inflation.

And the size of the tram was referenced at pages 11 and 43.

So you are saying 10 200 passenger trams will cost $50 million? See:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dandenong-plant-to-build-50-trams-20100927-15u42.html

more like $60 2 years ago and more like $75 million in a few years time.

ka1042 10:02 pm
19 Apr 12
#66

Thumper said :

ka1042 said :

damien haas said :

Everything I post is under my own name. Its my right to be critical of any policy or action i dont agree with. Some people whine anonymously on the internet, other people seek like minded individuals and take action.

If youre going to misquote selectively, at least cut and paste properly and dont insert random words.

If you would like to attend a meeting, contact me and I will add you to the mailing list.

Its a self funded organisation. Members pay for all costs out of their own pocket. We havent received a cracker from any government body or political party. I am not a member of any political party. To my knowledge there are no commercial conflicts. We are advocating for improved public transport – its pretty hard to winkle a conspiracy out of that, but you go right ahead and keep digging.

Anything else ?

You present yourself as Chair of the peak light rail lobby group in the ACT. I have never heard of your group and your reply to my first question was so juvenile and didn’t answer my questions properly. I thought I would look at your website. The website was so vague. I was interested and asked legitimate questions – Who is this peak light rail lobby group that you represent? Who are its members who you claim come from Community Councils, all political parties, environmental groups and the general public and, Does your organisation have any clout?
And yes, everyone has the right to question government policy. I support better transport options in Canberra particularly along Northbourne Avenue, one of the most congested roads in Canberra. As a Canberran I am also interested in Canberra’s development. The Canberra Liberals offer no alternative and the Greens just think money grows on trees. Everyone complains that the government doesn’t consult. Well they are consulting, asking for community feedback before they release the final report in a couple of months time. I don’t know of any other ACT local government that has consulted they way this government has. Your post just sounded like one big whinge.

Settle down man, it’s cool that you are an ALP staffer. No-one is that peturbed.

Hey Thumper man, I think it is you that needs to calm down a bit. You’re a regular contributor to a number of these feeback sites and judging by your past posts, I think you might be on something a bit stronger than vitamins.

Just for the record, I’m not an ALP staffer or a Labor MLA even though I would proudly announce it if I was. I am however, a very proud Labor voter. For your information though, I was employed by the ACT Legislative Assembly in the early ’90s working for both major parties. Unlike the ACT Liberal Party of today led by the very confused and doey Zed Seselja, the ACT Liberals in those days were led by the very likeable and charismatic Kate Carnell. They had a vision which they were able to convey to the Labor voting citizens of the ACT.

Bramina 12:21 pm
20 Apr 12
#67

Pandy said :

Bramina said :

Pandy said :

The report, on a skim thru reading, does not say how many trams are needed but please correct me if I am wrong. Also correct me where in the report it says the preferred 220 passenger trams cost? From everything I have been able to find on the web on equivalent 220 passenger trams recently bought in Australia, they used to cost at least $5 million a piece, with inflation I bet they now cost more.

You can work out the number of trams needed from other information they give – the trip time (about 30 minutes) and the frequency of trams (every 10 minutes). They could scrape by with six trams. Eight trams would be reliable. And ten trams would mean they have backups in case of breakdowns.

I didn’t see where it said the preference was for 200 person trams. Even then ten 200 person trams would only cost $30 million more than ten 100 person trams.

That doesn’t explain why this project is hundreds of millions of dollars more expensive than previous government proposals.

It aint. Reflects current real world costs that are bound to rise with inflation.

And the size of the tram was referenced at pages 11 and 43.

So you are saying 10 200 passenger trams will cost $50 million? See:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dandenong-plant-to-build-50-trams-20100927-15u42.html

more like $60 2 years ago and more like $75 million in a few years time.

Oh I saw that. I didn’t pay much attention to it because I thought it was just describing the picture below: “The vehicle below is a similar size to what is suitable for the passenger demand expected in Canberra, it can carry up to 220 passengers.” There isn’t any analysis, they just say ‘oh yeah this looks about right’.

In fact the whole report looks amateurish and unprofessional. It is less detailed than previous reports, which are supposedly less thorough. It doesn’t even give prices. And some of the things it says are plain meaningless drivel. For example “However, stage one of the Gold Coast Rail Transit is currently being implemented, which is predicted to stimulate the current medium scenario population and employment projections of Queensland Treasury Planning and Information by 20% for the Gold Coast.”

WTF is “stimulating a current medium scenario population and employment projection?” If anyone can explain that I’ll give up right now.

Also on that page 11 I noticed they want to buy 20 7 module trams. As I outlined above, they really only need 10. Damien, you would be interested in this. Not only do they not factor in the cost of new busses they are doubling the number of trams needed.

And lastly, I got the 2 and 5 million dollar figures from and ACT Govt fact sheet that was published along side the report and project update. See link below:

http://transport.act.gov.au/studies_projects/northbourne_study.html

At the current rate it wouldn’t surprise me if the fact sheet were horrendously inaccurate. So many government documents on this matter contradict each other that you have to wonder whether this is malice or stupidity.

Bramina 12:59 pm
20 Apr 12
#68

Bramina said :

Also on that page 11 I noticed they want to buy 20 7 module trams. As I outlined above, they really only need 10. Damien, you would be interested in this. Not only do they not factor in the cost of new busses they are doubling the number of trams needed.

Correction: On second reading, I think the report meant they would build a depot for 20 trams to allow for future expansion of the network.

Still I guess it is an accounting trick. Include extra capacity in one estimate and not in the other.

HenryBG 1:25 pm
20 Apr 12
#69

ka1042 said :

I am however, a very proud Labor voter. .

Good grief….which bits are you most proud of, the 9 boatloads of asylum-seekers lost at sea since the ALP stuffed-up border control, or the hundreds of thousands of union dues spent hiring coked-up prostitutes?

Pandy 10:43 pm
20 Apr 12
#70

Bramina said :

And lastly, I got the 2 and 5 million dollar figures from and ACT Govt fact sheet that was published along side the report and project update. See link below:

http://transport.act.gov.au/studies_projects/northbourne_study.html
.

Clearly also says $10million for a typical modern light rail untis too.

Bramina 7:26 pm
23 Apr 12
#71

Pandy said :

Bramina said :

And lastly, I got the 2 and 5 million dollar figures from and ACT Govt fact sheet that was published along side the report and project update. See link below:

http://transport.act.gov.au/studies_projects/northbourne_study.html
.

Clearly also says $10million for a typical modern light rail untis too.

Who knows how much they cost? You can buy a 200 person light rail vehicle for $5 million, or a 200 person light rail vehicle for $10 million. What kind of sucker would buy the vehicle that costs twice as much and carries the same number of people?

Actually, I think the current government would.

Perhaps we just shouldn’t argue based on the information in these reports. I for one don’t trust anything it says.

damien haas 11:32 pm
10 May 12
#72

A reminder for Gungahlinites that there will be a ‘consultation’ session on the Gungahlin to Civic transport project on Friday and Saturday.

The Market Place Shopping Centre, Gungahlin near Woolworths
11am to 2pm on Friday 11 May; and
11am to 2pm on Saturday 12 May.

They will accept submissions until the 25th of May.

Follow
Follow The RiotACT
Get Premium Membership
Advertisement
The-RiotACT.com Newsletter Sign Up

Images of Canberra

Advertisement
Sponsors
RiotACT Proudly Supports
Advertisement
Copyright © 2014 Riot ACT Holdings Pty Ltd. All rights reserved.