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Parking, Parents with Prams Style

By 12 November 2012 156

pram spot

More often than not when I go to park in the Parents with Pram spots they are taken by people with no baby seat/capsule attachments on the back seat. I am used to seeing this disregard with legally designated parking like disabled spots so I don’t even blink when it comes to Parents with Prams. Yet this car today made me do a double take. The owners can’t even pretend to passing cars that there could possibly be a baby seat in it (unlike the equally guilty Hyandai Elantra that was parked in the other occupied spot).

Before I am called all sorts of charming names by trolls, in this particular instance we are talking about three modest Parents with Pram spots on the top level of the Canberra Centre carpark near Dendy. It is hardly a takeover from fascist NIMBY breeders.

And there is a purpose to these spots – they are wider than the standard spot so you can open the door enough to get a baby capsule out or an unwieldy toddler into a pram. I have learnt from experience that if all that is left are narrow spots with poles in them then its best to just drive out, as that capsule ain’t moving anywhere.

So to all those people out there who park in Parents with Prams and think they aren’t inconveniencing anyone, think again. It’s not nice manners!

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156 Responses to Parking, Parents with Prams Style
#31
devils_advocate12:37 pm, 12 Nov 12

Watson said :

… being a parent was not a disability last time I checked.

Dear Lord. It is probably sad to admit it, but – you can’t believe how gratifying it is to hear a parent say (read a parent type) this.

#32
sepi12:51 pm, 12 Nov 12

People with prams are doing well to get out of the house some days. They need all the help they can get. And they do tend to also hang around malls spending money.

Person without pram: park at the back and stroll to shops and back. Noice.

Person with pram/kids/babies trying to get back to car with couple of small bags of shopping:
Move at snail’s pace thru carpark with screaming toddler trying to sit on the ground and preschooler pushing the pram – mostly not towards other people or fast moving cars. Drop some shopping – leave it there – no hands to pick it up. Open door and shove screaming toddler in without trapping flailing body parts, go around to other passenger door, find you can’t open it wide enough as too close to next car. Instruct preschooler to mind baby in pram, while traffic streams by – no room next to car for pram. Reef toddler out of car again, put him in front seat as can’t be trusted near cars, reach across length of back seat to dump yelling baby in to capsule. Get big one in telling her to get in her seat and put on her straps, shut door, go back around to see pram rolling gently towards row of car, retrieve and put in boot. Strap/buckle oldest in, realise toddler is still in front, grab him and put in third car seat. I’ve forgotten to do up big strap on little one’s rear facing seat, put back out reaching from front seat to tighten that, go back to big one to give her the drink she’s dropped/thrown on the floor and is yelling about, confiscate drink from toddler who is feeding it to dolly (all over car) go back to boot, go back to drivers seat, get in put own seatbelt on, start car, realise parking exit ticket is in boot, get out, go back to boot, give dirty look to twit waiting impatiently for car spot, pray we get out of carpark within designated time period after paying prior to exit. Vow never to shop again.

#33
esp12:59 pm, 12 Nov 12

Pitchka said :

esp said :

So all I need is a pram in my vehicle ? I don’t actually need a kid with me, maybe just proof that I own a kid, like car registration papers perhaps. Then I can park there.

Pitchka ….. you should read this ……http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/disability-support-pension, while you walk from your carspace 4 km’s away because you would never stoop so low as to use a parents with pram carspace and because you are clearly concerned about the terrible impact obesity has on our medical / social welfare system…..

I do use parents with pram parking spaces, i am a parent with a pram. Learn how to read.

Sorry, I got stuck on the

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

Anything you said before or after that became obsolete…. or obese because it got to park so close to fast food outlets

#34
Charlie571:19 pm, 12 Nov 12

Pitchka said :

chewy14 said :

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

+1.. Totally agree. I for one see no issue with having to carry a newborn half the length of a carpark with vehicles moving all around you, people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot.. Its not as thoe it is poses any safety issues, hence why the PWP parking spots are about 5 minutes from the entrance, adjacent to a padestrian crossing..
PWP parking is about convenience, not about being considerate for those who have a genuine need for that car park, yes?

Most people will probably miss your sarcasm as that is exactly what they think the PWP parks are for (your point exactly I guess). Let me make it clear: PWP parks are not about convenience, they are about SAFETY. These parks are about providing a safe place to load/unload your children, and then about getting them off the road as soon as possible. Clearly though, convenience is a biproduct.

Children are still learning about the world including road safety. Some of them don’t have the presence of mind not to wander in front of a passing car. Maybe they dropped a ball and are just trying to pick it up.

Now, parenting is important and hopefully all parents do their utmost to protect and teach their children to be safe, but giving them a helping hand is a good thing for society to do. This is what society is for. I understand if some people out there choose not to have children, but you are part of a society that NEEDS to have children. Your part in that society is parking 20m further away from the door.

#35
Pitchka1:40 pm, 12 Nov 12

Charlie57 said :

Pitchka said :

chewy14 said :

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

+1.. Totally agree. I for one see no issue with having to carry a newborn half the length of a carpark with vehicles moving all around you, people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot.. Its not as thoe it is poses any safety issues, hence why the PWP parking spots are about 5 minutes from the entrance, adjacent to a padestrian crossing..
PWP parking is about convenience, not about being considerate for those who have a genuine need for that car park, yes?

Most people will probably miss your sarcasm as that is exactly what they think the PWP parks are for (your point exactly I guess). Let me make it clear: PWP parks are not about convenience, they are about SAFETY. These parks are about providing a safe place to load/unload your children, and then about getting them off the road as soon as possible. Clearly though, convenience is a biproduct.

Children are still learning about the world including road safety. Some of them don’t have the presence of mind not to wander in front of a passing car. Maybe they dropped a ball and are just trying to pick it up.

Now, parenting is important and hopefully all parents do their utmost to protect and teach their children to be safe, but giving them a helping hand is a good thing for society to do. This is what society is for. I understand if some people out there choose not to have children, but you are part of a society that NEEDS to have children. Your part in that society is parking 20m further away from the door.

STOP IT, YOUR MAKING SENSE!!!!

#36
TheDancingDjinn1:56 pm, 12 Nov 12

Pitchka said :

DrKoresh said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I doubt people get them just for being fat, I’ll think you’ll find that disabled people tend to be fat more often than not because, funnily enough, being disabled makes it difficult to exercise. What exactly is your problem with fat people?

I know fat people with Disabled Parking Permits.. No other issues.

Maybe you don’t now about those “other issues” because you really don’t seem like a decent person to know – from what you exhibit here anyways, I wouldn’t suggest people share anything with someone like you.

#37
Pitchka2:09 pm, 12 Nov 12

TheDancingDjinn said :

Pitchka said :

DrKoresh said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I doubt people get them just for being fat, I’ll think you’ll find that disabled people tend to be fat more often than not because, funnily enough, being disabled makes it difficult to exercise. What exactly is your problem with fat people?

I know fat people with Disabled Parking Permits.. No other issues.

Maybe you don’t now about those “other issues” because you really don’t seem like a decent person to know – from what you exhibit here anyways, I wouldn’t suggest people share anything with someone like you.

Sharing is caring, open up to me, and ill tell you what i really think…

#38
esp2:14 pm, 12 Nov 12

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

#39
Pitchka2:33 pm, 12 Nov 12

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

#40
Pork Hunt2:34 pm, 12 Nov 12

sepi said :

People with prams are doing well to get out of the house some days. They need all the help they can get. And they do tend to also hang around malls spending money.

Person without pram: park at the back and stroll to shops and back. Noice.

Person with pram/kids/babies trying to get back to car with couple of small bags of shopping:
Move at snail’s pace thru carpark with screaming toddler trying to sit on the ground and preschooler pushing the pram – mostly not towards other people or fast moving cars. Drop some shopping – leave it there – no hands to pick it up. Open door and shove screaming toddler in without trapping flailing body parts, go around to other passenger door, find you can’t open it wide enough as too close to next car. Instruct preschooler to mind baby in pram, while traffic streams by – no room next to car for pram. Reef toddler out of car again, put him in front seat as can’t be trusted near cars, reach across length of back seat to dump yelling baby in to capsule. Get big one in telling her to get in her seat and put on her straps, shut door, go back around to see pram rolling gently towards row of car, retrieve and put in boot. Strap/buckle oldest in, realise toddler is still in front, grab him and put in third car seat. I’ve forgotten to do up big strap on little one’s rear facing seat, put back out reaching from front seat to tighten that, go back to big one to give her the drink she’s dropped/thrown on the floor and is yelling about, confiscate drink from toddler who is feeding it to dolly (all over car) go back to boot, go back to drivers seat, get in put own seatbelt on, start car, realise parking exit ticket is in boot, get out, go back to boot, give dirty look to twit waiting impatiently for car spot, pray we get out of carpark within designated time period after paying prior to exit. Vow never to shop again.

If it’s that hard, don’t breed.

#41
Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd2:40 pm, 12 Nov 12

You should be greatful for parents with pram spaces. The wider parks mean I don’t have to open my door into yours and scratch or dent your car when you park to close and I need to get my kids in(this happens a lot)

#42
esp2:52 pm, 12 Nov 12

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

#43
poetix3:14 pm, 12 Nov 12

It’s just the shops pandering to their main shopping market, you know. During the day, this is often bored mothers with babies, some of whom will buy more if they have less distance to transport it. (This comment brought to you by Middle Class Marxists R Us.)

I wouldn’t park in such a space because it is hard work putting up or collapsing a pram, and in case some feral in a pink track suit unleashed her vocab at me. This happened once when I was picking my daughter up from Mr Poetix at the shops. She didn’t seem to understand that I would soon be in possession of a pram with a baby in it. I still shudder at the memory.

I didn’t specifically look for such spaces in general, but I only had one child, which is a lot easier.

#44
devils_advocate3:29 pm, 12 Nov 12

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

You should be greatful for parents with pram spaces. The wider parks mean I don’t have to open my door into yours and scratch or dent your car when you park to close and I need to get my kids in(this happens a lot)

Translation: Because I have children I am more than willing to intentionally vandalise your car, or negligently allow those under my care to do so. Accordingly, you should afford me special privileges, and be happy about doing so, even at the expense of your own convenience, so as to prevent me from engaging in vandalism.

With the quality of that logic you could be an ACT magistrate.

#45
devils_advocate3:37 pm, 12 Nov 12

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

#46
Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:47 pm, 12 Nov 12

devils_advocate said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

You should be greatful for parents with pram spaces. The wider parks mean I don’t have to open my door into yours and scratch or dent your car when you park to close and I need to get my kids in(this happens a lot)

Translation: Because I have children I am more than willing to intentionally vandalise your car, or negligently allow those under my care to do so. Accordingly, you should afford me special privileges, and be happy about doing so, even at the expense of your own convenience, so as to prevent me from engaging in vandalism.

With the quality of that logic you could be an ACT magistrate.

Sounds like you are one of those who parks too close to cars with baby seats in them and has a dinged car door. It’s not vandalism if its your own fault.

#47
NoImRight3:55 pm, 12 Nov 12

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Geebus we are talking about a couple of parking spaces being set aside to help people with a particular problem.Is that really making such a big impact on your fragile existence? How about just letting someone else have a very, very minor concession just because it will help them even if it does nothing for you?

#48
CanberraMum3:57 pm, 12 Nov 12

I love the PWP, rarely ever get one, but certainly helps when all the other car spaces are too small to actually open the door and get children in and out of the car! I cringingly remember an incident in Woden once, with unhappy toddler, and small baby in baby seat, whilst I couldn’t actually get the car door open enough to fit the baby capsule in, because a moron had parked over the line next to me. So I had to ask a complete stranger to hold/mind my by this time struggling kids, whilst I reversed the car backwards in order to open the doors to get them in….jammed up the car-park, I was in tears, the kids were in tears, and that was the end of my trips to the shops unless I could find deserted parking areas with spaces next to them….p.s – I don’t mind the walk from a PWP, and I don’t care if they are a long distance away (they don’t need to be at the front)…and it ain’t my fault the Government reg’s now require car-seats that are asteroid impact survivable, cost $550 and have to cocoon my child for the first 7 yrs….

#49
allyroger4:05 pm, 12 Nov 12

“Geebus we are talking about a couple of parking spaces being set aside to help people with a particular problem.Is that really making such a big impact on your fragile existence? How about just letting someone else have a very, very minor concession just because it will help them even if it does nothing for you?”

Amen to that.

Devils_advocate – Remember someone had to be a “breeder” to give your sorry personage existence at some point. An act that we are all eternally grateful for.

#50
esp4:47 pm, 12 Nov 12

****** WARNING — THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SARCASM *******

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

I agree with everything you said.

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Geebus we are talking about a couple of parking spaces being set aside to help people with a particular problem.Is that really making such a big impact on your fragile existence? How about just letting someone else have a very, very minor concession just because it will help them even if it does nothing for you?

Yes, the problem is people like Pitchka are allowed to breed….. and then require car spaces close to stuff so they don’t become a burden on society by engagin in vandalism…..

#51
gazket4:48 pm, 12 Nov 12

We need Man buying beer parking too.

#52
devils_advocate4:58 pm, 12 Nov 12

allyroger said :

“Geebus we are talking about a couple of parking spaces being set aside to help people with a particular problem.Is that really making such a big impact on your fragile existence? How about just letting someone else have a very, very minor concession just because it will help them even if it does nothing for you?”

Amen to that.

Devils_advocate – Remember someone had to be a “breeder” to give your sorry personage existence at some point. An act that we are all eternally grateful for.

Yes, and she did it without expecting society to bow down before the seemingly insurmountable obstacles that attended child rearing (4 of them, no less).

I always knew that breeders had developed a sense of entitlement, but in addition I now know that:
1) regardless of whether I park legally or not, it’s totally fine for someone to vandalise my vehicle so long as they have visible signs of carrying kids in their car, which I am expected to look for each time I find an available car park, and presumably either disregard that carpark or implicitly agree to having my car vandalised;
2) Even though I fully agree that disabled persons should get wider/closer carparks, the fact that I think the line should be drawn at breeders (with no other disability) makes me contemptible. Fair enough.

I look forward to the ideal society where people are assigned rankings based on ever-increasing level of granularity, determining their entitlement to a park based on their percieved level of mobility. So closest will be the disabled spots, then PWP spots. Then the spots for people who “need” to drive an SUV. Then then next 3 rows will be for people with slightly shorter legs. Then a couple of rows for unaccompanied women who feel unsafe walking through car parks. Then smokers. Then at least 10 rows of wider spaces dedicated to people that just aren’t that good at parking (this will be in high use in Canberra). Then another row for people that are a bit tired today and don’t really feel like walking that far. The another row for people that bought a whole bunch of stuff and it’s going to be a bit hard for them to carry it all to the car.

#53
gentoopenguin5:06 pm, 12 Nov 12

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

You should be greatful for parents with pram spaces. The wider parks mean I don’t have to open my door into yours and scratch or dent your car when you park to close and I need to get my kids in(this happens a lot)

+1

It astounds me how many ignorant and rude people troll this site. I wonder if you would call my child “crotch fruit” to my face or assume I drive a Japanese SUV? Worse still, people seemingly can’t read or choose not to so they can have a dig at someone they don’t know. My original post said nothing about convienence other than being able to open the door wide enough to get a newborn capsule out, which really is more of a must than a convienence…

#54
Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd5:45 pm, 12 Nov 12

devils_advocate said :

allyroger said :

“BREEDERS R GROSS GO SUFFER AND DIE U HAD KIDS NOW NEVA LAEVE UR HOUS.

Why so mutch hatred for children? Are you infertile and bitter? Can’t find a willing lover? Someone cut your grass and got pregnant? I do not understand and I have never heard some one use the term breeder in such a derogatory way. Weird. Settle down and enjoy life instead of worrying about kids.
Or you just a troll?

And lol at you whining about canberras parking when you pretty much admited you park to close to other cars.

#55
Evil_Kitten5:48 pm, 12 Nov 12

devils_advocate said :

Pitchka said :

You make a great point, i digress. From now on, spots reserved for Senior Citizens are no longer for the elderly. Here i come!!!! And if anyone says anything, ill be sure to remind them that being old does not entitle you to special parking privelages, i should not be inconvenienced.

I wasn’t aware there were spots reserved for senior citizens per se. I was aware that being old often exposes people to conditions that render them disabled (i.e. many users of disabled spots happen to be elderly) but I wasn’t aware people were getting special spots based purely on their age. I was about to ask how such a thing could be policed, but suppose people like the OP, who were checking for anchor points on the alfa, would take it upon themselves to check the ID of anyone getting out of a car that didn’t bear the requisite physical hallmarks of such advanced aged (Given I didn’t know these spots existed, I obviously don’t know what that age is).

But in any case, if an elderly person had mobility issues, this would be covered under the disability scheme.

In that basis, since mobility challenged individuals are already catered for, I agree that there should not be parking reserved for seniors who are otherwise mobile, i.e. based purely on the fact they are seniors.

The only place I have seen them is in the underground car park at Manuka under Coles. Perhaps there’s a lot of oldies around Manuka/Red Hill.

As for the PWP, I won’t park in them because I like to do the right thing, but I would suggest that if parents really need the extra room and safety that there are always alternatives, this is Canberra after all. For example, at Woden, park in the original multi story car park up the top. Half the spots are always empty. Enter via David Jones. I would say there is a similar alternative at most shopping centres. It’s not like you’re trying to park on George Street in Sydney.

#56
Whitworth Spanner5:49 pm, 12 Nov 12

gazket said :

We need Man buying beer parking too.

In response to the brainless “Baby on board” signs I am tempted to make a “Six cartons of stubbies on board. You hit, you pay” sign.

#57
schmeah5:57 pm, 12 Nov 12

I’d have more sympathy if half the parents with prams I saw getting about didn’t have a car the size of Texas .. impossible for anyone, pram or not, get in or out of while staying within the yellow lines and not hitting bollards.

I’m not calling you names but honestly, aren’t all the tax payer hand-outs enough already without a designated car space.

#58
schmeah6:09 pm, 12 Nov 12

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Excellent point … (I will digress a bit) .. while I’m not begrudging anyone the right to have children, it does bother me that when we;re told the baby bonus is for, amongst other reasons, boosting productivity via population .. why do we persist in making adoption so freaking impossible. People spend years, and thousands of dollars in chasing red tape and meeting eligibility just to be able to adopt a child from a neglectful/abusive Australian family or from a life in an orphanage overseas; wouldn’t these children make excellent citizens too if they were given every opportunity to excel in the right environment? Instead citizens who willy-nilly pump a couple out, nearly all with the best intentions of course, are given a couple of grand each time. The message seems to be take the hand-out no matter what .. the rest of you get in line with the hundreds of others who will wait years for a much wanted baby. Although you talk about ‘fully grown people’ .. maybe my point is relevant still.

Noting this isn’t a policy forum .. end spray.

#59
esp6:23 pm, 12 Nov 12

gazket said :

We need Man buying beer parking too.

Will you marry me ?

#60
devils_advocate6:54 pm, 12 Nov 12

gazket said :

We need Man buying beer parking too.

Also more drive-through bottle shops. Does the one in hawker still exist?

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