I understand that this incident is related the the bashing death at the Echo Bar last week. the story goes that some Lebonese guys from Sydney tried to run-down one of the guys involved in the bashing but hit the girl who was in the wrong plave at the wrong time. Can anyone confirm these details?????

I know nothing about this..just a comment….do thet have to be “some Lebonese guys”? Can’t they just be “some guys”???

mal, maybe the ‘some guys’ are lebanese???

Just as people should be ‘innocent until proven guilty’, the policy in Australia at the moment is that they’re ‘Lebanese until proven otherwise’.

Personally I don’t give a damn about being politically correct, but let’s be fair, the Lebanese can’t be everywhere at once.

The focus of blame when this type of tragedy happens is always landed on the Police.

Should the article read ‘Criminals run from Police and hit 21 year old female in the bus interchange.’

We need more Police on our streets and Courts that take notice to stop this type of thing happening.

Where’d the lebanese guys story come from?

G

In response to the anti-steriotype nazi’s out there;

It’s very surprising that no muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim.

Historical data speaks for itself.

I certainly know which group of people I would be looking for immediately if I was investigating a pack rape.

And you’re all thinking the same ethnic group now aren’t you ?

… Aren’t you ?

I think we’re all a little bit racist, but that’s because we’re all a bit too much ‘politically correct’ multicultural instead of being ‘tolerant but don’t break our laws or you’re fucked’ multicultural.

Yeah,

Got to agree with G on this one. When will people take responsibility for their own actions, rather than blaming someone else?

I agree with the previous headlines;

“Criminals run from Police and hit innocent female at the bus interchange.”

Hummm… I like the new headline, and I agree with Maelinar’s commoent about the kind of multicultural we actually need…

Clare, the girl hit (and the sister of a dear friend of mine) was celebrating a return from a year in the US with friends and is expected to die.

Ouch.

Did they end up catching the guys in the car?

Her name is Clea, not Clare. I don’t mean to be pedantic but if these are to be her last few days of this world then at least let her be known by her real name. I wish her luck.

I’m a bit appalled by the comments that are anti multiculturalism to be honest. And the stereotyping. But hey, thanks for keeping me in a job!

I’m sick of all this PC shit…I call a spade a spade! It’s like this crap that you can’t describe someone as a Pacific Islander or as an Aborginal if they commit a crime.

Well it depends if their ethnic origin actually has any bearing on the crime committed. Otherwise why add the detail?

There is a perception (unbacked by any research I’m aware of) that red-heads are over represented in bar fights. Should ever drunken brawl make mention of the hair colour of the brawlers?

Agreed JB, but if the police are trying to publicise an offender’s visual description for the populace than these ‘un-PC labels’ may allow for a greater likelihood of identifying criminals.

Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

The vexing part about lebo-bashing is that they visualy don’t differ much from most mediterranean and/or middle eastern folks. Why not just say ‘wogs’, or is that too confronting as well?

C’mon, we’re all thinking it. If we can’t say it here where can we?

Don’t get me wrong LG, I don’t mind multiculturalism.

I don’t like people who have that many hangups about their previous country that they have to import their ‘authentic’ foods because … well I don’t know why they do it, perhaps you could insert why…

I’m appalled by those who ‘gang’ up into groups of similar culture (lebanese, neo-nazi, muslim etc) and attempt to push their ideal onto others, but then again I’m equally appalled at christians for doing that as well. It doesn’t surface because we generally don’t talk about those topics.

I’m very curious why people want to come live in Australia and then insist on maintaining ‘their’ way of life, to be honest, if that’s the way they want to live, perhaps it would be better if they moved to the country that supports it.

And although I was born in Australia, I was brought up overseas. I’m as multicultural as you can get. For a white guy at least…

Unfortunately I see on the news when steriotyped groups get themselves in the shit, by drugging and pack raping, by putting axes through heads, etc etc, and I consider that people have problems.

The problem is everybody isn’t like me. I go to the pub and get pissed, no matter what country I am in. I drink with anybody who will listen to me ranting, and am sociable to everybody I meet.

The fact that I don’t like you will definetly not be because of your skin colour or ethnic background. I don’t make blind assumptions of people, although I will be quick to steriotype people into my own categorical internal system.

That’s because I am an intelligent person who has made a habit of learning other peoples custom and demeanour.

If I find out you take time off work exceptionally just to catch Jerry Springer on Foxtel, I can pretty much sum you up quite quickly.

(you is in the third BTW, I’m not directing this at LG at all)

Frankly, at the moment I’m supportive of reversing citizenship. That’s because unless you can tell somebody that their actions can have extremely dire results, they don’t give a fuck.

Vanstone is just the sword the government needs to be weilding at the moment, not to hinder people who are genuine refugees, but to decline those people who we don’t want in Australia access.

I can see this conversation going quickly to the anti-detention critics, I would just like to say right now, that I have worked within groups, and have friends who work within immigration, who have seen refugees destroying their documentation.

They destroy their documentation so that it will be harder for the authorities to establish where they have both come from, and their past that they are perhaps escaping from. Because we don’t want to accept into our country people who are on the run for human rights violations, extreme crime etc, there is a delay in establishing their identity.

When they do that, I don’t have any problems with detention. I’m sure that they are free to leave the country at any time they like. If they don’t like their conditions, leave. Go start a colony in Antarctica for all I care.

If people are going to be unsociable when they get their citizenship – and I am stereotyping one certain crowd at the moment, I am aware of the fact that the majority of crime is conducted by Australians, I believe that their citizenship should be forfeit if applicable. There’s enough wankers in Australia (just look in Queensland) at the moment, we don’t need to be welcoming more.

Involving their families will make them model citizens.

But we’re not going to go that way are we ?

Australian Backbone was taken away from us years ago. There isn’t any men from snowy river’s anymore, no Breaker Morants. They’d have been locked up years ago for being a public nuisance.

But I can tell you one thing, They were Aussies in the true sense of the word.

Mael, I think you should write a book. It would definitely sell….

Bloody hell that’s a long post, Maelinar. I don’t know if I can read all that in one sitting. Ah, who am I kidding? Of course I can, I’m at work!

Anywho, I also dislike the blame being placed on the cops. If the cops can’t chase the bad guys, who else will stand up to crime?

vigilantes ?

I’d be the paticularly ruthless one…

Mealinar, have you ever lived, as an adult, in a country which has a completely different culture to your own? I spent a short while in China recently (12 months) and I found myself hanging out a lot more with other foreigners than I did with Chinese people. Not because I don’t like Chinese people, not even because they didn’t like me (although that’s certainly the case with some) – just because I was homesick! People identify with what they’re familiar with, no matter how eager they are to experience and appreciate alternative lifestyles. When everything from your furniture to your clothes to the food and ingredients and cars and colour of the traffic lights is different to what you’re used to, is it any wonder that you make friends with other foreigners? People need to feel comfortable, no matter how accepting they are of their surroundings. I had my friends here send me cheese because it was impossible to get where I was – and because I wanted a familiar taste! I love Chinese food, but sometimes, just sometimes, you want to be reminded of “home.”

Now, I know the argument of “well if they miss home so much then why did they move?” and frankly it irritates the shit out of me. People come to Australia because they think it is a free and enlightened country where they are welcome to act as they want (of course within the restrictions of law!) and believe what they want. They may have been unhappy with their lives in their home country for any number of reasons, and I have no doubt that every single immigrant thinks for a very long time before deciding to make the move. They choose Australia because it is, for whatever reason, more appealing a place than their home country – and that’s quite impressive, really! Are there many places you would rather live than your home?

So, they choose to leave their home, their family, their roots, because they think they are making a move for the better, whether it be for political, economic, or other reasons. When they get here, it’s not simply a matter of “Oh, I’ll act Australian now, and forget EVERYTHING THAT I’VE BEEN BROUGHT UP TO KNOW.” They have to ease the transition somehow, and some people might not even be able to make the transition and it takes a generation for it to come through. That means that they have to surround themselves with familiar foods, faces, languages and attitudes, then so be it.

Naturally I don’t approve of any kind of criminal or seriously anti-social behaviour, and people that do it should be punished in order to deter others. I’d never heard of revoking of citizenship, but that sounds like a pretty good idea frankly – if they break the law, though, not if they socialise with other people from their culture. I also know that of course some people will come to Australia hoping to run from trouble that they’ve caused in their own country, and as long as we have the choice, naturally we shouldn’t let serious criminals “in.” Hoever, blaming immigrants for flocking together and enjoying activities they enjoyed at home (within, as I said, the boundaries of the law) to make themselves feel more comfortable instead of being immediatley & entirely assimilated into Anglo Australian culture is not going to get anyone anywhere.

I agree that we have to be strict, but we also have to be tolerant – a hard “man,” but fair. Isn’t that what Men from Snowy River are?

That’d be fun for a little while, but then it would all go pear shaped.
I’ve actually read your long post now. I think the refugees in the detention centres are not free to go back to their countries of origin. I’m not sure of this, but it seems more of them would be doing it if they could, rather than hunger-striking or attempting suicide.

(Sorry, my last post was addressed to Maelinar)

Hmm, eating other people’s food. Like aussies overseas drinking VB, importing vegemite, and getting together to get vomiting drunk on ANZAC day, wearing silly hats on cup day?

hate to see australians copping abuse overseas for that sort of thing.

you can descibe people as “olive skinned men with dark hair and prominent noses”, and if that’s still relevant leave it in. but notice how that de-powers the language? Becomes a lot less relevant?

Also describes me and I’m a welsh-anglo-german. Stereotypes can be usefull internal references.

For example fat men in suits talking jargon are almost allways trying to rip me off.

But they aren’t so great for public broadcast where the dangers of reinforcement are present.

AnuTiamat, No.

(the rest) The comment ref. foodstuffs was in relation to previous posts regarding American produce, I was linking into that…

Somebody mentioned to me today that they’d like to see an anglo suicide bomber go into a mosque and detonate it.

The irony would make him a martyr.

I’m talking about deeper issues than just foodstuffs, however they do play a minor influence.

I’m saying that Australians (in general habit) don’t congregate together overseas, spike young ladies drinks and pack rape them. Please notify me if I’m misinformed.

They don’t get together and form drug cartels, prey on the local populace (other than work and drink harder), We don’t do drive by shootings, kneecap people for the fun of it, we don’t drive axes through other peoples heads.

We play rugby, dress up funny, get pissed a lot and maybe defecate and spew everywhere (generally in Oktober)…

A different kettle of fish. Pardon the pun…

“I’m saying that Australians (in general habit) don’t congregate together overseas, spike young ladies drinks and pack rape them. Please notify me if I’m misinformed.”

Of course they don’t. However, by the same token…Lebanese people in general don’t run around pack raping young ladies either. Some do….but also some Aussies do. If it were a bunch of Aussies in question…would that fact have been mentioned? Probably not. Hence, the original comment is basically racist. Sorry…but I have a very, very, very low tolerance of racism.

I dunno Mael, there’s a pretty solid australian mafia running in london, as for what our football teams get up to in Bali or our DFAT bureaucrats in Cambodia, well the less said the better.

Once you get in and have a close look there’s not that much difference between our traditional values and those of either muslims or chinese.

Drugs and pack rape certainly aren’t muslim values and don’t get tolerated out of any sense of multiculturalism.

Where they do get tolerated is by a community that’s built up an “Us v. Them” mentallity, partly because of people shouting “why aren’t you more aussie” at them.

not saying it’s an excuse and you might have noticed police and politicians working pretty hard to stamp down on that practice.

sure the nasty boys’ mums go on TV trying to justify or rationalise their sons actions, but lots of people’s mums would do that.

(mine wouldn’t, but that’s another story)

Just leave them be and invite them round to your BBQ, it’ll all work out and, if they can find the ingredients, they’ll probably cook you a mighty fine meal in return.

*goes back to corner*

goes back in box! Damn you rant well!

Don’t worry Mael, I think your heart is in the right place. It’s not often someone is so patriotically in love with their homeland they will stop at nothing to ensure it is left untainted.

I salute you for not being afraid to stand up. On the other hand I urge you to open your mind and walk a mile in someone elses shoes. If you have done so and still feel the same then more power, you’ll have fuel for your fire.

It’s not about having a go at you Mael, they’re understandable things to think and a few years ago I could well have written the same things.

But them some friends explained why I was wrong and after going away and thinking about it I realised they were right.

I think that one of the tragedies of the whole multiculturalism experience in Australia over the past twenty or so years is that the culture now being held onto in Australia by those from overseas, has not evolved, and instead is a remant of what that culture actually was some decades ago.

My old anthropology lecturer once said, when culture stagnates, it either dies or is twisted into something it never was by those who wish to assume power in this vacuum.

Wise words I believe.

And possibly what Mael was getting at in one sense or another.

And yes, I’ll speak up Mael in that he spent a year in Timor so he has lived overseas in a very foreign country where he managed to learn both Indon and Tetun (sp?)languages.

In this case I believe what Mael has said is what most people have as a small nagging fear or doubt somewhere in the back of their minds. And I will agree that this is not helped by the current media frenzy, but it is also not helped by stereotypical ethnic groups doing stereotypical things that, us, as Australians, and I include all in that description, find repulsive.

An interesting sideline to all of this is that my son used to get discriminated against, in one school he attended, for being Australian. What was worse was that the teachers and staff did nothing to address this, and yet I can imagine the consequences if it were to be the other way around.

Sadly we are seeing an age where doubt and fear could become, if they have not already, the norm. This is not because of the majority of citizens in this country or in any other, however, at present there is, without doubt, a terrorist threat, however small it may be, and that predominantly comes from Muslim extremists (I hate that word extremist).

We have a country that is run, on both sides of the political spectrum, by people older than us, and who grew up in a world much different than what we did. As such their views invade everything we do, see, hear, and read. That is inevitable and a fact of life.

Those fears are, to an extent, justified. However, it is a different point of view to, say, me, or others that may have had my background.

There are good and bad in all societies. However, as I previously mentioned, the current threat of terrorism towards this country, comes from Muslims.

As such, it is not hard to see why some attitudes exist.

It was mentioned to me today that IRA would have done much better to get themselves into the British political scene way back in the 1960s as if they had, they would be in a much greater position of power today and would be able to influence policy.

What happens if, in years to come, this country suddenly finds that its elected officials are those who actually don’t believe in democracy, but are just using it as a way to meet an end?

Of course this is doubtful, but once again, i will reiterate that there is that underlying fear and doubt and people cannot be blamed for feeling that way.

We can only but wait and see what the future holds.