how about writing it yourself so you’re not giving yourself an undeserved advantage over other honest applicants

Don’t use a company. Outsiders don’t know the APS language.

Find someone that is at least one level, preferably two levels above the level you want to apply for, and ask them for their help.

And contrary to post #1, don’t feel bad about getting someone else to write it for you. At the risk of sounding like Lance, everyone else is doing it and you need to do it to in order to keep up. The selection statement just gets you through the culling process, you need to shine in the interview to get the job.

Final advice – don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Once you’ve drafted up a good set of general-purpose criteria, use them for as many jobs as you can and take a flexible approach to what jobs you want. I would suggest applying for a bare minimum of 4 jobs per fortnight, depending on what level you’re at (at EL2 or above the jobs become a bit thin on the ground).

actually everyone isn’t doing it and frankly, as someone who has to sort applications, it’s annoying when people mass apply for jobs with irrelevant junk. they stand out for the wrong reasons as they aren’t tailored to the role or agency.

if you need someone to write your applications to get past the screening process, maybe you should look for another job

zorro29 said :

actually everyone isn’t doing it and frankly, as someone who has to sort applications, it’s annoying when people mass apply for jobs with irrelevant junk. they stand out for the wrong reasons as they aren’t tailored to the role or agency.

if you need someone to write your applications to get past the screening process, maybe you should look for another job

Agreed.

In response to the the first poster – addressing selection criteria is not about “selling yourself”. It’s simply about showing the selection panel that you actually have the necessary skills to do the job. As someone who has to read through responses, I can tell you right now that unless you actually address the criteria in the context of examples from your working life, no amount of “selling yourself” will matter.

Responding to selection criteria is not difficult. A few minutes googling will provide you with links to useful advice. If you lack the ability to write an appropriate, consise written response, you probably shouldn’t be applying for the job.

..and you don’t ‘write section criteria’ – you respond to them.

have a look at the job requirements and write a short para each on one or two examples from your work (and private) life that demonstrate you have the skill required or could patently acquire it and this is your response.

many jobs have criteria on communication and use the written application as some of the basis for their assessment of your written skills, so if you do get someone else to write the application for you you may be seen to be wilfully misleading the panel if you don’t decalre this within your submitted application…

Just don’t write that you have ‘attention to detail’ and follow it with a spelling error. Biggest bugbear ever.
Remember, that if it is made up you’ll get found out pretty quickly.

Madam Cholet said :

Just don’t write that you have ‘attention to detail’ and follow it with a spelling error. Biggest bugbear ever.
Remember, that if it is made up you’ll get found out pretty quickly.

But not necessarily before the probation period is up – and then it becomes their problem, not yours.

Mysteryman said :

Responding to selection criteria is not difficult. A few minutes googling will provide you with links to useful advice. If you lack the ability to write an appropriate, consise written response, you probably shouldn’t be applying for the job.

My sincere apologies, but – based on my frankly extensive experience – that is laughable.

Firstly, most jobs that require lengthy, repetetitive and vague selection criteria do NOT require high-level or even adequate writing skills. Look at what is required for an EA job if you don’t believe me. Yet, unless you can wax lyrical about APS values and code of conduct, you won’t get a look in. Up until EL1 everything gets re-written multiple times as it works it way up through the bureaucracy, to the extent that actual writing skills are nearly irrellevant.

Secondly, in terms of relevance – most criteria are the same. Something on written communication, something on oral communication, something on teamwork, maybe ‘conceptual and analytical skills’ or some equally vague variation therefore, and maybe – just maybe, if they are particularly wank-worthy – something about leadership (not just for EL2s and above – I’ve seen it for APS 5s). The ‘generic’ ones massively outnumber the crazy one-offs like DIAC etc, so the optimal strategy is to draft the ‘one size fits all’ statement, and scatterbomb them around.

Finally – and I’m not sure I’m reading this right, so happy to be corrected – there seems to be some fear that if you get someone to write your statement, this could somehow be found out later on and used to your detriment. Please. Unless you go advertising the fact, there’s no way this could happen, and in any case the APS is so incapable of managing even gross incompetence there is no concievable way they could devote the resources required to first prove it, and secondly prove it was some kind of breach actionable by any sanctions.

/rant.

artuoui said :

Madam Cholet said :

Just don’t write that you have ‘attention to detail’ and follow it with a spelling error. Biggest bugbear ever.
Remember, that if it is made up you’ll get found out pretty quickly.

But not necessarily before the probation period is up – and then it becomes their problem, not yours.

LOL, too true.

(assuming probation isn’t waived i.e. OP is coming in from outside, as opposed to getting a promotion).

Isn’t the APS selection criteria, where they hold a mirror under your nose and see if it fogs up?

FXST01 said :

Isn’t the APS selection criteria, where they hold a mirror under your nose and see if it fogs up?

WTF does that even mean?

Part of the process of writing the selection criteria is your ability to respond relevantly and with concision.

If you can’t do that yourself, I’m sorry, but you’ve already failed one of the tests for the job. Don’t cheat others by outsourcing it. Focus instead on gaining advice and skills that will enable you to do it yourself better.

Devils_Advocate sounds like that person who jumps from entry level position to entry level position and thinks that they know everything.

c_c™ said :

Part of the process of writing the selection criteria is your ability to respond relevantly and with concision.

I take it you’ve never applied for a role in the APS then?

“You have to do a selection criteria up”

Clearly your writing skills need improving.

Also #8 devils advocate. Have your worked as an EA?? They are the most under appreciated person in your office. Extremely underpaid too. God I’d hate to be your coworker.

Tetranitrate said :

c_c™ said :

Part of the process of writing the selection criteria is your ability to respond relevantly and with concision.

I take it you’ve never applied for a role in the APS then?

On the contrary, and additionally my statement is supported by written materials used in public service recruitment. They’re freely available, please seek them out.

apparently if you use one of these people you pay $100 ish and you still have to tell them all the examples of your work history so that they can write it up.
My advice is to write your examples your self using the STAR method and then edit the bejezus of them using people you know are good at writing or are good at their higher level job.

Genie said :

Also #8 devils advocate. Have your worked as an EA?? They are the most under appreciated person in your office. Extremely underpaid too. God I’d hate to be your coworker.

*sigh*

I agree they are overworked and underpaid. I also agree it is a very highly skilled position. It requires people skills, *actual* time management skills, *actual* ability to prioritise, and also flexibility (especially in more recent years where the EA role now often includes ministerial liaison and departmental coord).

Those are all very, very important skills that not many people have and which are essential to running a work area.

However, the written skills are not as demanding as other jobs. In fact, I think there’s very few jobs in the APS that justify the extraordinarily high emphasis that is placed on the written selection statement. That goes for fairly senior quantitative analysis roles, just as for EAs. EAs was just one example I thought of. Probably many service delivery areas don’t require extremely sophisticated writing skills. Excluding people on the basis of writing skills for those jobs that don’t really need them, means you miss out of people that would probably do a great job.

Dork said :

Devils_Advocate sounds like that person who jumps from entry level position to entry level position and thinks that they know everything.

Project much?

Do the panel already want you? If not, don’t bother.

c_c™ said :

Part of the process of writing the selection criteria is your ability to respond relevantly and with concision.

If you can’t do that yourself, I’m sorry, but you’ve already failed one of the tests for the job. Don’t cheat others by outsourcing it. Focus instead on gaining advice and skills that will enable you to do it yourself better.

Totally agree. Having someone else writing your application is a kind of fraud. Is that same person going to come to work with you and write your briefs for you ?

zorro29 said :

how about writing it yourself so you’re not giving yourself an undeserved advantage over other honest applicants

I am curious as to how getting someone to write an application for you is being dishonest and giving an advantage?

In my case I am bloody good at what I do, but s*** at writting. The application (unless the job calls for a writer) shoulod be written to prove you meet the criteria not that you are good at writting. So really what is the issue getting someone else to do it?

PS my last one was written by my wife, does that make me dishonest?

Pitchka said :

FXST01 said :

Isn’t the APS selection criteria, where they hold a mirror under your nose and see if it fogs up?

WTF does that even mean?

I really hope that is not a serious comment.

fabforty said :

c_c™ said :

Part of the process of writing the selection criteria is your ability to respond relevantly and with concision.

If you can’t do that yourself, I’m sorry, but you’ve already failed one of the tests for the job. Don’t cheat others by outsourcing it. Focus instead on gaining advice and skills that will enable you to do it yourself better.

Totally agree. Having someone else writing your application is a kind of fraud. Is that same person going to come to work with you and write your briefs for you ?

If the public service had a problem with people getting other people to help with their applications, they would ask them to sign off that it is all their own work. No, it isn’t fraud.

JC said :

zorro29 said :

how about writing it yourself so you’re not giving yourself an undeserved advantage over other honest applicants

I am curious as to how getting someone to write an application for you is being dishonest and giving an advantage?

In my case I am bloody good at what I do, but s*** at writting.

Nailed that one.

devils_advocate said :

Don’t use a company. Outsiders don’t know the APS language.

Find someone that is at least one level, preferably two levels above the level you want to apply for, and ask them for their help.

And contrary to post #1, don’t feel bad about getting someone else to write it for you. At the risk of sounding like Lance, everyone else is doing it and you need to do it to in order to keep up. The selection statement just gets you through the culling process, you need to shine in the interview to get the job.

Final advice – don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Once you’ve drafted up a good set of general-purpose criteria, use them for as many jobs as you can and take a flexible approach to what jobs you want. I would suggest applying for a bare minimum of 4 jobs per fortnight, depending on what level you’re at (at EL2 or above the jobs become a bit thin on the ground).

No wonder the APS is rooted due to lack of expertise, among many other reasons. Nobody sits still long enough to be able to figure out what they’re supposed to be doing.

I see this all the time at The Department Of Obfuscated, where everybody changes seats and hats every year or so. We’re constantly dealing with blundering bloody amateurs who’ve just rolled in to replace the previous amateur. It makes it unnecessarily hard for everybody.

I’ve worked for the same crew for over 20 years, and in the same role for the last 8 years. This doesn’t mean I’m a bumbling old fart with no ability, it means I’m the best in the country, and among the best in the world, at what I do because I’ve done it long enough to develop expertise.

Sigh. Screaming into the void, I suspect.

JC said :

zorro29 said :

how about writing it yourself so you’re not giving yourself an undeserved advantage over other honest applicants

I am curious as to how getting someone to write an application for you is being dishonest and giving an advantage?

In my case I am bloody good at what I do, but s*** at writting. The application (unless the job calls for a writer) shoulod be written to prove you meet the criteria not that you are good at writting. So really what is the issue getting someone else to do it?

PS my last one was written by my wife, does that make me dishonest?

As someone who has chaired a lot of panels, a well written response to a selection criteria is just one of a range of things I’ll look at to judge you – don’t forget to have a very good CV – I often find it more useful than a selection criteria to work out the skills of a applicant. I usually go to a detailed read of the selection criteria after i’ve already made my ‘cut’ of hopelessly unqualified applicants. In your case, make sure you have both short, concise and with relevant examples. I can spot a ‘generic app’ a mile away versus an application where someone has put a heap of work into it.

Personally, it won’t matter who writes your response to a selection criteria (I help my wife with hers and always get someone to read over mine – just to keep the quality assurance up). With a CV and a in-depth interview, most of the time you can work out who is good and who isn’t.

‘Selection criteria’ is basically a ridiculous game public servants have to play. No wonder people strategise about how to do it. Having to use all those BS meaningless weasel words can drive a normal person crazy (eg strategic, resilience, innovative, leveraging).

Davjp, I would take the advice given in post #2, and don’t feel bad at all. Any obvious discrepancies between the SC and interview (eg difference in written literacy v English language skills) will be evident at interview. These days agencies place far more weight on the interview than SC (because many people get help writing them due to their daft and incomprehensible nature), which makes one wonder why SC required at all.

JC said :

zorro29 said :

how about writing it yourself so you’re not giving yourself an undeserved advantage over other honest applicants

I am curious as to how getting someone to write an application for you is being dishonest and giving an advantage?

In my case I am bloody good at what I do, but s*** at writting. The application (unless the job calls for a writer) shoulod be written to prove you meet the criteria not that you are good at writting. So really what is the issue getting someone else to do it?

PS my last one was written by my wife, does that make me dishonest?

short answer: yes

long answer: yes

i am excellent at my job but not great in interviews…maybe i should outsource that too. is your wife available?

devils_advocate said :

Mysteryman said :

Responding to selection criteria is not difficult. A few minutes googling will provide you with links to useful advice. If you lack the ability to write an appropriate, consise written response, you probably shouldn’t be applying for the job.

My sincere apologies, but – based on my frankly extensive experience – that is laughable.

Firstly, most jobs that require lengthy, repetetitive and vague selection criteria do NOT require high-level or even adequate writing skills. Look at what is required for an EA job if you don’t believe me. Yet, unless you can wax lyrical about APS values and code of conduct, you won’t get a look in. Up until EL1 everything gets re-written multiple times as it works it way up through the bureaucracy, to the extent that actual writing skills are nearly irrellevant.

Secondly, in terms of relevance – most criteria are the same. Something on written communication, something on oral communication, something on teamwork, maybe ‘conceptual and analytical skills’ or some equally vague variation therefore, and maybe – just maybe, if they are particularly wank-worthy – something about leadership (not just for EL2s and above – I’ve seen it for APS 5s). The ‘generic’ ones massively outnumber the crazy one-offs like DIAC etc, so the optimal strategy is to draft the ‘one size fits all’ statement, and scatterbomb them around.

Finally – and I’m not sure I’m reading this right, so happy to be corrected – there seems to be some fear that if you get someone to write your statement, this could somehow be found out later on and used to your detriment. Please. Unless you go advertising the fact, there’s no way this could happen, and in any case the APS is so incapable of managing even gross incompetence there is no concievable way they could devote the resources required to first prove it, and secondly prove it was some kind of breach actionable by any sanctions.

/rant.

I’m yet to apply for a job that had “lengthy, repetetitive and vague selection criteria”. It sounds like you don’t possess the ability to understand why communication, teamwork, and critical thinking skills would be relevant to the public service. Of course you are going to have trouble with addressing selection criteria.