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T2 for Barry Drive?

By 14 February 2012 49

The Liberals’ Zed Seselja has announced he’d make the Barry Drive bus lane a T2 if he gets elected.

“The Canberra Liberals will move to open this lane to T2 Traffic, that is all vehicles with two or more passengers on board. The infrastructure is there, but we don’t use it. It will cost nothing, and can instantly improve the drive to work for thousands of Canberrans.

“We led the way by pushing this idea on the ACT Labor government and succeeded in opening up Adelaide Avenue that had the same out of date restrictions. That has freed up that road enormously,” said Zed.

Shadow Transport Services Minister and local Belconnen Member Alistair Coe added, “The lane along Barry Drive is currently only open to buses and taxis, despite Barry Drive carrying up to 27,000 vehicles per day. Closing the third lane to nothing but busses – and busses that aren’t that frequent – is a massive waste and poor planning. Our idea opens Belconnen up just that bit more every day for all those travelling in by car.

Is a bus lane anywhere safe now?

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49 Responses to T2 for Barry Drive?
#31
Aeek10:13 pm, 15 Feb 12

broken quoting, tiliqua NOT me

#32
rhino1:16 pm, 16 Feb 12

I very much agree with this idea. I never saw the point in closing a lane only to leave it empty most of the time and the others chockers and then fine anyone with the common sense to want to use the empty lane.

#33
rhino1:27 pm, 16 Feb 12

nsn said :

“Busses that aren’t that frequent”

Really?

According to Action, there is a bus in the 300 series doing the intertown run every 5-8 minutes from 7am-7pm Monday-Friday. Just how much more frequent would the Liberals make the intertown busses?

Wow one vehicle every 8 minutes for 50% of the day. So there may be 1 bus for every 10kms of that lane during peak hour. Considering you could fit 2000 cars in that same space if it were bumper to bumper, I hardly think that is optimizing the number of people using the lane.

Obviously it won’t be bumper to bumper for a whole 10km stretch, but it will certainly be hundreds of cars for 1 bus. If all the other cars could flow that much better, I’m sure the bus would be able to drive and pick up people still as per normal.

#34
Keijidosha1:32 pm, 16 Feb 12

rhino said :

I very much agree with this idea. I never saw the point in closing a lane only to leave it empty most of the time and the others chockers and then fine anyone with the common sense to want to use the empty lane.

No lane was closed, the Government built an additional lane for buses which technically freed up space in the other two lanes for more cars.

#35
thatsnotme1:42 pm, 16 Feb 12

rhino said :

Wow one vehicle every 8 minutes for 50% of the day. So there may be 1 bus for every 10kms of that lane during peak hour. Considering you could fit 2000 cars in that same space if it were bumper to bumper, I hardly think that is optimizing the number of people using the lane.

Obviously it won’t be bumper to bumper for a whole 10km stretch, but it will certainly be hundreds of cars for 1 bus. If all the other cars could flow that much better, I’m sure the bus would be able to drive and pick up people still as per normal.

10km? I think you’re talking about a different bus lane, because the one we’re talking about here is 2km on Barry Drive, and there are no stops until right at the end of the lane opposite the ANU.

#36
rhino1:50 pm, 16 Feb 12

Keijidosha said :

rhino said :

I very much agree with this idea. I never saw the point in closing a lane only to leave it empty most of the time and the others chockers and then fine anyone with the common sense to want to use the empty lane.

No lane was closed, the Government built an additional lane for buses which technically freed up space in the other two lanes for more cars.

It was closed to me. I could not access it. I’m all for building lanes, but am against limiting them to 1 vehicle every 10kms.

#37
rhino2:08 pm, 16 Feb 12

thatsnotme said :

rhino said :

Wow one vehicle every 8 minutes for 50% of the day. So there may be 1 bus for every 10kms of that lane during peak hour. Considering you could fit 2000 cars in that same space if it were bumper to bumper, I hardly think that is optimizing the number of people using the lane.

Obviously it won’t be bumper to bumper for a whole 10km stretch, but it will certainly be hundreds of cars for 1 bus. If all the other cars could flow that much better, I’m sure the bus would be able to drive and pick up people still as per normal.

10km? I think you’re talking about a different bus lane, because the one we’re talking about here is 2km on Barry Drive, and there are no stops until right at the end of the lane opposite the ANU.

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

#38
Keijidosha3:01 pm, 16 Feb 12

rhino said :

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

That’s the kind of bizarre logic Zed and Coe are counting on on to push through their wacky T2 plan.

#39
rhino3:30 pm, 16 Feb 12

Keijidosha said :

rhino said :

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

That’s the kind of bizarre logic Zed and Coe are counting on on to push through their wacky T2 plan.

How is that bizarre? There is 2kms of completely unused lane for 6 whole minutes every morning until ONE bus comes along and starts driving along it for a few minutes. In that time hundreds of cars have passed.

What is your logic that informs you that other vehicles also making use of this lane wouldn’t be better?

#40
NoImRight3:55 pm, 16 Feb 12

rhino said :

Keijidosha said :

rhino said :

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

That’s the kind of bizarre logic Zed and Coe are counting on on to push through their wacky T2 plan.

How is that bizarre? There is 2kms of completely unused lane for 6 whole minutes every morning until ONE bus comes along and starts driving along it for a few minutes. In that time hundreds of cars have passed.

What is your logic that informs you that other vehicles also making use of this lane wouldn’t be better?

So your plan is to make another lane bumper to bumper to improve traffic flow?

#41
nsn4:02 pm, 16 Feb 12

rhino said :

nsn said :

“Busses that aren’t that frequent”

Really?

According to Action, there is a bus in the 300 series doing the intertown run every 5-8 minutes from 7am-7pm Monday-Friday. Just how much more frequent would the Liberals make the intertown busses?

Wow one vehicle every 8 minutes for 50% of the day. So there may be 1 bus for every 10kms of that lane during peak hour. Considering you could fit 2000 cars in that same space if it were bumper to bumper, I hardly think that is optimizing the number of people using the lane.

Obviously it won’t be bumper to bumper for a whole 10km stretch, but it will certainly be hundreds of cars for 1 bus. If all the other cars could flow that much better, I’m sure the bus would be able to drive and pick up people still as per normal.

Your mistake is in assuming that the purpose of a bus lane is to “optimise the number of people using that lane”.

#42
rhino4:55 pm, 16 Feb 12

NoImRight said :

rhino said :

Keijidosha said :

rhino said :

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

That’s the kind of bizarre logic Zed and Coe are counting on on to push through their wacky T2 plan.

How is that bizarre? There is 2kms of completely unused lane for 6 whole minutes every morning until ONE bus comes along and starts driving along it for a few minutes. In that time hundreds of cars have passed.

What is your logic that informs you that other vehicles also making use of this lane wouldn’t be better?

So your plan is to make another lane bumper to bumper to improve traffic flow?

T2 would make it less full than the other lanes, but still flowing with cars so that people can progress. As there would be another lane, more people would be able to get moving and the queue would be shorter and faster. There would be less bumper to bumper in the other lanes.

What would the opposite be? Minimise the number of lanes? That obviously wouldn’t work better with 1. I doubt making Northbourne 2 lanes with a bus lane would help. Each time the lights turn green much fewer people would make it through, so obviously you have worse flow.

How do you suggest leaving a lane almost empty would help traffic flow?

#43
NoImRight5:12 pm, 16 Feb 12

In an ideal world yes but nature abhors a vacuum and commuters abhor a vacancy. Look at the complaints over keep left already. That should impriove traffic flow too but it just represents two lanes of traffic grinding along. Busses once again caught up in car traffic is not a step forward

#44
rhino5:22 pm, 16 Feb 12

NoImRight said :

In an ideal world yes but nature abhors a vacuum and commuters abhor a vacancy. Look at the complaints over keep left already. That should impriove traffic flow too but it just represents two lanes of traffic grinding along. Busses once again caught up in car traffic is not a step forward

No solution is perfect, but 2 lanes with keep left works better than 1 lane for traffic flow.

How is an almost empty lane a step forward? I can’t see how it is an improvement over a T2 lane personally.

#45
agent002:03 am, 20 Feb 12

alistair coe needs to grow up. the young and inexperienced politician only knows how to complain. perhaps he has never been on the blue rapid before.

#46
HenryBG8:36 am, 20 Feb 12

rhino said :

Keijidosha said :

rhino said :

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

That’s the kind of bizarre logic Zed and Coe are counting on on to push through their wacky T2 plan.

How is that bizarre? There is 2kms of completely unused lane for 6 whole minutes every morning until ONE bus comes along and starts driving along it for a few minutes. In that time hundreds of cars have passed.

What is your logic that informs you that other vehicles also making use of this lane wouldn’t be better?

OK: The civic end of Barry Drive is like the neck of an hour glass. The stretch of Barry Drive back to Belconnen is the bulb of the hour glass.

Currently, the bus lane allows buses to reach the neck in the minimum of time. (As each bus carries at least 40 people, this is a very efficient way to get a lot of people into Civic during times of congestion).
What you are proposing is the completely illogical step of widening the *bulb* of the hour glass: the average distance between each grain of sand and the neck is reduced, but the time it takes to get through the neck is unchanged.
What you will have changed, however, is you will have greatly reduced the flow of people past the neck because you will have introduced a delay for the vehicles which have the most carrying capacity.

It shouldn’t be surprising that random idiots posting here are unable to conduct a successful analysis of the situation, but the scary thing is that the people who run the ACT, the leaders of our community, are so intellectually backward that they think there even needs to be a debate over this.

#47
rhino2:57 pm, 20 Feb 12

HenryBG said :

rhino said :

Keijidosha said :

rhino said :

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

That’s the kind of bizarre logic Zed and Coe are counting on on to push through their wacky T2 plan.

How is that bizarre? There is 2kms of completely unused lane for 6 whole minutes every morning until ONE bus comes along and starts driving along it for a few minutes. In that time hundreds of cars have passed.

What is your logic that informs you that other vehicles also making use of this lane wouldn’t be better?

OK: The civic end of Barry Drive is like the neck of an hour glass. The stretch of Barry Drive back to Belconnen is the bulb of the hour glass.

Currently, the bus lane allows buses to reach the neck in the minimum of time. (As each bus carries at least 40 people, this is a very efficient way to get a lot of people into Civic during times of congestion).
What you are proposing is the completely illogical step of widening the *bulb* of the hour glass: the average distance between each grain of sand and the neck is reduced, but the time it takes to get through the neck is unchanged.
What you will have changed, however, is you will have greatly reduced the flow of people past the neck because you will have introduced a delay for the vehicles which have the most carrying capacity.

It shouldn’t be surprising that random idiots posting here are unable to conduct a successful analysis of the situation, but the scary thing is that the people who run the ACT, the leaders of our community, are so intellectually backward that they think there even needs to be a debate over this.

So 40 people can go down that lane freely every 8 minutes or whatever it was. How many people would flow through there in that time if it were a T2? Considerably more. It isn’t like having a few carpoolers using the lane would grind it to a halt. It would reduce the overall number of cars on the road as well.

#48
HenryBG3:20 pm, 20 Feb 12

rhino said :

So 40 people can go down that lane freely every 8 minutes or whatever it was. How many people would flow through there in that time if it were a T2? Considerably more. It isn’t like having a few carpoolers using the lane would grind it to a halt. It would reduce the overall number of cars on the road as well.

No it wouldn’t, for the reason given above.
Changing the way Barry Drive is used can’t change the volume of vehicles that can be accepted into Civic. You’d have to change the volume of vehicles that can be accepted into Civic to change the volume of vehicles that can be accepted into Civic. Frigging with lanes on Barry Drive only affects the density of the congestion at its Civic end…and potentially reduce the volume of *passengers* that makes it into Civic.

I thought an hour glass analogy would suffice for you to understand the concept, but clearly the analogy needs to be dumbed down way beyond my meagre capabilities…

#49
rhino8:44 pm, 12 Mar 12

HenryBG said :

rhino said :

So 40 people can go down that lane freely every 8 minutes or whatever it was. How many people would flow through there in that time if it were a T2? Considerably more. It isn’t like having a few carpoolers using the lane would grind it to a halt. It would reduce the overall number of cars on the road as well.

No it wouldn’t, for the reason given above.
Changing the way Barry Drive is used can’t change the volume of vehicles that can be accepted into Civic. You’d have to change the volume of vehicles that can be accepted into Civic to change the volume of vehicles that can be accepted into Civic. Frigging with lanes on Barry Drive only affects the density of the congestion at its Civic end…and potentially reduce the volume of *passengers* that makes it into Civic.

I thought an hour glass analogy would suffice for you to understand the concept, but clearly the analogy needs to be dumbed down way beyond my meagre capabilities…

Wow. Why did you see it necessary to resort to a personal attack rather than an elaboration on your point? Perhaps

So your point is that because civic is the bottleneck, there’s no point in upgrading the capacity further along? Therefore the main priority should be in increasing the capacity at the civic end instead? That is a valid point, I agree that they should work on that as a priority. But considering the barry drive T2 lane is an almost free option to help with improving one section of the road and also that the road is not used exclusively for driving to civic (thousands of students and teachers go to ANU or CSIRO or turn off to go down to lady denman or parkes way), it doesn’t mean it’s a worse idea than deliberately restricting the flow on this road that they already paid for.

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