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Taken off the roster

By 4 February 2014 57

I would love some advice if anyone can help.  I am asking on behalf of a friend of mine – he is an employee of a company that is contracted as a security contractor to a business here in Canberra.

He also happens to be in the country on a student visa – one of the stipulations is a set number of hours he can work per fortnight allowing for time to attend Uni, study etc. All fine so far. New manager (ie the client) asks to see his visa (presumably to check conditions) and his Uni results. That seemed excessive – esp. the request to see his results. As he didn’t take proof of his academic results in, the client asked their supplier ie his employer to take him off the roster.

That doesn’t seem ethical – yet alone legal. Is it worth pursuing or does he just have to cop it? There are other colleagues who could be facing the same fate.

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57 Responses to Taken off the roster
#1
neanderthalsis9:23 am, 04 Feb 14

All perfectly reasonable. The request to see academic transcripts may have been to see what course they are studying and its usual duration and how far he has progressed through their course, or maybe they just wanted to see that they were employing someone with a bit of academic nouse. Also, a visa can be cancelled for poor academic performance. When you employ someone, generally you like to ensure that they will stick around for a while, having an employee have their visa cancelled a month or two after you hire them, train them and get them to the point where they can competently do their job is not really an entertaining prospect.

If he is employed on a casual contact, there is no guarantee or even obligation that the employer will provide him with regular shifts. Just because the student visa entitles him to work a maximum of 40 hours a fortnight, the employer is not obliged to give him work for 40 hours. He can have more than one job though, provided he does not exceed the 40 hours a fortnight.

#2
Stormfront Org9:32 am, 04 Feb 14

Fairly good chance that your friend is:

i- Indian

ii- Here to ‘study English”, yet doing EFF ALL studies (sadly, there are still many dodgy places offering “study courses”).

iii- There is a 99% chance that your friend is in breach of his student visa conditions (works excessive hours and really not attending the course).

I would like to request that you name and shame security company that hired your friend and “other colleagues who could be facing the same fate”. (Do they all have a valid Aus security licence, btw?). I find it both reasonable and ethical that a “client” requested to see academic results.

Pack him on a first flight back to Mumbai.

#3
NoImRight10:01 am, 04 Feb 14

Did they say why they wanted to see them? That may go some way to explaining it.

#4
Siren10:12 am, 04 Feb 14

Depends what kind of a contract your friend signed. If he’s agreed to comply with requests as a condition of his employment, and he’s failed to do so (not taking in his results) then that’s one explanation.

I’d ask your fried if he has had to sign a deed of obligation or similar contract that makes it a requirement for him to comply with such things as a code of conduct, drug testing, security clearances etc. This is something companies often have to comply with when tendering to Govt departments.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to take someone off a roster if they don’t respond promptly to requests. The job market is tightening up. I know a person who was taken off the roster because ‘the Xmas rush is over’.

#5
laraeddy11:15 am, 04 Feb 14

Your friend might want to have a chat with the Fair Work Ombudsman (http://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment/casual-full-time-and-part-time-work/pages/casual-employees.aspx) to get a better idea of where he stands.

One thing that doesn’t seem clear is whether the academic results were ‘satisfactory’ – ie, was there a chance that the visa could have been terminated on that basis ? If not, or if the client didn’t really want to accept evidence of good progress, it may raise the issue of whether this was simply being used as a pretext to terminate the arrangement because of some other, actual, reason. No disrespect to people in the security business, but not sure what academic progress in a university course otherwise says about capacity to do the job – but then, you would need to know that actual position to make that assumption validly, one way or the other.

The other issue, assuming there was an ‘injury’, is what is the remedy ? This sort of stuff is precisely why there is so much concern around the place about the increasing casualisation of the workforce – it can leave workers horribly unprotected when it comes to the whims and vaguaries of the employer.

In good news, at least in this case it is the ‘client’ rather than the employer who has made the call – has your friend had a yarn with his actual boss – he or she might be as mystified by the client’s approach as your friend is.

#6
dtc12:31 pm, 04 Feb 14

The client is required to ensure that it is not hiring people in breach of their visa conditions. So I would think that showing proof of enrolment should be sufficient. Academic results show the same thing but I cant see are necessary.

Making an assessment of whether someone is likely to pass their studies isnt, I think, relevant to the question. People might leave employment for 100s of reasons, you can’t make an assessment of every potential issue.

#7
Antagonist2:12 pm, 04 Feb 14

“New manager (ie the client) asks to see his visa (presumably to check conditions) and his Uni results. That seemed excessive – esp. the request to see his results. As he didn’t take proof of his academic results in, the client asked their supplier ie his employer to take him off the roster.”

My first concern is that the CLIENT wants this information. The client is not his employer, and the reason for the client requesting this information is not given. It is personal information, and I would not give it out without the client providing a reasonable business reason for asking.

My second concern is the request for academic results. The academic results are not relevant to a client, and there are other ways to provide evidence of enrolment and attendance at university.

My advice would be to forget about it and move on. Does he REALLY want to work for this client that much? I most certainly would not. Move on to greener pastures.

#8
bigfeet2:23 pm, 04 Feb 14

Wow!

‘Stormfront Org’.

There goes the neighborhood!

#9
NoImRight2:54 pm, 04 Feb 14

bigfeet said :

Wow!

‘Stormfront Org’.

There goes the neighborhood!

Probably just a wannabe. Spelling is too good. The real ones are out somewhere ganging up on a schoolgirl on a bus I expect.

#10
Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd2:57 pm, 04 Feb 14

Stormfront Org said :

Fairly good chance that your friend is:

i- Indian

ii- Here to ‘study English”, yet doing EFF ALL studies (sadly, there are still many dodgy places offering “study courses”).

iii- There is a 99% chance that your friend is in breach of his student visa conditions (works excessive hours and really not attending the course).

I would like to request that you name and shame security company that hired your friend and “other colleagues who could be facing the same fate”. (Do they all have a valid Aus security licence, btw?). I find it both reasonable and ethical that a “client” requested to see academic results.

Pack him on a first flight back to Mumbai.

Source?

#11
colourful sydney rac3:21 pm, 04 Feb 14

right, so Stormfront is now posting predictable race bating rants here. Well done guys.

#12
Roundhead893:31 pm, 04 Feb 14

Stormfront Org as a contributor? It never would have happened if JB was still here. Will they be RA’s new owners?

#13
colourful sydney rac3:41 pm, 04 Feb 14

Roundhead89 said :

Stormfront Org as a contributor? It never would have happened if JB was still here. Will they be RA’s new owners?

Stormfront used to appear in the pending comments but didn’t seem to get the race bating bile through JB’s watchful eyes.

#14
Walker3:48 pm, 04 Feb 14

bigfeet said :

Wow!

‘Stormfront Org’.

There goes the neighborhood!

And here comes the Blues-Mobile.

#15
Nylex_Clock4:42 pm, 04 Feb 14

Roundhead89 said :

Stormfront Org as a contributor? It never would have happened if JB was still here. Will they be RA’s new owners?

Yes, only some opinions are valid.

#16
Pork Hunt4:50 pm, 04 Feb 14

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Stormfront Org said :

Fairly good chance that your friend is:

i- Indian

ii- Here to ‘study English”, yet doing EFF ALL studies (sadly, there are still many dodgy places offering “study courses”).

iii- There is a 99% chance that your friend is in breach of his student visa conditions (works excessive hours and really not attending the course).

I would like to request that you name and shame security company that hired your friend and “other colleagues who could be facing the same fate”. (Do they all have a valid Aus security licence, btw?). I find it both reasonable and ethical that a “client” requested to see academic results.

Pack him on a first flight back to Mumbai.

Source?

Seems to me Stormfront is expressing their own OPINION regarding this matter. I suspect the source may lie somewhere between their ears and slightly behind the eyeballs but not beyond the back of the cranium. Does that narrow it down for you?

#17
Tetranitrate5:20 pm, 04 Feb 14

neanderthalsis said :

maybe they just wanted to see that they were employing someone with a bit of academic nouse.

Why even type something so ridiculous? he’s working in security.

#18
IrishPete5:48 pm, 04 Feb 14

Having worked on a student visa in the early 2000s, I recall that satisfactory academic performance was a requirement of the visa. I thought it was reported automatically to the Immigration department by the university (perhaps smaller academic institutions work differently?), but perhaps the employer is being audited, or trying to be proactive to prevent either party (employer and employee) getting into trouble. It does seem a little intrusive without explanation, though.

IP

#19
Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd6:13 pm, 04 Feb 14

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Stormfront Org said :

Fairly good chance that your friend is:

i- Indian

ii- Here to ‘study English”, yet doing EFF ALL studies (sadly, there are still many dodgy places offering “study courses”).

iii- There is a 99% chance that your friend is in breach of his student visa conditions (works excessive hours and really not attending the course).

I would like to request that you name and shame security company that hired your friend and “other colleagues who could be facing the same fate”. (Do they all have a valid Aus security licence, btw?). I find it both reasonable and ethical that a “client” requested to see academic results.

Pack him on a first flight back to Mumbai.

Source?

Seems to me Stormfront is expressing their own OPINION regarding this matter. I suspect the source may lie somewhere between their ears and slightly behind the eyeballs but not beyond the back of the cranium. Does that narrow it down for you?

They did not state it is their opinion.

They stated percentages without evidence.

#20
thatsnotme11:17 pm, 04 Feb 14

Ha! From JB’s ‘Goodbye’ thread…

Jazz said :

two reasons. 1st is that we prefer not getting sued for what you lot say.. and second is that anonymity, free speech and a large audience tends to create conversations that dissolve into shit-slinging quickly – something that i note from this thread that people don’t like

Then onto…

Stormfront Org said :

Fairly good chance that your friend is:

i- Indian

ii- Here to ‘study English”, yet doing EFF ALL studies (sadly, there are still many dodgy places offering “study courses”).

iii- There is a 99% chance that your friend is in breach of his student visa conditions (works excessive hours and really not attending the course).

I would like to request that you name and shame security company that hired your friend and “other colleagues who could be facing the same fate”. (Do they all have a valid Aus security licence, btw?). I find it both reasonable and ethical that a “client” requested to see academic results.

Pack him on a first flight back to Mumbai.

“One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not quite the same…”

#21
realocal11:25 pm, 04 Feb 14

Thanks for the advice.

Looks like the Ombudsman might be the way to go – irrespective of his ethnicity!

Just FYI – he has been on the payroll for about 3 years & I don’t believe performance / attendance / professionalism were an issue. I also don’t think his marks (apart from a pass / minimum attendance) were a visa requirement – I will check.

Just for the record, he is not studying English, is enrolled at a bonafide University, is attending classes & getting ok grades.

There was no explanation as to why they wanted to see his academic results & I don’t believe it was included in his employment contract. All the usual security requirements are in place – police checks, training requirements, first aid etc. there weren’t any other performance issues that I am aware of.

Proof of enrolment should be presented to his employer … For the client to demand to see academic results just seemed too much – and YES, probably better off working somewhere else but I can’t blame him for being p***ed off.

Again, thanks for advice.

#22
lostinbias12:56 am, 05 Feb 14

Stormfront Org said :

Fairly good chance that your friend is:

i- Indian

ii- Here to ‘study English”, yet doing EFF ALL studies (sadly, there are still many dodgy places offering “study courses”).

iii- There is a 99% chance that your friend is in breach of his student visa conditions (works excessive hours and really not attending the course).

I would like to request that you name and shame security company that hired your friend and “other colleagues who could be facing the same fate”. (Do they all have a valid Aus security licence, btw?). I find it both reasonable and ethical that a “client” requested to see academic results.

Pack him on a first flight back to Mumbai.

Stormfront Org. Really!? So now that JB is gone, we get race-baiting on The RiotACT?

Is this really the message The RiotACT wants to send to potential readers/subscribers, that it allows neo-Nazi ideologues to air racial hatred and suggest people be deported?

We had diversity of opinion here before. We don’t need extremists of any persuasion on this website. Read the Topix Australia forum and tell me if you want The RiotACT to become like that.

#23
Mordd2:12 am, 05 Feb 14

realocal said :

Thanks for the advice.

Looks like the Ombudsman might be the way to go – irrespective of his ethnicity!

Just FYI – he has been on the payroll for about 3 years & I don’t believe performance / attendance / professionalism were an issue. I also don’t think his marks (apart from a pass / minimum attendance) were a visa requirement – I will check.

Just for the record, he is not studying English, is enrolled at a bonafide University, is attending classes & getting ok grades.

There was no explanation as to why they wanted to see his academic results & I don’t believe it was included in his employment contract. All the usual security requirements are in place – police checks, training requirements, first aid etc. there weren’t any other performance issues that I am aware of.

Proof of enrolment should be presented to his employer … For the client to demand to see academic results just seemed too much – and YES, probably better off working somewhere else but I can’t blame him for being p***ed off.

Again, thanks for advice.

+1 for not biting at the trolls.

#24
IrishPete7:13 am, 05 Feb 14

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

They did not state it is their opinion.

They stated percentages without evidence.

I hate to be pedantic, well, not really, but the percentage quoted was an estimated probability, plucked from his head, rather than a percentage based on evidence. S/he’s entitled to that opinion, though obviously we are all entitled to call it out as racist nonsense.

I used the wrong word in my post – instead of “performance” I should have said “progress”. Immigration required me to pass my exams and submit things on time. If something was late, I needed a formal extension from the uni.

Incidentally, police checks on foreigners (like myself when I came here) are often a waste of time, as I don’t believe foreign police services are contacted, and the criminal justice system in the country of origin may be very different – so even if caught for things, it may have been possible to avoid convictions through paying of bribes and other forms of corruption. Conversely you may have been convicted of something that is not illegal here, or something that makes you a virtual hero – to wit “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”.

IP

#25
Stormfront Org7:51 am, 05 Feb 14

Ah, typical crowd consisting of Pork Hunt and C&GN , writing off-topic comments, nothing unusual. Need a good stir, excitement? I am here to help you! :-D I see that you two had immediate hard-ons seeing me on here. However, I’m straight, so no piece of an action for you.

Please, don’t go off-topic next time.

Under the watchful eye of proper moderator (who is instated to have non-biased approach, as long as the comments do not cross the line) – all opinions are valid, not only the ones that please him/her ( looking at an empty greasy seat once occupied by someone with selective views).

Back to the topic- a client has the right to request removal of security guard from rosters/premises. Many security companies have dodgy practices of employing undesired characters, including hiring people without conducting proper police checks, first aid training and similar.
Only naive loners, living in their bubble (CGN, for instance), would think otherwise.

#26
Stormfront Org7:54 am, 05 Feb 14

NoImRight said :

Probably just a wannabe. Spelling is too good. The real ones are out somewhere ganging up on a schoolgirl on a bus I expect.

Is that a rumour you’d heard standing, waiting for the bus or from personal experience? I suggest that you need to broaden your horizons and do some research before posting such a silly comment next time. :)

#27
NoImRight9:25 am, 05 Feb 14

Stormfront Org said :

NoImRight said :

Probably just a wannabe. Spelling is too good. The real ones are out somewhere ganging up on a schoolgirl on a bus I expect.

Is that a rumour you’d heard standing, waiting for the bus or from personal experience? I suggest that you need to broaden your horizons and do some research before posting such a silly comment next time. :)

Yeah my comment was “silly” yours was just hate filled nonsense. So who is worse?

#28
watto2311:46 am, 05 Feb 14

If you work for any company that tenders to the government or other organisation, the client organisation can ask for all sorts of information regarding the people who the tenderer intends to use.
I have been asked for proof of my skills and knowledge, ie certificates,degree etc.

#29
MsCheeky11:53 am, 05 Feb 14

Stormfront Org said :

Ah, typical crowd consisting of Pork Hunt and C&GN , writing off-topic comments, nothing unusual. Need a good stir, excitement? I am here to help you! :-D I see that you two had immediate hard-ons seeing me on here. However, I’m straight, so no piece of an action for you.

Please, don’t go off-topic next time.

Under the watchful eye of proper moderator (who is instated to have non-biased approach, as long as the comments do not cross the line) – all opinions are valid, not only the ones that please him/her ( looking at an empty greasy seat once occupied by someone with selective views).

Back to the topic- a client has the right to request removal of security guard from rosters/premises. Many security companies have dodgy practices of employing undesired characters, including hiring people without conducting proper police checks, first aid training and similar.
Only naive loners, living in their bubble (CGN, for instance), would think otherwise.

NoImRight, Mr StormfrontOrg has now clearly demonstrated that he’s no wannabe but definitely a legitimate racist bogan by the spelling and grammatical errors in this post.

#30
Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:37 pm, 05 Feb 14

Stormfront Org said :

Ah, typical crowd consisting of Pork Hunt and C&GN , writing off-topic comments, nothing unusual. Need a good stir, excitement? I am here to help you! :-D I see that you two had immediate hard-ons seeing me on here. However, I’m straight, so no piece of an action for you.

Please, don’t go off-topic next time.

Under the watchful eye of proper moderator (who is instated to have non-biased approach, as long as the comments do not cross the line) – all opinions are valid, not only the ones that please him/her ( looking at an empty greasy seat once occupied by someone with selective views).

Back to the topic- a client has the right to request removal of security guard from rosters/premises. Many security companies have dodgy practices of employing undesired characters, including hiring people without conducting proper police checks, first aid training and similar.
Only naive loners, living in their bubble (CGN, for instance), would think otherwise.

Can you post a screen shot of any of those allegations please?

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