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TOOT! TOOT! The Greens add up the fast train benefits

By 28 November 2012 13

trains

The Greens’ Shane Rattenbury is celebrating the launch of a Greens’ report on the wonders that will flow from high speed rail:

“The report commissioned by the Greens is an important addition to the debate, as it identifies an enormous $48B of benefits for our nation. These benefits are frequently forgotten when people look at the high price tags of national infrastructure projects,” said Mr Rattenbury.

“This latest study shows that high speed rail can have a positive rebalancing on cost of living pressures, by opening up more affordable regional areas for commuting.

“There will also be big economic, social and environmental benefits. We’ll be closer to Sydney, Melbourne, and our regional neighbours. There will be less congestion on roads and at airports, fewer road accidents, lower greenhouse gas emissions, and less air and noise pollution.

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13 Responses to TOOT! TOOT! The Greens add up the fast train benefits
#1
Solidarity3:37 pm, 28 Nov 12

Add up to a bajillion dollars that’s gotta come from somewhere….

#2
Chop713:40 pm, 28 Nov 12

Gloat away Lord Mayor. It’s just 26 pages of talk.
I’ll believe it when i see the train coming down the tracks.

#3
housebound4:29 pm, 28 Nov 12

Let’s see an equivalent paper on the costs.

#4
mezza765:26 pm, 28 Nov 12

housebound said :

Let’s see an equivalent paper on the costs.

Here ya go :)
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/rail/trains/high_speed/index.aspx

My favourite bit:

The report found that such a network could:
• cost between $61 billion and $108 billion (in $2011) to build and involve laying more than 1,600 kilometres of new standard-gauge, double-track…

#5
devils_advocate5:26 pm, 28 Nov 12

why does it say “Greens”? Didn’t that party only get 1 seat? It should be “Green”.

#6
farnarkler9:52 pm, 28 Nov 12

I wish they would build it. I could live in Sydney and work here.

#7
Pandy9:54 pm, 28 Nov 12

devils_advocate said :

why does it say “Greens”? Didn’t that party only get 1 seat? It should be “Green”.

Its not the Australian Green Party!!

#8
Pandy10:17 pm, 28 Nov 12

Commuting? Now are the Greens really proposing that people wanting to work in Sydney will live in expensive Canberra and commute each day to work? Lets look at a similar story:

Paris to Dijon on the mature TGV high speed network (300kmh trains) is around the same distance as Canberra is from Sydney. Yet it takes 1hr and 40 minutes on average (no stops) to travel by high speed train between the two. Commuting distance? Pigs!!! And the 3rd class fare is around $60 Affordable? Double pigs!!!!

The Greens really need to take their heads out of their navels.

#9
Tetranitrate11:04 pm, 28 Nov 12

mezza76 said :

housebound said :

Let’s see an equivalent paper on the costs.

Here ya go :)
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/rail/trains/high_speed/index.aspx

My favourite bit:

The report found that such a network could:
• cost between $61 billion and $108 billion (in $2011) to build and involve laying more than 1,600 kilometres of new standard-gauge, double-track…

So a similar order of magnitude to the NBN basically.

#10
switch8:59 am, 29 Nov 12

Pandy said :

Commuting? Now are the Greens really proposing that people wanting to work in Sydney will live in expensive Canberra and commute each day to work?

Lets look at a similar story:

Paris to Dijon on the mature TGV high speed network (300kmh trains) is around the same distance as Canberra is from Sydney. Yet it takes 1hr and 40 minutes on average (no stops) to travel by high speed train between the two. Commuting distance? Pigs!!! And the 3rd class fare is around $60 Affordable? Double pigs!!!!

The Greens really need to take their heads out of their navels.

When I lived in the Blue Mountains and worked in Sydney, it took me just under two hours to get to work (one way) by train. And hundreds/thousands more who lived even further west of Sydney also did it, with even longer travel times. A ten minute commute by driving in Canberra is luxury by comparison.

#11
mezza769:14 am, 29 Nov 12

Tetranitrate said :

mezza76 said :

housebound said :

Let’s see an equivalent paper on the costs.

Here ya go :)
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/rail/trains/high_speed/index.aspx

My favourite bit:

The report found that such a network could:
• cost between $61 billion and $108 billion (in $2011) to build and involve laying more than 1,600 kilometres of new standard-gauge, double-track…

So a similar order of magnitude to the NBN basically.

Nah a bit apple and orange there. For starters, the NBN is estimated to cost A$35.9 billion to construct over a 10-year period, including an Australian Government investment of A$27.5 billion. It’s also expected to generate a commercial return.

#12
devils_advocate10:40 am, 29 Nov 12

switch said :

When I lived in the Blue Mountains and worked in Sydney, it took me just under two hours to get to work (one way) by train. And hundreds/thousands more who lived even further west of Sydney also did it, with even longer travel times. A ten minute commute by driving in Canberra is luxury by comparison.

And therein lies the problem. Canberrans are used to a 10-15 minute commute, and a rush hour that lasts 45 minutes. Direct financial costs, as well as time costs, would quickly wipe out even significant gains in terms of lower rental/house prices from living further out. The only reason I can think of why people would trade a very quick and convenient car commute for a lengthy and possibly expensive train ride would be genuine lifestyle issues, ie wanting to live on acreage with horses or similar. But this can be done in car commuting distance (hall, bungendore, etc) and even then this is a tiny number of people, certainly not enough to sustain a massive infrastructure project.

IMO the commuting theory isn’t going to play out in real life.

Only possible application I can see is linking Melb/Canb/Sydney and maybe a bit further north, but even then trips would have to be significantly cheaper than plane or even car to work (the quality of the roads makes car trips very viable).

#13
Devlin10:20 pm, 29 Nov 12

Tetranitrate said :

mezza76 said :

housebound said :

Let’s see an equivalent paper on the costs.

Here ya go :)
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/rail/trains/high_speed/index.aspx

My favourite bit:

The report found that such a network could:
• cost between $61 billion and $108 billion (in $2011) to build and involve laying more than 1,600 kilometres of new standard-gauge, double-track…

So a similar order of magnitude to the NBN basically.

According to a friend the team set up in the Department of Infrastructure to come up with this plan was pretty incompetent.

I mean if they were really serious about developing a plan for such an important nation building project, they would choose some exceptional leaders and highly skilled staff to make up the team.

But they didn’t apparently.

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