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Two boys and a pissing contest

By 30 October 2006 49

Everyone would have read or heard on radio about the continuing saga of EBA arguments [For teachers].

A brief “truce” has since floundered due to actions that the AEU calls deceitful – ACT DET requesting principals to give figures with 5% less high school and 10% less college teachers for the Secondary Transfer Round.

The Minister is adamant that these cuts need to be made in order to accommodate the AEU’s request for a 12% payrise (over 3yrs) for senior classroom teachers and a 9% payrise (over 3yrs) for younger (or less experienced) classroom teachers.

In a statement from the AEU’s website, Clive Haggar condemns the actions of the Minister and ACT DET:

“The ACT Government has now been completely exposed for the hypocrisy of its position in railing against the Federal Government’s Industrial Relations laws whilst at the same time using every avenue provided by those laws to delay and frustrate negotiations for a new teachers’ salaries & conditions agreement.”

Clive and the AEU members who attended Saturday’s meeting voted for more industrial action.

Yesterday’s CT (p.3) indicates the following dates for strikes in November (9:30am-12:30pm):

Monday 6th – All ACT Govt schools
Tuesday 14th – All ACT Govt schools
Tuesday 21st – Molongolo electorate
Wednesday 22nd – Brindabella electorate
Thursday 23rd – Ginninderra electorate
Thursday 30th – All ACT Govt schools

Why don’t they just formulate in the number of people 1) leaving the system and 2) retiring at the end of 2006 to cut out some of the 15% job cuts? Sounds too simple huh?

It’s like two boys having a pissing contest and neither will win.

UPDATE ED: The Canberra Times today has the story that the teachers’ union and Education Minister Andrew Barr are expected to announce today they will enter private mediation. If this is the case, the teachers are likely to call off next Monday’s strike. The Government has also insisted, and the union presumably agreed, that both sides accept the outcome of this provate arbitration in exchange for the matter not being taken to the Industrial Relations Commission.

UPDATE Private Arbitration will occur next week (the week before Christmas) and the AEU are stating that it will be a decision could be reached by mid-January. Please note, this is the reason for the lateness of the secondary transfer round and it will be released 1 week before teaching staff return to work (a week before the students).

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49 Responses to
Two boys and a pissing contest
Woody Mann-Caruso 9:51 pm
30 Oct 06
#1

Everyone would have read or heard on radio about the continuing saga

Erm, no. WTF is an EBA?

nyssa76 10:39 pm
30 Oct 06
#2

Enterprise Bargaining Agreement.

futto 11:01 pm
30 Oct 06
#3

I’m so torn. I can’t stand greedy teacher unions but i also am very annoyed with this government and their petty B.S.

Which side should i defend? Who is right? Am I better off with one or the other?

I’m a DINK with kids a few years away so schools arnt really a focus at the moment.

lateralis 7:01 am
31 Oct 06
#4

Ask yourself what sort of people you want teaching your kids. Underpaid, stressed out types, or happy shiny people!
The unions are overboard, but I suppose they have to be with such a radical slash and burn government.

James-T-Kirk 7:54 am
31 Oct 06
#5

I was sadened to hear that the strikes were simply not – ALL OUT! That way the govmit will notice.

Hey, the salary savings would probably be able to be used to pay for most of the outstanding voluntary contributions, so the kids will be able to have practical lessons when the action is over.

Remember – YOUR EMPLOYER IS HOSTILE – THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT YOU – ASK FOR 10% THIS YEAR, FOLLOWED BY 10% NEXT YEAR AND THE YEAR AFTER…

James-T-Kirk 8:08 am
31 Oct 06
#6

Futto – Alternately, have a look at the private system – You may find that it is surprising affordable. Then the quality of education your kids receive won’t be held hostage by other parents who fail to contribute to the school. You will also find that the teachers are motivated, as they are not underpaid by the government.

che 9:04 am
31 Oct 06
#7

how do all the younger teachers feel getting done over in this deal by Haggar and his cronies?

Thumper 9:32 am
31 Oct 06
#8

Oh, won’t someone just think of the children!

nyssa76 9:38 am
31 Oct 06
#9

Che, I’m a “youngish” teacher. I stated to Clive in the last EBA, when this happened before, that it was unwarranted and did nothing to retain new teachers.

I received a letter back – of a childish nature – abusing me for daring to ask why.

I’m not a union member anymore and I won’t be until Clive leaves.

The private system is just as bad re: discipline. The difference is, they don’t have to take them if they play up.

nyssa76 9:39 am
31 Oct 06
#10

Should be “don’t have to keep them”.

My bad.

James-T-Kirk 9:58 am
31 Oct 06
#11

Thumper – I am thinking of the children – The ones getting an education, not the ones in Government.

I would love my kids to be able to look up to a teacher as somebody to learn from, as a pillar of the community. Not one of the lowly paid people who flip burgers at the Golden Arches.

Andrew 12:11 pm
31 Oct 06
#12

Even though the money lost from striking is probably more than the extra pay rise the teachers are looking for… I understand it’s the princple of the matter, teachers are being offered less than CPI as an increase.

It is sad to see a Labor government which criticises (and rightly so) the new IR laws, and then uses them to their fullest to draw out the process of the teachers pay.

Al 1:31 pm
31 Oct 06
#13

It’s a bit hard to maintain sympathy for the teachers when the strikes are always in the morning, as opposed to the afternoon – when they go home earlier than the rest of us anyway. But what craps me most, is that when you take your kid there at 1pm for the afternoon, none of the teachers have bothered to turn up! What is this? Start work at 1pm and go straight to lunch? So of course no-one takes their kids for the arvo. So we can only claim a half day as carer leave, but end up having to take the rest of the day off on our own time so the poor kid isn’t one of only 3 people (kids and teachers combined) there all arvo.

nyssa76 2:22 pm
31 Oct 06
#14

Al, I don’t know which school you’re referring to but don’t tar ALL schools with that brush.

My children and will be affected too. Luckily for me I have arranged care as I still have to teach on those days.

Besides, blame the AEU and the Govt. The teachers aren’t the ones stuffing around. Hell, some of us don’t even know where we will be placed for Term 1, 2007.

Do you know where you’ll be? I sure as hell don’t.

James-T-Kirk 3:04 pm
31 Oct 06
#15

Nyssa,

I understand where you are coming from. I *love* the crappy placement process that the department uses. My partner is a brand new teacher, and has just been rated as being “outstanding” or some other label like that, so we are waiting to see where (if) she will be placed. At least we know that she has a contract till the end of term. She could end up anywhere from Tugg to Gungahlin.

If an employer I was working for did that trick, and provided that little feedback on where the process was, I wouldn’t be there for very long. Just long enough to arrange the move out of there.

Also, if an employer of mine said I could get 3% as a raise, that simply means that it is below CPI, and that they clearly didn’t need my services.

bighead 5:16 pm
31 Oct 06
#16

Not sure if the Ginanderra one will affect me, but all others will.

Im trying to finish year 12, So one day there is my clearances, the other is in Test week FFS!

Stupid Fucking government….I am trying to finish school with a decent education.

bubzie 5:24 pm
31 Oct 06
#17

4 strikes in 4 weeks?

thats so not cool. like, i have assessment on three of those weeks, which i’m going to miss out on now, and I’m pretty sure theres more people in the same boat as me.

nyssa76 6:42 pm
31 Oct 06
#18

JTK if she got outstanding, she should have been offered permanency.

Did she?

Vic Bitterman 7:24 pm
31 Oct 06
#19

Greedy teachers. Strike all you like, enjoy your docked pays. I’m with Govco on this one.

Andrew 11:00 pm
31 Oct 06
#20

4 strikes in 4 weeks, but only 2 of which will affect any one school. One for everyone, and one for each electorate.

I don’t think it is unfair to ask for a CPI increase.

I know a number of new teachers from last year that were given “Outstanding” but only given contracts.

nyssa76 11:08 pm
31 Oct 06
#21

Vic, look at the AEU.

I refused to vote for a strike (still AEU member – for about 5 more minutes) because I don’t believe in it and because I’m on LWOP this year.

Then also look at the Minister. More work (programming, timetabling, assessment, reports), more initiatives (new curriculum, Federal initiatives – CCE), larger classroom sizes, less time for one on one ETC.

Andrew, I know a few that got 4yr placements and I’m still unattached to a Govt school after 5 yrs. They must think I can “hack it” better than a newbie, especially in the Southern Tuggers area.

Gerry-Built 11:46 pm
31 Oct 06
#22

WorkChoices leaves limited options for industrial action – part-day is about the least harmful to the community.

ACT govt. has been extremely arrogant and underhanded in all dealings with AEU (which is negotiating the EBA on behalf of teachers – as MOST are members, inc. 100% of Principals). Original ‘offer’ made only after last EBA expired. Offered an EBA it knew would be rejected. Used stall-tactics in order to get the ‘agreement’ enshrined in the legislative instrument of a budget. Told the media of latest offers before the AEU (ie members)…

“Greedy teachers” and “Greedy Unions” – WTF!!! – AEU is asking only for what every other state (independent AND public) teachers have received. ACT teachers were asked to make 11% ‘productivity offsets’ in order to secure 12% pay rise – a REAL increase of only 1% (other states – no ‘productivity offsets’). ACT Govt went and made those ‘productivity offsets anyhow – assuming their worthless agreement would be accepted. BTW – every other offer has been a re-hash of the original (or worse).

Also – Clive Haggar enjoys majority support from AEU members.

Get used to industrial action in the ACT, the bus drivers, nurses and then the ACT public service will have the same ‘offers’ from the ACT Govt. over next few months – teachers were just first in line for ‘negotiation’…

Al – you are full of garbage! Teachers have been back on the job by 1230pm on EVERY occasion (or their pay would have been docked another 4 hrs!). And don’t get me started on that crap about teachers leaving after the bell. You go see what teachers ACTUALLY do B4 you bring that crap up. Most of us take work home to do of an evening (marking, prep etc). Go stand in the carpark of your local school, see what time it empties – and look what teachers go home with in their arms!!! I have not left work B4 4.30pm most of this year (unless to attend appointment/meeting) and am normally in before 815am to prep. Most of us do not get lunch breaks either! And don’t get me started on Parent/Teacher, School Open nights, Faculty Open Nights etc…

nyssa76 7:00 am
01 Nov 06
#23

Clive Haggar has the support from the majority of teachers because the majority are over 45yo. He doesn’t care about retaining younger teachers because if he did he would have been working for it 2 EBAs ago.

Also, you don’t see the majority getting 9%. No, that would be rude. Just make the younger teachers – who leave within the first 3-5yrs of teaching (before they “hit” the stage for 12%) – a shitty offer and no one will argue as they are in the minority.

Thumper 8:17 am
01 Nov 06
#24

Clive Haggar is a shiftly looking dude….

nyssa76 8:49 am
01 Nov 06
#25

He also acts like a child (with childish insults) if you disagree with him.

Plus, I have other reasons to despise him, which I won’t put up here. But lets just say he is more concerned with the welfare of older teachers than younger ones.

Gerry-Built 12:32 pm
01 Nov 06
#26

I am most certainly a younger teacher, and AEU member too – and I support Clive and the AEU executive. If you feel he doesn’t represent you, there could only be two reasons:
1. you were outvoted by the majority
2. you had little input to the decision-making process through your sub-branch,

The AEU is definitely the most democratic method we have to negotiate with our Government on pay and conditions. Clive is responsible to the membership, and doesn’t simply ‘decide’ to do things – the membership (or it’s executive) does. If you think he is “more concerned with the welfare of older teachers than younger ones”, well, they make up the majority of the workforce and have more personally invested in the outcomes of negotiations.

The AEU sub-branch at your (last Govt.) school was YOUR way of contributing. If you want to blame someone – blame those that worked on either side of you in the public system you chose to leave – not “the messenger”. Oh, and if you didn’t contribute – Don’t whinge…

On the personal stuff – that’s YOUR own beef. I would however ask how YOU approached Clive? I’ve never known him to be like that.

Those of you that don’t like “strikes” – anyone want to suggest a better form of ‘negotiation’ with a Govt. that refuses to (they haven’t listened to any other approach)? Especially with “WorkChoices” now in place?

Thumper: “Clive Haggar is a shiftly looking dude….” – what a stooooopid comment. ;-P

Gerry-Built 12:44 pm
01 Nov 06
#27

I’m also wondering if Mr Barr is “Moved” yet…

Al 12:46 pm
01 Nov 06
#28

GB re: “Al – you are full of garbage!”
Spouse works in school – has for years. Father in law is a teacher too. And I know what my own eyes see.
And let me throw this quote in from a teacher friend: “I worked out the savings I make on childcare during all the extra holidays we get – I’d have to get paid $120,000 in another job to equal it.”

Thumper 1:04 pm
01 Nov 06
#29

GB, I meant shifty.

And what’s stupid about that? It’s my opinion, not yours Sunshine.

nyssa76 1:33 pm
01 Nov 06
#30

GB, no sorry.

Put in imput, went to all the meetings (at school and out of school hours), dealt with Clive and got a childish response.

Then there was something else – protecting older teachers.

I approached him as a union member, with a concern and wasn’t rude. He came back as a childish twit. He doesn’t like people who ask questions.

And I am not the only teacher to think so.

Don’t defend Clive. My opinion of my dealings with him are just that.

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