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What’s the Government hiding on Light Rail? Toot!

By johnboy - 14 February 2013 31

The Liberals Alistair Coe is asking why the Government won’t answer basic questions about the Capital Metro light rail plan:

The information on light rail the Liberals sought answers to were:

— the timeline for the decision making and construction progress;
— the expected cost to taxpayers of pre-construction and construction;
— the predicted patronage, running costs and staffing once operational;
— the population within reasonable walking distance of a light rail stop;
— plans for park and ride facilities;
— the financial models for funding the project; and
— what feedback was received from Infrastructure Australia as a result of the 2008-federally funded proposal.

“I’m disappointed that the Government is not passing on information about how they intend to honour their huge financial commitment,” Mr Coe said today.

What’s Your opinion?


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31 Responses to
What’s the Government hiding on Light Rail? Toot!
1
Chop71 4:25 pm
14 Feb 13
#

Not hard to answer cos there are no answers.
I hope Mr Coe doesn’t push too hard or he will force them into a spending spree.

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2
Roundhead89 4:56 pm
14 Feb 13
#

Alistair didn’t ask the obvious question – “How much will residents south of the Lake have to pay in extra rates and charges just to keep Gungahlin and Belconnen voting Labor and The Greens back into power?”

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3
LSWCHP 6:31 pm
14 Feb 13
#

A bit of toot stored on a light rail somewhere? Sportsmen all over the country must be paying attention.

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4
dungfungus 6:55 pm
14 Feb 13
#

In BRW 14th November 2013 in an article titled “Engineers sharpen pencils over ACT light rail”, an executive from a reputable rail consultancy firm said (among other things) “the funding of the proposed ACT Light Rail by a PPP would be unlikely as revenue streams to fund the financing would not be strong enough”.
He added that “the PPP on the Gold Coast rapid transit was borderline and it’s probably carrying double the patronage a Canberra system could”.
In laymans’ terms that means the Canberra proposal, so far, is economically unviable.
The mindset that has evolved in the ACT Government is that the heavy, electrified and expensive infrastructure reliant Euro trams must be used however these are only viable in areas of high density population. Canberra has the exact opposite.
The way forward for Canberra is to examine the benefits and economies of ultra light rail (ULR).
Principal advantages are that ULR track costs are much less than conventional track costs and excavation and relocation of services is greatly eliminated, the railcars are cheaper to operate, more fuel flexible, more carbon neutral than buses and the railcars do not require overhead electric lines.
URL networks are totally compatible with shared zones and small railcars are able to cater more efficiently to smaller passenger patronage which would bring tourists and not just commuters into the economic equation.
The cost savings are so great that most of the ACT could be networked at the same time instead of only the current plan to connect the City with Gunghalin. This would immediately triple the potential patronage.
I could go on but I fear the common sense of a URL network proposal presented to the ACT government will only steel their determination to push on with the most expensive and inefficient deal they are offered.

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5
dungfungus 3:41 pm
04 May 13
#

6
gooterz 6:28 pm
04 May 13
#

Still think that the first network should be civic to Woden.

Gungahlin only has one use.. and will only be useful for 4 hours a day!

As bugger all people work in Gungahlin, no one will be on the trains from civic to Gungahlin in the morning (Half wasted) and at night bugger all will goto civic on their way home.

In Woden and civic many people go in each direction of a morning and increasing to Tuggeranong and Belconnen is then much easier.

Idea network would be to have a park and ride between Civic and Belconnen (close to civic) and a park and ride between Woden and Tuggeranong (close to Woden). Build a network between them have a stop somewhere in the middle of Civic and Woden, and release that to developers for some $$$$ to fund the network.

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7
bigred 8:40 pm
04 May 13
#

If I had the spare $$$ I would be buying every unit I could in the Pines complex to make the supernormal profits that will accrue when the Dickson station opens.

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8
Jethro 10:12 pm
04 May 13
#

dungfungus said :

In BRW 14th November 2013 in an article titled “Engineers sharpen pencils over ACT light rail”, an executive from a reputable rail consultancy firm said (among other things) “the funding of the proposed ACT Light Rail by a PPP would be unlikely as revenue streams to fund the financing would not be strong enough”.

What else does your crystal ball see?

(Actually, I agree with the sentiment of your post. Light rail in Canberra does not make financial sense.)

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9
HiddenDragon 10:41 pm
04 May 13
#

Roundhead89 said :

Alistair didn’t ask the obvious question – “How much will residents south of the Lake have to pay in extra rates and charges just to keep Gungahlin and Belconnen voting Labor and The Greens back into power?”

With interest rates being so low (and no chance that they will ever go back up again), and with government debt being something that we never ever really have to worry about, because it will all sort itself out over “the cycle”, I think they should get busy straight away on the southside rail, with branches to Weston and Queanbeyan. Think big, people!

The serious answer to your question is “quite a lot”, and that this will start looking very worrying when the ACT Budget is also dealing with the costs of Gonski, NDIS etc. etc. and with revenue which is sluggish, at best.

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10
gooterz 11:02 pm
04 May 13
#

bigred said :

If I had the spare $$$ I would be buying every unit I could in the Pines complex to make the supernormal profits that will accrue when the Dickson station opens.

Pay inflated price then risk have them not building it?

It’d be great if these great decisions where mapped out in 10, 20, 30 year plans.

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11
dungfungus 12:05 am
05 May 13
#

Jethro said :

dungfungus said :

In BRW 14th November 2013 in an article titled “Engineers sharpen pencils over ACT light rail”, an executive from a reputable rail consultancy firm said (among other things) “the funding of the proposed ACT Light Rail by a PPP would be unlikely as revenue streams to fund the financing would not be strong enough”.

What else does your crystal ball see?

(Actually, I agree with the sentiment of your post. Light rail in Canberra does not make financial sense.)

Appears you are referring to my mistake inputting the article date as 2013 when I meant 2012. The article is still factual.
My “crystal ball” sees the ” Euro Tram / Gold Coast Light Rail” model that Simon Corbell is in love with being totally inappropriate and unviable for the proposed City to Gungahlin tramway. Unfortunately that is what he has committed the Territory to and it will bankrupt us if he “calls it in”.
It will cost Labor the next election and The Green will be left sitting like a shag on a rock without his renewable energy powered trams.

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12
Innovation 6:55 am
05 May 13
#

gooterz said :

Still think that the first network should be civic to Woden.

Gungahlin only has one use.. and will only be useful for 4 hours a day!

As bugger all people work in Gungahlin, no one will be on the trains from civic to Gungahlin in the morning (Half wasted) and at night bugger all will goto civic on their way home.

In Woden and civic many people go in each direction of a morning and increasing to Tuggeranong and Belconnen is then much easier.

Idea network would be to have a park and ride between Civic and Belconnen (close to civic) and a park and ride between Woden and Tuggeranong (close to Woden). Build a network between them have a stop somewhere in the middle of Civic and Woden, and release that to developers for some $$$$ to fund the network.

Agree that the Gungahlin to Dickson section will be very underutilised until more services and office space are built in Gungahlin. If there had been more buses out there to cope with peak demand, with priority and possibly even a dedicated lane along Northbourne, I doubt the Government would have felt forced to promise light rail at the last election. Even if they believe that they can break even, I expect the Government is relying on patronage between Dickson and Civic to achieve this.

As for park and rides between Belco, Woden and the City, why can’t these be built now to encourage use of existing intertown services? Why only one stop on each route? There should be park and ride facilities at most major intersections to encourage people to park their cars as soon as they are near a direct route to their destination. As soon as public transport is faster and cheaper than the cost of driving per km, and simpler, many will instinctively pull over, park and ride.

If there is only one stop on each route, why have one near Woden? Something closer to Cotter Road would pick up a lot of Weston Creek and Molonglo traffic and encourage other Southsiders to park outside the Parl Triangle.

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13
Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 8:05 am
05 May 13
#

gooterz said :

Still think that the first network should be civic to Woden.

Gungahlin only has one use.. and will only be useful for 4 hours a day!

As bugger all people work in Gungahlin, no one will be on the trains from civic to Gungahlin in the morning (Half wasted) and at night bugger all will goto civic on their way home.

In Woden and civic many people go in each direction of a morning and increasing to Tuggeranong and Belconnen is then much easier.

Idea network would be to have a park and ride between Civic and Belconnen (close to civic) and a park and ride between Woden and Tuggeranong (close to Woden). Build a network between them have a stop somewhere in the middle of Civic and Woden, and release that to developers for some $$$$ to fund the network.

Source to any of this?

Report this comment

14
Pork Hunt 11:37 am
05 May 13
#

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

gooterz said :

Still think that the first network should be civic to Woden.

Gungahlin only has one use.. and will only be useful for 4 hours a day!

As bugger all people work in Gungahlin, no one will be on the trains from civic to Gungahlin in the morning (Half wasted) and at night bugger all will goto civic on their way home.

In Woden and civic many people go in each direction of a morning and increasing to Tuggeranong and Belconnen is then much easier.

Idea network would be to have a park and ride between Civic and Belconnen (close to civic) and a park and ride between Woden and Tuggeranong (close to Woden). Build a network between them have a stop somewhere in the middle of Civic and Woden, and release that to developers for some $$$$ to fund the network.

Source to any of this?

Dude, it’s his personal opinion. How the McPhuck is he going have a source?

Report this comment

15
gooterz 11:43 am
05 May 13
#

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

gooterz said :

Still think that the first network should be civic to Woden.

Gungahlin only has one use.. and will only be useful for 4 hours a day!

As bugger all people work in Gungahlin, no one will be on the trains from civic to Gungahlin in the morning (Half wasted) and at night bugger all will goto civic on their way home.

In Woden and civic many people go in each direction of a morning and increasing to Tuggeranong and Belconnen is then much easier.

Idea network would be to have a park and ride between Civic and Belconnen (close to civic) and a park and ride between Woden and Tuggeranong (close to Woden). Build a network between them have a stop somewhere in the middle of Civic and Woden, and release that to developers for some $$$$ to fund the network.

Source to any of this?

Logic

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