22 March 2010

Why building a home in Canberra such expensive???

| flysnow
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I am a new in property market and bought a residential land in the Gungahlin region. Now those days I am busy to traveling from one display home to get some design idea and most important, to find the cost of building.

And guess what? I was so surprise about how greedy and outrageous of the building cost charged by Canberra builders to local people. For example, for a double story home, looking about 220sqm (inclusive of area of Garage), 4 beds, 2 bath, double garage, the start price is around $340K. This price does not include any flooring or front landscaping cost, which you have to pay about more than $20K on top of the start price, also, there may be lots of things not in the standard inclusion list, e.g. gas cook top, change ceiling height from 2.4m to 2.7m, etc. Which means at least you probably look to pay $360k-$400k. That is about $1,500 – $2,000 per sqm !!!!!!!!

Ok, in the mean time I surf many Sydney and Melbourne builders’ website and still for the above house package, start price from $230K-$240K, and with all the upgrades, flooring and front landscaping, total price just over $250K. Example like one of my friend in Melbourne just signed contract with his builder, total area of 358 sqm and total price only $320K, that is about $900 – $1,000 per sqm !!!!!!!!!!!

So how come Canberra builders can charge 50%-100% higher than Sydney or Melbourne builders? Anyone know the reason? DO NOT TELL ME IT IS BECAUSE THE DIFFERENT BUILDING REGULATION FROM STATE TO STATE.

Sorry about the gossip as I feel so angry about the Canberra builders. Rumours I heared before was builders in Canberra make $180K profit from each home they build, and I think builders from Sydney and Melbourne will never dream about to have this high margin on their project.

My final comment: anyone saw this post and is going to build their Australian dream in Canberra, let us work out something together just being not to ripped off by the local builders. If we can put our block of land together and attract some Sydney builder to Canberra to build for us, even there is many additional cost e.g. transportation, I think it is still worth to try it.

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Have you built your home in Canberra yet? If you are already, could you please let the curious and frustrated people like me who are waiting to build on the land purchased how did you end up doing the project? I am very much interested to get Sydney builder if that is what is necessary to deal with this outrageous quote from Canberra builders. Thanks anyway for this forum at least I feel like I not alone in this!!!

Fully agree with Chrisi, Can you tell me the names of those small builders? I hope these builders remain small builders. People want good quality, cheaper houses.By giving me the names of these small builders on this website post will make them big (hope not) cos I know a lot of people in Canberra who are fed up with Canberra builders. They charge a fortune and dont care in the name of service. I have built my house through a Canberra builder and will not go with him again.Looking for a good, honest and most importantly a cheaper builder. As a customer I want to save money (Why not?).

(opps pressed wrong button)

…. but use that gut instinct of the feeling of being taken advantage of, and do something about it. Go to the big builders display homes to see what you like. Then take these floor plans and inclusion lists to a draftsperson and get your own custom designed home drawn up using bits and pieces you like. If you’re serious about building, you’ll be serious about getting these plans drawn up ($2000-3000), but then they are yours to give to any builder (big or small) to quote on.

The alternative?
Get a project home off the shelf from a big name mob, over pay for it, and see your exact house around the corner that a neighbour has as well. Dont be sucked in folks…. its the biggest purchase you’ll make in your life. It’s worth it to do your homework properly and not just rely on conditioning from the display home slicksters.

Travatine, I’d be very interested to know which building company you now work for here in Canberra…. and in particular why you now work here instead of Sydney. I would hazzard a guess that fiscal benefits might have something to do with it.

Very slick arguements you’ve raised to justify the obscene price differences, and I’m sure a lot buyers who raise this issue with you are satisfied with your points, and sign up to your contracts believing the spin.

I take issue with what you said;
“I occasionally encounter a few clients who think they know it all, and then see me later with very humbled looks…” Mate, dont you think that’s a little bit condescending? Clients rightly question the huge price difference, and you make them feel stupid for daring to ask why they are being ripped off- because they are being ripped off when compared to Sydney and Melbourne prices.

You claim that Canberra builders are more fair because they include unforseen costs that interstate builders dont, and that its in fact the interstate builders in the wrong with using bait advertising. Rubbish. Please…. if anyone reading this thread wants any proof, go do a google search on AV Jennings and see for yourself. ACT prices are overinflated to the order of 50% or more for the exact same house in NSW. SAME INCLUSIONS. Better yet, next time you’re in Sydney go out to Kellywille or Rouse Hill and pop into one of the many display homes out there and ask for an inclusions list. Sure, their may be 1 or 2 differences, but believe me…. certainly not $50,000-$100,000 worth. Not even close.

It has nothing to do with “selected information” and uneducated notions of greed. It’s a fact that big name Canberra builders over charge for their services. It’s got nothing to do with extra inclusions included in the price, its because these big name builders stick together on prices and effectively control the market. When most people look to build, they go to display homes and get prices. One after the other they are conditioned to think that these prices are ‘normal’… when in fact they are far from normal.

And how can I be so sure about all this?
I’m a property valuer by profession, thats how. I see building contracts nearly every day. And I’ve seen one house built in Queanbeyan, and the exact same house built in North Canberra with the exact same fitout, and the price difference has NOTHING to do with transporting goods from Sydney or BCA requirements or anything Travatine (or any other building rep) trying to justify the prices. Sure there are minor costs relating to actual contruction and safety (for instance roof railings for roofers and planning permissions), but these costs in no way shape or form can be blamed for the price differences in the contracts.

But at the end of the day, if people are prepared to pay then they’ll keep doing it. But anyone interested in building soon and reading this thread, needs to seriously contemplate getting quotes from smaller builders. They can and will save thousands of dollars. Dont be afraid about warranty’s and insurances (larger builders will use this arguement to scare people into not using small builders)… these are industry protected, regardless of where the actual builder is in 5 years time. Do your homework and slowly slowly as more people vote with their feet and not put up with being ripped off, prices will fall. In the meantime, save yourself a stack of cash and bullcrap marketing about inclusions, and give the smaller builders a call. You’ll either get a ton more house for your money, or a massive saving.

Travatine might sound convincing

Flysnow the difference between Canberra prices quoted and the ones from inter state are different based how they use hook marketing. Canberra builders will include more in the building than Sydney or Melbourne builders. For example Canberra overhead cupboards flush to ceiling level standard – Interstate extra, Heating systems Canberra standard Interstate extra, wet area wall tiling 1200mm Canberra standard interstate extra, driveways and paths Canberra standard interstate extra, termite protection systems mandatory under the BCA Canberra standard interstae extra. I can go on fore ever.This is where the true price differentials come in, not the Greedy notion you are assumming!
Flysnow you need to get into true comparisons not selected information. I how do I know? I use to work for Sydney based building companies and now work here in Canberra and encounter a few clients ocassionally who think they know it all and go off talking to interstate firms and then see me latter with very humbled looks when they get the full contract which does not include what Canberra builders have always provided as standard.

Ok. Skim read through a lot of this and thanks to those who have recommended smaller builders I haven’t heard of before.

Interested in the idea of possibly joining a consortium to bring a builder here from Sydney, how many people on the post are still looking for their builder??

KambahUtd said :

Has anyone noticed that The local government has been jacking up land costs on every subsequent release? Its not only the buidling cost that is the issue, its LAND cost. The local government is ethically conflicted; how can they control both the supply and price of land and then also develop and sell the land, site unseen to the public.

This is a pure as pure monopoly, ECO101. We bought a block in Franklin in 2006 for 180k. In 2008, the same size block went for 228k. Seriously, Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot ?

One of the few people with sense here.

The more I read through the threads here the more I find my hand pressed to my face.

Has anyone noticed that The local government has been jacking up land costs on every subsequent release? Its not only the buidling cost that is the issue, its LAND cost. The local government is ethically conflicted; how can they control both the supply and price of land and then also develop and sell the land, site unseen to the public.

This is a pure as pure monopoly, ECO101. We bought a block in Franklin in 2006 for 180k. In 2008, the same size block went for 228k. Seriously, Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot ?

The cost of materials is basically the same. The reason prices are higher is labour.

We are a booming city with 2 to 3 thousand homes being constructed annually,plus suburb infrastructure and commercial building. There aren’t enough trades people to around as kids would rather get a job in the public service that pays more with better conditions.

Flysnow;

Back to your first comment, have you found anyone else who is interested in trying to bring a builder down from Sydney or up from Melbourne?

I myself am looking at building as well and think that it is a bit of a joke in Canberra.

My mates oldman owns a buiding company (I won’t say who but is well recommended) good quality home builder but a small co. He laughs when people want colourbond roofs, because they charge more for them, even though the cost of materials is cheaper and it is quicker to install then roof tiles. Just because it is popular…

materials also cost alot more down here,as we have very little manufacturing in canberra,going to 2.7mt high ceilings is also a big jump as its not a standard height,everything goes up in price…even down to the painter who now has to work off a ladder instead of a milk crate?very labour intensive…..I didnt think the price was that bad either?..perhaps you should do a bit more research.P.S. i do agree with Scaarj,sydney tradies are one of the worst in australia,but i guess you get what you pay for!!!!!!!!

Further Info:

If you want to try to get something for as cheaply as possible then perhaps you should look into buying land yourself, drawing up plans for your house and pass it around to various builders. Look into their reputation as well as their price though. Visit http://www.lda.act.gov.au for the latest in land releases.

Only downside is that a lot of people are going for this method. The latest release by the LDA was, ‘Aspect’ in Forde, with only 11 blocks on release, people took up camping for a few days to insure themselves a the block that they wanted.

$340k for 4 bedroom, dbl garage sounds pretty cheap to my ears…

This is just the prices you have in Canberra. It’s nothing to do with the builders, it’s because of the land prices they get from the government.

Gungahlin is pretty cut-throat. Builders happily sell for low profit margins. A lot of smaller builders don’t go out there because they’re scared of the low profit margins.

Crace is a different matter, those are all display homes and the majority of Crace wont be built for some time yet. Don’t look there and don’t look in Forde either.

And don’t give me that shit about Sydney builders coming here, ooh no… There are plenty of Sydeny tradesmen and builders here, they don’t get anything done for cheaper at all, and the quality is often shot.

Example, the Village Building Company. Building in multiple places around Australia, through NSW, around Sydney and in QLD. They are looking at picking up more work in Sydney at the moment because the profits are good. Anyways, they just built about 200 homes in Macgregor, which are very much on the cheap end. Some of their houses are actually having difficulty getting passed because of flaws in the construction.

If you want a quality house you need to pay premium.

And one last thing, I actually am a aspiring builder, and have been looking around for land. Last place I looked was in Forde. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to get anything there. Because the cheapest block of land was $308k

The historical booklet at the Downer 50th birthday said it was 25% more expensive to build a house in Canberra than Melb or Syd way back in 1960. So this isn’t exactly a new phenomenon.

because us tradesmen love ripping off you stupid cashed up public servants!

water tank is EER rating is compulsory in ACT but not in NSW so there is add. cost;

Sorry I meant to say “water tank and EER rating are compulsory”

Do not want to see this post fall.

Someone asked more example, to compare the building cost from same design and same builder but one from Sydney and another from Canberra. I only have Rawson Homes Bayview design as an example as this is the only one I approached recently and surprise about the cost difference. I suggest people can view other large Sydney/Mel builder websites as I mentioned before and calculate the unit price (cost per square meters) and will see the huge difference. Examples are:

Eden Brae Homes (Sydney)
Port Davis Homes (Mel)
Burbank (Mel)

Although those above listed builders do not have branches or offices in Canberra, but check out their designs and also check out the standard inclusion list. Most of designs from them are much better than Canberra builders’ project home design but within a reasonable price range to build.

Yes, I did ask Rawson why there is so much difference to build same design same size home between Sydney and Canberra. Answers from them are official and I think most of are craps, e.g. difference regulations from NSW and ACT; water tank is EER rating is compulsory in ACT but not in NSW so there is add. cost; material is more expensive in ACT than in NSW. However, I just do not see how come a $1000 water tank and some hundred dollars regulation fee and EER rating, plus couple of thousand $$ more material can make the difference up to $80K-$100K.

Another purpose of this post is encourage people who had building experience before can either share their good or bad experience and others just joint in the building own home club will know who to go after. Simple I also want to turn this post into experience sharing topic and your comments are very appreciated.

Affordable,

I don’t know why they don’t come to Canberra. I spoke with a local builder mate who builds spec homes to get his opinion of what would happen if Masterton Homes come to Canberra. His reply was we are in trouble or words to that effect.

The price for the septic and water tanks are additional, so if you want to live in Murrumbateman, these costs are additional. However, apples for apples, house for house it’s still over $100,000 cheaper for building the house even after installing septic and tanks.
As far as tradies overcharging, i know of one business (Friend) who supplies and installs a particular product in the building industry, installs this particular product in about four hours with basic trade tools and charges $2100 -$2500. He purchases this product for $900 and he is booked out for the next month. However, I know of other businesses charging $1800 for the same job using the same product/brand/model etc. So as long as people keep paying these prices and accepting them as the norm they will continue to charge the way they do. So, yes shop around there are some businesses out there that aren’t looking at making a killing on every job.

Cranky
had similiar thoughts
Flysnow
how did they justify the difference, assume you did ask them

Flysnow has been copping some flack, but his(?) post re Rawsons charging $88,000 more for the apparent same building (35% more) does require some explanation. I am not singling out Rawsons – I suspect Flysnow probably has further examples.

My personal horror story during a massive reno was being charged $800 to install a double powerpoint in the meter box. It was listed as ‘installing temporary power’. The builder and his legal eagle brother threatened court action unless it was paid. I would like this firm to get their just deserts.

Gungahlin Al2:16 pm 24 Mar 10

Holden Caulfield said :

Gungahlin Al said :

…Peter is also scathing of many of his contemporaries: “It’s not hard – that way’s north.”

Obviously there is a lot more to it than that, and Peter knows it, but it sums up well that most othrs don’t even understand that most basic of premises.

I think it’s worse than that. I’d say the building collective understands said principles, they just CBF. My theory is that it seems as though it’s all a bit too hard for a lot of builders to think about when they can get a bog standard plan approved and sold without any apparent hassles.

So, rather than ignorance, it’s bordering on negligence.

There are good ones out there, though, you just have to be prepared to put in the leg work and do some research so you know what to ask.

Sometimes even when you put the leg work in it’s for nought…

We met with two builders of good display homes out in Bungendore, but despite all the talk on common paths for sustainability, one kept giving us quotes for bog standard brick veneereal, the other no quotes at all… So why did they go to the expense of the display homes you’ve got to wonder?

Holden Caulfield11:27 am 24 Mar 10

Gungahlin Al said :

…Peter is also scathing of many of his contemporaries: “It’s not hard – that way’s north.”

Obviously there is a lot more to it than that, and Peter knows it, but it sums up well that most othrs don’t even understand that most basic of premises.

I think it’s worse than that. I’d say the building collective understands said principles, they just CBF. My theory is that it seems as though it’s all a bit too hard for a lot of builders to think about when they can get a bog standard plan approved and sold without any apparent hassles.

So, rather than ignorance, it’s bordering on negligence.

There are good ones out there, though, you just have to be prepared to put in the leg work and do some research so you know what to ask.

At #7, flysnow said “this is a small country town, demand is little”

Anyoine who thinks Canberra’s housing market is lacking demand is very very mistaken.
So he’s either daft, ignorant or trolling.
Given his grasp of the language in his various posts, my bet’s on ‘daft’.

To answer some people expecially hax’s question, has has done the homework research on the detialed cost from Sydney and Mel builder, however, why not go to most of large Canberra builder’s webiste and you will be surprise to see there is even no standard inclusion list or any additional cost list they wish you want to know.

When I was in Crace display home, I got some large Canberra builders’ standard inclusion list, not surprisely to say, those additional cost are not covered from their list as well and you have to pay extra on top of the base price

Additional services
Fixed price tender including:
• Site inspection by qualified surveyor and engineer – this includes in Canberra builders’ list
• Council building application fees – this does not included
• Construction and warranty insurance premiums – this included but only $1K if buy on market
• Standard Sydney Water Board fees – not applied in Canberra
• Standard surveyor and engineer fees – this does not included

Also, those upgrade from Sydney builders’ list is not in Canberra builders lis as well. But most of the upgrades are necessary and you can not just without them. I think this is the area where Canberra builders make money, you will get a lot less quatation to upgrade similar features from Sydney than in Canberra.

I am glad Azza and affordable have seen the fact which more builders from outside Canberra should come here to join the competition. Unfortunately, some of those large builders. e.g. Rawson, Hotondo has come to Canberra but sadly to say they did not bring the competition but life their price up as the other local builders. The experince I have is I got quotation for the same design project home from Rawson, it is called bayview. Sydney quotation is $247,000 plus upgrades and Canberra price is $335,000 plus upgrade and upgrade are exactly the same.

So that is why I appreciate if people can share more information about smaller local builders, as large builders they already know Canberra is the hot place to make profit and will not keep price level as same as Sydney.

Azza

the big question is why do they not come here and make alledged bigger profits for travelling extra 18km to Canberra, anyway AVJennings, Rawsons and Hotondo are already here.
as for tradies and builders there certainly can be some discrepancies locally so shop around
as for the house in Murrumbateman is the $30,000 + for water tank and septic included in the “completed ” house price .

Flysnow :

Look closely at the ‘fine print’ of these builders you mentioned

note: eaves, applied finishes, alarm, dishwasher, air conditioner, spa, built in furniture, floor coverings, light fittings, kitchen and bathroom upgrades, downlights, fireplace, bi-fold doors, feature walls, window coverings, landscaping, external paving, irrigation, decking, retaining walls, pergolas, clothes line, CBUS and rainwater tanks are not included.

Additional services
Fixed price tender including:
• Site inspection by qualified surveyor and engineer
• Council building application fees
• Construction and warranty insurance premiums
• Standard Sydney Water Board fees
• Standard surveyor and engineer fees

The additional services appear to be quoted on a house by house basis – ie Those costs are not included the ‘headline’ price, before you get an actual quote.

These are just a few points I quickly found on one of the sydney builders websites you provided, which back up my previous claim.

You’re lucky, we can’t even afford to buy a house at the moment, and trying to save a deposit while paying rent is proving almost impossible. If we do end up being able to save one, we won’t be able to afford repayments on a house more than $380K and they are like hen’s teeth to find. You may be able to get a two bedroom townhouse but with 4 of us including 2 growing daughters, it would just be out of the question. The three bedroom townhouse we are currently renting is proving to be a bit too small. Keep buying my $2.45 lotto ticket each week and keep fingers crossed xxxx. lol

Masterton Homes and a few country builders need to come to Canberra and give local builders a bit of competition.
You can buy a brick veneer 30.9 sq home in either Murrumbateman or Yass from $214,000 completed.
I have heard that Masterton Homes work on rebates to bring their prices down and there are other local builders in Yass with competitive prices who don’t work on rebates.
We are talking 18 km to Murrumbateman and about 40km to Yass. So to say the transportation of materials to Canberra or lack of tradesman is the reason for the high prices in Canberra is wrong.
I also have a couple of mates that are building there own places in Franklin as owner builders and both houses are more than 30sq’s. Most of the tradies they are using are from Sydney because they get more for less and have saved tens of thousands of dollars.
Its a simple matter of Canberra builders have had it to good for to long.

Flysnow are you trolling or just plain stupid, Hax and Pandy are correct if you did any research Sydney and Melbourne builders have massive add on’s like no floor and any work below it and your worried about floor coverings on something that doesn’t exist as well heating,insulation,plans,council fees,supervisors fees and then the huge site costs are all extras, and after they have quoted all these items check that doors and windows are included and do not forget the gas cooktop

Thanks sloppery and Gungahlin Al for your great information. Anyone know more good local builders or share their experience?

Gungahlin Al5:17 pm 23 Mar 10

flysnow said :

And and recommendation of good local builders?

I have not used him, but I have had several discussions with Peter Jacobs of Deemro Homes. The guy understands sustainable designs principles, and that is a BIG jump up from the majority (overwhelming?) of Canberra builders.

Peter is also scathing of many of his contemporaries: “It’s not hard – that way’s north.”

Obviously there is a lot more to it than that, and Peter knows it, but it sums up well that most othrs don’t even understand that most basic of premises.

Try Master Homes for a quoute. I’ve used them and been very happy.

Flysnow, Actually, the point of this thread seems to be for you to have a whine about policies you don’t like and to give unsubstantiated (and thus far disproved especially by Skidblanir @ #6) claims about how building in Canberra costs double what it does elsewhere.
Could it be that planning policy is done for reasons other than to suit you?
To take an example you quoted, the 50% of plot size. Why on earth do you need to put a building on 70% of your land? To do so causes several problems *beyond* your boundaries that are all within the scope of issues dealt with by government, even if you do not deem them important.
If you’re such a sage about the planning policies, why don’t you got work for them? Or get yourself elected to change them? Or do something beyond whining about them by using false data?

I found some people are not thinking in the right direction of this topic. The orignial meaning for this topic is discuss why building cost in Canberra is much more expensive than Syd and Mel. Thanks for the valuable opinion from Holden Caulfield and JC.

Demand and supply, that is the main issue. And to increase the supply, government need to speed up on the planning and approval of new suburbs, or increase the number of block available for release in new suburb, which means reduce the size of each single block, max up to 400 sqm. At the meantime, re-consider the stupid plot ratio policy and allow people to build up to 60%-70% of the block size from current 50%.

Also, increase the supply on Mid-desinty and High desinty property type, e.g. apartments, townhouse and terrce house.

And and recommendation of good local builders?

Houses are expensive? Who woulda thunk it?
If the price differtial really is in the range you say it is FlySnow (and I have my doubts) then surely you can get someone to do it cheaper for less of a markup. If you can’t, then maybe you’re screaming out your rear?
Houses in Aust are overpriced. And they’re overpriced because people with more money than sense will pay the ridiculous prices the market is demanding. If you don’t like it, move to New Zealand. Eh bro?

Pretty much since the bushfires, cost of labour went up as there was a huge demand for skilled labour

I am surprised only one PP has mentioned the mentality floating around after the bushfires. A mate who is in the building trades was begged to come down here from Sydney by several companies, all of whom offered a variation on the theme “you can charge what you like because the insurance companies are paying for it”.

That put the prices up and they haven’t gone back down again.

Melbouren prices all show gift inclusions of something around $50,000 for a fancier kitchen better bathroom fittings on standard dsiplay like houses. But when you ask them, what is the price for the house as displayed (sans landscaping) they will say oh thats another $100,000. So maybe your so called afforadable houses in melbourne are a furphy

Holden Caulfield8:38 am 23 Mar 10

@JC, yes, you’re right, rising house prices isn’t all beer’n’skittles. Still, better to have bought when you did than to be faced with the prospect now.

Holden Caulfield said :

Erm, probably the price of your house! Actually, I would suggest it may have increased by over 200%.

We built in Nicholls in late 99, got the keys in January 2000 and our 3 bedroom home of around 175m2 cost us approx $130K. Land cost for our 680m2 block was just over $70K. We sold in mid-2004 for over $420K. You’d reckon it would be close to $600K now, or approaching three times the price we paid for house an land a smidge over 10 years ago.

Yes, good point, my place has gone up in value by about 3 times. My land cost $50,000, and the whole place now valued at a tad over $400k. This is all well and good, except that rise is on paper only.

The example I guess goes to show why it is so expensive to build now. Basically the cost of established houses has gone up due to lack of supply in the new home market. This has lead to builders charging what they want, thus keeping existing home prices high, thus builders charging what they want, thus forcing existing home prices up, etc etc. Something has to give when it gets to the point where no one can afford to buy or for that matter rent. We cannot be that far off. I mean to say when I built in 2000 the mortgage was less than 3 times my then income which was $60k. In those 10 years through promotion I now earn $100k but to buy the same ENTRY level place would cost over 4 times my income. Though of course with a higher mortgage comes a higher level of interest to pay (in real terms not %) which means the cost of repayments for the same place would be closer to 5 times. Simply not affordable.

Also not affordable for me to upsize and due to ridiculously high building costs not viable to extend. In fact probably cheaper to knock down and rebuilt, crazy for a 10 year old house.

At least its cheaper then the School building scam set up by Rudd making instant millionaires by contracting labor mates to build covered basket ball courts and halls at $11,000 per square metre. I look forward to the Royal Commission on this and other scams once Rudd gets kicked out.

SolarPowered11:06 pm 22 Mar 10

pptvb said :

You bought a block in Gungahlin.
Enough said.

Sydney Snobbery is alive and well and living wherever the hell you live.

Pretty much since the bushfires, cost of labour went up as there was a huge demand for skilled labour. … I’m good mates with an estimator who works for one of canberra’s big builders, and I’m looking at doing some work on my current house. it unfortunately costs what it does to do work here, simple as that.

flysnow said :

Thanks for the stupid plot ratio of 50% restriction, people can only build half the block size….

Holy Crap!!!!111!!1

My block is just shy of 1200sqm, and our house is something in the order of 120sqm. 50%? WOW!

To reply georgesgenitals level 15, sure I can afford, I just do not want to be ripped off. I believe most of us here made hard saving for the past years to build their dream, and when you find you need to much more extra to build in Canberra something similar as Sydney or Melbourne, do not you think it need to question why? Then probably you find all your hard saving is gift to local builders.

If we kept quiet and just think this is normal economic cycle and property price should go up and up, building cost should up and up, there is no other reason but purely economic cycle, then I guess our kids may be need to rent for the whole of their lives.

I think now it is time to change the direction of the topic. Can people start to share their building experience and recommend some good Canberra builders?

Up The Duffy10:20 pm 22 Mar 10

“The Croatian Building Cartel” and the fact that they own the ALP and run the Libs in the ACT.

Some poor Real-estate agent tried to take them on in Harrison a couple of years ago and came out 2nd best. (Named Z … Something?)

Just don,t buy their over-priced poorly build houses, and live in a over priced house in a older suburb closer to Civic instead.

Its just one of the pitfalls of living in the Village of Canberra.

To reply hax in level 11, I checked both standard inclusion list from Sydney and Melbourne builder compare with Canberra builder, surprise to say Canberra builders’ cost is even not close to realistic, as things like flooring coverage, gas cook top etc which included in Sydney builders standard inclusion list but not in Canberra builders’ standard inclusion list. Which means you pay extra to get those suppose to be the standard feature of your house in Canberra.

220sqm is the max size of house we can build on our block, this includes double garage which take away 36sqm-40sqm, left with 180-185sqm for actual living size. Thanks for the stupid plot ratio of 50% restriction, people can only build half the block size house but for a big family, I do not think this is reasonable. Actually I think it is not reasonable at all, as why can not we build up to 60% or 70% of the land area, for a 500 sqm block, 30% outdoor area still means 150 sqm, isn’t that enough?

Some people say I did not compare apple with apple, then I suggest them to go some large Sydney or Melbourne builders website to check the price, there are:

Eden Homes (Sydney)
Rawson Homes (Sydney)
Port Davis (Melbourne)
Burbank (Melbourne)

After check the price, go to Crace display village to ask the standard price for the display homes, then come back to let me know whether you find Canberra builders are outrageous.

Yup, houses here are overpriced. Have to agree with Axe Man – we went though Gold Ruby who are upfront with costs and how much they add on to the total. And their prices were fairly reasonable compared to other builders. Just make sure that the communications between you and Goldruby are clear, then you shouldn’t have any problems with them.

You bought a block in Gungahlin.
Enough said.

Woody Mann-Caruso8:49 pm 22 Mar 10

oh noes my mcmansion is expensive why i get the penalised by the bad canberra builder i entitled to cheap house

Why don’t you just MOVE TO SYDNEY already?

Holden Caulfield7:53 pm 22 Mar 10

JC said :

Tend to agree the price is way too high. I had my house built in 2000 (after the GST was introduced might I add) for $101,000. My place is 12 squares+garage=(150m2) or $673m2. It is a medium finish house, so based on the prices above the costs have doubled in 10 years. What else has doubled in 10 years, certainly not my wages!

Erm, probably the price of your house! Actually, I would suggest it may have increased by over 200%.

We built in Nicholls in late 99, got the keys in January 2000 and our 3 bedroom home of around 175m2 cost us approx $130K. Land cost for our 680m2 block was just over $70K. We sold in mid-2004 for over $420K. You’d reckon it would be close to $600K now, or approaching three times the price we paid for house an land a smidge over 10 years ago.

georgesgenitals7:11 pm 22 Mar 10

It costs what it costs. Instead of building something that big, try starting with a smaller property then moving up as and when you are ready. If you CAN afford this now, why the whinge?

Tend to agree the price is way too high. I had my house built in 2000 (after the GST was introduced might I add) for $101,000. My place is 12 squares+garage=(150m2) or $673m2. It is a medium finish house, so based on the prices above the costs have doubled in 10 years. What else has doubled in 10 years, certainly not my wages!

Maybe you should have looked into this prior to buying a block of land?

Supply and demand, materials costs and shortage of skilled labour all contribute to higher costs. …. deal with it

troll-sniffer4:29 pm 22 Mar 10

220 sq m? Sounds like a fully-fledged McMansion to me. You could downsize to fit into your budget, there’s a thought. Previous generations managed on much smaller homes.

I suspect you’re not comparing apples with apples.

Besides, there are a number of ‘Sydney builders’ already in Canberra..

Canberra builders prices are more realistic and include most of the actual cost up front, so no need to spend an extra $50k-$100k when your house is ‘finished’

I would be interested to see the exact inclusions and specifications for the houses your basing your comparison – do they even include council fees, water tank, insulation etc..? (I think you’ll find some major discrepancies)

Try Goldruby. http://www.goldruby.com.au/
They don’t do display homes though.
They also don’t charge for getting your own appliances or making modifications

Gungahlin Al12:40 pm 22 Mar 10

It’s absurd isn’t it that they only give estimates for brick veneereal?
Brick is the last thing you want to build an external skin out of here. (Anywhere in Australia actually.)

There are other materials out there…

I think CWB summed it up fairly succinctly.

But there are things you can do. Perhaps you need to stop and think about whether you really need that 4th bedroom? Assess what you need, as opposed to what you want (or worse: what the industry has convinced you is the minimum now).

And can you reconfigure the layout to reduce costs – like having one big open plan living/kitchen area. Design your bathrooms so that you don’t need shower screens – saves money, reduces cleaning costs and chemical use.

A key thing is to include up front the positives that can never be added afterwards – like hydronic heating instead of horrible ducted gas, piping your whole roof to the tank, better base materials selection, better windows, slab edge insultation. All of these things make for a more comfortable, and cheaper to operate home. They are all ‘no regrets’ options.

And remember to leave money for a proper landscape design up front (not the crap the building designer gives you to pass the DA). This will allow you to factor in requirements during building (like conduits under drives/paths, electricity supply for lights/ponds, gas supply for barbies, courtyards, and more). Money up front that will save you heaps down the line.

There are good resources around. I’d suggest the display homes are one though.

Ask around for more quotes. There are builders with not enough large jobs on at the moment, and you will find one that will do it for a better price. Also, ask the builder about ways to reduce the cost by using different shapes or sizes of rooms. Bear in mind that many bulding contracts include an allowance for things like tiles, bathroom furniture, kitchen, etc, and as such these are areas where significant savings can be made.

Thanks Skidbladnir , that is quite interesting information. As using Sydney as 100 base, Canberra is at the range of 96 – 104. However, the reality is residential building cost is 50-100% higher than Sydney, so if we use Sydney as 100 base, then Canberra is in the range of 150-200.

People are right about the material cost as material needs to shift from Sydney. However, I do think this will increase the cost by 50-100%, the additional transport should be only within 15% of the value of the cost, talking about large quantity of material. Ot

Labor cost is another reason, but under the apprentice scheme which every state government support, Canberra should have similar rate as Sydney and Melbourne. But labour shortage is another storey, while no apprentice available, builder have to hire more expensive contractors.

Overall, I still do not understand how come Canberra residential building cost so much higher. But one thing is true, this is small country town, demand is little and competition is minor, so that is why builders in Canberra can charge whatever they want.

For my own case, I will seek independent smaller builder to build my house, because even large builders they can not always be trusted. Plus, if I can gather more people to join with me, then there is a chance to ask Sydney builder to Canbbera to build for us with lower cost.

Finally, all Sydney builders, you are more than welcome to Canberra to bring the competition!!!

If you want a comparison, courtesy of BMT Quantity Surveyors.
http://www.bmtqs.com.au/construction_cost_table.htm

They use Sydney as a basleine and then give percentage ranges for locations, Canberra gets 96%-104% of Sydney costs.
Residential
3br brick veneer project home, level block, shelf design
Low-cost finishing $980
Median-cost finishing $1,250
High-cost finishing $1,580

Architecturally designed executive residence
Low-cost finishing $2,100
Median-cost finishing $3,250
High-cost finishing $4,900

3br, 2 level brick veneer townhouse, including allowance for common property
Low-cost finishing $1,260
Median-cost finishing $1,480
High-cost finishing $2,200

3 level walk-up unit complex, concrete structure ground floor parking
Low-cost finishing $1,420
Median-cost finishing $1,700
High-cost finishing $2,200

Multi-level apartment building, including lift and basement car parking
Low-cost finishing $1,600
Median-cost finishing $1,970
High-cost finishing $2,940

Holden Caulfield10:42 am 22 Mar 10

If it makes the OP feel any better it’s going to cost us around the same to renovate our 1950s home and extend it with a dbl garage, ensuite and living area. So much for our 200K budget, haha.

At least you will be getting a brand new home!

captainwhorebags10:02 am 22 Mar 10

Why does it cost so much?

Because you’ll pay it. And if you don’t, someone else will.

DeadlySchnauzer9:58 am 22 Mar 10

Additional material supply costs. Canberra builders have to ship in materials from Sydney or Melbourne. If you get a Sydney builder to come to Canberra, they will be facing those same costs, and will charge you more.

Then you get to the trades shortages. Canberra has a relatively smaller pool of tradesmen (blame the cost of living here), so they can charge pretty outrageous prices, which the builder has to pass on to you.

It would be an interesting experiment to get some quotes from out of town builders and see what kind of price you get. They will definitely not give you melb/sydney prices, but you may get cheaper than canb builders. Don’t know if anyone has experience with this?

People are willing and continue to pay these high price, as such, that is the price the market has set.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/canberra-tops-in-prosperity-poll/1782445.aspx?src=rss

http://stonehomes.com.au/double-storey.php

Couldn’t be worse than we alrady see around Canberra.

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