Why does Tony hate science?

Robertson said :

neanderthalsis said :

Robertson said :

milkman said :

Sheesh, the guy is happily married, has a great family, is a fitness nut, helps out regularly with community organisations.

He was also quite upfront with Australia about reducing the public service and government spending in general, during his election campaign.

Yeah, he’s a politician, so you known deals are being done to get things through, and there are always improvements that he could make. But many of the comments here are a complete overreaction.

He’s an aggressive arse who stands over women, tells lies, promotes a morally bankrupt ideology and does the bidding of a foreigner who runs a corrupt media empire that is currently or has recently been the subject of numerous inquiries and criminal prosecutions on account of criminal behaviour in the UK.

Sounds suspiciously like you’re describing Kevin Rudd’s happy side.

No, it doesn’t. You’re in denial and projecting.

Go talk to people who actually worked for Rudd, you might get a different view.

When you get down to, both Abbott and Rudd have shortcomings. Rudd was more of a sociopath, Abbott a bit more of a conservative.

Neither are what I would consider a good choice for PM. What we really need is some new blood in politics.

Why does Tony Abbott hate science?

Because Tony Abbott is a) a Politician; and b) a Conservative.

Contrast that with Science which is a) a-political by design; and b) innately progressive in nature.

Science is the antithesis of Tony Abbott’s beliefs and values. That’s why he hates it.

neanderthalsis said :

Robertson said :

milkman said :

Sheesh, the guy is happily married, has a great family, is a fitness nut, helps out regularly with community organisations.

He was also quite upfront with Australia about reducing the public service and government spending in general, during his election campaign.

Yeah, he’s a politician, so you known deals are being done to get things through, and there are always improvements that he could make. But many of the comments here are a complete overreaction.

He’s an aggressive arse who stands over women, tells lies, promotes a morally bankrupt ideology and does the bidding of a foreigner who runs a corrupt media empire that is currently or has recently been the subject of numerous inquiries and criminal prosecutions on account of criminal behaviour in the UK.

Sounds suspiciously like you’re describing Kevin Rudd’s happy side.

No, it doesn’t. You’re in denial and projecting.

Robertson said :

milkman said :

Sheesh, the guy is happily married, has a great family, is a fitness nut, helps out regularly with community organisations.

He was also quite upfront with Australia about reducing the public service and government spending in general, during his election campaign.

Yeah, he’s a politician, so you known deals are being done to get things through, and there are always improvements that he could make. But many of the comments here are a complete overreaction.

He’s an aggressive arse who stands over women, tells lies, promotes a morally bankrupt ideology and does the bidding of a foreigner who runs a corrupt media empire that is currently or has recently been the subject of numerous inquiries and criminal prosecutions on account of criminal behaviour in the UK.

Sounds suspiciously like you’re describing Kevin Rudd’s happy side.

Robertson said :

milkman said :

Sheesh, the guy is happily married, has a great family, is a fitness nut, helps out regularly with community organisations.

He was also quite upfront with Australia about reducing the public service and government spending in general, during his election campaign.

Yeah, he’s a politician, so you known deals are being done to get things through, and there are always improvements that he could make. But many of the comments here are a complete overreaction.

He’s an aggressive arse who stands over women, tells lies, promotes a morally bankrupt ideology and does the bidding of a foreigner who runs a corrupt media empire that is currently or has recently been the subject of numerous inquiries and criminal prosecutions on account of criminal behaviour in the UK.

I’m guessing you must know Tony personally to be able to make this kind of assertion.

milkman said :

Sheesh, the guy is happily married, has a great family, is a fitness nut, helps out regularly with community organisations.

He was also quite upfront with Australia about reducing the public service and government spending in general, during his election campaign.

Yeah, he’s a politician, so you known deals are being done to get things through, and there are always improvements that he could make. But many of the comments here are a complete overreaction.

He’s an aggressive arse who stands over women, tells lies, promotes a morally bankrupt ideology and does the bidding of a foreigner who runs a corrupt media empire that is currently or has recently been the subject of numerous inquiries and criminal prosecutions on account of criminal behaviour in the UK.

BimboGeek said :

Can we just not talk about any politicians having sex? They are hideously revolting people.

Hang on a minute – I can’t let you tar Sarah Palin with your brush…

Barcham said :

Exactly. You’re a house husband. They exist. There are also plenty of working men and women who iron and look after the power bills too.

Tony however seems to believe that it’s just the wives who do that.

Wasn’t there a union/Labor ad during the recent election which showed a woman explaining why we couldn’t trust Mr Abbott…while she did the ironing?

Maybe Labor also think that it’s just wives who do ironing.

Sheesh, the guy is happily married, has a great family, is a fitness nut, helps out regularly with community organisations.

He was also quite upfront with Australia about reducing the public service and government spending in general, during his election campaign.

Yeah, he’s a politician, so you known deals are being done to get things through, and there are always improvements that he could make. But many of the comments here are a complete overreaction.

Can we just not talk about any politicians having sex? They are hideously revolting people.

Darkfalz said :

Robertson said :

How about you analyse Abbott’s private sexual life as well?

What is there to analyse? Happily married for 20+ years.

Liar, but I’m not getting into it, that sort of filth is your game.

Robertson said :

How about you analyse Abbott’s private sexual life as well?

What is there to analyse? Happily married for 20+ years.

Barcham said :

Exactly. You’re a house husband. They exist. There are also plenty of working men and women who iron and look after the power bills too.

Tony however seems to believe that it’s just the wives who do that.

He never said only women do the ironing. However, and this is still true today, women do the majority of ironing in the household – in many cases because they feel their men do a lousy job of it. Even a lazy Google search reveals several studies supporting this.

Do you get hot under the collar every time you see a laundry detergent ad with a woman doing the washing? Is this evil sexism at work? Or are they advertising to the one in the household most likely to do the laundry and therefore buy the product?

This is that new sexism nonsense, where if you talk about a woman cooking or cleaning or doing anything other than being a CEO or lawyer, you’re a chauvinist who believes they should be in the kitchen and nowhere else. Most rational people however realise that most women still have to cook and clean, as do most men, and despite sharing much of the workload individual tasks are still going to be split along traditional gender lines.

In short, a lot of housewives still do ironing, and many are concerned about day to day cost of living. Anything else made of it is just ADS.

Robertson said :

Darkfalz said :

Sensible adults like the member for wandering members, Bill Shorten? The man who got to where is by providing the knives to the last two coups? The guy who knocked up his current trophy wife while still married to the last one, and rumour has it, also knocked up a staffer he then made have an abortion?

Rightards. Always cherry-picking.

How about you analyse Abbott’s private sexual life as well?

Yep, stones in glass houses and all that.

surely we need an un-mully for barcham for not setting fire to busloads of orphans loads of times…

bearlikesbeer said :

“What the housewives of Australia need to understand as they do the ironing is that if they get it done commercially it’s going to go up in price and their own power bills when they switch the iron on are going to go up.”

Barcham, how does this quote demonstrate that Abbott a horrible human? I am a househusband. My duties include doing the household ironing (often while watching politicians on TV), and paying attention to the household electricity bills.

Exactly. You’re a house husband. They exist. There are also plenty of working men and women who iron and look after the power bills too.

Tony however seems to believe that it’s just the wives who do that.

Not only that but the comment reeks of his contempt for women. Tony was trying to explain to the women of Australia what was going to happen under the emissions trading scheme, and he did so by explaining it through an example that their women brains could understand, like ironing.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this comment and letting my disgust influence me? Maybe I’m seeing bigotry where there is none? I disagree as I think this comment fits well into the pattern of his behavior, but it’s important to always consider that you may be mistaken

If you like you can ignore this quote. The other quotes do a fine job of making my point without needing this one.

Darkfalz said :

Sensible adults like the member for wandering members, Bill Shorten? The man who got to where is by providing the knives to the last two coups? The guy who knocked up his current trophy wife while still married to the last one, and rumour has it, also knocked up a staffer he then made have an abortion?

Rightards. Always cherry-picking.

How about you analyse Abbott’s private sexual life as well?

“What the housewives of Australia need to understand as they do the ironing is that if they get it done commercially it’s going to go up in price and their own power bills when they switch the iron on are going to go up.”

Barcham, how does this quote demonstrate that Abbott a horrible human? I am a househusband. My duties include doing the household ironing (often while watching politicians on TV), and paying attention to the household electricity bills.

Masquara said :

The only thing Abbott has done that’s actually cringeworthy has been calling his daughters “hot” and then pimping them on Big Brother. Everything else pales next to those episodes of poor judgement!

You put quotes around “hot” when he actually said “not bad looking”. Yes, it was tasteless, and perhaps shows a disconnect with appealing to the 20 something generation (vastly overrated IMO and something Gillard/Rudd tried far too hard to emulate since it sort of worked for Obummer) but if you’re going to paraphrase to something worse, don’t use quotation marks.

Robertson said :

It’s called Democracy, Darkfalz, and another 3 years of the kind of domestic & national embarrassment we’ve seen over the last 2 weeks will result in a return of relatively sensible adults to power in this country.

Sensible adults like the member for wandering members, Bill Shorten? The man who got to where is by providing the knives to the last two coups? The guy who knocked up his current trophy wife while still married to the last one, and rumour has it, also knocked up a staffer he then made have an abortion?

Yet to you, Abbott is the one without judgement or morals. Because he didn’t manage to fix 6 years of bad government in 2 months.

Back in reality, the first Newspoll since the election has the current government increasing both primary vote and PM’s popularity. Good luck with that.

The level of AbbottAbbottAbbott around here is so high now that Fairfax would probably buy the Riot if they had any money left.

Darkfalz said :

beejay76 said :

They have to govern for all, and that means respecting the 55% as well as their own voters.

You mean like Gillard/Rudd did, bringing in a carbon tax at the behest of a party which 92% didn’t vote for?

I never voted to pay income tax, either – can we dump that?

The ALP said there would be a price on Carbon. They didn’t get the numbers, so we ended up the scheme that had majority support instead.

It’s called Democracy, Darkfalz, and another 3 years of the kind of domestic & national embarrassment we’ve seen over the last 2 weeks will result in a return of relatively sensible adults to power in this country.

The Carbon tax/ETS/whatever is a policy issue involving economics. The experts in economics tell us it is very sensible to put a price on carbon.
– They also tell us Wayne Swann was one of the most outstanding treasurers of the GFC and post-GFC world.
– They also tell us the previous Howard government was the most profligate government in over 50 years of AUstralian economic history.

But you carry on ignoring the relevant subject-matter experts in favour of believing the nonsense being fed to you by Peta Credlin and her media advisors, why don’t you…

DrKoresh said :

Gotta go with Barchy here, being a total WASP doesn’t score points with me, and it definitely doesn’t alleviate Tone’s abhorrent view. Especially considering the obvious disdain he has for the people he’s in charge of governing.

Hmmm…any idea what the “P” in “WASP” stands for?

Darkfalz said :

beejay76 said :

They have to govern for all, and that means respecting the 55% as well as their own voters.

You mean like Gillard/Rudd did, bringing in a carbon tax at the behest of a party which 92% didn’t vote for?

Aaah the Carbon tax. The scapegoat for everything that has gone up in price the last year. My power bills actually went up 10% Pa for several years before the Carbon tax. This year they went up another 10%. Must have been the Carbon tax. After all its an easy way of scaring voters into voting for you. I don’t think I’ve seen a single fact come out of the coalition regarding the carbon tax.

By all means abolish it, at least give credible reasons why and what you are doing instead. Then again, they are dumping the super tax that only affects millionaires and also cutting the low income super contribution scheme. After all we want the poorer people to rely on a pension and not their own super! Surely that doesn’t even make sense to the most one eyed coalition voter!

beejay76 said :

They have to govern for all, and that means respecting the 55% as well as their own voters.

You mean like Gillard/Rudd did, bringing in a carbon tax at the behest of a party which 92% didn’t vote for?

Barcham said :

Because I’ve not set fire to orphans heaps of times.

Well it’s good that you check beforehand.

Prime Minister material right there!

Barcham said :

I could go on copying and pasting forever, as the man rarely manages to move past a microphone without something foul and cold slipping from his mouth, but I believe I’ve made my point.

There in lies the problem. Since the Liberal party wised up on what a prick the man is, he has more or less kept his mouth shut. He has appeared on selected TV shows to sprout his 3 word slogans, but not much more. These Libs are quite cleaver actually, keep the man quiet, let the real people do all the work and take the fall and continue to blame Labor for ever evil in the world. The silly thing is the people actually believe it.

breda said :

Meanwhile, JC redefines democracy:

“1. there is no such thing as a mandate.”

Hilarious. I hope you realise that this cuts both ways, JC, i.e. no matter who has won an election. And, I look forward to your explanation of how this would actually work – although it does explain Julia Gillard’s famous “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead” quote.

Actually, I tend to agree with JC. the Coalition received roughly 45% of first preference votes. That means that 55% of Australian voters primarily preferred someone else. While they easily had the numbers to form government I don’t think it means they have free reign to do whatever they like. They have to govern for all, and that means respecting the 55% as well as their own voters. This does not just apply to this government, but to all. Government has to be about balance, negotiation and compromise, otherwise you end up with a dictatorship. Naturally each government will pursue their party policies. However, it has to be in the context of a wider Australia, which is where the Senate usually kicks in. I believe (although I may well be wrong) this is why the Senate has a proportional voting system.

The only thing Abbott has done that’s actually cringeworthy has been calling his daughters “hot” and then pimping them on Big Brother. Everything else pales next to those episodes of poor judgement!

Gotta go with Barchy here, being a total WASP doesn’t score points with me, and it definitely doesn’t alleviate Tone’s abhorrent view. Especially considering the obvious disdain he has for the people he’s in charge of governing.

breda said :

Barcham says:

“I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.”
——————————-
You have an interesting definition of a “horrible human being.”

Here is a guy who has abided by the law, stayed loyal to his wife and raised his daughters, has volunteered for his local bushfire brigade and surf lifesavers for many years, and spent some of his free time helping out in remote Aboriginal communities.

I look forward to hearing in what way this makes him “horrible” and what the records of your preferred “non-horrible” leaders look like in comparison.

Here’s a few little tidbits that helpfully demonstrate why I consider him a horrible human:

“The argument [behind climate change] is absolute crap. However, the politics of this are tough for us. Eighty per cent of people believe climate change is a real and present danger.”

“If we’re honest, most of us would accept that a bad boss is a little bit like a bad father or a bad husband %u2026 you find that he tends to do more good than harm. He might be a bad boss but at least he’s employing someone while he is in fact a boss.”

“What the housewives of Australia need to understand as they do the ironing is that if they get it done commercially it’s going to go up in price and their own power bills when they switch the iron on are going to go up.”

Or perhaps…

“I think there does need to be give and take on both sides, and this idea that sex is kind of a woman’s right to absolutely withhold, just as the idea that sex is a man’s right to demand I think they are both they both need to be moderated, so to speak.”

I could go on copying and pasting forever, as the man rarely manages to move past a microphone without something foul and cold slipping from his mouth, but I believe I’ve made my point.

The fact that he is a family man is irrelevant, how does having a family mean you can’t be a bad person?

If Tony not cheating on his wife makes him a good person does not setting a bus full of orphans on fire make me a hero?

Because I’ve not set fire to orphans heaps of times.

The loss of those 600 jobs hasn’t got much to do with TAbbott, but there are ways he and other stakeholders could boost employment, income and outcomes of CSIRO.

CSIRO provides a highly valuable link between research and industry, making it much easier for ideas in the lab reach commercial reality. Without it, there would be a large disconnect allowing ideas to stay only on paper.

In Australia (IMO) we don’t bridge that gap well enough, even though we have great scientists/engineers doing valuable things in our universities. Other countries have a well established network for commercialisation (US & Swiss are the best examples), and generate large economic returns not only in industry, but to researchers and universities too. That system is too fragmented and difficult to use in AU.

What the Feds, universities, tech-start ups and commercialisation networks should do is get together and find areas where the system could be improved and communicate those resources to higher degree students and related institutions.

There is the potential for Au to develop a greatly expanded high tech industry here, and this is one area I believe which could help it happen.

According to Craig T:

“You are horribly naive, and apparently believe a fair load of stuff about Tony Abbott that simply is not true.”
———————
Instead of slinging mud, how about explaining what part of what I said about Tony Abbott isn’t true? Is it the bit about his commitment to his family, or his long-term volunteering? When is the last time any prominent Federal ALP politician was seen volunteering or genuinely helping out at a disaster, except for a photo-op?

Meanwhile, JC redefines democracy:

“1. there is no such thing as a mandate.”

Hilarious. I hope you realise that this cuts both ways, JC, i.e. no matter who has won an election. And, I look forward to your explanation of how this would actually work – although it does explain Julia Gillard’s famous “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead” quote.

Unfortunately for Julia, and your highly novel approach to democracy, voters are unimpressed when they are lied to, no matter who is doing the lying. Just ask Barack Obama, who promised that no-one would have to give up their current health plan under his reforms. Millions of Americans are now finding out that he lied. His ratings are plummeting, and could reach Gillard levels before the end of his term.

As for RA, it’s a privately owned site and can say whatever it likes. But undergraduate, petulant claims like “Tony Abbott is a horrible person who is doing horrible things” are not exactly going to attract a mature, balanced and thoughtful audience.

thebrownstreak69 said :

schmeah said :

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

Better go back to reading News Ltd then. There are more than enough rags around that seem to hate on the ALP for sport.

The mainstream media has been unreliable for some time, which is why there is so much value in independent media organisations attempting to maintain a balanced view.

Oh please type that again. Hang on, I’ll get the neighbours round so we can all read it.

Roundhead89 said :

I think it is good that money is being diverted away from science. It will go a long way to counter the wimpification and geekification of society under Labor. We saw what happened. Money being shovelled to climate scientists at the University of East Bumcrack, The Big Bang Theory on the TV, an obesity crisis and our worst-ever Olympics performance at London.

Ideally science should be completely defunded and the money go towards sport. We will have a healthier society all round and get back to that good old traditional sports-loving country.

Seeing how the mental health sciences have failed you I understand why you might say that.

Roundhead89 said :

I think it is good that money is being diverted away from science. It will go a long way to counter the wimpification and geekification of society under Labor. We saw what happened. Money being shovelled to climate scientists at the University of East Bumcrack, The Big Bang Theory on the TV, an obesity crisis and our worst-ever Olympics performance at London.

Ideally science should be completely defunded and the money go towards sport. We will have a healthier society all round and get back to that good old traditional sports-loving country.

SCIENCE IS CRAP!!!

banco said :

Don’t kid yourself you and Johnboy are pretty conventional left of center voters. You like gay marriage, support strong action against climate change etc.

It’s funny you say that. Conservatives generally have little problem identifying themselves as such, especially in the media (ie. Andrew Bolt).

Leftists, on the other hand, don’t appear to recognise themselves. This is painfully apparent in the media, especially the ABC.

It’s centred around a belief their views are “mainstream” because the insular lefty social group (extended to social media) they hang around in all believe the same thing (dissenters are soon hounded out if they don’t conform using the same extremist language like “bigot” and “denier” we’re all familiar with here).

Therefore, they convince themselves are “centrists” – leftists are those people on the fringes who “coincidentally” believe all the same things they do, but are just more vocal and militant about it.

I think it is good that money is being diverted away from science. It will go a long way to counter the wimpification and geekification of society under Labor. We saw what happened. Money being shovelled to climate scientists at the University of East Bumcrack, The Big Bang Theory on the TV, an obesity crisis and our worst-ever Olympics performance at London.

Ideally science should be completely defunded and the money go towards sport. We will have a healthier society all round and get back to that good old traditional sports-loving country.

tommo said :

PantsMan said :

The CSIRO is just a waste of money.

Do you use WiFi? Even better, did you write that comment on a mobile device?
In the current economic climate investing in research is one of only a few sensible long term strategies.

Lol burn

PantsMan said :

The CSIRO is just a waste of money.

Do you use WiFi? Even better, did you write that comment on a mobile device?
In the current economic climate investing in research is one of only a few sensible long term strategies.

maxblues said :

I was away the day my school did science, so I am no expert…but neither are scientists. It was scientists who came up with spontaneous generation, luminous aether, preformationism, recapitulation theory, telegony, emitter theory, vitalism, the miasmatic theory of disease and the transmutation of species. Scientists also ‘witnessed’ the planet Vulcan and its transit around the Sun. Even Albert Einstein swore by the static universe. As for phlogiston….that would just be playing with fire.

The point I’m trying to make is that scientists, public servants and politicians, like the rest of us, are fallible, and none should be put on pedestals to be idolised. This country is in huge debt and it is unrealistic to think that every Australian who wants a government job for life, can have one. Unfortunately cuts have to be made.

mossrocket said :

Barcham said :

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

.

I can’t speak for Johnboy’s views, nor what RiotACT’s coverage was like prior to the start of my employment here earlier this year, but I think I’ve made it fairly clear in my time writing for this site that I dislike many different types of politician.

Pretty much all of them to be honest. Even most of the ones who I know and like as people, I dislike as politicians.

If it were Rudd sitting in the throne making these backwards calls I’d be calling him out on it too. Hell if it were Spider-Man I’d call him out on it, and I really like Spider-Man.

I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.

I’ve been a reader and contributor to this website since the old days when it had the old topics up the top, and I stayed because of the variety of opinion, exposure to Canberra subcultures, and the interesting contributors – and I have to say, in my honest opinion, that the tone feels different lately.

Especially the political tone. There used to be a healthy disdain for every party, but that’s not how it feels anymore. I’m not saying you wouldn’t give ‘Tony’ a harder time than you would ‘Rudd’ – in some weird alternate universe where sociopaths become prime ministers over and over – but you certainly seem to take more personal pot shots lately.

I’d always felt that RiotACT was about independence, and lately it just sounds petulant…

Maybe i’m off the mark – and I’ll be happy to be pulled up (or out of my own arse, depending on the response this receives) but being the indi point of difference in Canberra’s media is what made RiotACT great.

Now it sounds all hipster and beardy…

I think you’re off the mark. Whether that means you’ll now have to perform ano-cerebral extractification is up to you. 🙂

I see viewpoints from all sides of the political and societal spectrum being expressed here. RA provides equal airtime for you, me, Roundhead89, Grimm, DrKoresh, Poetix, C&GN, IrishPete, Tooks, Thumper, WM-C, Masquara, Deref, Porker and many others. At best, saying that those folks are hipster and beardy seems misguided. At worst it will badly piss off Poetix (who is a very pleasant and attractive lady), and will probably result in her writing a combat Haiku about you from which you’ll never recover.

But seriously…the vibe of RA comes from the contributors. JB and Barcham do the editorial stuff, but probably 95% of the content here is provided by the people of the city of Canberra. If there is an anti Abbott trend in a lot of what appears here, I’d say that probably expresses the views of the community, rather than being beard driven.

Personally, I’m troubled by some aspects of Mr Abbott’s personality, and how they are being expressed in government policy. I’m an engineer. Engineers rely on scientists to discover new things, so that we can then use those discoveries to build things for the betterment of our society. Without science we’re stuffed, and Mr Abbott doesn’t appear to have a lot of respect for science as indicated by the fact that we don’t have a Minister for Science.

I don’t think these concerns make me hipster of beardy, just…errrm…concerned.

PantsMan said :

Tony Abbott got elected on the basis of 12,000 public service cuts. That’s about 40,000 too few as far as I’m concerned, but he’s implementing the mandate that was given to him by voters. All these Canberra-types who now complain about democracy (and, in doing so, imply that they are anything but apolitical public servants who will serve the government of the day, but rather political operatives who will work to destroy the Abbott government at taxpayers’ expense) disgust me.

Three points.

1. there is no such thing as a mandate.

2. The cuts were to be through natural attrition, you know where people leave of their own accord. We are now seeing cuts to non-ongoing that is not natural attrition and where I work voluntary redundancy packages are on offer and I have also heard of some people being encouraged to apply.

3. Lastly public servants are also citizens of this country, in fact all federal public servants (with some very minor exceptions) are 100% Australian citizens. That gives them the same rights as every other voter to express their concerns and participate in democracy including discussions such as this.

Now you mention the word apolitical, now it is true public servants have to be apolitical, but only in the way the carry out their function as servants of government and implement and devise the policy for the government of the day. Slight but subtle difference, though some parts of government would have you believe otherwise, but at the end of the day as mentioned public servants are also citizens of this country.

I think we can safely say that Rioters have a general contempt for politicians of all colours.

However, it seems to me that a lot of rusted-on Coalition voters have forgotten what it is like to be on the receiving end of criticism at the federal level, as they were the Righteous Opposition for some time.

Here’s an example. This older lady rang 2CC (Mark Parton’s show) a couple of weeks ago to complain about the satirical segment, Cactus. She was Absolutely Outraged at the ‘disrespect’ which the program was heaping on the new Government, but didn’t get it when it was pointed out that the same level of ‘disrespect’ had been heaped on Gillard and Rudd when they were in Government.

Frankly, Mr Rabbit deserves serious criticism from Canberra (and Canberra-oriented media), as what his Government is doing is deeply Personal for a lot of people in this town. If you don’t get this, what planet are you on?

so much value in independent media organisations attempting to maintain a balanced view

I don’t want ‘balanced’ news. I want true news.

The CSIRO is just a waste of money.

It should just be closed and its sections moved to universities in the cities/states they are currently operating in, or abolished altogether.

It is a particularly Canberra idea that the only way science will exist is if it’s funded by taxpayers. If the CSIRO is closed, will gravity stop? No.

The bullying and harassment horror stories are symptomatic of an entirely dysfunctional culture probably resulting from bloated management, no clear direction or purpose, no targets or goals.

Tony Abbott got elected on the basis of 12,000 public service cuts. That’s about 40,000 too few as far as I’m concerned, but he’s implementing the mandate that was given to him by voters. All these Canberra-types who now complain about democracy (and, in doing so, imply that they are anything but apolitical public servants who will serve the government of the day, but rather political operatives who will work to destroy the Abbott government at taxpayers’ expense) disgust me.

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

Not exactly. The 2013-14 Portfolio Budget Statement for the former DIICCSRTE states the following in relation to CSIRO’s own source revenue: $492m in 13-14, $513m in 14-15, $541m in 15-16 and $564m in 16-17.

Assuming there hasn’t been a marked descrease in future revenue prospects since May, it appears that their industry funding is chugging along nicely. Likewise, their Govt appropriation is also on the rise.

Two problems with that:

1. The figures are targets and not actual money.
————————————————————————————————————————————————–
that’s fkn funny

so CSIRO went to the same school of accounting as Wayne Swan

Ronald_Coase said :

I really like you, your dinosaur, and spiderman, but can we stop calling Tony and his ilk Liberals. I’m liberal and from your posts it sounds as though you are too. Hell, I’d venture that most scientists are liberal too.

That’s the American usage, as “Liberal” to mean civil liberties. The Coalition Liberals are classical liberals, as in they believe in economic liberalism or the idea that Government should not spend money on social services and infrastructure and instead leave everything to the “free market” (meaning their friends that they have business connections too outside of politics).

There are two meanings for the term “Libertarian”. The American meaning that has gained popularity in Australia, where “Libertarians” are basically “Anarcho-Capitalists” who believe there shouldn’t really be any Government and no laws on what you can and can’t do and everything should be provided by the free market. There is also the classical international meaning where Libertarian means Anarcho-Communist/Syndicalist (Catalonia/Paris Commune) who believe that Government should be a flat organization and that businesses should be replaced by Cooperatives (Mondragon) and flat corporations (Valve). The term “Libertarian” came from the Paris Commune newspaper.

Most of the “Left” in Australia are Center-right Social Democrats.

I can’t work out if that’s a petulant or truculent Tony Abbott cleaning rag in the photo, but all I know is I want one. Where can I get them Barcham?

@davo101, you are totally right. Staff freezes at CSIRO come and go (and job losses and funding cuts have been in the news every year or two), and if the bosses really want someone to stay they’ll find a way of keeping them. It happens all the time.

The government that destroys CSIRO seems to be, in many people’s minds, the one that was in power while they were employed there. For me, it was Hawke-Keating and the 30% mandatory external funding. Long-term research declined, replaced by short-term money-for-jam 3-year projects with young scientists employed on corresponding 3-year contracts. For those in the know, these external projects are also good ways of dodging staff freezes.

Sure, blame Tony Abbott for this latest round, but if you really care about the state of science in Australia, look past your hatred of the liberals and start asking questions about the longer-term demise of a once great research organisation.

Rosslyn Beeby was great at doing this, but she is gone now. The replacement seems to be screeching headlines of ‘Tony hates science’.

breda said :

Barcham says:

“’I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.”
——————————-
You have an interesting definition of a “horrible human being.”

Here is a guy who has abided by the law, stayed loyal to his wife and raised his daughters, has volunteered for his local bushfire brigade and surf lifesavers for many years, and spent some of his free time helping out in remote Aboriginal communities.

I look forward to hearing in what way this makes him “horrible” and what the records of your preferred “non-horrible” leaders look like in comparison.

You are horribly naive, and apparently believe a fair load of stuff about Tony Abbott that simply is not true.

You are apparently overlooking the fact that Tony Abbott has made thoroughly immoral expense claims whereby the taxpayer has funded the various stunts you describe, as well as various weddings or whatnot.

Barcham said :

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

.

I can’t speak for Johnboy’s views, nor what RiotACT’s coverage was like prior to the start of my employment here earlier this year, but I think I’ve made it fairly clear in my time writing for this site that I dislike many different types of politician.

Pretty much all of them to be honest. Even most of the ones who I know and like as people, I dislike as politicians.

If it were Rudd sitting in the throne making these backwards calls I’d be calling him out on it too. Hell if it were Spider-Man I’d call him out on it, and I really like Spider-Man.

I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.

Don’t kid yourself you and Johnboy are pretty conventional left of center voters. You like gay marriage, support strong action against climate change etc.

mossrocket said :

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

These cuts are 100% new and are across the public service, though as mentioned before CSIRO is taking a bigger hit due to a higher proportion of non-ongoing staff. So really nothing what so ever to do with any long term issues in the CSIRO and everything to do with recent (read Liberal Government) policy change and direction.

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

They may well not be cutting, but if you took the time to read what they have said is non-ongoing staff, who ever they are and where ever they are go when their term is up, whether they are needed or not. So yes a bit different to cutting staff and a bit different to industry funding drying up too.

I have a rather profuse dislike for this prick and what he stands for, though in the case of the CSIRO I don’t think they have been specifically targeted, rather they are a victim of they way they employee people. Specifically they have a large proportion of non-ongoing staff who are easy to get rid of.

Just goes to show though how stupid arbitrary cuts are. If there is fat to be cut it clearly should be targeted, though if it were targeted it wouldn’t be voluntary or non-ongoing.

breda said :

I look forward to hearing in what way this makes him “horrible” and what the records of your preferred “non-horrible” leaders look like in comparison.

He once stood somewhere where someone behind him was holding a “Ditch the Witch” sign. Surely this is amongst the worst things any politician, or human being in fact, has ever done?

mossrocket said :

Especially the political tone. There used to be a healthy disdain for every party, but that’s not how it feels anymore. I’m not saying you wouldn’t give ‘Tony’ a harder time than you would ‘Rudd’ – in some weird alternate universe where sociopaths become prime ministers over and over – but you certainly seem to take more personal pot shots lately.

I’d always felt that RiotACT was about independence, and lately it just sounds petulant…

Abbott derangement syndrome is pretty rampant here – as is the belief in people’s own moral superiority entitling them to insult anyone who disagrees with them (particularly around certain subjects). Sad too, because it’s sad to see formerly lively and respectful discussion fast turning into a one sided censored circle jerk of left-wing activism.

schmeah said :

Better go back to reading News Ltd then. There are more than enough rags around that seem to hate on the ALP for sport.

Good thing the ALP can count on all of its supporters who work for Fairfax and the ABC, then.

The latter in particular seems to have magically rediscovered the media’s role in holding the government to account in the past couple of months.

Barcham said :

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

.

I can’t speak for Johnboy’s views, nor what RiotACT’s coverage was like prior to the start of my employment here earlier this year, but I think I’ve made it fairly clear in my time writing for this site that I dislike many different types of politician.

Pretty much all of them to be honest. Even most of the ones who I know and like as people, I dislike as politicians.

If it were Rudd sitting in the throne making these backwards calls I’d be calling him out on it too. Hell if it were Spider-Man I’d call him out on it, and I really like Spider-Man.

I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.

I’ve been a reader and contributor to this website since the old days when it had the old topics up the top, and I stayed because of the variety of opinion, exposure to Canberra subcultures, and the interesting contributors – and I have to say, in my honest opinion, that the tone feels different lately.

Especially the political tone. There used to be a healthy disdain for every party, but that’s not how it feels anymore. I’m not saying you wouldn’t give ‘Tony’ a harder time than you would ‘Rudd’ – in some weird alternate universe where sociopaths become prime ministers over and over – but you certainly seem to take more personal pot shots lately.

I’d always felt that RiotACT was about independence, and lately it just sounds petulant…

Maybe i’m off the mark – and I’ll be happy to be pulled up (or out of my own arse, depending on the response this receives) but being the indi point of difference in Canberra’s media is what made RiotACT great.

Now it sounds all hipster and beardy…

breda said :

Barcham says:

“’I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.”
——————————-
You have an interesting definition of a “horrible human being.”

Here is a guy who has abided by the law, stayed loyal to his wife and raised his daughters, has volunteered for his local bushfire brigade and surf lifesavers for many years, and spent some of his free time helping out in remote Aboriginal communities.

I look forward to hearing in what way this makes him “horrible” and what the records of your preferred “non-horrible” leaders look like in comparison.

Are you really that dim?

Barcham said :

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

.

I can’t speak for Johnboy’s views, nor what RiotACT’s coverage was like prior to the start of my employment here earlier this year, but I think I’ve made it fairly clear in my time writing for this site that I dislike many different types of politician.

Pretty much all of them to be honest. Even most of the ones who I know and like as people, I dislike as politicians.

If it were Rudd sitting in the throne making these backwards calls I’d be calling him out on it too. Hell if it were Spider-Man I’d call him out on it, and I really like Spider-Man.

I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.

Sorry barcho, you talk mess about spidey and I’m afraid I would have to go all wolvie on your ass

I was away the day my school did science, so I am no expert…but neither are scientists. It was scientists who came up with spontaneous generation, luminous aether, preformationism, recapitulation theory, telegony, emitter theory, vitalism, the miasmatic theory of disease and the transmutation of species. Scientists also ‘witnessed’ the planet Vulcan and its transit around the Sun. Even Albert Einstein swore by the static universe. As for phlogiston….that would just be playing with fire.

@davo121 – You are correct about various Governments applying the thumbscrews to CSIRO. Some of it goes back to the late 90s when CSIRO was the next Govt. organization due to have its IT outsourced. How many people now remember that bright idea?
The then CSIRO Officers Association campaigned loud, long and very publicly about this standardized approach being entirely inappropriate for the IT needs of CSIRO – for a range of valid reasons.
This forced a review of Minchin’s pet project and resulted in the project being abandoned.
I was a CSIRO employee at this time – actually spent 15 years with them, but got out just in time.
This once great organization has been reduced to a shadow of what it once was.

breda said :

Barcham says:

“’I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.”
——————————-
You have an interesting definition of a “horrible human being.”

Here is a guy who has abided by the law, stayed loyal to his wife and raised his daughters, has volunteered for his local bushfire brigade and surf lifesavers for many years, and spent some of his free time helping out in remote Aboriginal communities.

I look forward to hearing in what way this makes him “horrible” and what the records of your preferred “non-horrible” leaders look like in comparison.

I bet he’ll make the trains run on time too.

Barcham says:

“’I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.”
——————————-
You have an interesting definition of a “horrible human being.”

Here is a guy who has abided by the law, stayed loyal to his wife and raised his daughters, has volunteered for his local bushfire brigade and surf lifesavers for many years, and spent some of his free time helping out in remote Aboriginal communities.

I look forward to hearing in what way this makes him “horrible” and what the records of your preferred “non-horrible” leaders look like in comparison.

Ronald_Coase said :

Tony and his friends are conservatives. Capitalising the l is insufficient given the syntax and grammatical standards of teh interwebs.[/quote>

They’re actually libertarians, which is far worse.

How many people do we need on the AGW scare gravy train? Maybe if they produced something worthwhile rather than running around like chicken little, they wouldn’t need government grants to live off.

Barcham said :

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

.

I can’t speak for Johnboy’s views, nor what RiotACT’s coverage was like prior to the start of my employment here earlier this year, but I think I’ve made it fairly clear in my time writing for this site that I dislike many different types of politician.

Pretty much all of them to be honest. Even most of the ones who I know and like as people, I dislike as politicians.

If it were Rudd sitting in the throne making these backwards calls I’d be calling him out on it too. Hell if it were Spider-Man I’d call him out on it, and I really like Spider-Man.

I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.

I really like you, your dinosaur, and spiderman, but can we stop calling Tony and his ilk Liberals. I’m liberal and from your posts it sounds as though you are too. Hell, I’d venture that most scientists are liberal too.

Tony and his friends are conservatives. Capitalising the l is insufficient given the syntax and grammatical standards of teh interwebs.

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

.

I can’t speak for Johnboy’s views, nor what RiotACT’s coverage was like prior to the start of my employment here earlier this year, but I think I’ve made it fairly clear in my time writing for this site that I dislike many different types of politician.

Pretty much all of them to be honest. Even most of the ones who I know and like as people, I dislike as politicians.

If it were Rudd sitting in the throne making these backwards calls I’d be calling him out on it too. Hell if it were Spider-Man I’d call him out on it, and I really like Spider-Man.

I’m not picking on Tony because he’s a Liberal, I’m picking on him because he’s a horrible human being who is doing horrible things.

neanderthalsis said :

Writing like that, Barcham, might get you a job with New Matilda or the Green Left…

First, no Minister for Science; Ian MacFarlane is the Minister for Industry, under his portfolio responsibility is Science. Just because a Minister and Department doesn’t have a 20 letter unpronounceable acronym, doesn’t mean they don’t cover it.

Second, the CSIRO cuts are ill informed speculation and scare mongering.

Even if the Minister for Industry does a brilliant job while wearing his science hat (or is it lab coat), the very act of getting rid of the Science Minister is to me, and many others, symbolic of the place science holds within our current Government.

Fortunately, there’s enough science in the bible anyway, I’m sure.

davo101 said :

CrocodileGandhi said :

Not exactly. The 2013-14 Portfolio Budget Statement for the former DIICCSRTE states the following in relation to CSIRO’s own source revenue: $492m in 13-14, $513m in 14-15, $541m in 15-16 and $564m in 16-17.

Two problems with that:

1. The figures are targets and not actual money.
2. Something like 60% of the own source revenue is actually Commonwealth and state government money that is funnelled through other organisations. So if the other organisations get their budgets cut do you think they continue to keep buying services from CSIRO?

CrocodileGandhi said :

Assuming there hasn’t been a marked decrease in future revenue prospects since May

Well given the burn, burn, slash mindset of the Commonwealth and state governments at the moment, I’d say the future’s not so bright.

CrocodileGandhi said :

Likewise, their Govt appropriation is also on the rise.

Yes; at a blistering 1% pa, what’s CPI at the moment?

Fair enough.

schmeah said :

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

Better go back to reading News Ltd then. There are more than enough rags around that seem to hate on the ALP for sport.

The mainstream media has been unreliable for some time, which is why there is so much value in independent media organisations attempting to maintain a balanced view.

CrocodileGandhi said :

Not exactly. The 2013-14 Portfolio Budget Statement for the former DIICCSRTE states the following in relation to CSIRO’s own source revenue: $492m in 13-14, $513m in 14-15, $541m in 15-16 and $564m in 16-17.

Two problems with that:

1. The figures are targets and not actual money.
2. Something like 60% of the own source revenue is actually Commonwealth and state government money that is funnelled through other organisations. So if the other organisations get their budgets cut do you think they continue to keep buying services from CSIRO?

CrocodileGandhi said :

Assuming there hasn’t been a marked decrease in future revenue prospects since May

Well given the burn, burn, slash mindset of the Commonwealth and state governments at the moment, I’d say the future’s not so bright.

CrocodileGandhi said :

Likewise, their Govt appropriation is also on the rise.

Yes; at a blistering 1% pa, what’s CPI at the moment?

Genie said :

People who have NON-ONGOING contracts are whinging they are losing their jobs ?

But but.. they’re NON-ONGOING….

I give up !

Unfortunately, if you get, say, 3-year funding for Project X, then you can’t go out and recruit a permanent member of staff to be funded by that project and to work on it. You have to recruit people on non-ongoing contracts.

If you are any good at what you are doing, you will devise a future project, Project Y, well ahead of time, and have it planned, and funding lined up, to co-incide with the end of Project X. This enables you to keep your specialist staff, and works for them too, because nobody really wants to be unemployed.

The problem with making sweeping changes to funding at short notice is that you can’t put together a research project overnight, and your highly-trained specialist staff aren’t going to sit around at home unpaid for 12 months waiting for you to get your $#@! together. They will get jobs elsewhere. Their skills are lost to your organisation, and your future project work is likely to be delayed, costs are likely to overrun, and you will likey suffer quality problems with the product. That’s one reason research funding needs to be regular and predictable.

As far as Tony Abbott goes, he’s simply an idiot. He thinks
Andrew Bolt provides thoughtful, intelligent analysis.
He thinks scientists just make $#@! up for fun, just like politicians do.
Oh, and he thinks the Taxpayer should pay for his private trips to weddings and for his PR stunts.

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

Better go back to reading News Ltd then. There are more than enough rags around that seem to hate on the ALP for sport.

Maybe a scientist once stole his girlfriend. Or his lunch money.

mossrocket said :

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

Not exactly. The 2013-14 Portfolio Budget Statement for the former DIICCSRTE states the following in relation to CSIRO’s own source revenue: $492m in 13-14, $513m in 14-15, $541m in 15-16 and $564m in 16-17.

Assuming there hasn’t been a marked descrease in future revenue prospects since May, it appears that their industry funding is chugging along nicely. Likewise, their Govt appropriation is also on the rise.

Maybe they can just keep suing companies for Wifi royalties?
http://blog.patentology.com.au/2012/04/story-behind-csiros-wi-fi-patent.html

Got Jezuz. Don’t need no steenkin’ science.

The reason is that science provides refutation for pretty much every policy that Abbott and his mob of far-right reactionaries want to implement.

Not that Labor was much better of course.

How many politicians are scientists? How many are lawyers?

Science, unfortunately, is a very easy target. All governments know this and act accordingly.

Genie said :

People who have NON-ONGOING contracts are whinging they are losing their jobs ?

But but.. they’re NON-ONGOING….

I give up !

Only ‘non ongoing’ because the funding for science means that the grant may not be renewed, or may be reduced or whatever. This is why there are so many contractors at CSIRO – projects here today may not be here tomorrow, so effectively people are hired as casuals when there is the money.

Now CSIRO is being told ‘you cant have full timers’ (because of the funding variations) and, oh, you cant have contractors either.

In general, non ongoing staff will have an expectation that their 12 month contract (say) will continue if the project is continuing. Just like a casual worker might expect that they will continue to have a job while the store is open (performance criteria met, of course).

There is a whole different world out there to how people ensconced in comfortable full time jobs see the world.

From the article:
The problems with CSIRO were already occurring before the change in government. One third of CSIRO budget is obtained from external sources and that is down, so either staff will be cut or the federal government will need to put in more money. Nowhere is there any statement that the funding by the federal government has been reduced.

davo101 said :

CSIRO has had the thumb screws applied to it by the Keating, Howard, Rudd, and Gillard governments. Not sure why you would have expected an Abbott government to be any different.

Cuts to science and research was my first disappointment with the Rudd Government, particularly after all the talk about the need to be a smarter, more competitive nation. I imagine there are large, world-leading companies, which spend as much, or more, on research than the total Australian spending – let’s just hope the rest of the world keeps buying our minerals.

Writing like that, Barcham, might get you a job with New Matilda or the Green Left…

First, no Minister for Science; Ian MacFarlane is the Minister for Industry, under his portfolio responsibility is Science. Just because a Minister and Department doesn’t have a 20 letter unpronounceable acronym, doesn’t mean they don’t cover it.

Second, the CSIRO cuts are ill informed speculation and scare mongering.

But the Gov aren’t cutting funding – not a cent less.
The problem is the reliance by the CSIRO on industry investment – and that has dried up.

RiotACT seems to be turning into a very one sided commentary on politics – or maybe I missed all the attacks you guys made on the Labor government and the trouble it caused (which are still having effects like this one)?

It is easier to ignore the science if there aren’t any scientists

People who have NON-ONGOING contracts are whinging they are losing their jobs ?

But but.. they’re NON-ONGOING….

I give up !

CSIRO has had the thumb screws applied to it by the Keating, Howard, Rudd, and Gillard governments. Not sure why you would have expected an Abbott government to be any different.

He’s a traditionalist, you see. Paleolithic man did just fine without science.