11 February 2009

Rugged computers looking for a home

| fffq
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Morning Ladies and Gentlemen

I am a computer. Pretty observant of me I know, but I am a very special computer.

I was destined to go into the remote parts of Australia and work for 5 years without a problem. Sites where there is 50 degree heat and rolling dust in the middle of summer and other locations where the surrounding area is flooded out for 6 – 8 weeks of the year. I was built to handle these conditions.

The destiny of me and 79 of my brothers and sisters has been smashed by the bureaucratic bumbling of a government department. In the wake of, dare I say, “incompetence”, the small Canberra based IT Company that purchased me with the expectation of delivering us to those communities is now faced with a serious problem.

12 months ago that company was flying high, multimillion dollar contract on the horizon and lots of people in the company working toward one goal – the betterment of the remote aboriginal communities. But isn’t 12 months a long time in business and here they are now, going into administration, letting staff go and the future looking pretty dismal.

I would like to find a decent home for my 79 siblings, myself and various other components that are the remains of an outstanding project. Another aboriginal project plagued by bureaucratic ineptitude, lackadaisical incompetence and no sense of urgency except for the departments own importance.

The remote communities are the real losers in this whole circumstance but I would like to ensure that some of the loses are recovered for my company.

Please purchase me and give me and my siblings a home. I am worth $1500.00 Inc GST (Very close to cost price).

[ED – For more details and to express an interest contact Roger Smith: Roger.Smith@paradigmit.net.au ]

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What is the power consumption of the computer.
How has it been dust proofed?
How noisy are the fans?
What extra cooling is included?
Do they have TV out?
Has the chassis been modifies?

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

If a business went and procured hardware without a purchase order or formal contract in place, then more fool them. Government depts change their minds all the time for a variety of reasons. Where I work it’s not unusual to spend several hundred thousand dollars responding to an RFT that gets pulled from market. Every couple of years we might spend a couple of million.

But we don’t go procuring hardware, software or services until the contracts are signed (or we at least have a formal letter of intent).

as per the standing offer link, the department signed in november 2007, 12 months after i was aware that the standing offer was awarded. regardless of when, they have had a full 12-months under the agreement to allow the OP to deliver the equipment, but have managed to cancel whilst under an agreement.

proofpositive10:30 pm 11 Feb 09

I-filed said :

Anyone have Burmese kittens for sale? :]

Hello there,

I just need to tell you that this is a very lovely pussy you have
gotten here and I am interested in buying it outrightly. For a quick
sale, I will pay you $700.00 for this pussy .Let me know if my
offer is accepted so that we can finalize this ASAP.

NB: Honestly, I do not know the actual worth of this pussy, If my
offer is not ok, Let me know so i can shoot up abit or bring it
down as the case maybe.
Hope to hear from you soon.

Nigel.

I believe basing a business purely on government procurement when both VY’s are hot.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy9:42 pm 11 Feb 09

If a business went and procured hardware without a purchase order or formal contract in place, then more fool them. Government depts change their minds all the time for a variety of reasons. Where I work it’s not unusual to spend several hundred thousand dollars responding to an RFT that gets pulled from market. Every couple of years we might spend a couple of million.

But we don’t go procuring hardware, software or services until the contracts are signed (or we at least have a formal letter of intent).

Felix the Cat said :

I didn’t know RA had changed to allclassifieds.com.au…..

Anyone have Burmese kittens for sale? :]

Felix the Cat8:58 pm 11 Feb 09

I didn’t know RA had changed to allclassifieds.com.au…..

Questacon used to do Indigenous web games – they might be interested. Or AIATSIS next to the National Museum.

In a blatant plug for my brother in laws company, this is what I thought a Rugged Operations Computer would look like.

peterh said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

So are you saying DCITA/BCDE hasn’t actually given you any money for these PCs? They’re not encumbered by a funding agreement? No caveats over their disposal? You’re just free to sell them?

WMC, how did you know who it was?

Has to be the old DCITA.

fffq, why don’t you tout them to another department that is running Indig programs? Try FAHCSIA or DEWHA Indigenous arts …

wow – what a pity those communities won’t get their computers.

you could get sponsorship to send them there anyway i’m sure. just need to get a registered charity on board.

tylersmayhem said :

Wow, look at all the people who want to stand up and have a shot at a poor bloke trying to re-coup some of the money he has lost, I’m actually amazed at the attitudes here.

No, it’s about people like myself knowing the true value of PC kit, and knowing when some is being offered at a price that is too high. I’d hate someone like my parents to come on here and buy a piece of kit that they could get for half the price. It’s a matter of consumers looking out for consumers.

Unlike Harvey, I do feel a little sorry for the OP, regardless of schoolboy errors made. I can also understand wanting to make back the money that they have invested – but this should not be a the cost of non-tech savvy punters. Yes, the PCs did cost a certain amount last year. They don’t cost that much any more. Same situation the minute you drive a brand new car out of the showroom scenario.

Tyler has pretty much summed my feelings up. I guess I may have been a little harsh saying I have no sympathy for him. I have sympathy for the position he’s been put in to. Because yes even the best plans can go astray. That said, I don’t think highly of his attempt to offload his problem at inflated prices. I have no problems with the OP trying to offload excess equipment, but I’d hate to think that he was ripping people off in the process.

Woody Mann-Caruso5:38 pm 11 Feb 09

WMC, how did you know who it was?

I guessed it was the fallout of this.

oh, and i don’t sell to the public. I am working for a distie.

tylersmayhem said :

re your parents buying the pc, mine bought a business pc about 6-months ago, not loaded to the hilt with the retail box cr@p

Yes, their Dell was packed with this c**p when taken out of the box. Was easily removed and the PC running sweet.

As for a pavilion boat anchor – my facial expressions reflect zero surprise.

Also Peter, while your theory about the Aussie Dollar is interesting, I believe if that was the situation, the Dells you see online would reflect this jump in price IMHO. I’m not being pointed about your comments, I just don’t agree with them 😉

ah, dell works in mysterious ways. they have different target systems for their teams, being made up of both a profit target, which will be achieved by the web team, and revenue targets for everyone else. The competitiveness of dell is a testament to the market. it isn’t cheaper to manufacture right now, in fact quite the opposite. Dell have simply lowered their profit margins.

Unfortunately, for everyone else, we cannot simply operate at 2-5%, we would be operating at a loss, once admin costings are taken out of the profit. (I don’t work for paradigm, but i do know their situation, they are one of my 180 clients in town)

tylersmayhem4:00 pm 11 Feb 09

re your parents buying the pc, mine bought a business pc about 6-months ago, not loaded to the hilt with the retail box cr@p

Yes, their Dell was packed with this c**p when taken out of the box. Was easily removed and the PC running sweet.

As for a pavilion boat anchor – my facial expressions reflect zero surprise.

Also Peter, while your theory about the Aussie Dollar is interesting, I believe if that was the situation, the Dells you see online would reflect this jump in price IMHO. I’m not being pointed about your comments, I just don’t agree with them 😉

tylersmayhem said :

Wow, look at all the people who want to stand up and have a shot at a poor bloke trying to re-coup some of the money he has lost, I’m actually amazed at the attitudes here.

No, it’s about people like myself knowing the true value of PC kit, and knowing when some is being offered at a price that is too high. I’d hate someone like my parents to come on here and buy a piece of kit that they could get for half the price. It’s a matter of consumers looking out for consumers.

Unlike Harvey, I do feel a little sorry for the OP, regardless of schoolboy errors made. I can also understand wanting to make back the money that they have invested – but this should not be a the cost of non-tech savvy punters. Yes, the PCs did cost a certain amount last year. They don’t cost that much any more. Same situation the minute you drive a brand new car out of the showroom scenario.

no tylers, with the current downturn and the aussie dollar backsliding, it is now more expensive for the same kit. re your parents buying the pc, mine bought a business pc about 6-months ago, not loaded to the hilt with the retail box cr@p, that if you delete the damn thing stops working. been there, have a pavilion boat anchor.

the pc’s would be good maybe for a smb outfit, especially if the stimulus package goes ahead. (oh, i hope that at least the business incentive does)

tylersmayhem3:19 pm 11 Feb 09

Wow, look at all the people who want to stand up and have a shot at a poor bloke trying to re-coup some of the money he has lost, I’m actually amazed at the attitudes here.

No, it’s about people like myself knowing the true value of PC kit, and knowing when some is being offered at a price that is too high. I’d hate someone like my parents to come on here and buy a piece of kit that they could get for half the price. It’s a matter of consumers looking out for consumers.

Unlike Harvey, I do feel a little sorry for the OP, regardless of schoolboy errors made. I can also understand wanting to make back the money that they have invested – but this should not be a the cost of non-tech savvy punters. Yes, the PCs did cost a certain amount last year. They don’t cost that much any more. Same situation the minute you drive a brand new car out of the showroom scenario.

Boring.

Moving on. Oh, my Dell machine just crapped out again, hahahahaha.

You are right, HP do like to prostitute them selves out these days. I’m not going any further with that one.

proofpositive2:50 pm 11 Feb 09

DaveR said :

HP won’t sell them to you if you are not an authorised re-seller.

Hp equipment can be purchased through distributors Ingram Micro/Dicker Data. Hp are happy to prostitute themselves to anyone these days. However I’d be cautious about whether the carepacks (warranty) have been registered yet and if so you’ll need to read the Hp fine print with regard to transferablity.

HP won’t sell them to you if you are not an authorised re-seller.

Market seems to indicate they are might be dear, but here’s that word again, negotiate.

Like I have said, seen it all before, protections can be in place, but you still have to go through the pain of fighting it, if you have the money, I should know too. There are a lot of people in this who also know.

harvyk1 said :

peterh said :

Given that the company has purchased them, and is not an authorised reseller (at least probably not to the public), by their very nature they are second hand. There are things you can do to protect yourself and your business, even when contracts get pulled. I should know, as I myself run a business and always think “what if”. It all comes down to doing a proper risk assessment on all projects including assessing the risks to your business, and then handling those risks appropriately.

To be lumped with 80 machines which need to be sold in effectively a fire sale, indicates to me that they didn’t handle the project risks very well.

I have highlighted the bit i don’t understand in your post. How do you know whether they are or aren’t an authorised reseller? am i? maybe they bought it from a distributor – you don’t need to be authorised to buy that way.

have you ever been caught out by a client cancelling an order, with a veto for pursuit of recompense? A large dept will drag it through the courts till you are broke. they have all the money in the world when defending a dodgy decision…

peterh said :

where is it stated that they are second hand? bit of a long stretch to say that. the current model of this particular pc is this one. considering that the standing offer showed the start date as november 2007, how was it effected by the current climate? the fact is that the dept pulled the pin for no good reason. beyond the impact to the business, what about the indigenous communities who have been shafted as well?

Given that the company has purchased them, and is not an authorised reseller (at least probably not to the public), by their very nature they are second hand. There are things you can do to protect yourself and your business, even when contracts get pulled. I should know, as I myself run a business and always think “what if”. It all comes down to doing a proper risk assessment on all projects including assessing the risks to your business, and then handling those risks appropriately.

To be lumped with 80 machines which need to be sold in effectively a fire sale, indicates to me that they didn’t handle the project risks very well.

But this is beside the point, the fact of the matter is they have put up onto the market some machines, and the market is telling them that it’s too pricy.

harvyk1

His problem if the money he is asking is too much, and if you want a Dell, then take the risk, I run both HP and Dell machines for work, I know which I like, the Dell certainly wouldn’t be my choice again. Like I implied last time, honest and equitable negotiations are a good thing.

Do you know he didn’t have the protection required? I would believe a contract would provide that level of protection. I would assume he did have a contract as he did mention in the article. However, I have seen it before this, SME’s pushed out and bullied by Departments who break contracts counting on the SME can’t fight it on the basis they don’t have the financial backing.

Cheers

proofpositive2:19 pm 11 Feb 09

fffq said :

Specs are
DC7800 (Designed for Remote Australia locations)

I doubt it … looks like a stock standard desktop which according to Hp is “Designed for long-term, networked deployment within medium and large organizations in commercial business, finance and public sector organizations”, hardly a rugged computer designed for Remote Australian locations!

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12744_div/12744_div.HTML

harvyk1 said :

DaveR said :

DaveR, I have no problem with him wanting to recoup his costs by selling equipment at the current market rates. What we are saying is we think he is over charging for now second hand equipment.

What I don’t have any sympathy for is the fact that he purchased equipment without having any sort of protections for himself if his client pulled the pin (eg deposit payments, penalty or termination clauses etc). In the current business climate that is a very good way of going under very quickly.

where is it stated that they are second hand? bit of a long stretch to say that. the current model of this particular pc is this one. considering that the standing offer showed the start date as november 2007, how was it effected by the current climate? the fact is that the dept pulled the pin for no good reason. beyond the impact to the business, what about the indigenous communities who have been shafted as well?

DaveR said :

Wow, look at all the people who want to stand up and have a shot at a poor bloke trying to re-coup some of the money he has lost, I’m actually amazed at the attitudes here. Sure right of reply is fair enough, but enough is enough, grow up and let the guy deal with people who are genuinely interested and have half a brain to negotiate.

Oh and for the comments from those that are clearly coming out of the Department involved, do you have a guilty conscience??

Move on.

DaveR, I have no problem with him wanting to recoup his costs by selling equipment at the current market rates. What we are saying is we think he is over charging for now second hand equipment.

What I don’t have any sympathy for is the fact that he purchased equipment without having any sort of protections for himself if his client pulled the pin (eg deposit payments, penalty or termination clauses etc). In the current business climate that is a very good way of going under very quickly.

fffq, they are pretty underwhelming specs for $1500, considering I can get a Dell inc monitor for $1500, with higher spec processor, double the HDD, and same level of RAM (which in my mind is too small for the modern day PC) I’d say your dreaming (or ripping people off) by charging $1500.

Also is the machines themselves already 12 months old? If so how does that affect the remaining warranty, and what sort of storage conditions have they been in over that time? I know they are “bullet proof” machines as you say, but still…

DaveR said :

Wow, look at all the people who want to stand up and have a shot at a poor bloke trying to re-coup some of the money he has lost, I’m actually amazed at the attitudes here. Sure right of reply is fair enough, but enough is enough, grow up and let the guy deal with people who are genuinely interested and have half a brain to negotiate.

Oh and for the comments from those that are clearly coming out of the Department involved, do you have a guilty conscience??

Move on.

onya DaveR.

well said.

Wow, look at all the people who want to stand up and have a shot at a poor bloke trying to re-coup some of the money he has lost, I’m actually amazed at the attitudes here. Sure right of reply is fair enough, but enough is enough, grow up and let the guy deal with people who are genuinely interested and have half a brain to negotiate.

Oh and for the comments from those that are clearly coming out of the Department involved, do you have a guilty conscience??

Move on.

tylersmayhem1:33 pm 11 Feb 09

Or pay $699 + $35 for a multi card reader from Dell which includes 4Gb RAM

http://configure.ap.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=au&cs=audhs1&kc=&l=en&oc=R211220AU&s=dhs

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

So are you saying DCITA/BCDE hasn’t actually given you any money for these PCs? They’re not encumbered by a funding agreement? No caveats over their disposal? You’re just free to sell them?

WMC, how did you know who it was?

Hey Kizzle

The trouble with your build is that it is YOUR build – It is like anything else it is always cheaper on the internet, if you know where you go to get the parts, are willing to purchase them on line, Pay for shipping, put them together correctly and then hope that you don’t put the connecter in the wrong way round.

Business / communities rely on systems that work all the time, yes they have the same components but they purchase them with a 3 or 5 year warranty that is honoured anywhere in Australia. Furthermore in 4 years time if and when the motherboard fails HP replace it with the same board, no reformating the hardrive because it cannot be seen by the new super improved motherboard that has be bought off.

Danman said :

peterh – I wanted a 24inch but Mrs Danman said what I had was already big enough 😛

Ahh well – a 21 will work as well for graphic design as a 24

you might like to have a look at parallels – currently running 24″ with mac OS x leopard with:
Suse
redhat
XP
Vista

so i can speak to all my client base in native filetypes. helps for graphic design where the e/u isn’t mac orientated…

$750 sounds about right for a quick sale. You could sell them at action for less.

Kizzle said :

From a workmate

Quote…

Approximate Online Prices…

CPU – $275 (E8400)
M/B – $150
2gb Memory – $40
Case / PS – $110
Video – $150 (9600 512mb)
HDD – $62
DVDRW – $27
Card Reader – $20
Keyboard / Mouse – $30
XP – $210

Total – $1074

Even with the warranty, $1500 is to much.

what, with 5-year onsite, regional? find a whiteboxer that will cover that for you. with xp for 80 pcs. good luck getting xp, I can’t supply it anymore.

and a couple of other points:

is the case a CMT? ruggedised?
is the media reader inbuilt without sacrificing a 3.5 or 5.25 bay?
does that include a web cam?
is that complete build or build it yourself?
and is that an australian outfit, or an o/s company?

$1074 is pretty good price wise, but this is a business pc. is the whitebox the same?

peterh said :

s4anta, looking at the offer, started in nov 07, doesn’t it seem a bit strange for it to bomb out prior to deployment? gershon review has done a lot to undermine confidence in the ICT sector, apparently. I am really busy, but am sheltered from the worst of it.

I don’t think so. Seeing as there have been several calls to cut out the fat of expenditure, anything coming out of a research area would be the first to go. Additionally, if I remember correctly November 07 was when the move into the indigneous communities was announced by Howard et al, seeing of the reversal from Krudd in regards to this move I am not surprised at all.

The main kicker to the Gershon report was looking at defining what are core and non-core services in regards to on going funding, this seems to be the latter. That’s even before you look at the inherant risks of flicking a bunch of PC’s into remote Australia, regardless of who is mashing the keyboard.

peterh – I wanted a 24inch but Mrs Danman said what I had was already big enough 😛

Ahh well – a 21 will work as well for graphic design as a 24

From a workmate

Quote…

Approximate Online Prices…

CPU – $275 (E8400)
M/B – $150
2gb Memory – $40
Case / PS – $110
Video – $150 (9600 512mb)
HDD – $62
DVDRW – $27
Card Reader – $20
Keyboard / Mouse – $30
XP – $210

Total – $1074

Even with the warranty, $1500 is to much.

S4anta said :

I suspect it is the killing off of this, whether under the Gershon recommendation or the windback of the indigneous annexation strategy of the previous administration.

As for th reason of buying the desktops, my guess is that they bvanked on a bunch of work coming in, that was pulled out from underneath them. As the business took a knock they are now looking at liqidating all assets in light pending administration.

It is a shame to hear of this, but I suspect that there is going to be anjumber of these stories as the ICT strategies accross the board are looked over good and hard in the next eight to ten months.

s4anta, looking at the offer, started in nov 07, doesn’t it seem a bit strange for it to bomb out prior to deployment? gershon review has done a lot to undermine confidence in the ICT sector, apparently. I am really busy, but am sheltered from the worst of it.

Danman said :

Pfft – Its a gates computer – get a 21 inch iMAC up ya 🙂

(Ducks and runs)

only a 21? would have thought a 24 would be better…

re sallyjones, show time? what? did i miss something?

Hey woody
No they are not encumbered under any Government department – we were caught in the Rudd “lets save money by cutting projects” gang. Its not only the cost of the hardware / software but also the time and effort that went into the project that annoyed me

Sorry Guys
Specs are
DC7800 (Designed for Remote Australia locations)
Core 2 Duo E6850
2 GB PC2 – 6400 (DDR- 800) RAM
Nvidia Qdro NVS290 256 MB Video Card
SATA 160 GB HDD
SATA 16X LightScribe
Logitec Web Cam
HP 15-1 Card Reader
Keyboard and Mouse
HP 5-5-5 Warranty
Windows XP Professional SP3

Pfft – Its a gates computer – get a 21 inch iMAC up ya 🙂

(Ducks and runs)

Roger Smith?

Paradigm?

Does anyone else know what I’m implying when I say “SHOW TIME”?

These sound great to me. Indestructible computers – fantaxtic!

Get a marketer on board (even a final year student) and market these to oldies who like stuff that is built to last, and to rural people, or people with dusty old holiday shacks. Or caravaners.

For the oldies, if you offer to set them up with what they want (word, internet, email) on the desktop they will lap it up.

I reckon you could sell them for 2800.00 each.

Flesh out the backstory a bit – “built to withstand 20Km duststorms at Cloncurry” type stuff.

tylersmayhem11:30 am 11 Feb 09

Does FFFQ work as a maritime worker who is often away “sailing” for long stints at a time?

“The destiny of me and 79 of my brothers and sisters has been smashed by the bureaucratic bumbling of a government department. “

Sorry…but it sounds more like bad business management on the part of the IT company to me. Regardless….as many have asked, specifications please. You’ve got no hope of offloading these without providing full specs of what you are selling!

Spy sappin my specs?

I suspect it is the killing off of this, whether under the Gershon recommendation or the windback of the indigneous annexation strategy of the previous administration.

As for th reason of buying the desktops, my guess is that they bvanked on a bunch of work coming in, that was pulled out from underneath them. As the business took a knock they are now looking at liqidating all assets in light pending administration.

It is a shame to hear of this, but I suspect that there is going to be anjumber of these stories as the ICT strategies accross the board are looked over good and hard in the next eight to ten months.

As an aside, isn’t this rudimentary filling in of the gaps of pieces posted here really the job a freaking editor?

This does seem a mightily strange story.
Which Department, do you have a copy of the Purchase Order\Funding Agreement, under what Program were these funded, are you -certain- you’re legally able to sell them, etc…

Woody Mann-Caruso9:52 am 11 Feb 09

So are you saying DCITA/BCDE hasn’t actually given you any money for these PCs? They’re not encumbered by a funding agreement? No caveats over their disposal? You’re just free to sell them?

Specs, please.

Pommy bastard9:47 am 11 Feb 09

Keep them out of water. 🙂

I’m with PB. By the way, does the OP seem to suggest that the PC’s are somehow flood-proof? How exactly is that achieved?

Pommy bastard9:38 am 11 Feb 09

Donate them to the bushfire victims.

Yeah I’m a laptop and some old magazines. I totally need a home too. Any takers?

Yes, SPECS please and you might find some homes for them.

SPECS? Peripherals included?

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