12 March 2009

When is it OK to leave the scene of an accident? And what happens if I do?

| Elsie
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I was recently involved in a minor accident (less than $100 damage) but when I gestured for the other driver to pull off the road he jumped out of his car, moved towards me and became aggressive.

I have been a victim of crime and felt threatened so I drove off but reported the incident to the local police who felt I had behaved correctly.

The other driver reported a different version of events at a different police station and that officer has now charged me to appear in court.

I have a perfect driving record without as much as a parking fine. I have been involved in 2 other accidents, one in which I was at fault and on both occasions I stopped and exchanged details.

What can I expect and what is the worst that can happen?

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I think they missed their meds this morning.

Troll alert jessieduck. simplecon has turned up today & rubbished Canberra in any slightly related way they can in several threads.

simplecon said :

Are you sure you are not being Gangstalked by a group of bullies? It is almost a professional necessity and part of being socially acceptable to be part of a Gangstalking pack in Canberra. Keep a note of registration numbers and being done over for doing nothing particularly “bad” – see if it is a pattern.

Huh?

Are you sure you are not being Gangstalked by a group of bullies? It is almost a professional necessity and part of being socially acceptable to be part of a Gangstalking pack in Canberra. Keep a note of registration numbers and being done over for doing nothing particularly “bad” – see if it is a pattern.

print out this thread and present it in court as exhibit a – no judge could convict when the peers agree you’re ok, surely?

unless there is the third side of the event you’re not quite telling us [or, spiceydog, our l’il friend is in pokey by now..?]

Our little friend has not resurfaced to explain or answer some of the questions posed….. I smell a whole lot more to this story ??!!

barking toad1:41 pm 13 Mar 09

Phone Rickie Nixon – he’ll give you the drum

I had a similar experience a few years ago in Sydney so the procedures, rules etc maybe different. I was involved in a slight bingle where I was not in the wrong. I pulled over (in a safe area!) behind the other vehicle, where upon he jumped out of his car, ran to mine, screaming and banging his fists on my bonnet and approached my door. This was clearly a bloke not in control of his emotions and I felt threatened, he was much bigger than me.
I left the scene. About a week later I was contacted by the cops about this as he had reported it. I went to the local station, explained my version of events, showed the nice police lady the damage to my car, which corroborated my story. She agreed and I never heard anymore about it. Car was repaired under insurance but I can’t remember who paid, it was a company car so didn’t worry me and my no claim bonus was never affected.

AG Canberra said :

Ask to have it heard by Judge Judy…..

go for the peoples court whith the hottest judge around Marilyn Milian !

But anyway, legal advice from a bunch of random gits on an internet forum is hardly a smart move.

No no, these guys are just ‘blow ins’ Random gitness is a whole lifestyle.

Anyhoo, there’s a provision there in the act for bailing on a douchebag. You’ll have to make your case and the loose ends, they shall be tied.

Clown Killer9:47 am 13 Mar 09

I think Majorca is fantastic this time of year. They will never be able to get you extradicted from there.

Pixie! … More gas.

Ask to have it heard by Judge Judy…..

This sounds a bit iffy, exactly what did he do that was aggressive? And would it be seen as aggressive in the eyes of the law? Did you try to reason with him or were no words exchanged and you just drove off? Were you drinking or under the influence of drugs? Was there any other witnesses? So many variables…..

If they guy approached you aggressively and you drove off, then how do they even know it was you?
Obviously you were both there long enough for him to get your car make and number plate. Then the police usually visit to ask who was driving.
Leaving the scene is only a fine,,they don’t even make you go to court.

I too beleive there is more that is not being told.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy6:27 am 13 Mar 09

Represent yourself in court, IF the facts as you’ve given them are the whole story. Save the $$$ you would have spent on a lawyer. According to the facts as you’ve given them, there’s no way a conviction would stand up or be recorded.

Trouble is, actual facts are kinda thin according to what’s been posted here, and certainly aren’t the whole story.

Talk to your insurer.

Piratemonkey10:23 pm 12 Mar 09

Couldn’t you just go have a chat to legal aid?

Say here is what happened what do I do? I have a feeling they might agree with TAD. If their are no witnesses either way or some one on your side id say you’ll be fine. You do need professional advice tho. Legal aid will be able too tell you who to write too and what to say, or to get a lawyer.

Represent yourself in court, IF the facts as you’ve given them are the whole story. Save the $$$ you would have spent on a lawyer. According to the facts as you’ve given them, there’s no way a conviction would stand up or be recorded. Why don’t you contact the Victims of Crime support unit and get some advice from them? They’re located at the Court.

It’s understandable that the police who heard the other side may have assumed you left to avoid being tested for alcohol or whatever. Once you’ve given your statement of facts (and an outline of your state of fear) they are likely to withdraw the charge altogether, particularly if no-one was injured during the accident and the damage was $100. That seems an extraordinarily low amount by the way. Is that for painting a small scratch? Must be!

My advice is that you sit down and write your notes about what happened without further dealy. Then, talk to friends at work etc (as well as here) about who might be a good lawyer for traffic matters. I have been told Mark Fleming is the best in town for traffic matters. Do not delay any more.

If you don’t get off maybe you’d be able to write us a review of what it’s like on the inside of the new jail 😉

On second thoughts it might not be open – in that case how about an article on the overcrowding in the Belconnen remand centre??

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy9:32 pm 12 Mar 09

I reckon you need legal advice. Simply suggesting that the other driver ‘became aggressive’ is very vague, and really doesn’t mean anything? Did the other driver actually threaten you, raise their voice, etc?

What happened leading up to the accident? Did you tailgate, cut the other driver off, make a rude gesture? People don’t generally go mental over minor traffic accidents.

Also, who caused the accident? Were you doing something silly when it happened? Texting, talking on mobile, etc? I think there are a lot of people who post here that probably could help you, but more details are needed.

Well the only “legal” occasion to leave the scene of an accident is after you have exchanged details. Though you haven’t really defined how the other was being “aggressive” one would think that an imminent threat of danger or violence would be the only occasion to drive off (which I don’t really see in the info provided there). It would be handy if you had a witness to the accident, otherwise get a lawyer and see what they can do for you.

“but when I gestured for the other driver to pull off the road”

I don’t suppose he assumed you were giving him the one-finger salute…

I think Majorca is fantastic this time of year. They will never be able to get you extradicted from there.

bigfeet said :

“so I drove off but reported the incident to the local police”

When? Straight away, the next day, three weeks later? That will make a difference.

“that officer has now charged me to appear in court”.

By a summons? Out of the blue without police making contact with you beforehand? Were you given the opportunity by the police to present your side of the story or to make a statement?

Something tells me you are not telling the whole story here.

But anyway, legal advice from a bunch of random gits on an internet forum is hardly a smart move.

Go see a solicitor.

Agreed 🙂

“so I drove off but reported the incident to the local police”

When? Straight away, the next day, three weeks later? That will make a difference.

“that officer has now charged me to appear in court”.

By a summons? Out of the blue without police making contact with you beforehand? Were you given the opportunity by the police to present your side of the story or to make a statement?

Something tells me you are not telling the whole story here.

But anyway, legal advice from a bunch of random gits on an internet forum is hardly a smart move.

Go see a solicitor.

hmmm……i wonder….where did this happen elsie? (just roughly will do)i may have witnessed this incident…..

PS Disclaimer I used to work for the guy a while back when I was a student.

In my humble lay person’s opinion I would consider seeing a solicitor – if you approach the DPP directly and say the wrong thing this could be used against you later on. Instead, you could consider exercising your right to silence at this stage.

I’d suggest Herring and Associates of Queanbeyan/Canberra, not sure if they do things as relatively minor as this but the Principal of the firm is an excellent criminal lawyer and very client focussed.

3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth

See a solicitor

I think there is a little more to this story ?? Something is not adding up ??

Elsie said :

I have been charged with leaving the scene of an accident.

Is the charge for failing to exchange details or for failing to render assistance to an injured party ?

Righto, looking at the legislation

Australian Road Rules

287 Duties of a driver involved in a crash
(2) The driver must stop at the scene of the crash and give the driver’s required particulars, within the required time and, if practicable, at the scene of the crash, to:
(a) any other driver (or that driver’s representative) involved in the crash; and
(b) any other person involved in the crash who is injured, or the person’s representative; and

(3) The driver must also give the driver’s required particulars, within the required time, to a police officer if:
(a) anyone is killed or injured in the crash; or
(b) the driver does not, for any reason, give the driver’s required particulars to each person mentioned in subrule (2);

You can argue to the DPP that the other driver’s demeanour made it not practicable and that you satisfied 3(b) by informing the police instead.

Give it a crack, there are bigger fish to fry out there for the DPP and let us know how you go. You can always chuck in a request to the information access team for your original accident report (with the coppers names) if you didn’t get it at the time. http://www.afp.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/9720/FOI_Request_Info.pdf

I have been charged with leaving the scene of an accident.

No, the DPP is in charge at that point and can withdraw it if they desire. The horse has bolted for the copper regardless of what he becomes aware of.

On the first court date, you will have the “statement of facts” which you will need to disagree with the charge.

By the way Elsie, what charge were you charged with? You may be right purely by informing the police immediately after the accident.

TAD couldn’t these letters be written to the other police offecer now?
Or is it better to actually wait for a court date?

Traffic infringments are not admissable in ACT Courts so if you didn’t go to court before, you are a cleanskin.

Too many unknowns here, but in general, all accidents should be reported in person to the Police within 24 hours of the accident. When you make your report, you may ask for a reference for the report, and make note of where/when/to whom you made the report.

If as you say you have made a report, then there will be a record of this – this may be of use to you and your legal representative. Not too sure that you can quote yourself as having a perfect driving record, given that you have admitted to having been at fault in a prior accident. It would perhaps be more accurate to say that you are infringement free.

Also visit http://www.tams.act.gov.au/move/driver_licence

At your first appearance ask the Magistrate for the standard 3 week adjournment “to seek legal advice”.

In that period write a letter “A representation” to the DPP requesting that the charge be withdrawn. Advise of your version of events pointing out that you attempted to provide your details to the other driver but felt threatened and so left the scene at that time purely to avoid a physical confontation. Point out that this is supported by your attendance at the police station where you provided your version of events and details. Request that if the charge is not withdrawn, that the police you spoke with provide statements to support your defence. If you have a passenger or other witness to the incident to support you, chuck in a stat dec from them as well.

From there the DPP will weigh up the evidence, public interest and the informant’s opinion (the copper who charged you)and will decide if they can be bothered or not.

Don’t waste your money on a solicitor at this stage. You are worth more money to them if it goes all the way.

Good luck and trust a complete stranger on this one.

Get a Lawyer, can’t stress that enough.

Agreed on seeing a lawyer, but having some background ideas can’t hurt either.

I’d be surprised with our judiciary if they were not merciful on hearing your story, but obviously the other side of the story has something going for it too.

You need to speak to a lawyer. You could get advice here, but how would you know if it was right or not?

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