22 May 2009

Would it kill police to say thank you every now and then?

| Devil_n_Disquiz
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To start off with I should mention that I am a Canberra Cabbie. As such it is not uncommon (actually quite often) that we get messages on our MTData system that start off with “POLICE MESSAGE……” followed by some stolen car, person of interest, item of interest etc that they want us to look out for. And fair enough too,,with 300+ cabbies on the road at any given time it makes sense to have those extra eyes looking for things when the Police obviously can’t be everywhere.

However, now I am asking myself “It it really worth it”? Last night around 2325 I was involved in an incident where I gave assistance and copped attitude.

I was driving westbound on Isabella Dr with an intention to turn left into Ashley Dr. About 100m away from the roundabout I saw a car enter that same roundabout southbound on Ashley Dr (i.e. Wanniassa to Richardson direction). As I watched this car it was obvious that control had been lost and the car had ended up in the guard rail on the wrong side of the road and was facing oncoming traffic.

I pulled up alongside that car turned my hazards on and offered whatever assistance was needed to the visibly shocked young female driver. Another member of the public who had gone through the roundabout before her also stopped and returned to offer assistance.

A police vehicle happened by carrying a male and female officer and stopped with associated lights show, got out and the first three questions from the male were;

1) Who was driving ?

2) Are you hurt ?

3) Were you speeding ?

The last question I answered with “No, she wasn’t. She got unlucky and found herself in a slide that she could not arrest. But speed was not a factor”

(NOTE: The roads were wet at the time and I am sure that the accident was caused more by inexperience in wet conditions, that coupled with the fact that the direction she was travelling in and being in the outside lane, its not the most user friendly roundabout).

The police went about doing their thing and I just stood back waiting for what I assumed would be a request for my details being a witness to the accident and being there when the police showed up. But no request came. What I got instead was this dialogue

Female Cop ” Were you involved in the accident”

Me ” No ”

Female Cop ” Okay, well you can go now ”

Me “oh..okay”

Female Cop ” Oh..but before you go. Is your car registered”

Me (knowing it was) ” I hope so” then “Yeah, see. (pointing to rego label) thats a 6. Its only May ”

Female Cop “oh okay then”

So what my point in all of this ?

1) I believe the police were trying to find something to pin someone with as soon as they got out of their vehicle. The crash victim by asking if she was speeding and me with a friggin rego

2) No requests for my details came from either officer even though I was a witness. And in talking with a mate who is a member of the AFP, he seems to think that she will possibly face a neg drive charge !!!

neg?li?gence

1. the quality, fact, or result of being negligent; neglect: negligence in discharging one’s responsibilities.
2. an instance of being negligent: a downfall brought about by many negligences.
3. Law. the failure to exercise that degree of care that, in the circumstances, the law requires for the protection of other persons or those interests of other persons that may be injuriously affected by the want of such care.

C’mon…really ???

3) The attitude from the female police officer towards me. Rather than a “thanks for stopping and offering your assistance” I was told in a gruff manner that my presence was no longer required and oh by the way,,is your car registered. Her observational awareness is lacking it would seem.

4) Is helping the police going to make you feel better about them in general and give you warm fuzzies, or is it going to make you wonder why the blood hell you bothered in the first place when all you get in return is attitude. I think this female officers ‘bedside manner’ could be improved somewhat.

Anyway, before any one suggests I do. I have dried my eyes and Hardened TFU !!

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A well thought through post.

I would just like to make a couple of generalisations, which are in no way intended to apply to every individual in every situation.

Firstly, it takes a certain type of person to even want to become a police officer. That type of person is usually somebody with a social conscience who wants to do the right thing and help people out.

Secondly, after a while in the job, I can see that it’s easy to become bitter, or at least a little disappointed – spending the majority of your time dealing with less-than-desireable scenarios, drug- or alcohol-effected people, and people with pre-existing grudges against authority, these are not generally considered ideal ingredients for job satisfaction. Even if these things don’t turn them bitter, they could certainly give anybody a bit of a shell, if you like – a grim or gruff exterior, as a way of just coping with it all.

But the fact that they stay, they keep at it, doesn’t that say something? On the whole, they’re good people doing the best they can in often adverse situations.

It can’t be too surprising, given all of the above, that a police officer should occasionally display manners which can be interpreted as rude, or that “customer service” and saying “thanks” aren’t always at the forefront of their mind.

“Will you take it out on the next Constable you meet.”

Guarantee you they won’t. Would take bringing your net attitude into the real world.

Awaiting predictable response

I’ve been working since I was about 10 years old. Probably the lack of pot that I did ‘t smoke or that I have a good work ethic. Believe it or not I am quite polite to people and have good customer service skills.

Your example made you make an assumption about the rest of the organisation. You were walking home from the pub and were stopped and spoken with. How full of piss and bad manners were you? or do the comments people you perceive as Police on here add to your biases towards Police as a whole. Will you take it out on the next Constable you meet.

Deadmandrinking said :

Special G, I don’t know how you hold a job.

When you work for an organization, you represent that organization whilst perform your duties at work. Your conduct reflects on that organization and defines people’s experience with it. If you are not capable of maintaining a positive image for the organization, then you need to seek work elsewhere.

Also, if the cops had simply asked me what I was doing, I wouldn’t have had a problem. I’ve had that before (I usually walk home from the pub) and there hasn’t been an issue. These particular cops were trying to back me into a corner by insisting that I did something I didn’t, instead of simply establishing whether I could of done it. It was rude, it was unnecessary and it certainly contributed to giving me a negative opinion of the AFP and the conduct of their employees.

There’s no reason why they cannot perform their duties in a polite manner. No reason.

In Australia ‘organisation’ is spelt with an ‘s’.

And you wonder how OTHER people hold onto a job

Spideydog said :

It’s ok to have a bias against police …. They get training ROFLMAO. At the end of the day, I don’t really care if certain people have a bias against police or are anti-police. It is their prerogative and it’s comes with the job. I just enjoy having a “discussion” on here to see how the “anti-police” justify their stance. Some of it is freakin hilarious ….. HELP, HELP were in a police state …. lol

Deadmandrinking said :

I wasn’t offended by the suspicion, I was offended by the rude accusations.

What rude accusations ?????

DMD, you have heard about the youths being robbed in Tuggers recently ??? These are people just like you, on their way home from where ever they have come from, except some are being intercepted and being robbed of their possessions. (filthy scum robbers) Guess what DMD ….. The police patrol these areas and do stop youths/people late at night/morning and are suspicious. Police will ask, what are you doing? where have you been? where are you going ? Who are you? … etc, etc Police aren’t issued crystal balls to tell exactly who the innocent people are and who the potential robbers are. Robberies aren’t committed by people in black and white stripped clothing to depict exactly who and what they are, they look exactly like the innocent youths/persons police stop and speak to all the time.

of course, if we were in a police state, no crystal ball would be required. we would all be guilty of something.

I have to admit that every time I have dealings with the police, be it an RBT (most fun for me, as i don’t drink), witness to an accident or just when i phone in to report some mad guy sitting on the middle barrier on the parkway, idiot doing burnouts in our street, etc, etc, the police that I have spoken to have been courteous, and I have never been spoken to in a demeaning or rude manner by them.

when i had an accident, and went into woden police station to report it, The person behind the counter even went through the forms with me, so as to ensure that the information was accurate, and i understood exactly what i was doing. I appreciated the assistance, and told him so.

he got me to explain to him what the accident was, where it occured and showed me how to write it into the form. (I was rear ended at the red light camera at the turnoff lane – turning into boddington, the light was red, and i had stopped. the driver in the car behind me thought I was “going to take it”, and sped up, then hit me – funny thing was I have 3 brake lights which were all lit up…) but, considering that i had never filled one in before, and was a bit shaken up, I was very well looked after.

There probably are police out there who aren’t as courteous, but i haven’t met them yet.

Well, I won’t argue what occurred on your particular incident, as I weren’t there. it is obviously an issue between you and the officer/s that night.

Deadmandrinking said :

It was rude, it was unnecessary and it certainly contributed to giving me a negative opinion of the AFP and the conduct of their employees.

Yes, I can see that. For the same reason I don’t go back to particular shops, restaurants, etc because of the way I/we have been treated by their employee’s or indeed management.

Deadmandrinking1:42 pm 25 May 09

Special G, I don’t know how you hold a job.

When you work for an organization, you represent that organization whilst perform your duties at work. Your conduct reflects on that organization and defines people’s experience with it. If you are not capable of maintaining a positive image for the organization, then you need to seek work elsewhere.

Also, if the cops had simply asked me what I was doing, I wouldn’t have had a problem. I’ve had that before (I usually walk home from the pub) and there hasn’t been an issue. These particular cops were trying to back me into a corner by insisting that I did something I didn’t, instead of simply establishing whether I could of done it. It was rude, it was unnecessary and it certainly contributed to giving me a negative opinion of the AFP and the conduct of their employees.

There’s no reason why they cannot perform their duties in a polite manner. No reason.

It’s ok to have a bias against police …. They get training ROFLMAO. At the end of the day, I don’t really care if certain people have a bias against police or are anti-police. It is their prerogative and it’s comes with the job. I just enjoy having a “discussion” on here to see how the “anti-police” justify their stance. Some of it is freakin hilarious ….. HELP, HELP were in a police state …. lol

Deadmandrinking said :

I wasn’t offended by the suspicion, I was offended by the rude accusations.

What rude accusations ?????

DMD, you have heard about the youths being robbed in Tuggers recently ??? These are people just like you, on their way home from where ever they have come from, except some are being intercepted and being robbed of their possessions. (filthy scum robbers) Guess what DMD ….. The police patrol these areas and do stop youths/people late at night/morning and are suspicious. Police will ask, what are you doing? where have you been? where are you going ? Who are you? … etc, etc Police aren’t issued crystal balls to tell exactly who the innocent people are and who the potential robbers are. Robberies aren’t committed by people in black and white stripped clothing to depict exactly who and what they are, they look exactly like the innocent youths/persons police stop and speak to all the time.

If you find it rude being stopped and asked some “rude” questions on your way home (or interrogation as you may call it) then so be it. But if this “interrogation” didn’t occur, there would be no crime prevention and more people, just like you being robbed, bashed etc, etc.

Deadmandrinking said :

vg said :

“I was actually unaware that black people and homosexuals had special training “

They do. That explains how they dance better than me

It could improve public relations if they included those courses with the Police.

Then they could tap dance around those members of the public who behave like idiots and impede an accident investigation.

DMD – Doesn’t matter how you justify it. An irrational bias towards a group – be it any group is basically the same thing.

I don’t like junkies – my set of biases based on my dealings with that particular group.

You mentioned Police hassle you on your way home from the pub. That is what the Police are paid to do (by you remember you pay their salaries). What you should be doing is thanking them for patrolling your neighbourhood and speaking to people.

Deadmandrinking12:52 pm 25 May 09

vg said :

“I was actually unaware that black people and homosexuals had special training “

They do. That explains how they dance better than me

It could improve public relations if they included those courses with the Police.

“I was actually unaware that black people and homosexuals had special training “

They do. That explains how they dance better than me

Deadmandrinking11:30 am 25 May 09

Special G: W-h-hat?

Piggist? That’s it, I’m starting the Bacon BBQ Bunch! BBB, we’ll be in your town a’lynchin’ with white hoods and ‘love the chef’ aprons!

I was actually unaware that black people and homosexuals had special training and were part of an organization that had a certain set of standards, of which compromise could see them held accountable by the public. I was unaware that black people and homosexuals had to wear special uniforms so people could identify them (blue hats?). I was unaware that black people and homosexuals had powers of arrest and could give out tickets.

I now realize that by criticizing an organization for the actions of it’s representatives, to who the responsibility of training their employees, and those employee’s behavior in the field falls, I am essentially a card-carrying National Socialist. I would like to change my ways by first stating that I love Telstra, Westpac and Microsoft.

Please, Special G, help me change my Piggist ways!

I guess those cops had recently used a Canberra cab and were treated like a leper with swine flu from the driver thought personal hygiene was someone who wore their pants to high!!!

Not quite astrojax. Ant doesn’t like Police and is tarring them with the same brush regardless of who they are. Which in turn suggests he would display a poor attitude whenever dealing with the Constabulary regardless of who they are.

I would suggest he is then met with polite and courteous although blunt without the extra mile in terms of public relations.

Some people don’t like police. Some people don’t like black people, homosexuals etc…

Police wouldn’t be in the profession if they didn’t want to do something to help the community. The money and work conditions are just not that good.

nice pun vg.

swine flu – pigs.

I like humour.

by the same token, special g, walk a mile in ant’s shoes and you will see the world in a different light. or mine. what’s the real point here?

i take it from ant’s various postings that should ant’s world ‘go to poo’ then police will be called and respected and would be treated according to how they behaved; as you would treat them, no doubt.

seems a piffling argument you’re brooking. seems like time to give up and grow up.

“Walk a mile in a Policemans shoes and you will see the world in a whole new light”

I have a sneaking suspicion he would prefer socks and sandals

As for the rest of this piffle:

“Would it kill police to say thank you every now and then?”

Yes it would, it is a major cause of death and illness in Police world wide. Thankfully they didn’t thank you as this could have spread like swine flu

ant said :

So, Special G, you’ve decided that several of us are now criminals, because we dare to question the actions of the police? You don’t need us to highlight your shortcomings at all; you do it so much better yourself. Is it hard to walk once you’ve shot all your feet off?

Never at any point did I even elude to you being a criminal ant. Your worse. You are one of those people who treat the Police with disdain because of your holier than thou attitude and delusions of self importance.

It is no wonder you have had bad experiences with Police if you approach a dealing with your underlying attitude. If you treat someone with contempt because of their profession expect to be treated with contempt personally. I expect they still do their job as that is what beig professional is I just expect you don’t get the smile and a hug that you are searching for.

You’re the type of person who treats Police like servants and prattles off lines such as “I am a law-abiding taxpayer”, “I work and pay tax”, which is just another way of saying “I pay your wages.” Here’s news for you Police pay tax as well. You probably give them helpful tips on how they should be doing their job as well. Following that you then complain about the inadequate service you received as they did not kiss your arse in just the way you like it.

Bear in mind next time your world as you know it goes to poo the Police will still turn up and still sort it out for you and still be underpaid and underappreciated.

Walk a mile in a Policemans shoes and you will see the world in a whole new light.

barry ottor said :

Despite our disagreements before Granny is spot on. The letter from community liaison is a beauty. It’s a good job monomania and DJ are only capable of point duty and aren’t let within cooee of community policing.

Care to explain why you are an ex?

Devil_n_Disquiz said :

Police 1 Devil 0

Off duty police officer spewed in my cab last night.

Personally, I find this rather hilarious considering.

bd84 Can I get a hammer too pls. If so..I’ll gladly arrange for you to drop the supplies off. Cheers.

Karma? How did you know their occupation?

ant said :

So, Special G, you’ve decided that several of us are now criminals, because we dare to question the actions of the police? You don’t need us to highlight your shortcomings at all; you do it so much better yourself. Is it hard to walk once you’ve shot all your feet off?

Huh? Where are you named as a criminal?

Deadmandrinking11:51 pm 24 May 09

“f people are offended by a police officer that is suspicious, may need to reflect a little – not that I’m saying this is the case with Devils scenario.”

I wasn’t offended by the suspicion, I was offended by the rude accusations.

Deadmandrinking said :

Special G said :

and to add to that Police rock. Congrats to all the men and women out there doing the job and putting up with people like Devil, ant, farq and DMD.

Only weak people like being stood over. If you think it’s appropriate to tolerate rude and unprofessional behavior from someone just because they wear a uniform, then let me tell you, you are going to be to be pushed around for the rest of your life.

Spideydog, there is a major difference between being suspicious of someone and antagonizing them. You can be suspicious and polite at the same time. In fact, it’s usually better to maintain a clear channel of communication between people if you’re being polite.

WTF are you going on about DMD ….. Did I not say that there is a difference between being suspicious and being dis-courteous ???? So aren’t I saying that being suspicious and polite is the way to go …. ???? Read before you type. Give me strength !!!!!

Sorry ant you are but a few, not the vast public opinion you are trying to make out.

For as long as I have frequented here ant, you have done nothing but “bash” police or “show your disappointment” as you like to creatively call it. Not once have I seen a positive comment come from you about policing.

Despite the plethora of comments I have made that police are NOT above reproach and are accountable for their actions, you still blindly throw the same garbage of : “You are not above reproach, just because you are police” In fact there have been plenty of threads were you have thrown out anti=police comments when the thread had nothing to do with law enforcement.

You are allowed to be anti-police ant, it is a free country. Why don’t you just admit it ???

And where exactly did I “belittle” the accounts of those who speak up in this thread as you so eloquently pointed out ??

Deadmandrinking11:19 pm 24 May 09

+1 to ant.

I do not have a criminal record. I work and pay tax. Why should I be treated differently because I’m young and choose to walk home from the bar occasionally? Would they prefer if I was driving?

Deadmandrinking11:16 pm 24 May 09

Special G said :

and to add to that Police rock. Congrats to all the men and women out there doing the job and putting up with people like Devil, ant, farq and DMD.

Only weak people like being stood over. If you think it’s appropriate to tolerate rude and unprofessional behavior from someone just because they wear a uniform, then let me tell you, you are going to be to be pushed around for the rest of your life.

Spideydog, there is a major difference between being suspicious of someone and antagonizing them. You can be suspicious and polite at the same time. In fact, it’s usually better to maintain a clear channel of communication between people if you’re being polite.

Spideydog said :

ant said :

Sadly, the fact remains, that no matter how many actual instances of underwhelming police behaviour are reported

Underwhelming is the key word there ant. You seem to forget how many times it is told to you that the internet is an open forum where the “truth” cannot be gauged …… so sorry that people do realise that and therefor are a little skeptical. You do have some of the naive people here that believe everybody’s “stories” on here and run with them.

People are just as entitled to be pro-police as you are anti-police.

I am not anti-police, Spideydog. I am disappointed with the police. I am a law-abiding taxpayer who has had very little to do with the police, but in most of my dealings with them, I’ve been surprised and disappointed.

And while you and your colleagues continue to belittle the accounts of those of us who do not go Rah Rah the police are so wonderful, you confirm why we are disappointed. You are not above reproach, just because you are police. We are your public, and we are speaking. You, however, are not listening.

So, Special G, you’ve decided that several of us are now criminals, because we dare to question the actions of the police? You don’t need us to highlight your shortcomings at all; you do it so much better yourself. Is it hard to walk once you’ve shot all your feet off?

and to add to that Police rock. Congrats to all the men and women out there doing the job and putting up with people like Devil, ant, farq and DMD.

I actually think Senior Constable XXXX XXXX put the apology well – apparent poor attitude – apparent being the optimum word.

Should have charged Devil for hindering an investigation.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy6:54 pm 24 May 09

I just read through the latest on this thread. Talk about a storm in a teacup, geez…

Deadmandrinking said :

I think it is on topic, Spideydog, as we appear to be discussing why Police should be polite and not add stressors to what it usually a stressful situation.

Having one’s liberty taken away from them is a frightening experience, regardless of whether it does get followed through or they get released without charge. There are numerous things a person can start doing when under extreme stress that could see them being deprived of their liberty. Refusing to communicate, becoming violent, running away – all of those are possible reactions, especially when someone is being antagonized whilst stressed. Think if someone has had a previous really bad experience with police – a migrant from a third-world country, perhaps?

The Police, most importantly, need to establish that they are there first and foremost to help, not to imply that everyone is a criminal. It’s offensive at the very least.

Yes, but Police aren’t there to suck up to every person they meet either. They are meant to deal with the public in a professional and courteous manner.

I’m sorry m8, but police with a bit of experience will usually be suspicious of EVERYONE. I have dealt with a 40-50yr old female that appeared as honest and normal as they come (could have been your or my Mother, figuratively speaking of course) and guess what ….. she gave false name, false address false details …….. People lie to Police DMD, even the ones that appear honest and as normal as you and me. BUT …. there is a difference to being initially suspicious and being dis-courteous though. If people are offended by a police officer that is suspicious, may need to reflect a little – not that I’m saying this is the case with Devils scenario.

Granny said :

It was probably monomania.

After all, there’s no proof that it wasn’t him. Therefore it probably was. And he probably did it on purpose because he doesn’t like fools like you and other idiot members of the public.

Why shouldn’t I make stuff up. I reckon my guess is probably better than many other’s.

I didn’t make anything up on the post just speculated on the reasons for the police behavior towards Devil_n_Disquiz at the accident scene and of the police person whose email he posted as a justification that this behaviour was untoward. Using evidence provided by his own words and those of Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX

He interfered with a police investigation by interrupting the questions being asked of the primary witness.

Male officer    Who was driving?
Female driver  I was.
Male officer    Are you hurt?
Female driver  No.
Male officer    Were you speeding?
Female driver 
Devil_n_Disquiz No, she wasn’t. She got unlucky and found herself in a slide that she could not arrest. But speed was not a factor.

The question about speeding was a perfectly reasonable lead in to ask the primary witness so the police could find out what the driver thought had happened.

Interfering with police at accident scenes is what makes some members of the public idiots. Not helpful to anyone. No wonder the female officer felt Devil had nothing more to contribute and that it would be better if he left the scene. After all they had heard what he had said.

Granny said :

I think the police did an excellent job of addressing the issue. It’s unfortunate that the thread has continued past that point. I would like to reiterate that I agree with Spam Box. It was a class act.

What a load of bullshit. Class act indeed! Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX says exactly why she was contacting Devil_n_Disquiz

What I was actually hoping to make contact with you about is your role as a cab driver and the information flow that exists between taxis in the ACT and ACT Policing. I’m a Liaison Officer with ACT Policing’s Crime Prevention’s Community and Business Liaison portfolio and am in the process of attempting to set up processes where we can improve communication with such networks such as taxis, buses, etc with the aim, as you so correctly pointed out….

and to gain your support begins

First up I’m sorry for the apparent poor attitude and manner of police while speaking to you at the incident you were at last night.

Perhaps the police officers involved, if they had been asked rather than been undercut, could have pointed out that Devil_n_Disquiz was impeding them doing their duty and was asked to leave because he wasn’t needed or appeared to be biased.

Devil_n_Disquiz did ypu ask Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX if it was OK to post the Email? For politeness sake you renamed this officer.

Whoops, she …. sorry, lol

Devil_n_Disquiz4:49 pm 24 May 09

@ #113

Nah..she didn’t. But I never asked for it. 🙂

Deadmandrinking12:45 pm 24 May 09

Spideydog said :

Deadmandrinking said :

Spideydog, you said that it was like other areas of customer service. I was explaining that it wasn’t.

We are trying to stay on topic here DMD. The reference for my opinion is in relation to Police allegedly talking rudely to members of the public. This thread was never about taking someone’s liberty away.

In relation to liberties though, police members are under far greater scrutiny than probably any other workforce. I don’t know many at all, that have to provide a FULL disclosure of their history, provide their fingerprints, submit to random drug and alcohol tests, all their work subject to FOI, all work is scrutinized and vetted and I could go on and on on. I am sure if your workplace introduced all these measures you would cry a breach of your civil liberties. Police members are accountable for their actions and their work is transparent to help ensure public confidence. So there is no confusion, I do agree with the above measures that are in place, and they are required, I just find it frustrating that there is some people that say that police members are unaccountable, unwatched and are “off the leash” to do whatever. There are also far more avenues to complain about police members than there is for other workplaces/occupations.

I think it is on topic, Spideydog, as we appear to be discussing why Police should be polite and not add stressors to what it usually a stressful situation.

Having one’s liberty taken away from them is a frightening experience, regardless of whether it does get followed through or they get released without charge. There are numerous things a person can start doing when under extreme stress that could see them being deprived of their liberty. Refusing to communicate, becoming violent, running away – all of those are possible reactions, especially when someone is being antagonized whilst stressed. Think if someone has had a previous really bad experience with police – a migrant from a third-world country, perhaps?

The Police, most importantly, need to establish that they are there first and foremost to help, not to imply that everyone is a criminal. It’s offensive at the very least.

Tooks, I understand that there are many incidents where people get a positive interaction with police. You should also know, however, that the riot-act isn’t an accurate representation of the community at large and most certainly (well, i don’t think) and accurate representation of those who do deal with the police often. We have no way of telling how many of that 100,000 was positive for members of the public, no way of telling how many were negative either.

I hope he paid the soiling fee ??

Devil_n_Disquiz11:57 am 24 May 09

Can I just say that I was mostly amused by the spewing incident last night. I certainly was not criticising the member in any way, shape or form. There was no malice from either side nor should there have been. I guess what I was trying to relay (albeit unsuccessfully) via the typed word was that I found it all co incidental in light of the recent thread I had originated. I had a chuckle about it all, happily cleaned up the mess and carried on with my shift.

But I guess mono et al are going to suggest now that I would like a medal and a thankyou, a pat on the back and a big hug for this now too ?? 😉

Granny said :

I think the police did an excellent job of addressing the issue. It’s unfortunate that the thread has continued past that point. I would like to reiterate that I agree with Spam Box. It was a class act.

I am not going to continue to post on this thread because I think it has reached the point where I’m also hurting posters I care about, and no argument with one poster is worth that.

I thank you for all the times that you have been there to help, sometimes at the lowest times in my life, and for all the times that you’ve treated me with dignity, mercy, compassion and gentleness.

I hope that you do realise that certain attitudes can hurt you, but that is a matter for you to sort out among yourselves. I wish you safety, respect and happiness.

Take care out there,
Granny.

+100

Devil_n_Disquiz said :

Police 1 Devil 0

Off duty police officer spewed in my cab last night.

Personally, I find this rather hilarious considering.

bd84 Can I get a hammer too pls. If so..I’ll gladly arrange for you to drop the supplies off. Cheers.

There are plenty of “cab drivers behaving badly” stories that could be told here too Devil. The cabbie industry is not immune to bad customer service. There are plenty of instances I know off that police have assisted cabbies and far from a thank you was given. But then again plenty have too (been thankful i mean). If it is true that you have had a bad experience, I am sorry for that and hopefully that issue is resolved for you.

PS sorry for the 3 posts in a row 🙁

I think the police did an excellent job of addressing the issue. It’s unfortunate that the thread has continued past that point. I would like to reiterate that I agree with Spam Box. It was a class act.

I am not going to continue to post on this thread because I think it has reached the point where I’m also hurting posters I care about, and no argument with one poster is worth that.

I thank you for all the times that you have been there to help, sometimes at the lowest times in my life, and for all the times that you’ve treated me with dignity, mercy, compassion and gentleness.

I hope that you do realise that certain attitudes can hurt you, but that is a matter for you to sort out among yourselves. I wish you safety, respect and happiness.

Take care out there,
Granny.

It’s more the bullying that I dislike.

WTF? Here we go again…

Deadmandrinking said :

Spideydog, you said that it was like other areas of customer service. I was explaining that it wasn’t.

We are trying to stay on topic here DMD. The reference for my opinion is in relation to Police allegedly talking rudely to members of the public. This thread was never about taking someone’s liberty away.

In relation to liberties though, police members are under far greater scrutiny than probably any other workforce. I don’t know many at all, that have to provide a FULL disclosure of their history, provide their fingerprints, submit to random drug and alcohol tests, all their work subject to FOI, all work is scrutinized and vetted and I could go on and on on. I am sure if your workplace introduced all these measures you would cry a breach of your civil liberties. Police members are accountable for their actions and their work is transparent to help ensure public confidence. So there is no confusion, I do agree with the above measures that are in place, and they are required, I just find it frustrating that there is some people that say that police members are unaccountable, unwatched and are “off the leash” to do whatever. There are also far more avenues to complain about police members than there is for other workplaces/occupations.

ant said :

Sadly, the fact remains, that no matter how many actual instances of underwhelming police behaviour are reported

Underwhelming is the key word there ant. You seem to forget how many times it is told to you that the internet is an open forum where the “truth” cannot be gauged …… so sorry that people do realise that and therefor are a little skeptical. You do have some of the naive people here that believe everybody’s “stories” on here and run with them.

People are just as entitled to be pro-police as you are anti-police.

“Like I said, a thank you would’ve been appropriate, but it’s hardly an issue worth what will probably end up being a 100+ post thread.”

I just wanted to blow my own trumpet by highlighting my amazing psychic ability.

ant said :

Sadly, the fact remains, that no matter how many actual instances of underwhelming police behaviour are reported, some people will continue to abuse those doing teh reporting, belittle them, claim that the police were justified, and imply that those reporting the incident were up to something.

Rather like the incidents that people are complaining about. What a strange coincidence.

Here’s another fact, ant. Canberra police attended over 100,000 incidents (ballpark figure) in the last 12 months. Out of those 100,000, a small handful of rioters reported their disappointment at the service they got from police. Out of that small handful, I doubt any of them actually contacted the AFP directly to report it, which could indicate they were fairly (relatively) minor complaints.

I’ve got no problems with people commenting on their bad experiences with police, but I think a little bit of balance and perspective would be nice.

Granny is on to something! He certainly has a shifty look about him. However, Devil was no doubt up to something and probably deserved it. People are too quick to criticise a Member spewing in a cab and don’t know the full story.

It was probably monomania.

After all, there’s no proof that it wasn’t him. Therefore it probably was. And he probably did it on purpose because he doesn’t like fools like you and other idiot members of the public.

Why shouldn’t I make stuff up. I reckon my guess is probably better than many other’s.

Devil_n_Disquiz9:35 am 24 May 09

Police 1 Devil 0

Off duty police officer spewed in my cab last night.

Personally, I find this rather hilarious considering.

bd84 Can I get a hammer too pls. If so..I’ll gladly arrange for you to drop the supplies off. Cheers.

Sadly, the fact remains, that no matter how many actual instances of underwhelming police behaviour are reported, some people will continue to abuse those doing teh reporting, belittle them, claim that the police were justified, and imply that those reporting the incident were up to something.

Rather like the incidents that people are complaining about. What a strange coincidence.

Devil_n_Disquiz said :

Monomania,

1) I did not ‘rudely’ butt in as you suggest
2) I did not interfere with the officers duties as you allege
3) I did not answer on her behalf, I answered as a witness

And as the young lady was very distraught, shocked, crying and in general a total mess of course asking her if she was speeding was a reasonable request. What better time to ask someone when they have a million other things spinning around in their head.

So you tell me. What is the issue here ?? The fact that I answered a question, or the fact that there is a police officer swanning around out there somewhere who obviously can’t read ??

Its been said before. Common Courtesy was what this was about. Nothing more, nothing less.

Give up, you’re not going to get your gold star that you seem to desperately want. Your intent on following up with a non-issue such as not getting “OH thank-you sir your efforts have been absolutely awesome” from the officers is rediculous. I’ll personally buy you some wood and nails to build help you build your bridge to get over it if you like?

Granny said :

It’s more the bullying that I dislike.

                           ?

It’s more the bullying that I dislike.

Granny said :

If monomania is the police then that is my first very, very, very negative experience from which I may never recover.

Well you must have had a charmed life. I’ve had heaps of very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very, aweful experiences. But I’m resilient and have got over them.

Just because I think devil is a fool and Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX is an ambitious orificer who is prepared to climb over the top of those officers actually out there on the front line dealing with idiot members of the public what could possibly make anyone think the police would employ me?

If monomania is the police then that is my first very, very, very negative experience from which I may never recover.

Despite our disagreements before Granny is spot on. The letter from community liaison is a beauty. It’s a good job monomania and DJ are only capable of point duty and aren’t let within cooee of community policing.

Deadmandrinking8:36 pm 23 May 09

Spideydog said :

Deadmandrinking said :

Spideydog, very few areas of customer service could see you deprived of your liberty, that’s why is fundamental for cops to be professional in their dealings with the public.

Nowhere have I said Police don’t need to be professional, so i don’t know why you would direct that comment to me. You only get deprived of your liberty if you have done something wrong or for your protection. You shouldn’t have anything to worry about then. Besides I dont know where you would get “allegedly” being spoken to rudely is deprivation of liberty……

My point was simply that there avenues for one to complain if they feel they were dealt with unprofessionally. The same with any other profession/orgainsation.

Spideydog, you said that it was like other areas of customer service. I was explaining that it wasn’t.

Also monomania…I doubt there’s much respect in the world for those who win arguments by boring people to death.

Granny said :

*yawn*

Good. You’re bored and for once I can get the last word.

Granny said :

I rest my case.

Well I have no idea what your case is. It doesn’t seem to have much to do with this post. You are not even reading the lines let alone between them.

Deadmandrinking said :

Spideydog, very few areas of customer service could see you deprived of your liberty, that’s why is fundamental for cops to be professional in their dealings with the public.

Nowhere have I said Police don’t need to be professional, so i don’t know why you would direct that comment to me. You only get deprived of your liberty if you have done something wrong or for your protection. You shouldn’t have anything to worry about then. Besides I dont know where you would get “allegedly” being spoken to rudely is deprivation of liberty……

My point was simply that there avenues for one to complain if they feel they were dealt with unprofessionally. The same with any other profession/orgainsation.

monomania said :

Why shouldn’t I make stuff up. I reckon my guess is probably better than many other’s.

I rest my case.

I’m with DJ on cab drivers. Most of the ones I see pay little to no attention to the road rules. I would check any cab for registration and licence status of the driver.

Wait…cab drivers are required to have a licence? Most of those guys couldn’t drive a nail into wet newspaper with a sledgehammer.

Granny said :

Mono is quite happy to invent all sorts of details, like whether the officer who wrote the email was the supervisor of the officers involved, whether the officers were spoken to prior to the email being sent.

Mono knows it all, and if not, makes it up.

Because of course if an email doesn’t say that something was done, then of course it wasn’t. Proof. QED.

Don’t be silly. If Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX had spoken to the officers concerned they would have said so so that they could ingratiate themselves even more.

And I never said Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX was their supervisor just that I had some like Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX. Since they were driving a marked police car around it is unlikely they were in the Community and Business Liaison Team – Crime Prevention.
That Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX was a senior to the officers is highly probable. Why shouldn’t I make stuff up. I reckon my guess is probably better than many other’s.

Mono is quite happy to invent all sorts of details, like whether the officer who wrote the email was the supervisor of the officers involved, whether the officers were spoken to prior to the email being sent.

Mono knows it all, and if not, makes it up.

Because of course if an email doesn’t say that something was done, then of course it wasn’t. Proof. QED.

Devil_n_Disquiz5:56 pm 23 May 09

OMG penny drops. Mono, you must have been one of the coppers that night. Because only if you had been one of them would you know there was any annoyance on their part. Because up until now annoyance on the part of the police was never the issue either.

You seem to be bringing up so many issues that are and were non issues.

oh and BTW..if you wanna insult me, get up earlier.

Whatever ….

: )

Granny said :

Insult away! The police will love you.

I’m not insulting the police. Just Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX and Devil_n_Disquiz.

Devil_n_Disquiz said :

Monomania,

1) I did not ‘rudely’ butt in as you suggest
2) I did not interfere with the officers duties as you allege
3) I did not answer on her behalf, I answered as a witness

And as the young lady was very distraught, shocked, crying and in general a total mess of course asking her if she was speeding was a reasonable request. What better time to ask someone when they have a million other things spinning around in their head.

So you tell me. What is the issue here ?? The fact that I answered a question, or the fact that there is a police officer swanning around out there somewhere who obviously can’t read ??

As far as I’m concerned any butting in is rude. Once the police are there asking questions it is their scene. Playing white knight, deciding how someone else should be treated and being a witness when the driver is being asked a question is butting in. No wonder the police were annoyed.

Insult away! The police will love you.

Granny said :

If you want to fantastise some scenario of punishment, retribution and betrayal that’s nothing to do with me.

I think it is exactly what I said it was. It’s up to you if you want to become dramatic. And I don’t think that particular Email should be taken as any vindication that Devil was in the right. He is making too much of it if he believes so. A bit of public relations Schmooze.
Maybe Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX is a member.

Devil_n_Disquiz5:26 pm 23 May 09

Monomania,

1) I did not ‘rudely’ butt in as you suggest
2) I did not interfere with the officers duties as you allege
3) I did not answer on her behalf, I answered as a witness

And as the young lady was very distraught, shocked, crying and in general a total mess of course asking her if she was speeding was a reasonable request. What better time to ask someone when they have a million other things spinning around in their head.

So you tell me. What is the issue here ?? The fact that I answered a question, or the fact that there is a police officer swanning around out there somewhere who obviously can’t read ??

Its been said before. Common Courtesy was what this was about. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you choose to attack certain police officers that’s between them and yourself. I’m sure that she or he is more than capable of justifying their actions to you, should they deem that to be necessary.

I stand with the vast majority of Rioters that support the police and consider this to be simply a nice and sensible gesture on their part.

If you want to fantastise some scenario of punishment, retribution and betrayal that’s nothing to do with me.

Granny said :

It is purely supposition on your part that anything of the kind occurred – unflattering and insulting supposition.

Devil’s behaviour is in the details of his OP and xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx’s in his Email.
Unproven but not unfounded if you bother to reread the Email. And they arn’t the first unflattering and insulting comments made by riotACTors.

It is purely supposition on your part that anything of the kind occurred – unflattering and insulting supposition.

Granny said :

So you criticise the actions of Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX after criticising out other commenters for criticising the actions of a different police officer. Masterstroke! Must do wonders for the morale of police who might read RiotACT.

Point taken, nevertheless I found this public criticism by one, probably more senior Police Officer of others based on a report on RiotACT bizarre particularly given Devil’s own description of what happened has him interfering with them carrying out their duty. Devil gives the details. The policeman asked a reasonable question of the young lady and Devil rudely butted in to the conversation to answer on her behalf.

‘Giving up’ these officers to use Devil and his taxi connections for the Community and Business Liaison Team’s own purposes?

The evidence of Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX’s action has been posted, #57. Nowhere does he/she indicate that they have attempted to check the facts.

Not generalising much …. They have always been lovely to me, male and female alike.

Die Lefty Scum3:37 pm 23 May 09

More to the point, would it kill cops to have some semblance of a personality? Or is it a pre-requisite of the job that they be excessively dour?

monomania said :

I have had superiors like this in the past. I wonder if Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX actually spoke to the officers involved to get their take on the situation. Probably not since it’s easier to try and placate you. Among all the derogatory and hateful comments from others this must do wonders for the morale of police who might read RiotACT.

So you criticise the actions of Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX after criticising out other commenters for criticising the actions of a different police officer. Masterstroke! Must do wonders for the morale of police who might read RiotACT.

“First up I’m sorry for the apparent poor attitude and manner of police while speaking to you at the incident you were at last night. We would like to be able to say that ACT Police officers always display the highest levels professionalism in all matters but its not always the case.”

“And finally, and I apologise that these sorts of things always seem to come to little and to late, thanks. As both a Police Officer and a member of the Canberra community we do greatly value people who are help others and/or assist the Police.”

I have had superiors like this in the past. I wonder if Senior Constable XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX actually spoke to the officers involved to get their take on the situation. Probably not since it’s easier to try and placate you. Among all the derogatory and hateful comments from others this must do wonders for the morale of police who might read RiotACT.

Deadmandrinking1:09 pm 23 May 09

Special G said :

Deadmandrinking said :

Even real cops read this site!

As opposed to fake cops with plastic handcuffs and velcro pants? I’m sure they are probably here too given the numbers JB puts out monthly.

I’m sure there’s a few commenting here 🙂

Spideydog, very few areas of customer service could see you deprived of your liberty, that’s why is fundamental for cops to be professional in their dealings with the public.

ant said :

The email from the liaison person is encouraging, and especially in the way that it acknowledges that there ARE problems with the attitudes of some police. The senior constable doesn’t try to brush it under the carpet or say that Devil is “wrong” like certain police persons posting here.

No one has ever said that Police are perfect ant. If perfect police is what your after, you gonna be waiting a bloody long time. You find poor customer service in ALL walks of life. If you encounter what you perceive to be poor service, the avenues are available to complain, as with all organisations.

Deadmandrinking said :

Even real cops read this site!

As opposed to fake cops with plastic handcuffs and velcro pants? I’m sure they are probably here too given the numbers JB puts out monthly.

Deadmandrinking12:44 pm 23 May 09

Even real cops read this site!

The reply email was a class act, very impressive.

nice letter in response, devil – ta for posting.

and newbie ‘car g’ @35, your driving you described was negligent; you’re simply lucky that the police merely took an incident report as opposed to attending the scene and investigating it (when they would have been obliged to take some sort of action, so issue you with a pill). don’t kid yourself… as i said (again) in @7, take responsibility.

Yes, it’s a really good idea!

The email from the liaison person is encouraging, and especially in the way that it acknowledges that there ARE problems with the attitudes of some police. The senior constable doesn’t try to brush it under the carpet or say that Devil is “wrong” like certain police persons posting here.

The idea of formalising a way to use bus and cab drivers as “eyes” for the police on the road is also a really good one. How often would these drivers see things happening on the road? Daily, hourly even. some proper way for them to let the police know, and some useful way for the police to use that info, would help everyone I reckon.

There you go! Yay the police!! And this is why I love ’em!

: )

I have generally had positive experiences when dealing with the AFP. And I know this is a broad generalisation, I have found it is often the female cops who seem to have the poor attitude. In this case, what the hell did his rego have to do with the accident. Why not ask if he was carrying hard drugs? Are they trying to show they are tough in a male world or what?

Devil_n_Disquiz1:04 am 23 May 09

bd84. I guess to someone as blind as a bat asking me about my rego would seem like a reasonable question. But as there was a purple sticker on the window with a bloody great 6 on it, it makes as much sense as me asking her if she was in actual fact a police officer even thought her pullover had “POLICE” stitched in great big letters. Lets be fair dinkum here if she wanted to know if the car was registered, have a look at the sticker like every other police officer would.

Incidently, I was in my own personal car when I happened upon this accident. However I was going home from have finished a shift, so was in uniform. Mind you, if she couldn’t read my rego sticker I hardly think she would have noticed “SILVER SERVICE” stitched on my shirt either.

Anyway, I received this email yesterday

++++
Thanks for responding.

First up I’m sorry for the apparent poor attitude and manner of police while speaking to you at the incident you were at last night. We would like to be able to say that ACT Police officers always display the highest levels professionalism in all matters but its not always the case. From reading your post on Riot I gather you just wished to open the attitude perceived by you up for discussion but if you wish to make a formal complaint then I’m happy to provide you with the details to do so.

What I was actually hoping to make contact with you about is your role as a cab driver and the information flow that exists between taxis in the ACT and ACT Policing. I’m a Liaison Officer with ACT Policing’s Crime Prevention’s Community and Business Liaison portfolio and am in the process of attempting to set up processes where we can improve communication with such networks such as taxis, buses, etc with the aim, as you so correctly pointed out, to utilise the eyes of those people who are out and about Canberra, in far greater numbers and less obvious than that of marked patrols. I was hoping I could chat to you or some of your colleagues as to how you think this process could be improved. Of course I also intend to hold discussions/get some feed back via more formal channels but I would appreciate the views of those actually working as well as that of management.

And finally, and I apologise that these sorts of things always seem to come to little and to late, thanks. As both a Police Officer and a member of the Canberra community we do greatly value people who are help others and/or assist the Police.

Regards,

XXXXX XXXXXXX
Liaison Officer
Community and Business Liaison Team
Crime Prevention

S/CONST XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX
TEAM MEMBER
ACT POLICING
AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE
+++++++

Name XXX’d for privacy.

Thanks to John for his help with this too.

They could have also said something harmless like ‘we’ll take it from here’, or even (shock horror) ‘thanks’.

Same result, but everyone is happy.

AussieGal83 said :

I’m not surprised at all. Typical behaviour from those pig bastards.

Typical respose from idiots?

Anyway, back on topic. The police were in no way rude to you. They asked 3 questions to do a preliminary assessment of the accident and what happened. They established that you weren’t involved in the accident so they allowed you do leave. They asked you an additional question about your registration (which doesn’t sound too unreasonable) and you gave them a smartalec answer. They wouldn’t have asked for your details as it was a single vehichle accident and there were no injuries, so rightly allowed you to leave. Now you’re complaining because they did this instead of giving you a hug and a big gold medal for stopping to help. Build a bridge..

Err cop meets cabbie…throw in a real estate agent and the three most sus “professions” in Canberra would be represented.

I’m not surprised at all. Typical behaviour from those pig bastards.

Or she might have a father dying of cancer, or found out her kid was into drugs, or been in the middle of a messy divorce, or not slept well the night before, lost her wallet or just generally been having a bad day.

Nobody is saying all cops are jerks, Special G. It’s just unfortunate when it happens is all.

And most taxi drivers I’ve had have been great here in Canberra. I don’t think it’s any more right to generalise about cab drivers than it is about police, and certainly no more true.

Just to make the three post nutbag status:

barry ottor said :

DJ mate, I really think you should get out of the job, you are embarrasing yourself and your colleagues. If i was your super I would be having a quiet word about the damage you are doing on here

There is a saying ‘there is nothing more x than an x-cop.’

Is this you barry?

Back on topic.

Speed was obviously a factor in how she managed to spin herself off a roundabout. If she was going slower then she would have negotiated the turn and not been negligent enough to crash her car putting herself and other roadusers – including you – at risk.

I’m with DJ on cab drivers. Most of the ones I see pay little to no attention to the road rules. I would check any cab for registration and licence status of the driver.

Mind you this is one side of the story and who knows how the other side goes. The cop may have just been a jerk. I hate all cops they are all jerks.

dvaey said :

I had 2 experiences similar. Someone had lost a load of various metal things (looked like a chopped up oven grill tray) in the middle of athlon drive a few weeks ago. While sitting at the lights, I looked across and saw these things in the middle of the road (approx 100 of them). I then pulled over to the median, got out of my car and cleaned up the mess. While I was doing this, I was having to avoid traffic including 2 buses which fortunately saw what I was doing and avoided the metal. One car didnt, and found his tyre picked up 2 bits. Anyway, as I was cleaning this mess up, a police car pulled up at the lights, wound down his window, saw me cleaning the stuff off the road in-front of oncoming traffic, wound his window up and drove off.

Another instance similar but different to the OP story.. I hit a kangaroo in tuggeranong around 9pm one evening. Only a couple of minutes after hitting the roo, with my car still in the middle of the road, 5 police vehicles passed me with lights/sirens flashing. Not one of them stopped to assist the accident-damaged car in the middle of the road, or the dead Kangaroo in the oncoming lane, they simply swerved to avoid us.

The problem I see with this, is police spend 99% of their time dealing with people theyd rather not be dealing with and in situations theyd rather not be in. Its only human nature that if you deal with assholes all day, you dont stop to think that someone youre dealing with, might be in the 1% that you deal with. At least, thats the only reason I can think of. Plus, if you call emergency services, they come to help. An ambulance or firefighter has no purpose other than to help you. A police officer has no purpose other than to hold someone accountable for some action. This is a big reason why I believe the police have so little respect when compared to other emergency services. Honestly, the last time I remember a positive experience with the police, was when I was about 4 years old and Kenny Koala made a joke that made me smile.

I think you have a few issues.

It is every road users responsibility to remove debris from the road. It is an offence not to. Mind you better to stop and use the party lights to block the road. or call Canb connect and get street sweepers to do it.

5 cars with lights and sirens – might be there was something more urgent than your minor bingle.

If you think Police aren’t ther eto help people then you are seriously deluded about the work Police actually do. You’d be surprised.

Some Police have an attitude problem. Maybe you should have contacted the Tuggeranong Police Station and spoke to the Station Sergeant and put in a formal complaint. That is your right as a citizen and if you feel that your help wasn’t acknowledged then you have every right to feel annoyed.

Doesn’t pay to assist at all these days and if a simple ‘thank you for your assistance wasn’t even said’ what does it say about ‘leading by example’. I thought they were supposed to be trained for being professional and compassionate at all times…what a joke.

Deadmandrinking6:51 pm 22 May 09

Barry, DJ’s entitled to his own opinion as an individual. As long as he doesn’t start compromising people’s right to privacy by drawing on information which has not been released to the public, I am happy to hear what he has to say…and passionately disagree.

I agree with Granny, it is a power thing. For any official that has the power to deprive you of your liberty if they feel you have done something wrong, it is important that communication with them is made as clear as possible. This means either side needs to be polite and friendly, as not to cause unnecessary stress that may impede the flow or clarity of information.

I have had dealings with very friendly police-officers and I have had dealings with some very rude officers, especially this pair that pulled me and my mate up after we were walking home from the Labor club. They ID’d us and then asked us where we’d been. When we said the Labor club, one immediately said, “No, you’ve been climbing around in those buildings over there, haven’t you?” (referring to the offices at belconnen which were undergoing construction at the time) When we replied that..err…no we hadn’t, this same officer said, “We got your other mates down at the station.” At this point and time, I felt very intimidated (and rather pissed off, which is not a good state to be in if you’ve been drinking), as we were being accused of something we actually hadn’t done in a very aggressive manner. Thankfully, another car pulled up and a very friendly female officer managed to determine that we hadn’t been in the building. The original officers didn’t apologize, they just scowled at us and got back in their car.

It’s that kind of behavior that contributes to an unhealthy relationship between the police and the public, and in cases like the one I described, the police and young men – who are a demographic the police really need to be able to communicate with. I understand cops are human, and, to be honest, had one of those cops simply said something along the lines, ‘Sorry about that mate, having a bit of a tough night.’I wouldn’t have minded and I would have said that it was alright. The fact is, however, they didn’t. They treated us antagonistically from the get-go, and left in the same manner. It’s this sort of behavior that sees police treated the way they are by a lot of people.

Finally, I’d like to jump to the defense of cabbies. Cabbies perform an important job in our society and are severely underpaid for what they do. Just think of how many people use cabs every day. I owe many a cabbie for ensuring I get to work on time when I’m running late, I owe them for getting me home when I had less than the fares worth, I even owe one for pulling over when I was walking home from work in the rain at about 2am and giving me a lift home when I told him that I didn’t have the cash for a fare. The fact that the go out there at some crazy times and take enormous risks of getting robbed, assaulted or even killed for so very little an hour earns them enormous respect from me.

GardeningGirl6:45 pm 22 May 09

Devil, I’m sorry you were left feeling bad about what happened. Sometimes it’s difficult in the retelling to adequately convey just how the situation felt.

sepi said :

I’d be annoyed too.
I used to live near some shops and we used to get doorknocked by police asking if we’d seen/heard anything. So they were happy to ask for our help. Yet if we ever rang them to report dodgy goings-on at the shops they were rude and dismissive over the phone and always too busy to repond. I gave up trying.

Same here. Knock at the door, burglary up the street, did we see anything? But when I rang to report a neighbour’s alarm going off, no we don’t respond to alarms.

FC said :

I think its just dependent on the attitude of each individual policeman you deal with. As in all situations. I’m sure another policeman, another day and we would have both got very different responses.
Don’t be disheartened. Just keep being the helpful citizen you are 🙂

Good post FC, and good on you!

dvaey said :

The problem I see with this, is police spend 99% of their time dealing with people theyd rather not be dealing with and in situations theyd rather not be in. Its only human nature that if you deal with assholes all day, you dont stop to think that someone youre dealing with, might be in the 1% that you deal with.

My theory too.

And as always, wise words from Granny.

Devil, don’t be a twit. The police were probably pissed off because of your obvious self importance. They asked the driver if they were speeding and you butted in with “No, she wasn’t. She got unlucky and found herself in a slide that she could not arrest. But speed was not a factor”.

Why should they put up with this interference with them doing their job. And then when asked about your car rego because of your previous behaviour you go “I hope so”

So what do you want from these people? Deference. A medal for seeing an accident and resonding.

I agree, smack.

Barry if you were his super you would know how to use punctuation. I think you will find we all appreciate the personal views of the different Police who post on this site.

DJ mate, I really think you should get out of the job, you are embarrasing yourself and your colleagues. If i was your super I would be having a quiet word about the damage you are doing on here

The fact is you as a policeman do have more power than me as an ordinary citizen.

In theory there might be things I could do about that, but in practice it would have to be extreme.

When you walk up to me in your uniform with your authority I will feel intimidated to some degree.

If you are kind and helpful and polite to me I will think well of you and defend you on forums such as RiotACT, which I do. I will want to cooperate with you and help you to do your job. I will tell my children, these are people you can look up to and trust.

If you are rude or unjust I will feel the opposite way.

It is in every police officer’s interests to take their mates aside and say, “Hey, that could have been friendlier or more polite. It reflects on all of us, you know.”

It’s good public relations. It’s not rocket science.

If I were you I’d be saying, “We’re all human. I’m really sorry you had that experience. Of course we’re grateful you stopped to help. I always try and treat the community with respect and encourage other officers to do likewise.” Or something like that.

That’s my opinion. Take it or leave it. You should know from nearly every other thread how highly I think of you guys.

I disagree with the more power more need to serve idea. You mention corruption and the use of power? That has nothing to do with a taxi driver being spoken to about an acident does it? If you were in an accident you would want to know it was being investigated fully and so do all parties involved.

I prefer the professional approach mixed with the notion that you’ll get treated like you act.

Not stereotyping – I did, rather generously I think, allow that it was ‘not all’ and ‘again, not all’.

Most of my dealings with the police have been very positive, and I am a very strong supporter of our police, but I am with devil on this.

The more power a person has the more they need to serve. And that is really, really important to prevent cultures of corruption and abuse that have from time to time been rampant in other forces.

DJ said :

Cab drivers are full of it. Poor Devil, boo hoo *sob* a Police Officer asked you a question trying to figure out what happened.

My extensive experience with them is that most (not all) couldn’t lie straight in bed and if you really drive a taxi you should know this from experience.

Most (again not all) don’t know what they are doing nor do they care about their passengers.

Boo hoo – get over it.

whoa. stereotyping much?
I don’t hink his problems was as much with asking the questions, but treating him with a rude manner.

Cab drivers are full of it. Poor Devil, boo hoo *sob* a Police Officer asked you a question trying to figure out what happened.

My extensive experience with them is that most (not all) couldn’t lie straight in bed and if you really drive a taxi you should know this from experience.

Most (again not all) don’t know what they are doing nor do they care about their passengers.

Boo hoo – get over it.

eyeLikeCarrots3:25 pm 22 May 09

AG Canberra said :

Once the atomic carrots turned up I got out of the way after providing my details to the cops as a witness. My brolly turned up a week later in the mail – with a short note thanking me for the assistance.

atomic carrots…. what do irriated vegtables have to do with it ?

OP – some (very few in my exp) are dicks, not alot you can do but hope not to catch one on a bad day (unless you can piss them off to the point of beating the shit out of you unlawfully in public)

Also, apart from HTFU, dry eyes and storm/teacup, you might want to remember that the big girl wants her blouse back ? (just a koke btw).

the Neg driving charge does seem a bit odd to me. I recently crashed my car (Right outside the motor registry in Dickson!) due to it being wet, Rear wheel drive and maybe, possibly, slightly, ive heard rumours of my car being a little bit too powerful for me…..

Anyhow, long story short was that the police didn’t attend, as there was no one hurt, I managed to avoid all oncoming traffic and ended up doing a 180 spin, hitting the gutter and mounting it, completely destroying my rear right wheel – Axel was actually broken, car was a write off.

I reported it to police the next morning, and they just told me to fill out an incident report and to be on my merry way.
Perhaps if the police attend a crash, they are inclined to charge you with neg driving, if not then its at their discretion? Seems like government transparency is a little blurred here. I feel sure that if i had damaged some propery (not just chipping 500gms of concrete off the curb) then they may have charged me….

haha vy and tooks 🙂

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy3:06 pm 22 May 09

I’ve been involved in roadside incidents a few times over the years, and I’d have to say that on the whole, I’ve found the cops to be very good to deal with.

BenMac said :


I think you answered your own question there.

Yeps, obviously something fairly serious was going on.

I got a ‘thanks for helping’ a few years ago after stopping at a highway smash in pouring rain. Me holding my golf umbrella over a trapped driver kept him mostly dry until the ambo’s arived. Once the atomic carrots turned up I got out of the way after providing my details to the cops as a witness. My brolly turned up a week later in the mail – with a short note thanking me for the assistance.

But yep Devil – most of my experiences with the ACT coppers have been pretty confrontational – they assume anyone at the scene is a criminal first….

NWA love the police!

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:21 pm 22 May 09

What did NWA say about the police…?

Only a couple of minutes after hitting the roo, with my car still in the middle of the road, 5 police vehicles passed me with lights/sirens flashing. Not one of them stopped.

I think you answered your own question there. You don’t know where they were going or what they were going to. Imagine if you were in trouble but the Police didn’t come because they stopped to help a dead kangaroo.

Heres a hint, congratulate a copper ona good job every now and then..

Whenever I get RBT’d, I make a point of stating that I appreciate what they are doing.

I would hate to be a cop in this town, smiling whilst eating sh1t seems to be the order of the day. People expect robotted up cops who are no thuman and display no emotion.

Heres a hint, congratulate a copper ona good job every now and then..

The problem I see with this, is police spend 99% of their time dealing with people theyd rather not be dealing with and in situations theyd rather not be in.

While I think that the above statement may well account for a lot of grumpiness amongst police, I don’t think it is usually as bad as people think. Vast majority of the time I have had face to face contact, it has been professional and courteous, if not friendly. However sometimes you just get someone who is acting like a jerk. This may be because they are having a bad day, because they consider you a potential threat, or because they really are just a jerk.

While cruising along the highway in an RFS tanker we came up to a accident which has a couple of police vehicles already there with lights on. When we politely asked if they needed a hand, we were told very curtly to keep on going. At the time it was a surprising response, made harsher by the tone, but it turned out not to be a accident, so much as a major drug bust involving the deliberate ramming of a vehicle, and at the time we pulled up, guns were still out and pointed.

Apart from entertaining anecdotes, my point is, that sometimes dealing with situations might take enough of a cops attention so as to appear ruder then they intend.

Deadmandrinking1:06 pm 22 May 09

Jim Jones said :

I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a rude cabbie.

A drunk one (that was scary: his wife had just left him, he’d been drinking all day and was swinging between bouts of angry tirades and depressive wails – to make matters worse, I was stoned out of my gourd and too freaked out to do much but hang on and try not to freak out) and a stack of crazies, yes. But they’ve always been either very friendly and eager for a chinwag, or politely quiet.

Yes, I wasn’t actually sure where tooks got that comment from in the first place.

And I think public discussion about how our police perform their duties is worth a little more than individual apologies that no-one hears about.

I had 2 experiences similar. Someone had lost a load of various metal things (looked like a chopped up oven grill tray) in the middle of athlon drive a few weeks ago. While sitting at the lights, I looked across and saw these things in the middle of the road (approx 100 of them). I then pulled over to the median, got out of my car and cleaned up the mess. While I was doing this, I was having to avoid traffic including 2 buses which fortunately saw what I was doing and avoided the metal. One car didnt, and found his tyre picked up 2 bits. Anyway, as I was cleaning this mess up, a police car pulled up at the lights, wound down his window, saw me cleaning the stuff off the road in-front of oncoming traffic, wound his window up and drove off.

Another instance similar but different to the OP story.. I hit a kangaroo in tuggeranong around 9pm one evening. Only a couple of minutes after hitting the roo, with my car still in the middle of the road, 5 police vehicles passed me with lights/sirens flashing. Not one of them stopped to assist the accident-damaged car in the middle of the road, or the dead Kangaroo in the oncoming lane, they simply swerved to avoid us.

The problem I see with this, is police spend 99% of their time dealing with people theyd rather not be dealing with and in situations theyd rather not be in. Its only human nature that if you deal with assholes all day, you dont stop to think that someone youre dealing with, might be in the 1% that you deal with. At least, thats the only reason I can think of. Plus, if you call emergency services, they come to help. An ambulance or firefighter has no purpose other than to help you. A police officer has no purpose other than to hold someone accountable for some action. This is a big reason why I believe the police have so little respect when compared to other emergency services. Honestly, the last time I remember a positive experience with the police, was when I was about 4 years old and Kenny Koala made a joke that made me smile.

I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a rude cabbie.

A drunk one (that was scary: his wife had just left him, he’d been drinking all day and was swinging between bouts of angry tirades and depressive wails – to make matters worse, I was stoned out of my gourd and too freaked out to do much but hang on and try not to freak out) and a stack of crazies, yes. But they’ve always been either very friendly and eager for a chinwag, or politely quiet.

Ceej1973 said :

deezagood said :

I personally have found my (few) interactions with the Feds to be extremely positive; the officers were very polite and considerate. Maybe you just got unlucky … perhaps the officers in question were having an off-day?

I concur. Personally, I hate Westpac because of bad customer service, but when I rang thier hotline the other night to report a potential ATM skimmer fixture, the lady I got was extremly pleasant, and thankful. Gotta take the good with the bad, I guess!

Shitty, shitty customer service at the big banks has become the norm I’m afraid – almost to the point when you actually have a pleasant bank encounter you feel uplifted by the experience (and thankful enough to report it on RA!)- which is actually kinda sad really. Bring back excellent custmer service at banks (they can surely afford it).

That cabbie comment was a bit harsh. My apologies.

I haven’t had any dealings with the Canberra police in recent years, but when I did encounter them a few years back (to report things, or when they were asking me about things), my experience was similar to what Devil has reported here.

They seemed not to notice things, made lots of negative assumptions, didn’t listen to information, and were rather truculent.

And yes, now I’ll be accused of being “anti police” and other things. I guess that’s easier than dealing with a problem that numerous people have experienced. If you shout and insult loud enough, that makes you right, apparently.

Devil_n_Disquiz said :

deezagood. You have summed it up brilliantly in just two words. ‘Common Courtesy’. Something that seems to be lacking these days.

A bit rich coming from a cabbie

Deadmandrinking said :

Tooks said :

Yeah a thank you would’ve been nice. In answer to your question “is it really worth it?” (helping people), I would say it’s always worth doing the right thing when you’re able to.

Also, in the time it took you to write your lengthy post, you could’ve written to the station involved where the relevant people would’ve read it and responded.

So…he could have written to the station and gotten a forced apology and thanks, which would mean squat, or he could have brought this attitude to the attention of the public, where similar stories have been told, which would mean more people are made aware of this attitude and that it is being discussed by members of the public.

Which also means squat. Put it this way, if I was to start a thread about every rude cabbie I’d encountered, or every rude customer service staff member, or nurse, or tradesman etc, it would be a full time occupation (and clog up this site).

Like I said, a thank you would’ve been appropriate, but it’s hardly an issue worth what will probably end up being a 100+ post thread.

deezagood said :

I personally have found my (few) interactions with the Feds to be extremely positive; the officers were very polite and considerate. Maybe you just got unlucky … perhaps the officers in question were having an off-day?

I concur. Personally, I hate Westpac because of bad customer service, but when I rang thier hotline the other night to report a potential ATM skimmer fixture, the lady I got was extremly pleasant, and thankful. Gotta take the good with the bad, I guess!

sounds about right.

they seem to be issued with a standard-issue ‘bad attitude’ at the same time they are handed their uniform and gun.

i wish the ‘attitude test’ applied two ways.

Agree. When you put on a uniform (police, defence, fire etc…) you immediately represent the organisation that you work for and rightly or wrongly, any lack of courtesy/inappropriate behaviour reflects poorly on the organisation that you represent. Having a bad day is really no excuse for casting dispersions on the wider organisation – as has obviously been the case here. I hope this is a once-off.

Devil_n_Disquiz11:40 am 22 May 09

deezagood. You have summed it up brilliantly in just two words. ‘Common Courtesy’. Something that seems to be lacking these days.

I think you are right to be miffed regarding the way that you were treated, especially when you went out of your way to be helpful. Common courtesy should have prevailed and a ‘thanks’ really wouldn’t have hurt. I’m sure the young driver was enormously grateful to you though, especially if she was shaken up by the incident.

I personally have found my (few) interactions with the Feds to be extremely positive; the officers were very polite and considerate. Maybe you just got unlucky … perhaps the officers in question were having an off-day?

Deadmandrinking11:11 am 22 May 09

Tooks said :

Yeah a thank you would’ve been nice. In answer to your question “is it really worth it?” (helping people), I would say it’s always worth doing the right thing when you’re able to.

Also, in the time it took you to write your lengthy post, you could’ve written to the station involved where the relevant people would’ve read it and responded.

So…he could have written to the station and gotten a forced apology and thanks, which would mean squat, or he could have brought this attitude to the attention of the public, where similar stories have been told, which would mean more people are made aware of this attitude and that it is being discussed by members of the public.

Deadmandrinking11:06 am 22 May 09

Danman, the fact that this story has brought up similar stories means it is a topic worth discussing.

I understand cops are human, but they do need to understand that they are dealing with people. When people offer assistance, especially in the manner that FC did, where they put their physical safety on the line, they at least deserve to be told they did the right thing, instead of being treated like a criminal.

Otherwise, if this is how people who make sacrifices to help others for no personal gain are treated, then what sort of society are we contributing to making? We do need to understand policing is a difficult job, but cops need to understand that they deal with people in some difficult times.

Yeah a thank you would’ve been nice. In answer to your question “is it really worth it?” (helping people), I would say it’s always worth doing the right thing when you’re able to.

Also, in the time it took you to write your lengthy post, you could’ve written to the station involved where the relevant people would’ve read it and responded.

Devil_n_Disquiz10:53 am 22 May 09

Danman.

I am aware of the decent coppers in our community. I have dealt with them often. This event was not and is not ombudsman worthy. It was an observation I wanted to share. I’m not looking for pats on the back from random rioters.
However, some kind of acknowledgment at the time of the incident would have been far more appreciative than just being blown off.
Maybe this copper could have patted me on the back and said “Well done you did the right thing” But I would have been happy with a simple “thanks”

Coppers are people in jobs too, everyone wants them to be everywhere all the time.

I am not denying that they may have treated you untoward, but does RA really need more police bashing..I can assure you that there are a lot of decent coppers in the community who go about their day to day in exceedingly good fashion for years and only get noticed when they stuff up. Like any job really, but becaus ethey are in the public eye, they cop it a lot.

My first step would be consulting the ombudsman, instead you chose to look for strangers on a forum to pat you on the back and say well done, you did the right thing.

even in wet conditions (especially in wet conditions!) cars don’t drive themselves, on or off the road. unless the roundabout was adversely affected by some foreign substance (oil, etc) that this young lady couldn’t have foreseen, then of course she is ‘negligent’ and will cop a ticket. what if someone had been waiting to cross the roadway where she ditched the car?

otherwise, i agree that the ‘act policing’ respect for your assistance was well underdone… but don’t try to defend such grossly and obviously negligent driving.

another example where we need, as motorists, to take responsibility. the car didn’t lose control; she did.

You should of told the female cop “yeah this lady was speeding, I was following her & my speedo showed we were doing 600k’s per hour.”

But accident victim, was driving too fast for the conditions & her car may of had some faults. I say this as when my front wheel drive car’s tyres start to loose tread, in the wet the wheels want to keep turning right on a roundabout, while the car body wants to go straight ahead. This is rectified with my slowing right down then normal in the wet.

But heading southbound on Ashley Drive on that Isabella Drive roundabout is quite a sharp turn & if you aren’t careful, you can end up loosing control.

I can understand where you are coming from. You try and help the police out as much as you can, and go out of your way to assist someone in need and provide information regarding an accident and instead of being treated with thanks, you were treated as criminal.
I had a similar experience when I was younger and catching the buses to my friends house on a friday evening I stopped a young girl from being beating up in the interchange. (I intervened and held the people who were hitting her away from her and protected her behind me while I negotiated with them and explained that it wasn’t tough of them to be ganging up on a single person blah blah blah. Now they could have easily attacked me but being naturally tall and the fact that I intervented, maybe they thought I secretly knew karate or something so they didn’t start up with me.
Point of the story:
The police arrived while I was still keeping myself between the girl and the group. They asked what was going on and said “break it up”, by which stage most of the offending group disbanded and I began to exlpain to the officer what had happened. He was shaking his head and didn’t seem to listen to a word I said, instead he acted like I was a trouble maker, involved in a “brawl” instead of a community member who had intervened to protect a young girl. They would have been dealing with a much messier scene if I hadn’t been there so I was pretty annoyed at this. It would have been different if I was still in my work suit and not in my ‘party clothes’.The way he spoke and treated me left me feeling pretty terrible. Anyway the girl was at least thankful.

Moral of the story – this cop was just a self rightous jerk.
He was a cop, yes.
But primarily – he was a jerk.

I think its just dependent on the attitude of each individual policeman you deal with. As in all situations. I’m sure another policeman, another day and we would have both got very different responses.
Don’t be disheartened. Just keep being the helpful citizen you are 🙂

Devil_n_Disquiz9:35 am 22 May 09

Danman. Ah, my bad. Got the HTFU bit, got the dry my eyes bit. Totally forgot about the classic storm, teacup thing. Thankyou.

PB. Unfortunately the written word can’t show ‘how’ something was said. Believe me this officer was far from polite.

I’d be annoyed too.

I used to live near some shops and we used to get doorknocked by police asking if we’d seen/heard anything. So they were happy to ask for our help. Yet if we ever rang them to report dodgy goings-on at the shops they were rude and dismissive over the phone and always too busy to repond. I gave up trying.

Good on you for stopping to help out anyway. I”m sure the poor girl appreciates it, even if the police didn’t.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Maybe the police could have asked if the driver was hurt first before asking who was driving, but that’s just a personal view, and they probably have a specific order to work through.

As for their dealing with you, they probably got the cab number, and the female officer seems to have been very polite.

And the third point, you don’t have to be speeding to face a neg driving charge. If you put other people at risk through your driving, the charge sticks.

storm, teacup, you….

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