22 June 2009

Theft By Finding - Is CISAC Operating Professionally?

| crankymum
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After swimming for nearly two hours at the Canberra International Sports and Aquatic Centre on Saturday with my two young sons, I (whilst being whined at by my hungry, tired offspring) failed to notice that we had left two pairs of sports shoes behind.

When I rang on Sunday morning to find out if the shoes had been located, the helpful girl on the phone went and checked the area I had left them – and even looked in the change rooms for me! No luck; but I was assured that lost property was kept in the cleaner’s area for a week or two before being donated to charity.

Um – no. Actually, CISAC management has had a new policy for the last couple of months or so. ANY item left by the public that is not jewellry or a watch is binned by the cleaners when found. No Exceptions.

So my trip out to CISAC this morning has left me furious at the negligent, dishonest policy that leaves me trying to work out how to buy shoes for the kids; on a budget that only allowed a visit to the CISAC through some fairly stringent tight-fistedness in the first place.

I insisted, by the way, on inspecting the cleaner’s area for my sons’ shoes. I discovered the pile of clothing and swim aids, dumped in the bins out the back of the centre, and searched for my property there. My stuff wasn’t there; but if you lost your Kathmandu jackets, or a Trent Nathan shirt, you should duck aroung behind the centre and look for yourself.

Of more concern, and certainly more disturbing, I was appalled to see rehabilitive aids as well as kids’ kick-boards in the bin – how low can you get, chucking out items used by the less able in the community!

Now, from enquiries I have made, whilst the management are not open to charges of Theft By Finding, they may be liable to civil action.

Certainly I would like to think that if their complaints form has to include a warning that “abusive feedback may not be responded to” then surely the easier course would be to re-designate a holding area for lost property, instead of inflicting outraged customers on the usually young staff at the counter?

End Rant.

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Pass the popcorn WMC

HarryK said :

for the record, CISAC, Club Lime and Club Pink spend in excess of $200k a year ‘supporting the community’.

We are under no obligation to do this, but provide such sponsorships, donations, and other incentives/benefits etc as a good corporate citizen.

Harry
CISAC

This amount of money I would not doubt one little bit, given the extortionate prices (both for entry fee and the inflated goods prices on site), I paid the last and only time I took my two kids there.

More annoying than most was the fact that for this fee, near to all areas were unavailable to me and my kids, excepting the kiddies splash pool and one solitary lane in the big pool.

Upon inquiry of the less than helpful staff, if the other facilities were available on other days, I was met with ” ‘Nup, It’s just the way it is”.

As for the no obligation bit, taking more than is fair up front accruing interest on it then selectively giving it back does not qualify you for being a good samaritan. I wouldn’t crow too loudly there.

I’ve exercised my free choice not to return and fund their gold plated pool, I’d suggest all else do the same if you’re not happy.

Woody Mann-Caruso12:24 pm 24 Jun 09

*eats popcorn*

DIE THREAD DIE!

quote]

Oh yeah. I’m just so keen to hook up with someone who has trouble keeping shoes on their children’s feet, and blames the local swimming pool for it.

Nah, you know you’re just playing hard to get.

‘Sides, with your charm, intelligence, and evident quality being so publicly displayed, I am just helpless – I want to have your babies!! Now!! I want there to be more little JimJones running around!

crankymum said :

It is always good to pick up new ways of making the most of the family budget, and I thankyou for sharing.

As it is, the fact that I had to drag my poor kids around Woden shopping centre until I had found shoes (that satisfied my budget, as well as my scruples about providing the least-damaging footwear)… well, it was an unplanned expense and had to be done before the next school day. Hence the hissy-fit.

Jiiiiimmmmmeeee… I think I loooooove yooooooouuuuuu…..

Oh yeah. I’m just so keen to hook up with someone who has trouble keeping shoes on their children’s feet, and blames the local swimming pool for it.

You know us Oxygen Thieves and Welfare Parasites – we breed spontaneously, no assistance (for once) required.

Why does the Canberra Times webiste not have Graham Downies’ contact details? Is he still on staff?

crankymum said :

Ooo – Oooooo!

I forgot – AND I have No Mobile Phone!!! Just a landline, and since I have no friends, I don’t waste money on phone calls.

Well, you have a couple of kids, so you must have had at least one friend…

BerraBoy68 said :

HarryK said :

BerraBoy68 said :

HarryK said :

for the record, CISAC, Club Lime and Club Pink spend in excess of $200k a year ‘supporting the community’.

Harry, can you advise what this $200k goes towards (e.g The Salvo’s, St Vinneies, free lessons for the disabled etc.)is for please. Throwing a number out there is meaningless wihtout some detail. Thanks.

BTW: my wife is an occasional worker at CISAC.

its a combination of things.. we sponsor and assist a lot of sporting teams; ie:

Raiders
Raiderettes
Part of the consortium that helped bring Matt Giteau back to Brumbies
About 10 to 15 local sporting teams (Rugby League, Union, AFL, Soccer)
Camp Quality Escarpade
Diabetes Functions – major sponsor of one or 2 of their events per annum
Donations to fundraising events
Raffle prize donations
Major naming rights sponsor of Womens Soccer in the ACT
Free pool hire to Disability students via ACT Swimming
Discounted pool hire for Royal Life saving Society – ACT Public Schools Learn to Swim
RSCPA Annual Black Tie Fundraising Dinner sponsor
Kevin Wells, a mountain bike rider
104.7 SKYFIRE
etc, etc….

Harry
CISAC

Thanks Harry. Some good stuff in there – except providing help to the Raiders:)

berraboy, someone has to.

It is always good to pick up new ways of making the most of the family budget, and I thankyou for sharing.

As it is, the fact that I had to drag my poor kids around Woden shopping centre until I had found shoes (that satisfied my budget, as well as my scruples about providing the least-damaging footwear)… well, it was an unplanned expense and had to be done before the next school day. Hence the hissy-fit.

Jiiiiimmmmmeeee… I think I loooooove yooooooouuuuuu…..

Woody – just for the record, my bank balance is currently hovering around the $0 amount. I’m not trying to be mean.

Crankymum as for $50+ for a pair of kids shoes, seems a bit excessive since you said they were sneakers and you can’t afford anything. I get away with waiting for the big chains to have a buy one get 2nd one 50% off, tend to pick up high quality shoes for my 8 yr old nieces for about $20 each. Their feet are comphy in them, and the cost proves worthwhile as 6 months later they have outgrown them anyways.

crankymum said :

Now, if you are still confused by my shrill insistence – don’t read any more of these posts. It is just going to lead to a hell of a mid-life crisis, when you suddenly realise you have grown up to be just like that boring old lady carping on about incomprehensible, real-world issues…

Thanks for the warning but you are entertaining in a odd kind of way.

HarryK said :

BerraBoy68 said :

HarryK said :

for the record, CISAC, Club Lime and Club Pink spend in excess of $200k a year ‘supporting the community’.

Harry, can you advise what this $200k goes towards (e.g The Salvo’s, St Vinneies, free lessons for the disabled etc.)is for please. Throwing a number out there is meaningless wihtout some detail. Thanks.

BTW: my wife is an occasional worker at CISAC.

its a combination of things.. we sponsor and assist a lot of sporting teams; ie:

Raiders
Raiderettes
Part of the consortium that helped bring Matt Giteau back to Brumbies
About 10 to 15 local sporting teams (Rugby League, Union, AFL, Soccer)
Camp Quality Escarpade
Diabetes Functions – major sponsor of one or 2 of their events per annum
Donations to fundraising events
Raffle prize donations
Major naming rights sponsor of Womens Soccer in the ACT
Free pool hire to Disability students via ACT Swimming
Discounted pool hire for Royal Life saving Society – ACT Public Schools Learn to Swim
RSCPA Annual Black Tie Fundraising Dinner sponsor
Kevin Wells, a mountain bike rider
104.7 SKYFIRE
etc, etc….

Harry
CISAC

Thanks Harry. Some good stuff in there – except providing help to the Raiders:)

Ooo – Oooooo!

I forgot – AND I have No Mobile Phone!!! Just a landline, and since I have no friends, I don’t waste money on phone calls.

Hells_Bells74 said :

You go barefoot? Naked?
Least now your kids can half keep up with you since they lost their shoes.

*tongue in cheek, I know about being poor*

Nah… I don’t go nukked and bearfut… I am still wearing my big sister’s hand-me-downs (no, really – I get to ferret through her cast-offs before I drop them off to my fave charity shop.

Oh, Jiiiiiimmmmeeee… I’m pining for your latest – aw, another treat ’em mean, keep ’em keen guy *sigh*

Hells_Bells746:02 pm 23 Jun 09

You go barefoot? Naked?
Least now your kids can half keep up with you since they lost their shoes.

*tongue in cheek, I know about being poor*

Someoneincanb – you are very generous! How kind… and I feel a bit ungrateful here, but I have already replaced the kids’ shoes, and since they now have a pair each, that is a generous sufficiency.

I should be more than pleased to see them dropped off at a charity, though – if you live inner south I would be honoured to do so?

Genie said :

el – damn you beat me to it by minutes…. Crankymum I don’t understand how if you are so poor you cant find up to $50 for new shoes, yet you can afford internet ??

Easy: I have no social life, I buy no cosmetics/shoes/clothes/necessities/hairproduct/haircuts/newspapers/magazines for myself, I do not drink/smoke/do drugs/gamble/rent videos, I have no credit card, I pay all my bills on time, I am a greenie and do not use unnecessary energy… and I bundle, and strictly monitor my downloads to stay under my monthly limit, because if I didn’t have internet, A) my kids would be deprived of an important educational resource, and B) I would go postal without being able to catch up on current affairs from my very own loungeroom.

And that is $50 per child, because I regard footwear as pretty important and a false economy to go cheapest available.

Oh, and jimjones… be still my beating heart, you are soooooooo my type of previous and unfortunately desperately unsuitable type of guy! *mwah*

Woody Mann-Caruso5:47 pm 23 Jun 09

Because poor people have to live in trailers with no electricity. Dial-up is ten bucks a month. Or maybe she has broadband for the kids, but that leaves room for next to nothing else in the budget. How nice none of you have ever had to live with an account balance of zero at the end of every fortnight.

Not that any of this has anything to do with whether CISAC’s lost property arrangements are adequate or even legal. But hey, keep playing the lady rather than the ball.

Oh and on another note.. HarryK if your still reading this thread.. perhaps you should spend some money training your staff on customer service. I came out to your pathetic little open weekend, and from the experience I had I never plan on returning. None of the staff members were willing to answer my questions about the gym. For example, I asked about the classes, did I need to sign up, when were they on etc. I got given a piece of paper. Thinking ok cool, its their open weekend things will get explained to me, maybe I’ll get spoken to about memberships.. Nope they just walked off.

Secondly, I thought while I was there I would inquire about adult learn to swim classes. Your frizzy haired staff member promptly told me everything I needed to know was on your website, and proceeded to serve the paying customer behind me. When I tried to get her attention again, as I have already looked over your website and wanted to talk to someone about it, I got handed yet ANOTHER flyer and had it repeated to me that class schedules and costs are on the website.

I would just like to point out that not everyone has access to the internet, (clearly I do – but not the point) I just didn’t realise how hard it would be for a staff member to explain things to me. When I make the effort to go to a gym/pool to make an enquiry. I don’t want to be sent back home to read all about it on the internet. (esp since I had sent off emails previously to clubswim that were never replied to)

el – damn you beat me to it by minutes…. Crankymum I don’t understand how if you are so poor you cant find up to $50 for new shoes, yet you can afford internet ??

Jim Jones said :

It might be wise to stop and think for a minute, however: perhaps if you weren’t so keen to blame all of life’s ills on other people you wouldn’t be on a forum complaining about the fact that you’re so poor you can’t afford to buy your children new shoes.

And the internet connection gets paid for?

someoneincanb5:15 pm 23 Jun 09

Crankymum,

Just because you are clearly needy and such a good sport, I would like to offer you (for free) some shoes for your boys. I have the following three pairs. If they are the right size and you would like them, please reply back here and transfer could be organised.

Size 12 black lace-up leather school shoes (excellent condition *never worn*, but do not have laces in them)
Size 12 sneakers (worn a few times but in good condition)
Size 2 black lace up sneakers (excellent condition *never worn*)

A second ago you were all gung-ho about “reinstating the hold for a week policy”.

Now that it’s been pointed out that the lost property is held for longer than this, you want it held for even longer.

And yet apparently you lost the shoes less than a week ago.

Here’s a tip: when you’re in a hole, it’s generally not a good idea to try and dig your way out.

Sadly, the stench of sour grapes on your breath leads me to believe that you’ll keep at it, even though everyone is thoroughly bored of your bitter, shrewish keening.

It might be wise to stop and think for a minute, however: perhaps if you weren’t so keen to blame all of life’s ills on other people you wouldn’t be on a forum complaining about the fact that you’re so poor you can’t afford to buy your children new shoes.

First: shoes were not on because it was not freezing cold, but relatively mild, and for the short scuttle to the car I chose to shorten Pfaffing-time by foregoing shoe-putting-on.

Second: that the charity are (understandably) not keen to empty the bins any more is not my point. If it is sooooooo hard for the management to hang onto patrons’ possessions for the legally required three months, then perhaps it would seem more reasonable for them to designate a shorter period of grace?

*snicker* how interesting that you think me illiterate. Unfortunately, flirting will get you nowhere, I have no time for romance…

CISAC have stated that the current contents of the lost property bins are over a month old.

I’m at a loss as to why you’d like them to shorten this period to a week.

Are you illiterate as well as horrendously poor?

someoneincanb4:45 pm 23 Jun 09

I’m actually wondering exactly how a responsible parent doesn’t notice the children are not wearing socks and shoes when they leave a swimming pool in the middle of winter in Canberra. Even when the children are complaining and carrying on a treat, I still notice if they are wearing socks and shoes in winter. Perhaps you took 2 pairs per child to the pool? In which case you are not that poor.

Actually, the aim of the angst is to re-instate the “hold for at least a week” policy, not an entirely unreasonable goal, really.

When you have to feed, clothe, and house two small boys on minimal income, this event WILL assume huge proportions.

Yes, I did leave the shoes there – but I also made the trek out there to try to find them, which I am sure your own parents, kiddies, would have done for you under similar circumstances at least once in your less-independant days. Ever left your violin on the bus? Your sports bag? Your pacifier?

As I mentioned before – to replace the shoes cost me half my week’s pension, and I made sure to buy discounted, end-of-season shoes. And it is not unreasonable, in the grownup world, to expect a minimal period of time in which to retrieve items left at a public swimming pool.

Now, if you are still confused by my shrill insistence – don’t read any more of these posts. It is just going to lead to a hell of a mid-life crisis, when you suddenly realise you have grown up to be just like that boring old lady carping on about incomprehensible, real-world issues…

Woody Mann-Caruso4:25 pm 23 Jun 09

Required to have a register of found items and keep for 3 months unless it is a perishable item.

So does CISAC have a register as required by law, or not?

Whatsup said :

burkes08 said :

Whatever……

I’ll see your “Whatever” and raise you “meh”

that is a full house of LOL

I don’t know about your mum Jim but my mum can hold onto things like this for years.

Jim Jones said :

Oh FFS crankymum – CISAC have responded and explained their lost property policy here. It seems entirely reasonable and puts your post into perspective.

I had sympathy for you when I was under the (mistaken) assumption that CISAC were just throwing all the lost property in the garbage bin. But they’re not.

At the moment you sound like nothing better than someone who can’t accept personal responsibility for their own mistakes and wheedles into attempts to shift blame to others.

Suck it up and stop harassing other people because you can’t accept the fact that you f$cked up. That would be a good lesson to teach your children, rather than the ‘whine mercilessly and blame others until you get what you want’ lesson you seem to be preaching at the moment.

+100

Jim Jones said :

Oh FFS crankymum – CISAC have responded and explained their lost property policy here. It seems entirely reasonable and puts your post into perspective.

I had sympathy for you when I was under the (mistaken) assumption that CISAC were just throwing all the lost property in the garbage bin. But they’re not.

At the moment you sound like nothing better than someone who can’t accept personal responsibility for their own mistakes and wheedles into attempts to shift blame to others.

Suck it up and stop harassing other people because you can’t accept the fact that you f$cked up. That would be a good lesson to teach your children, rather than the ‘whine mercilessly and blame others until you get what you want’ lesson you seem to be preaching at the moment.

don’t forget the “take them to court! all of them” argument. still amazed that HarryK responded.

burkes08 said :

Whatever……

I’ll see your “Whatever” and raise you “meh”

Oh FFS crankymum – CISAC have responded and explained their lost property policy here. It seems entirely reasonable and puts your post into perspective.

I had sympathy for you when I was under the (mistaken) assumption that CISAC were just throwing all the lost property in the garbage bin. But they’re not.

At the moment you sound like nothing better than someone who can’t accept personal responsibility for their own mistakes and wheedles into attempts to shift blame to others.

Suck it up and stop harassing other people because you can’t accept the fact that you f$cked up. That would be a good lesson to teach your children, rather than the ‘whine mercilessly and blame others until you get what you want’ lesson you seem to be preaching at the moment.

How long do you plan to remain cranky mum ?

crankymum said :

smeeagain said :

You should actually read the legislation that has a specific section relating to goods left at a swimming facility and what the requirements are.

Uncollected Goods Act 1996. Sections 9-12 http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/a/1996-86/current/pdf/1996-86.pdf

Required to have a register of found items and keep for 3 months unless it is a perishable item.

Why, Smee, did I not think of looking this up and posting this in the first place? (Thankyou for doing it for me, and sorry I was slack.)

Why – might it be:

Because I was irritated at the intransigent (and unhelpful) policy that bins (you have two bins out the back, duuuuuude, one is blue, the other is greeeeeeen) items temporarily mislaid.

Because the phone call and email were not returned – and my request to see the manager got me the same sentence, repeated (albeit politely and with good presence of mind by your staff member) to the point of nonsense.

Because when your income is as small as mine is, finding two pairs of cheap shoes that aren’t going to cripple your kids’ feet wipes out half the weekly grocery budget.

And finally – if other people regard this policy as unfair enough to complain to the Belconnen Police Dept, and also the Dept of Sport and Recreation – maybe a grownup should have a look at changing the procedure back to keeping lost items for a week BEFORE allowing the charity (should it be bothered) to remove your rubbish for you.

Whatever……

smeeagain said :

You should actually read the legislation that has a specific section relating to goods left at a swimming facility and what the requirements are.

Uncollected Goods Act 1996. Sections 9-12 http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/a/1996-86/current/pdf/1996-86.pdf

Required to have a register of found items and keep for 3 months unless it is a perishable item.

Why, Smee, did I not think of looking this up and posting this in the first place? (Thankyou for doing it for me, and sorry I was slack.)

Why – might it be:

Because I was irritated at the intransigent (and unhelpful) policy that bins (you have two bins out the back, duuuuuude, one is blue, the other is greeeeeeen) items temporarily mislaid.

Because the phone call and email were not returned – and my request to see the manager got me the same sentence, repeated (albeit politely and with good presence of mind by your staff member) to the point of nonsense.

Because when your income is as small as mine is, finding two pairs of cheap shoes that aren’t going to cripple your kids’ feet wipes out half the weekly grocery budget.

And finally – if other people regard this policy as unfair enough to complain to the Belconnen Police Dept, and also the Dept of Sport and Recreation – maybe a grownup should have a look at changing the procedure back to keeping lost items for a week BEFORE allowing the charity (should it be bothered) to remove your rubbish for you.

You should actually read the legislation that has a specific section relating to goods left at a swimming facility and what the requirements are.

Uncollected Goods Act 1996. Sections 9-12 http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/a/1996-86/current/pdf/1996-86.pdf

Required to have a register of found items and keep for 3 months unless it is a perishable item.

peterh said :

roccon said :

maybe a break in the fabric of space and time caused the lost items to shift into another parallel universe ??

prove me wrong.

you know, you spend far too much time on computers…

being single now, plenty of time.

roccon said :

maybe a break in the fabric of space and time caused the lost items to shift into another parallel universe ??

prove me wrong.

you know, you spend far too much time on computers…

maybe a break in the fabric of space and time caused the lost items to shift into another parallel universe ??

prove me wrong.

Hells_Bells7411:00 am 23 Jun 09

I thought they sounded as narky as each other! But one is in management and one isn’t.

I’ll certainly keep a better eye on things there but shit happens, you get over it.

after a while, that great term “meh” becomes your friend. lost the shoes? meh. what can you do? save and buy some more. little buggers lose them everywhere. Not the place that they lost them has any fault, just happens.

When your kids lose an item it can be really annoying. To accuse CISAC of “Theft” in your OP is a bit over the top. Stop and breathe, it might allow you to find the best solution. Shooting off missiles at CISAC will not get your kids shoes back, just raise your blood pressure and make you crankier.

And given the (in my opinion reasonable, but each to their own if you think it was ‘snarky’) responses from HarryK, Crankymum’s original post now looks entirely unreasonable.

Hells_Bells7410:44 am 23 Jun 09

Hehehe! Jessieduck, I think I concur.

I agree el but his tone was way off the mark. He could have been charming, he could have been polite, he could have just been to-the-point. Instead, he came off as sarcastic.

It’s not what he’s said or the policy, it’s all in the tone. Crankymum’s tone was cranky, HarryK’s tone was snarky.

jessieduck said :

HarryK on the other hand comes off as a bit of a twat. He could have posted the policy and did a general “very sorry the shoes didn’t show up but we are not responsible etc etc”- instead he has come on, used a fair bit of sarcasm and been a bit of an all round tosspot. Using phrases like mmmm and ummmm are hardly a professionaly way of communicating.

It’s worth remembering that his business has been accused of theft and threats of civil action have been made. His responses seemed reasonable to me – what else do you expect him to do in such a situation?

If I lose something I get intensely annoyed at *myself* for losing it, I don’t try and apportion blame to a business where I lost the item. Seems like common sense to me.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

While losing your kids shoes is inconvenient, it’s not the end of the world. If the shoes mean that much to you, keep an eye on them, or leave them in the car.

It’s winter.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:27 am 23 Jun 09

While losing your kids shoes is inconvenient, it’s not the end of the world. If the shoes mean that much to you, keep an eye on them, or leave them in the car.

jessieduck said :

chewy14 said :

And Crankymum is shut down again.

I think Crankymum has every right to be cranky but it’s one of those things isn’t it? I remember losing a pair of slippers at school camp and my mum was very cranky about it- mostly at me but also that they didn’t show up in the camps lost property or the schools lost property. Things get lost, mums get cranky, new shoes have to be bought even when money could be better spent on other things.

HarryK on the other hand comes off as a bit of a twat. He could have posted the policy and did a general “very sorry the shoes didn’t show up but we are not responsible etc etc”- instead he has come on, used a fair bit of sarcasm and been a bit of an all round tosspot. Using phrases like mmmm and ummmm are hardly a professionaly way of communicating.

jessieduck, remember, he did come on here to discuss the posts. how many of the other businesses that we rioters have gripes with bother to answer us on this forum? mmmm?

jessieduck said :

chewy14 said :

And Crankymum is shut down again.

I think Crankymum has every right to be cranky but it’s one of those things isn’t it? I remember losing a pair of slippers at school camp and my mum was very cranky about it- mostly at me but also that they didn’t show up in the camps lost property or the schools lost property. Things get lost, mums get cranky, new shoes have to be bought even when money could be better spent on other things.

HarryK on the other hand comes off as a bit of a twat. He could have posted the policy and did a general “very sorry the shoes didn’t show up but we are not responsible etc etc”- instead he has come on, used a fair bit of sarcasm and been a bit of an all round tosspot. Using phrases like mmmm and ummmm are hardly a professionaly way of communicating.

+1 that was my general vibe also.

chewy14 said :

And Crankymum is shut down again.

I think Crankymum has every right to be cranky but it’s one of those things isn’t it? I remember losing a pair of slippers at school camp and my mum was very cranky about it- mostly at me but also that they didn’t show up in the camps lost property or the schools lost property. Things get lost, mums get cranky, new shoes have to be bought even when money could be better spent on other things.

HarryK on the other hand comes off as a bit of a twat. He could have posted the policy and did a general “very sorry the shoes didn’t show up but we are not responsible etc etc”- instead he has come on, used a fair bit of sarcasm and been a bit of an all round tosspot. Using phrases like mmmm and ummmm are hardly a professionaly way of communicating.

Jim Jones said :

HarryK, thanks for explaining the (entirely reasonable) lost property policy at CISAC.

If I could offer a quick piece of advice: you’ve done an admirable job of defending the centre and explaining the public good that it is involved in, but it might be time to stop posting and let this thread die a respectable death.

thanks Jim..

yes, that is my intention, I just wished to respond to todays comments.

Thank you

Harry
CISAC

HarryK, thanks for explaining the (entirely reasonable) lost property policy at CISAC.

If I could offer a quick piece of advice: you’ve done an admirable job of defending the centre and explaining the public good that it is involved in, but it might be time to stop posting and let this thread die a respectable death.

And Crankymum is shut down again.

BerraBoy68 said :

HarryK said :

for the record, CISAC, Club Lime and Club Pink spend in excess of $200k a year ‘supporting the community’.

Harry, can you advise what this $200k goes towards (e.g The Salvo’s, St Vinneies, free lessons for the disabled etc.)is for please. Throwing a number out there is meaningless wihtout some detail. Thanks.

BTW: my wife is an occasional worker at CISAC.

its a combination of things.. we sponsor and assist a lot of sporting teams; ie:

Raiders
Raiderettes
Part of the consortium that helped bring Matt Giteau back to Brumbies
About 10 to 15 local sporting teams (Rugby League, Union, AFL, Soccer)
Camp Quality Escarpade
Diabetes Functions – major sponsor of one or 2 of their events per annum
Donations to fundraising events
Raffle prize donations
Major naming rights sponsor of Womens Soccer in the ACT
Free pool hire to Disability students via ACT Swimming
Discounted pool hire for Royal Life saving Society – ACT Public Schools Learn to Swim
RSCPA Annual Black Tie Fundraising Dinner sponsor
Kevin Wells, a mountain bike rider
104.7 SKYFIRE
etc, etc….

Harry
CISAC

crankymum said :

Good morning, kiddies.

Oh, and you grownups, too – you know who you are!

Hi “Harry”! Had you had a protocol in place where:
A) requests to see the manager resulted in a senior staff member coming to the front desk
B) you returned phone calls that specifically stated they were to complain about the ‘lost property policy’
C) you answered emails that were addressed to you
well, then – I would have been a somewhat more satisfied customer, wouldn’t I?

A)There are several senior managers on duty at any one time, On weekends we have a duty manager that is accessible.

B)These will filter through to our Centre Manager. Unfortunately he doesn’t work on weekends to respond same day.

C)Were was the email sent? to my email address? to the centre mailbox? to our Centre Manager? I have no record of receiving any emails regarding loss property in the last week?

As it is: you have graduated from your childcare facility summa cum laude in having no idea in how to provide customer satisfaction! Congratulations!

mmmm – are you being realistic? you want our help, you want us to consider something, and then you turn around with such statements?

Yes, I did beetle around to the cleaners’ area – they have an area out the back – as do most facilities – where the equipment necessary is stored. It is quite an extensive area – I looked in all the rooms there, under shelves, etc (without touching anything, and under cleaner supervision) just to satisfy myself that my kids’ shoes had not been placed momentarily on a convenient surface and accidentally forgotten, before they were binned.

I’m not sure if you read my previous posts.. “we do not bin your items or throw them away”. If your items were not in the designated area then they were obviously stolen for which i apologise, but for which I can do nothing about.

And – just because your big green garbage bin has a sign on it saying there are lost items in it, doesn’t give you any more credibility. And allowing the charity to come and pick up the stuff occasionally is an AWESOME way to avoid paying tip fees! Donating to charity involves a somewhat more proactive approach, sweetie.

Umm.. the bin is actually Blue.. did you look in the right spot?

For the record, your signs, which were pointed out to me when I returned to the pool, are too small, have lettering that is too small to attract notice, and have waaaay to much info on them to be easily understood.

We will review the signage, but with 20-25k worth of people entering a week, i think your the 2nd or 3rd person to complain about not seeing the sign, however we do like to help everyone, so we will review the signage.

By responding on this public forum, you are acknowledging that you have recieved my complaint.

I don’t see feedback forms unless they need to be brought to my attention, they are dealt with by the centre manager. So sorry I have not seen your form/complaint, but I will ask to see if if you want me too.

By responding in a public forum does in no way acknowledge that i have seen your feedback form btw, the link between the two does not exist.

The fact remains you ‘accidentally’ left your kids shoes at CISAC. If they were still here at the end of the day, the night cleaning staff would have collected them and put them in the appropriate ‘bin’. When you came to check, they were not in the bin – which means they were picked up by someone else. I am sorry, but I cannot do anymore to help you in this instance.

What are you going to do now?

There is nothing more I can do apart from review the signage so that people who use the facility understand these policies. We will not be held responsible for personal items you bring into the facility that are lost.

Thanks.

Harry
CISAC

amazing. HarryK comes on, defends CISAC, and the actions of the staff, and crankymum still goes for the jugular. Imagine if this was the westfield chain, and your child has dropped his teddy bear. frantic calls to the concierge to find said bear, but it was not recovered. this was definitely binned. not in LP, but in the bin. should we take the matter to small claims? no. we got my son a new bear. the old one was his since birth, but after we have lost shoes and socks at westfield woden, and never expected to recover them, we never expected to see the bear again, either.

I get upset at the loss of a bear, shoes, socks and jumpers when out and about, but when did it become an option to run to court?

we just replace the lost items. not straight away, we cannot afford new shoes every week, but over time, we have new shoes, new socks, new jumpers and a new loved bear.

I-filed said :

I would test them in the Small Claims Court. I think they had a duty of care not to destroy your property and take reasonable steps – the ‘accepted community standard’ is definitely to have a lost property box for items worth say $10 or more, and hold them (not in a secure place, but just in a box) for say a month. Do you have anything on the record?

Complete and utter bollocks. I’d imagine Cisac (like most swimming pools) would have a sign to the effect of ‘Cisac take no responsibility for valuables left unattended or not in lockers’.

Perhaps, Crankymum, you could take responsibility for losing the shoes and not try and blame the business where you (according to your story) left them? Shoes are disgusting dirty things at the best of times. The accusation of ‘theft’ is quite appalling too.

crankymum said :

Good morning, kiddies.

Oh, and you grownups, too – you know who you are!

Hi “Harry”! Had you had a protocol in place where:
A) requests to see the manager resulted in a senior staff member coming to the front desk
B) you returned phone calls that specifically stated they were to complain about the ‘lost property policy’
C) you answered emails that were addressed to you
well, then – I would have been a somewhat more satisfied customer, wouldn’t I?

As it is: you have graduated from your childcare facility summa cum laude in having no idea in how to provide customer satisfaction! Congratulations!

Yes, I did beetle around to the cleaners’ area – they have an area out the back – as do most facilities – where the equipment necessary is stored. It is quite an extensive area – I looked in all the rooms there, under shelves, etc (without touching anything, and under cleaner supervision) just to satisfy myself that my kids’ shoes had not been placed momentarily on a convenient surface and accidentally forgotten, before they were binned.

And – just because your big green garbage bin has a sign on it saying there are lost items in it, doesn’t give you any more credibility. And allowing the charity to come and pick up the stuff occasionally is an AWESOME way to avoid paying tip fees! Donating to charity involves a somewhat more proactive approach, sweetie.

For the record, your signs, which were pointed out to me when I returned to the pool, are too small, have lettering that is too small to attract notice, and have waaaay to much info on them to be easily understood.

You totally need a refresher course on interpersonal communication. One on good personnel management wouldn’t go astray, either.

By responding on this public forum, you are acknowledging that you have recieved my complaint.

What are you going to do now?

HAHAHA HarryK pwned you. If I were you I’d slink away never to return.

HarryK your posts in this thread were awesome mate. I’m coming out to CISAC in the near future specifically because of your awesomeness.

Madame Workalot9:02 am 23 Jun 09

I-filed said :

I would test them in the Small Claims Court. I think they had a duty of care not to destroy your property and take reasonable steps – the ‘accepted community standard’ is definitely to have a lost property box for items worth say $10 or more, and hold them (not in a secure place, but just in a box) for say a month. Do you have anything on the record?

There is no duty of care here. CISAC have not accepted responsibility for these items so how could they be held responsible for what happens to them? The duty of care for the items rests with the party who took them to the pool (crankymum).

The signs will be judged sufficient notice of the conditions of entry (which includes the lost property policy) – it is only CISAC’s responsibility to ensure the policy is clearly displayed (on the front doors and in various locations around the facility), they have no responsibility for ensuring patrons are actually aware of the policy.

Just because there’s an ‘accepted community standard’ does not mean that there is a legal obligation.

Yes it sucks crankymum, but unfortunately that’s the way it is. If in fact you attempted to make a complaint and found you were unable to, that would be worth pursuing. I think you’re wasting your time trying to change the lost property policy though. If you don’t like the policy, don’t use the facility. If you can’t afford to lose property should you inadvertently leave it behind, ensure you are aware of the policy and make an informed decision before using any facility.

Crankymum,
These must have been some gold plated shoes.

HarryK said :

for the record, CISAC, Club Lime and Club Pink spend in excess of $200k a year ‘supporting the community’.

Harry, can you advise what this $200k goes towards (e.g The Salvo’s, St Vinneies, free lessons for the disabled etc.)is for please. Throwing a number out there is meaningless wihtout some detail. Thanks.

BTW: my wife is an occasional worker at CISAC.

Good morning, kiddies.

Oh, and you grownups, too – you know who you are!

Hi “Harry”! Had you had a protocol in place where:
A) requests to see the manager resulted in a senior staff member coming to the front desk
B) you returned phone calls that specifically stated they were to complain about the ‘lost property policy’
C) you answered emails that were addressed to you
well, then – I would have been a somewhat more satisfied customer, wouldn’t I?

As it is: you have graduated from your childcare facility summa cum laude in having no idea in how to provide customer satisfaction! Congratulations!

Yes, I did beetle around to the cleaners’ area – they have an area out the back – as do most facilities – where the equipment necessary is stored. It is quite an extensive area – I looked in all the rooms there, under shelves, etc (without touching anything, and under cleaner supervision) just to satisfy myself that my kids’ shoes had not been placed momentarily on a convenient surface and accidentally forgotten, before they were binned.

And – just because your big green garbage bin has a sign on it saying there are lost items in it, doesn’t give you any more credibility. And allowing the charity to come and pick up the stuff occasionally is an AWESOME way to avoid paying tip fees! Donating to charity involves a somewhat more proactive approach, sweetie.

For the record, your signs, which were pointed out to me when I returned to the pool, are too small, have lettering that is too small to attract notice, and have waaaay to much info on them to be easily understood.

You totally need a refresher course on interpersonal communication. One on good personnel management wouldn’t go astray, either.

By responding on this public forum, you are acknowledging that you have recieved my complaint.

What are you going to do now?

So many violins playing…..

Woody Mann-Caruso11:00 pm 22 Jun 09

I don’t think they destroyed the shoes – they either didn’t find them in the first place, or did find them but they’ve since been lost again.

I would test them in the Small Claims Court. I think they had a duty of care not to destroy your property and take reasonable steps – the ‘accepted community standard’ is definitely to have a lost property box for items worth say $10 or more, and hold them (not in a secure place, but just in a box) for say a month. Do you have anything on the record?

Many years ago, I was at the main block of the ski resort I worked for in the US, helping to direct several busloads of people to get their rentals before they hit the snow. I noticed several of teh “park rangers” (they built and maintained the terrain parks) come in, and they went to an admin counter and asked something, and the girl nodded and hoiked out several boxes… of lost property. The Park guys then proceeded to try on various sunglasses until they found some they liked, and then off they happily went.

In the meantime, maybe the OP could set the kids to work grinding corn to pay for new shoes.

el said :

I dunno deezagood – sometimes the customer, as angry as they wish to be (including threats of civil action!!1!!!one!!WT!FBBQ!), is wrong.

Ahhh El, that is why it is far better to place oil on troubled waters (of course customers can be quite wrong, but it is how they are managed/soothed/appeased that makes all of the difference!). For example, Harry’s statement ‘i think you should get your facts straight before making such public comments’ (sic) could have been phrased ‘I do hope that next time you have a complaint about our centre that you feel comfortable speaking to me about this issue, rather than posting on this site. In this way I can personally explain the rationale behind our policy decisions’. It isn’t that hard.

Woody Mann-Caruso10:05 pm 22 Jun 09

There would be thousands of people going through the place every week, imagine if 10% or even just 5% left something behind?

Harry gave the stats. Sometimes, up to 20 people a week came looking for stuff – so maybe three a day. That doesn’t sound like much of a burden for a high traffic customer service environment if you’ve got a half-decent lost property arrangement rather than a general dumping ground somewhere out the back that puts something lost today with something lost six weeks ago and no way to track it.

Here are a couple of ideas:

Get yourself a “found this week” bin. At the end of the week, throw it in the big bin, or even in the trash. Nobody reasonable can begrudge you chucking it after a week – if they want it and it’s important, they’ll call before then. That way, people only have to search a small bin, not a number of large bins, and you’re not hanging on to stuff forever.

Then, ask people to describe what they lost. Don’t let them take anything they didn’t ask for up front.

If you were especially clever, you could have a simple list for the week: item found, date item found (eg 2 pairs kids sneakers, 22/6/09). When people call, you can look at the list, and say “yes, that was handed in, it’s in the ‘this week’ bin” or “no, nothing like that has been found, sorry.” Having the date also stops ‘shoppers’: “I lost a Rolex watch.” “When?” “Erm…I dunno.” “Nice try.”

This would solve pretty much all of your problems. Would you rather have staff spend thirty seconds recording an item, creating a paper trail that covers your butt and keeping the pile to a minimum, or have them spend up to an hour helping people sort through a mountain of stuff so they can steal whatever catches their eye?

“for the record, CISAC, Club Lime and Club Pink spend in excess of $200k a year ’supporting the community’.”

well if you have soooo much money to splash around how about buying two poor kids some shoes. you threw there olds ones out.

Crankymum said – Certainly I would like to think that if their complaints form has to include a warning that “abusive feedback may not be responded to” then surely the easier course would be to re-designate a holding area for lost property, instead of inflicting outraged customers on the usually young staff at the counter?

HarryK responded to the feedback.

Two sides to every story.

sepi said :

If the signs say ‘lost property will be binned by our cleaners’ I would take that to mean thrown out in the rubbish straight away. Maybe the wording needs some work.

true.. i’ll have someone check the wording tomorrow (i can’t remember what it says exactly).

Harry
CISAC

deezagood said :

Aaaah Harry; what a shame you felt compelled to post three times, as your first explanation would probably have sufficed (perhaps with a slightly less cranky tone). Now you just sound angry and bitter yourself. Remember the service adage – ‘the customer is always right’ (especially in a public forum) and businesses are often judged on the way in which their staff communicate with their customers. Would it have killed you to use a more pleasant tone, perhaps apologise for any inconvenience, simply explain the rationale behind the extant policy and attempt to pacify rather than inflame further?

Service in Canberra – yeesh.

i’m sorry if you found my responses cranky…. they were not meant to be…..

my aim was not to further inflaim, my aim was to explain the situation and policy from our perspective, not just one side of the story as they say.

Harry
CISAC

I dunno deezagood – sometimes the customer, as angry as they wish to be (including threats of civil action!!1!!!one!!WT!FBBQ!), is wrong.

Felix the Cat said :

One can only imagine that lost property would pile up significantly over a period of time and could take up a lot of space and time to hold and to administer, even over a week. There would be thousands of people going through the place every week, imagine if 10% or even just 5% left something behind?

between 20,000 and 25,000 people visit CISAC per week….

Harry

If the signs say ‘lost property will be binned by our cleaners’ I would take that to mean thrown out in the rubbish straight away. Maybe the wording needs some work.

Aaaah Harry; what a shame you felt compelled to post three times, as your first explanation would probably have sufficed (perhaps with a slightly less cranky tone). Now you just sound angry and bitter yourself. Remember the service adage – ‘the customer is always right’ (especially in a public forum) and businesses are often judged on the way in which their staff communicate with their customers. Would it have killed you to use a more pleasant tone, perhaps apologise for any inconvenience, simply explain the rationale behind the extant policy and attempt to pacify rather than inflame further?

Service in Canberra – yeesh.

Felix the Cat9:32 pm 22 Jun 09

HarryK said :

for the record, CISAC, Club Lime and Club Pink spend in excess of $200k a year ‘supporting the community’.

We are under no obligation to do this, but provide such sponsorships, donations, and other incentives/benefits etc as a good corporate citizen.

I’d like to see what other similar local businesses provide that level of ‘support’.

Harry
CISAC

*cough* tax deduction

Be interesting to see if ‘crankymum’ actually returns to the site now that a more reasoned reply has been posted from the (now heavily bad-mouthed) business in question. P’raps take a bit more responsibility for your own actions?

PS – What size was the Trent Nathan shirt?

Felix the Cat9:30 pm 22 Jun 09

One can only imagine that lost property would pile up significantly over a period of time and could take up a lot of space and time to hold and to administer, even over a week. There would be thousands of people going through the place every week, imagine if 10% or even just 5% left something behind?

They probably did have a LP service but there might of been a mountain of unclaimed stuff, including mention dirty/smelly/unhygenic clothing/footwear and so as their core business is to provide sport and fitness facilities and not stockpile and administer lost property they decided to can it. Seems harsh I know but that’s business. It’s about making money and if LP wasn’t making money then there is no point in having it.

el said :

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

What’s the acceptable amount of time to hold a pair of dirty old shoes meant to be, anyway?

that’s exactly right, what is the acceptable time?

we find that items that are ‘lost’ are generally discovered lost very quickly by their owners (as in crankymums case the next day), however even that wasn’t soon enough as the items were not found.

Harry
CISAC

Addison said :

i think you should ring up the manager of this place and blast them and make them pay for new shoes for your kids. this is supposed to be a facility that supports the community

for the record, CISAC, Club Lime and Club Pink spend in excess of $200k a year ‘supporting the community’.

We are under no obligation to do this, but provide such sponsorships, donations, and other incentives/benefits etc as a good corporate citizen.

I’d like to see what other similar local businesses provide that level of ‘support’.

Harry
CISAC

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

What’s the acceptable amount of time to hold a pair of dirty old shoes meant to be, anyway?

crankymum said :

And: the management at the CISAC are throwing out MOBILITY AIDS – there are rehab devices in the bin, too. How crap is that for a “not our problem” attitude?

i think you should get your facts straight before making such public comments.

We do not throw ‘out’ any items. Anything unclaimed we give the charities.

Harry
CISAC

Crankymum, thanks for the feedback provided above. I think its important to set some things straight.

When I rang on Sunday morning to find out if the shoes had been located,
the helpful girl on the phone went and checked the area I had left them –
and even looked in the change rooms for me!

I’m glad that the staff were atleast semi helpful to you.

No luck; but I was assured that lost property was kept in the cleaner’s area for a week or two before being donated to charity.

this is correct, except that the length of time would depend on the quantity of items. i know for a fact that the current ‘bins’ of lost property are over a month old (and maybe closer to 2 months)

Um – no. Actually, CISAC management has had a new policy for the last couple of months or so. ANY item left by the public that is not jewellry or a watch is binned by the cleaners when found. No Exceptions.

the new policy has been in force for atleast 6 months. The policy is displayed at the front doors, and at the pool counter in front of each point of sale.

The ‘binned’ bit needs to also be clarified. We ‘bin’ the items in a ‘bin’ at the back of the facility, we don’t bin them in the rubbish, there is obviously a big difference. the ‘bins’ we use are holding bins to see if anybody will come and collect the items.

So my trip out to CISAC this morning has left me furious at the negligent,
dishonest policy that leaves me trying to work out how to buy shoes for the kids;

i’m unsure why you call it a ‘dishonest policy’ when it is quite clearly displayed in multiple places before you enter the facility. We are very upfront about the policy.

I insisted, by the way, on inspecting the cleaner’s area for my sons’ shoes.

this is the area which you say doesn’t exist..

Of more concern, and certainly more disturbing, I was appalled to see rehabilitive aids as well as kids’ kick-boards in the bin – how low can you get, chucking out items used by the less able in the community!

i’m unsure what you would expect us to do with kick-boards and rehabilitive aids that we do not know who they belong too, and secondly have not been claimed? In all seriously what would you expect us to do? we do acknowledge that these items are useful, but without contact details, or people claiming them, we can’t really do anything.

Now, from enquiries I have made, whilst the management are not open to charges of Theft By Finding, they may be liable to civil action.

Your suggesting launching civil action for items you lost?

What you need to realise is that a lot of items get ‘stolen’ after they are ‘lost’, that is just the nature of things. It is not our staff that throw them out, and our staff cannot be responsible for items ‘lost’.

With our previous policy, we had two full rooms full of items, and we did not donate the items to charity. what would happen is that people would ask to see the lost property, and spend in excess of 1 hour looking for items (because there was so much of it), because of the location, we would also need to have staff supervise this which is a cost in itself, on top of the room costs. Imagine 20 people a week doing this (which was not uncommon). Would other patrons be prepared to have prices increase to cover the cost of staff having to supervise people looking through the two rooms of lost property? I don’t think so.

In the end we found that most people could not find what they had lost (albeit some did), but the majority did not. We also found that people would attempt to access the room to try and gain ‘free items’ (ie: i lost a pair of shorts, and while going through the items would say “oh i lost this too a few weeks ago”) – this would again put us in an awkward situation.

If your items are lost and cleaning or other staff locate them we store them in the ‘bins’ near the cleaners rooms. I’m sorry this policy does not suit you, but its the best we can come up with at the present time. The length of time they stay in ‘the bins’ is dependent upon how much stuff there is there.

Harry
CISAC

eh_steve said :

Have you contacted Graham Downie at The Canberra Times aswell?

+1

Have you contacted Graham Downie at The Canberra Times aswell?

It irritates me no end that a growing number of businesses seem to resent their customers, CISAC being one of them.

My last sentence doesn’t make sense. It should say that not withstanding the problem with wet and dirty clothing, I believe the lost property should be keep for some time.

sexynotsmart said :

I’d be spewing. Not hard to have a box of lost property.

+1

Well it might be harder if the left items are wet, like towels, swimming costumes and perhaps even sneakers and socks. Not withstanding that I too don’t believe this lost property should not be chucked immediately.

sexynotsmart7:25 pm 22 Jun 09

I’d be spewing. Not hard to have a box of lost property.

+1

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

So they are negligent for not keeping the shoes that you forgot at the pool?

Sorry Crankymum, i think the blame lies a little closer to home.

You obviously don’t have kids – this sort of thing happens. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a public facility such as CISAC to have a reasonable ‘lost and found’ operating; it’s not like it’s hard work or costs them anything.

Throwing everything out instantly seems a pretty severe way to go about things. I wonder why they’re doing it. It’s possible there could be a good reason for it, but I can’t think of one.

+1. Kids leave stuff behind which parents overlook while trying to shepherd crying, tired, hungry kids out of a venue while also juggling, clothing, swimming aids and toys. I don;t think it’s too much to ask that things left behind by accident just get put aside for a few days. I know that Lakeside Leisure has a decent lost property process.

Lets just blame it on that damned ‘northside’ mentality. Its more fun that way.

Yes – I should have paid more attention to ALL of my possessions, rather than attempting to console my tired-to-tears littlest, juggle two bags of wet clothing, find my keys, and answer the older boy’s constant stream of “can I have food NOW” queries.

Point is – in what universe is it so unreasonable to ask that items be held for a week?

The cleaners at the pool would like to see that system re-instated, by the way; they are now receiving a lot of complaints from upset patrons – and I can guess some would be VERY cranky – and had no problems allotting space to the lost property.

And: the management at the CISAC are throwing out MOBILITY AIDS – there are rehab devices in the bin, too. How crap is that for a “not our problem” attitude?

Wow you can breastfeed at CISACs?? I always get a burger from the cafe…..

This is a bizarre policy.

Even if they just threw everything into a box and let people rifle thru it that would be better than just binning stuff.

Super lazy, and mean as well.

This is the place that people had to sue for the right to breastfeed at tho, so I’m not that surprised.

sorry – necessarily

What makes jewellery or a watch necessrily more valuable than a pair of shoes – or is it that they are smaller and as #21 barking toad suggests easier to fence.

I’m with you crankymum

Woody Mann-Caruso4:54 pm 22 Jun 09

(Oh, and that really, really sucks, crankymum.)

barking toad4:53 pm 22 Jun 09

#19 Astro, jewellery is easier to fence

Woody Mann-Caruso4:53 pm 22 Jun 09

The fact that this facility is private property probably excludes them from the charges you suggest.

Awesome. My mate left his new Asus notebook here at my house by mistake, so I guess I can just chuck it, right? Apparently, I’m not under any legal or moral obligation to keep it safe on my ‘private property’.

Or any way of actually proving who owns what in the lost property.

People can usually describe their lost goods in pretty fine detail. It’s not like you can stroll in and say “I lost a watch” and they let you pick the one you like from a pile.

me too, thumper et al. they do have a lost property box; only there is an entirely arbitrary rationale as to what goes in it, or not. why do they not toss out jewelry? and why are watches not jewelry – since when? what about cash? does this get binned too?

very dodgy and a letter to the trade practices might have them grovelling… can’t hurt.

toriness said :

paperboy said :

Aren’t we forgetting one possibility here.

They were probably stolen.

well exactly. and maybe this is why CISAC has a policy of no lost property so it doesn’t become responsible by proxy for people leaving their stuff around unattended or forgetting it and leaving it behind.

Or any way of actually proving who owns what in the lost property.

I’d be livid. Very easy for busy parents/carers to leave property behind – I can’t believe they just throw everything out, without even allowing a period of grace to reclaim lost items. I think this is appalling.

paperboy said :

Aren’t we forgetting one possibility here.

They were probably stolen.

well exactly. and maybe this is why CISAC has a policy of no lost property so it doesn’t become responsible by proxy for people leaving their stuff around unattended or forgetting it and leaving it behind.

Professionally? No. Legally? Probably.

(are there any signs up in the changerooms informing users of this policy?)

i think you should ring up the manager of this place and blast them and make them pay for new shoes for your kids. this is supposed to be a facility that supports the community

Aren’t we forgetting one possibility here.

They were probably stolen.

Oh – and it could be paid for in one of two ways – 1) increase entry fees (unfair to those who are careful with their property), or (2) user pays – you pay a fee to extract your goods.

This is exactly what I am talking about. I’m pretty sure when I was a kid the local pool would have had a lost property bin. Since at no time do I ever remember prices being dropped at the cessation of this service, we are already paying for it!

The fact that this facility is private property probably excludes them from the charges you suggest.

But I agree wholeheartedly that it is a bit dodgy that a facility that deals with the volume of patrons they do, and probably the level of lost property can’t hold things for at least a few days before tossing it. Since ipods, phones and wallets don’t fit in the “jewellry or a watch” category they toss them too? Defiantly crap service. While I understand that it would be just another thing to add to the cost of doing business, well, that is the cost of doing business.

chewy14 said :

So they are negligent for not keeping the shoes that you forgot at the pool?

Sorry Crankymum, i think the blame lies a little closer to home.

You obviously don’t have kids – this sort of thing happens. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a public facility such as CISAC to have a reasonable ‘lost and found’ operating; it’s not like it’s hard work or costs them anything.

Throwing everything out instantly seems a pretty severe way to go about things. I wonder why they’re doing it. It’s possible there could be a good reason for it, but I can’t think of one.

someoneincanb3:16 pm 22 Jun 09

If this is “Theft by finding” is it possible you are guilty of “littering by leaving”?

James-T-Kirk3:15 pm 22 Jun 09

Actually, thinking about it a bit more – if it is lawfull for a business to throw out discarded goods, I wonder if a legitimate business could be made collecting all lost items, and re-selling them.

James-T-Kirk3:14 pm 22 Jun 09

This is exactly what our community needs in the time of a economic slowdown.

They should employ somebody to collect all goods, rent some storage from themselves, purchase a cataloguing system – lets make it web based – Implement some way of proving that the goods were yours, and everybody would be happy.

Wow – web based means that you wouldn’t have to ring them, the goods would be visible online.

Oh – and it could be paid for in one of two ways – 1) increase entry fees (unfair to those who are careful with their property), or (2) user pays – you pay a fee to extract your goods.

Cool

So they are negligent for not keeping the shoes that you forgot at the pool?

Sorry Crankymum, i think the blame lies a little closer to home.

I am sorry that you lost your kids shoes. But I don’t understand how this is a “dishonest policy”?

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:51 pm 22 Jun 09

Thanks for the heads up, it will save me from going shopping. Any shirts in 44 long sleeve in the bins?

Fairly certain that the management didn’t decide to do this lightly, there must be some reason for the decision.

Seems pretty typical of an organisation that is profit-, rather than customer-, focussed.

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