15 September 2009

Canberrans can't drive - episode 117

| maps00454
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Hi new to the RiotACT, now not a cranky person at all but had an interesting woman today coming down Adelaide Ave.

As this woman knows so well and stated at the lights to the hospital for me in a heated exchange “IT’S MY RIGHT TO TRAVEL IN THE RIGHT LANE” as she had done all the way from the lodge. This is a 35-50 yr old woman and I’m being quite considerate saying the start age of 35, would you not think from all the publicity surrounding the ever changing road rules and general anger from other motorist’s from people who can’t understand “KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING IN AN 80 KPH ZONE DUAL CARRIAGE LANES”.

I only wish this woman had enough sense to keep herself informed of current road rules. I must say not being from the ACT and traveling quite extensively in Australia it seems many long time residents of Canberra believe this form of disregard of road rules to be a natural born right. Guess what it’s not.
If you see her rego number can’t say it all except that it’s a little white 2 door hatch with “yes” as the first letters of the plate give her a toot if she still hasn’t learned!!!!!!

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welcome to Canberra …home of the ignoramus middle aged women

I frankly find it annoying when people lack common courtesy and their argument is that they are legally allowed to be discourteous. I may be legally allowed to call someone a C-word but that doesn’t make it the right thing to do. If it isn’t the right thing to do then it’s the wrong thing to do. So therefore it was the wrong thing to do. Pretty obvious when applying common sense or common courtesy as others have said.

Somethings never change…..

The-Riotact will be missed.

Ryano said :

Only in Canberra would an item like this be brought down to the letter of the law.

If someone was behind me, and I was going below the speed limit in the right-hand lane, I’d move left. He/she might be in a hurry, have kids alone, need to go to hospital, etc.

It’s common courtesy, not to mention common sense.

At least someone here has a clue. +1

Puh-lease. Simply a matter of common courtesy. I get frustrated with people all the time who hang in the right lane going considerably slower than the designated speed limit. Behind me there will be a long line of other frustrated drivers. In the left lane, banked up traffic. Much (in my view) of the traffic hassles in Canberra could be avoided if 1) people stayed in the left lane unless overtaking and 2)if Canberra drivers weren’t such nervous drivers.

Only in Canberra would an item like this be brought down to the letter of the law.

If someone was behind me, and I was going below the speed limit in the right-hand lane, I’d move left. He/she might be in a hurry, have kids alone, need to go to hospital, etc.

It’s common courtesy, not to mention common sense.

I’m of the opinion of a few others here, I’ll keep to the right hand lane where legally allowed to do so if I’m going to be turning right soon. Especially when busy because some people have shown that they’re not courteous enough to allow me to merge into the right hand lane from the left when my turn off is coming up. I’m also willing to bet that the people responsible for behaviour like that are people like the Speedy Gonzales OP who would probably laugh off another driver’s attempts to get from A to B if it interferes with his big headed “must speed” attitude.

Too much road rage from people. Perhaps we should have mandatory anger tests with licensing. Those who show too much anger aren’t eligible for a licence. Raging will only make some people more cautious and uncertain. If you’re cautious or uncertain on a road, the first thing you do is reduce your speed.

berra j – the same folk what teach folk to indicate left when they merge when two lanes merge into one with a ‘lane one form’ sign painted on… crazy in the brain.

usually same drivers who didn’t indicate when they actually turned onto the road or changed lanes across the unbroken lane line a bit before it… or the ones who turn right from the right lane of a two lane road into the far left lane of the two lane road into which they are turning [the roundabout near the war memorial, with its unbroken lane line at the the top of anzac is a classic example] or drive through ‘stop’ signs just to get into a gap they’d otherwise miss – aww diddums… ; )

Special G said :

Berra J – read the road rules – technically correct.

BerraJ said :

And can I just ask WHO THE HELL IS TEACHING DRIVERS TO INDICATE RIGHT WHEN GOING STRAIGHT ON A ROUNDABOUT!! I have seen it and almost crashed because of it at least a dozen times.

IIRC (this was in NSW not sure if ACT was the same) when the rule to indicate off the roundabout came into effect it did have a clause about indicating to the right. This lasted about 4-5 weeks then the rule was revised to ‘only indicate off the roundabout’ probably due to the number of fenderbenders the confusion caused.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

swissbignose said :

Are you sure about that, Special G?

One is supposed to indicate *left* when exiting a roundabout (including going straight), but I’ve never heard of indicating right to go straight.

I see people doing it and still haven’t worked out where they got the idea that it’s necessary.
 

Special G said :

Berra J – read the road rules – technically correct.

BerraJ said :

And can I just ask WHO THE HELL IS TEACHING DRIVERS TO INDICATE RIGHT WHEN GOING STRAIGHT ON A ROUNDABOUT!! I have seen it and almost crashed because of it at least a dozen times.

From the Australian Road Rules:

113 Giving a right change of direction signal when entering a roundabout
(1) This rule applies to a driver entering a roundabout if the driver is to leave the roundabout more than halfway around it.

From the ACT Road Rules Handbook:

In simple terms: When approaching a multi-lane roundabout with the intention of continuing straight ahead, approach in either the left or right hand lane (Example 2 refers) and operate the left hand indicator after entering the roundabout and continue to indicate throughout the turn.

So, what “road rules” are you reading?

I too would like to know what ‘road rules’ Special G is reading.

Thoroughly Smashed10:02 am 17 Sep 09

swissbignose said :

Are you sure about that, Special G?

One is supposed to indicate *left* when exiting a roundabout (including going straight), but I’ve never heard of indicating right to go straight.

I see people doing it and still haven’t worked out where they got the idea that it’s necessary.
 

Special G said :

Berra J – read the road rules – technically correct.

BerraJ said :

And can I just ask WHO THE HELL IS TEACHING DRIVERS TO INDICATE RIGHT WHEN GOING STRAIGHT ON A ROUNDABOUT!! I have seen it and almost crashed because of it at least a dozen times.

From the Australian Road Rules:

113 Giving a right change of direction signal when entering a roundabout
(1) This rule applies to a driver entering a roundabout if the driver is to leave the roundabout more than halfway around it.

From the ACT Road Rules Handbook:

In simple terms: When approaching a multi-lane roundabout with the intention of continuing straight ahead, approach in either the left or right hand lane (Example 2 refers) and operate the left hand indicator after entering the roundabout and continue to indicate throughout the turn.

So, what “road rules” are you reading?

swissbignose said :

Are you sure about that, Special G?

One is supposed to indicate *left* when exiting a roundabout (including going straight), but I’ve never heard of indicating right to go straight.

Pfft. No-one is supposed to ever use their indicators except for the purposes of subversive counterintelligence.

Everyone knows that.

swissbignose1:58 am 17 Sep 09

Are you sure about that, Special G?

One is supposed to indicate *left* when exiting a roundabout (including going straight), but I’ve never heard of indicating right to go straight.

maps00454 said :

Hi Again,

Great Interest must be a sore point for most and you too……

As I’m wrong I stand corrected maybe it’s just Canberra people think there above the rest of us. Spoke to a nice copper today who did state it is keep left in an a zone over 80kph well sorry people got it wrong all bar those who still stay in that lane get out your a pain in everyone’s a__e and bloody rude as this copper said it’s a matter of curtsy. Know I know why people have such a wonderful liking for people from the ACT!!!!
Seems to me all over Europe and the rest of the country people have no problem being sensible and staying left but hey these are Canberra’s finest were talking about.

And for horn use that’s a really good point should we book all those people saying good-bye to friends too? with a toot.

Thanks for you interest got some attention hey…….

Well I’d certainly never go out of my way to “curtsy” to people like you.

Muttsybignuts9:47 pm 16 Sep 09

Special G said :

Berra J – read the road rules – technically correct.

BerraJ said :

And can I just ask WHO THE HELL IS TEACHING DRIVERS TO INDICATE RIGHT WHEN GOING STRAIGHT ON A ROUNDABOUT!! I have seen it and almost crashed because of it at least a dozen times.

I thought you were supposed to indicate left to signal that you were exiting the roundabout?

Berra J – read the road rules – technically correct.

BerraJ said :

And can I just ask WHO THE HELL IS TEACHING DRIVERS TO INDICATE RIGHT WHEN GOING STRAIGHT ON A ROUNDABOUT!! I have seen it and almost crashed because of it at least a dozen times.

Now let me get this straight Maps00454. You’ve accosted a woman who was not breaking any law and accused her of doing so. You’ve then advocated tooting at her in a circumstance where the law does not permit use of a horn. You have then admitted that you were wrong on both counts (kudos there).

You are quite correct in that it may have been courteous for the woman to have moved over, although she was in her legal right to stay in her lane. You then suggest that the reason that Canberra people may not be liked is a lack of courtesy. You then throw in a couple of digs at Canberra people; an action that is not exactly courteous. I think a bit more humility is called for when you were so gobsmackingly wrong.

And can I just ask WHO THE HELL IS TEACHING DRIVERS TO INDICATE RIGHT WHEN GOING STRAIGHT ON A ROUNDABOUT!! I have seen it and almost crashed because of it at least a dozen times.

Jim Jones said :

maps00454 said :

Hi Again,

Great Interest must be a sore point for most and you too……

As I’m wrong I stand corrected maybe it’s just Canberra people think there above the rest of us. Spoke to a nice copper today who did state it is keep left in an a zone over 80kph well sorry people got it wrong all bar those who still stay in that lane get out your a pain in everyone’s a__e and bloody rude as this copper said it’s a matter of curtsy. Know I know why people have such a wonderful liking for people from the ACT!!!!
Seems to me all over Europe and the rest of the country people have no problem being sensible and staying left but hey these are Canberra’s finest were talking about.

And for horn use that’s a really good point should we book all those people saying good-bye to friends too? with a toot.

Thanks for you interest got some attention hey…….

I sense great anger within you.

Maybe you’d have less hassles on the road if you, you know, relaxed a little bit. It’s not a race, man. Chillax and enjoy the ride.

Couldn’t agree more. I’d rather get there in one peice than not at all. Plus the longer it takes the more music and ME time I get.

Muttsybignuts1:00 pm 16 Sep 09

Igglepiggle said :

Muttsy were you behind me on the Tharwa Drive roadworks just before lunch? Some tool felt the need to tailgate, try to overtake (into the blocked off roadwork lane!) and then honk once I turned off, all because I had the audacity to sit on the 40km/h speed limit through the roadwork sign! Charmer.

Sorry mate. Wasn’t me. 1. I only tailgate, honk and abuse right hand sitters who drive under the limit. 2. Tharwa road roadworks sounds WAY too far out for me. I live on the dark side.

Muttsybignuts12:57 pm 16 Sep 09

aelliso said :

I always find it amusing when people say “Canberrans cant drive”. I live about 80km east of St Louis on the Illinois side of the Mississippi river and cross into Missouri everyday to go to work. My commute is a little over 150km each way. There is an ongoing battle between Missouri and Illinois drivers as to who is worse. I have driven all over the US, Germany, France, England, Japan and Australia… Everyone is a bad driver! I am as courtious as I can be and hope others will be courtious to me, but I’m sure I make mistakes and piss people off occasionally too. Since my commute is long I have begun trying to appreciate other peoples mindset… I have come to the conclusion you have to be insane to drive these days. I leave my house at 445am to avoid everyone else.

My dad always said to me “If you knew who you were sharing the road with, you’d never get into a car.”

I agree. I grew up in a country town ( famous for pot and the first episode of Underbelly 2) and everyone always said “our people are the worst drivers in the country. Then I moved to Bathurst to attend Uni. Everyone said “Bathurst drivers are the worst in the country”. Finishing Uni I moved to Sydney to become a real working person. Everyone told me: “Sydney people are the worst drivers in the country”. Then I move to Canberra. Unsurprisingly I have been told ” Canberra drivers are the worst in the country”.
So, no matter where you go everyone is a crap driver.

It’s definitely not just Canberra drivers. I passed a driver with NSW plates this morning on the Tuggeranong Parkway near the Hindmarsh drive overpass who was happily sitting in the right hand lane. I happened to be doing 90km/h when I passed him. I watched him in my rear view mirror slowly fade into the distance all the way to the Glenloch interchage. He stayed in the right hand lane the whole way, totally oblivious to the line of traffic overtaking him on the left…

Hells_Bells7411:18 am 16 Sep 09

“Hi Again,

Great Interest must be a sore point for most and you too……

As I’m wrong I stand corrected”

…..

If only you had just left it there..

And, turning across a line of traffic. See, the Traffic Acts and Codes from the parts of the planet where I have done a squillion bazillion miles of driving (sans accident and not even causing any) all have this quaint rule whereby vehicle crossing line of traffic to turn right (say) gives way to vehicle not crossing line of traffic to turn left at same turn. In Canberra, however, there appear to be issued conditional licences that reverse — for holders of same — this rule / convention / piece of logic.

Your squillion bazillion miles of experience haven’t taught you to learn the rules of the road you’re driving on. In the situation you describe here, if the person turning left is entering a sliplane, they must give way to the person turning right. If there is no sliplane, the person turning right must give way.

See here: http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/ARR_February_2009_final.pdf, page 51 (Part 6 Div 2 #62), example 3.

maps00454 said :

Hi Again,

Great Interest must be a sore point for most and you too……

As I’m wrong I stand corrected maybe it’s just Canberra people think there above the rest of us. Spoke to a nice copper today who did state it is keep left in an a zone over 80kph well sorry people got it wrong all bar those who still stay in that lane get out your a pain in everyone’s a__e and bloody rude as this copper said it’s a matter of curtsy. Know I know why people have such a wonderful liking for people from the ACT!!!!
Seems to me all over Europe and the rest of the country people have no problem being sensible and staying left but hey these are Canberra’s finest were talking about.

And for horn use that’s a really good point should we book all those people saying good-bye to friends too? with a toot.

Thanks for you interest got some attention hey…….

Maps….I will give you 10 outa 10 for taking it well in the end. Many on this site would not have.

maps00454 said :

Hi Again,

Great Interest must be a sore point for most and you too……

As I’m wrong I stand corrected maybe it’s just Canberra people think there above the rest of us. Spoke to a nice copper today who did state it is keep left in an a zone over 80kph well sorry people got it wrong all bar those who still stay in that lane get out your a pain in everyone’s a__e and bloody rude as this copper said it’s a matter of curtsy. Know I know why people have such a wonderful liking for people from the ACT!!!!
Seems to me all over Europe and the rest of the country people have no problem being sensible and staying left but hey these are Canberra’s finest were talking about.

And for horn use that’s a really good point should we book all those people saying good-bye to friends too? with a toot.

Thanks for you interest got some attention hey…….

I sense great anger within you.

Maybe you’d have less hassles on the road if you, you know, relaxed a little bit. It’s not a race, man. Chillax and enjoy the ride.

Hi Again,

Great Interest must be a sore point for most and you too……

As I’m wrong I stand corrected maybe it’s just Canberra people think there above the rest of us. Spoke to a nice copper today who did state it is keep left in an a zone over 80kph well sorry people got it wrong all bar those who still stay in that lane get out your a pain in everyone’s a__e and bloody rude as this copper said it’s a matter of curtsy. Know I know why people have such a wonderful liking for people from the ACT!!!!
Seems to me all over Europe and the rest of the country people have no problem being sensible and staying left but hey these are Canberra’s finest were talking about.

And for horn use that’s a really good point should we book all those people saying good-bye to friends too? with a toot.

Thanks for you interest got some attention hey…….

Rid your bike to work, its much more peaceful & stress free……….

TualMasok said :

frank2112 – How do you justify my daily travels along the Monaro; 100 zone, clearly marked KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING, and yet countless morons in the right hand lane that are travelling SLOWER than the traffic in the left. This isn’t restricted to the Monaro Hwy and demonstrates that Canberrans simply don’t care about the KEEP LEFT law, whether it applies to their current driving scenario or not.

Also, on the same road, and on others (eg. Canberra Ave, Adelaide Ave.) I frequently come across two cars, going under the limit, and “price-matching” (both doing the same speed in parallell lanes). How do you justify this legally, frank2112? Neither car will let me pass, neither will slow down and let the other pass, and neither give a crap about the drivers around them that want to pass them. Deliberate obstruction of traffic anyone?

Everyone wants get from A to B without too many hassles, but some people just seem to abuse their rights on the road. And some seem to want to support that.

Mind you, having driven in Brisbane on occasion, Canberra drivers are better. But second last to Brisbane is still pretty poor.

I drive down the Monaro every morning as well and see the same thing. Depends on the time of day. Earlier the better in my book. I usually just sit in the left lane and wait to get cut off as I approach the turn off to Hindmarsh drive. Happens at least twice a week. This morning for instance we were doing 60 past Hume for no reason. The people that pace each other at below the speed limit drive me crazy as well. In the morning I’m only going to work so I don’t stress. Work will still be there when I get there. All those that have to speed and generally annoy every other road users should leave home earlier. Trust me I’m no slow driver.

triffid said :

Rules, schmules . . . semantics. So, too, are the fabulous and most true “speed equals distance over time” calculations.

The point being missed is that the average Canberran, ney, Australian, has parlous vehicle handling skills, pathetic attitudes behind the wheel, low levels of courtesy to other road users and poor road placement skills.

But, Canberra drivers nevertheless have their ‘quirks’. I mean, what is it with the hook turn thing? I thought it was turn right from as far as practicable right. Not engage right indicator and emulate Finnish rally champion with Scandanavian flick technique of jig steering wheel left or position car back in centre of lane before commencing right turn.

And, turning across a line of traffic. See, the Traffic Acts and Codes from the parts of the planet where I have done a squillion bazillion miles of driving (sans accident and not even causing any) all have this quaint rule whereby vehicle crossing line of traffic to turn right (say) gives way to vehicle not crossing line of traffic to turn left at same turn. In Canberra, however, there appear to be issued conditional licences that reverse — for holders of same — this rule / convention / piece of logic.

And, I swear, if I see so much as one more ‘highly gifted vehicle operator’ driving around at night with their fog / driving lights on in clear and good conditions in a built up area . . .

Is it any wonder I feel so much safer in a motor sports competition environment where at least I share the experience with competant professional and others and not a rag tag of mortifyingly scary and incompetant amateurs. And, no, you wouldn’t pick me out there if your life depended on it . . . which it does.

+1 to your fog light comments….I’m with ya there!

I always find it amusing when people say “Canberrans cant drive”. I live about 80km east of St Louis on the Illinois side of the Mississippi river and cross into Missouri everyday to go to work. My commute is a little over 150km each way. There is an ongoing battle between Missouri and Illinois drivers as to who is worse. I have driven all over the US, Germany, France, England, Japan and Australia… Everyone is a bad driver! I am as courtious as I can be and hope others will be courtious to me, but I’m sure I make mistakes and piss people off occasionally too. Since my commute is long I have begun trying to appreciate other peoples mindset… I have come to the conclusion you have to be insane to drive these days. I leave my house at 445am to avoid everyone else.

My dad always said to me “If you knew who you were sharing the road with, you’d never get into a car.”

As others have stated, ARR 130 is pretty clearly worded that drivers are only legally required to keep left if the speed limit is *over* 80km/h. (If that also applies on roads that could safely have a posted speed limit of 90km/h is an entirely different matter.)

Regardless, it’s not worth you getting worked up about, and never worth confronting another driver about. The amount of time she cost you is likely to be a minute or two tops, if any time at all… given traffic light timings it’s possible she even saved you a moment or two. If you were trying to download a file at work and it took a minute longer than usual, would you go and have a “heated exchange” with your IT guy?

Just remember that we’re all people on the road, simply trying to get from A to B safely. Those using motor vehicles all have varying levels of driving skills… yet over 90% of people think they’re superior drivers to most drivers out there. Of course, we’re all pretty average.

Also think about how much time you spent posting a rant about your encounter vs the seconds this woman may have cost you in your travels… and before you go recommending that people “toot” other drivers to teach them a lesson… I suggest you learn Australian Road Rule 224 about horn use:

“A driver must not use, or allow to be used, a horn, or similar warning device, fitted to or in the driver’s vehicle unless:
(a) it is necessary to use the horn, or warning device, to warn other road users or animals of the approach or position of the vehicle; or
(b) the horn, or warning device, is being used as part of an anti-theft device, or an alcohol interlock device, fitted to the vehicle.”

I was driving down Northbourne Ave, heading towards the city and needed to turn right into Turner, so naturally I was in the right lane, a man with a NSW number plate was in a four wheel drive,he was beeping his horn at me, carrying on like idiot yelling, he must have thought he was on a freeway.

a big factor in Canberra is that drivers are from everywhere, all good in their local context but mix them together and that’s what we have.

Whenever that happens i usually just go around them on the transit lane. Illegal sure, but meh, whatever.

Flame away.

la mente torbida said :

Assume everyone on the road is an idiot….you won’t ever be disappointed….it will also lower your stress levels

+1

I’ll take that advice. 🙂

Some people genuinely don’t get ‘merge like a zip’ and think it is always ‘give way to the right’.

A P plater in a flash car actually beeped and waved at me as I was ahead of her in the left lane merging up towards the war memorial. i had to brake to let her in – she didn’t seem to be falling back. then I told a friend, and they said ‘oh but give way to the right’.

jessiegirl said :

by actually leaving a gap in front of me to let someone else in.

Merge like a zip.

Sadly the Canberra mentality is “I might get my willy caught in the zipper”

I assume everyone on the road will do the wrong thing, surprisingly often they prove me right. I know my Barina will come off second best, and even if they are high as a kite, drunk, texting, speeding and totally to blame for leaving me in a wheelchair they will get no more than a suspended sentence. As for the post, as above – take a chill pill, and i feel sorry for the poor woman who had to put up with your seemingly aggressive behaviour.

I used to travel in the left lane down that stretch all the time, but got sick of people closing the gap when I signalled to merge to pass a slower vehicle or to turn right at the roundabout. Nowadays, sit in the right and set the cruise at 80km/h and f ’em if they get excited. And its entirely legal!

I think I might be a very rare breed, but I really don’t think Canberra drivers are that bad and aren’t really very different from other Australian drivers. Sure, there’s stupidly fast, stupidly slow and plain stupid drivers here, but I don’t think they are in any greater proportion than anywhere else.

An observation I’ve made is that whatever city you happen to be in, its inhabitants bitch about their fellow drivers, and of course never about their own driving!

eyeLikeCarrots8:06 pm 15 Sep 09

To the OP. That post was terrible. Take a god damn chill pill and then go back to year 7.

Can’t beat them? Join them 🙂
Welcome to Canberra.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

And the rest of you ‘just keep left out of courtesy’ numpties – why? So you can speed in the right lane? I’ll just see you at the next lights like I always do, and you’ll sheepishly look away and pretend you don’t see me right there beside you again. Ditto for the lights after that.

So why then dont you move to the left lane let the ‘speeder’ go past and then you can have your little moment of self satisfaction at the next set of lights, rather than acting as a sudo police officer – because it appears from your statement that you are only there to slow people down. Join the police force!!

BTW – My speedo is at least 10Kms out – so if there are drivers on the road that are not aware of how much their speedo is out, they can infact be under the limit without knowing it.

I like this theory – driver skill and courtesy are inversely proportional to road quality.

Great roads begets bad driving habits as its all too easy to be inattentive and a lazy driver.

Poor crowded roads tend to require heightened awareness and quite often improved driver courtesy on merging and lane hogging and other passive aggressive uptight crap.

Me I like to go with the flow, remain aware of inattentive drivers and keep safe, afterall we are all trying to get somewhere safely.

Traffic type engineers and mathematical types can tell you that everyone traveling just on the speed limit with a safe breaking distance = maximum traffic throughput in a given system.

Rules, schmules . . . semantics. So, too, are the fabulous and most true “speed equals distance over time” calculations.

The point being missed is that the average Canberran, ney, Australian, has parlous vehicle handling skills, pathetic attitudes behind the wheel, low levels of courtesy to other road users and poor road placement skills.

But, Canberra drivers nevertheless have their ‘quirks’. I mean, what is it with the hook turn thing? I thought it was turn right from as far as practicable right. Not engage right indicator and emulate Finnish rally champion with Scandanavian flick technique of jig steering wheel left or position car back in centre of lane before commencing right turn.

And, turning across a line of traffic. See, the Traffic Acts and Codes from the parts of the planet where I have done a squillion bazillion miles of driving (sans accident and not even causing any) all have this quaint rule whereby vehicle crossing line of traffic to turn right (say) gives way to vehicle not crossing line of traffic to turn left at same turn. In Canberra, however, there appear to be issued conditional licences that reverse — for holders of same — this rule / convention / piece of logic.

And, I swear, if I see so much as one more ‘highly gifted vehicle operator’ driving around at night with their fog / driving lights on in clear and good conditions in a built up area . . .

Is it any wonder I feel so much safer in a motor sports competition environment where at least I share the experience with competant professional and others and not a rag tag of mortifyingly scary and incompetant amateurs. And, no, you wouldn’t pick me out there if your life depended on it . . . which it does.

Woody Mann-Caruso4:15 pm 15 Sep 09

oh, yeah. and when they decide that they should really get into the left lane, there is a car moving towards you.

Sooo…exactly the same as somebody who stays in the left lane, then finds they have to merge right to turn right, except the people in the right lane are usually speeding (or upset that they haven’t met their speeding quota for the day) and much more likely to accelerate rather than let you in. If ‘cars moving toward you’ is a bad thing, stay off the road.

This is very funny and true but how long did it take to write?

Who cares? It was gold.

+1 Ruby Wednesday #18

On my way to work in the mornings I generally stick to the right lane heading towards Woden on Hindmarsh as I have to turn off to the right, after being caught in the left lane and not being given the courtesy of moving back into the right lane when I needed to more than once. However, I ensure that I travel just above the speed limit, so as not to hold up anyone behind me.

Maps00454 you should remember that you are a visitor to the ACT and a guest on our roads. Behave youself as you would if you were in somebody else’s house.
I do believe that instead of money being spent on ‘road safety’ signs that even on first sight are grating, it should be spent educating drivers on road etiquette through a media campaign particulary on the topics of merging, bullying on roundabouts and tailgating. And I suppose since it seems to irritate so many, driving below the speed limit unnecessarily in the right hand lane.

Hank said :

This is very funny and true but how long did it take to write?

Longer than the OP. Certainly longer than the time they lost. However, I was not otherwise able to use the time productively, and I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

c9 said :

Go around her?

Buy a Hummer, and then go over her.

jube_V8Fairlane_235kw2:42 pm 15 Sep 09

I was brought up in Canberra, and learnt to drive there, then spent many years as a professional driver. In this case, the lady was right if you stick to the letter of the law, but I would think common courtesy would overrule this. Also, as I now live in Queensland, I can state the obvious – Canberra drivers are some of the worst and most arrogant in the country.

“You blow ins with your pushy Sydney traffic driving techniques are not going to change the entire older generation of Canberra drivers by following one poor woman all
the way to woden and shouting at her.”

Ever driven in Sydney? Probably the best mergers, most courteous and much safer drivers than you will ever find in Canberra…

c9 said :

Go around her?

I suspect that may have been part of the problem. Just guessing…

As for those who say ‘no problem hanging out in the right lane and keeping level with the car next to you’, I bet you’re one of those sick sick people who like to stand still on a escalator blocking it for everyone behind you. There is a special place in Hell for you, where the fire pit will be rising and you’ll be trying to get past the demon with the massive butt and the zimmer frame in front of you. And I shall be toasting marshmallows off your burning soul.

Wouldn’t it have been so much easier to just stay left?

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:20 pm 15 Sep 09

While we’re bitching and moaning, if you the reader are one of the inconsiderate prats who turns left from the right hand lane at the Jerra exit each morning, I’m memorising your number plate!

When I see you parked at the shops I’ll be sure to leave a polite but detailed note on the front of your car. With my front door key.

Common courtesy is sadly lacking, along with lane discipline and car control skills. Just this morning I watched a marked police car cruise the length of Adelaide Ave in the right hand lane. I know it’s technically legal, but geez, set an example will ya?

joshka said :

So maps00454 (if indeed that is your real name), are your suggesting that we commit an offence against the road rules?

224—Using horns and similar warning devices

A driver must not use, or allow to be used, a horn, or similar warning device, fitted to or in the driver’s vehicle unless:

(a)

it is necessary to use the horn, or warning device, to warn other road users or animals of the approach or position of the vehicle; or

(b)

the horn, or warning device, is being used as part of an anti-theft device, or an alcohol interlock device, fitted to the vehicle.

Offence provision.

You haven’t specified how fast this individual was going, but let’s assume for sake of argument they were doing 60Km/h (yes, Km/h is the unit, not your colloquial kph). Over the distance from the Lodge to the lights at the hospital (I’m not sure which of the two you are referring to so choose a point in between), or 6.3Km, the difference between driving at 80Km/h and 60Km/h is 95 seconds. Your post was 209 words, so unless your typing speed is greater than 130 wpm, you just spent more time complaining than you lost due to the incident. Your diatribe has also wasted the time of at least the 12 people who have made comments – at least 1 of whom has spent more time than you lost.

Summary – take the whinging elsewhere. It serves no purpose here.

This is very funny and true but how long did it take to write?

Yadda yadda yadda… some people are in to being courteous and sticking to the left lane unless they are overtaking. Others don’t give a stuff and wish to do what the OP Lady in the white car did. You can get all stressed about it or you can just try breathing and carefully changing lanes and going past. At that point it is all over and your brain can resume doing something useful like solving the worlds problems.

mrnamjama said :

There’s no particular reason why you can’t just overtake on the left… save yourself the stress!

oh, yeah. and when they decide that they should really get into the left lane, there is a car moving towards you. and if they have the stereo up high, on the phone or other stupid behaviour, they don’t see you till you have to brake or get squashed. And the fright they get gives you another dose of a tirade.

Woody Mann-Caruso1:39 pm 15 Sep 09

Knowing the road rules – you fail at it, maps00454.

And the rest of you ‘just keep left out of courtesy’ numpties – why? So you can speed in the right lane? I’ll just see you at the next lights like I always do, and you’ll sheepishly look away and pretend you don’t see me right there beside you again. Ditto for the lights after that.

If the traffic is congested, it’s legal (and makes sense) to use both lanes. If it isn’t, and you’re in such a fuggin hurry, you’ll have no trouble doing what you admonish the driver in front to do – just go in the left lane.

Tailgating can be easily discouraged by savage (and repeated, if necessary) brake-testing of the tailgater. It works especially well if you have a big nasty towbar 🙂

I stopped doing this once I started riding motorbikes, though.

Adelaide Ave? Why not just use the taxi/bus lane to overtake her and forget about it.

in 80 zones, the right lane tends to be the slowest in canberra (check out belconnon way during the morning/afternoon rush).

in sydney no one keeps to the left lane at all, too many cars parked in it.

#21 – ahappychappy: why have you chosen to embarass yourself this way? Jessiegirl made a legitimate point, you’ve missed it entirely and put your hand up as a person who tailgates traffic into merging lanes. Tailgating the car in front does absolutely nothing to keep “traffic moving at a decent pace”. It just grinds traffic to a halt at the point of merging.

I’ve said it before: learn to merge, Canberra.

can i add that i like the way joshka thinks.

Madame Workalot1:18 pm 15 Sep 09

TualMasok said :

And what about my approach to Canberra in the AM?

I drive from Cooma everyday, and as soon as I hit Royalla, it starts.

Anyone from Royalla here? Please learn to drive.

You know that big road you turn onto? It’s called “The Monaro Highway”. It has a 100K speed limit, and most drivers do that speed limit. So when you pull out in front of us and make us slam our brakes on and almost crash – Thanks! We really enjoy that! Especially when you then refuse to speed up to 100, and stay on 70. And I especially enjoy it when y’all shake your fists in rage because you think I am tail gating, when in fact I just saved you a large amount of money by preventing an accident that you tried to cause, and am only up your butt because I managed to break in time to NOT HIT IT!

Same applies at the next turn off, near the fire shed, but throw in some P Platers from Queanbeyan and Burra, and it’s actually a little bit more sane. Says something about the kind of people that live in Royalla if Queanbo P-Platers have more driving skill and common sense than them.

Hear hear! The Royalla Estate intersection is bloody ridiculous. There should have been a sliplane to compensate for the soccer-mums in their fake 4WDs who have never learnt the art of giving way. In winter in the fog, it’s downright dangerous and I feel like I’m playing a game of chicken when I drive past there.

la mente torbida1:02 pm 15 Sep 09

Assume everyone on the road is an idiot….you won’t ever be disappointed….it will also lower your stress levels

Muttsy were you behind me on the Tharwa Drive roadworks just before lunch? Some tool felt the need to tailgate, try to overtake (into the blocked off roadwork lane!) and then honk once I turned off, all because I had the audacity to sit on the 40km/h speed limit through the roadwork sign! Charmer.

And what about my approach to Canberra in the AM?

I drive from Cooma everyday, and as soon as I hit Royalla, it starts.

Anyone from Royalla here? Please learn to drive.

You know that big road you turn onto? It’s called “The Monaro Highway”. It has a 100K speed limit, and most drivers do that speed limit. So when you pull out in front of us and make us slam our brakes on and almost crash – Thanks! We really enjoy that! Especially when you then refuse to speed up to 100, and stay on 70. And I especially enjoy it when y’all shake your fists in rage because you think I am tail gating, when in fact I just saved you a large amount of money by preventing an accident that you tried to cause, and am only up your butt because I managed to break in time to NOT HIT IT!

Same applies at the next turn off, near the fire shed, but throw in some P Platers from Queanbeyan and Burra, and it’s actually a little bit more sane. Says something about the kind of people that live in Royalla if Queanbo P-Platers have more driving skill and common sense than them.

ahappychappy said :

Drive on the parkway in the morning – you’ll either be stuck behind a spastic doing 80km/h in the 100km/h zone trying to get in the right lane to overtake, or you’ll be stuck in the right hand lane doing 100km/h in the massive line of traffic.

Whinge whinge. (5.7Km @ 80Km/h) – (5.7km @ 100Km/h) = 51 seconds. Leave home a minute earlier if you’re that concerned about this happening. The variance of your daily commute introduced by hitting reds at traffic lights is probably more than this.

frank2112 – How do you justify my daily travels along the Monaro; 100 zone, clearly marked KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING, and yet countless morons in the right hand lane that are travelling SLOWER than the traffic in the left. This isn’t restricted to the Monaro Hwy and demonstrates that Canberrans simply don’t care about the KEEP LEFT law, whether it applies to their current driving scenario or not.

Also, on the same road, and on others (eg. Canberra Ave, Adelaide Ave.) I frequently come across two cars, going under the limit, and “price-matching” (both doing the same speed in parallell lanes). How do you justify this legally, frank2112? Neither car will let me pass, neither will slow down and let the other pass, and neither give a crap about the drivers around them that want to pass them. Deliberate obstruction of traffic anyone?

Everyone wants get from A to B without too many hassles, but some people just seem to abuse their rights on the road. And some seem to want to support that.

Mind you, having driven in Brisbane on occasion, Canberra drivers are better. But second last to Brisbane is still pretty poor.

I have to put in my 2 cents worth. FYI – I am not a ‘blow in’ Canberra driver and talk from experience when I say that too many Canberran abuse the letter of the law by driving in the right hand lane when the left hand lane is clear.

youami is spot on. As already stated by a few posters on here, it may not be law but IMO it is common courtesy. How difficult is it to move over to the left? How about a couple of blinks of the left indicator and a quick lane change and everyone is happy. It really shouldn’t be any skin off you nose. For some it appears all too frightening. I thkn that all drivers would benefit from being retested and assessed on their driving abilities every 5 years.

Regardless of what the current law says, there is enough for drivers to worry about with our ever increasing road traffic, why would you want to open yourself up to having to deal with a car undertaking you. Moving to the left lane removes one more thing for you to worry about. Imagine that motorcyclist who is driven to undertake, when all of a sudden, the car that has sat in the left lane for the last 6kms decides to move left whilst the bike is in the blind spot? This is about saftey.

And to those that drive up Ginninderra Dr every morning from Lynham. The keep Left sign means keep left….not sit in middle lane.

youami said :

read what the woman in the car said back to Maps, regardless of whether it was a ‘heated exchange’ or not. She may be right in the letter of the law, but what she said is the sheer arrogance instilled in many drivers

I can’t imagine she just leaned out of her window unprovoked and said “IT’S MY RIGHT TO TRAVEL IN THE RIGHT LANE” without any reason. Despite that statement being perfectly true.

Given she was wrongly accused of breaking a road rule by a random member of the public, who despite being uninformed chose to impose their understanding on a stranger, I’m surprised there weren’t more expletives in there.

Muttsybignuts12:33 pm 15 Sep 09

Sheeesh…just do what everyone else does. Sit right on her arse and start to flash your lights and sit on your horn. Then, when she finally moves over, or you somehow get around, flip the finger and mouth some over exaggerated statements like “your a F**khead” etc

ahappychappy12:19 pm 15 Sep 09

Besides pointing out that Maps# had no knowledge of the formal roadrules I’m surprised there haven’t been more complaints.

jessiegirl said :

Hi Maps, Get used to the Canberra way of driving it won’t change. I moved here two years ago and arestill astounded by the method of merging that is used here. I have to merge four times on my way to work and are slowly trying to educate drivers by actually leaving a gap in front of me to let someone else in. The Canberra method of merging goes somthing like this…see a ‘Form one Lane’ sign and speed up and tail gate the car in front…then slam you brakes on as the other lane tries to merge…travel at 10km/h for no reason…then speed up again and travel over the speed limit. So Maps sorry, but get used to it.

I hope by “leaving a gap in front of me to let someoneelse in” you mean a gap large enough for a car to fit in, not four cars to fit in. Perhaps the people speeding up to tailgate the car infront are going around you simply because you’re overcompensating in your gap and travelling well below the speed limit? Just because you leave a gap infront of your car (even when it’s not necessary to do so as a lot of people with your view do), doesn’t mean you’re any “better” at merging than someone who leaves a small gap to the car infront so traffic keeps moving at a decent pace. Unfortunately, when you get a “small gapper” and a “big gapper” together, things get ugly.

THE most annoying thing on Canberra roads are those that travel UNDER the speedlimit. If you don’t feel comfortable doing the speedlimit, DONT DRIVE. People that are sitting in the righthand lane are usually there because people are in the left lane doing below the speedlimit so everyone has to go around them.

Drive on the parkway in the morning – you’ll either be stuck behind a spastic doing 80km/h in the 100km/h zone trying to get in the right lane to overtake, or you’ll be stuck in the right hand lane doing 100km/h in the massive line of traffic.

Another post: the majority of ranters here have criticised Maps for getting his interpretation of the road rules wrong. Maybe we should take a look back at his post and read what the woman in the car said back to Maps, regardless of whether it was a ‘heated exchange’ or not. She may be right in the letter of the law, but what she said is the sheer arrogance instilled in many drivers, Canberra drivers especially but not necessarily, and that is what frustrates other drivers rightly or wrongly. So whilst Maps got it wrong wrt the road rules, the woman didn’t need to abuse her rights and blatantly take advantage of them unnecessarily (maybe she did it all in spite even perhaps to annoy Maps, who knows?). I wonder if she would have said the same to the driver of an ambulance with it’s sirens on heading to the hospital with a heart patient? I bet you anything she would have.

Thoroughly Smashed11:43 am 15 Sep 09

indigoid said :

Overtaking on the left is frowned upon for good reason[…]

By whom? Overtaking on the left on a multi-lane road is fine: http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/ARR_February_2009_final.pdf, Division 3, Rule 141(1)(a)

Ruby Wednesday11:29 am 15 Sep 09

On certain stretches of road I do stay in the right-hand lane in a 90 zone simply because, if I were to move to the left-hand lane, the bastards flying down the right-hand lane wouldn’t let me move back over in time to take the exit I need. If you’re one of those people, I have no sympathy for you!

frank2112 said :

As far as I can tell she was in the right. It applies to roads OVER 80km/h. Adelaide Ave is not over 80 last time I looked. unless there was a sign as part (b) states here then you are barking up the wrong tree.

130 Keeping to the left on a multi-lane road
(1) This rule applies to a driver driving on a multi-lane road if:
(a) the speed-limit applying to the driver for the length of
road where the driver is driving is over 80 kilometres
per hour; or
(b) a keep left unless overtaking sign applies to the length
of road where the driver is driving.

All true and correct. The key is the word ‘over’ (and/or signs obviously). I also agree with the other comments above in that it can be common courtesy to keep left. You are also allowed to undertake (ie. overtake on the left) on multi-laned roads where there are lane markings.

joshka said :

So maps00454 (if indeed that is your real name), are your suggesting that we commit an offence against the road rules?

I take offence to that, my mothers name was maps00454.

It is pretty rude to hog the right lane like that. “Just go around” is poor advice, in my humble opinion. Overtaking on the left is frowned upon for good reason — it is more dangerous than overtaking on the right, because you are rather less visible to the car you are overtaking. Many (most?) cars out there don’t even have correctly adjusted left mirrors!

After living 25 of my 30 years in Canberra, including learning to drive there, I must say I feel significantly safer commuting every day in Sydney (Mortdale to Matraville, around the bay; the M5 tunnel stinks!) on my motorbike than I do in Canberra (Fisher to Symonston) either in car or on bike. I certainly don’t view Sydney drivers as “pushy”. I do commute in both cities each and every week, so this a fair and direct comparison.

Map00454, you haven’t stated the speed at which the the dear old dear was travelling in the right hand lane.

There’s no particular reason why you can’t just overtake on the left… save yourself the stress!

So maps00454 (if indeed that is your real name), are your suggesting that we commit an offence against the road rules?

224—Using horns and similar warning devices

A driver must not use, or allow to be used, a horn, or similar warning device, fitted to or in the driver’s vehicle unless:

(a) it is necessary to use the horn, or warning device, to warn other road users or animals of the approach or position of the vehicle; or

(b) the horn, or warning device, is being used as part of an anti-theft device, or an alcohol interlock device, fitted to the vehicle.

Offence provision.

You haven’t specified how fast this individual was going, but let’s assume for sake of argument they were doing 60Km/h (yes, Km/h is the unit, not your colloquial kph). Over the distance from the Lodge to the lights at the hospital (I’m not sure which of the two you are referring to so choose a point in between), or 6.3Km, the difference between driving at 80Km/h and 60Km/h is 95 seconds. Your post was 209 words, so unless your typing speed is greater than 130 wpm, you just spent more time complaining than you lost due to the incident. Your diatribe has also wasted the time of at least the 12 people who have made comments – at least 1 of whom has spent more time than you lost.

Summary – take the whinging elsewhere. It serves no purpose here.

One comment – why do you have to be a “Canberran” just becuase you are driving in Canberra.
When people talk of “Canberra drivers” what is to say they are not someone who has moved here in recent years and in which case are a “New Canberran” ie originally from somewhere else (like the commentator normally is) and hence bringing their bad driving TO Canberra.
Does this make sence ie blame the driver not the city.

Yes i presumed it was highways over 80 km also. Besides if she was in the right go in the left? Hmm did i just say something logical?

Ahhh, this argument is like a comfy old blanket.

Frank2112, you’re absolutely right.

On the other hand, there’s common courtesy – my rule is, if you’re in the right lane, and there’s someone behind you, but nobody in front of you, get out of the way. I follow this, as well as expecting it of others. (I get disappointed a lot though.)

Frank’s right, it only applies for over 80kmph zones.

Unless she was travelling substantially below the 80km speed limit or in some other way obstructing the flow of traffic, I’m not sure I see what the problem was anyway.

Whereas you, maps, appear to have engaged in aggressive and inappropriate behaviour. What did you think you were doing having “heated exchanges” with people at traffic lights?

Not courteous, safe and sensible driving at, all to my mind.

All these bright young things from the big smoke need to realise that anyone over 35 in Canberra learned to drive when the roads were practically empty and Canberra was like a big country town- with huge wide roads and no traffic.

You blow ins with your pushy Sydney traffic driving techniques are not going to change the entire older generation of Canberra drivers by following one poor woman all
the way to woden and shouting at her.

chill out!

I can also add this has been a rule for a long time now, not one that is part of any ‘ever changing’ road rules. I also don’t recall any keep left unless overtaking signs on that stretch of road.

I concur with F2112. Maps#, unless there was a sign that said keep left, then there is no obligation or rule to keep left if the speed limit was 80.

ARR Div2 #130 says :the speed-limit applying to the driver for the length of
road where the driver is driving is over 80 kilometres
per hour; or a keep left unless overtaking sign applies to the length
of road where the driver is driving.

Now I dont know what your interpretation of what the word “over” is, but to me it is something that is higher than the said number, in this case 80. So I am interpreting it that, you are applying this rule to the actual speed that you might be doing, not the speed limit in itself. Did you ever stop to think that there are only keep left signs in slow moving traffic roads like Erindale Drive for a reason. Otherwise we would see keep left signs on every 80kmh road.

Hey, think of it in this context. The person legally driving in the right lane (if they were also doing the legal speed limit), were probably doing you and the vast majority of Canberra drivers as well, a benifit. Slowing you down, from geting a speed ticket.

Of course if the said “offender” was doing 60kmh in the 80 zone, then it would just be courteous to let others pass at 80kmh.

Go around her?

Frank, common courtesy is not a law either, but for the most part is best practise.
No one has a right to be discourteous.

Hi Maps, Get used to the Canberra way of driving it won’t change. I moved here two years ago and arestill astounded by the method of merging that is used here. I have to merge four times on my way to work and are slowly trying to educate drivers by actually leaving a gap in front of me to let someone else in. The Canberra method of merging goes somthing like this…see a ‘Form one Lane’ sign and speed up and tail gate the car in front…then slam you brakes on as the other lane tries to merge…travel at 10km/h for no reason…then speed up again and travel over the speed limit. So Maps sorry, but get used to it.

As far as I can tell she was in the right. It applies to roads OVER 80km/h. Adelaide Ave is not over 80 last time I looked. unless there was a sign as part (b) states here then you are barking up the wrong tree.

130 Keeping to the left on a multi-lane road
(1) This rule applies to a driver driving on a multi-lane road if:
(a) the speed-limit applying to the driver for the length of
road where the driver is driving is over 80 kilometres
per hour; or
(b) a keep left unless overtaking sign applies to the length
of road where the driver is driving.

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