15 yr old cyclist down on Yamba Drive

Pestiness said :

This is my colleague’s little fellah. There was no hit and run. The poor driver almost had a heart attack and was not in the wrong. The kid was thankfully wearing a helmet, which probably saved him from being critical. He has a few broken bones (foot/ankle and 2 broken bones in his spine that apparently wont affect mobility), a ripped ear, a ruptured spleen, but is expected to make a full recovery. He’s sore and has a lot of grazes but has learned a valuable road safety lesson! He is mostly concerned about missing out on a proposed trip to the coast this weekend.

Dismounting while crossing roads is NOT ridiculous, if the rider is using the paths. If the cyclist is on the road as a vehicle, they must abide by the same rules as motorists.

PHEW for ALL involved. When a bike goes against a vehicle, the rider is seldom so fortunate. For that matter, nor is the vehicle driver.

Through a friend of a friend, yada yada, have heard a bit more about this incident and what I was told pretty much ties in with the above version of events.

A pretty scary moment for all involved no doubt.

Apologies for carelessly shooting my mouth off in response #1, too.

Erg0 said :

NoImRight said :

Anyone else sick of the freakin Dutch being touted as a role model of perfect behaviour? Geebus….

You’d never catch the Dutch complaining like that.

Well played Sir.

I like it how in that video, which is apparently cycling Mecca, has like 10 cars to every bicycle

NoImRight said :

Anyone else sick of the freakin Dutch being touted as a role model of perfect behaviour? Geebus….

You’d never catch the Dutch complaining like that.

Jethro said :

dungfungus said :

The dismount while crossing law is ridiculous. If 95% of people disobey a law, perhaps it is the law that is the problem, not the 95% of people.

I can see where the law makers were coming from when they decided upon the dismount law. Too many cyclists are absolute idiots are corsswalks and just ride straight out without even slowing down. However, to make a law that requires cyclists to dismount and push their bike across every crosswalk is overkill.

The law should simply be that cyclists must come to a complete stop before crossing (maybe as signified by a foot touching the ground while the bike is stopped). Constantly mounting and dismounting a bike is probably more dangerous than simply stopping and then riding across the crossing when it is safe to do so.

Of course, as someone who always comes to a complete stop (but rides across when safe), I have noticed that my stopping seems to give a message to drivers that they no longer need to give right of way to me. Most cars will see me slow down and stop and simply drive straight through the crosswalk.

I often ride straight across crossings on my way north to Woden (and back) thrice weekly. I do however get out of the saddle, feather the brakes, and have a good, long, hard look at the traffic before making my decision on how fast/slow I cross, or indeed if I am required to stop at all. Most drivers of motorised transport are very good and signal for me to continue, As when driving, making eye contact is critical.

What I find idiotic in the laws is that a crossing is a crossing is a crossing. When a crossing is a continuation of a dedicated bike path, it needs to be recognised as such in the legislation. The hotchpotch of laws with regards cycling and its infrastructure is a failure of the part of government to recognise the level of cycling in the community and its legitimacy as a mode of transport. Governments cannot crow about having piecemeal infrastructure when on road cyle lanes disappear on approach to an intersection or pedestrian rules apply at crossings that link cycle paths across roads.

Hope the lad makes a full recovery and both he and the driver of the motorised transport both learn from the incident.

BicycleCanberra said :

KeenGolfer said :

BicycleCanberra said :

We are looking at adopting the Vision zero policy…

Canberra does have a Vision Zero policy, adapted from the Sweedish model. Have a look a the ACT Road Safety Action Plan 2011-2013 and the ACT Road Safety Strategy 2011-2020, both available online.

Can you find me where ( in the documents) are we looking to adopt the speed limits of 30kmh residential streets, 50km/h main collector roads in built up areas,70km main arterial roads and 90-100km on Highways. Better separation of cycling infrastructure on high speed high volume roads?

Adapt and adopt are two different words.

NoImRight said :

Anyone else sick of the freakin Dutch being touted as a role model of perfect behaviour? Geebus….

Yes.

madamcholet said :

Went past there yesterday when all the police vehicles were still in attendance. A police officer was looking at the bike which was in two pieces – and it was not a big bike – more a bmx style thing from what I saw. I didn’t see a car to be honest, but was concentrating more on my driving at the time.

It’s a funny area there – everyone still thinks that the 60 zone now in effect at the hospital is still 80 – or at least they ignore it on purpose. In fact, just the other day I had a driver scream at me as we finally came side by side to “get out of the fast lane…”. Was a bit non-plussed about what “the fast lane” is on an 60/80 stretch of busy road in use by cars and pedestrians and cycles!! Especially when my speed was at no point under the speed-limit.

Hope the cyclist is ok – wondering if they were going from the pavement across to the skate/bike park and chanced their luck or was just unlucky by a red light jumper….and don’t get me started on those.

It would make sense that the 60 km/h section was extended to north of the lights. Given there are two sets of lights in close proximity and an area that attracts children (in the form of a skate park). From where does one presume the children would most likely come? My guess would be the houses on the other side of Yamba.

NoImRight said :

Anyone else sick of the freakin Dutch being touted as a role model of perfect behaviour? Geebus….

I’d love to be showing Australian examples here and there are, but until Aus traffic engineers start design transport infrastructure for all users and not just cars then the dutch will always be the model of people oriented cities

KeenGolfer said :

BicycleCanberra said :

We are looking at adopting the Vision zero policy…

Canberra does have a Vision Zero policy, adapted from the Sweedish model. Have a look a the ACT Road Safety Action Plan 2011-2013 and the ACT Road Safety Strategy 2011-2020, both available online.

Can you find me where ( in the documents) are we looking to adopt the speed limits of 30kmh residential streets, 50km/h main collector roads in built up areas,70km main arterial roads and 90-100km on Highways. Better separation of cycling infrastructure on high speed high volume roads?

Anyone else sick of the freakin Dutch being touted as a role model of perfect behaviour? Geebus….

I didn’t finish school THAT long ago, and we had plenty of road safety lessons, which were rolled into our health program, and discussed in depth in other classes as well. Granted I went to a private school for the most part, but even then most schools that I know of offer the road ready course to be done on school grounds to encourage young drivers, my only issue with the road safety program is that it doesn’t cover cyclists.

BicycleCanberra said :

We are looking at adopting the Vision zero policy…

Canberra does have a Vision Zero policy, adapted from the Sweedish model. Have a look a the ACT Road Safety Action Plan 2011-2013 and the ACT Road Safety Strategy 2011-2020, both available online.

BicycleCanberra said :

Dork said :

When people learn to drive they have have to know the laws and know the consequences, kids learn about road safety in school, but nothing to do with when you are riding a bike.

Children in Canberra schools now days learn very little about road safety except what they learn from the back seat of their parents car. The Koala visits now and then but that’s about all. We used to have good road safety training and cycle safety at the the training centre’s in Deakin and Belconnen before they closed them down.
In the Netherlands this type of training still continues today and children sit a road safety cycle test in the last year of primary school as the majority of them cycle to High school.

http://vimeo.com/31545084

Probably has a bit to do with why the stats on fatalities from cyclists not wearing helmets is so low over there. If cycling is a more ingrained part of the daily culture then the basic hurdle of awareness/appreciation between the warring motorists and cyclists has already been overcome before kids get their driving licence.

Gee, better education regarding road use resulting in what appears to be a better outcome for all. Who’d a thunk it.

Dork said :

When people learn to drive they have have to know the laws and know the consequences, kids learn about road safety in school, but nothing to do with when you are riding a bike.

Children in Canberra schools now days learn very little about road safety except what they learn from the back seat of their parents car. The Koala visits now and then but that’s about all. We used to have good road safety training and cycle safety at the the training centre’s in Deakin and Belconnen before they closed them down.
In the Netherlands this type of training still continues today and children sit a road safety cycle test in the last year of primary school as the majority of them cycle to High school.

http://vimeo.com/31545084

dungfungus said :

When you see your cop mate at the weekend, ask him also why the police continue to refuse to prosecute cyclists that still insist on riding on a pedestrian crossing. A lot of comments have been that the law is stupid but it is still the law. I think it is stupid to limit speed on the GDE to 80 kmh but the police and radar will still book me if I break the law by exceeding the limit. There is a bit of a double standard here namely, soak the motorists but don’t touch the peddlers.

I was thinking of this this morning on my commute. This morning I witnessed riders doing things that were not really kosher on the cycle paths. One of the things that bugs me is oncoming riders who wont pass other riders & pedestrians safely (seems to be a Canberra thing because Canberrans cant do it in cars either).

I think education is the key, myself started riding again 4 years ago. Personally I like to explore my activities & understand them better but many people do not. There is literature that can give guidence to people but really sometimes it is face to face education that will get through. After that then enforcement penalties are next.

I had a look at the list of Infringements on the AFP website & it is quite extensive from not riding across the pedestrian crossing, keeping left to passing safely. It surprised me how many infringements there were, there are also infringements for pedestrians.

One of the big things people are forgetting is that while some of these things are a PITA, society is coping with it OK. Yep, there are accidents with the occaisional death but compared to motor vehicles its a drop in the ocean & enforcement is pretty low on the Governents radar.

This is not to say people should not take responsibility for themselves either.

dungfungus said :

qbngeek said :

Jethro said :

Dork said :

On another note, I saw a man on a bike get hit by a car on athlon drive next to melrose high last year. He didn’t dismount his bike to cross the road, though it was the cars fault in this case, if he had have then he wouldn’t have got hit.

I fail to see how a car running a crosswalk and hitting someone would have been prevented if the person on the crosswalk was walking instead of riding.

If you read my original comment on the topic I did mention that one of the problems associated with cyclists stopping at a crosswalk to check it is safe to cross is that cars take this to mean they can ignore the cyclist’s right of way. The problem lies with drivers not giving way when they have to, not whether the person is going across the crosswalk by foot or pedal.

More importantly if the cyclist was riding across the pedestrian crossing, in what world does he have the right of way. My understanding of the matter, and I will check with a cop mate on the weekend, is that cyclist have to dismount as they do not have any rights on a pedestrian crossing. They are required to give way to the cars unless they dismount and walk across.

When you see your cop mate at the weekend, ask him also why the police continue to refuse to prosecute cyclists that still insist on riding on a pedestrian crossing. A lot of comments have been that the law is stupid but it is still the law. I think it is stupid to limit speed on the GDE to 80 kmh but the police and radar will still book me if I break the law by exceeding the limit. There is a bit of a double standard here namely, soak the motorists but don’t touch the peddlers.

I have asked him previously about the lack of action against cyclists, mainly in regards to them not wearing helmets. His response is that he will book cyclists (he is a NSW cop btw), but many cops won’t as they think it is a pain in the butt. He also mentioned that cyclists are not required to carry ID and he has had people give false info to him.

qbngeek said :

Jethro said :

Dork said :

On another note, I saw a man on a bike get hit by a car on athlon drive next to melrose high last year. He didn’t dismount his bike to cross the road, though it was the cars fault in this case, if he had have then he wouldn’t have got hit.

I fail to see how a car running a crosswalk and hitting someone would have been prevented if the person on the crosswalk was walking instead of riding.

If you read my original comment on the topic I did mention that one of the problems associated with cyclists stopping at a crosswalk to check it is safe to cross is that cars take this to mean they can ignore the cyclist’s right of way. The problem lies with drivers not giving way when they have to, not whether the person is going across the crosswalk by foot or pedal.

More importantly if the cyclist was riding across the pedestrian crossing, in what world does he have the right of way. My understanding of the matter, and I will check with a cop mate on the weekend, is that cyclist have to dismount as they do not have any rights on a pedestrian crossing. They are required to give way to the cars unless they dismount and walk across.

When you see your cop mate at the weekend, ask him also why the police continue to refuse to prosecute cyclists that still insist on riding on a pedestrian crossing. A lot of comments have been that the law is stupid but it is still the law. I think it is stupid to limit speed on the GDE to 80 kmh but the police and radar will still book me if I break the law by exceeding the limit. There is a bit of a double standard here namely, soak the motorists but don’t touch the peddlers.

I’m not, which I made clear in my previous post. I understand that everybody is different and that people make mistakes, I agree with you about road design. The issue I have is that making one mistake in a situation like this can cause death or serious injury and it’s not uncommon. It seems that we both agree that it needs to be more safe for everybody. All i’m saying is that people need to follow the law to keep themselves safe. What if we do implement the vision zero policy and no one abides by it. Would suggest scraping the policy if this was the case? I doubt that. I suggest better understanding, When people learn to drive they have have to know the laws and know the consequences, kids learn about road saftey in school, but nothing to do with when you are riding a bike.

Ryan said :

Jethro said :

There is no legitimate reason why stopping and then riding across is disallowed.

I see it as a way to discourage cyclists from just hooning straight across the crossing. I often drive along Corinna St in Woden and even traveling below the 40km speed limit, and approaching the crossing with caution. I have had occasion to slam the brakes because some cyclist has zoomed out from between the buildings on either side and hooned straight across the crossing without so much as a glance to their left or right.

That is something I discussed in my original comment on this thread… I figured the law exists in reaction to the dickhead cyclists who don’t so much as slow down at the crossings. These people aren’t going to obey any law, so the law should be sensible, not a reaction to their dickheadery.