18, pregnant, charged in relation to a murder, and now done for shoplifting. Meet Camilla Krutsky

pink_cross said :

Just-An-Opinion said :

A government house in kaleen? Now i have no idea what gives you that idea but sure, whatever keeps you happy.. And you are still both passing judgement on something you don’t know squat about, although if it puts your minds at ease, then so be it.

And her oracle apartment wasn’t paid for by either her mother or ‘step father’ although they are not married so he is not a step father to Camilla?.. Nor was it paid for by her partner,and everything handed to her with dirty drug money? Far out, if you say so.. But honestly get a grip on yourselves, the only people she knows who were(Were being the key term) heavily involved in drugs was her mother and may well still be , her mother’s partner .And you would have to wonder if anyone close to Camilla beleived the newspapers, and homicide squad detectives (Who may i add are under investigation for corruption at the present time).. Why do you think we are standing by her if we weren’t damn sure we were right to do so. So if you are going to dribble atleast get it right?

And Camilla was working up untill she fell pregnant, in a childcare centre. I am probably not going to comment further on this , as i have been asked not to, although i find it strange people can say things such as you have.. With no such proof or even the smallest bit of truth to what you are saying..

you are funny i know for a fact she wasnt working as i was with her every day she went to tafe a couple of nights a week that is all so i dont know who you are but you obviously need to get your facts right she wanted to work in childcare but had not reached it and proberly never will now

This had obviously gotten under you skin quicker than any syringe would.

pink_cross said :

…see that is the difference between me and you i know facts because i was with her every step of the way and before that as well so YOU really need to get your facts straight…

Please leave your name and number and the police will be in touch shortly, as reading that, you were either with her when she committed a crime, or can provide an alibi and save the DPP some money…

pink_cross said :

creative_canberran said :

pink_cross said :

wow you dont know much she wasnt working she was studying untill she was charged for something she didnt do
do any of you guys know what its like to see someone try to do so good and brought down because of missdeeds that have nought to do with them this whole case shattered her life and whats worse none of youse could care less

Can it trailer trash. Having children and deserving the compassion of society are privileges. Neither is a right. She got knocked up and wilfully committed criminal offences. She deserves only our ridicule and shame. We as a society can only hope the child is taken from her and put with a good, deserving family. After all, Camilla’s mother is currently facing charges for related offences… doesn’t take a genius to see how she ended up this way.

And quit with the “youse”.

are you kidding me you still dont knoiw her who are you to pass judgment do YOU know for a fact it was her who committed this crime or are you just going by what you heard see that is the difference between me and you i know facts because i was with her every step of the way and before that as well so YOU really need to get your facts straight before condemming an innocent women yea she stold shit from a mall big fucking deal you have people stealing cars and robbing houses on a regular basis she should be the least of everyones problems you dont know her or her family YOU are going by what you saw on t.v but none of you dogs no her so f*** up

Longest sentence ever. Go back to school kid, and stop embarrassing yourself.

pink_cross said :

creative_canberran said :

pink_cross said :

wow you dont know much she wasnt working she was studying untill she was charged for something she didnt do
do any of you guys know what its like to see someone try to do so good and brought down because of missdeeds that have nought to do with them this whole case shattered her life and whats worse none of youse could care less

Can it trailer trash. Having children and deserving the compassion of society are privileges. Neither is a right. She got knocked up and wilfully committed criminal offences. She deserves only our ridicule and shame. We as a society can only hope the child is taken from her and put with a good, deserving family. After all, Camilla’s mother is currently facing charges for related offences… doesn’t take a genius to see how she ended up this way.

And quit with the “youse”.

are you kidding me you still dont knoiw her who are you to pass judgment do YOU know for a fact it was her who committed this crime or are you just going by what you heard see that is the difference between me and you i know facts because i was with her every step of the way and before that as well so YOU really need to get your facts straight before condemming an innocent women yea she stold shit from a mall big fucking deal you have people stealing cars and robbing houses on a regular basis she should be the least of everyones problems you dont know her or her family YOU are going by what you saw on t.v but none of you dogs no her so f*** up

At the risk of being labelled a pedant, I would suggest that your statement that she is an innocent woman is in conflict with your acknowledgement that she ‘stold (sic) shit from a mall’.

creative_canberran said :

pink_cross said :

wow you dont know much she wasnt working she was studying untill she was charged for something she didnt do
do any of you guys know what its like to see someone try to do so good and brought down because of missdeeds that have nought to do with them this whole case shattered her life and whats worse none of youse could care less

Can it trailer trash. Having children and deserving the compassion of society are privileges. Neither is a right. She got knocked up and wilfully committed criminal offences. She deserves only our ridicule and shame. We as a society can only hope the child is taken from her and put with a good, deserving family. After all, Camilla’s mother is currently facing charges for related offences… doesn’t take a genius to see how she ended up this way.

And quit with the “youse”.

are you kidding me you still dont knoiw her who are you to pass judgment do YOU know for a fact it was her who committed this crime or are you just going by what you heard see that is the difference between me and you i know facts because i was with her every step of the way and before that as well so YOU really need to get your facts straight before condemming an innocent women yea she stold shit from a mall big fucking deal you have people stealing cars and robbing houses on a regular basis she should be the least of everyones problems you dont know her or her family YOU are going by what you saw on t.v but none of you dogs no her so f*** up

What a load of shite. Add robbery to the list of crimes to be answered for……………

pink_cross said :

wow you dont know much she wasnt working she was studying untill she was charged for something she didnt do
do any of you guys know what its like to see someone try to do so good and brought down because of missdeeds that have nought to do with them this whole case shattered her life and whats worse none of youse could care less

Can it trailer trash. Having children and deserving the compassion of society are privileges. Neither is a right. She got knocked up and wilfully committed criminal offences. She deserves only our ridicule and shame. We as a society can only hope the child is taken from her and put with a good, deserving family. After all, Camilla’s mother is currently facing charges for related offences… doesn’t take a genius to see how she ended up this way.

And quit with the “youse”.

Just-An-Opinion said :

A government house in kaleen? Now i have no idea what gives you that idea but sure, whatever keeps you happy.. And you are still both passing judgement on something you don’t know squat about, although if it puts your minds at ease, then so be it.

And her oracle apartment wasn’t paid for by either her mother or ‘step father’ although they are not married so he is not a step father to Camilla?.. Nor was it paid for by her partner,and everything handed to her with dirty drug money? Far out, if you say so.. But honestly get a grip on yourselves, the only people she knows who were(Were being the key term) heavily involved in drugs was her mother and may well still be , her mother’s partner .And you would have to wonder if anyone close to Camilla beleived the newspapers, and homicide squad detectives (Who may i add are under investigation for corruption at the present time).. Why do you think we are standing by her if we weren’t damn sure we were right to do so. So if you are going to dribble atleast get it right?

And Camilla was working up untill she fell pregnant, in a childcare centre. I am probably not going to comment further on this , as i have been asked not to, although i find it strange people can say things such as you have.. With no such proof or even the smallest bit of truth to what you are saying..

you are funny i know for a fact she wasnt working as i was with her every day she went to tafe a couple of nights a week that is all so i dont know who you are but you obviously need to get your facts right she wanted to work in childcare but had not reached it and proberly never will now

myob29 said :

Completely agree Erg, Camilla dosnt know wat it’s like to actually have to work for something as everything has been handed to her with dirty drug money.
Can guarantee she didnt save, work toward, or do anything to earn wat she has now.
Just like her mother she is willing to lie thru her teeth. I hope the whole family rot.

now this is just plain pathetic who are you anyway you judge their family there are little kids in that family are you going to hold them accountable for one mans actions ?????

BerraBoy68 said :

Just-An-Opinion said: “Camilla was working up until she fell pregnant, in a childcare centre” .

Struth, I hope the poor little kiddies were outside and didn’t see what was going on:)

wow you dont know much she wasnt working she was studying untill she was charged for something she didnt do
do any of you guys know what its like to see someone try to do so good and brought down because of missdeeds that have nought to do with them this whole case shattered her life and whats worse none of youse could care less

i have known camilla for years and i know that she did not have any involvment directly or inderctly
people on here are so quick to judge and point the finger i pity you all for you obviously have no leads no nothing if camilla is the one in the firing line its pathetic i was there when she first found out about the death i was there when she found out she was going toi be charged she was my best friend i would be willing to lay my life on the line to prove her innocence yet people on this site who dont even know her are trying to condemn her

Drugos killed my friend

Well,
This might be way out there BUT when my pop was really old,,he began shop-lifting.
He owned 2 houses, a unit and had a heap of money but just began stealing odd things that he had no use for.
After he was caught a few times I asked why he was doing it and he said “I like all the attention”
Seems as we all grew up and moved on with our lives pop was feeling abandoned, found it hard to make friends and liked the attention he got,, not just from police and interviews but the shop asistants/managers, other staff, other shoppers etc. Then of course all of us fussing about him being arrested for shop-lifting.

Maybe this girl has had a rough start and been noone for sooo long that the attention now being given to her makes her feel ‘important’? She certainly isn’t a noone any more.
18yo and 3 pages on here just about her!! (just for a start)

I’ve seen good kids grow up bad,,,and bad kids grow up good. It isn’t always about the parents and family life. It’s about the support network and choices.
Shame that we keep seeing such young people involved in stuff like this.

Just-An-Opinion said: “Camilla was working up until she fell pregnant, in a childcare centre” .

Struth, I hope the poor little kiddies were outside and didn’t see what was going on:)

and homicide squad detectives (Who may i add are under investigation for corruption at the present time)

Gotta love how you slag someone else for talking about unfounded bullshit rumours, then you come out with this clanger.

A government house in kaleen? Now i have no idea what gives you that idea but sure, whatever keeps you happy.. And you are still both passing judgement on something you don’t know squat about, although if it puts your minds at ease, then so be it.

And her oracle apartment wasn’t paid for by either her mother or ‘step father’ although they are not married so he is not a step father to Camilla?.. Nor was it paid for by her partner,and everything handed to her with dirty drug money? Far out, if you say so.. But honestly get a grip on yourselves, the only people she knows who were(Were being the key term) heavily involved in drugs was her mother and may well still be , her mother’s partner .And you would have to wonder if anyone close to Camilla beleived the newspapers, and homicide squad detectives (Who may i add are under investigation for corruption at the present time).. Why do you think we are standing by her if we weren’t damn sure we were right to do so. So if you are going to dribble atleast get it right?

And Camilla was working up untill she fell pregnant, in a childcare centre. I am probably not going to comment further on this , as i have been asked not to, although i find it strange people can say things such as you have.. With no such proof or even the smallest bit of truth to what you are saying..

Completely agree Erg, Camilla dosnt know wat it’s like to actually have to work for something as everything has been handed to her with dirty drug money.
Can guarantee she didnt save, work toward, or do anything to earn wat she has now.
Just like her mother she is willing to lie thru her teeth. I hope the whole family rot.

Oh please! Camilla has a wonderful guvvy house in kaleen now. Oh and her oracle apartment was paid for with drug money from her baby daddy/junkie mum/loser step dad.
If it wasnt for her Andre would still be alive. Just because he sold marijuana doesnt mean he deserved to die for it. If thats the case Camilla, her mum, her step dad and baby daddy deserve the same fate.

If she hasn’t grown up around crime, wat posseses her to go on a shoplifting spree the day her mother’s house is raided & she is taken into police custody? Oh that’s right.. she was stressed!!
Yes I do class all 3 of them as thugs, because although Camilla may have not intently wanted Andre to be killed, she has ‘been accused’ of holding information for the robbery to happen, so without her part, he may still be alive. I’m sure she is feeling pretty bad about herself right now, having to not only life with herself knowing the mistakes she has made,but also live in the same apartment block.

However long the trial takes, like i said, all we can do is wait until the evidence is shown, and they are convicted, and when [if] it does, I feel sorry for people like the grandmother, and even yourself who have stood by them.

I could also ask how you ‘know’ so much.. Although we all only know as much as we’ve been shown or told.. Although you put all 3 under the catagory of thugs and low lifes, you may be mistaken.. The only thing Camilla has been found guilty of is theft, she has been charged with trafficing, aid and abet, and another charge to-do with the murder i cannot recall at this time… Although Miss krutsky has pleaded not guilty .. The only thing however she has been found guilty of is stealing.. Everything else awaits trial which at the moment is looking to be a few years 1 at the minimum untill homicide detectives are ready to move forward with their case..

I beleive you all sit back and wait untill passing further judgement on this girl especially, as you are wrong on all accounts about her, she does continue to pay rent .. And has deffinatly not grown up around crime her whole life, so read into it a little more before judging

Your right J-A-O, Camilla is not living in a guvvy place, she is living in a place supplied by a family member, which i’m pretty sure she would not be paying rent at, considering she doesn’t have a job.

I agree that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but i’m sure that the truth will all unravel over the next few months, until Camilla is charged.She deserves a second chance, but she has already blown her second chance by stealing ridiculous amounts of stuff, and continuing to smoke pot when it was part of her bail conditions not to. I’m sure she has quit pot now, as it is part of her new bail conditions to piss in a cup at the polices request, and i’m sure two weeks in lockup would of petrified her enough to at least wake up to herself and realise that she is 20 weeks pregnant, and that perhaps she should think of her child and provide it with some kind of better life than what her mother provided her.

She has not only been found guilty of stealing, she also has been charged with trafficking an illegal substance, but yes, so far that is all she has been found guilty of.

She may not have been brought up by drug addicts, but its well known that she is close with her mother, and certainly has had the influence of criminal behaviour around her all her life.I hope she has realised that she has made mistakes, at least she has the chance to change her ways & better her life, unlike Andre,who, your right was a well respected member of the community, had a highly respected job, loving family & friends that are left behind with no choice because these thugs took that away from him.

As for her being ‘close’ to Andre, if as a friend of hers this is what you have been told, you seriously need your head read. She may have been the only one of the 3 that actually communicated with him a few times in the short time they both lived in the apartments, all that tells me is she is the only one that could of known vital information for the robbery to happen. It also interests me to know how you know exactly how much, and how many people he was dealing to.

Your right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion & the only thing we can really do is wait until all the evidence comes out and hopefully some justice is served to the LeDinh family when all 3 of these low lifes are charged.

I happen to know Camilla and you all keep saying she would be in goverment housing, although she isn’t, so if you are so worried about your tax-payer money you can put your minds at ease

I beleive in the known fact that you are innocent until proven guilty, you should all jump on someone else’s bandwagon before you look like fools dissing and judging a young mum-to-be when it comes to trial…And miss krutsky is hopefully aqquitted of the charges laid apon her.. She deserves a second chance just like you would give your own son’s or daughters..

One cannot explain the stealing charges and although it was said to be due to “stress” as said in court i’m pretty sure that is what her lawyer came up with, not miss krutsky herself.. And although you all read the paper, 99% of you were not in court to hear the other reasons, funnily enough they were not publisied .. Nonetheless there is absolutly no excuse for the stealing, but if you want to rip into her personal life, that would be the only thing you could comment on rightfully, seeing as it is the only thing she has been found guilty of, i also happen to know camilla has quit marijuana and intends on changing her life and has no intentions of stealing again, wether or not that is the case, only time will tell. But the girl deserves the chance to show us she can change her ways.

And not only was she not brought up with her drug addicted mother, nor her drug addicted and crime affiliated step father, but her well respected grandmother who is a RN LVL 2 nurse at a well respected hospital..So maybe she did learn some important life values … perhaps enough to save her and her unborn child that you are all so quick to judge.

Sometimes you must just realise people make mistakes, stealing is something nearly everyone has done atleast once in there life, admitted or not! and either learnt from or not, lets just watch and see if she has learnt.

Also why would somebody ‘aid and abet’ and ‘conceal a crime’ when the young girl herself was close to the late Andre le dihn.. Who himself was a upstanding member of society working in the immigration office dealing pounds and pounds of marijuana to many different people daily/weekly .. Nobody deserves an early death .. Also,not everybody is perfect.

Everyone has their right to an opinion..

Camilla’s mum. Does anyone remember “The Base” nightclub 15 years ago. There was an “opinionated”, “nasty”, door bitch that worked there. Would she be Camilla’s mum? She was married to some soccer player for a while.

If so I can understand why Camilla might be a bit messed up. If not I apologise to the ONDB’s I may have offended.

There is a computer model of drug use, hosted by one of our universities. They collect drug use data. When they model increased police and resources they get no discernible difference in drug supply, use and price. These are only statistics but they fit with what I see happening.

What ever your moral stance the war on drugs just maintains the status quo.

Drugs are bad, mmmkay?

Unless they are really good quality, then you spend less for more high!

Riot Police said :

I blame a lot of these problems on the location of Canberra, if it was located next to the beach then all “those people” would be surfing all day long sitting on the beach smoking. Be a bit like Byron bay with the added bonus of having hot swedish backpackers working in the brothels instead of the junkie mummies we have at the moment.

You must be high.

Jethro said :

Tooks said :

Jethro said :

Criminalisation of cannabis clearly hasn’t worked. Decriminalisation hasn’t either. I can’t see how a well regulated legal industry could be any worse.

I wonder how much yesterday’s raids in Victoria cost the taxpayer?

You do realise that those raids prevented the offenders from using their cannabis profits to source and ship huge amounts of heroin into this country, don’t you?

Also the perpetrators have allegedly made hundreds of millions of dollars since they’ve been in ‘business’.

I was aware of this. To me this provides more weight to the legalise and regulate cannabis argument. Legalisation and regulation of cannabis would help break the nexus between organised crime and cannabis production and sale. At the moment it appears that this crime gang would not have been able to fund their other operations without money from cannabis sales.

Similarly, this case appears to demonstrate how the ‘gateway theory’ of cannabis works. People who purchase are necessarily exposed to criminals who are often dealing in other, more destructive, substances. Again, legalisation would help break this link.

I am not arguing that cannabis is a completely safe or socially harmless drug. However, I am being pragmatic and acknowledging that current approaches do not limit supply or demand, do not stop anyone who wants to use from accessing cannabis, but do have the negative effects of pushing cannabis sale and consumption into the realm of organised crime, with the side effects I outlined above.

Before you use the argument back to me that by my logic you should legalise everything, because that would then remove organised crime, I have this to say. You need to weigh up the benefits and disadvantages of legalisation versus criminalisation. Society as done this with gambling, alcohol and prostitution. We haven’t regulation completely right with any of these, but the situation is better than it was when these industries were controlled by organised crime. In other situations, the benefits of legalisation and regulation do not outweigh the benefits of criminalisation. Weapons dealing is an area where I believe this to be the case.

Nice to see a thought out and well articulated reply.

You make some good points, but the fact is, if crooks weren’t making money from cannabis crops, then they’d be making money from meth labs, or heroin distribution, or meaow meaow etc.

Do we then start legalising the harder drugs? There is no perfect solution to the illegal drug problem, but I’d agree that we need to keep looking at ways to come to a better solution. Maybe sometime down the track, legalisation will be a part of that solution; I’m yet to be convinced though.

georgesgenitals said :

vg said :

“and if addiction was treated as a medical problem instead of a criminal one.”

Remember we live in Canberra, where it is treated that way. And hasn’t that just worked out a treat

And when users are stealing to support their habit, it IS a criminal problem.

Did you understand the word ‘sarcasm’ when first taught it?

Just to chuck in another view, one of the active ‘ingredient’ of cannabis is cannabidiol – recently found to reduce symptoms of acute schizophrenia as well as a currently prescribed antipsychotic (amisulpride) and with fewer side effects…let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater…(no allusion intended…)

http://www.ukcia.org/research/EffectOfCannabidiolOnSZSymptoms.pdf

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VM1-4VTWCHB-7C&_user=10&_coverDate=12/31/2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1555635782&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b4f7048779ad00409641196d77e90804&searchtype=a

I blame a lot of these problems on the location of Canberra, if it was located next to the beach then all “those people” would be surfing all day long sitting on the beach smoking. Be a bit like Byron bay with the added bonus of having hot swedish backpackers working in the brothels instead of the junkie mummies we have at the moment.

I’ll bet that little Milly has a nice Guvvy housing set up.

Gosh I remember I used to look after Milly years ago when she was this plucky little 4 year old attending the Child care centre where I worked. She was the funniest little thing. She was living with her grandparents because of her mothers drug problem even back then! Her mother used to turn up every now and then with a different boyfriend and try to play with her but I think was too “wasted” to even comprehend what time of the day it was. It breaks my heart to see what has happened to her. It’s not too late to break the cycle Milly. Don’t let your little one be led into a life your mother led you into… xo

vg said :

“and if addiction was treated as a medical problem instead of a criminal one.”

Remember we live in Canberra, where it is treated that way. And hasn’t that just worked out a treat

And when users are stealing to support their habit, it IS a criminal problem.

“and if addiction was treated as a medical problem instead of a criminal one.”

Remember we live in Canberra, where it is treated that way. And hasn’t that just worked out a treat

Oh, and I’m with you on the whole bail thing JB. Despite my argument that Miss Krutsky is a victim (which I have not moved on) she still clearly does not appear to be a ‘safe risk’ when it comes to bail… how many times must one break bail conditions before being refused bail???)

DJ said :

Disappear overnight? Seriously? I don’t think you know what you are talking about. How would they pay for anything – broadly speaking addicts struggle to maintain regular employment as a result of the addiction. The criminal cycle addicts are trapped within is fed by the addiction not the legality of what they are doing.

There is no excuse – time to grow up… yes.

Mo – I think you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The problems that this thread relates to aren’t caused by addiction, though that’s a problem for the addict, they’re caused because illegality makes drugs so expensive that the addict has to steal and rob to feed their habit.

Make the drugs legal and affordable (notice I didn’t say “uncontrolled”) and yes – crime caused by addicts will disappear overnight. Pushers will go out of business, gaols will have plenty of room to house real criminals, cops won’t have to waste their time chasing addicts and dealers, and hospital emergency departments will see major reductions in emergencies.

If you think I’m wrong, tell me how.

Tooks said :

Jethro said :

Criminalisation of cannabis clearly hasn’t worked. Decriminalisation hasn’t either. I can’t see how a well regulated legal industry could be any worse.

I wonder how much yesterday’s raids in Victoria cost the taxpayer?

You do realise that those raids prevented the offenders from using their cannabis profits to source and ship huge amounts of heroin into this country, don’t you?

Also the perpetrators have allegedly made hundreds of millions of dollars since they’ve been in ‘business’.

I was aware of this. To me this provides more weight to the legalise and regulate cannabis argument. Legalisation and regulation of cannabis would help break the nexus between organised crime and cannabis production and sale. At the moment it appears that this crime gang would not have been able to fund their other operations without money from cannabis sales.

Similarly, this case appears to demonstrate how the ‘gateway theory’ of cannabis works. People who purchase are necessarily exposed to criminals who are often dealing in other, more destructive, substances. Again, legalisation would help break this link.

I am not arguing that cannabis is a completely safe or socially harmless drug. However, I am being pragmatic and acknowledging that current approaches do not limit supply or demand, do not stop anyone who wants to use from accessing cannabis, but do have the negative effects of pushing cannabis sale and consumption into the realm of organised crime, with the side effects I outlined above.

Before you use the argument back to me that by my logic you should legalise everything, because that would then remove organised crime, I have this to say. You need to weigh up the benefits and disadvantages of legalisation versus criminalisation. Society as done this with gambling, alcohol and prostitution. We haven’t regulation completely right with any of these, but the situation is better than it was when these industries were controlled by organised crime. In other situations, the benefits of legalisation and regulation do not outweigh the benefits of criminalisation. Weapons dealing is an area where I believe this to be the case.

I opened this thread knowing I’d see two things – Pitchforks & Burning Torches.
RA never fails to deliver….

Deref “Most of the problems “caused” by drugs would disappear overnight”

No they wouldn’t. Most of the problems caused by drugs will disappear a couple of months after the druguser stops using.

Disappear overnight? Seriously? I don’t think you know what you are talking about. How would they pay for anything – broadly speaking addicts struggle to maintain regular employment as a result of the addiction. The criminal cycle addicts are trapped within is fed by the addiction not the legality of what they are doing.

There is no excuse – time to grow up… yes.

Jethro said :

Criminalisation of cannabis clearly hasn’t worked. Decriminalisation hasn’t either. I can’t see how a well regulated legal industry could be any worse.

I wonder how much yesterday’s raids in Victoria cost the taxpayer?

+1

Most of the problems “caused” by drugs would disappear overnight they were available safely and legally and if addiction was treated as a medical problem instead of a criminal one.

Crims would still be crims, but they’d no longer have the defence of having to feed their thousand dollar a day habit through crime.

Isn’t it time we grew up?

RE: Breaching bail conditions related to murder charges, tampering with witnesses, etc…
Didn’t Bec Massey recently set precedent for how these things weren’t behaviours worth penalising, and are instead the kind of individual efforts that our courts encouraged, through more lenient bail rewards?

Instead we should be glad for her, now that instead of being on lockdown, she’s sharing the dimly-lit streets and crowded public spaces that your and her taxpaying efforts have helped build.
Why are you all so keen to distrust her intentions, since she’s an upstanding member of the community again, and can put forth her own version of events, can get close to people while blending into crowds, was potentially provided a list of people to stay away from because their views differed…
What could possibly go wrong?

Afterall, even if preliminary investigations identified her as a suspect, charges were laid, her family are all suspects, and threats were allegedly made against current witnesses, she is (notionally) innocent until proven guilty.
Anything short of rolling over backwards to satisfy every possible interpretation of the Human Rights Act in an offender’s favour, and totally giving her the benefit of all doubts would be potentially discriminatory, rights of victims or innocent bystanders be damned.

PBO said :

justme1946 said :

Why not declare war on drug dealers and get them off the streets and out of our community. Why aren’t the police doing more to clean up the problem and apprehend drug dealers. Are all burglaries just the work of some demented idiots who have nothing better to do or could they be related to the need to steal to pay for drugs.

If you knew your neighbour was dealing in drugs what would you do – encourage their activities or dob them in to the authorities. Think about it so many of “youth problems” stem from the wider availability of drugs and the stupidity of people not having the courage to put them out of business.

Our local politicians should be held accountable for their stupidity in de-criminalising marijuana. Couple that to the misguided proclamations of the “intelligentsia” who advocate legalisation of marijuana – what is our society becoming?

Do we really believe that marijuana is a “safe” drug? can we trust our politicians to make the right choices for our society or are we once again being led by our noses by the “vocal minority” clamouring the pharmaceutical benefits of a drug which through selective cloning is more potent than that which fostered the “flower generation”

Whoa, overtones of the Government mans speech in Reefer madness!

I guess that it might be true…. Women cry for it, Men die for it. Mary-ju-wanna, the assassin of youth.

Its an old speech but there seems to be a pattern. Commentators calling for more action yet it already exsists.

“Why not declare war on drug dealers and get them off the streets and out of our community.”
War on drugs we have. (an american political construct ).

“Why aren’t the police doing more to clean up the problem and apprehend drug dealers.”
They are. They have the greatest arsenal of equipment, manpower and new laws, ever….

“Are all burglaries just the work of some demented idiots who have nothing better to do or could they be related to the need to steal to pay for drugs.”
No…..yes …but nothing we didn’t already know.

“what is our society becoming?”
Your society is becoming repetitive, harsh, cruel, greedy, cheap and stupid. Some of us are glad not to be part of it.

Is there an election coming………..

colourful sydney racing identity said :

FedUpWithBogans said :

Give them a jail term, and after that, put them in the army or work for the dole – no more free handouts for the rest of their useless lives.

Give who a jai term?

Angry rednecks?

FedUpWithBogans said :

Give them a jail term, and after that, put them in the army or work for the dole – no more free handouts for the rest of their useless lives.

Biggest problem with that plan is the Army really don’t want a lot of drop kick ex con dope fiends.

Maybe we can forceably enrol them in the french foreign legion?

justme1946 said :

Why not declare war on drug dealers and get them off the streets and out of our community. Why aren’t the police doing more to clean up the problem and apprehend drug dealers. Are all burglaries just the work of some demented idiots who have nothing better to do or could they be related to the need to steal to pay for drugs.

If you knew your neighbour was dealing in drugs what would you do – encourage their activities or dob them in to the authorities. Think about it so many of “youth problems” stem from the wider availability of drugs and the stupidity of people not having the courage to put them out of business.

Our local politicians should be held accountable for their stupidity in de-criminalising marijuana. Couple that to the misguided proclamations of the “intelligentsia” who advocate legalisation of marijuana – what is our society becoming?

Do we really believe that marijuana is a “safe” drug? can we trust our politicians to make the right choices for our society or are we once again being led by our noses by the “vocal minority” clamouring the pharmaceutical benefits of a drug which through selective cloning is more potent than that which fostered the “flower generation”

Whoa, overtones of the Government mans speech in Reefer madness! I guess that it might be true…. Women cry for it, Men die for it. Mary-ju-wanna, the assassin of youth.

FedUpWithBogans said :

Give them a jail term, and after that, put them in the army or work for the dole – no more free handouts for the rest of their useless lives.

Give who a jai term?

Jethro said :

Criminalisation of cannabis clearly hasn’t worked. Decriminalisation hasn’t either. I can’t see how a well regulated legal industry could be any worse.

I wonder how much yesterday’s raids in Victoria cost the taxpayer?

You do realise that those raids prevented the offenders from using their cannabis profits to source and ship huge amounts of heroin into this country, don’t you?

Also the perpetrators have allegedly made hundreds of millions of dollars since they’ve been in ‘business’.

It’s called ‘dope’ for a reason…

Give them a jail term, and after that, put them in the army or work for the dole – no more free handouts for the rest of their useless lives.

Criminalisation of cannabis clearly hasn’t worked. Decriminalisation hasn’t either. I can’t see how a well regulated legal industry could be any worse.

I wonder how much yesterday’s raids in Victoria cost the taxpayer?

justme1946 said :

Do we really believe that marijuana is a “safe” drug?

Certainly not. But anecdotal evidence (small sample size – one observer – me) shows that people who have excessive marijuana habits are not effected any worse (and often less so) then people with excessive alcohol problems. Considerably better off then people addicted to any of the “harder” drugs.

In addition, I have many friends who have spent many more thousands of dollars on their perfectly legal addictions (fast cars, fast bikes, fast women) then a pot head ever will.

So no, it isn’t “safe”, except that nothing is. When was the last time you felt safe clad in lycra at a 4WD convention?

Jim Jones said :

You will not be able to see his eyes because of Tea-Shades, but his knuckles will be white from inner tension, and his pants will be crusted with semen from constantly jacking off when he can’t find a rape victim. He will stagger and babble when questioned. He will not respect your authority. The Dope Fiend fears nothing. He will attack for no reason, with every weapon at his command — including yours.

Sounds like my year 9 English teacher.

You will not be able to see his eyes because of Tea-Shades, but his knuckles will be white from inner tension, and his pants will be crusted with semen from constantly jacking off when he can’t find a rape victim. He will stagger and babble when questioned. He will not respect your authority. The Dope Fiend fears nothing. He will attack for no reason, with every weapon at his command — including yours.

justme1946 said :

Why not declare war on drug dealers and get them off the streets and out of our community. Why aren’t the police doing more to clean up the problem and apprehend drug dealers. Are all burglaries just the work of some demented idiots who have nothing better to do or could they be related to the need to steal to pay for drugs.

If you knew your neighbour was dealing in drugs what would you do – encourage their activities or dob them in to the authorities. Think about it so many of “youth problems” stem from the wider availability of drugs and the stupidity of people not having the courage to put them out of business.

Our local politicians should be held accountable for their stupidity in de-criminalising marijuana. Couple that to the misguided proclamations of the “intelligentsia” who advocate legalisation of marijuana – what is our society becoming?

Do we really believe that marijuana is a “safe” drug? can we trust our politicians to make the right choices for our society or are we once again being led by our noses by the “vocal minority” clamouring the pharmaceutical benefits of a drug which through selective cloning is more potent than that which fostered the “flower generation”

You won’t win here with that argument.

justme1946 said :

Why not declare war on drug dealers and get them off the streets and out of our community. Why aren’t the police doing more to clean up the problem and apprehend drug dealers. Are all burglaries just the work of some demented idiots who have nothing better to do or could they be related to the need to steal to pay for drugs.

If you knew your neighbour was dealing in drugs what would you do – encourage their activities or dob them in to the authorities. Think about it so many of “youth problems” stem from the wider availability of drugs and the stupidity of people not having the courage to put them out of business.

Our local politicians should be held accountable for their stupidity in de-criminalising marijuana. Couple that to the misguided proclamations of the “intelligentsia” who advocate legalisation of marijuana – what is our society becoming?

Do we really believe that marijuana is a “safe” drug? can we trust our politicians to make the right choices for our society or are we once again being led by our noses by the “vocal minority” clamouring the pharmaceutical benefits of a drug which through selective cloning is more potent than that which fostered the “flower generation”

*gasp* prohibition – what a great idea. Surely that has not failed everywhere it has been implemented…

If you really want to reduce crime rates you would legalise drugs and make them available on prescription supplied by the government.

justme1946 said :

Why not declare war on drug dealers and get them off the streets and out of our community. Why aren’t the police doing more to clean up the problem and apprehend drug dealers. Are all burglaries just the work of some demented idiots who have nothing better to do or could they be related to the need to steal to pay for drugs.

If you knew your neighbour was dealing in drugs what would you do – encourage their activities or dob them in to the authorities. Think about it so many of “youth problems” stem from the wider availability of drugs and the stupidity of people not having the courage to put them out of business.

Our local politicians should be held accountable for their stupidity in de-criminalising marijuana. Couple that to the misguided proclamations of the “intelligentsia” who advocate legalisation of marijuana – what is our society becoming?

Do we really believe that marijuana is a “safe” drug? can we trust our politicians to make the right choices for our society or are we once again being led by our noses by the “vocal minority” clamouring the pharmaceutical benefits of a drug which through selective cloning is more potent than that which fostered the “flower generation”

War on drugs; there’s a new idea. There’s no way it could ever fail!

Why not declare war on drug dealers and get them off the streets and out of our community. Why aren’t the police doing more to clean up the problem and apprehend drug dealers. Are all burglaries just the work of some demented idiots who have nothing better to do or could they be related to the need to steal to pay for drugs.

If you knew your neighbour was dealing in drugs what would you do – encourage their activities or dob them in to the authorities. Think about it so many of “youth problems” stem from the wider availability of drugs and the stupidity of people not having the courage to put them out of business.

Our local politicians should be held accountable for their stupidity in de-criminalising marijuana. Couple that to the misguided proclamations of the “intelligentsia” who advocate legalisation of marijuana – what is our society becoming?

Do we really believe that marijuana is a “safe” drug? can we trust our politicians to make the right choices for our society or are we once again being led by our noses by the “vocal minority” clamouring the pharmaceutical benefits of a drug which through selective cloning is more potent than that which fostered the “flower generation”

put her in gaol!!! and her defence layer!
She,s a theif, A junkie and a muderer!
If it looks like shit
And smells like shit
ITS PROBABLY SHIT!
Send her off to the AMC. at least she wont need to use her own deep fryer there!
3 meals a day, and all the drugs and play station any teenager could wish for.

OK PB: I will fess up. It was actually a play on a quip from Gough Whitlam who when being heckled by a pro-lifer about his views on abortion responded: In your case it should be retrospective.

But yes, of course you should take everything literally. Sheesh you must be a barrel of fun…

So anyone who disagrees with your views does not have the right to be born, yup, got it.

As I said, Joe would be proud….

The Great Purge was a series of campaigns of political repression and persecution in the Soviet Union orchestrated by Joseph Stalin in 1936–1938. It involved a large-scale purge of the Communist Party and Government officials, repression of peasants, Red Army leadership, and the persecution of unaffiliated persons, characterized by widespread police surveillance, widespread suspicion of “saboteurs”, imprisonment, and executions.

Pommy bastard said :

The irony of those people who espouse trendy lefty views wanting others to be compulsory sterilised, nay euthanised, for daring to have negative views on criminals, is just too sweet for words…

Stalin would be proud of you.

Oh grow up. I am not suggesting that GraigT be euthanised for having negative views on criminals. I am suggesting that we go back in time and stop him from being conceived. And, no, it is not because of his ‘negative views on criminals’ it is because I disagree with him. Got it?

was that so hard?

The irony of those people who espouse trendy lefty views wanting others to be compulsory sterilised, nay euthanised, for daring to have negative views on criminals, is just too sweet for words…

Stalin would be proud of you.

Interestingly enough…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11545519

Drug addicts across the UK are being offered money to be sterilised by an American charity.

Project Prevention is offering to pay £200 to any drug user in London, Glasgow, Bristol, Leicester and parts of Wales who agrees to be operated on.

The first person in the UK to accept the cash is drug addict “John” from Leicester who says he “should never be a father”.

fgzk said :

GraigT I would support compulsory sterilisation of you and your relatives. Just for consistency sake.

Retrospectively would be nice.

GraigT I would support compulsory sterilisation of you and your relatives. Just for consistency sake.

CraigT said :

I’m interested by all the bleeding hearts posting here.

Let’s see if we can test your intellects for consistency:
if a drug-addict criminal’s child is automatically a “victim” by virtue of the circumstances she is born into, do you support compulsory sterilisation of criminals in order to save future “victims”?

Or do you in fact support the creation of these “victims”?

Sterilising people is ridiculous and reeks of 1930s style eugenics programmes.

However, I did say in one my earlier posts that I don’t have a problem with people like this having their children removed from them at birth. There are plenty of good families out there desperate for children and plenty of dodgy families who have absolutely no business bringing children into the world.

But by your post I take it that you don’t think that the unborn child in this story is a victim?

I love these great stories. Gets the people going. Everyone assuming they have the right to voice an opinion, which they do. It is just funny to watch how informed people think they are about something. Still amazes me.

I’m interested by all the bleeding hearts posting here.

Let’s see if we can test your intellects for consistency:
if a drug-addict criminal’s child is automatically a “victim” by virtue of the circumstances she is born into, do you support compulsory sterilisation of criminals in order to save future “victims”?

Or do you in fact support the creation of these “victims”?

Jethro said :

Pommy bastard said :

Hard-Working-Teenage-Mum said :

Back off. Half these comments are speculation and bullying.

I beg to disagree,calling a criminal “a criminal” and hoping they get just deserts for their crime is neither bullying nor speculation.

Hard-Working-Teenage-Mum said :

People can be a victim of circumstance.

There is no “circum,stance” which should lead to theft, unless one is starving and steals food to feed oneslf or ones kin. The theft of “DVDs, craft items, a deep fryer and baby clothing”, while already being on bail for other charges is just theft, not circumstance.

This is where you and I disagree, PB. I would argue that this girl is a victim of circumstance.

She was born into an obviously dysfunctional family where criminal behaviour is [allegedly] not only accepted, but would have been modelled to her from a young age. Whilst I would not go so far as saying that her path in life was predetermined at birth, it was certainly aided by the circumstances into which she was born.

Let’s do a little thought experiment.

1. Is the unborn child of Miss Krutsky to be viewed as an innocent in all of this?
2. If, upon birth, the child of Miss Krutsky is permitted to stay with her, is it likely that it will be exposed to anti-social and criminal behaviour?
3. Is this young child going to learn about the world through its exposure to this behaviour?
4. Is it likely that, as a result of this, the child will grow up to be someone who does not have the respect for society’s laws?

If you answered yes to these questions then you would have to agree with me that this child is a victim of circumstance. If it grows up to be a criminal it will still be a victim of circumstance.

This is not to argue that people like Miss Krutsky should not face the consequences of their actions. But to simply look at their crimes through a simple black and white lens is not going to help either.

But looking at things in black and white is so much easier than actually, you know, using your brain. And, lets face it, there’s nothing like partaking in lynch-mob mentality to make you feel superior to others; you get to act all self-righteous and say things about how bad ‘criminals’ are and act as if people who broke the law are evil lowlife scum and the world would be better if they just pulled themselves up by the bootstraps … ah, good times!!!

Hard working teenage mum-
people can be a victim of stupidity too. She has had chances in life, she has screwed them up. Your saying they should let her out, hope that she gets off drugs, if she doesnt lets just hope she doesn’t kill another innocent victim?

Camilla Krutsky (Krusty):

An 18 year old pregnant low-life pot head. Going down exactly the same path as her scummy mother & her partner. I have a small amount of sympathy for her because she has obviously been raised into a life of drugs & crime, however now she is bringing a baby into exactly the same kind of life. It’s not enough for her to be facing serious charges against her, she then goes & shoplifts, and uses the excuse of being ‘stressed’. She is stressed? imagine how Andres poor family feels knowing that this girl & her family had something to do with the horrible way he had his life taken from him? She deserves to go to jail, and the baby deserves a better life ie. being taken aay from her at birth & put into a family that are not no hoper criminal losers. Andre was a kind, caring person & didn’t deserve what was done to him by these creeps. Lock them all up, the world will be a better place without them.

boo boo said :

Boo hoo… Lock her up.

What a fantastic idea!!! She can go into the ACT’s AMC, get herself some hepatitis, some new drug addictions and if she’s really lucky, get on the methadone program … I don’t have any better suggestions for her or her child’s “future”.

“Well we can agree that they should face the consequences of their action at least. But calling someone a “victim” is unhelpful, if it si used to mitigate the personal responsibility involved.”

It would be used to help the victim understand her own actions.

“4. Is it likely that, as a result of this, the child will grow up to be someone who does not have the respect for society’s laws?”

I’ve seen this happen. The children grow up and become lawyers and economists.

Jethro said :

This is where you and I disagree, PB. I would argue that this girl is a victim of circumstance.

She was born into an obviously dysfunctional family where criminal behaviour is [allegedly] not only accepted, but would have been modelled to her from a young age. Whilst I would not go so far as saying that her path in life was predetermined at birth, it was certainly aided by the circumstances into which she was born.

Let’s do a little thought experiment.

1. Is the unborn child of Miss Krutsky to be viewed as an innocent in all of this?
2. If, upon birth, the child of Miss Krutsky is permitted to stay with her, is it likely that it will be exposed to anti-social and criminal behaviour?
3. Is this young child going to learn about the world through its exposure to this behaviour?
4. Is it likely that, as a result of this, the child will grow up to be someone who does not have the respect for society’s laws?

If you answered yes to these questions then you would have to agree with me that this child is a victim of circumstance. If it grows up to be a criminal it will still be a victim of circumstance.

This is not to argue that people like Miss Krutsky should not face the consequences of their actions. But to simply look at their crimes through a simple black and white lens is not going to help either.

Well we can agree that they should face the consequences of their action at least. But calling someone a “victim” is unhelpful, if it si used to mitigate the personal responsibility involved..

Hey, most/all pregnant women get cravings of some sort – Camilla was just craving a little shoplifting!

Pommy bastard said :

Hard-Working-Teenage-Mum said :

Back off. Half these comments are speculation and bullying.

I beg to disagree,calling a criminal “a criminal” and hoping they get just deserts for their crime is neither bullying nor speculation.

Hard-Working-Teenage-Mum said :

People can be a victim of circumstance.

There is no “circum,stance” which should lead to theft, unless one is starving and steals food to feed oneslf or ones kin. The theft of “DVDs, craft items, a deep fryer and baby clothing”, while already being on bail for other charges is just theft, not circumstance.

This is where you and I disagree, PB. I would argue that this girl is a victim of circumstance.

She was born into an obviously dysfunctional family where criminal behaviour is [allegedly] not only accepted, but would have been modelled to her from a young age. Whilst I would not go so far as saying that her path in life was predetermined at birth, it was certainly aided by the circumstances into which she was born.

Let’s do a little thought experiment.

1. Is the unborn child of Miss Krutsky to be viewed as an innocent in all of this?
2. If, upon birth, the child of Miss Krutsky is permitted to stay with her, is it likely that it will be exposed to anti-social and criminal behaviour?
3. Is this young child going to learn about the world through its exposure to this behaviour?
4. Is it likely that, as a result of this, the child will grow up to be someone who does not have the respect for society’s laws?

If you answered yes to these questions then you would have to agree with me that this child is a victim of circumstance. If it grows up to be a criminal it will still be a victim of circumstance.

This is not to argue that people like Miss Krutsky should not face the consequences of their actions. But to simply look at their crimes through a simple black and white lens is not going to help either.

Hard-Working-Teenage-Mum said :

Back off. Half these comments are speculation and bullying.

I beg to disagree,calling a criminal “a criminal” and hoping they get just deserts for their crime is neither bullying nor speculation.

Hard-Working-Teenage-Mum said :

People can be a victim of circumstance.

There is no “circum,stance” which should lead to theft, unless one is starving and steals food to feed oneslf or ones kin. The theft of “DVDs, craft items, a deep fryer and baby clothing”, while already being on bail for other charges is just theft, not circumstance.

Poor Andre Le Dinh ! a Purveyor of drugs and dependancy. Another one bites the dust

Criminal then, just like mum.

@hard Working Teenage Mum. Or a bucket of chlorine poured down the front of the jean pool.

CraigT are you saying Camilla is a criminal. Do we know if she has been convicted of a criminal act yet? You might have to retract your cynicism.

The chip fryer seems to be the innocent victim here.

Yeah – you bullies!

How dare you criticise a criminal! Shame on you!

You should show criminals respect.
It’s not their fault they’ve found themselves the wrong side of the law.
It could just as easily have been you trying to steal a chip-fryer, so who are you to criticise?

Back off. Half these comments are speculation and bullying.
People can be a victim of circumstance. The ACT is struggling with its younger generation. Many are fantastic, (i like to think of myself as one of those) but we need to help everyone to have th same chances in life.

Bullying will not help her or change anything now. Energy focased on rehabilitation and future life choices so she can have a steady job, assist with any addictions and be a responsible parent is what is needed.

shoot em

las said :

Belco is barely above riverside plaza these days.

Riverside is far nicer, tidier and less ratty than Belco. Over the past 10 or so years, Belco really has slid into the gutter.

PB Have you got fifty bucks. I haven’t seen fifty bucks from you yet. If your paying when can I pick up the money. Some of us would probably like to keep you out of the system too. Especially me as you haven’t paid me yet but keep harping on about how you are paying. Where is my money….

How do you keep a person out of a society?

amazing how many young people suddenly become pregnant when a prison term is imminent.

just throwing that one out there

Genie in the bottle, with a puff of smoke, makes up a something to hate. How cleaver of you. Do we get three wishes. I wish the genie goes back in the bottle. I wish genie grows up and stops hating make-believe constructs, that have not happened.

You don’t have to live like Camilla. Be happy.

Jethro said :

I’m not arguing that we should be doing that. I’m just saying we shouldn’t all be jumping on the ‘burn her at the stake’ bandwagon. There seems to be very little compassion shown on this forum a lot of the time.

Very few have jumped on the “burn her at the stake” bandwagon. However, many here, and in society as a whole, are fed up with seeing this sort of story, and knowing that in the end we are the ones who will pay.

Some of us would prefer to pay to keep her out of society, rather than fund her to remain in it, to continue her life of easy thieving and easy breeding.

Not sure if everyone is aware, but the baby bonus is now 13 x $400 fortnightly payments. Still a free $5k obviously, but doesn’t quite generate the same spending spree as previously(unless they are layby-ing their drugs, alcohol and plasmas??).

First off;

Spartacus said :

Mothy said :

I’m stuck on the logistics of it. How do you shoplift a deep fryer? Or was that the bridge too far?

1 Condom and alot of lube.

Wow. If gospeedygo made Rangi choke on his apple, I’d hate to see the digestive pyrotechnics this inspired. Though I might point out in response she’s pregnant at 18 – so I doubt she’s got a supply of those handy.

Meanwhile Jethro – you need to not view it as Frenzied Vitriol and instead just look at it as some people’s theories and attempts at fitting events like these into a world view. Sometimes that world view is a little skewed to a belief that, given the same opportunities, they and any other straight thinking folk would operate in society with a little more of a sense of propriety than the example before them.

i.e. (allegedly) dealing drugs , (allegedly) robbing your neighbors and (allegedly) covering up (alleged) murder for mommy and new-daddy is bad, m’kay?

After that, your motivations for a misdemeanor like shoplifting while on bail are, in the scheme of things, kind of a moot point. For those who’ve never had the chutzpah to just pick up something they want in a store and make off with it, that sense of entitlement can seem something of a foreign concept. Though it does fit nicely with the free house/free money future path Genie has laid out – since you’re going to be given stuff you didn’t work for for the rest of your life, I guess you’ve already got a pretty loose view of the exchange of money for goods and services.

But I was toying with this idea previously with the case of a recent let’s say UNNAMEABLE crim who committed a number of crimes while on bail – MAYBE THEY WANT TO GET CAUGHT. I don’t buy the whole “I was stressed” argument as precursor to the “therefore I stole” conclusion, but instead I see it as either a “hey, i got away with X, I must also be able to get away with Y”, or maybe just maybe its a case of “I do actually recognize I shouldn’t be out in society, and I need to act out MORE so that people realize this”.

I mean, the deep fryer is the clincher for me. Sure, shoplift some baby items, some craft goods, some DVDs, whatever. That stuff is all believable. Shoplift something that doesn’t fit under your jumper (or elsewhere) and you’re in “cry for help” territory ’cause you’re just asking to get noticed by counter staff and you’d have to know you’re being filmed on security cameras.

Then again, maybe they are just dumb criminals. But that’s where my benefit of the doubt kicks in. I’m prepared to accept that maybe they are motivated by something more. I just don’t subscribe to excusing/forgiving things just because of a starting point somewhere behind the 8 ball.

sorry re my post – for mishandling the quotes and saying ‘accidental execution of the guilty’ instead of ‘accidental execution of the innocent’.

cmdwedge said :

watto23 said :

Another reason to get rid of the baby bonus. To the desperate, stupid lowlifes that money looks like a million bucks to them. In fact most welfare should be things like vouchers IMO.

The moment that Federal Labor decided to means test the baby bonus, it became welfare. Plain and simple. Pay the poor to breed.

The problem with policies like this is its too unpopular to get rid of them……
Should never have been bought in. Better ways to stimulate birth rates, like making it cheaper to have a child, with free medical and education rather than throw $5k to people to buy their alcohol, drugs and plasmas……

Pommy bastard said :

Jethro said :

Yep, and so we give her a home at our expense, give her free money for the rest of her life, pay an army of do-gooding social workers to mitigate her every care, let her off her every breach of the laws.

And that breaks the cycle, how exactly?

Not sure what PB is offering as an alternative which will break the cycle? Sadly, with that family upbringing, most of the damage is done, and done deep, so she’s probably destined for decades on the Corrections Carousel.

The problem – on the one hand, going in and out of prison will just alienate her even more from mainstream society and ensure that all her future character development and socialisation is done at the AMC Finishing School with Moms Massey and anyone else from the Canberra Underbelly (See Ivan Slavich’s Movember fundraising event theme)…and on the other, if she gets off – the inevitable laughing at the cops and the courts, seeing them as weak, ineffectual and deserving of her Westie contempt, feeling empowered to keep doing crime…

How does not giving her an income stream or a place to live break the cycle? Research shows that lack of stable accommodation in the two years after leaving gaol is one of the strongest factors related to recidivism.

How do we get justice for the murdered man’s family, and appease the outraged hearts of the contributors to this post??

I guess we could go back to execution and live with the certainty of occasional accidental execution of the guilty…or bring back the stocks, lynch mobs, decimation (the old Roman practice of dividing the punished into groups of 10, 9 of them having to execute the 10th).

The point is, there are no simple answers. She should be held accountable, gaoled, and have her legal rights returned to her once she’s done her time, just as any of us would expect and hope for if we ever found ourselves in the docks.

It’s not a perfect system, but then, no other country in the world has found one. Let’s criticise every single aspect of it we can, but remember people like Schappelle Corby and the Bali 5, or 11, or 9 or however many there are. Is that the legal system we want for our Camilla Krutskys and her fellow antisocial creatures?

Genie said :

ConanOfCooma said :

Genie said :

Bet she’ll spend the rest of her life living it up in an undeserved Govie house living off centrelink.

It’s so painful seeing that… Bludging the dole AND living in a house that could go to someone much needier.

EXACTLY ! – I hate it…

rosebud said :

I feel sorry for her. What a terrible start in life for her baby as well.

I feel sorry for Andre’s family and all his friends… He was such a sweet, kind and caring guy back in school. Can’t speak for the last 5-10 years but.

1 even if she did have a bad upbringing that’s no excuse whatsoever to do these things. No matter what your circumstances are in life, ultimately the individual makes their own choices.

Pommy bastard said :

Jethro said :

Finally some more realistic comments from Me no fry and rosebud..

As much as it will pain some of the readers here to hear it, this girl is also a victim.

She clearly got dealt an incredibly crappy hand when it came to parents. Clearly personal responsibility has to come into play, and she has to face the consequences of her actions, but, really, what chance is a kid going to have when she is being raised by a pair of (allegedly) drug dealing killers.

Unfortunately, she is bringing a new child into the world, who will also be a victim. Of course, in 15 years time when that child starts appearing in the news for all the wrong reasons, we can sit in our armchairs and condemn him/her from afar.

Yep, and so we give her a home at our expense, give her free money for the rest of her life, pay an army of do-gooding social workers to mitigate her every care, let her off her every breach of the laws.

And that breaks the cycle, how exactly?

I’m not arguing that we should be doing that. I’m just saying we shouldn’t all be jumping on the ‘burn her at the stake’ bandwagon. There seems to be very little compassion shown on this forum a lot of the time.

How to turn this girl’s life around is anyone’s guess. I certainly am not qualified or in the position to suggest how it is accomplished (although I would be in favour of removing her child from her at birth…. we give WAY too much consideration to the rights of the parents in these situations… and at least removing the child may help break the cycle of intergenerational crime. This girl clearly isn’t capable of looking after herself, let alone a child). I am also against the welfare without responsibility mentality that seems to exist in this country, so definitely do not support giving her a free place to live and free money for the rest of her life (devils finding work for idle hands and all).

I just think the frenzied vitriol that spews forth on this forum fails to take into account that teenagers who get themselves into positions like this have clearly had pretty awful set of circumstances that have led them to where they are.

Mothy said :

I’m stuck on the logistics of it. How do you shoplift a deep fryer? Or was that the bridge too far?

1 Condom and alot of lube.

Surely a candidate for the November Mully Award?

People, pick up
on what I’m puttin’ down now

Welfare mothers
make better lovers

Down at every
Laundromat in town now

Welfare mothers
make better lovers

While they’re washin’
you can hear this sound now

Welfare mothers
make better lovers

Divorcee!

Hard to believe
that love is free now

Welfare mothers
make better lovers

Out on the street
with the whole family now

Welfare mothers
make better lovers

Hard to believe
that love is free now

Welfare mothers
make better lovers

Diiiiiiiiivooooooooooorceeeeeeeeee!

Any better ideas for how to help this teenager from a bad situation, and her innocent yet to be born baby?

Jethro said :

Finally some more realistic comments from Me no fry and rosebud..

As much as it will pain some of the readers here to hear it, this girl is also a victim.

She clearly got dealt an incredibly crappy hand when it came to parents. Clearly personal responsibility has to come into play, and she has to face the consequences of her actions, but, really, what chance is a kid going to have when she is being raised by a pair of (allegedly) drug dealing killers.

Unfortunately, she is bringing a new child into the world, who will also be a victim. Of course, in 15 years time when that child starts appearing in the news for all the wrong reasons, we can sit in our armchairs and condemn him/her from afar.

Yep, and so we give her a home at our expense, give her free money for the rest of her life, pay an army of do-gooding social workers to mitigate her every care, let her off her every breach of the laws.

And that breaks the cycle, how exactly?

ConanOfCooma said :

Genie said :

Bet she’ll spend the rest of her life living it up in an undeserved Govie house living off centrelink.

It’s so painful seeing that… Bludging the dole AND living in a house that could go to someone much needier.

EXACTLY ! – I hate it…

rosebud said :

I feel sorry for her. What a terrible start in life for her baby as well.

I feel sorry for Andre’s family and all his friends… He was such a sweet, kind and caring guy back in school. Can’t speak for the last 5-10 years but.

Amber is not in prison and hasn’t been for some years. I’ ve seen her driving to her mums house every now and then.

Finally some more realistic comments from Me no fry and rosebud..

As much as it will pain some of the readers here to hear it, this girl is also a victim.

She clearly got dealt an incredibly crappy hand when it came to parents. Clearly personal responsibility has to come into play, and she has to face the consequences of her actions, but, really, what chance is a kid going to have when she is being raised by a pair of (allegedly) drug dealing killers.

Unfortunately, she is bringing a new child into the world, who will also be a victim. Of course, in 15 years time when that child starts appearing in the news for all the wrong reasons, we can sit in our armchairs and condemn him/her from afar.

Boo hoo… Lock her up.

I feel sorry for her. What a terrible start in life for her baby as well.

At 18 it’s always possible she could turn her life around, even though the odds seem stacked against that possibility. At 18 she deserves a chance for rehabilitation.

Having said that, her excuse for shoplifting is pure bullshit, though I have no doubt whatsoever that she herself not only believes it but thinks it is a reasonable excuse.

As for Amber Jane Westin, I sincerely hope she is still in prison. When she realises she isn’t the victim in the events that caused the death of an elderly person then perhaps she’s ready to be released.

gospeedygo said :

She isn’t pregnant, that is just a deep fryer.

Thanks heaps, you nearly made me choke on my apple.

Sammy said :

She’s 2010’s Amber Jane Westin

I was wondering if Camilla and Amber know each other – they seem to have so much in common, both being drug fucked losers.

Speaking of Amber, is she out of jail yet?

Poor kid.

watto23 said :

Another reason to get rid of the baby bonus. To the desperate, stupid lowlifes that money looks like a million bucks to them. In fact most welfare should be things like vouchers IMO.

The moment that Federal Labor decided to means test the baby bonus, it became welfare. Plain and simple. Pay the poor to breed.

Genie said :

Bet she’ll spend the rest of her life living it up in an undeserved Govie house living off centrelink.

It’s so painful seeing that… Bludging the dole AND living in a house that could go to someone much needier.

Another reason to get rid of the baby bonus. To the desperate, stupid lowlifes that money looks like a million bucks to them. In fact most welfare should be things like vouchers IMO.

Oh woe is me, I’m 18 and pregnant and up on possible murder charges… might aswell throw in some shoplifting aswell !

Bet she’ll spend the rest of her life living it up in an undeserved Govie house living off centrelink.

Tell me she was barefoot, please…

I unfortunately know her baby daddy, these people should not be allowed to breed…

She’s 2010’s Amber Jane Westin

Pommy bastard
1
Reprobate
1

She isn’t pregnant, that is just a deep fryer.

Oh, the poor girl. Woe is her, for she is pregnant and a criminal.

Big freaking deal. She’s a criminal. I don’t give a you-know-what that she’s pregnant.

fgzk said :

“I%u2019m stuck on the logistics of it. How do you shoplift a deep fryer? Or was that the bridge too far?”

Having once picked up a hitchhiker heading home from a holiday in Berrima, he spent most of the trip explaining how to shoplift stuff. He seemed to favor any large boxes piled up near the front of the shop. Just pick one up on your way out, like you own it. I never got the exact reason for his holiday.

Did you let the hitchhiker get his own bag out of the car boot?

Mothy said :

How do you shoplift a deep fryer?

I assume that you secrete it internally.

Amateur.
You don’t steal the heavy\large bulky items, nor dvds\craft items, nor the traceable small consumer electronics.
The easier shoplifting for profit is in regularly selling secondhand books to Beaky’s.

and meet her mother and step father
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/macquarie-woman-37-charged-over-murder/1993567.aspx

giving the massey mob a run for their money aren’t they

“I%u2019m stuck on the logistics of it. How do you shoplift a deep fryer? Or was that the bridge too far?”

Having once picked up a hitchhiker heading home from a holiday in Berrima, he spent most of the trip explaining how to shoplift stuff. He seemed to favor any large boxes piled up near the front of the shop. Just pick one up on your way out, like you own it. I never got the exact reason for his holiday.

Mothy said :

Big ups to the security staff at those stores.

I’m stuck on the logistics of it. How do you shoplift a deep fryer? Or was that the bridge too far?

Actually I’m wondering the same thing, it’s not as though you can just slip a deep fryer up your shirt or in your handbag.

Mothy said :

I’m stuck on the logistics of it. How do you shoplift a deep fryer?

Remove any security tags on the item and put it in a trolley full of other stuff (perhaps all the other stuff she had stolen that day) and casually walk out would be one way to do it.

A supermarket I used to at had trouble with a woman walking out of the store with a trolley full of grog. She’d casually walk out when the front end staff weren’t watching. Took the store a few weeks to finally catch the woman who was doing it.

Not hard for those who know what they are doing. And sadly the community pays higher prices on goods because of it.

Krutsky the clown…

I’m sure bail is guaranteed for this poor victim of society and she is due compensation for her circumstances.

(Coughbullshit)

The young woman%u2019s lawyer, Sarah Avery, told the ACT Magistrates Court that her client committed the offences because she was stressed about the serious charges she was already facing and the fact that she was going to have a baby.

Of course, stealing items such as those, not to mention getting caught, is the de rigueur method of stress relief for pregnant teens. I read it in a leaflet at the ante natal clinic.

Is it just me, or do lawyers live in another world? “M’lud, I have to put it to the jury that my client was merely exercising some stress relief by being out on the rob while on bail.

This is only to be expected of pregnant teenagers who are already facing charges, and I do not think there is any case to answer here.

Who amongst us can honestly say we have not been pregnant and on bail, and felt the need to steal a chip fryer in order to unburden ourselves of the stresses of modern life.

Society is to blame.

Yep, that’ll get her off her charges, surely!!

Big ups to the security staff at those stores.

I’m stuck on the logistics of it. How do you shoplift a deep fryer? Or was that the bridge too far?

Belco is barely above riverside plaza these days.

Belconnen Mall…sure you don’t mean Riverside Plaza? Sounds like it should have happened in Quangers.