19 June 2008

70% of Canberrans drive to work

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ABC online http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/19/2279226.htm reports the findings of a AAMI survey in wich 70% of Canberrans drive to work. I expect the following extract will be used by various idealists in the ACT Government (hi John Hargreaves) to push for more punitive revenue raising measures to get more bums (literally and figuritively) onto ACTION buses:

The survey also found public transport use has increased by 3 per cent but is used by just 10 per cent of commuters. The survey went on to say: Mr Crommie says nearly half of commuters surveyed indicated that public transport in Canberra is unreliable.”One third says that it takes too long to get to their destination,” he said. “And a similar number, 35 per cent, said that they can’t use public transport because it’s not available where they live, work or go to school.”


Well, there’s your problem. Buses or light rail might be an utopian ideal for the green leaning hand wringers but when you deviate from the norm, say if you are a single parent with a primary school child, it just ISN’T an option. My scenario: my child’s school is 10 minutes drive from home and my work is another 5 minutes away. So I can drop him to the door shortly before scool starts and pick him up from after school care in the evening then be home within a matter of minutes. By bus in the morning, we would need to be on an 7.30 bus to Woden that gets in at 8.10. Although I could stroll off to work and be in air conditioned comfort within 5 minutes, he would then have a 15 minute layover in the cold, scummy interchange before catching his 8.25 bus to the school, arriving at 8.35 meaning he is outside for another 25 minutes before the bell rings. So that’s an hour and a half from our front door to the time he gets in the classroom (compared to 10 minutes by car). Hometime? Well, after 3 pm either he catches a bus to get home alone (again, with interchange layovers etc) at 4.35pm or if he stays at after school care for me to pick him up (note – I need to sign him out of care, he can’t do it himself) I would need to bus it to his school at the end of work, we go back to the interchange, then get home probably 7 ish. That’s a l-o-n-g day for a child. And it doesn’t take into account longer days for sports training etc. Or if he falls sick through the day.

As a singleton I could cope with a 40 minute bus ride each way although I’d always be frustrated at losing an hour of my day just to be doing “the right thing”. But I really get the irrits at tsk-tsking from this tin-pot local gummint or the greenies for the heanous crime of using my own small car (having paid the same amount of rego each year whether I do 3,000 km or 30,000 km a year) rather than the People’s Glorious Mass Transit Solution. Bah.

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ACT Light Rail5:53 pm 04 Oct 08

Build light rail and transport oriented development will occur around it. This means employment, education, retail etc will be built to take advantage of the transport medium. You will be able to have a one car family and not impact your lifestyle. Rapid transit may save you time. that one hour bus trip – sharing onroad traffic with cars – may drop to 15-20 minutes when the light rail vehicle can travel at 120kmh between stops. .

The key is fixed transport infrastructure. No employer says ‘great, a bus stop – lets build there’.

I also dont believe people should be ‘punished’ into choosing public transport. Make it attractive, comfortable and convenient. Those are the reasons why light rail will increase public transport use, where buses have failed.

Reprobate if your kid can catch the bus home on his own, he could catch the bus to school couldn’t he? And you could catch a later bus than 7.30 am and get to work closer to his schooltime. After school, why doesn’t he catch a bus to the interchange after school and walk to your work? I can’t see how your get-home time would be 7 pm in any case … If petrol prices shoot up again, we might all find we aren’t resisting buses as hard …

I used to catch the bus to work everyday until the recent bus timetable changes. Now, I drive to work (Civic) from West Belconnen. I just became annoyed having to stand up all the way on the bus and having to switch buses at the Belconnen interchange. Over it…

i am all for going green so as soon as a good public transport system is introduced, i will be the first one on it

astrojax said :

at least we should also and urgently have some co-ordinated car pooling, possibly facilitated by the gov’t.

Yea i am agreeeing with this idea… i get so fustrated when i see so many people driving in seperate cars all to the same place!!

i would ride a bike but i live out of canberra so it takes me 30 mins on a good day and 45 mins on a busy day to drive to work.
And lving 25 min out of canberra means buses are totally out of the question

If they start having bus services at 12am, on saturday nights when i finish work, i may reconsider catching buses to work.. (not to mention, i have to catch two buses to work on weekends…and it takes 90 minutes to get to and from work on weekends, so i’d get home at like 1:30. Compared to a 15 minute car ride…Hmm.)

Figures do show that bus usage is up recently. The actual challenge to increasing bus services is getting the bus drivers.

The ACT govt can’t even provide enough buses for the people that atually want to catch teh bus right now.

I think more people are gradually starting to use buses, due to petrol and parking costs, and perhaps greenie ideals.

It is now up to the ACT govt to actually provide enough buses to service the timetable they have now, and then to gradually increase it.

There should be more park and ride – people have been calling for Epic to be a park and ride for years. And they should consider making buses cheaper or free outside of peak hours. Smaller buses could also be considered for some routes/times.

And also – another help with the fuel consumption – for motorcycles / bikes

Hi, I just wanted to suggest a carpool / ride share website for Canberra and other cities called Carpool One – it’s safer than some other sites, and also free/non-profit … hopefully it will help change the current situation to the better.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy1:21 pm 23 Jun 08

My daily drive is a Holden Astra, previous model. 1.8litre 4 cyl engine. Gets about 7 litres per hundred around town for fuel economy. Boring but reliable and effective little car.

The V8 is my toy, and it only comes out of the garage a couple of times a week.

Hamilton – the matiz comment made me laugh because I owned one for a while. It was tiny and slow, but totally reliable and VERY cheap on fuel, and surprisingly comfortable. It was actually one of the best cars I’ve ever owned, in terms of its intended function.

Would it be cheaper for government to give the 10%ers taxi vouchers and save the millions$ the bus service drains? Then the interchanges could be used for parking.

That turn the mall’s parking into Park and Ride idea could work .. then the shoppers would have to catch buses to the mall as there is no parking. Works all round. Can just see the Myers and DJs shoppers going home in the bus with their pretty shopping bags full of expensive purchases sitting next to the Reject Shop pers….

Is EPIC owned by ACT govt? If so , why is that not a giant P and R?
Could be a good use for old school sites … lots of parking for P and R bus servicing.

Public transport in Canberra is a joke – every two hours on a Sunday??? When I moved here from Sydney I ws shocked that school kids had to pay their own fares.

I do catch the bus from time to time – a multitrip will last me up a to month – and it does take a little planning. Public transport is not a de facto taxi service so it will take some compromise on the user’s part to use it.

I am a little spoilt for choice as a number of bus services (at least three) run through the general vicinity (I live in Gungahlin) and reasonably directly into the city, where I work. Therefore I don’t suffer the same issues that others do, like stupendously long meanders through suburbs. For my purposes, Public Transport is fine. Never mind the germs, it’s really something only an OCD type sufferer would worry about.

I would agree with a suggestion in an earlier post to have more direct services to city centres in conjunction with a park and ride scheme. However that doesn’t solve the problem for PT user who want to visit a friend in Wanniassa for instance. Or a PT user who doesn’t have a car. There’s no simple answer to the question of PT availablity, particuarly in a city laid out like Canberra.

tylersmayhem9:31 am 20 Jun 08

I was actually considering to start taking the bus recently. Then the re-launched “new and improved” Action timetables were released. Previous to this, I’d be able to catch a bus from my local shops in Belco, and 35 mins later I’d be in Civic – direct.

Since these widely publicised fantastic improvements, there is a route less to choose from, and I’d have to change buses at Belco mall to get on a Civic route! C’mon Action – meet us half way here!

Now I’m considering riding. We’ve got a pretty sweet cycle network here.

Wow, that was good!

Any other exceptionally deep things to say sunshine?

That’s about it for now. I’ll save the good ones for later!! What instrument do you play?

damnintellectuals3:07 am 20 Jun 08

Are you telling me there is no Park and Ride option in Canberra?

I am wondering how much fuel costs will effect getting people from interstate to work in Canberra. Those in the ACT would drive say 20kms to work. Those coming from outside the ACT in rural NSW must be feeling it. This will eventually translate into a lack of bodies to do the work in the ACT. Getting others to move from other capital cities will also prove more difficult due to the rising cost of moving.
Public transport issues in the ACT is similar to ACT traffic jams which really is a non event for the 300,000 inhabitants compared to the millions in Melbourne or Sydney.

PM said :

Light rail and buses are not meant to cater for everybody; only those for whom it is appropriate. Nobody wants to remove roads or parking, and the article shouldn’t be a guilt-trip.

Perhaps around 10% is the correct percentage of Canberrans for whom bus travel will ever realistically be convenient or appropriate (or just plain necessary).

In my young and single days, I caught the bus every day. It is not an option these days for me or my clan (refer to other previous posts Re: work, school drop offs, sick kids, etc.)

People need options that will suit them and their circumstances at the time. Yes we need effective public transport services. People also need cars. There should not be penalties imposed (on car drivers) for wanting to get to work on time or enjoying the convenience of being able to leave work and pick up a sick child who needed you there 5 minutes ago.

Of course 70% of canberrans drive, the city is designed for it. The public transport is a joke despite their “improvements”, they are not seriously going to get a large number of people onto buses until they ditch the scenic 1hr+ bus routes for a journey that would normally take 15-20min to drive.

$2/L may see some more people jump into cattle class buses, but even then the convenience of driving will be enough for the majority of people.

If petrol hits $2 then Mrs G’s Vespa starts to look mighty good (the baby might fit in the top box). Although I think I’ll keep my self respect and ride the pushie or run.

Danman, there are changes to Ngunnawal services – for the worse 🙂 I used to hop on the 53 and be at work in Bruce in under half an hour. Now I have to change buses, which most of the time don’t connect on time, and it takes an extra 15 minutes.

Not to mention if you simply want to go to Belconnen you have to travel around the world and back to get there.

> grab yourself one of these

omg, they carry 7 slabs of beer… I’m going to get 2!

Woody Mann-Caruso4:09 pm 19 Jun 08

I drive to work pretty much every day. My 2002 4-cylinder 1.6L car is pretty fuel efficient, and its carbon emissions are offset by extra Greenchoice power. Compared to repayments, rego, insurance and maintenace, fuel isn’t that big of an expense, and it’s the only expense I save by catching the bus (parking is free in the Parliamentary Triangle).

For example, let’s say I do a fair bit of driving on the weekend and it ends up costing me $80/fn to fill it up. 20 bus trips over the same period costs ~$60, and I’ll still drive on the weekend. For whatever small saving there is, my 15-20 minute commute becomes an hour commute, assuming I can get on the 170 in the evening. I have to leave at certain times. I can’t carry stuff like groceries, or run errands on the way home. I have to listen to John Laws. I don’t get a seat. I have to smell the grubby specimen smooshed up against me. And so on.

Maybe when petrol hits $2+ a litre I’ll think about it. More likely I’ll just find somebody to carpool with and halve my petrol bill again.

or thumper is actually a rabbit. with a nice fluffy tail. clever rabbit, but…

can rabbits drive?

(was in a band once; the drummer’s psuedonym for an article in the paper on us was the inventive ‘tom beater’…)

Deadmandrinking said :

Danman, bikes are one good way for getting around the city. They keep you fit too.

grab yourself one of these – http://www.psbikes.com.au/home.html

have seen a couple around town – look good for kids and groceries and fitness!

I would think, being that thumper is a muso – he is either a roadie or a bass player 🙂

Problem is CAnberra has designated Town centres. What gubmint needs to do is open up large carparks in the town centres and then set up good routes to the other town centres with large volumes of buses/light rail system whatever. Then make the parking in the town centres cheap with an associated bus/rail tickets. This would not stop people driving although may make people take a short trip to the town centre then use public transport for the rest of the way.

The way Canberra is designed does not lend itself well to effective public transport.

Thumper – What does that say about your name – D!ck Thumper perhaps?

VY Berlina – what sort of small car do you have? – No doubt it’s some little clown car like a matisz!!

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy3:12 pm 19 Jun 08

I car pool every day – with my wife and son. Where we live (Jerrabomberra) it takes an hour and half and 9 bucks EACH WAY to get from home to work and back.

Given that we use 1 (small) car most days to drop off the boy at care and get the two of us to work, plus the reverse to get home, it’s laughable that we would even consider buses. Plus I get to park for free!

I agree with the other opinions here that say we need to get public transport sorted, rather than just trying to penalise drivers.

From Ngunnawal its a 2 hr dawdle.

I go down gundaroo rd – up gunghalin drive, under barton hwy, along bottom of north lyneham and then right into lyneham and bik epath it all the way down to lyneham, oconnor, turner etc, down clunies ross street around lake, and over scrivner dam – right at the ntersection and down teh hill over the rickety bridge down the back of teh equestrian centre and RSPCA then I am in weston CK. If I am going to duffy I turn right past the archery club and then onto scrivener street, if I want Lyons I go straight after scrivner and through curtin.

Bike computer says ~30km – yet to do it with my gps – but that shoul dbe more accurate methinks.

Deadmandrinking2:48 pm 19 Jun 08

That’s a fair ride, man. Which way do you go? Through Belco and Stromlo or down through the city and the lake and stuff?

Yeah I regularluy ride from Ngunnawal to Weston Creek Area, but not sure if I wanna take the plunge into riding to work yet – as I am not a fan of work showers and being sweaty when I get to work..

Deadmandrinking2:42 pm 19 Jun 08

Danman, bikes are one good way for getting around the city. They keep you fit too. I’ve got to get my bloody one fixed sometime soon.

VG – I work in civic and start work between 0700 and 0745.
I have 2 busses at my disposal – And when they are running less than 10 minutes late a bus at 0714 gets me to work at 0800 that is full by my stop and then another bus at 0730 that is chockers and gets me to work at 0815.

Anything else is too late for my purposes.

In the situation I am in, I can drive to work on my own accord – taking 15 minutes, outside of peak periods and park free all day. Where then is the inspiration to utilise services of action.

Their new services are a crock for us Ngunnawalites – no changes what so ever…

If petrol gets any more expensive, I am considering (in the warmer months) riding my bicycle (non recumbent and on bike pathes) to work – such is my lack of trust loyalty etc for action.

Deadmandrinking2:37 pm 19 Jun 08

Yes, Albegeois, some of them tend to cover a little too much area. I have the 3 and the 6 (33) near my house. The 6 is great, it gets me to civic in a short period of time no worries (I’m about to catch it soon as a matter of fact). The 3 is not so great, in fact, sometimes I just go ‘f-k it’ and walk to civic or to Barry Drive depending on where I want to go.

Deadmandrinking2:34 pm 19 Jun 08

It can be annoying when you finish or start any time between midnight and 6am, VG.

gun street girl said :

Buses can be fine if you work 9-5 (and live in an area that is serviced by buses). Try catching a bus to and from work when you start before 7am, and finish beyond 8pm. It goes without saying that shift workers can’t use the service, either.

Bollocks. I work 24/7 shifts and catch the bus all the time. Takes a smidgin of planning but that’s it.

Deadmandrinking, nearly right – I was talking about either the 35 or the 38 (now the 5 and 6 more or less)…

I’ve actually down the calculation for getting the bus in the wrong direction to Woden and then getting an intertown into civic – almost exactly the same amount of time (about 5 mins more). That just says something I can’t quite enunciate about the ridiculous-ness of the route.

i rekkun it is incumbent on all canberrans to move to where they can thencatch public transport – why should public transport come to you?

eh? oh, that’s the idea? damn…

what we need, though, is yes better public tramsport, but better use of it. of course there will be a sizeable proportion of people for whom it isn’t a [very] viable option, but there are shirtloads of people who could use it but drive.

at least we should also and urgently have some co-ordinated car pooling, possibly facilitated by the gov’t.

and how hard would it be to have the cab co.s have some system that tells them – through early bookings (which should be encouraged) – when people want to go to similar destinations along similar routes and service these with mini-bus or similar vehicles?

anyway, i cycle to work in the main, so’s good for me…

green_frogs_go_pop2:15 pm 19 Jun 08

10 minute drive, or a half hour bus trip to school?

I know which one i’d choose.

(not to mention, bus means i have to be on a 8:05 service to get to school on time, or leave home at around 8:30 or so. Hmm. Just enough time to have a second cup of coffee, me thinks.)

And work..i finish at 10pm most nights..its just a joke.

Hmm, lets see. I need to get to the ANU by 11am from Chisholm.

By bus: leave home at 9:45am to walk to the Chisholm shops to catch a bus at 10am that arrives in Woden at 10:27am. Then onto the intertown service leaving Woden at 10:33am arriving in the city at 10:49am. Then a brisk walk to the ANU arriving at around 11am.

By car: leave home at 10:40am arriving at the ANU at 11am. Net benefit: 55 minutes. Agreed I have to pay for parking, but as a full-time student I get my own parking space for $297 per year.

I know which option i’d choose (and do choose).

Clown Killer2:11 pm 19 Jun 08

I drive. If I get the chance not to drive, I’ll take my bike, leave early and swing by Mt Stromlo on the way to the office.

More effective public transport sounds fine but lets not get carried away – when we start comparing and looking at what others have done, lets looks at other cities around the same size – Woolongong, Newcastle, Geelong, etc rather than Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane.

I see things as being in somewhat of a transition phase at the moment.

Apparently, more people are electing to take public transport because of the cost of petrol (and parking). But while it’s a cheaper option, most people recognise that it’s also a more shitty option due to timing issues, meandering routes, having to deal with other humans, etc.

Still, as driving gets more expensive, we should expect more people to go down the public transport route, even with its limitations. And this could be the key, insofar as more people using the service means it becomes economical to run more services, meaning there are less problems meaning more people use the service…

Maybe, just maybe, we might even get enough people to make the great rail dream a viable option?

Deadmandrinking2:04 pm 19 Jun 08

I agree Gun Street Girl. If they really want to fix action’s services, I think they should have a look at providing later night services and early morning services. Would have been an immense help for me when I did night shifts.

Albegois, was that the old ’34’ service you were catching (now the ‘3’)? I find that route particularly annoying. But there are ways around it for most I think, catch any bus that goes to the nearest town center and you’re sweet.

Light rail and buses are not meant to cater for everybody; only those for whom it is appropriate. Nobody wants to remove roads or parking, and the article shouldn’t be a guilt-trip.

The issue for me is that when people don’t feel as though they have a public transport choice they drive instead ie clogging up roads for everyone. There should be a public transport choice.

I would LOVE to be able to catch the bus to work more often, but in Canberra the public transport system is just clearly inferior to driving.

I have a choice of:
1. 55 minutes door to door via bus, meandering through the inner south before finally heading across the lake, through Russell and onto Civic.
2. 15 minutes door to door in the car, paying $7.50 to park about 3 minutes from work

Clearly, option 2 is the preferred option, even with the increased cost. I just don’t have the TIME in the day to waste on nearly 2 hours commuting!

And then don’t get me started on the unreliability of buses arriving early or not at all. Staying northside a little over a week ago, I was aiming to catch the 7.17am number 59 with my friend. At 7.30 we called Action, only to be told there was no such bus. No such bus?!?! CODSWALLOP! It’s on the timetable, my friend had caught it EVERY day that week, and clearly others were under the impression it existed because there were a good ten people at the bus stop with us!!

And people wonder why we drive? I don’t even have kids to worry about and I only use the bus system if I absolutely can’t avoid it.

gun street girl1:41 pm 19 Jun 08

Buses can be fine if you work 9-5 (and live in an area that is serviced by buses). Try catching a bus to and from work when you start before 7am, and finish beyond 8pm. It goes without saying that shift workers can’t use the service, either.

or as I affectionately call it, “the human zoo”

best place to see all walks of life, and possibly catch all manner of diseases. worse than a childcare centre.

Public transport – eeeeew! It will cost you a fortune in penecillin shots!!

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