13 August 2008

Debate on the Conder car crash

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Can I please have everyone’s attention!!!!!

Has anybody noticed how this discussion started?!? It was a condolence message. . . and I think that this blog should have stayed in that way. . .

Most people who have added their opinion or made speculation, put yourself in the position of the young driver, her family and her friends – especially A.R!

If you didn’t know the driver, and I have for 10yrs, then you would know that alcohol and drugs were not contributing factors in this accident!!!

It is so hurtful to hear the rumours and outright lies that are spreading their way around Canberra!

If your not 100% sure of the details, then mind your own freaking business because the words you write are damaging the lives of those involved – had some respect for A.W!!!

She will live with this for the rest of her life… think about it and shut up!!!!

[ED – I don’t think it is realistic to expect the public to not discuss (in any forum be it over the back fence, in the legislative assembly, or here) such a tragedy. But I’m up for debate, knock yourselves out. Best to read through the parent discussion first]

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Timberwolf657:24 am 19 Aug 08

Wasn’t the funeral for this poor girl yesterday?
Will we ever be told what really went on that night?

monkey1 said :

My child and friends have decided they want to attend. I will attend with them. I am hoping that once the funeral is over there won’t be any consequences, but time will tell.

I know if they don’t go they will regret it later in life.

monkey1,

Regretably, I dont have all the details about the funeral arrangements, but I do know for sure that any of Amy’s friends are welcome to show their respects. I’m not doubting your comments above, but can only say I am naturally disappointed if such threats are being made by her so called friends. Sadly I cannot make my nieces funeral and it would be nice to know that all her friends were able to say their goodbyes.

to mdme workalot, it is hard losing friends at such a young age, you always think they’ll be around.

My child and friends have decided they want to attend. I will attend with them. I am hoping that once the funeral is over there won’t be any consequences, but time will tell.

I know if they don’t go they will regret it later in life.

mdme workalot8:53 am 15 Aug 08

Monkey1 – re your child attending the funeral.

I faced a similar situation when I was 15 – a friend I used to be quite close to was killed in a car accident, and I was warned not to go to the funeral as I had had quite a serious falling out with some of her other friends. I agonised over the decision for days, and eventually decided that I really needed to say goodbye.

My parents came with me, as they were fully aware of the situation. The funeral went as well as it could and there was no trouble – in fact, my friends parents expressed their gratitude for my attendance (they were also aware of the trouble between all the girls).

Three days later, I was followed home by members of the ‘group’ and got a flogging. But to this day, I’m so glad that I went and said goodbye, regardless of the outcome. FWIW, I still (11 years later) visit the cemetery every year on the anniversary of my friends death – I am the only one apart from family who makes the effort.

I would strongly recommend going to the funeral with your child and (if possible) any other friends and their parents who are also uncertain of whether to go. It’s not something that your child can decide to do later, and I think you’ll find it will mean a great deal to her parents.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Yep, treating grieving as an opportunity to have a high-school popularity contest may be the ultimate in bad taste.

Some of these kids really need to have a quick watch of “Heathers”.

ant said :

Mr Evil said:

Mr Evil said :

What is it with these idiots trying to out-mourn one another and dictating to others that they have no right to comment at all about an issue because it affects them?

Arch-tossers is what they are. And I suspect the taxpayer will be coughing up for them for quite some years to come. they’re an adornment to society.

Ant

I don’t believe it

I agree with you

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot1:33 am 15 Aug 08

Madman said :

Correct me if i’m wrong but you were saying that it was okay for them to commit a crime cause they lost a loved one?

And correct me again if I didn’t say I’m going to lose a loved one but you won’t let me spray paint it on your driveway and in your community?

I’m happy to correct you – No, I didn’t x 2.

But thanks for the interpretations – stay away from the Quran.

This thread has been quiet comical to read the mind boggles what some of these people get up to in there spare time. Must be a depressing place to live in some of these suburbs lol by the sounds of it.

astrosapien said :

“Welcome to RA”

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for people speaking their minds and even having a bit of a laugh in the process when it is appropriate. Now just isn’t it for me.

Monkey1, my email is fairly simple and anonymous so I’m ok with posting it here:

Astrosapien@gmail.com

I’m happy to talk sensibly to anyone from on here, but be cautioned that if you’re just going to carry on the nonsense from on here I’ll block you.

Thanks!

astrosapien,

good luck with it all, I hope that there is some closure for the families effected after the police enquiry is completed.

Mr Evil said:

Mr Evil said :

What is it with these idiots trying to out-mourn one another and dictating to others that they have no right to comment at all about an issue because it affects them?

Arch-tossers is what they are. And I suspect the taxpayer will be coughing up for them for quite some years to come. they’re an adornment to society.

Timberwolf6510:36 pm 14 Aug 08

Well I am totally blown away from what I have been reading, I cannot believe threats are being made by this group of girls about who should attend the funeral.
Wouldn’t this be a time for everyone who knew the girl, to come together and say goodbye? I wonder what the girl would think of how these so called mates are acting.
The poor parents of the girl won’t want to be dealing with this sort of behavior on the day either.

Geez…

Some teens are so angry these days, they seem to think they are so hard done by, they form bloody gangs and intimidate people.
Shame on these girls for acting like this. I hope the kids that are afraid to go to the funeral do end up going, they have the right to do so, they have the right to say goodbye one last time:(

“Welcome to RA”

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for people speaking their minds and even having a bit of a laugh in the process when it is appropriate. Now just isn’t it for me.

Monkey1, my email is fairly simple and anonymous so I’m ok with posting it here:

Astrosapien@gmail.com

I’m happy to talk sensibly to anyone from on here, but be cautioned that if you’re just going to carry on the nonsense from on here I’ll block you.

Thanks!

Smoke signals at noon…

Well said Astrosapien. There are people involved here that are hurting, yourself and you family in particular!

I do not know how to get in touch outside this forum, but do not wish to put any personal details online here, so if you know a way let me know

astrosapien said :

Wow,

This has gotten way off topic and into the realms of pure absurdity. The fact that my sister and her family were involved aside, I am appalled at the way some of the people on this forum are treating this serious community issue so flipantly.

I’d like to say a sincere “thank you” to some of the people on here that have contributed in a serious manner, Monkey1 and Peterh in particular. Your insight into the matter from first hand experiences and information on the way in which the young people are coping with this is what this thread should have had more of.

Debates over which part of Canberra is better, the types of people that live there, dead goldfish and McDonalds restaurants in laundries makes a mockery of the situation and all the people that have been affected by this turn of events.

I would genuinely like to continue discussing this issue seriously but it seems pretty clear at this moment that this forum is not where it is likely to happen. Monkey1 and Peterh, if you would like to discuss this further away from the ridiculousness of this forum, get in touch and we can go from there.

Thanks again to everyone, but I just can’t bring myself to participate in this until people get back on topic and treat the matter with the seriousness that it deserves.

Astrosapien out

Again… Welcome to RA!

Wow,

This has gotten way off topic and into the realms of pure absurdity. The fact that my sister and her family were involved aside, I am appalled at the way some of the people on this forum are treating this serious community issue so flipantly.

I’d like to say a sincere “thank you” to some of the people on here that have contributed in a serious manner, Monkey1 and Peterh in particular. Your insight into the matter from first hand experiences and information on the way in which the young people are coping with this is what this thread should have had more of.

Debates over which part of Canberra is better, the types of people that live there, dead goldfish and McDonalds restaurants in laundries makes a mockery of the situation and all the people that have been affected by this turn of events.

I would genuinely like to continue discussing this issue seriously but it seems pretty clear at this moment that this forum is not where it is likely to happen. Monkey1 and Peterh, if you would like to discuss this further away from the ridiculousness of this forum, get in touch and we can go from there.

Thanks again to everyone, but I just can’t bring myself to participate in this until people get back on topic and treat the matter with the seriousness that it deserves.

Astrosapien out

Excellent logic.

That’s like comparing apples and dildos.

However, thanks for the inspiration. Next time I die I’m going to open up a McDonalds in your laundry.

The TAGS don’t like me!

Hooley Dooley… You need to get back on your pills.

Correct me if i’m wrong but you were saying that it was okay for them to commit a crime cause they lost a loved one?

And correct me again if I didn’t say I’m going to lose a loved one but you won’t let me spray paint it on your driveway and in your community?

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

Excellent logic.

That’s like comparing apples and dildos.

However, thanks for the inspiration. Next time I die I’m going to open up a McDonalds in your laundry.[/quote>

Hooley Dooley… You need to get back on your pills.

Correct me if i’m wrong but you were saying that it was okay for them to commit a crime cause they lost a loved one?

And correct me again if I didn’t say I’m going to lose a loved one but you won’t let me spray paint it on your driveway and in your community?

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot8:51 pm 14 Aug 08

Madman said :

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

Madman said :

Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a crime.

Doesn’t mean what they did was wrong, or that we should care about a little bit of paint on a sterile piece of road.

I think some people are treating this like the kids raped their grandmother.

I hope you’re not calling on the crime scene investigation to tape off the scene and dust for prints… I’m not sure if the AFP have the resources to take on this case?

So if you’re going to give away vandalism then when the childrens cat dies, does that meant they can go commit murder and get let off?

@Eyeball, my goldfish is on the brink, whats your address so i can come spraypaint RIP FishGold all over your driveway and maybe up along the road on your street and on your walls of your house… You have got to be kidding me, a crime is a crime. do the crime, pay the time. not ohhh its okay cause your having a bad time in life.

Excellent logic.

That’s like comparing apples and dildos.

However, thanks for the inspiration. Next time I die I’m going to open up a McDonalds in your laundry.

Well said Madman, I’m sure Eyeball wouldn’t be happy with it all over their driveway.

Whatsup – thank you. I think it is important that the kids involved have someone to talk, even if the parent leads into the conversation, because teenagers being teenagers won’t ask for help. That is why the minute I found out about it I started talking, told them I was hear to listen anytime. We stayed up till 2am talking, about this tradegy and other things going on in life. I hope they can all find a way to cope that doesn’t involve breaking the law and voilent towards others.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

Madman said :

Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a crime.

Doesn’t mean what they did was wrong, or that we should care about a little bit of paint on a sterile piece of road.

I think some people are treating this like the kids raped their grandmother.

I hope you’re not calling on the crime scene investigation to tape off the scene and dust for prints… I’m not sure if the AFP have the resources to take on this case?

So if you’re going to give away vandalism then when the childrens cat dies, does that meant they can go commit murder and get let off?

@Eyeball, my goldfish is on the brink, whats your address so i can come spraypaint RIP FishGold all over your driveway and maybe up along the road on your street and on your walls of your house… You have got to be kidding me, a crime is a crime. do the crime, pay the time. not ohhh its okay cause your having a bad time in life.

Conder/Tuggeranong is not boganville – I bet your from Charnwood. Or the fyshwick trailer park – and it is not filled with seniors you fool – everyone out here are young families. Average age is 28…

People really should stop trying to assign boganity to particular parts of Canberra. FFS the whole joint is chock full of them. From Bonner in the north to Tharwa in the south. Every suburb, probably every street.

In fact I would attest that bogans are the vast majority of Australians. Nothing to do with money, all to do with attitude. There are bogan multi-millionaires (Warne, Santic (guy who owns Makybe Diva), little Lleyton, et al).

Boganity is all about how you live your life and treat others or specifically people or things that are different to the norm rather than saying everything is ‘sh1t’ or getting your news from the Tele, ACA or TDT.

Now back on topic

Roadrage77 said :

Marlin – I can totally understand how you’d like Conder if you’re from Sydney. Its like going from dog shit to cat shit. Both stink but at least cat shit is smaller and easier to deal with.

And if you think there are no more boguns in Southern Tuggers than elsewhere in Canberra then you must be one yourself.

I don’t mean to be offensive. I just wouldn’t live there if you paid me. Its just my personal preference.

Dude,

Considering the nature of the topic here and the fact that many of the people here trying to discuss this matter seriously have been directly affected by this crash, what you are saying IS incredibly offensive and isn’t contributing to resolving this issue in the slightest.

Now, it would be hypocritical of me to say that you have no right to voice you opinion in a public forum after being fairly involved here over the last couple of days myself. However, may I suggest that instead of bringing this thread down you start your own thread elsewhere on the forum where you can discuss which part of Canberra is better than others, and leave the grown ups here in peace.

I don’t mean to be offensive. I just wouldn’t want to give you the time of day if you paid me. It’s just my personal preference.

monkey1 said :

I spoke to my child about what to do if they decided to go and my child doesn’t want to stay for the whole service, only go to pay their respects and is happy that I would be outside and close for support. I am doing what I can to help my child cope with this and not pushing too hard for what I feel is right, I have to respect my child’s feelings in this also. I want my child to be able to talk to me without the fear of me pushing what I believe onto them.

It sounds like you have done more for your child than most and the fact that you have been talking openly about it is a credit to you.

Some of these teenagers will be looking to their parents for direction of how they should cope in such a situation (even though they wont admit it). I hope the parents of these children will provide the support and wisdom required.

Roadrage77 said :

Marlin – I can totally understand how you’d like Conder if you’re from Sydney. Its like going from dog shit to cat shit. Both stink but at least cat shit is smaller and easier to deal with.

And if you think there are no more boguns in Southern Tuggers than elsewhere in Canberra then you must be one yourself.

I don’t mean to be offensive. I just wouldn’t live there if you paid me. Its just my personal preference.

so… do you live in the northern suburbs, and go to belco mall?

I left belco to go to tuggeranong. moved out of bogan central (charnwood) to live in kambah.

far less bogans here, even though I moved here.

Your morality, whether good, bad or indifferent, does not have much bearing on your right to break the law.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

Marlin74 said :

Anyone notice what time it is. School is out so we should be getting plenty of posts where people condone graffiti and trashing up the place all in the name of art and expressing oneself.

I hear that’s what all the kids are into these days… roaming the South Tuggeranong hood looking to create unrest for the local senior population.

I blame television, the internet, drugs, alcohol and religion…

Marlin74 said :

Taking the cost to tax payers out of the equation for a minute. I don’t think anyone wants to live in a place tagged with graffiti and looking generally like Harlem in the 80’s. Writting someone’s name on a wall is no way of honoring their life.

Is it because you don’t like black people?

WTF?

Surely this isn’t going to now turn racial and territorial. This is getting way off topic and out of hand.

… didn’t mean to sound surly there – more gently, what I meant to say, was that expression of grief is to be encouraged, however there are appropriate places for this than the walls of an underpass or on the road itself.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot5:00 pm 14 Aug 08

fnaah said :

Doesn’t mean what they did was wrong

… er, actually, yes it does.quote]

Oh, OK!

My moral viewpoint is completely changed……..

Roadrage77 – it seems you are labeling those from Tuggeranong, not that I am, but I can think of a few suburbs northside that I wouldn’t step foot in!

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot4:57 pm 14 Aug 08

Marlin74 said :

Anyone notice what time it is. School is out so we should be getting plenty of posts where people condone graffiti and trashing up the place all in the name of art and expressing oneself.

I hear that’s what all the kids are into these days… roaming the South Tuggeranong hood looking to create unrest for the local senior population.

I blame television, the internet, drugs, alcohol and religion…

Marlin74 said :

Taking the cost to tax payers out of the equation for a minute. I don’t think anyone wants to live in a place tagged with graffiti and looking generally like Harlem in the 80’s. Writting someone’s name on a wall is no way of honoring their life.

Is it because you don’t like black people?

Marlin – I can totally understand how you’d like Conder if you’re from Sydney. Its like going from dog shit to cat shit. Both stink but at least cat shit is smaller and easier to deal with.

And if you think there are no more boguns in Southern Tuggers than elsewhere in Canberra then you must be one yourself.

I don’t mean to be offensive. I just wouldn’t live there if you paid me. Its just my personal preference.

yes whatsup they probably could be doing more, but they are also stretched by limited resources. At least they are not doing anything.

I did think about going into the funeral, but as I did not know the girl I feel I would be invading the families privacy. I spoke to my child about what to do if they decided to go and my child doesn’t want to stay for the whole service, only go to pay their respects and is happy that I would be outside and close for support. I am doing what I can to help my child cope with this and not pushing too hard for what I feel is right, I have to respect my child’s feelings in this also. I want my child to be able to talk to me without the fear of me pushing what I believe onto them.

Doesn’t mean what they did was wrong

… er, actually, yes it does. I extend my sympathies for their loss, but that’s no excuse to deface public property.

Go open a myspace or livejournal account if you want to vent publically.

monkey1 said :

I know the school are doing all they can within their limited powers.

I would suggest that what they are doing isn’t enough.

I know my child would like to attend the funeral to pay their respects, but is now too scared of having their head beaten in at a later date….For most of the kids it is the first time they’ve had to deal with the death of someone they know….I had planned to drive a few of them to the funeral and sit outside and wait, but they are too scared to go now incase there are repurcussions later.

The “group” of bullies have won if they succeed in stopping others from attending the funeral. Instead of sitting outside the funeral I would be attending with my kids to support them as it will be a highly emotional time. There could easily be more people outside the “group” there if the community (parents and students) at the school work together. By parents attending you are supporting your own children, their friends and of course the grieving family. Do you really want to let the “group” think their actions are supported by staying away ?

Anyone notice what time it is. School is out so we should be getting plenty of posts where people condone graffiti and trashing up the place all in the name of art and expressing oneself.

Taking the cost to tax payers out of the equation for a minute. I don’t think anyone wants to live in a place tagged with graffiti and looking generally like Harlem in the 80’s. Writting someone’s name on a wall is no way of honoring their life.

Sorry but I feel what they did is wrong, our taxes pay for this and for it’s removal! I would prefer my taxes went on better education and health than paying to remove this rubbish! I know they are grieving, but there are better ways to deal with it!

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot4:28 pm 14 Aug 08

Madman said :

Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a crime.

Doesn’t mean what they did was wrong, or that we should care about a little bit of paint on a sterile piece of road.

I think some people are treating this like the kids raped their grandmother.

I hope you’re not calling on the crime scene investigation to tape off the scene and dust for prints… I’m not sure if the AFP have the resources to take on this case?

Roadrage77 said :

Imagine a place where everyone wears a white baseball cap, drives a Commodore still in primer with an “RIP Brocky” sticker on the back window whilst talking on a mobile; where everyone has the Centrelink phone number on speed-dial; where everyone has at least two brothers named Darryn; where a 5 course meal is a bucket of KFC and a fourpack of Woodstock; where the local primary-school has a metal-detector at the front door; where your brother in law is your uncle AND your grandfather….

You just entered Southern Tuggeranong.

What a clown! Seriously. I have lived in Conder for the last 8 years and off course we have our fair share of idiots but no more bogans than other Canberra suburbs. Moved here from Sydney and have never looked back.

Mælinar - *spoiler alert* I've seen S04E134:19 pm 14 Aug 08

There’s a few indian-style funeral pyres already set up along the GDE, that seemed to work for several hundred years of pre-colonial Americans.

I know one child has been busy with poetry, my child showed me some poetry left on the deceased bebo profile, really moved me to tears. Even one poem dedicated to the deceased’s Mum which was beautiful! They aren’t all bad!

Exactly peterh. So far as I believe it is only threats (unless I get home and hear otherwise tonight).

With their grief and their emotions so high they could well do something they will regret greatly when they are older and wiser.

It is all just so sad really.

Mr Evil said :

Next “the group” will probably blame the AFP for their friend’s death.

the problem is, what levels are these kids going to, to get their friend’s memory preserved by “the group” only? what happens when they go too far?

Next “the group” will probably blame the AFP for their friend’s death.

monkey1 said :

Hehehe, yeah. It is sad though that some who feel they would like to go to the funeral to say goodbye feel that they can’t.

From the photo’s we saw it looks like an underpass somewhere (perhaps near the crash scene??), but they were sitting just above it in the photo with the road behind, so it is down from the road and probably not visible from the road.

Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a crime.

Mælinar - *spoiler alert* I've seen S04E133:26 pm 14 Aug 08

I still couldn’t find all the graffitti in Lanyon – Steve Pratt’s been there already

Hehehe, yeah. It is sad though that some who feel they would like to go to the funeral to say goodbye feel that they can’t.

From the photo’s we saw it looks like an underpass somewhere (perhaps near the crash scene??), but they were sitting just above it in the photo with the road behind, so it is down from the road and probably not visible from the road.

Woody Mann-Caruso3:24 pm 14 Aug 08

Imagine a place…

LOL.

monkey1 said :

Yes agreed, the teachers and parents need to step forward, I know the school are doing all they can within their limited powers. I cannot speak for the parents of these kids though. However, it doesn’t stop the threats over the internet after school hours.

I know my child would like to attend the funeral to pay their respects, but is now too scared of having their head beaten in at a later date.

The kids responsble for most of this behaviour is “the group” that the deceased was closest too, the ones also responsible for spray painting all over Lanyon. It seems if you weren’t part of “the group” you have no right to be upset or be grieving. For most of the kids it is the first time they’ve had to deal with the death of someone they know. How are they supposed to learn how to grieve if they’re threatened into not showing their sorrow??

I know for me I am doing all I can for my child, talking as much as we can, letting them speak their mind. I’ve visited the crash sight with my child to pay respects. I had planned to drive a few of them to the funeral and sit outside and wait, but they are too scared to go now incase there are repurcussions later.

It is sad that this is how it is being dealt with and I feel for the ones who cannot show their grief.

You need a big bike gang to take your kids to the funeral. With lots of big scary blokes, the kids can say that they’re all of their uncles!

I still couldn’t find all the graffitti in Lanyon

Yes agreed, the teachers and parents need to step forward, I know the school are doing all they can within their limited powers. I cannot speak for the parents of these kids though. However, it doesn’t stop the threats over the internet after school hours.

I know my child would like to attend the funeral to pay their respects, but is now too scared of having their head beaten in at a later date.

The kids responsble for most of this behaviour is “the group” that the deceased was closest too, the ones also responsible for spray painting all over Lanyon. It seems if you weren’t part of “the group” you have no right to be upset or be grieving. For most of the kids it is the first time they’ve had to deal with the death of someone they know. How are they supposed to learn how to grieve if they’re threatened into not showing their sorrow??

I know for me I am doing all I can for my child, talking as much as we can, letting them speak their mind. I’ve visited the crash sight with my child to pay respects. I had planned to drive a few of them to the funeral and sit outside and wait, but they are too scared to go now incase there are repurcussions later.

It is sad that this is how it is being dealt with and I feel for the ones who cannot show their grief.

Whatsup said :

monkey1: The teenagers you’ve mentioned obviously don’t have the skills or tools to manage their grief. This would be a fine time for the school and parents to work together to help the kids through the process in the best way possible.

Leaving kids to sort it out isn’t going to work here, it sounds like they are out of their depth.

Teachers and parents… Its time to step forward.

I wouldn’t doubt that the school isn’t helping – I would more point to that they are trying to do everything possible and reaching out for them but the kids aren’t putting their arms out for them to accept the help – it seems they want to deal with it in their way and put security on the cremotorium doors with a guest list.

Imagine a place where everyone wears a white baseball cap, drives a Commodore still in primer with an “RIP Brocky” sticker on the back window whilst talking on a mobile; where everyone has the Centrelink phone number on speed-dial; where everyone has at least two brothers named Darryn; where a 5 course meal is a bucket of KFC and a fourpack of Woodstock; where the local primary-school has a metal-detector at the front door; where your brother in law is your uncle AND your grandfather….

You just entered Southern Tuggeranong.

monkey1: The teenagers you’ve mentioned obviously don’t have the skills or tools to manage their grief. This would be a fine time for the school and parents to work together to help the kids through the process in the best way possible.

Leaving kids to sort it out isn’t going to work here, it sounds like they are out of their depth.

Teachers and parents… Its time to step forward.

astrosapien said :

Is that seriously any way to honor the memory of a friend?

Well no, apparently spray painting it all over Lanyon is the way to go…

Yeah, real nice bunch of friends these idiots are.

That’s a realy shame that the mourning kids are acting like this. I’m trying hard not to stereotype in any way, but are the kids that are making the threats involved in gangs? Threatening violence and intimidating people to the point where they are presuming to dictate who can and cannot go is attrocious behaviour.

Is that seriously any way to honor the memory of a friend?

monkey1 said :

Yes they are teenagers and not mature enough to mourn the way an adult would, but at the same time there is no need for them to be threatening others with violence at the mention of the deceased name. Having a child at the high school affected and hearing what “the group” who were closest to the girl are doing to others who didn’t know her as well for even mentioning her name is cruel. There are even threats happening as to who can and can’t attend the funeral, even though I have it on good authority that the Mum wants anyone who knew her daughter to attend. It is meaning some are grieving the way they want and others are too scared to and that is not fair!!

agreed.

when did it get so bad, that mourning kids threaten others about attending a funeral?
everyone who feels that they should attend, should.
no-one has the right to dictate what you can or can’t do with respect to a funeral and your right to attend.

but then, i am not a teenager, and haven’t been for some time…

Yes they are teenagers and not mature enough to mourn the way an adult would, but at the same time there is no need for them to be threatening others with violence at the mention of the deceased name. Having a child at the high school affected and hearing what “the group” who were closest to the girl are doing to others who didn’t know her as well for even mentioning her name is cruel. There are even threats happening as to who can and can’t attend the funeral, even though I have it on good authority that the Mum wants anyone who knew her daughter to attend. It is meaning some are grieving the way they want and others are too scared to and that is not fair!!

Mr Evil: They are teenagers, they are mourning and learning some life lessons. Don’t expect them to handle this like mature adults because they aren’t yet.

What is it with these idiots trying to out-mourn one another and dictating to others that they have no right to comment at all about an issue because it affects them?

Poor little teenagers – how do they all cope in such a harsh, cruel and heartless world?

I guess all those kids who were at places like Gallipoli, The Somme, Kokoda, Guadacanal, Iwo Jima, Kapyong, Long Tan and Khe Shan would definitely feel sorry for modern teenagers and all the ‘difficulties’ life throws their way.

astrosapien said :

Gah!!

I didn’t mean to imply any particular type of result from the police investigation, but just thinking that even if it is 100% accident that schools around the city could benefit from say the driver of the car speaking about how careful people really need to be on the roads and how easily things can you wrong…

I didn’t see any implication until you pointed it out, nope, still can’t.

Perhaps that is what we need – driver ed from young drivers who have accidents. Older people don’t get the same reaction from teens that kids their own age or just a bit older will.

more emphasis needs to be placed on bringing kids down to earth re a reality check, just because you haven’t had an accident yet, doesn’t mean you can’t have one.

when i was the age of the kids involved, I was certain I was indestructible. A few accidents and mates killed didn’t sink in until i was much older. I hope my kids get to learn from others mistakes, and not make them themselves.

and I wish that my mates had been involved in discussions about consequences, not bragging about speeds and near misses…

Marlin74 said :

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

monkey1 said :

As far as the spray painting incident goes, my child knows the four involved (photographed) and has given me their names to pass on to the authorities, along with the screen dumps of their bebo sites. Thankfully my child only knows them and is not friends with them.

Aren’t you dissapointed in your child for being a rat?

What are rediculous comment. If more people from the community did this we could greatly reduce the vandalism and petty crime in the ACT. How many times did they rebuid the bus shelter outside the Lanyon shops before idiots smashed all the glass again. Young punks with nothing better to do. Should be at home and roming the streets looking for things to destroy.

Keep it up I say.

7… I believe it was 7 times.

Where was all this vandalism done, I drove around Lanyon this morning before going to work and saw not a thing, I could have been looking in all the wrong places.

Gah!!

I didn’t mean to imply any particular type of result from the police investigation, but just thinking that even if it is 100% accident that schools around the city could benefit from say the driver of the car speaking about how careful people really need to be on the roads and how easily things can you wrong…

Deadmandrinking11:16 am 14 Aug 08

Interesting site, L, thanks for that.

Peterh, no need to worry. I didnn’t take it as you having a go at me

🙂

Like yourself I tend to be somewhat of an optimist and hope that the friends and family learn from whatever the police reveal and contribute to mending the community and preventing this from happening in the future.

Skidbladnir said :

I had a friend killed in broad daylight during roughly the same period of my school years and by strange coincidence, got to be an observer from the footpath.
(Here actually, but all they’ve done in the way of improvement in the last decade is put a street light up in the roundabout the driver sailed over and into oncoming traffic, and added a turning lane)
Mid 80’s Laser with an inexperienced driver vs speeding drunk-driven Datsun ute = unpretty.

Being able to talk about it was fairly helpful for the deceased’s families (and witnesses), but I’d imagine in a case where some of those involved are still alive its in everybody’s interests to wait for the investigations to finish and coronial findings to happen, before tearing strips off eachother.
(Or going out and covering suburbs in your emotional baggage)

As much as you people and families might like it to, the situation isn’t going to go away, and things aren’t going to be the way they used to be.

I didn’t actually ‘get over’ it, just had to cope, adapt, and learn to manage, or it probably would have eaten me alive.
And that kind of lesson isn’t easy to learn, when you’re in high school and trying to “Be a man” and deal with everything else.

Skid,

I understand what you are saying about this kind of lesson, I had a mate killed just inches from me on a roadside. The car didn’t slow down at the red light.

He had stepped out on a green pedestrian light, when the car wasn’t anywhere near us. (and we both had looked before walking) He died in my arms. I was 16 years old.

I never was in the in crowd, but I distinctly remembered that I wouldn’t be helped by anyone, I had to do it myself. This almost cost me my life. I became withdrawn, and turned to the bottle for solace, as my parents did not lock the grog cabinet.

I won’t go into much detail, this is not the place to do so.

Loquaciousness11:12 am 14 Aug 08

[OT]

simbo said :

BerraBoy68 said :

Mælinar – *spoiler alert* I’ve seen S04E13 said :

I would advise you to do a little more research on the topic of internet forums and their changing role in society.

or even their role in changing society!

Do internet forums change society very much??

And first glance it would seem not, but let’s dig a little deeper. Before we all had daily access to internet (which is by definition a ‘forum’), these discussions could only take place in other commons – twenty years ago this was the local shopping centre, coffee shop or pub; 200 years ago it was the village square or town commons. News travelled infinitely slower – originally, even local news depended on people who knew what was going on being able to physically meet those who didn’t know, and their ability to then accurately relate the story. As technology progressed, add the telephone, the newspaper and the television in and news started travelling reasonably fast. Where the change between these mediums and the internet lie is in the ability for the people receiving the news to be able to respond. Of course, when news relied solely on word of mouth, response was easy, but the news travelled too slowly for it to be able to be easily disseminated (and certainly far from being broadcast, as it is now). Technology prior to the internet was all about getting information out – the trend to responding to, shaping and commenting on that information has only occurred in the past ten years or so.

Now that we not only broadcast information out to the masses, but that the masses can now respond with almost equal broadness, has changed the face of news in many ways. A common complaint is that news is often only disseminated now if people are likely to comment on it (what’s popular versus what’s important), but even that trend is shifting. Consider sites like polymeme.com, who use an algorithm specifically designed to find news that isn’t headlining on the major news sites, but that people are talking about on blogs and the like.

It may seem glacial to us since we’re in it, but in reality internet forums and the like have changed the way we view news and information – they’ve helped news become more accessible, more accountable and – most importantly – more specific and helpful to us as individuals. And it’s all happened rather quickly in historical terms.

Back on topic – I’m going to refrain from comment on the debate raging on this topic. That said, my heartfelt condolences to all those who have been touched by this tragedy. My thoughts are with you all.

L

I had a friend killed in broad daylight during roughly the same period of my school years and by strange coincidence, got to be an observer from the footpath.
(Here actually, but all they’ve done in the way of improvement in the last decade is put a street light up in the roundabout the driver sailed over and into oncoming traffic, and added a turning lane)
Mid 80’s Laser with an inexperienced driver vs speeding drunk-driven Datsun ute = unpretty.

Being able to talk about it was fairly helpful for the deceased’s families (and witnesses), but I’d imagine in a case where some of those involved are still alive its in everybody’s interests to wait for the investigations to finish and coronial findings to happen, before tearing strips off eachother.
(Or going out and covering suburbs in your emotional baggage)

As much as you people and families might like it to, the situation isn’t going to go away, and things aren’t going to be the way they used to be.

I didn’t actually ‘get over’ it, just had to cope, adapt, and learn to manage, or it probably would have eaten me alive.
And that kind of lesson isn’t easy to learn, when you’re in high school and trying to “Be a man” and deal with everything else.

FFS people!

Spell ‘ridiculous’ correctly!

Sorry Thumper, my bad. I actually know how to spell ‘ridiculous’ but lots of thoughts going through the head make the fingers not react as quickly as I’d like. Next time I’ll do a preview before posting. It shits me also when I see that.

Deadmandrinking10:57 am 14 Aug 08

astrosapien said :

I think one of the other disturbing trends with teenagers these days is that some of them will likely attempt to find solace through drinking alcohol or other substances. Of that number that will try to drink/smoke/pill away their woes, how many are likely to get behind the wheel of a car and put other people at risk. It must be so easy for all of this to spin out of control…

I feel for the people that have lost friends and family, but I hope they have sense enough to seek real help and not turn to alcohol etc as an easy out from their emotions

Kids have been doing that for a long time, so have many adults. It shouldn’t cost lives though (if this was the case). I hope your family members recover fully, I really do.

@Maleinar, although there was a massive evolution of communication between the 1600’s and the invention of the internet, I think you are right in some respects. The internet is changing society, most noticeably amongst the young, as we can see here. Gone are the days when kids heard about events like fights and vandalism down the line – they can see them on Youtube or Bebo or Myspace or whatever the hell.

What we’re seeing here is also one of the worser things about this change in how children and teens communicate. The friends of the girl who tragically lost her life really need to settle down. I know this behavior. When I was in year 7, a kid in year 10 died in tragic circumstances. The next day at school there was tears everywhere, emotions running high and a few fights over imagined blackening of the poor student’s name. The latter is a revenge instinct, I think, just like in this case.

These kids have had something horrible happen to them, something over which they have had no control and cannot do anything about. I think they’re acting this way because they feel they need to do something to set things right. I just hope they don’t imperil the police investigation or the journey of both families involved through what is going to be a very, very tough time.

To the friends, I say forget trying to defend this girl’s name against any real or imagined slights. This is the internet, people have a very detached sense of reality in their online persona’s. Stick together with your friends and give each other the love and support you all need, because in the end, that’s the only thing that’s going to get you through this.

astrosapien said :

Peterh,

I certainly wasn’t implying that teenagers aren’t the only ones that do this, although if that’s how it read I apologise. Substance abuse is a pretty big problem in Australia and seen as the quickest solution to whatever is getting people down for a lot of people. The main reason that I mentioned the teenagers in particular was more the fact that the girl who died was of high school/college age. No other reason.

Monkey1, thanks for the well wishes.

astrosapien, I wasn’t haviong a shot at you, I would have quoted you if i was. I have worked over the years for the YMCA, Church youth groups, Youth insearch, and other youth orientated organisations.

I have seen the damage caused by substance abuse in teens, withdrawal from society by children who have felt that because they can’t be happy, they might as well get used to living alone. I have seen a lot of really terrible things on canberra’s streets, and in places that kids should never be sent to, nor young adults.

BUT

I have seen kids turn their lives around, become achievers in school, work, life. I have seen kids become leaders, lawyers, doctors, all through someone taking the time to listen to them and ask them the right questions.

If the ACT government wants to help the youth of Canberra, create places where they can go, without fear from bullying, substance abuse, or finger pointing. Kids need somewhere to go to unwind… just like their parents.

The youth centres started out like this, but eventually, they became known places to purchase illegal substances. They have been cleaned out, but many teenagers won’t set foot in them.

they need a club environment where alcohol isn’t allowed.

Woody Mann-Caruso10:52 am 14 Aug 08

I know somebody and something bad happened to them. This gives me magical superpowers, including the ability to force people to obey me when I tell them what they can and can’t say.* SO SHUT UP!?!!1eleventy

*Superpowers may result in erratic punctuation. If excessive exclamation marks persist, please see your doctor.

Peterh,

I certainly wasn’t implying that teenagers aren’t the only ones that do this, although if that’s how it read I apologise. Substance abuse is a pretty big problem in Australia and seen as the quickest solution to whatever is getting people down for a lot of people. The main reason that I mentioned the teenagers in particular was more the fact that the girl who died was of high school/college age. No other reason.

Monkey1, thanks for the well wishes.

Well said astrosapien. I too share your concerns for the young ones affected by this and how they cope with this.

My heart goes out to all those involved in this tradegy in both cars. I know from reading the posts that you are a family member affected by this, I hope for a speedy recovery for you sister and her family, both physically and mentally.

let’s not just label teens with the alcohol / drugs tag, adults will do this too, and have done, to deal with serious stressful issues.

What these kids need is support. buckets of support from the community, their families and friends. Kids need to be led to support. A lot of teenagers won’t ask for help, as they will feel that they can handle the situation.

Parents need to recognise that their kids aren’t adults yet. they will need help, but it must be offered, not forced on them.

if they have a friendship with their counselor at school, their priest at their church, or perhaps a family friend that listens well, encourage them to speak to these people. Another way that has been successful for helping kids is to get them involved in helping others.

but, if they feel overwhelmed by the problems of others, be prepared to step in and assist them.

I think one of the other disturbing trends with teenagers these days is that some of them will likely attempt to find solace through drinking alcohol or other substances. Of that number that will try to drink/smoke/pill away their woes, how many are likely to get behind the wheel of a car and put other people at risk. It must be so easy for all of this to spin out of control…

I feel for the people that have lost friends and family, but I hope they have sense enough to seek real help and not turn to alcohol etc as an easy out from their emotions

Maybe the fact that there are people concerned about the community, even young ones, is a sign of the times. These kids will be the next generation, if they choose to “rat” on others doing the wrong thing, good on them. I would prefer to see this kind of behaviour in kids, rather than the continual destruction of bus shelters, though my bus stop is a concrete bunker. good luck wrecking that one.

Thanks Whatsup and Marlin74.

I totally agree, they shouldn’t be out roaming the streets and doing damage that we as the tax payer ultimately pay for.

While I understand these kids are hurting badly (my own child is affected also having known the deceased), I don’t condone them using it as a excuse to willfully damage property that is not theirs and I thank god my child has enough sense in this emotional time to know right from wrong!!

Monkey1: Nice comeback !

Marlin74 said :

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

monkey1 said :

As far as the spray painting incident goes, my child knows the four involved (photographed) and has given me their names to pass on to the authorities, along with the screen dumps of their bebo sites. Thankfully my child only knows them and is not friends with them.

Aren’t you dissapointed in your child for being a rat?

What are rediculous comment. If more people from the community did this we could greatly reduce the vandalism and petty crime in the ACT. How many times did they rebuid the bus shelter outside the Lanyon shops before idiots smashed all the glass again. Young punks with nothing better to do. Should be at home and roming the streets looking for things to destroy.

Keep it up I say.

I meant not roming the streets. Typing to fast again. Oopps

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

monkey1 said :

As far as the spray painting incident goes, my child knows the four involved (photographed) and has given me their names to pass on to the authorities, along with the screen dumps of their bebo sites. Thankfully my child only knows them and is not friends with them.

Aren’t you dissapointed in your child for being a rat?

What are rediculous comment. If more people from the community did this we could greatly reduce the vandalism and petty crime in the ACT. How many times did they rebuid the bus shelter outside the Lanyon shops before idiots smashed all the glass again. Young punks with nothing better to do. Should be at home and roming the streets looking for things to destroy.

Keep it up I say.

Marlin74 I’m referring to CH. It is a very emotional time there right now.

Eyeball, no I’m not disspointed in my child for being a rat! I’m rather proud that at least I’ve done a good enough of raising them to know right from wrong!

Mælinar - *spoiler alert* I've seen S04E1310:00 am 14 Aug 08

@EIAQJOS – depends on your interpretation of rat and responsible.

Mælinar - *spoiler alert* I've seen S04E139:58 am 14 Aug 08

@Simbo – while you didn’t direct the question at me, I pondered using ‘role in changing society’ over ‘changing role in society’ in my original post.

Yes, I think that the internet, with the ability to source massive amounts of information in a short time, the ability to have realtime communications about that information, and the ability to convey your opinion on that have had a role in changing society.

Gone are the days when the entire Dutch East Indies was managed via a 2 hour interview with the boss and irregular 6 monthly missals delivered by the fleet.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

monkey1 said :

As far as the spray painting incident goes, my child knows the four involved (photographed) and has given me their names to pass on to the authorities, along with the screen dumps of their bebo sites. Thankfully my child only knows them and is not friends with them.

Aren’t you dissapointed in your child for being a rat?

Not cool, dude… People shouldn’t be made out to be the bad guys for doing the right thing.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot9:51 am 14 Aug 08

monkey1 said :

As far as the spray painting incident goes, my child knows the four involved (photographed) and has given me their names to pass on to the authorities, along with the screen dumps of their bebo sites. Thankfully my child only knows them and is not friends with them.

Aren’t you dissapointed in your child for being a rat?

monkey1 said :

As far as the spray painting incident goes, my child knows the four involved (photographed) and has given me their names to pass on to the authorities, along with the screen dumps of their bebo sites. Thankfully my child only knows them and is not friends with them.

Emotions are running very high at the school with a lot of threats being made towards other kids for even mentioning the deceased’s name, hence I need to protect my child’s identity.

While I understand those kids close to the deceased are suffering understandable grief, I cannot agree with the defacing of public property. Plenty of the kids have left pictures and flowers at the scene, and there a few memorial groups set up on bebo for the kids to share their grief and have an outlet. I lost quite a few friends around the same age in similar circumstances, it is hard as a child to lose a friend, but not once did I go defacing public property to show my grief and then brag about it all over the internet (not that we had internet then).

It is funny that within minutes of me posting on here about the spray painting that the comment had been removed from the deceased’s bebo site and ‘Taylor’ involved had set their bebo to private!

Are you refering to LTC or CH? I have relatives at both schools and this concerns me.
Thanks

As far as the spray painting incident goes, my child knows the four involved (photographed) and has given me their names to pass on to the authorities, along with the screen dumps of their bebo sites. Thankfully my child only knows them and is not friends with them.

Emotions are running very high at the school with a lot of threats being made towards other kids for even mentioning the deceased’s name, hence I need to protect my child’s identity.

While I understand those kids close to the deceased are suffering understandable grief, I cannot agree with the defacing of public property. Plenty of the kids have left pictures and flowers at the scene, and there a few memorial groups set up on bebo for the kids to share their grief and have an outlet. I lost quite a few friends around the same age in similar circumstances, it is hard as a child to lose a friend, but not once did I go defacing public property to show my grief and then brag about it all over the internet (not that we had internet then).

It is funny that within minutes of me posting on here about the spray painting that the comment had been removed from the deceased’s bebo site and ‘Taylor’ involved had set their bebo to private!

Madman said :

OzAlien said :

Marlin74 said :

Marlin74
Don’t you just love it how the children magnify a situation.

Without wanting to drag this thread down further, and further inflame any petty arguments in light of this tragic loss, can I suggest you practice what you preach, instead of this “I was right, I know the facts, nobody else does” posting style you portray.

I understand emotions are running high, not least from within my own family over there in Australia, and the last thing I want them to read online is petty squabbles amongst so-called adults points scoring against ARs friends.

Yes its a public forum, but there’s a time and a place. Alittle respect please. Thanks for your time.

Hooley Dooley….. How many times have we got to explain…..

many, many times, it seems….

Thanks OzAlien,

It’s nice to see someone else urging people to be patient and to wait for the police report. Each side claiming that they “know what happened” is not going to do anything positive in the slightest.

This is extremely difficult for me. Considering that it was my sister, brother-in-law and nephews that were in the other car to the 15yr old, my first instinct is to jump on here and let my emotions take the best of me. Showing the restraint that I have done my best to have on here is difficult, but ultimately a lot more constructive than pointing fingers.

OzAlien said :

Marlin74 said :

Marlin74
Don’t you just love it how the children magnify a situation.

Without wanting to drag this thread down further, and further inflame any petty arguments in light of this tragic loss, can I suggest you practice what you preach, instead of this “I was right, I know the facts, nobody else does” posting style you portray.

I understand emotions are running high, not least from within my own family over there in Australia, and the last thing I want them to read online is petty squabbles amongst so-called adults points scoring against ARs friends.

Yes its a public forum, but there’s a time and a place. Alittle respect please. Thanks for your time.

Hooley Dooley….. How many times have we got to explain…..

Marlin74 said :

Marlin74
Don’t you just love it how the children magnify a situation.

Without wanting to drag this thread down further, and further inflame any petty arguments in light of this tragic loss, can I suggest you practice what you preach, instead of this “I was right, I know the facts, nobody else does” posting style you portray.

I understand emotions are running high, not least from within my own family over there in Australia, and the last thing I want them to read online is petty squabbles amongst so-called adults points scoring against ARs friends.

Yes its a public forum, but there’s a time and a place. Alittle respect please. Thanks for your time.

“If you didn’t know the driver, and I have for 10yrs, then you would know that alcohol and drugs were not contributing factors in this accident!!!

Well just to add to this….

I would seriously suggest that the hangers-on (and most are teens) get their facts ‘right’.

The rumours/Chinese whispers about this incident have led to serious threats against other teens.

As a parent one of the thing that worries me the most is when my kids grow up,and will want to try and do “adult things”.
Perhaps i had a different upbringing, but i dont understand why kids need to go out so late for parties.

Sad situation all round.

BerraBoy68 said :

Mælinar – *spoiler alert* I’ve seen S04E13 said :

I would advise you to do a little more research on the topic of internet forums and their changing role in society.

or even their role in changing society!

Do internet forums change society very much??

Look, I’m not arguing that comment threads are a bad thing. What I’m arguing is that they’re .. a place. And I understand the temptation of people like Affected, who are, well, very affected by the subject at hand to post, particularly when strongly emotional. And one of the things about free speech (and, despite claims to the contrary, RiotAct is relatively free in this regards) is that … people are free to speak back. They’ll often say stuff that’s completely nonsensical and often factually irrelevant crap.

The nice thing about this is, if they are talking crap, they’re usually found out remarkably quickly and condemn themselves out of their own mouths pretty quickly, because pretty soon all the available supporting evidence will contradict them completely. The bad thing is… you have to wait for the supporting evidence to come out, and in the meantime you have nutbars spouting nonsense.

Affected – Welcome to the world of forums.

These are public forums, public meaning everyone can see it, and everyone can reply.
If you post on this forum, and expect not to have replies which turn into debates, it’s time to pull your head out of the sand.

I lost a friend last Tuesday, Who I knew for 12 years, And it was also posted on this forum, and also had a debate about it. I do understand how hard it is to lose a friend.

But if your going to post something on a PUBLIC forum, expect replies/debates/arguments.

“If you didn’t know the driver, and I have for 10yrs, then you would know that alcohol and drugs were not contributing factors in this accident!!!

It is so hurtful to hear the rumours and outright lies that are spreading their way around Canberra!

If your not 100% sure of the details, then mind your own freaking business because the words you write are damaging the lives of those involved – had some respect for A.W!!!”

Affected,

I understand that you, like so many others on this forum, are running high with emotion over this incident, but can I suggest that you do not attempt to profess that you know “100% of the details”. If the police haven’t even got “100% of the details” then it is certain that you do not either, regardless of who you have spoken to.

And on damaging the lives of those involved… Spare a thought for a moment for the family that was in the other car. Your friends weren’t the only people in this crash, and the way that you are going on about knowing “100% of the details” is having just as much impact on my sister and her family as other comments on this board may have on the families of your friends. It’s all well and good to expect the respect that you feel your friend deserves, but at least show the same courtesy to my family and keep quiet until such time as the police have released their report. The information that they provide is going to be the ONLY version of events that is unbiased and with all the facts. Talking to your friends whether they were in the car or not will not, and in that same vein, I also concede that what I have heard from my sister and her husband are also not all of the facts.

It’s a two-way street, Affected.

Thanks

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot1:23 am 14 Aug 08

I overheard that the crash was caused when the driver transmutated into the form of KALI and set out to destroy her enemies?

That’s just what I heard though……

Hmmm, interesting… These kids are losing their credibility fast…

Hey Ant,

Yeh I had the same issue on the other thread hence replying on this one.
I’m glad it’s not just me.

An Update for all. The 18 y/o driver was released from hospital today just leaving my sister in-law there for who knows how long. I guess I was right in saying earlier that she was not in intensive care. In fact she never was. Don’t you just love it how the children magnify a situation.

There’s this weird bug where, once there’s a certain number of posts on a topic, some browsers go wonky and everything disappears, you can’t reply or read the OP. I had 2 versions of MS explorer and it happened with both of them.

As for the angry kiddies, I wonder why they didn’t go and spray paint the road? As apparently it was all the road’s fault. Bad road.

Yeah I can’t post on it either, the thread title and text under it disapears then only the comments stay.

i thought you might like to know this. i have talked to taylor’s friends and the only thing taylor did was be there while the other people did it. she took pictures with it but not at any time did she spray paint. she was there though. she did have the photos on her bebo but she has deleted them out of respect for people who were offended. this is what i have been told.

I hope the Police talk to Taylor then to investigate who was the actual spray painter so that they can clean it up, and repay their debt to the valley. This is a place people live and not a whiteboard.

I blame god, society, the government, the universe, global warming, the garbage bin down on the corner, and my little toe.

Well, I wish to register my disappointment at the lack of text-speak, rude words and rampant mis-spelling. However the other usual features were there. The multiple exclamation marks were new though. The OP might start a new fashion.

x-taylorr

I wanted to reply to you on the other thread but for some reason I am unable, firstly let me say how sickening sorry I am for you, your friends and especially A.R’s family for your loss. I lost my 30 y/o step sister only in May this year and know what grief is. My anger and dispointment is not directed towards A.R, she is the ultimate victim in this tragedy. I would like to question however how well you know the driver and where you are getting your information from. A.W is NOT in intensive care. In fact I can give you her bed number if you like? If you really know as much as you claim to then making outragous comments as to weather she was under the influence or not then telling everyone she was clean on the night in question is an absolute joke and quite frankly insulting. I have said it before and will repeat myself again, I can’t wait unitl the official police report is released and we can continue this agruement infront of the whole community.

I felt the need to respond to this crap as the father of the two boys from the black car called me in absolute disgust with your comments.

Please feel free to make whatever comment you see fit, but please ensure it is somewhat factual.

Mælinar – *spoiler alert* I’ve seen S04E13 said :

I would advise you to do a little more research on the topic of internet forums and their changing role in society.

or even their role in changing society!

With regards to the original post, no, he didn’t raise it.

“Hammo” made the first post and it was all about condolences. Sizer’s involvement was brought to RA readers attention thanks to a JB update to the original story.

All of which is irrelevant anyway. The discussions has evolved. We’re talking about a number of issues – condolences, political involvement and how appropriate it is, causes, ramifications, where to go from here etc.

Our attention was focussed on the issue by poor judgement from a political candidate, which is what the original story was about.
Not as a condolence.

Your assertion that James Sizer was offering condolences to the families pales when compared to a more cynical view that he was acting as an upcoming candidate trying to build a profile by offering social comment.

He raised it, go blame him for trying to score the political points.

Thanks for your request.

*back to the discussion thread*

Mælinar - *spoiler alert* I've seen S04E134:41 pm 13 Aug 08

Pleading to people to stop posting here is like asking the ABC to take down a story on their website.

I have taken great pains to remain cordial Affected, but I would advise you to do a little more research on the topic of internet forums and their changing role in society.

No post equals no comment. Simple.

I know it probably sounds cruel, heartless, whatever but people have the right to say what they want for better or worse.

My advice for those who are finding this is working them up too much because they are too close to it is to maybe step away, let the story fizzle out and concentrate on yoursleves rather than worrying about what other people are saying because they will say it anyway.

The one thing about people is they’re all different and you’re not going to change the mind of someone who doesn’t want to change.

If you know the real facts behind the situation and you know what’s right in your heart then what strangers say shouldn’t matter anyway.

And that being said, I drive on that road twice minumum a day on my motorbike and can say that peice of road is far better then alot of other roads. The only problem is the minimal lighting at night.

And I’m not making any comments that it wasn’t the roads fault and it was the drivers blah blah blah etc etc etc, so don’t throw it back in my face pls

Deadmandrinking4:21 pm 13 Aug 08

I agree people have the right to comment. I’m not going to speculate on the crash because I don’t know the details or the people. I can only hope the family and friends receive the support they need to get through what must be a terrible time and hope that the survivors make speedy and full recoveries.

However, what irked me was how the Community Alliance guy commented on it. Sure, a crash on a stretch of road can raise concerns about the condition of that road, but to use language that may be considered accusatory, by saying that a labor government decision or lack thereof has cost a family too much, so soon after the tragedy and so soon before an election is poor and disrespectful in my opinion. Perhaps it could have been commented on with a little more tact, such as simply stating a commitment to fix that stretch of road. Perhaps even only after an official investigation found that the accident was caused by the road. The road may not have been the cause. I don’t know and neither does the guy from the community alliance.

I was more interested in why the CAP candidate decided that he should bag the govt, instead of being constructive and pose ideas about how we could work to avoid it happening again.

terrible thing to happen, but the blame game never works.

In regards to the comment by the original poster, “She will live with this for the rest of her life… think about it and shut up!!!!” please consider that some of us have lost friends and relatives over the years through accidents, crashes etc. in my case, several friends on Canberra’s roads, and a couple through plane crashes. (one of which was a guy i had only spoken to the day before, then 9/11…) We who are left behind think about these events in our lives every single day. We come to the RA site to discuss issues that have an impact on the community.

The death of your friend is a talking point – we (using we as the community) want to know how it happened, why it happened, and what can we do to prevent it happening again.

Some of us are parents. the last thing that I want to find out is one of my children is injured or worse, due to a lack of action by the government in power at the time. (my kids are around the same age as the littlies in the other car) It makes me feel ill at the thought of it.

we need to have a forum to express our feelings, and this site allows us to do so.

It also allows us to discuss all manner of issues, news items, etc.

To the OP, with all due respect unless you’re a person involved in the investigation of this tragedy you don’t know the circumstances of what happened either, so you are no more enlightened than the rest of us.

You may well have know the driver for 10 years, but you weren’t there when the accident happened.

She may well live with it for the rest of her life, but there is also someone who no longer has one.

I am not apportioning any blame whatsoever, but until the investigation is complete no-one but the Police of the crash investigation team will know exactly what happened.

This is a sad event, and not helped by what you say. We live in a democracy and, like it or not, people have a right to comment

Your message is written so well!!!

All those exclamation marks must be they’re for a great reason!!!!!!

Their are so many exlamation marks their, I hardly know where their coming from!!!!!11one

Yeah I know JB, I know….

Right of reply for everyone Madman.

Couldn’t this had just been posted with the rest of the disgust comments in the original forum… Hooley Dooley.

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