Canberra for stoners?

Whilst spiking weed is not a very common practice, it does happen. A big thing in the states at the moment is soaking it in Formaldehyde and then smoking it. However, it will kill you if you do it regularly. Not one dealer i have ever met would consider doing such a thing because who wants dead clients? They dont come back next friday for more and tend to stop spending money when they die. And lacing is just not cost effective because it does not work most of the time (Fire changes chemicals).

If i theoretically bought the devils lettuce and found that it was not up to scratch, i would just get it elsewhere. I personally think that if a dealer was doing that they would not stay in business very long as word gets around very fast.

This was “pot”entially a funny thread that a few people took too seriously (Dont drink gin and read RA).

What a load of crap Peterh. You been smoking the whacky weed in PB porche.

You ####### #####

> some dealers do it to get the customer “hooked” on their particular varieties. they lace the weed with another additive to increase the “buzz” or High that you will receive

In the roughly 25 years of smoking the stuff that I did (I don’t do it anymore, I traded pot & cigarettes for triathlons) I have to say that I’ve never, ever experienced this myself or known of anyone that has ever purchased laced pot….& in my opinion, the whole “they wean you on to harder drugs” theory is rubbish.

peterh said :

p1 said :

Why would you spike weed? That seems crazy, kinda like spiking vodka?

some dealers do it to get the customer “hooked” on their particular varieties. they lace the weed with another additive to increase the “buzz” or High that you will receive. Some types of lace are deadly, dependent on the interaction with the human system. oleander is one. The dealer expects the user to only ingest a small amount, but in the event of a dutch oven in a car or room, the amount of the laced smoke increases dramatically.

Lace is also used to wean a hard core user off weed and onto a more powerful drug. The dealer knows that the cost of this other substance is far greater and will net them more profit.

Very true and a very good reason for legalisation.

p1 said :

Why would you spike weed? That seems crazy, kinda like spiking vodka?

some dealers do it to get the customer “hooked” on their particular varieties. they lace the weed with another additive to increase the “buzz” or High that you will receive. Some types of lace are deadly, dependent on the interaction with the human system. oleander is one. The dealer expects the user to only ingest a small amount, but in the event of a dutch oven in a car or room, the amount of the laced smoke increases dramatically.

Lace is also used to wean a hard core user off weed and onto a more powerful drug. The dealer knows that the cost of this other substance is far greater and will net them more profit.

Many academics have to publish a certain number of journal articles a year to keep their jobs.

So not every journal article is groundbreaking research.

Dope smoking has always been an issue where the truth of health impacts is hard to get at, cos people are passionately for smoking, or violently against it.

1 gram is not 20 cones worth of weed.

Why would you spike weed? That seems crazy, kinda like spiking vodka?

JESUS CHRIST! $100 of weed in one day?

Of course if you always have a couple of plants on the go, this isn’t necessarily costing you $700 a week. On the other hand, not many people could grow that much , without then succumbing to the temptation to sell a little, thus potentially winding up in all sorts of other trouble.

dexi said :

I would want my money back if it didn’t have an effect.

what if it was laced with trank, arsenic or another equally nasty additive?

the effect would be pretty nasty, and you might not be in a position to ask for anything back.

oleander was a popular lace a while ago…

When I dream, I want a Porsche.

I would want my money back if it didn’t have an effect.

Any government that legalised drugs would be nothing like this one or the last one, I don’t think. At least a little more objective when it comes to taking care of the people.

Which is why I used the term “society” not “goovt”, Jakez. Education as to the best possible choice has been (in my own small way) the aim of my participation in this debate.

Pommy bastard said :

I partially agree with you Jakez, but would add the caveat: “people should be allowed to do as they wish, but society has a duty to educate to allow the best informed choice.”

Mate, the way most people think about the role of Government these days, I’ll take your position in a heart beat.

justbands said :

> Call me uncool and ignorant but I have to ask from the above story. What is a ‘quarter’ and is that considered a lot to consume in one day?

One quarter of one ounce…around $100 worth. Yes, that’s a LOT of pot to consume in one day.

JESUS CHRIST! $100 of weed in one day?

See that’s ridiculous. Hell, water is toxic at a certain level of consumption (everything is). If you are going to do insane amounts of anything then you are headed for trouble.

I partially agree with you Jakez, but would add the caveat: “people should be allowed to do as they wish, but society has a duty to educate to allow the best informed choice.”

…think it was wrong to use force to prevent people from using it.

Defensive force is an entirely different matter of course.

Also, I largely agree with Deadman (although I’m not sure I’d advocate for as much Government involvement as he does, depending on what he means by regulation and where the education comes from). I definitely do not think drugs are for everyone. There are some people out there who can use drugs and be perfectly find and there are others out there who simply can’t handle it (and this is an aside to the potential mental health affects). However at the end of the day, the war on drugs is not the right way to offset these problems.

I’ll take it further than most people as a libertarian and say that people absolutely have the right to harm themselves to an extreme degree and that there should be no legal block to self harm (note the distinction between self harm and harm to others).

I still think most drugs are a bad idea (particularly alcohol and I’m only a very occasional user) and the merits of use are a separate issue to the merits of legality.

Frankly, I could think that cannabis is really really harmful and I’d still

a quarter is about 7 grams
One gram is usually about 20 ‘cones’ (Correct me if I’m wrong pls ppl)

Also are natural – poisens found in the garden (didn’t a woman try to poisen her husband a few years back with the ‘natural’ plant from her garden), also Datura is found growing naturally also.

jakes – a quarter is .25 of an ounce.
An ounce is how bulk Marijuana is sold
28g in an ounce so a quarter is 7 grams
As a consumer, I coul dpurchase 1.2 grams @ $25 and that woul dbe enough for me and a friend for the night.

Times that roughly by 6 and you have your quarter.

> Call me uncool and ignorant but I have to ask from the above story. What is a ‘quarter’ and is that considered a lot to consume in one day?

One quarter of one ounce…around $100 worth. Yes, that’s a LOT of pot to consume in one day.

(Not directed at anyone posting but…) People who claim that pot is natural and is ok are fools – Death Cap mushies are natural.

In my experience pot can be both detrimental and harmless.

To say something will effect EVERYONE the same way would be pretty silly.

I accept that a lot of people are longterm useres with nil (evident yet) effects and some people such as myself were recreational users over a decade ago who got instant just add water paranoia whilst under the influence of THC.

Marijuana will effect everyone differently, as does alcohol and other medications.

To say it has nil effects would be a very blinkered approach, it just effects people differently.

Call me uncool and ignorant but I have to ask from the above story. What is a ‘quarter’ and is that considered a lot to consume in one day?

It’s about midway between either extremes, PB. I do believe we are fed a lot of cock and bull by those who benefit from pot being illegal, and that we are fed a lot of cock and bull by those who’ve had too much.

Yes, there are risks. However, we shouldn’t be relying on the government to make decisions for us.

Excellent thoughts DMD.

I think the problem lies with those, mainly of my generation, who still believe that pot is harmless, and continue to push the fantasy that”hey look, I’ve smoked it for years and it hasn’t done me any harm.”

Also, those who would benefit from its sale and consumption will push the “natural high, has to be safe,” line.

good post dmd

My god any use of cannabis amongst children/young adults should be stopped.

Sticking ferrets with nails should be stopped. Wait ill just google that for a reference.

sorry to double post, I meant, ‘Pot is not that harmful for everyone. In fact, for most people, it just makes them slower and so on.’

Look, honestly, I think the answer to this argument is simple.

Education, Assistance and Regulation.

Three sweet words.

Pot is not harmless for everyone. In fact, for most people it makes them slower. If you have a history of mental illness, you can get some pretty bad side-effects, like what Danman was talking about. Danman, I assume, chose to stop by himself…

This is the part where education comes into play. People need to make choices by themselves. Individual choice is what drives us as a society. People need to be able to make a decision and accept the consequences, not have society do it for them all the time.

This is where Education comes into play. People need to be correctly and IMPARTIALLY informed of what pot is and what the effects are. Good information is not scare tactics and corny grim reaper pamphlets.

Of course, some people make the wrong choices for themselves and end up needing a bit of help. It is society’s duty to make sure that the right help is available for it’s citizens, so that those who fall into deep holes can get back on track.

Finally, with anything that is consumed so widely as pot, regardless of it’s legal status – you think somewhere down the line it should have some form of regulation – to ensure consumers are economically and financially protected.

The fact is, current drug laws hinder all these things and allow drugs to exist in a chaotic underworld from where it is easily accessed. We cannot get rid of drugs. That has been tried and it has failed. Repeatedly.

It is time for a change.

They seemed to be fine all through school. getting high at lunch time, wasted on the weekends. Still probably had problems – but managed to still get good grades and have a fair idea about the direction of their life. No major paranoa or more need for the drug than anyone else. That is what is strange. And they were always quite smart too. I guess they weren’t looking out for the warning signs..

Its hard to determine where that line was that they crossed when they just gave themselves over to addiction though…
That is why I try not to stereotype “junkies” or “druggies” cos you never know what there were – or who they can go on to be.

Beserk Keyboard Warrior said :

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough:
Journals are generally rubbish, and I’m saying this as an academic. They’re just written by people trying to make a name for themselves in a particular field, hence the sensationalised angles. Real researchers don’t need their name lit up like Times Square.

Utter hogwash, all academics publish their works in journals so that they can be peer reviewed. In fact, without having had peer reviewed work in a journal you cannot and will not be considered an academic.

And before you ask, I do not have dreadlocks.

Me neither.

justbands said :

Some medical journals are more respected than others. From memory, The British Medical Journal (BMJ) is the bees-knees.

From the BMJ;

Although most young people use cannabis in adolescence without harm, a vulnerable minority experience harmful outcomes. A tenth of the cannabis users by age 15 in our sample (3/29) developed schizophreniform disorder by age 26 compared with 3% of the remaining cohort (22/730). Our findings suggest that cannabis use among psychologically vulnerable adolescents should be strongly discouraged by parents, teachers, and health practitioners. Policy makers and law makers should concentrate on delaying onset of cannabis use.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/325/7374/1212?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=cannabis+early+psychosis&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

FC said :

A friend of mine started uses pot and other drugs in early teenage years and hit the harder druggs around 17. They got invovled in a pretty nasty relationships, moved into public housing(while still at school) and hit the pot pretty hard to deal with the anxiety/depressiong stemming from that relationship, the lifestyle and probably the drugs also (a chicken or the egg situation I guess).
they went to drug rehab (mainly for pot as soon as they’d quit one things they’d pick up another), when they were in their late teens. (for pot mainly – they used to smoke at least a quarter a day) Had to leave all their old friends out of their “new” life.
Lots of mental health issues came up but now they had lost their previous coping mechanism. They had to re learn how to live, how to have fun, how to engage with people.

Got out, got a base level job in the PS, saw counsellers a LOT and had support workers through the various wonderful commnunity organisations out there..
They worked there way up in their organistaion, began to deal one by one with all their prblems and worked hard to save up money while doing this.
3 years late they bought a house.
Meeting this person now you would never have any idea the life they used to lead.

So there’s a positive story for the-riotact

A “friend of mine” haha that ole chestnut. Props for turning things around though FC.

FC said :

A friend of mine started uses pot and other drugs in early teenage years and hit the harder druggs around 17. They got invovled in a pretty nasty relationships, moved into public housing(while still at school) and hit the pot pretty hard to deal with the anxiety/depressiong stemming from that relationship, the lifestyle and probably the drugs also (a chicken or the egg situation I guess).
they went to drug rehab (mainly for pot as soon as they’d quit one things they’d pick up another), when they were in their late teens. (for pot mainly – they used to smoke at least a quarter a day) Had to leave all their old friends out of their “new” life.
Lots of mental health issues came up but now they had lost their previous coping mechanism. They had to re learn how to live, how to have fun, how to engage with people.

Got out, got a base level job in the PS, saw counsellers a LOT and had support workers through the various wonderful commnunity organisations out there..
They worked there way up in their organistaion, began to deal one by one with all their prblems and worked hard to save up money while doing this.
3 years late they bought a house.
Meeting this person now you would never have any idea the life they used to lead.

So there’s a positive story for the-riotact

that results from kicking free of the habit. if you try pot, and the resulting reaction isn’t good, paranoia, stress, etc, then don’t keep using. this is what needs to be drummed into some kids trying it now. pot will give you an indicator if it is actually ok for you to use it, most don’t catch the warning signs…

A friend of mine started uses pot and other drugs in early teenage years and hit the harder druggs around 17. They got invovled in a pretty nasty relationships, moved into public housing(while still at school) and hit the pot pretty hard to deal with the anxiety/depressiong stemming from that relationship, the lifestyle and probably the drugs also (a chicken or the egg situation I guess).
they went to drug rehab (mainly for pot as soon as they’d quit one things they’d pick up another), when they were in their late teens. (for pot mainly – they used to smoke at least a quarter a day) Had to leave all their old friends out of their “new” life.
Lots of mental health issues came up but now they had lost their previous coping mechanism. They had to re learn how to live, how to have fun, how to engage with people.

Got out, got a base level job in the PS, saw counsellers a LOT and had support workers through the various wonderful commnunity organisations out there..
They worked there way up in their organistaion, began to deal one by one with all their prblems and worked hard to save up money while doing this.
3 years late they bought a house.
Meeting this person now you would never have any idea the life they used to lead.

So there’s a positive story for the-riotact

BKW Well said.

Just stay of the piss, that stuff will kill ya.

Some medical journals are more respected than others. From memory, The British Medical Journal (BMJ) is the bees-knees.

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough:

I’m not sayinf psychosis disappears after age 21!! But you only get it IF you smoke heavily while the brain is immature. If you start smoking at say age 25, you have nothing to worry about.

Journals are generally rubbish, and I’m saying this as an academic. They’re just written by people trying to make a name for themselves in a particular field, hence the sensationalised angles. Real researchers don’t need their name lit up like Times Square.

And before you ask, I do not have dreadlocks.

Beserk Keyboard Warrior said :

Goddammit!!

A perfectly innocuous thread about smoking a little bit of green stuff turns into a neuropsychology debate amongst keyboard intellects who regurgitate sensationalised and obscure journal articles that have bugger all empirical value.

Let me clarify things in layman’s terms: If you don’t punch cones while your brain is still developing (i.e. <21) then you’re home free.

End of debate.

(Kicka$$ thread by the way).

Not end of debate, unfortunately.

Latent psychosis does not go away after 21, it is life long. Also even without the predilection to psychosis; as the frontal-lobe development continues until age 25 or later, there is still a risk full blown psychosis will be engendered if you start smoking dope after 21 yrs.

BTW: I do not consider the work of;

American Journal of Epidemiology.
Journal of Psychopharmacology,
National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre, University of New South Wales,
Department of Psychiatry, University Medical Center Utrecht, the Netherlands

“obscure journal articles”, why do you?

There’s disagreements on certain things, such as hedges.

Deadmandrinking said :

Nah, I did and we’re fine.

all of you?

Nah, I did and we’re fine.

dexi said :

Blame the mentaly ill for their disease. Good one. “If only you hadn’t done drugs you would be sane. ” Just be normal will you, damn it”

The thread was about fun things to do stoned. Maybe some of you can tell us how its not fun to be stoned. I might believe that too.

Some of you wasted a lot of time telling us about stuff most of you don’t even care about. I know us druggies are all scumbags. You have told us so. So why give a fuck.

You missed the one and only thing you need to argue with. “Pot is an addictive substance.”

Keh???

Goddammit!!

A perfectly innocuous thread about smoking a little bit of green stuff turns into a neuropsychology debate amongst keyboard intellects who regurgitate sensationalised and obscure journal articles that have bugger all empirical value.

Let me clarify things in layman’s terms: If you don’t punch cones while your brain is still developing (i.e. <21) then you’re home free.

End of debate.

(Kicka$$ thread by the way).

Thanks for the clarification Jakez, much appreciated,.

I don’t keep a stock or list of articles but use;

http://scholar.google.com.au/

for references.

Best wishes,

PB.

Whoa Pommy Bastard, I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. Considering I have a cousin who is currently in the mental ward, I’m not at all saying there isn’t a possible link and that everyone should smoke it every day and we can dance around the may pole together. I can’t remember who it was above but they basically explained what I meant and that it was more a general warning about what happens when the media reports on published articles. Sounds like we’ve come to different conclusions but I’m definitely not saying that there is no evidence.

Anyway, I’d love to get my hands on some of those articles (I’ve been meaning to build my stockpile of ‘pro link’ articles, as until recently I haven’t put much stock on keeping the stuff I’ve read to my detriment) and it sounds like you have citations at the ready. Perhaps we could get in touch off site (email or something) and share some info?

dexi said :

Blame the mentaly ill for their disease. Good one. “If only you hadn’t done drugs you would be sane. ” Just be normal will you, damn it”

Ah, the old invisible writing. I wish I knew which button I had to press to find out where someone had invisibly written; “If only you hadn’t done drugs you would be sane. “

Can someone point me at it?

I like going up to my friends house having a few drinks and a puff on a joint and rollerskating to 80’s music:)

Blame the mentaly ill for their disease. Good one. “If only you hadn’t done drugs you would be sane. ” Just be normal will you, damn it”

The thread was about fun things to do stoned. Maybe some of you can tell us how its not fun to be stoned. I might believe that too.

Some of you wasted a lot of time telling us about stuff most of you don’t even care about. I know us druggies are all scumbags. You have told us so. So why give a fuck.

You missed the one and only thing you need to argue with. “Pot is an addictive substance.”

Sssshhhh… Granny, he might hear you and look in this thread/ 🙂

*chuckle*

Peterh, you’ve just told the whole world – let alone BerraBoy! That was really nice of you though.

Granny said :

I find Peterh’s story of giving up alcohol to be very encouraging.

I think with this kind of thing it’s up to the individual to turn their life around. As a friend you can only be there for them. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped, but you can still treat them with dignity and compassion. If they are having a very destructive effect on your life, however, this may eventually result in the need to go separate ways.

i had a coopers vintage. great beer, and i will await the next one.
don’t tell berraboy, but I gave away the magnum of moet to someone who had just had a baby… they will crack it on their son’s 21st.

I find Peterh’s story of giving up alcohol to be very encouraging.

I think with this kind of thing it’s up to the individual to turn their life around. As a friend you can only be there for them. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped, but you can still treat them with dignity and compassion. If they are having a very destructive effect on your life, however, this may eventually result in the need to go separate ways.

willo said :

why is that trotted out every time the harmful effects of pot are mentioned?

If it were just mentioned I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but whenever this topic comes up, and it comes up a lot, the prejudice and ignorance of some posters is beyond belief.

Peterh’s story above is incredibly sad, as are some of the other accounts here, but for every story like those I’d wager there’s 1000 similar stories with alcohol as the root cause. Just trying to bring some balance to this debate, that is all.

I’d like to hear from people who have helped a drug-abusing friend turn their life around. How about something encouraging and positive on RiotACT rather than all this vitriol and one-upmanship?

xdave said :

how much more do I need to find out?

I don’t really care to meet him, its not a best friends competition
I can only make my opinion on him from what he puts out there (or here) – and yeah, Granny, he really sounds heaps accepting! :\

Why can’t he explain his own story properly? Instead of just coming off as a callous bastard

willo: alot like alcohol, yeh? and thats legal so that makes it right?

my mate was, before he got into pot, a successful, wealthy businessman.

He blew the lot on pot. over several years. lost his home, and his family.

He has trouble remembering the day of the week and the time. He now has dementia, and it saddens me to see him reduced to relying on a carer for the rest of his life. he is a shambling husk of his former glory.

I am not being callous towards him, it is the way i post sometimes. I feel privileged to have known him when he was mentally all there. I also feel privileged that he taught me a valuable lesson, I never touched the stuff to that extent, i tried it, went all paranoid and stopped.

he will never know of the memories that make life so important to others. the birth of his first child, he cannot remember. He was there, and called me afterwards. His wife’s 30th birthday, that he meticulously organised. gone forever. He will only hear of the events of his life in the third person.

That is the damage that this drug will do. That is why I don’t do it, I want to preserve every experience.

alcohol is another matter. 3-years now, one beer at christmas.

Are you advocating I use drugs John? For shame, that’s way outside my social norms. 🙂

Yeah a nice legal over the counter St Johns Wort or something…

Can’t imagine how much funnier this would have been if I was wasted. :o)

Time to take a chill pill PB.

Bollocks, I hate it when I do that, my apologies PBO.

Umm, I was agreeing with you.

PBO said :

It affects all people differently, whilst some may be more prone to the potential of schizophrenic disorders, others may not be.

Yes, I know. Did you not avctually read what I posted?

Alcohol is far more dangerous and causes more deaths and problems and if you doubt it then check the stats.

a) Where have I said anything that would indicate a need for me to check the facts?

b) Strychnine is more dangerous than alcohol, does it therefore mean that all people are ok to drink alcohol?

Generally you have to be predisposed to a disorder and the drug is a trigger.

Yes, and?

Pommy bastard said :

dexi said :

Mental illness is a large group of illness’s, not limited to psychosis. Some people may find some “relief” to some symptoms of some mental illnesses.

Not so absurd and not so dangerous.

Absurd and dangerous. Anyone with a condition affecting the brain, thoughts and emotions, who add a psychoactive chemical into the equation is exacerbating the complexity of the illness on the brain.

It affects all people differently, whilst some may be more prone to the potential of schizophrenic disorders, others may not be. Alcohol is far more dangerous and causes more deaths and problems and if you doubt it then check the stats. Generally you have to be predisposed to a disorder and the drug is a trigger.

dexi said :

Mental illness is a large group of illness’s, not limited to psychosis. Some people may find some “relief” to some symptoms of some mental illnesses.

Not so absurd and not so dangerous.

Absurd and dangerous. Anyone with a condition affecting the brain, thoughts and emotions, who add a psychoactive chemical into the equation is exacerbating the complexity of the illness on the brain.

Oh, you can have as many hydroponic plants as you like….

“artificially cultivated cannabis plants” is a bit vague isn’t it? Does that mean anything that didn’t self-seed from last years crop?

“(excluding all hydroponically or artificially cultivated cannabis plants)”

Ummm, so what happens in that case? Are you allowed to have as many plants as you want, some other arbitary number, or none?

Willo I suppose it comes down to hypocrisy. Its a natural law.

dont forget ya video camera…..that has potential for some good footage

I think getting stoned and doing some parkour on a war memorial might be more fun than/then this thread.

and who here or anywhere else has said that it is okay? that argument is so old and ridiculous it’s barely worth commenting on….why is that trotted out every time the harmful effects of pot are mentioned? and why do you pro pot clowns always assume that if someone is against pot then they are all for tobacco and alcohol? that argument is not even logical get a new one ffs….

Jebus… A drug is a drug is a drug – abuse it and you’re headed for trouble.

A handful of THC triggered psychosis cases in people predisposed to mental illness is a terrible scourge on society. Yet tens of thousands of deaths and over 140,000 hospitalisations per year from nicotine related illnesses is apparently ok?

Mental illness is a large group of illness’s, not limited to psychosis. Some people may find some “relief” to some symptoms of some mental illnesses.

Not so absurd and not so dangerous.

RuffnReady said :

Pommy bastard said :

You can also google up anecdotal evidence on cannabis and psychosis, if you wish, and the fact remains that cannabis is implicated.

I’m still awaiting Jakez to show any evidence that the association is just media hype.

I think Jakez may be referring to the way that media distorts the true state of the scientific knowledge. There is undoubtedly a link between cannabis and triggering a number of mental disorders in those predisposed to mental illness, however you’ll find the same kind of links with alcohol, which is generally left unsaid by the media. Also, certainly cannabis has been shown to have a greater detrimental effect on developing brains (ie teenagers), but so does alcohol, which is rarely mentioned. Would that have anything to do with alcohol being a “legitimate” drug? And a drug that is widely advertised through media? Of course it would. That is the kind of media distortion he may have been referring to.

It also bothers me the way that pot, MDMD, speed/ice, cocaine and heroin are all lumped together by the media under the term “drugs”. Each has a different history, effect, risk of dependency, etc. and should be treated as such.

If you have a family history of mental illness, it is wise to stay away from all mind-altering substances, that is pretty clear. However, I would argue that pot causes far less aggregate social harm than alcohol, and that Canberra’s approach to it is correct – don’t legalise it (which would legitimise it in the eyes of kids), but continue the decriminalisation approach that seems to be working well.

I have to say that I agree with almost all of your post.

A couple of pointers to the general populace; we were discussing cannabis, not booze, and no relative harm though, were we not?

Some one said that all or most of the report show cannabis is “mostly harmless”, this is patently untrue.

eg:

Results confirm previous suggestions that cannabis use increases the risk of both the incidence of psychosis in psychosis-free persons and a poor prognosis for those with an established vulnerability to psychotic disorder.

American Journal of Epidemiology:Volume 156(4)15 August 2002pp 319-327

I’ll happily find five which say it is culpable in psychosis, for every one which says it isn’t.

Sepi says that

sepi said :

Drug use for those with mental illness can also normalise some of their issues.

eg – everyone is setting around giggling and staring into space, not just me.

Absurd and dangerous.

Here is a simple and incontestable fact; Cannabis can trigger psychosis in those vulnerable to it, and can give episodes of psychosis top young people without that vulnerability.

Sure, smoke yourself green if you wish, and we all know someone who has smoked fifty joints a day since he was five, and he’s ok,”* don’t we?

But keep your kids away from it until they are AT LEAST in their 20’s.

*He’s also an unwashed hippy bum, who looks like he’s not had a synapse fire since 1968, never had a job, and still thinks that the Grateful Dead are “groovy”. But hey! It’s his life maaaan

If you abuse substances they’re going to come back and bite. I don’t see a problem with the odd vaporiser (the new in thing in Amsterdam) of weed or a slice of spacecake.

this is making me reminisce about an old mate of mine…..smoked more weed than you would thimk humanly possible and didnt really seem to do him any damage…we were both skippers on prawn trawlers in the torres strait at the time, a place and occupation that you really have to be on the ball or the consequences can be drastic…..anyway this bloke could operate equally well stoned or not and when there was no pot available to him it didnt affect him at all (well he did constantly winge about it)in fact it almost changed my views on potsmoking and the side effects altogether cos john just did not have any……few years on and he died of throat cancer…probably from the bongs according to the doctor…john didnt smoke ciggys (except in the mix of course)…..so even when it seems to be causing no dramas it still can be….

> willo: alot like alcohol, yeh? and thats legal so that makes it right?

xdave – didn’t your momma tell you two wrongs don’t make a right. Overdo either either and they will mess you up.

Pull your head in till you’ve got a little more cred on this site. It still says “newbie” next to your name.

peterh’s mate may well be a weed casualty. Smoking causes premature aging and addicts to anything aren’t reknowned for looking after their health. What’s the old saying about getting the face you deserve at 50? Maybe this is just another example.

This debate always cracks me up. The “No, no! The sacred weed is harmless” and the “Marijuana will be the downfall of society” polarity. Along with a healthy dose of “dope killed my mother/raped my father” stories (that said – Danman’s story rings true for me).

It’s a drug; and like all drugs (legal and otherwise) it has side effects. Inform people of the side effects (Objectively, like a therapeutic. None of this “if you smoke you will go CRAZY!” business) and let them make their own choices. Trying to spook people out of it ends with them saying “Well, the Man says it’s bad, but I know plenty of pretty normal people who’ve sparked up and they seem fine to me. Maybe the Man is talking out his ar$e”. That way lies a bunch of people with full-blown weed addictions convinced that they’re perfectly okay.

There are plenty of perfect places to be in Canberra after you’ve sparked up a choice fatty; but chances are you’ll end up on your couch watching bad TV or having borderline-retarded conversations with your mates. I’ll take a coldie for preference.

how much more do I need to find out?

I don’t really care to meet him, its not a best friends competition
I can only make my opinion on him from what he puts out there (or here) – and yeah, Granny, he really sounds heaps accepting! :\

Why can’t he explain his own story properly? Instead of just coming off as a callous bastard

willo: alot like alcohol, yeh? and thats legal so that makes it right?

Well, that’s possible of course, xdave. But perhaps you should take your own advice and actually find out what happened before you go judging peterh.

So far, since I’ve met him and you haven’t, I think I know a lot more about him than you frankly. In my experience, Peterh has always been very accepting of people with diverse lifestyles.

what?? pot isn’t “actually” a drug?…….actually it is and it is harmful and wastes the lives of a lot of good people

I don’t think he even cared enough to find out what was actually wrong with his friend – instead of judging him and just thinking his pot habit from when he last seen him 30 years ago is the cause of everything.

And what’s this about “trademark druggie giggle”? This is real life – not a bloody Cheech & Chong film… How do you know he hasn’t fried himself on actual drugs?

For goodness’ sake, why wouldn’t he care about his own friend, xdave?

peterh: sounds like your friend got into the ice hard
or does he drink possibly? or take prescription medication?

as if you even care though – he makes a good “weed is baaad mmmkay” story, right?

its amazing how many people have been brainwashed by anti-drug propaganda. brainwashed. brainwashed. brainwashed.brainwashed. are we feeling anything yet. ar#e-clowns.

love that bill hicks quote. that was one seriously funny dude..

Somewhere in the mess of paper on my desk is a review article on marijuana use and the growing evidence that it may actually cause psycosis in individuals with no risk factors who probably would never have developed psycosis if they hadn’t used marijuana. It is hard to come up with firm conclusions on things like drugs and mental health, but the review article did seem to think that it will eventually be concluded that marijuana doesn’t just exacerbate existing psycosis potential, it causes it.

If I manage to find the article before this thread dies, I will post the reference, but I am a little scared to disturb the Paper Mountain.

The problem with self-medicating with alcohol/drugs is that the slump on the other side of the high ends up a lot worse as a result, meaning that while you may get some relief, your overall state of mind ends up worse.

I had a perfectly sane friend who smoked way to much back in the day.
he claimed that the cars behind him in traffic were sent by the government to watch him, and when they turned off, teh car that was next behind him, or turned onto teh rpoad behind him had spoken to the first car to keep an eye on him

Tell me that is normal ?

Luckily for him, and the majority of my sfriends from back then, we all emerged from teh haze unscathed, but all you need is someone who has precursors of mental illness (genetics, character traits etc) and pot will be a great catalyst to bring that out.

First hand experience, no need to lie to be cool these days so why would I ?

To say that pot is an ANTIpsychotic would be poles away from the truth.

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=drugs+are+bad+mkay

That is the coolest page ever!!

Drug use for those with mental illness can also normalise some of their issues.

eg – everyone is setting around giggling and staring into space, not just me.

Jim Jones said :

Pommy bastard said :

You can also google up anecdotal evidence on cannabis and psychosis, if you wish, and the fact remains that cannabis is implicated.

I’m still awaiting Jakez to show any evidence that the association is just media hype.

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=drugs+are+bad+mkay

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=stop+being+a+smart-arse

I worked with a guy who started every day when he woke up with a couple of cones. The drug overtook his rational thoughts, and the number of cones increased, until he was nearly always out of his skull.

he is now about 55. I have seen him recently, he looks about 80, and has grey skin, which hangs off his face, he cannot hold a normal conversation, and cannot remember anything of his past post using. oh, and he now has the trademark druggie giggle.

Pommy bastard said :

You can also google up anecdotal evidence on cannabis and psychosis, if you wish, and the fact remains that cannabis is implicated.

I’m still awaiting Jakez to show any evidence that the association is just media hype.

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=drugs+are+bad+mkay

A lot of the symptoms people perceive as relating to people with a mental illness are actually a result of the meds not the illness. Often self medication is to try to deal with the side effects of the drugs given to manage the illness.

The major arguement against cannabis usage is that it is FAR more carcenogenic than tobacco, made worse by the general lack of filter usage[link].

Mind you if I was suffering a psychotic illness and believed that cannabis was taking the edge off, I doubt the risk of cancer would stop me smoking.

poptop said :

How do you know whether you’re inclined to develop those problems?

Family history, communication with friends and family…

Simple.

Pommy bastard said :

You can also google up anecdotal evidence on cannabis and psychosis, if you wish, and the fact remains that cannabis is implicated.

I’m still awaiting Jakez to show any evidence that the association is just media hype.

I think Jakez may be referring to the way that media distorts the true state of the scientific knowledge. There is undoubtedly a link between cannabis and triggering a number of mental disorders in those predisposed to mental illness, however you’ll find the same kind of links with alcohol, which is generally left unsaid by the media. Also, certainly cannabis has been shown to have a greater detrimental effect on developing brains (ie teenagers), but so does alcohol, which is rarely mentioned. Would that have anything to do with alcohol being a “legitimate” drug? And a drug that is widely advertised through media? Of course it would. That is the kind of media distortion he may have been referring to.

It also bothers me the way that pot, MDMD, speed/ice, cocaine and heroin are all lumped together by the media under the term “drugs”. Each has a different history, effect, risk of dependency, etc. and should be treated as such.

If you have a family history of mental illness, it is wise to stay away from all mind-altering substances, that is pretty clear. However, I would argue that pot causes far less aggregate social harm than alcohol, and that Canberra’s approach to it is correct – don’t legalise it (which would legitimise it in the eyes of kids), but continue the decriminalisation approach that seems to be working well.

“Self medicating seldom works out well, however.”

Poptop. So “they” say. But “they” still want to medicate you.

PB its not media hype. Its just the figures are very, very low.

Everything in moderation.

My pick would be down the river, a shaddy tree, some nice food and drink. Good friends. A long cool dip. A nice big joint. Yum.

That’s true dexi…schizophrenics tend to smoke a LOT of cigarettes apparently & the early research into that suggests that it may help them cope. Not a big stretch to think that smoking pot is a symptom & perhaps not just a cause.

Self medicating seldom works out well, however.

Strangely drugs seem to give some relief to the mentally ill. Some of it is chicken and egg stuff. Some times it helps. Go figure.

The psychic dudes man, with the couch chair ‘n all that, they do some mad-ass sh-t to your mind ‘n sh-t.

I don’t know, is there some sort of test?

Also, wouldn’t Cannibus just be one trigger? I’m sure there’s others too.

How do you know whether you’re inclined to develop those problems?

So, what if we’re not inclined to develop those problems? We just shouldn’t smoke it?

jessieduck said :

I like smoking a joint and then going for a driving lesson on the highway. I drive at 80km a hour just to annoy control freaks.

LOL! Especially nice to go for a long lesson down to the snow in the high season (no pun intended)!

You can also google up anecdotal evidence on cannabis and psychosis, if you wish, and the fact remains that cannabis is implicated.

I’m still awaiting Jakez to show any evidence that the association is just media hype.

> There are thousands of studies all implicating cannabis as a precipitant of psychosis and schizophrenia.

Actually, there’s not thousands at all. In fact, most studies conclude with words along the lines of “mostly harmless”. Back in my stoner days, I spent a lot of time reading said studies as I was working in the health industry & had free & easy access to electronic copies of most of major health journals around the world. Yes, there is a link. No, it’s not as black & white as you seem to think. Plenty of legal drugs (alcohol is the classic example) have had far greater number of studies show far worse effects. I’m not saying we should all rush out & get stoned, just keeping things in perspective.

Fact is anyone can read a book and quote something from it. I’d be interested to hear some real experiences such as that I’ve had with my friends.

Two of my mates are with bi-polar (and it was definitely triggered by pot in my opinion), a couple in their mid thirties that haven’t developed past probably 18 years of age and cannot break the cycle and Danman hearing evil sounds in the earth tells me more than I need to know about what it does to you if you’re that way inclined.

Just like if you’re prone to violence you’ll probably want to do some damage when you drink alcohol.

Pommy bastard said :

There are thousands of studies all implicating cannabis as a precipitant of psychosis and schizophrenia.

Jakez was implying (I think) that this was all media hype.

I presented a few of the studies, I await conformation of the media hype.

Oh, and I’m smart enough not to quote the whole of a voluminous post just to add 6 words at the end.

Yeah but I am too stoned to edit…

And the voices keep telling me to burn things.

There are thousands of studies all implicating cannabis as a precipitant of psychosis and schizophrenia.

Jakez was implying (I think) that this was all media hype.

I presented a few of the studies, I await conformation of the media hype.

Oh, and I’m smart enough not to quote the whole of a voluminous post just to add 6 words at the end.

Pommy bastard said :

jakez said :

Pommy bastard said :

As cannabis is implicated in psychosis and schizophrenia it may enable more young people to enjoy trips to the psychiatric wards of our hospitals.

I do hope they enjoy it.

I do so love it when the mainstream media report on scientific articles. The end result becomes so fantastically distorted.

Ok, where has the “mainstream media fantastically distorted” the fact that cannabis is implicated in psychosis and schizophrenia?

Cannabis use may increase the risk of psychotic disorders and result in a poor prognosis for those with an established vulnerability to psychosis.

American Journal of Epidemiology

Various lines of evidence suggest an association between cannabis and psychosis. Five years ago, the only significant case-control study addressing this question was the

Swedish Conscript Cohort. Within the last few years, other studies have emerged, allowing the evidence for cannabis as a risk factor to be more systematically

reviewed and assessed.

For psychotic symptoms, a dose-related effect of cannabis use was seen, with vulnerable groups including individuals who

used cannabis during adolescence, those who had previously experienced psychotic symptoms, and those at high genetic risk of developing schizophrenia. In conclusion, the available evidence supports the hypothesis that cannabis is an independent risk factor, both for psychosis and the development of psychotic symptoms. Addressing cannabis use, particularly in vulnerable populations, is likely to have beneficial effects on psychiatric morbidity.

Journal of Psychopharmacology, Vol. 19, No. 2, 187-194 (2005)

The evidence is more consistent with the hypotheses that cannabis use may precipitate psychosis among vulnerable individuals, increase the risk of relapse among those who have already developed the disorder, and may be more likely to lead to dependence in persons with schizophrenia.

National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre, University of New South Wales, 2502 Sydney, Australia

Cannabis use, in individuals who did not have psychotic symptoms before they began using cannabis, predicted future psychotic symptoms (hazard ratio = 2.81; 95% confidence interval = 1.79–4.43). However, psychotic symptoms in those who had never used cannabis before the onset of psychotic symptoms also predicted future cannabis use (hazard ratio = 1.70; 95% confidence interval = 1.13–2.57).

Conclusions The results imply either a common vulnerability with varying order of onset or a bi-directional causal relationship between cannabis use and psychosis.

Department of Psychiatry, University Medical Center Utrecht, the Netherlands

Wow, you’re a smarty aren’t ya!

I have

Deadmandrinking said :

Things to do when stoned: Argue with idiots on RiotACT.

I have enough trouble understanding you weirdos at the best of times 🙂

jakez said :

Pommy bastard said :

As cannabis is implicated in psychosis and schizophrenia it may enable more young people to enjoy trips to the psychiatric wards of our hospitals.

I do hope they enjoy it.

I do so love it when the mainstream media report on scientific articles. The end result becomes so fantastically distorted.

Ok, where has the “mainstream media fantastically distorted” the fact that cannabis is implicated in psychosis and schizophrenia?

Cannabis use may increase the risk of psychotic disorders and result in a poor prognosis for those with an established vulnerability to psychosis.

American Journal of Epidemiology

Various lines of evidence suggest an association between cannabis and psychosis. Five years ago, the only significant case-control study addressing this question was the Swedish Conscript Cohort. Within the last few years, other studies have emerged, allowing the evidence for cannabis as a risk factor to be more systematically reviewed and assessed.

For psychotic symptoms, a dose-related effect of cannabis use was seen, with vulnerable groups including individuals who used cannabis during adolescence, those who had previously experienced psychotic symptoms, and those at high genetic risk of developing schizophrenia. In conclusion, the available evidence supports the hypothesis that cannabis is an independent risk factor, both for psychosis and the development of psychotic symptoms. Addressing cannabis use, particularly in vulnerable populations, is likely to have beneficial effects on psychiatric morbidity.

Journal of Psychopharmacology, Vol. 19, No. 2, 187-194 (2005)

The evidence is more consistent with the hypotheses that cannabis use may precipitate psychosis among vulnerable individuals, increase the risk of relapse among those who have already developed the disorder, and may be more likely to lead to dependence in persons with schizophrenia.

National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre, University of New South Wales, 2502 Sydney, Australia

Cannabis use, in individuals who did not have psychotic symptoms before they began using cannabis, predicted future psychotic symptoms (hazard ratio = 2.81; 95% confidence interval = 1.79–4.43). However, psychotic symptoms in those who had never used cannabis before the onset of psychotic symptoms also predicted future cannabis use (hazard ratio = 1.70; 95% confidence interval = 1.13–2.57).

Conclusions The results imply either a common vulnerability with varying order of onset or a bi-directional causal relationship between cannabis use and psychosis.

Department of Psychiatry, University Medical Center Utrecht, the Netherlands

Deadmandrinking said :

Things to do when stoned: Argue with idiots on RiotACT.

CLASSIC!!! LMFAO!

Things to do when stoned: Argue with idiots on RiotACT.

It’s a full on little drug… I think that legalisation may be a way to go than at least it can be regulated for strength and potency.

I’ve had friends who have had pretty sordid pasts try and quit and they reckon for them it was harder than booting heroin. More research need to be done into the effect of long term-use.

Yeah – started off fun in the early years – full abdminal workouts from laughing for 4 hours, hanging out in Civic downstairs happy days playing pool and what not – then it just went nuts, and turned a corner and I was a paranoid schitzophrenic whilst stoned so I decided that was my calling card to quit.

I have an aunt an uncle and a grandmother who have full blown mental issues.

With that kind of family history I even have to be acreful on teh booze as well, but a bloke has to let his hair down every now and then – and yet to see any black dogs post drinking so I’m all good 🙂

I just have too vivid an imagination to be dealing with hallicinogens.

Danman said :

I could feel more than hear the sound..Low frequency vibrations and sounds like that of a foundry…..Freaked me out.

I just knew it was pure evil (Or so it seemed i my intoxicated state)

Scared me into quitting.

That is full on man! Glad you sorted yourself out.

I could feel more than hear the sound..Low frequency vibrations and sounds like that of a foundry…..Freaked me out.

I just knew it was pure evil (Or so it seemed i my intoxicated state)

Scared me into quitting.

Danman said :

A family history of mental illness used to see me stoned in my younger days, and listening to evil sounds coming from deep within the earth.

I quit pretty soo after that started happening.

Good move! Or maybe, just maybe, HP Lovecraft knew more than we thought.

I’ve got a bit of a slant (pun intended) on the Parli House grass roll. Blaze up, procure several rolls of plastic Ag sheeting, gaffer tape, long garden hoses and several bottles of Morning Fresh. Construct kick-ass slip n’ slide and cane down the roof of Parli House.

Who’s up for it?

A family history of mental illness used to see me stoned in my younger days, and listening to evil sounds coming from deep within the earth.

I quit pretty soo after that started happening.

Pommy bastard said :

As cannabis is implicated in psychosis and schizophrenia it may enable more young people to enjoy trips to the psychiatric wards of our hospitals.

I do hope they enjoy it.

I do so love it when the mainstream media report on scientific articles. The end result becomes so fantastically distorted.

peterh said :

Stare at the National Museum and wonder why…

and then giggle.

The Braille on the outer walls is spelt wrong. But laser tag and bowling at Belco are some hidden gems to do when annaebriated but not drunk. Jamison pool slide is good fun too.

Pommy bastard said :

As cannabis is implicated in psychosis and schizophrenia it may enable more young people to enjoy trips to the psychiatric wards of our hospitals.

I do hope they enjoy it.

Chill mate!

Drinking alcohol does not automatically make you an alcoholic, although you may be one/become one. Just as smoking pot does not automatically make you a paranoid schizophrenic, although you may be one/become one. The world isn’t always black & white. Most people that drink alcohol are not alcoholics, most people that smoke pot are not paranoid schizophrenic no hoping druggos.

Frankly, I prefer a nice beer or twelve, but I have heard that is bad for you too.

As cannabis is implicated in psychosis and schizophrenia it may enable more young people to enjoy trips to the psychiatric wards of our hospitals.

I do hope they enjoy it.

I like smoking a joint and then going for a driving lesson on the highway. I drive at 80km a hour just to annoy control freaks.

Namadgi Nat. Park is staggeringly beautiful, peaceful, spectacular, and right on the cities doorstep. For the adventurous and experienced, a gentle abseil down a sloping granite slab will get the blood pumping!

A lazy pedal around the lake to admire the scenery jogging past…

A picnic… just about anywhere… don’t forget the chocolate frogs.

> i didn’t think you could still roll down parliament house? thought they fenced the top and bottom to prevent terruhrists from driving on top and blowing something up..

You can’t get quite to the top anymore, but you can still get plenty high enough to roll down if that’s your want. I run up & down there regularly….that HURTS.

i didn’t think you could still roll down parliament house? thought they fenced the top and bottom to prevent terruhrists from driving on top and blowing something up..

Most of those things are fun anyway. Although rolling down Parliament house is less fun now that there is a barrier that stops you going right from the top.

If you are like most Canberristani pot smokers though, you will let off some fireworks in the back yard, then go back inside to watch some pr0n…

Gee..you’d think you had a negative opinion on pot smokers DJ! 🙂

I don’t use the stuff anymore, it doesn’t tend to assist much with triathlon training, but I’m with Bill Hicks (I often am) on this one….

“No, I don’t do drugs anymore, either. But I’ll tell you something about drugs. I used to do drugs, but I’ll tell you something honestly about drugs, honestly, and I know it’s not a very popular idea, you don’t hear it very often anymore, but it is the truth: I had a great time doing drugs. Sorry. Never murdered anyone, never robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never beat anyone, never lost a job, a car, a house, a wife or kids, laughed my ass off, and went about my day.”

Or when stoned go to a GP that can do an on the spot vasectomies so you can remove yourself from the gene pool then call the MHCT and let them know you are going to be patient as soon as the paranoia starts and the fireworks start going off…

A slice of spacecake an hour before going in a balloon could be a heck of a trip.

and then realise “why the hell not”.

Simple things are best. I want to go to zone 3/laserzone on some kind of uhh… party favour, one day.

Stare at the National Museum and wonder why…

and then giggle.

I’d stay away form the Tradies Schnitzels if I were you (and stoned) – they aint what they used to be…
Questacon would get my vote as a place to go while in an altered state – lots of fun things there.