Road Rage in Canberra - Just CALM DOWN!!

KB1971 said :

watto23 said :

Regarding fog lights, the main reason cops don’t book for these, is because they are not fog lights. Most are driving lights with a lower brightness than main headlights. So the law is fog lights, but manufacturers call them driving lights and make sure they are no brighter than headlights. They are also often very low and tilted towards the road surface. A cop will never book someone for that offence if commonsense is its not causing a hazard to other drivers. drive with your high beams on in with other traffic around and you’ll get booked.
.

I am going to correct you here, they are fog lights, not driving lights. Driving lights are only to be used when the high beam is on. The way they operate is in accordance with the requirements of ADR13/00.

Most manufacturers do not call them driving lights, they call them fog lamps.

BA Falcon Ute Owners Manual, page 70, “fog lamps”.

Weatherman said :

goody658 said :

Merging onto traffic.

I think this is why we have a few crashes near the on coming ramps.

Over to you guys

Many Canberra highway ramps were not designed properly. It was not a good idea to have off ramps immediately after on ramps. You drive off the highway at the same time other people are merging onto it. Poor road design.

Even worse example of design, the Parkes Way off ramp heading south from Coranderrk street, where you have traffic entering Parkes Way, attempting to merge into the right lane with traffic doing 80km/h and then merging to the left lane in order to exit onto Commonwealth Avenue. All this happens in less than 300 meters, giving the maneuver only around 10 seconds to complete. No wonder there are always cars slamming on the brakes as they pass the duck pond, with folks cutting across in front to make the exit ramp in time, or slowing down to get behind a car in the left lane.

goody658 said :

Merging onto traffic.

I think this is why we have a few crashes near the on coming ramps.

Over to you guys

Many Canberra highway ramps were not designed properly. It was not a good idea to have off ramps immediately after on ramps. You drive off the highway at the same time other people are merging onto it. Poor road design.

JimCharles said :

However, and this is what blows away the ACT Police’s insistence on only targeting speeding…….with a much faster driving environment and higher speed limits and all the associated problems mentioned above….fewer people per head of capita die in UK traffic accidents than in Australia, and there is a lot more risk there with more cars sharing the road, more turns, more stopping and starting, more people impacting on your driving.
I can’t explain why, other than it’s a safer driving environment because driving tests are hard to pass and drivers are well-schooled, well-skilled, observant and practiced.
The driving environment in Canberra is a dream, but the level of understanding and awareness just isn’t there. If it was, the slower speeds would result in less deaths, but they don’t. So it must be something else.

This.

Our resident bleaters about how they’re “not doing anything illegal hogging the right lane” should read this again.

goody658 said :

Merging onto traffic.

What is everyone’s interpretation of merging into say the parkway or Adelaide ave.
Because i have spoken to a few people who are divided on who has to give way.

My belief is that the mergee has to give way to oncoming traffic hence the dotted give way line and the car being merged into does not have to change lanes to let the mergee in( even tho it is nice to do so and common practice)

Others tend to believe the opposite that the car in the left lane closest to the oncoming ramp has to move over and let them in.

I think this is why we have a few crashes near the on coming ramps.

Over to you guys

The merger must give way, however it is just considerate and simple common sense to move into the right hand lane to let them in.

Another win for driving only in the right hand lane!!!!

Merging onto traffic.

What is everyone’s interpretation of merging into say the parkway or Adelaide ave.
Because i have spoken to a few people who are divided on who has to give way.

My belief is that the mergee has to give way to oncoming traffic hence the dotted give way line and the car being merged into does not have to change lanes to let the mergee in( even tho it is nice to do so and common practice)

Others tend to believe the opposite that the car in the left lane closest to the oncoming ramp has to move over and let them in.

I think this is why we have a few crashes near the on coming ramps.

Over to you guys

Holden Caulfield said :

Really? I’ve found the inner burbs to be okay and the outer burbs (eg. Gungahlin IME) to be the place where impatience on the roads increases. Not a lot, but enough to be noticeable.

I do notice that too. The motorists should drive to the conditions of the road in busy suburbs, rather than driving at the constant speed limit of 80km/h when the traffic conditions do not make it safe to do so at peak traffic times. There has been a lot of construction and growth in the Gungahlin area. The Horse Park Drive extension has also been opened recently. Many of the roads, such as the Gundaroo Road need duplicating nowadays, because the roads were constructed before many new suburbs were constructed.

JC said :

JimCharles said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

I only see road rage brewing when people use the right hand lane and drive 10-20km/h below the limit, thus slowing ALL the traffic behind them. The tail-gating, beeping, headlight flashing and constant lane swapping by the frustrated person/s behind will eventually result in road rage to various degrees.
It all comes down to courtesy, if you aren’t going to turn right at the next intersection, don’t use the right hand lane.

It’s called the right lane because it’s the right lane to use!

Don’t try and excuse road rage or dangerous driving.

If i’m not overtaking I’ll pull to the left lane, it’s just common sense and avoids hassle, enhances traffic flow. Defensive safe driving.
I just use the UK method and only go in the right lane if I overtake…it’s sort of instinctive, different to the way Australians use dual lanes but the laws of traffic flow are the same everywhere, you adjust to the situation to let everybody make best progress.
They have laws, and they have a driving code. The two can be mutually exclusive…..somebody might not be doing anything “illegal”, but they could still be impacting on the ability of another driver to make progress (ie…pulling out and making them brake sharply or swerve…dawdling in the overtaking lane blocking a line of traffic etc).
You have a duty not to impede the progress of other drivers, even if they’re breaking the law….if they want to act like idiots, it’s not your job to stop them.
They had a lot of this stubbornness from drivers who refused to move over and it was causing road rage and these people were getting attacked, or there were more accidents as people tried to swerve round them.
In the end they had to make a stand because road rage incidents kept on increasing whatever they did.
Ultimately, police can now issue fines to lane hoggers or obstinate drivers who are NOT doing anything illegal, but the thinking is that they should know better than to inflame a situation that they’re obviously aware of and are thus not following the driving code themselves by impeding other drivers’ progress.
Whatever the moral rights and wrongs of this, move over to protect yourself and reduce the chance of an accident. Let the police catch the lunatics.

.

The UK system isn’t perfect either and going to the right to overtake and then straight back let only seems to be the norm on 3+ lane motorways. On 2 lane motorways and Ax(M) roads they are just as bad if not worse than here in Australia despite the law saying to move left.

Drivers are also a lot less tolerant of vehicles who don’t move and IMO if you are overtaking and a car is behind if you don’t go straight back in and I mean straight back (dangerously so rather than leaving a safe gap) they will flash and tail gate you until you do the. As you are moving over they are up your inside.

The other bad thing is you cannot overtake on the left even on a multilane road. So if the right hand lane is being joyed you cannot use the left lane even if free to pass, unless both lanes are congested.

I say this based on 4 years living there and a recent holiday where I drove extensively for 3 week. On the last trip I found the worst road was the M8 between Edinburgh and Glasgow, 2 lane motorway and even at 2pm many cars just sitting in the right hand lane with left free.
What they do very well however is not use fog lights in clear weather.

Yeah, the lack of undertaking is an issue, hence the police now shifting lane hoggers under the threat of a fine. If you can find a police car that is…
It’s far from perfect, there are way too many cars for the road infrastructure, it’s congested, cars are parked everywhere blocking sightlines, constant braking and accelerating, maneuvering through constant tight situations, drivers are more impatient and they drive very fast, road rage is a daily occurrence, tyres squeal when traffic lights change to green, it’s a stressful race track and horrible compared to the easy driving in Canberra.

However, and this is what blows away the ACT Police’s insistence on only targeting speeding…….with a much faster driving environment and higher speed limits and all the associated problems mentioned above….fewer people per head of capita die in UK traffic accidents than in Australia, and there is a lot more risk there with more cars sharing the road, more turns, more stopping and starting, more people impacting on your driving.
I can’t explain why, other than it’s a safer driving environment because driving tests are hard to pass and drivers are well-schooled, well-skilled, observant and practiced.
The driving environment in Canberra is a dream, but the level of understanding and awareness just isn’t there. If it was, the slower speeds would result in less deaths, but they don’t. So it must be something else.

Russ said :

Anything that is illuminated by fog lights is simply *too close* for you to react in time.

So you may feel like you’re seeing more, and you are, but it’s actually making you a more dangerous driver.

THAT is a very good point.

watto23 said :

I don’t use mine all the time, but do use them especially later at night for extra visibility.

This aspect of the use of fog lights in clear weather – apart from it being illegal – is extremely dangerous. Why? Because fog lights only illuminate what is directly in front of the car, and draws the driver’s attention to that closer area to the detriment of observing far ahead. Keeping your focus as far ahead as possible is a key aspect of defensive driving – it allows you to identify potential hazards and prepare to respond should they eventuate. It means you’re ready to react should that kangaroo jump towards the road, or that car decides to pull out, or there’s an unexpected obstacle on the road once you round that blind corner.

Anything that is illuminated by fog lights is simply *too close* for you to react in time.

So you may feel like you’re seeing more, and you are, but it’s actually making you a more dangerous driver.

JimCharles said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

I only see road rage brewing when people use the right hand lane and drive 10-20km/h below the limit, thus slowing ALL the traffic behind them. The tail-gating, beeping, headlight flashing and constant lane swapping by the frustrated person/s behind will eventually result in road rage to various degrees.
It all comes down to courtesy, if you aren’t going to turn right at the next intersection, don’t use the right hand lane.

It’s called the right lane because it’s the right lane to use!

Don’t try and excuse road rage or dangerous driving.

If i’m not overtaking I’ll pull to the left lane, it’s just common sense and avoids hassle, enhances traffic flow. Defensive safe driving.
I just use the UK method and only go in the right lane if I overtake…it’s sort of instinctive, different to the way Australians use dual lanes but the laws of traffic flow are the same everywhere, you adjust to the situation to let everybody make best progress.
They have laws, and they have a driving code. The two can be mutually exclusive…..somebody might not be doing anything “illegal”, but they could still be impacting on the ability of another driver to make progress (ie…pulling out and making them brake sharply or swerve…dawdling in the overtaking lane blocking a line of traffic etc).
You have a duty not to impede the progress of other drivers, even if they’re breaking the law….if they want to act like idiots, it’s not your job to stop them.
They had a lot of this stubbornness from drivers who refused to move over and it was causing road rage and these people were getting attacked, or there were more accidents as people tried to swerve round them.
In the end they had to make a stand because road rage incidents kept on increasing whatever they did.
Ultimately, police can now issue fines to lane hoggers or obstinate drivers who are NOT doing anything illegal, but the thinking is that they should know better than to inflame a situation that they’re obviously aware of and are thus not following the driving code themselves by impeding other drivers’ progress.
Whatever the moral rights and wrongs of this, move over to protect yourself and reduce the chance of an accident. Let the police catch the lunatics.

.

The UK system isn’t perfect either and going to the right to overtake and then straight back let only seems to be the norm on 3+ lane motorways. On 2 lane motorways and Ax(M) roads they are just as bad if not worse than here in Australia despite the law saying to move left.

Drivers are also a lot less tolerant of vehicles who don’t move and IMO if you are overtaking and a car is behind if you don’t go straight back in and I mean straight back (dangerously so rather than leaving a safe gap) they will flash and tail gate you until you do the. As you are moving over they are up your inside.

The other bad thing is you cannot overtake on the left even on a multilane road. So if the right hand lane is being joyed you cannot use the left lane even if free to pass, unless both lanes are congested.

I say this based on 4 years living there and a recent holiday where I drove extensively for 3 week. On the last trip I found the worst road was the M8 between Edinburgh and Glasgow, 2 lane motorway and even at 2pm many cars just sitting in the right hand lane with left free.
What they do very well however is not use fog lights in clear weather.

Weatherman said :

Regarding road rage in Canberra, I think it depends on the location. Canberra drivers are quite courteous compared with other cities. The worst area to drive in Canberra would be Lyneham…

Really? I’ve found the inner burbs to be okay and the outer burbs (eg. Gungahlin IME) to be the place where impatience on the roads increases. Not a lot, but enough to be noticeable.

Very Busy said :

watto23 said :

Majority of the “fog lights” on cars are less bright than the head lights. I’ve checked mine with a light meter, because i’m sick of people complaining without any facts.

This is the problem. People have no idea what they are talking about or what they are doing. I seriously doubt that you are telling the truth here but if you have indeed checked your fog lights with a light meter you are grossly misguided. The light intensity is only part of the issue. The design and material of the housing plays a big part in how the light is thrown and what effect the light has on occupants of oncoming vehicles.

watto23 said :

IMO less than 5% of fog lights are actually brighter than the head lights and as they are lower they are even less of an issue.

With respect, please don’t use your opinions as an excuse to break the law. Cars come in all shapes and sizes and some have much lower seating positions than others. Also, your fog lights may not appear bright in normal circumstances but when you come over a crest, speed hump or sometimes cornering, it is a totally different story. You are probably not aware that your attitude with regard to treating any road rule as optional results in you being a much worse driver than you think you are.

Of course, you are not alone, hence this thread, and many drivers also just don’t have a clue what they are doing.

watto23 said :

I’ve checked mine with a light meter, because i’m sick of people complaining without any facts.

People complain for a reason. Heed the message and you will then be a better driver.

Keep this in mind: A good driver does not ignore the road rules or treat them as being optional.

I know exactly what I’m talking about. Majority of these supposed dangerous lights are not focused beams but much wider and as such even less of an issue, are pointed out wide and towards the road surface.
If the police are not policing it, because its not an actual problem affecting drivers then its a case of the law needing to be updated to reflect commonsense.
In the meantime, I’m more than happy to pay any fines i receive for using my fog lights to provide visibility to me and of me when I feel it is needed. I’m almost certain I will never get any because its not dangerous at all.

Very Busy said :

People complain for a reason.

Not in Canberra.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

I only see road rage brewing when people use the right hand lane and drive 10-20km/h below the limit, thus slowing ALL the traffic behind them. The tail-gating, beeping, headlight flashing and constant lane swapping by the frustrated person/s behind will eventually result in road rage to various degrees.
It all comes down to courtesy, if you aren’t going to turn right at the next intersection, don’t use the right hand lane.

It’s called the right lane because it’s the right lane to use!

Don’t try and excuse road rage or dangerous driving.

Incorrect unless you are doing 80km/h or above. If you are driving below that speed and you are in the right lane without a legitimate excuse such as about to turn off or overtaking a slower vehicle, then you are breaking the law.

Regarding fog lights vs driving lights (not daytime running lamps). Fog lights are designed for use in fog or low visability weather conditions (eg. heavy rain) and can be used with low or high beam (high beam actually gives you less viability in fog).

Driving lights on the other hand are designed for rural or sparsely populated areas (ie not suburban streets where there are street lights) and only work with high beam.

I am shocked but not surprised that people don’t know this.

watto23 said :

Majority of the “fog lights” on cars are less bright than the head lights. I’ve checked mine with a light meter, because i’m sick of people complaining without any facts.

This is the problem. People have no idea what they are talking about or what they are doing. I seriously doubt that you are telling the truth here but if you have indeed checked your fog lights with a light meter you are grossly misguided. The light intensity is only part of the issue. The design and material of the housing plays a big part in how the light is thrown and what effect the light has on occupants of oncoming vehicles.

watto23 said :

IMO less than 5% of fog lights are actually brighter than the head lights and as they are lower they are even less of an issue.

With respect, please don’t use your opinions as an excuse to break the law. Cars come in all shapes and sizes and some have much lower seating positions than others. Also, your fog lights may not appear bright in normal circumstances but when you come over a crest, speed hump or sometimes cornering, it is a totally different story. You are probably not aware that your attitude with regard to treating any road rule as optional results in you being a much worse driver than you think you are.

Of course, you are not alone, hence this thread, and many drivers also just don’t have a clue what they are doing.

watto23 said :

I’ve checked mine with a light meter, because i’m sick of people complaining without any facts.

People complain for a reason. Heed the message and you will then be a better driver.

Keep this in mind: A good driver does not ignore the road rules or treat them as being optional.

Very Busy said :

watto23 said :

Regarding fog lights, the main reason cops don’t book for these, is because they are not fog lights. Most are driving lights with a lower brightness than main headlights. So the law is fog lights, but manufacturers call them driving lights and make sure they are no brighter than headlights.

No, manufacturers call them fog lights and that is what they are. Yes some are brighter than others. Commodores, Falcons and some Subaru’s are particularly bright but in the context of law enforcement they should all be turned off in clear weather.

Many cars these days also have daytime running lights (DRL’s) which might be what you are referring to. I am making a distinct reference to fog lights, which is what the vast majority of the offenders are using.

Majority of the “fog lights” on cars are less bright than the head lights. I’ve checked mine with a light meter, because i’m sick of people complaining without any facts. This is why the police don’t book people. I know quite a few police officers and this is what they told me and why they are not booked, because most “fog lights” are not actually fog lights and not brighter than the cars headlights. They have plenty of other things to do. IMO less than 5% of fog lights are actually brighter than the head lights and as they are lower they are even less of an issue. I see more cyclists with brighter lights than I see “fog lights” that are too bright.

I don’t use mine all the time, but do use them especially later at night for extra visibility. Its not always bad weather or foggy, but I’d never buy a car without them. the extra visibility i get using them is a far greater benefit than being booked for a rule that was designed for extra bright fog lights. Laws don’t always catch up to commonsense.

Police cannot book everyone and everything. Fog lights are basically a non-issue for the majority of those fitted to cars by manufacturers. People who tailgate, are discourteous, are inattentive, are right hand lane hoggers, don’t understand roundabout giveway laws or who don’t know how to merge are far greater issues. The issue is with the lack of police on the streets they seem to focus on speeding and drink driving which are two major contributors but I think are over emphasised and there are plenty of very bad drivers who don’t drink and drive or speed. Many of them I’m sure would post in forums telling us how good they are at driving as well!

I don’t speed and I rarely ever get tailgated.

watto23 said :

Regarding fog lights, the main reason cops don’t book for these, is because they are not fog lights. Most are driving lights with a lower brightness than main headlights. So the law is fog lights, but manufacturers call them driving lights and make sure they are no brighter than headlights. They are also often very low and tilted towards the road surface. A cop will never book someone for that offence if commonsense is its not causing a hazard to other drivers. drive with your high beams on in with other traffic around and you’ll get booked.
.

I am going to correct you here, they are fog lights, not driving lights. Driving lights are only to be used when the high beam is on. The way they operate is in accordance with the requirements of ADR13/00.

Most manufacturers do not call them driving lights, they call them fog lamps.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

I only see road rage brewing when people use the right hand lane and drive 10-20km/h below the limit, thus slowing ALL the traffic behind them. The tail-gating, beeping, headlight flashing and constant lane swapping by the frustrated person/s behind will eventually result in road rage to various degrees.
It all comes down to courtesy, if you aren’t going to turn right at the next intersection, don’t use the right hand lane.

It’s called the right lane because it’s the right lane to use!

Don’t try and excuse road rage or dangerous driving.

If i’m not overtaking I’ll pull to the left lane, it’s just common sense and avoids hassle, enhances traffic flow. Defensive safe driving.
I just use the UK method and only go in the right lane if I overtake…it’s sort of instinctive, different to the way Australians use dual lanes but the laws of traffic flow are the same everywhere, you adjust to the situation to let everybody make best progress.
They have laws, and they have a driving code. The two can be mutually exclusive…..somebody might not be doing anything “illegal”, but they could still be impacting on the ability of another driver to make progress (ie…pulling out and making them brake sharply or swerve…dawdling in the overtaking lane blocking a line of traffic etc).
You have a duty not to impede the progress of other drivers, even if they’re breaking the law….if they want to act like idiots, it’s not your job to stop them.
They had a lot of this stubbornness from drivers who refused to move over and it was causing road rage and these people were getting attacked, or there were more accidents as people tried to swerve round them.
In the end they had to make a stand because road rage incidents kept on increasing whatever they did.
Ultimately, police can now issue fines to lane hoggers or obstinate drivers who are NOT doing anything illegal, but the thinking is that they should know better than to inflame a situation that they’re obviously aware of and are thus not following the driving code themselves by impeding other drivers’ progress.
Whatever the moral rights and wrongs of this, move over to protect yourself and reduce the chance of an accident. Let the police catch the lunatics.

.

Weatherman said :

It is safer to drive with fog lights in clear, or partially overcast weather. The vehicle may be of similar colour to the clouds or road. It is commonplace in many European countries to drive with headlights on during clear weather.

It’s NOT ok to drive with foglights when it’s not foggy, and at night it’s just plain stupidity.
The reason is that it makes it more difficult to notice when somebody is braking, so it’s actually making the situation more dangerous.

wildturkeycanoe said :

I only see road rage brewing when people use the right hand lane and drive 10-20km/h below the limit, thus slowing ALL the traffic behind them. The tail-gating, beeping, headlight flashing and constant lane swapping by the frustrated person/s behind will eventually result in road rage to various degrees.
It all comes down to courtesy, if you aren’t going to turn right at the next intersection, don’t use the right hand lane.

It’s called the right lane because it’s the right lane to use!

Don’t try and excuse road rage or dangerous driving.

Regarding road rage in Canberra, I think it depends on the location. Canberra drivers are quite courteous compared with other cities. The worst area to drive in Canberra would be Lyneham. It is one of the densest suburbs. There are a few black spot areas and there always seems to be people who are in such a hurry, they will flash their lights or beep their horn at you when not being patient at busy intersections would result in a crash if turning onto a busy road, such as Northbourne Avenue. I always have to ignore these foolish drivers and it leads to repentance. It is close to the government housing though.

Otherwise, I think the majority of behavior Canberra roads is good. I’ve lived in ACT for many years now.

bigred said :

Weatherman said :

Very Busy said :

The use of fog lights in clear weather is a good example. Rightly or wrongly, using fog lights in clear weather conditions is illegal. That is the law. Yet about 15% of drivers have them turned on in clear weather. No one ever gets a ticket for committing this offence. The message this gives is that it is quite ok to break the law. If it is deemed that it is ok to use fog lights in clear weather then CHANGE THE LAW. While the law exists, the police are failing in their duty by not enforcing it.

It is safer to drive with fog lights in clear, or partially overcast weather. The vehicle may be of similar colour to the clouds or road. It is commonplace in many European countries to drive with headlights on during clear weather.

very confused response here. if the euros drive in daylight on low beam, why argue foglights are OK? Seriously though, they probably are not an issue in daylight, but of a night they can cause problems from time to time, hence the rules.

They can also cause issues in the day too. They are very bright and while hey point down they can still startle. Happened to me once on William Hovell drive I was going down the hill towards the city the road turned right and at that time an SUV came the other way with fog lights blaring. The combination of SUV height, their vehicle climbing the hill and the curve contributed to it and for a brief moment I lost fission.

Oh also many European and some other cars have rear fog lights that too can be very very bright again higher vehicles the light could be shining directly into the driver behinds eyes. Dangerous and the reason the rules say poor visibility only.

Weatherman said :

Very Busy said :

The use of fog lights in clear weather is a good example. Rightly or wrongly, using fog lights in clear weather conditions is illegal. That is the law. Yet about 15% of drivers have them turned on in clear weather. No one ever gets a ticket for committing this offence. The message this gives is that it is quite ok to break the law. If it is deemed that it is ok to use fog lights in clear weather then CHANGE THE LAW. While the law exists, the police are failing in their duty by not enforcing it.

It is safer to drive with fog lights in clear, or partially overcast weather. The vehicle may be of similar colour to the clouds or road. It is commonplace in many European countries to drive with headlights on during clear weather.

It is NOT safe to drive with fog lights on except in fog or reduced visibility ie heavy heavy rain. Believe me I have been blinded and almost lost control of my car after being startled by an SUV driving with fog lights on during the day.

You are right though headlights or daytime driving lights on during the day do make your car more visible and both are designed to not shine in the eyes of other cars whereas fog lights are brighter and can shine in other drivers eyes, SUVs and 4wds being higher being he main offenders due to their height.

The sooner google cars and other driverless cars take over, the better. Humans cannot be trusted behind the wheel of a car and the sooner we relinquish our bad driving habits to automated vehicles the better.
For the first time in three years I drove to the City on a Friday night to catch up with friends at about 6pm and the amount of dangerous, self entitled, disgusting behaviour that I witnessed from motorist made me worry for the future of the human race.

Weatherman said :

It is safer to drive with fog lights in clear, or partially overcast weather. The vehicle may be of similar colour to the clouds or road. It is commonplace in many European countries to drive with headlights on during clear weather.

Not at night time.

I’m not arguing the good and bad about using fog lights. I’m saying that all road rules should be enforced if driver attitudes are to be changed for the better. If there is a road rule that shouldn’t be enforced then it shouldn’t be a road rule.

Weatherman said :

Very Busy said :

The use of fog lights in clear weather is a good example. Rightly or wrongly, using fog lights in clear weather conditions is illegal. That is the law. Yet about 15% of drivers have them turned on in clear weather. No one ever gets a ticket for committing this offence. The message this gives is that it is quite ok to break the law. If it is deemed that it is ok to use fog lights in clear weather then CHANGE THE LAW. While the law exists, the police are failing in their duty by not enforcing it.

It is safer to drive with fog lights in clear, or partially overcast weather. The vehicle may be of similar colour to the clouds or road. It is commonplace in many European countries to drive with headlights on during clear weather.

very confused response here. if the euros drive in daylight on low beam, why argue foglights are OK? Seriously though, they probably are not an issue in daylight, but of a night they can cause problems from time to time, hence the rules.

If only we lived in Mario kart land where police driving on the road could collect coins for the ACT government.

Until that happens we go further into chaotic nanny state

Very Busy said :

The use of fog lights in clear weather is a good example. Rightly or wrongly, using fog lights in clear weather conditions is illegal. That is the law. Yet about 15% of drivers have them turned on in clear weather. No one ever gets a ticket for committing this offence. The message this gives is that it is quite ok to break the law. If it is deemed that it is ok to use fog lights in clear weather then CHANGE THE LAW. While the law exists, the police are failing in their duty by not enforcing it.

It is safer to drive with fog lights in clear, or partially overcast weather. The vehicle may be of similar colour to the clouds or road. It is commonplace in many European countries to drive with headlights on during clear weather.

watto23 said :

Regarding fog lights, the main reason cops don’t book for these, is because they are not fog lights. Most are driving lights with a lower brightness than main headlights. So the law is fog lights, but manufacturers call them driving lights and make sure they are no brighter than headlights.

No, manufacturers call them fog lights and that is what they are. Yes some are brighter than others. Commodores, Falcons and some Subaru’s are particularly bright but in the context of law enforcement they should all be turned off in clear weather.

Many cars these days also have daytime running lights (DRL’s) which might be what you are referring to. I am making a distinct reference to fog lights, which is what the vast majority of the offenders are using.

wildturkeycanoe said :

I only see road rage brewing when people use the right hand lane and drive 10-20km/h below the limit, thus slowing ALL the traffic behind them. The tail-gating, beeping, headlight flashing and constant lane swapping by the frustrated person/s behind will eventually result in road rage to various degrees.
It all comes down to courtesy, if you aren’t going to turn right at the next intersection, don’t use the right hand lane.

Really? I doubt that I’m alone in having experienced road rage from people when I haven’t been driving any slower than the speed limit, (but obviously not ‘just the 5 or 10 over’ that most people find acceptable).)
I think the problem with most of these self-absorbed idiots is that they think you should be driving at whatever speed THEY think you should be going.

At any rate, close tailgating and other aggressive behaviour is never justified. In my opinion, it is never the fault of anyone else but the perpetrator.

I only see road rage brewing when people use the right hand lane and drive 10-20km/h below the limit, thus slowing ALL the traffic behind them. The tail-gating, beeping, headlight flashing and constant lane swapping by the frustrated person/s behind will eventually result in road rage to various degrees.
It all comes down to courtesy, if you aren’t going to turn right at the next intersection, don’t use the right hand lane.

I’ve noticed an alarming increase of road rage incidents since the release of Eastman last Friday. Coincidence?

Very Busy said :

Yes, absolutely we need more police on the roads. We need them in both marked and unmarked vehicles. But most of all, we need them to enforce ALL of the road rules. The reason that drivers here flaunt the road rules is because they can. You can be a terrible driver, an arrogant and rude driver, and easily get away with it because there are no consequences for doing the wrong thing.

The use of fog lights in clear weather is a good example. Rightly or wrongly, using fog lights in clear weather conditions is illegal. That is the law. Yet about 15% of drivers have them turned on in clear weather. No one ever gets a ticket for committing this offence. The message this gives is that it is quite ok to break the law. If it is deemed that it is ok to use fog lights in clear weather then CHANGE THE LAW. While the law exists, the police are failing in their duty by not enforcing it.

Only when we train drivers (by using proper law enforcement) to obey ALL the road rules, will we see a drop in the numbers of speed, red light, and mobile phone related offences. We need to change the culture.

It always amuses me when Rod Anderson gets on the media and says he is “yet again disappointed with Canberra drivers” and he is doing nothing to change anything. Just keeps peddling the same old lines that few people take any notice of.

Perhaps Rod Anderson in conjunction with Minister Rattenbury could kick off a campaign seeking feedback from road users to identify locations where road rules are commonly ignored. Such as: Turning right from Brisbane Ave onto Wentworth Ave in the afternoon peak. It’s difficult to wait until the solid line finishes, to move over to the left on Wentworth Ave because drivers behind illegally cross the solid line and undertake. People will think twice if they get a ticket for this type of offence which currently gets no special attention.

It has got to the point where it will take a long time, perhaps a decade or so, to change the culture.

Regarding fog lights, the main reason cops don’t book for these, is because they are not fog lights. Most are driving lights with a lower brightness than main headlights. So the law is fog lights, but manufacturers call them driving lights and make sure they are no brighter than headlights. They are also often very low and tilted towards the road surface. A cop will never book someone for that offence if commonsense is its not causing a hazard to other drivers. drive with your high beams on in with other traffic around and you’ll get booked.
Some other laws Canberrans are not aware of is giving way at a roundabout. It doesn’t matter if you are not turning into the lane the car on the roundabout is in, the law is give way to them, which means wait til they have passed before entering the roundabout safely.
Also people complain about tailgating and I agree completely about how dangerous it is. But its also dangerous to have the attitude of stuff them, I’m staying in this lane regardless.
People also need to be mindful, that they could in fact be doing say 70km/h in an 80 zone and their dial says 80 km/h. Speedos can be out significantly especially if its under the speed limit. OK its legal, but not courteous. So antagonistic attitudes by people who feel they are always in the right actually doesn’t help either.

I’m definitely in favour of more police on the roads and I’d wouldn’t have an issue with license retesting either. Even just the rules test done every 5 years and maybe a practical test done at say 40 and 60, 70 and 5 years thereafter. I’m not saying older drivers are worse, I’m just saying reactions times and ability to judge does get worse with age. I have the same argument with my 90 yr old grandfather who still drives. He hasn’t got an issue with it, but I suggest if he caused an accident and he lived and the other person died how does he think the other persons family will feel.

I think it would help to alter the rules a bit to promote traffic flow, much like you see in California, for example. People get frustrated, then stressed, then a simply mistake pushes people into action they wouldn’t normally take.

A couple of weeks ago turning onto the Monaro Hwy heading north I headed out into the slip lane, indicated, then began to move into the traffic. Normally, traffic in that lane slows down a bit, and we do the ‘zipper’ thing to get everyone into one lane. But no, Mr Grey Audi was having none of that, he nailed the throttle to cut me off shouting through the window despite there being no chance of collision and no surprises. His numberplate started with ‘CRY’, and I can see why! But he probably wouldn’t normally behave like that, but was stressing out and a perceived slight pushed him over the edge.

Enough amateur psychiatry from me. Back to full strength coffee…

magiccar9 said :

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

One of the biggest problems is also people who think that by obeying every rule to the letter they’re doing the right thing.

um, the issuance of your driver’s licence is in the expectation that you will obey all of the road rules – or is there a way i missed when i got mine to pick and choose the ones that suit you? the example you go on to cite is a grey area but, as you argue, this is less than safe and certainly not courteous – which is a commodity that can’t be enforced but should be in every driver’s repertoire as they manoeuvre their deadly machines about the public road system.

testing for a driver’s licence ought to be much more rigorous and repeated at much more frequent intervals. i’d be happy to see rigorous re-testing on say a one in five random pick every five years (when licences here are renewed) and perhaps more intense rules testing (a written or on-line screen test of road rules). and you wouldn’t know if you’re being picked for a driving test until you line up to pay, so you’d need to brush up. if we spend money here, we save much more from our battered health system and insurance costs.

a no-brainer for mine, but which politician will take up the gauntlet?

I too have done many stupid things in cars, 20+ years ago. And completely agree there’s way too many people losing it over nothing on our roads.

But all the police in the world aren’t going to stop people getting upset with each other.

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

If you want more ‘visible’ Police on our roads, then you have to increase our Police presence. They’re not just siting at the the Police station twiddling their thumbs. If you want more Police on the road then the ongoing cost of that has to come from somewhere. Rates? New Taxes on Registration?, a bit like the Road Rescue Tax maybe?

We do have traffic police but as mentioned by Very Busy all they seem to care about is catching speeding drivers. I pick up my kids from school everyday and each term we get one or two afternoon visits by the police. However all they seem to do is get out a radar gun, check the speed of a few cars and drive off.

Meanwhile there are parents blocking driveways, going the wrong way down car parks, parking illegally and obstructing vision, failing to give way properly, weaving over the road while talking on phones, parking in disabled spots, etc, etc.

There is a reason a dozen people on average die on the road in the ACT each year and it has as much, if not more, to do with these type of drivers as it does with the much maligned speeding or “hoon” driver. And it that aspect of driver behaviour that frustrates people to the point of road rage because there are no consequences.

I would love to see a compulsory 3-6 month driving ban for anyone who contributes to an accident through breaking the road rules. Be it following too closely, undercutting by crossing solid lines, failing to give way.

“I’ve done a lot of stupid things in cars and on motorbikes in my life. I’ve driven drunk on numerous occasions; I’ve pushed a car past 200 KMs per hour; and once, I attempted to jump over a small dam on my little XR 75… I didn’t… quite… make it. However, I’ve never had an accident on a public road”

Pure luck you have never had an accident on a public road; driving drunk on numerous occasions – didn’t you think you might be lethal and kill someone? Same with pushing a car past 200kms per hour. You’re lucky to be here and other people are lucky you didn’t kill or maim them.
I got my driver’s licence at 17, but I have never driven drunk, or driven at anything close to the speeds you mention. At 17 I was an awful driver and recognised my limits because of inexperience. I lived in a country town and it was too easy to get a driver’s licence. Most kids got their licence with very little driving practice. Basically, if you didn’t crash driving around a few streets in the village and could answer questions on the road rules, you were handed a licence by the local policeman. After I had a licence and gained some experience (on winding, narrow roads along the side of escarpments, etc, some of them dirt roads, potholed roads) my driving improved and I became more confident. I drove faster and have at times pushed the speed limit a little, but only a little. I now find I drive on dirt roads with more confidence than many people. Yes, it can be argued ‘confidence’ is in the mind of the holder. But I would never push a car past 200kms per hour or drive drunk. I am able to recognise how very, VERY dangerous and irresponsible this is, and have been able to since I received my licence at 17. So why couldn’t you?

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

If you want more ‘visible’ Police on our roads, then you have to increase our Police presence. They’re not just siting at the the Police station twiddling their thumbs. If you want more Police on the road then the ongoing cost of that has to come from somewhere. Rates? New Taxes on Registration?, a bit like the Road Rescue Tax maybe?

Use the “Road Rescue Tax” to pay for it! We don’t need this fee, and if we use it to fund a higher visible police presence on the roads wouldn’t the rate of people needing this assistance decrease anyway?

One of the biggest problems is also people who think that by obeying every rule to the letter they’re doing the right thing. Just because it’s legal to do 65 in an 80 zone occupying the right-hand lane doesn’t mean it’s safe and/or logical to do so. If traffic is flowing at 5 or 10 over the limit, roll with it – you’re only creating a problem for yourself by being self-righteous. People who conduct this type of behaviour are actually increasing road rage and basically bringing it upon themselves (if we’re being honest here).

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

If you want more ‘visible’ Police on our roads, then you have to increase our Police presence. They’re not just siting at the the Police station twiddling their thumbs. If you want more Police on the road then the ongoing cost of that has to come from somewhere. Rates? New Taxes on Registration?, a bit like the Road Rescue Tax maybe?

The never ever GST was meant to put and end to the taxes you mention. Why isn’t there a public outcry over these things. People must have short memories.

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

If you want more Police on the road then the ongoing cost of that has to come from somewhere. Rates? New Taxes on Registration?, a bit like the Road Rescue Tax maybe?

…..or traffic fines. 🙂

Having come to Canberra from Wollongong about three years ago, the drivers here are better in some regards, and worse in others.

We certainly drive faster down here, but as a cyclist, I have an easier time in traffic- More drivers here consider me a legitimate road user than back home.

I’m changing jobs soon, and the change means I’ll be driving every day, so perhaps I’ll be out there copping it for actually driving at the speed limit!

If you want more ‘visible’ Police on our roads, then you have to increase our Police presence. They’re not just siting at the the Police station twiddling their thumbs. If you want more Police on the road then the ongoing cost of that has to come from somewhere. Rates? New Taxes on Registration?, a bit like the Road Rescue Tax maybe?

Yes, absolutely we need more police on the roads. We need them in both marked and unmarked vehicles. But most of all, we need them to enforce ALL of the road rules. The reason that drivers here flaunt the road rules is because they can. You can be a terrible driver, an arrogant and rude driver, and easily get away with it because there are no consequences for doing the wrong thing.

The use of fog lights in clear weather is a good example. Rightly or wrongly, using fog lights in clear weather conditions is illegal. That is the law. Yet about 15% of drivers have them turned on in clear weather. No one ever gets a ticket for committing this offence. The message this gives is that it is quite ok to break the law. If it is deemed that it is ok to use fog lights in clear weather then CHANGE THE LAW. While the law exists, the police are failing in their duty by not enforcing it.

Only when we train drivers (by using proper law enforcement) to obey ALL the road rules, will we see a drop in the numbers of speed, red light, and mobile phone related offences. We need to change the culture.

It always amuses me when Rod Anderson gets on the media and says he is “yet again disappointed with Canberra drivers” and he is doing nothing to change anything. Just keeps peddling the same old lines that few people take any notice of.

Perhaps Rod Anderson in conjunction with Minister Rattenbury could kick off a campaign seeking feedback from road users to identify locations where road rules are commonly ignored. Such as: Turning right from Brisbane Ave onto Wentworth Ave in the afternoon peak. It’s difficult to wait until the solid line finishes, to move over to the left on Wentworth Ave because drivers behind illegally cross the solid line and undertake. People will think twice if they get a ticket for this type of offence which currently gets no special attention.

It has got to the point where it will take a long time, perhaps a decade or so, to change the culture.

The bottom line is if you’re not speeding there is almost zero chance of being caught for other dangerous driving behaviours that contribute to the major of casualty accidents in the ACT..

Until something is done about those, and the ease with which you can get and hold a driver’s licence, the road toll will remain about the same.

It’s hard to argue against the expected benefits increased Police presence on the roads would bring. But I’m sure someone has a study somewhere to prove that having less Police seen on our roads is better, haha.

I’ve been saying for years that there needs to be high visibility policing on Canberra roads but Simon Corbell obviously doesn’t believe it’s warranted. The ivory tower syndrome is alive and well!