Road Rule Reminder. 77: Give way to buses pulling out from bus stops.

It’s amazing the number of drivers posting here who seem to think that them having to give way to a bus turning out is so unfair and that the bus is pulling out in front of them illegaly, thats what right of way means you ***** idiots. As for those unaware of the law, you have never wondered what the sign on the back of every bus means? Give way to right turning vehicle – the guy who chased a bus back to the interchange to complain about this ought to have their licence taken away for ignorance. Canberra isn’t the only city with this law you know, buses in Sydney and Melbourne have it too. I always understood it was a fairly well known road law, it seems thats not the case in Canberra though, and you wonder why us pedestrians / bike riders / public transport users get so pissed off at car drivers on here when they don’t even understand and follow basic road rules. Good on ya Sgt. Bungers.

Creekgirl said :

I am aware of and adhere to this road rule. However, some bus drivers take advantage of this rule. On many occasians I have stopped behind a bus with it’s right indicator on and the bus does not more for around a minute. Or, the bus driver turns on the indicator and pulls out at the same time, irrespective of whether you are beside them or not.

I think both bus drivers and others drivers should take more care with this road rule.

Agree. In fact the most recent time I saw a bus driver having a leisurely conversation with someone on the kerb with his right indicator on was just yesterday and I was going to start a thread about it myself! If they used their indicators properly more people might feel the indicator is actually worth paying attention to. I look for it but it’s not much help when you’re already beside the bus and with traffic behind you. At the other extreme obediently sitting behind an indicating bus for some length of time while the driver obliviously enjoys a kerbside conversation doesn’t inspire respect either.

bd84 said :

I was completely unaware of this road rule . . .

It worries me that there are drivers on our roads who don’t know simple rules like this, there are even pictures on the back of buses that indicate the need to give way . . .

Yeah, that’s was I was thinking, the picture on the back of the bus should tell you?

I agree that some common sense is necessary in these circumstances. However the number of times I’ve witnessed buses pull in to a bus stop and before they have come to a complete stop or given their passengers time to board, they have put their right blinker on. Any car coming along behind them would, under the road rules, be obliged to stop and give way to them. But if they haven’t finished loading their passengers what the hell is the right blinker doing on?

At times like this it only takes a small number or moronic bus drivers (or car drivers for that matter) to polarise opinion.

I’ve been fortunate to live in places where public transport is both accessible to my needs and affordable. Before you ask, in Sydney and Canberra to name but two places.

I got the passenger side of my car cleaned up late last year by a bus pulling out (from behind another bus at a bus stop) into the right lane of a dual carriageway, and for quite a while ACTION refused to accept liability. The insurance company finally nailed them.

This morning at the Civic interchange (Platform 5) I lost count of the number of buses going through red lights across Northbourne, and no there is not a “B” light at that intersection. I got more of a surprise when one actually stopped when there was an amber light!

Helen said :

So if the bus pulls out without indicating we don’t have to give way?

Correct.

nutter said :

I ask because this situation arose when I was around halfway up the length of the bus when he started to enter my lane and [I] chose to accelerate in front of the bus rather than throw out the anchors. A little further up the road was a set of traffic lights at which we were both turning right, the bus driver pulled right up behind my car and commenced gesticulating angrily towards me suggesting I had been in the wrong. Who was in the right?

The rule applies only to buses pulling out of bus stops (into the left lane only if it is a multi-lane road), not changing lanes. Having said that though, it’s not a good idea to EVER remain alongside a bus “halfway up the length” – this is the biggest blind spot for a bus. Either stay back further or overtake.

Mike Bessenger said :

When bus drivers learn the general road rules (and drive by them), I will adhere to this rule. Until then, stuff ’em.

Make sure you’ve got good insurance and a protected no claim bonus, because when you hit a bus pulling out of a bus stop you will be liable for the damage. Don’t say you haven’t been warned.

Just another example of why Canberra drivers don’t have a clue.

nutter said :

If a bus pulls our from a bus stop on a two lane road with their indicator on and I am in the right hand lane am I compelled to give way or is the give way rule only applicable to the lane they’re in?

Easy—it’s right there in the OP:

77 Giving way to buses.
(1) A driver driving on a length of road in a built-up area, in the left lane or left line of traffic, or in a bicycle lane on the far left side of the road, must give way to a bus in front of the driver

(emphasis mine)

This rule doesn’t apply if you’re in the right-hand lane.

Thanks for bringing this up Sgt.

Just before Christmas I was travelling on a bus when another car driver failed to give way to it. The bus had to stop suddenly and I ended up being thrown down the aisle in a disturbing fashion and sustaining some pretty awful bruises on my head and back. I was very lucky not to get concussion.

Please everyone show some respect to buses. It’s not only about obeying the law, but about remembering the passengers on the bus are not wearing seatbelts. Not only that, but they are often old or frail and not able to easily recover from motor accident injuries.

I was completely unaware of this road rule, being taught and getting my car drivers license about 8 years ago. I found out about it the hard was when I was in civic near the bus interchange, I was passing a bus in my falcon doing the speed limit and then this bus driver pulled right out on me from a bus stop when I was next to him forcing me to cross the double line into oncoming traffic. I was so close to eating it but managed to swerve the oncoming and pull back onto the right side of the road. I was so angry I followed the bus into the interchange but lost him, so I parked outside the bus info booth and stormed in. After having an angry vent at the booth guy he apologized for what happened and told me about this rule. First time I’d heard it!

It worries me that there are drivers on our roads who don’t know simple rules like this, there are even pictures on the back of buses that indicate the need to give way. It just shows how the licence system needs a radical overhaul to ensure that all drivers/riders are given proper instruction with licenced instructors instead of with mummy and daddy just sitting next to them passing on their bad habits.

I’m more worried about the road rage you clearly admit to, you’re very lucky you didn’t end up in the cells.

–

damien haas said :

This is one of my pet peeves. drivers should slow when they see a bus at the side of the road, in expectation it wll pull out momentarily. The number of times i’ve seen the bus pull out and drivers honk their horn in petty anger is uncountable. Every small percent gained in trip times helps the public transport system function, and makes it more attractive to the general public. Running on time helps this.

You pretty much hit it on the head in your first sentence, there would be some common sense involved to see the bus pull to the bus stop and to infer that the same bus will soon indicate an move away from the curve. The bus has right of way once it indicates its intention to leave the curb, as a driver you’re required to slow to allow it to pull out if you are behind the bus when it does so. Just because you’re going faster than it doesn’t make you immune to the law. Most people “end up beside a bus pulling out” when they try and force past it, it’s as simple as that.

damien haas said :

This is one of my pet peeves. drivers should slow when they see a bus at the side of the road, in expectation it wll pull out momentarily.

Why would a bus only pull out for a moment?

Maybe it will pull out presently.

nutter said :

Questions for the legalists out there in relation to point C.

If a bus pulls our from a bus stop on a two lane road with their indicator on and I am in the right hand lane am I compelled to give way or is the give way rule only applicable to the lane they’re in?

I ask because this situation arose when I was around halfway up the length of the bus when he started to enter my lane and chose to accelerate in front of the bus rather than throw out the anchors. A little further up the road was a set of traffic lights at which we were both turning right, the bus driver pulled right up behind my car and commenced gesticulating angrily towards me suggesting I had been in the wrong. Who was in the right?

I’m not a bus driver or a cop but I would say the give way rule only applies to first lane. I dare say the bus driver quite possibly didn’t see you (sounds like you might of been in his “blind spot”) and then the driver reacted badly to the near miss.

damien has said

FYI i reviewed the REDEX system recently and it seems to work well. Im not sure if it is attracting the required passenger numbers though

Slightly OT, but I couldn’t comment on your blog, so I thought I’d reply here about the Redex.

I used the Redex for a week, last week, and found it very good. I haven’t caught an ACTION bus in over a decade, so this is a great service for what I expected.

As for your comment on seperate Redex platforms, there’s no need. I caught the bus from Gungahlin (first stop) to Civic and back again and only on about 2 occasions were there more than one bus lined up at either the Marketplace or Platform 8 in Civic.

Also, why would ACTION limit a particular bus to only one route. If ACTION colour-coded a Redex bus, then people would be confused if that bus was used for any other route. The display sign on the front of the bus is ample, and I found quite large and hard to miss.

…… I was passing a bus in my falcon doing the speed limit and then this bus driver pulled right out on me from a bus stop when I was next to him ……..

and that Jim Jones is just what I’m talking about – nuff said

How about when I’m trying to change into the left lane and a bus intentionally trying to close the gap? One such ACTION driver did that to me this morning on Northbourne. The gap was more than large enough for me to fit in and I was indicating well in advance (probably why he tried to close the gap). When I did change lane, he starts flashing his high beams. I am happy to give way to buses, but they don’t own the left lane and they need to allow cars into it if they need to make left turns. Totally unjustified and unnecessary.

What most bus drivers do is wait for 2 cars to go by, the third car in the row should of noticed the indicators, so then they pull out.
But as I drive home, I see the passengers board the bus & anticipate when the bus will pull out & slow down to let them in.
The main thing is to just be PATIENT! The bus will eventually pull into a bus bay/lane or onto the next road.

Common sense really: a bus is bigger than a car so give way…

This is one of my pet peeves. drivers should slow when they see a bus at the side of the road, in expectation it wll pull out momentarily. The number of times i’ve seen the bus pull out and drivers honk their horn in petty anger is uncountable. Every small percent gained in trip times helps the public transport system function, and makes it more attractive to the general public. Running on time helps this.

I also think that there should be dedicated bus lanes and priority sensors for traffic lights on all buses so they dont have to stop at red lights with the commuting car public.

FYI i reviewed the REDEX system recently (on my blog at: http://onfourwheels.blogspot.com/2009/12/redex-one-month-on-review.html )and it seems to work well. Im not sure if it is attracting the required passenger numbers though.

I support the thinking that bus drivers should wait a couple of seconds before launching out, it’s the same principle as indicatin 30m before a turn, to provide forewarning.

And PB, you do lose points rather than gain them, it gets to a point where you only have 4, 0 or whatever points left, and you get them back after a certain amount of time (anyone know what that is?).

Jim Jones – here we go again – bile on, spit. Do you bother reading posts yourself – they may have right of way but that means to pull out safely, not flick and go with no observance of traffic. Pulling out in to a car already alongside is their fault, not the car’s. I do observe to see what they will do but one cannot stop behind them all day in a flow of traffic on the off chance they decide, ‘now’, to come out. As others have posted, some bus drivers will observe traffic flow once they indicate and then pull out – if I see an indicator come on I will slow/stop to allow then to enter the road, but I short of stopping behind every bus halted at a stop until such time as they choose to indicate to come out, which is what you appear to want to happen, the reality of the world is that whatevre the law says, they still have a requirement, as do all road users to drive safely, as do we to allow them to enter when we can.

There are a number of bus drivers who believe in the letter of the law it would appear and flick and go with no observance of conditions. e.o.s.

now, flame away James, vitriol shields at 100.

In the ACT, a driver of a vehicle who fails to give way to a bus is liable to loose 3 demerit points.

Surely one would gain three demerit points?

Drivers convicted of certain driving-related offences have demerit points recorded on their records … Drivers convicted of certain driving-related offences have demerit points recorded on their records. It is a common misconception that drivers “lose” points due to convictions for certain traffic offences.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/demerit.shtml http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/demerit.shtml

When bus drivers learn the general road rules (and drive by them), I will adhere to this rule. Until then, stuff ’em.

Jim Jones said :

They have right of way. How does ‘might is right’ come into it at all?

See (b) in the road rule.

Jim Jones said :

The reason bus drivers put on their indicators and pull out ‘regardless of traffic’ is because, if they didn’t, no-one would give way to them (see “narcissistic driving habits of the Canberran” vol. 24) and they’d never get anywhere. It’s the ‘traffics’ responsibility to give way to the bus, not the other way around.

How can one give way to a bus when there is no warning they’re about to pull out?

I have seen bus drivers put on the indicator, wait a ‘reasonable’ time, then begin to move and pull out. This gives ample warning to those that know (or care) about the law, and leaves those that don’t in exactly the same position as if the bus had just pulled out like an idiot.

Creekgirl said :

I am aware of and adhere to this road rule. However, some bus drivers take advantage of this rule. On many occasians I have stopped behind a bus with it’s right indicator on and the bus does not more for around a minute. Or, the bus driver turns on the indicator and pulls out at the same time, irrespective of whether you are beside them or not.

I think both bus drivers and others drivers should take more care with this road rule.

The first occasion may not always be the drivers fault due to the need to deal with passengers getting on the bus could cause a delay. Although I have never seen a bus with its indicator on for “a minute” without pulling out.. 15 seconds or so at most. The second situation I have seen on occasion, but in 95% of cases the car being beside the bus as it pulls out is normally due to the driver of the car not obeying the give way rule and attempting to beat the bus. On most occasions the bus drivers avoid an accident by waiting for someone to obey the law and give way.

grump said :

we’ve had this discussion before and while the above 3 points are acknowledged, I am fed up with the number of times “might is right” is the bus driver’s attitude, and it’s indicator on and go – regardless of traffic

It would take some common sense that in most occasions other traffc should give way to the bus changing lanes, but then not people have enough brain cells to realise that buses need to be in particular lanes to let passengers off and on or to make a forthcoming turn and they do not have the option of going another route if they miss a turn. The majority of drivers I have seen will stick it’s indicator on and keep it on until someone lets them in.

But as with any other driver on the road, they don’t always do proper mirror checks and on occasion I’ve nearly been taken out by a bus trying to change lanes. Having said that, the problem is more common in car drivers indicating and changing lanes whether there’s room or not, and an epidemic in motorcyclists who think they can do whatever they want because they’re small enough to fit.

Questions for the legalists out there in relation to point C.

If a bus pulls our from a bus stop on a two lane road with their indicator on and I am in the right hand lane am I compelled to give way or is the give way rule only applicable to the lane they’re in?

I ask because this situation arose when I was around halfway up the length of the bus when he started to enter my lane and chose to accelerate in front of the bus rather than throw out the anchors. A little further up the road was a set of traffic lights at which we were both turning right, the bus driver pulled right up behind my car and commenced gesticulating angrily towards me suggesting I had been in the wrong. Who was in the right?

I hate when they pull out, then proceed to dawdle along at 60km/h or less in 80km/h zone because they are ahead of schedule. Grrrrr.

grump said :

we’ve had this discussion before and while the above 3 points are acknowledged, I am fed up with the number of times “might is right” is the bus driver’s attitude, and it’s indicator on and go – regardless of traffic

Did you even read the post before responding?

They have right of way. How does ‘might is right’ come into it at all?

The reason bus drivers put on their indicators and pull out ‘regardless of traffic’ is because, if they didn’t, no-one would give way to them (see “narcissistic driving habits of the Canberran” vol. 24) and they’d never get anywhere. It’s the ‘traffics’ responsibility to give way to the bus, not the other way around.

So if the bus pulls out without indicating we don’t have to give way? 🙂

I give buses (and trucks for that matter) a wide berth on the road. Buses can be fairly unpredictable, especially if you’re driving in an unfamiliar part of town and you don’t know the bus routes.

Trucks I avoid because I have seen way too many near misses. As wrong as the “might is right” attitude can be, I’d still prefer to give way/get out of the way rather than get smeared all over the road.

I am aware of and adhere to this road rule. However, some bus drivers take advantage of this rule. On many occasians I have stopped behind a bus with it’s right indicator on and the bus does not more for around a minute. Or, the bus driver turns on the indicator and pulls out at the same time, irrespective of whether you are beside them or not.

I think both bus drivers and others drivers should take more care with this road rule.

we’ve had this discussion before and while the above 3 points are acknowledged, I am fed up with the number of times “might is right” is the bus driver’s attitude, and it’s indicator on and go – regardless of traffic

Ignorance of the law highlights that we as Canberra drivers are spoilt with good roads and nanny-state style road markings and traffic signals, so when it comes to driver discretion (despite a sign on the bus telling you) most drivers tend to neglect their duty and responsibility… I always give way to buses pulling out especially in case the bus drivers doesn’t see me, the bus will win. Is the bus driver allowed to record number plates of drivers who disregard the law in the same way as emergency vehicles can when drivers fail to move out of the way in an emergency? A shame ratetheplate isn’t up anywmore. I support name and shame!