Significant slow internet speed lately in Dunlop area

Look out! Telstra boss Chris Taylor has accepted our invite. He will be attending the Gungahlin Community Council meeting on 9 June, at the Palmerston Community Centre Tiptree Crs (behind the shops), from 7.30 pm.

From the comments we’ve been getting on our website article, the room ain’t going to be big enough…

For those unable to attend, as always we will video the whole meeting and post it online.

Wonder if I should invite someone from a couple of the other ISPs too??

DMN said :

Telstra have now committed themselves to upgrading a number of exchanges that have insufficient backhaul – Melba is one of them

That would be good news!!! Obviously a little pressure getting to them…

I’ll call my ISP (TPG) and see if they can confirm.

Hi guys – I have been told by my ISP today that Telstra have now committed themselves to upgrading a number of exchanges that have insufficient backhaul – Melba is one of them – apparently this is to be completed by June 30 this year.

We all live in hope!

Smeg said :

Not sure if the OP knows what he is talking about. There is No RIM in Dunlop and Dunlop is on the Melba exchange not Crace.

Gungahlin does has massive issues at the moment. They have a sub exchange that is just an extension of the Crace exchange which services a very large area and is also a very rapidly growing area. This however should have no effect at all on Dunlop.

The problems you are seeing with your connection is a Layer 1 issue in Sydney for people on particular plans usng the telstra backbone. Its been ongoing for several weeks. Its a result of Agile and other layer 2 providers buying large chunks of layer 1 carrier service to the states. (Not gunna explain Layer 1 and layer 2 internet to laymen without being paid for it)

The short version of this is. Stop using Crappy telstra backbone services. They charge for both upload and download and have high overheads. They do not pay for download from their carier service and it’s just a method of leeching more money out of you.

In the last 2 months people in Canberra (myself included) on non-telstra backbone services have see their internet speeds halve.

Most if not all of Dunlop is most certainly on a RIM’s or CMUX’s (the newer parts). As for using services other than Telstra that is the core problem. With RIM/CMUX suburbs Telsra is the only option, unless we can somehow get other ISP’s to start depolying ADSL termination equipment into street cabinets. But bet ya even if that happened the NIMBY’s would be complaining about the eyesores!

Pork Hunt said :

What if it’s the Government testing the proposed internet filter on Gungahlinites? Stop surfing porn sites and see if the speed increases you heathens…

Nope. The porn is still there… not that I would know… of course… ummmm, how ’bout that weather we’re having!?!

Smeg said :

…There is No RIM in Dunlop… Stop using Crappy telstra backbone services…

Just wondering if you are playing semantics? Nearly all of Dunlop is on RIM/CMUX. Whilst it isn’t attached to Crace Exchange, Dunlop suffers the same woes as existing Gungahlin (which is why Crace Exchange has been mentioned in posts with the Dunlop issue) – shitty Telstra Infrastructure.

Dunlop (and Gungahlin) have the problem of simply not having alternatives. If you know something different, please feel free to share… Dunlop and Gungahlin residents are pretty sick of beating their heads against walls.

Perhaps if Telstra shareholders want to know why Telstra should improve their service t these areas, they should examine today’s story on ABC News: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/20/2877959.htm

On a side note – has anyone else noticed the “preview” button not working?

What if it’s the Government testing the proposed internet filter on Gungahlinites? Stop surfing porn sites and see if the speed increases you heathens…

Previous comment by me. halve of Double depending on how you think about Internet speed.

“become faster” is probably what I should have used.

Not sure if the OP knows what he is talking about. There is No RIM in Dunlop and Dunlop is on the Melba exchange not Crace.

Gungahlin does has massive issues at the moment. They have a sub exchange that is just an extension of the Crace exchange which services a very large area and is also a very rapidly growing area. This however should have no effect at all on Dunlop.

The problems you are seeing with your connection is a Layer 1 issue in Sydney for people on particular plans usng the telstra backbone. Its been ongoing for several weeks. Its a result of Agile and other layer 2 providers buying large chunks of layer 1 carrier service to the states. (Not gunna explain Layer 1 and layer 2 internet to laymen without being paid for it)

The short version of this is. Stop using Crappy telstra backbone services. They charge for both upload and download and have high overheads. They do not pay for download from their carier service and it’s just a method of leeching more money out of you.

In the last 2 months people in Canberra (myself included) on non-telstra backbone services have see their internet speeds halve.

Gungahlin Al said :

Have posted the Gungahlin News article, for anyone interested.

Thanks!

I’m sure the June meeting will be very interesting.

Hello, I thought I’d add my 2c as I’ve been chasing this issue for over a year now. At first I thought the problem was on my end. I mean that’s what my ISP claimed for a few months, they had me doing isolation tests, replacing equipment etc.

I don’t know as much about the actual infrastructure as a few people on here, but being in the business, I knew the problem wasn’t on my end. I spent a little while collecting data both peak and off-peak, when I presented them to my ISP, they said “Oh yes, the problem is actually congestion, we’re looking into it”. So it ended, I’ve put in dozens of tickets since then, spoke to ACT Broadband about it, went to the TIO and at the end of the day all I was offered was to be released from my internet contract without paying a fee.

However, I’m on call 24/7. If my net doesn’t work, I have to drive over to the other end of town. I need this link, and currently I sort of feel helpless. My street was actually mentioned by name, as being the worst and that’s correct.

Many nights, I literally have no net. I actually run two connections, one ADSL, the other wireless, both which are useless most nights. When I bought my house around a year ago, I did a basic search for the net and the results came back with ADSL2, which would have suited me fine, however when I went to apply, I was told this was incorrect. I’ve spoken to my neighbors who all report utterly terrible internet. I’ve researched all other forms of internet, which I either cannot get, or will not support the type of connection I need.

Standard ADSL is perfectly acceptable to me. I don’t need the connection to be that fast, just not as utterly unreliable as it is at the moment. Tonight, I recorded about a 10% packet loss and 1kms pings to the ISP’s DNS server.

For now, I don’t know what to do anymore, so I just post here and there. I’m pretty sure even ACT Broadband is going largely unnoticed. What chance do I have?

dvaey said :

the government has a program setup to subsidise satellite broadband services. Dunlop however, doesnt quite classify as ‘remote’.

The Broadband Guarantee? No RIM affected areas qualify because (on paper, at least) we are able to get ADSL (at faster than 512).

We certainly cannot get 3G, TransACT, iBurst or Longreach (mostly related to where we are in Dunlop – LOS issues)… considering we get about .4mbit, 10-15 would be great!

Have posted the Gungahlin News article, for anyone interested.

Gerry-Built said :

Beside ADSL (1), our only other Broadband option in Jarramlee Park (Dunlop) is the prohibitively expensive satellite.

If you truly are in a remote area, unserviced by any other broadband service, the government has a program setup to subsidise satellite broadband services. Dunlop however, doesnt quite classify as ‘remote’.

Grail said :

Many suburbs such as Dunlop don’t have a dozen options, they have one: that one option is a Telstra line of some form, whether it’s from Telstra or a retail service provided using Telstra wholesale services. There’s pathetic 3G coverage, there’s no TransACT, iBurst or other radio wireless coverage.

While I admit Ive never been to the far reaches of Dunlop, a quick look at the TransACT mobile broadband coverage maps, shows unless youre on a farm near Gundaroo, or Wamboin or Williamsdale, there is 3G coverage.

Does Longreach count as ‘other radio wireless coverage’? Sure, it might only give you speeds of 10-15mbit, but youll just have to live with that.

Please do your homework before pretending to have a technical opinion.

As for Mangagal, while I enjoy a good rant as much as the next person, I’d like to remind Mangagal that this is RiotACT, not the dear_gnome community on LiveJournal. There are ways to rant without expressing your frustration level as a bar graph consisting of exclamation marks 😉

Thanks Gungahlin Al. I’ll keep an eye out for it.

PS: the meeting I’ve invited him to is 9 June. May’s meeting is already booked up.

SolarPowered said :

Gungahlin Al said :

I have a received a message from Chris Taylor – the General Manager of Telstra Countrywide for the region.

He is “extremely bemused by the inaccuracies in the article [in Gungahlin News] in terms of the internet situation in Gungahlin” from ACT Broadband and myself.

I haven’t come across Gungahlin News before. I live in the Gungahlin area and I’d love to read the article. Is it only delivered to certain suburbs?

Not surprising SP. It only gets delivered to the newer suburbs (Harrison, Franklin, Bonner, Forde, Casey and Crace), whereas the Chronicle only goes to the older suburbs. Both are from the Canberra Times.

I have a copy of the article and will get it up on the http://www.gcc.asn.au site over the next couple of days.

Gungahlin Al said :

I have a received a message from Chris Taylor – the General Manager of Telstra Countrywide for the region.

He is “extremely bemused by the inaccuracies in the article [in Gungahlin News] in terms of the internet situation in Gungahlin” from ACT Broadband and myself.

I haven’t come across Gungahlin News before. I live in the Gungahlin area and I’d love to read the article. Is it only delivered to certain suburbs?

eyeLikeCarrots said :

I’ve recently moved into Spence (Melba exchange) and connected an Internode naked ADSL2+ service. I get 8Mb synch. But after 5pm, web browsing becomes problematic. I TCPDUMP my http requests and sit there watching them drop into nowhere.

I actually had a better ADSL1 service from Internode in Hobart :-\

Have you tried reducing the agressiveness of your line profile? I had mine on “silly fast” and then one day everything went to hell with the phone line and the modem wouldn’t stay connected for more than a few seconds. I had to go around to a mate’s place to change it back to a gentler “Yes, you’re right, I don’t know what I’m doing, just make the internet work” setting.

Gungahlin Al said :

I have a received a message from Chris Taylor – the General Manager of Telstra Countrywide for the region.

He is “extremely bemused by the inaccuracies in the article [in Gungahlin News] in terms of the internet situation in Gungahlin” from ACT Broadband and myself.

He is asking for the opportunity to meet with us “to clarify the facts of the situation.”

So I am inviting him to a Gungahlin Community Council meeting so that he can do just that.

Oh God – Please make sure you publicise that meeting here!!! I’m sure a few Dunlop residents would like to have the chance to meet with him too… Perhaps he needs to discuss his point of view on ACT Broadband’s blog too? Have you got a form of the article you could post? What are the particular ‘inaccuracies’ to which he refers?

I have a received a message from Chris Taylor – the General Manager of Telstra Countrywide for the region.

He is “extremely bemused by the inaccuracies in the article [in Gungahlin News] in terms of the internet situation in Gungahlin” from ACT Broadband and myself.

He is asking for the opportunity to meet with us “to clarify the facts of the situation.”

So I am inviting him to a Gungahlin Community Council meeting so that he can do just that.

I’ve recently moved into Spence (Melba exchange) and connected an Internode naked ADSL2+ service. I get 8Mb synch. But after 5pm, web browsing becomes problematic. I TCPDUMP my http requests and sit there watching them drop into nowhere.

I actually had a better ADSL1 service from Internode in Hobart :-\

Gerry-Built said :

Thanks for your post – you’ve been more informative on the congestion problem in three sentences than my ISP, TIO and anyone I’ve written to; combined. I will send you an email today and forward some correspondence received re: TPG/Dunlop/TIO issues…

I’m also happy to speak to the neighbours and forward you their issues to help support your submission too. I’ll be keeping a diary during school holidays to note speedtests…

The more people who contact me the greater the chance I will have with the Minister to get the issues addressed. I would be appreciative if you could talk to your neighbours on my behalf.

I have spent about 9 months researching the issues in Gungahlin which is common in many RIM deployed areas around the country. North Lynham is another area in Canberra which is badly affected as is Jerra.

I am concerned with the move from ADSL to 3G wireless as it has similar characteristics as RIM technology. Be warned that congestion may also result on 3G causing the same performance issues as RIM’ed ADSL.

3G works by sharing voice and data between the mobile/USB modem and a multiplexor via a phone tower. An example of one of these multiplexors can be seen at the Belconnen Fresh Food market parking lot across the road from Bunnings or on near the roundabount on William Slim Drive and Chuculba Cres Giralang. They have big Telstra stickers on them and they are meters from a mobile tower. I assume the stickers means Telstra does not have an issue with advertising their location. The signal comes across the mobile phone frequency, into the tower and back to the exchange.

On 3G voice is prioritised over data with mobile calls reducing the available data bandwidth as with RIMs. Each mobile tower aerial has maximum bandwidth capability so the more people access the less each user gets. This is also consistant with the backhaul bandwidth limitations on most RIMs. 3G is also very bursty with speeds fluctuating significantly over longer download periods. This technology is not good for data connections that require stable latency and are more costly per meg of download.

Any of you who have written to Pollies or the TIO please let me know. I am gathering this sort of information to demonstrate the wide spread affect this issue to the people who can make decisions. Thanks for your support

I see the capitalisation is causing some issues here. Well, apology for getting frustrated when my deadline is approaching.

I enjoyed reading all the comments here. I had a deadline right up my butt and had no control on what I can do, calling the ISP or Telstra won’t change the fact that I couldn’t work. So, please excuse my frustration and all that ranting. I couldn’t help it because I was so close to losing my work.

I was angry because my internet plan is in fact ADSL. That is why I am more angry when I got an average speed of 50kb/sec for the entire week last week, and it is still a problem this week. I would love to ask my neighbours about the issues but I think they aren’t the exactly type that would care. I just get the feeling they rather be left alone.

Calling the ISP does help but it wouldn’t help me fix the problem of being on a pair gain system. I have written to Internote and TPG attempting to move out of my current ISP before this happened. Both offered the same plan as my current ISP with the same statement that I am on the pair gain system that there’s nothing they could do. I just have to take it, unfortunately.

Having lived in Dunlop, which is a beautiful and nice area, for the past 8 years. I have tried dial-up, satellite…etc so when I finally was told I could get ADSL, I was over the moon. Until after Xmas last year, my connection is slower than what I had before (satellite). I put up with it since then and pardon me if I have finally lost my cool.

I have given up complaining to any technical support helpdesk and telstra and everyone who possibly can help, so ranting here isn’t an option, I will just shut up and sign off.

ACT_Broadband said :

Any of you having issues with Canberra RIMS please contact me. I am in the middle of a submission to Senator Conroy and Kate Lundy and any additional community support will help.
russell(at)actbroadband.net

Thanks for your post – you’ve been more informative on the congestion problem in three sentences than my ISP, TIO and anyone I’ve written to; combined. I will send you an email today and forward some correspondence received re: TPG/Dunlop/TIO issues…

I’m also happy to speak to the neighbours and forward you their issues to help support your submission too. I’ll be keeping a diary during school holidays to note speedtests…

Aurelius – there’s a difference between what you might see at the ISP level, versus what your customers are actually experiencing. Many people who live in Dunlop will already have talked to their neighbours and found that everyone’s getting poor throughput on ADSL, so they don’t complain to you about it. Your equipment will show full sync speed, any speed tests you do from your test lines on the Melba exchange will show proper throughput, but you don’t see the network inbetween a RIM attached client and your pipe to Telstra Wholesale.

You can’t measure the congestion from your end because it’s on part of the network that you can’t even see – it’s the network that exists after the client’s router but before the first hop IP address on any traceroute. Any diagnostics that you do would only make it look like a problem with the customer’s equipment.

So of course you don’t see any problems. Go live in Dunlop (the area SW of Ginninderra Drive would be ideal, if you drive out there you’ll see a big “Jeramalee Park” sign) and see just how bad Telstra’s service can get. It’s worse there than in Binalong (a township of 400 people out past Yass) or Gunghalin.

Here are the symptoms you’ll see from the ISP end: nothing different to any other connection until the client starts a large download while the (invisible) RIM network is congested – at which point you’ll start seeing a large number of retransmitted packets (to the order of 10% of all traffic to that customer).

Here are the symptoms you’ll see from the client end: normal sync, normal ping times, but when the client starts any transfer larger than a couple of kB things slow to a crawl & latency shoots through the roof.

If you want more assistance, look for customers who have addresses in Grove Place, Loxton Place or Counihan Court. These are the most recent streets to have been built out, which means they’ll have the cheapest crappiest gear that Telstra could still scavenge up from their spare parts shed. It’s school holidays now, so you might get lucky and see the congestion happening during the day while you’re in the office.

Just remember – from the ISP end, everything looks “normal” except that when the customer starts a decent sized download (eg: >1MB) you’ll see even more traffic in the form of retransmitted packets. Most of the calls to the help desk will have been dismissed as client router problems: “reboot the router and call us back if the problem persists”. In the meantime the client is sitting at home wondering how a new suburb in Canberra has worse Internet connectivity than a 56kbps modem in Binalong.

So the essential technical points again:
– The congestion is happening on the (ATM?) network inside the Telstra Wholesale operations – that’s the copper cable from the client’s property to the nearest RIM or cMUX, the optical fibre from that to the exchange, and then the connection to the equipment within that exchange.
– That network is invisibly part of the “hop” between the client’s router IP address and your PPPoE/PPPoA server.
– The equipment that is experiencing the congestion will silently drop packets.
– Usual congestion times are 8pm to 1am, which is outside of your normal office hours.

Aurelius – might be an idea if you actually listen to what people say – do yourself another favor and carry out some more research of the actual problem in the Dunlop area – whirlpool / actbroadband.net and their will be others – ask Kate Lundy to brief you about the situation out this way.

Aurelius said:

“Me thinks you’ve heard some tattle about why it’s Telstra’s fault, and it’s shifted from being ‘lore’ to ‘law’.” – your kidding right?

JC said :

Maybe what we need to do is stop whining about Telstra and get other ISP’s to start installing their own gear in the street. Then and only then will users in RIM or CMUX area’s get a decent service without being reliant on the Telstra wholesale network.

I don’t think there is much incentive for other ISP’s to install their gear in the CMUX (is there even space inside for more ?), especially given that my ISP (Internode) probably only has 20 or so customers installed running off this infrastructure. I don’t know how much it would cost them, but I really can’t see it being economic for them to do so.

I’m not fully across the technical side of this debate, but I know pay for a 1500 Kbps connection and most nights I’m lucky if I get 256 kbps.

To the OP, I am sorry you are having issues. Welcome to the “pair gain inhibited” club.

To establish one or two things up front. Dunlop is full of RIMs and a few of them are at capacity. http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au keeps an eye on the capacity reports released by Telstra Wholesale each month. Dunlop can be see here http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/viewsuburb.php?Abbrev=DNLP

It is a fact that all RIMs are owned by Telstra Wholesale and all ISPs are forced to resell a Telstra Wholesale service.

There are two separate and dire issues with the Telstra deployed RIMs; the first is port availability and the second is congestion. There can be up to 400 individual phone lines connected to each RIM but the number of ADSL ports is significantly less. Anecdotal evidence indicates the maximum number of ADSL ports is less than 150 per RIM which means less than half of the households can get access. Some people have been on waiting lists for a long time waiting for ports to become free.

The second issue is congestion. This is the one everyone is suffering from at the moment. What happens is 400 phone lines and ADSL services all communicate back to the RIM before the information is directed back to the exchange. The backhaul connection between the RIM and the exchange is smaller in capacity than the number of phones and ADSL services.

It has been suggested that available connection from each RIM to the exchange is as small as 32 megabit per second (16 x 2meg PVCs for the techos). Also the voice calls are prioritised over ADSL data which means the more people pick up the phone the smaller the available capacity for internet access.

Any of you having issues with Canberra RIMS please contact me. I am in the middle of a submission to Senator Conroy and Kate Lundy and any additional community support will help.
russell(at)actbroadband.net

helpful links
http://www.actbroadband.net
http://www.katelundy.com.au/?s=internet+%2B+Gungahlin
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1150550

Aurelius said :

Me thinks you’ve heard some tattle about why it’s Telstra’s fault, and it’s shifted from being ‘lore’ to ‘law’.

Follow the link at post #1 – have a good read (especially “the problem” section). This is not being made up. Look at the statement TIO sent me at #26 (yes, was TIO, not ACCC)…

The issue is with Telstra infrastructure. TIO have told me that. TPG have told me that. TransACT have told me that… The ACT Broadband website has documentary proof from many sources (including the Government agencies and minister involved). The problem has been known and identified by far more capable sources than you, who have only the heresay of being “yet to encounter a single instance of an ADSL customer on a Telstra line having the issues you are with speeds off the Melba exchange”.

DMN is correct Aurelius. I used to live at my parents place in Melba and had a direct ADSL2+ connection to the Melba exchange. Speeds were consistantly awesome with ping times never higher than 30ms back to my ISP. No congestion and full speed the whole time.

Connecting to the same exchange now (Melba) through Dunlop RIM’s and I have congestion issues every evening.

When I go back to my parents house to visit the internet is consistantly excellent. The actual exchange itself is fine, it’s the RIM’s in Dunlop and lack of bandwidth from Dunlop back to the Melba exchange.

DMN, let us assume for a moment you’re right, and the fault does lie with Telstra. How does that explain why, in 3 years in this industry, I’ve yet to encounter a single instance of an ADSL customer on a Telstra line having the issues you are with speeds off the Melba exchange?
Me thinks you’ve heard some tattle about why it’s Telstra’s fault, and it’s shifted from being ‘lore’ to ‘law’.
Like anyone in this industry, I dislike Telstra as much as the next guy. And I lived in Ngunnawal for enough of last century to know Telstra has an appalling track record in the ACT. But your claims do not match my observations. And I am pretty confident I deal with enough ACT ADSL users each day to say my observations on the topic hold more water than many here.

Aurelius – the issue is not so much the exchange it is getting to the Melba exchange from Dunlop – lines are consistently saturated mainly at peaks times and has been on-going for quite some time and you may have struck it lucky and don’t service that many customers in the Dunlop area but I can assure you this is an increasing problem along with Gungahlin with no signs of it abating – Telstra is the cause of the problem and of course they do not want to invest due to the up and coming NBN if and when that ever eventuates.

You are correct Telstra has dropped the ball with an improvement required in all areas of communications across the ACT – do yourself a favor and come out our way and ask some people what they actually think of their current Internet services in the Dunlop area – you might be surprised.

DMN,
You seem to be indicating the problem exists with Telstra, and your choice of ISP would be immaterial so long as you’re using Telstra lines out of the Melba exchange (if I read you right?).
My point in highlighting that we’re not aware of any such issues is to illustrate that the local ISP I work for has many customers, using ADSL, on Telstra hardware, off the Melba exchange, including in Dunlop. So to say the problem is Telstra’s failure to sufficiently upgrade Melba exchange does not match with the reality, as observed over the last three years.
There are some coverage issues I’m aware of in Gungahlin, and the northern fringes of the Civic exchange area (North Lyneham, Watson – especially in the newer areas) but I am unaware of similar issues in Melba.
Having said that, I do believe Telstra have dropped the ball when it comes to the poor telecommunications infrastructure in the ACT, and there are several exchanges in need of upgrade/duplication (Crace, Lanyon, Manuka, Civic for starters).

I live in Dunlop as well and can sympathise with the situation. However posts with your caps lock button on dosen’t help the situation.

Essentially all of Dunlop is using RIM’s, the only thing that will fix this situation is if Telstra upgrades the infrastrucutre or if the NBN actually happens.

The best thing everyone can do is call up their ISP and lodge a fault with them, if enough faults are lodged with your ISP’s they can bring it to the attention of Telstra and hopefully they can recognise there is congestion and do something about it. The ISP can’t do anything as its the infrastrucutre thats the issue, not the ISP.

I just call my ISP up whenever ping times are high (500ms+ back to the ISP’s website) and say there is congestion. They log it and add it to my job.

Call up the ISP’s and lodge faults people! The only real way anything can be done about it.

I can only get a 1.5mb connection that is congested most evenings, but from what I hear I am lucky to get a line, some people in Dunlop cannot even get ADSL connected.

Also if you can get it, get TransACT SkyData. It’s ADSL 2+ fairly cheap and is not congested, you need to have LOS of Mt Rodgers though. My house can’t get it though 🙁

Hi Mick – unfortunately it will require significant investment to upgrade the infrastructure – its getting to the exchange that is the issue specifically in the Dunlop area anyway…ADSL2 will be a dream for most of us – maybe Aurelius’s Canberra based ISP would like to invest in the Dunlop area…I reckon they would be onto a sure thing and would gain many a clientele including me 🙂

And as per my previous post’s until this investment happens nothing will change…as per Grail’s comments we don’t have a choice at all it’s either Telstra/Telstra Wholesale and that’s it – you could move but for people that have already invested in a house in the Dunlop area (like me) that will not be happening any time soon.

Listen to JC’s comments and lets stop complaining about Telstra and encourage other ISP’s to invest in the area – this will be more likely to happen I can assure you.

Grail said :

There are ways to rant without expressing your frustration level as a bar graph consisting of exclamation marks 😉

LOL!

I wasn’t going to comment, but what the hay? For a technical and therefore presumably intelligent discussion, (putting aside obvious/deliberate typos) there has been the most appalling grammar, spelling and punctuation through this whole thread. And altogether WAY too many apostrophes…

dvaey said :

Comments like this, and the OP, make me realise how much people like shooting their mouth off about ISPs, while having no idea of OSI. Your telephone exchange is on layer 1-2, shaping is done around level 3-4.

Comments like this make me realise how much people like shooting their mouths off about technology they don’t understand.

OSI is the Open Systems Interconnection reference model, which officially has about 7 layers of technology starting with mechanical specification of the connectors used to hook the network together (eg: RS-232), the electronic signalling over the mechanical layer (X.21), the logic over that electronic signal (X.25), etc. The major mis-feature of OSI is error-checking and correction at every layer of the model.

The Internet only has a four layer model: Physical and Link being layer 1, Network (ie: IP), Transport (ie: UDP/TCP) and Application (ie: mail server, mail client). The major difference between Internet and OSI models is that Internet puts error checking (ie: a CRC) into each packet (Ethernet frames, IP packets, et al), but the error-correction is only done at one layer – which is layer 3 if using TCP or 4 if using UDP or other unreliable transport. Lower layers will simply discard broken packets.

If there werent about a dozen other options for internet in Canberra, then you might have a cause for concern, but if you dont like your ISP, then change.. its not rocket science

Many suburbs such as Dunlop don’t have a dozen options, they have one: that one option is a Telstra line of some form, whether it’s from Telstra or a retail service provided using Telstra wholesale services. There’s pathetic 3G coverage, there’s no TransACT, iBurst or other radio wireless coverage, there’s no access to the telephony gear for other ISPs to install their broadband connections.

Please do your homework before pretending to have a technical opinion.

As for Mangagal, while I enjoy a good rant as much as the next person, I’d like to remind Mangagal that this is RiotACT, not the dear_gnome community on LiveJournal. There are ways to rant without expressing your frustration level as a bar graph consisting of exclamation marks 😉

Aurelius said :

But if you’re gunna spout uninformed and unsubstantiated rubbish like “Telstra routinely shape at Melba exchange”, expect to be corrected on it.

Telstra shapes during peak periods of use; this was what we were told by our ISP (TPG). Feel free to explain further rather than just telling me I’m “sprouting… rubbish”, and helping lower the standard of the conversation

😛 (yes, I know I’m on RiotACT )… <–Smiley belongs here

We have been through several levels of Technical Support, from the "have you tried turning it 'off' and 'on' again?", "reset your modem" crap, through to the "we will contact Telstra". We formally lodged faults (with TPG); once in December, twice in January and once again in February. The final time, we also lodged a complaint with the ACCC. When the ACCC responded, they told us the following:

"As you are not an end user of a Telstra internet service it is not their responsibility to give you information about their infrastructure. Your internet provider is TPG. Telstra is the wholesaler that provides the infrastructure that enables TPG to provide you a service. Therefore, it is TPG’s responsibility to investigate and provide an explanation of the infrastructure issues that affect their ability to provide you a working service. As Telstra are there wholesaler, they are able to obtain this information and relay it to you.

Furthermore, you have been told that you cannot get an ADSL service because your premises is not supported by the right kind of infrastructure. I understand that you are not satisfied with this situation, but the TIO does not handle this type of complaint.

Decisions about the placement and type of network infrastructure are business decisions of the carrier that owns the infrastructure. If you would like to take your complaint further, you may want to raise the issue with your local Member of Parliament."

I have written to any local or Federal pollie I thought might be interested, with only one response to date, and that was Stanhope's "we'll write to Conroy…" letter…

Might be about time to lodge another complaint with TPG then…

Gungahlin Al said :

In Harrison here Hax – a newer suburb. And no they don’t. All of here and half of Franklin get whatever ADSL scraps are going only. And yes – like several people here we are experiencing absolutely crap bandwidth in the evenings over recent months.

ok it’s really only Forde and half of Franklin, and the ‘yet to be built’ suburbs.
My parents live in the ADSL part of Franklin and they have ongoing issues with speed, so I understand all to well!

Nobody wants to duplicate infrastructure, so even when there is competition (ie Telstra and TransACT) they divide the suburb in half to share equally – but this doesn’t ultimately give anyone a choice, since which half you live in dictates what is available.

I don’t think that gives Telstra any incentive to ‘up their game’ because in a sense their not actually competing with the competition!!

My comment about moving, I know is unreasonable, but is possibly a harsh truth if it’s really that important..
Upcoming suburbs will have superior infrastructure and who knows how long upgrading the existing ones will take?
Canberra is becoming a town of internet haves and have-nots!

Aurelius, it is not an ISP issue. It is a Telstra issue.

Check out http://actbroadband.net

@ACTBroadband, this one is right up your alley….

DMN said :

Being in the IT industry for many years and also having been heavily involved in the tech side of comms the suburb of Dunlop has been a total disaster for Telstra from the word go….

Thanks for the comment DMN. Being in Dunlop for several years I am pretty used to the slower speeds of the net (compared to what I was getting in Ainslie), and whilst I haven’t noticed any slower speeds recently, it would be nice if ADSL 2 was actually an option in our suburb. Originally my house was pair-gained and I couldn’t even get ADSL, so I guess I should be happy to get faster than dial-up at all.

So what needs to happen? Upgraded Melba exchange? A NEW exchange? Upgraded infrastructure? What would it take for anyone to invest in fixing it?

Aurelius – what has my ISP said about it…there waiting to hear from Telstra which has been the standard comment over the last 12 months – they have been contacted sometimes several times a week so until a network improvement is actually initiated nothing will change. I totally agree that most speed issues are usually customer related but I can assure you not in my case as my download speed is usually ok between the hours of 1 – 9 AM…attenuation / line sync etc are all within the norm.

BTW – my line is shaped and I think you will find so are many others out our way – due to the poor infrastructure in Dunlop they [Telstra] have little or no choice.

Since when is Dunlop in the middle of nowhere and cheap real estate – your kidding right? + Telstra were going to roll-out of the art equipment when it was in the greenfield stage – they changed their minds at the last minute but that really doesn’t surprise me. You are correct we have what we have and one day it will change – when will be the big question!

If your speeds are so appalling, what has your ISP said about it?
Until you call them, whinging in a public forum like RA or Whirlpool is just attention-seeking behaviour.
I work in a Canberra-based ISP, and in the last 3 years, I can count on one hand the number of speed issues that were for causes unknown or causes unresolvable.
In 90% of cases, it’s due to something local (something the customer has actually done, or their equipment being faulty or poorly set up). In almost all other cases, it’s due to poor wiring in the house.
Having said that, if you’re with Telstra, and Bigpond, you are being ripped off. None of their plans are best-in-market, so you’re harming yourself before you even start out.
I agree that as a customer, you shouldn’t need to know all the stuff explained in this thread. But if you’re gunna spout uninformed and unsubstantiated rubbish like “Telstra routinely shape at Melba exchange”, expect to be corrected on it.
Sure, noone should have to move for better internet access. But the reality is that your connection quality will be determined by the infrastructure in your area. And if the infrastructure is poor, it either needs to be upgraded, or you’ll suffer the consequences. Noone forced you to live in the middle of nowhere. Suburbs away from the centre of cities have cheaper real estate for a reason. Telecommunications infrastructure is just like transport infrastructure, educational infrastructure, medical infrastructure – until it arrives, you have got what you got.

Hi all – there are pockets in Dunlop that have reasonable connectivity…I sold my house in Traeger st 18 months ago and I was able to get around 6000kb/s day or night but that was 18 months ago so in my wisdom I decided to purchase another house in the Meadows (Hall side) and this is where my problems began, currently I am on a business 8000kb/s plan with PacNet (Pacific Internet) in other words Telstra Wholesale but my plan is automatically shaped to 2500kb/s why – because of those RIMS but the bigger problem is that most evenings my connection speed drops down to around 20-50kb/s which is below the guaranteed threshold of 128kb/s + my pings are over 1000ms – I have complained about this to PacNet for over 12 months and nothing happens mind you this is after all their spiel about how good they are as an ISP but in reality they are all the same and do nothing and before anyone says anything my equipment is fine.

Being in the IT industry for many years and also having been heavily involved in the tech side of comms the suburb of Dunlop has been a total disaster for Telstra from the word go – the bottom line is that they have skimped on the equipment for example when I was connecting up the ADSL 12 months ago I went down to the RIM in the meadows and checked the internals out – bottom line they are just saturated and cannot handle any form of congestion due to their age – so what next? – good question…I am currently looking at Skydata but even that has its limitations i.e. bad weather, LOS (Line of Sight technology), strong winds etc but if only I could get that stable connection! I also use Optus broadband card and for that matter a Telstra NextG card but as I have equipment at home that requires a static IP address so my choices are limited but keep in mind that the ISP’s are happy to keep on charging you for a service they know they cannot provide and do nothing about it – this is called profits to impress shareholders.

As Dunlop is a Brownfield site who know’s if TransACT will come and what with all the fighting over the NBN and who gets what and at what price it might be many years before something happens — also keep in mind that the new section (units etc) is coming on-line shortly so that will only add to the congestion, mind you Telstra had major problems with that as well – so guys and gals keeps you chins up and lets pray for a miracle because we certainly need one!

damien haas said :

wireless broadband through anyone but telstra.

solves all the angst.

Beside ADSL (1), our only other Broadband option in Jarramlee Park (Dunlop) is the prohibitively expensive satellite.

dvaey said :

Comments like this, and the OP, make me realise how much people like shooting their mouth off about ISPs, while having no idea of OSI. Your telephone exchange is on layer 1-2, shaping is done around level 3-4.

Yeah – you know what – I’m not in IT and I don’t give a stuff hang about all that you just dribbled on about. I shouldn’t even need to know what a CMUX or RIM, or understand what OSI *is* to simply receive an internet service. Simple fact is, in Gungahlin and Dunlop, where people live – service is substandard. Any suggestion of moving for better internet is just dumb – why should I have to move to where the good service is? Telstra have equipment not up to standard, and there is ample Government support to rectify the situation.

dvaey said :

Gerry-Built said :

Oh, BTW we were told that Telstra routinely shapes at the Melba exchange during times of congestion..

Comments like this, and the OP, make me realise how much people like shooting their mouth off about ISPs, while having no idea of OSI. Your telephone exchange is on layer 1-2, shaping is done around level 3-4.

Whats next… telstra shapes your internet traffic in warm weather, to reduce the heat in the wires from the friction of your data moving along them?

If there werent about a dozen other options for internet in Canberra, then you might have a cause for concern, but if you dont like your ISP, then change.. its not rocket science

Comments like this, make me realise how much people like shooting their mouth off about technical issues without having any idea about how it is really put together.

Clearly you have no idea how it is put together either. The DSLAM which in the case of older RIM installations such as the one that will provide service to the OP is installed in the street is used to separate the voice and terminate the ADSL stream. The voice is then sent to the actual RIM, which is really a voice multiplexer that then transports the voice back to the real telephone exchange in Melba.

The ADSL stream which has terminated on the DSLAM is now IP, ie layer 3. The DSLAM then connects back into the main ISP network, which in the case of RIM’s is ALWAYS Telstra wholesale, regardless of who the users ISP is. Thus it is possible that Telstra can shape if there are capacity restraints requring it.

By way of contrast newer installations use CMUX’s, so really shouldn’t be called RIM’s. The difference is the CMUX provides the functions of both the RIM and DSLAM in one box instead of two when a RIM is provided. From the CMUX the voice connects back to the main exchange and the IP data to the ISP network.

For customers not on RIM or a CMUX, your copper goes to the central exchange. In the central exchange each ISP installs their own DSLAM (some ISP’s share or use Telstra) which seperates your voice stream which is then sent to the telstra voice exchange and terminates your ADSL. Your data is then sent to your ISP’s network through their own infrastructure.

Technicaly speaking RIM’s and CMUX’s are technicaly the better solution as your copper line is almost always going to be short thus giving the highest possible ADSL speed. The problem of course this means that each and every ISP needs to install their own gear in the street or use the Telstra wholesale network, which is limited to 2mb/s per customer and is limited in capacity.

Maybe what we need to do is stop whining about Telstra and get other ISP’s to start installing their own gear in the street. Then and only then will users in RIM or CMUX area’s get a decent service without being reliant on the Telstra wholesale network.

hax said :

New suburbs in Gungahlin have FTTH (10mbps to 100mbps!) but only in non-Telstra areas. I wonder how long until (if ever) they will upgrade the older adjacent suburbs?

Move!

In Harrison here Hax – a newer suburb. And no they don’t. All of here and half of Franklin get whatever ADSL scraps are going only. And yes – like several people here we are experiencing absolutely crap bandwidth in the evenings over recent months.

New suburbs in Gungahlin have FTTH (10mbps to 100mbps!) but only in non-Telstra areas. I wonder how long until (if ever) they will upgrade the older adjacent suburbs?

Move!

dvaey said :

If there werent about a dozen other options for internet in Canberra, then you might have a cause for concern, but if you dont like your ISP, then change.. its not rocket science

Yes, of course. All of those folks affected in the Gunghalin area can change their ISP – to another ISP re-selling the exact same Telstra wholesale service, connected to the exact same RIMs, running back to the very same congested exchanges.

What a great ‘fix’ that is. Amazing. You’ve single-handedly just solved all the problems for Gunghalin residents, some who were until recently unable to even get a basic ADSL1 service. You should be the new minister for Communications once Conroy gets the boot.

Gerry-Built said :

Oh, BTW we were told that Telstra routinely shapes at the Melba exchange during times of congestion..

Comments like this, and the OP, make me realise how much people like shooting their mouth off about ISPs, while having no idea of OSI. Your telephone exchange is on layer 1-2, shaping is done around level 3-4.

Whats next… telstra shapes your internet traffic in warm weather, to reduce the heat in the wires from the friction of your data moving along them?

If there werent about a dozen other options for internet in Canberra, then you might have a cause for concern, but if you dont like your ISP, then change.. its not rocket science

wireless broadband through anyone but telstra.

solves all the angst.

All of Dunlop sits on RIMs , so regardless of who your provider is you are limited by the crappy Telstra infrastructure.

We are in the Meadows area of Dunlop, and have noticed speeds turning to crap over the last few months (particularly in the evenings). Increasingly VOIP has become unusable, and things like IView on the ABC also.

Pings to external sites are blowing right out – there have been quite a few posts about the Dunlop situation in Whirlpool.

Oh, BTW we were told that Telstra routinely shapes at the Melba exchange during times of congestion… we’ve had speeds that slow at times… though more often during peak periods it slowed to around 174kbps (though it varies in ‘slowness’). They seem to be able to keep us at 512 adequately, though yesterday and today, it has been noticeably slow…

Living in the same area – we’ve had ongoing problems with slow speed especially since Christmas time… so much so, that with TPG unable to guarantee us greater than 512kbps, we’ve dropped our plan to that speed… ridiculous! We’ve written to everyone suggested on the ACT Broadband site (see link post #1), but so far, all we have heard was John Stanhope’s office wrote to say they have written to Senator Conroy. Not holding my breath… Telstra have stuffed Gungahlin, Dunlop, West Macgregor etc… and with Telstra now considered a private company, the Federal Government has no jurisdiction over them. Telstra won’t talk to us, telling us we have to go through our ISP – and they just tell us “Congestion Issues at Melba Exchange” with no timeline to rectify, blah, blah, blah…

If we lived out in the countryside, we’d probably qualify for the Broadband Guarantee – LOL. If you can see Mt Rogers (we can’t – we face Macgregor West), you may be able to get TransACT’s wireless service, though it ain’t that fast…

I don’t see Dunlop’s (or Gungahlin’s) Internet woes getting fixed anytime soon – we seem to be very low on their priorities…

Tony said :

Actually, 5-6kb/s is dialup speed

5-6kB/s, not kb/s, is dialup speed. Bytes vs bits.

Have you tried restoring your router to ITS FACTORY SETTINGS?????!!!!! Have you bothered to call your ISP’S HELP DESK?!?!??!!!? What makes you so sure this has anything to DO WITH TELSTRA AT ALL??!??!!1

Tell me if I don’t deserve the right to be furious?!

That sentence doesn’t make any sense.

Ha! Telstra rang me yesterday, ‘informing’ me none of my services are with them. I told them not to call me again!

Actually, 5-6kb/s is dialup speed

telstra suck!

I checked, it’s running at 46kb/sec!!!!!!!!!!!!! … It’s slower than a dial-up modem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
online photography library????!!!!!
TELSTRA NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Well perhaps if you weren’t wasting quite so many bytes on superfluous punctuation you’d have more bandwidth for everything else.

More seriously, have you checked with other people around you? 46kb/s is very slow indeed and sounds more like a technical issue than one simply of congestion. What’s your modem’s sync speed? What are other people around you getting (sync and actual speeds)? Are they on different ISPs or the same as you? It’s very easy to blame Telstra for every problem (fun, too!) and they’re certainly responsible for more than their fair share. However I’d want a whole lot more information than a couple of speed tests before being quite so sure of where the fault lay.

Defintely not shaping?

Welcome to Canberra, capital city of Australia and classed as a ‘regional’ area by Telstra
School holidays starting does help your net speeds at the moment either.
http://www.actbroadband.net highlights the rats nest of RIMS Telstra has installed to save costs and force everyone to go through Telstra Wholesale.

Being a safe labour seat, dont expect anything to happen NBN-wise in this town anytime soon.

Sorry to bear such annoying news.

Steve