Goodbye thin plastic bags, hello thicker plastic bags used in exactly the same way

Someone sent me this today in an email – I thought it was relevant to the interests of this thread:

http://i.imgur.com/YARGb.jpg

Sorry if you’ve already seen it!

Bramina said :

This has to be a great example of a failed government policy – forcing consumers to pay more while increasing the undesirable behaviour (all for nothing because the behaviour isn’t harmful anyway).

I just don’t think it is possible to fail in any more ways.

Indeed.
I would consider myself an environmentalist, but this is poor policy. For example, pretty much every takeaway type shop I have visited since the ban has simply changed to thicker plastic bags.

A quick peek at the checkouts at Coles or Woolies suggests that a good percentage of people have decided to add an extra dollar or so to their shopping each week and buy the thicker plastic bags on sale (it’s been almost 2 weeks now, so you would assume that most people would be in a position to be reusing these bags instead of buying new ones.)

The heavy duty ‘green’ bags need to be reused a hell of a lot (about a year and a half of heavy usage) to actually have a positive environmental impact. Most people will end up losing/destroying them well before they have achieved a net benefit for the environment.

As has been mentioned before, the thin plastic bags were generally reused. People are now buying plastic bags to cover these uses.

This is nothing but a feel good exercise that is having the opposite effects of its intentions.

Having just carried a small shop home in a motley collection of bags, the Greens had better realise that each similar occasion simply reminds of the stupid bloody futility of this legislation.

I hope many remember this nonsense at the next election.

shadow boxer said :

Big W demand[ed] a receipt for the bag inside the bag

Bagception :/

This has to be a great example of a failed government policy – forcing consumers to pay more while increasing the undesirable behaviour (all for nothing because the behaviour isn’t harmful anyway).

I just don’t think it is possible to fail in any more ways.

arescarti42 said :

I think I probably agree with Zed on this one.

Sure, disposable plastic bags are a horrible pollution issue in developing countries, but this is not my observation in Canberra. I’m sure I’ve read before that a majority of disposable plastic bags are used as bin liners anyway, and the ones that don’t can be recycled.

+1

I had to laugh at my wife who went in to Big W with her new re-usable bags in her hand bag only to have the security staff in Big W demand a receipt for the bag inside the bag as they sold them in the shop.

It took her a while to convince them she bought them the week before.

Jenn_ said :

i’ve started using the flimsy vegetables bags (ironically still available at my local coles, and i’m assuming others?) combined with the self check out service. i buy some vegetables or fruit as usual and the rest of my shopping goes into the same bag.

hehehe, brilliant…. 🙂

… if you are only buying enough to fill one ‘flimsy vege bag’….?

Today I Received A Letter From The CBA.And It Was In A Clear Heavy Duty Plastic Envelope.Was I The Only One To Get This??And What Is With The Plastic.Please Explain!!

Before Every One Jumps On The Plastic Wagon I Did send An Email Asking Why… !! No There Has No Response To Date!! And No It Was Not A Letter Of Demand To Stop…

i’ve started using the flimsy vegetables bags (ironically still available at my local coles, and i’m assuming others?) combined with the self check out service. i buy some vegetables or fruit as usual and the rest of my shopping goes into the same bag.

shirty_bear said :

So we went and bought 5000 standard singlet bags on e-bay. All of 30 bucks, and life is good again.

5000 for $30? best i can see is 5000 for $80

Ian said :

shirty_bear said :

Been there, done that. Suspect you were doing them a favour; supermarkets must now be stuck with supplies of bags they literally can’t give away.

Although for Woolies and Coles, at least they have stores out in the real world where they can ship all the surplus bags to.

OMG WE’RE NOT IN THE REAL WORLD ANYMORE … WHERE AM I ? … is … this … the … matrix?

shirty_bear said :

Been there, done that. Suspect you were doing them a favour; supermarkets must now be stuck with supplies of bags they literally can’t give away.

Although for Woolies and Coles, at least they have stores out in the real world where they can ship all the surplus bags to.

4 days in and I have already used up the last thin shopping bags I had left and will now have to buy bags to clean the cat litter tray and as bin liners. My only consolation is that the bought bags are less likely to have holes in them. I cannot see the benefit for the environment though.

Also, biodegradable bags are not a very good environmental solution either due to the deforestation to make way for the plantations to grow the plants used to make them. It is apparently the reason why most native forests on Madagascar were slashed down in the last decade. So the environmentally conscious Europeans could have their feel-good eco-bags.

Tooks said :

screaming banshee said :

Seriously krats, did someone bet you $20 you couldn’t Capitalise Every Word For A Month On Riotact??

Every time krats does that, god kills an orphan. It’s even more annoying than caps lock.

I’m actually beginning to develop a nervous twitch. It’s a result of the way I flinch everytime I see a post by krats.

It’s akin to the reaction when you first catch a whiff of a really toxic fart.

the funny thing is, when faced with two major parties whose policies are both so objectionable or similar as to be no key point of differentiation, I have actually voted for the green candidate (purely due to a lack of better alternative – I don’t consider myself a green or leftie hippy at all. At least Bob Brown’s asylum seeking policy was somewhat humane). It would have been entirely possible that I would vote green in future ACT elections.

But now this is never going to happen. Greens go last on all ballots for this stupidity.

shadow boxer said :

The solution of choice appeared to be to take the trolley to the car, even if you only had 5 or 6 items.

I tried this yesterday. It didn’t really work as well as I thought it would. Such a PITA.

screaming banshee said :

Seriously krats, did someone bet you $20 you couldn’t Capitalise Every Word For A Month On Riotact??

Every time krats does that, god kills an orphan. It’s even more annoying than caps lock.

Ban greenies not bags!

Its called green-washing, and all scientific research on the subject says this type of legislation increases our consumption of energy and resources and adds to the problem of waste. (Previously quoted government research was also grossly innacurate).

This legislation is typical of ideological greenism. Greenies looking for a warm and fuzzy feeling by forcing their flawed narrow-minded beliefs on the rest of society and like any cult refuse to acknowledge the adverse consequences. I guess the government is also too embarrassed to admit its No Waste By 2010 strategy has failed.

There are many factors to consider, but essentially for it to be environmentally better we need to reduce overall energy and resource use, improve recycling and provide best possible outcomes for landfill.

HDPE shopping bag weighs 1.7g (banned)
Polypropelene shopping bag weighs 3.5g (legal)
Biodegradable shopping bag weighs 3.5g (legal)
Woven Polypropelene bag cheap nasty weighs 85g
Woven Polypropelene bag reasonable quality 180g
Cotton/hemp/composite bags vary

So you have to use a ‘green’ PP bag nearly 100 times before you use less resources than a HDPE lightweight bags. Plus, the PP bags breakdown especially the cheap nasty ones, could become unsanitary and are not strong enough to last 100 uses (or 30 uses for cheap nasty ones). Cotton or hemp/jute/cotton composite bags also use a lot of natural resources, so does biodegradable bags sourced from crops.

Allowing boxes to be reused might seem okay but supermarkets have a closed loop recycling process of cardboard so why reduce this 100% recycling system?
Paper bags are a renewable resource if sourced from sustainably managed forests but do require some higher energy use and water use to produce. They are not suited to a typical reuse when compared to a HDPE or PP or true bio bag.
HDPE and Poly bags photo-degrade and need a long time in direct sunlight to breakdown and when in landfill take 1000 years to break down and can contain other harmful chemicals.
Most biodegradable bags are actually HDPE bags mixed with wood fibre, so you use as much HDPE as before plus additional natural resources. The bags appear to biodegrade but you still have the same amount of plastic going into landfill. True bio bags made from starch crops might sound ideal, but it competes with food crops.

If plastic bag legislation were prepared by scientists and not by the green cult, we would have the following key factors.

Expansion of the issue to include ALL mass produced products so that all products have optimal environmental impact.
Fine tune biodegradable bags standard to exclude plastic mix bags, and ensure entire life cycle of bio bags (from starch crops) is sustainable.
Prevent use of cardboard boxes by shoppers.
No limit of bag weight or thickness for HDPE or any material
Compulsory recycling facility at shopping centres for all typical materials
No woven polypropelene bags or other green-washing products.
no bag ban, but require biobags as a alternative at no extra cost.

The current best practice for shoppers is to use a nylon bag or a good quality cotton/composite HDPE or PP bag. Or, use a truly recyclable starch based plastic bag and require retailers to pay any profits from the sale of such bags to local governments exclusively for waste management.

G-Fresh said :

Going to have to hoard rubbish now with no way to dispose of it!

You’ll have to rename yourself G-Smelly soon…

Seriously krats, did someone bet you $20 you couldn’t Capitalise Every Word For A Month On Riotact??

Going to have to hoard rubbish now with no way to dispose of it!

I also pilfered a rather large amount of plastic shopping bags from Woolies, in the self check-out area, on the last day they could still use them. I won’t need to buy bags to clean the cat litter and dog poo off the lawn for at least 6 months.

Ex Warrior said :

So I helped myself to many of the typical woolies style plastic bags when experiencing the self serve checkout the other day. Probably around 50 to 60 to leave in the vehicle for trips to the grocery mart.
As they were free is this stealing?

Been there, done that. Suspect you were doing them a favour; supermarkets must now be stuck with supplies of bags they literally can’t give away.

For us, it’s more about bin liners than checkout simplicity. So we went and bought 5000 standard singlet bags on e-bay. All of 30 bucks, and life is good again.

So I helped myself to many of the typical woolies style plastic bags when experiencing the self serve checkout the other day. Probably around 50 to 60 to leave in the vehicle for trips to the grocery mart.
As they were free is this stealing?

shadow boxer said :

Coles in Manuka was in chaos as people rushed down for Melbourne Cup supplies and didn’t have any bags.

The solution of choice appeared to be to take the trolley to the car, even if you only had 5 or 6 items.

I know it was such a pain in the ar$e. I asked the attendant what the deal was with the plastic bags and his response was a flat out “you can’t have a plastic bag”. Thank god I had one in the car otherwise it would’ve been a real dexterity test to attempt to lock up my car and scan my pass at work while juggling all my Melbourne Cup fare. Well played ACT Greens… how will you inconvenience us all next?

krats said :

alaninoz said :

+lots. The stuff that really annoys me is EPS foam. I believe that Germany has, or had, a law that required the seller of an item to take back any packaging that was sold with the item. Implement a “green” law like that and I’d be for it.

Your Not Just For Lookin At Are Ya!

Oh yes I am! Too beautiful to have it otherwise.

zippyzippy said :

Mysteryman said :

zippyzippy said :

Mysteryman said :

I’m just going to end up shopping at whichever supermarket stocks plastic bags. Supabarn is charging 5c for bags. I’ll just shop there. Screw Coles and Woolies.

And someone else said before they’d drive to Queanbeyan to ensure they’d get plastic bags. Instead of driving somewhere that’s probably more out of your way, possibly more expensive etc – wouldn’t it just be easier to use re-useable bags?

Actually it’s easier for me to go to a different supermarket than it is to have to carry bags with me for every time I choose to shop. I pass a few different supermarkets during the course of my day/week. Due to the nature of my work, I don’t always work standard hours and consequently don’t have a regular shopping time. I shop as I need to, and usually don’t plan shopping trips, because it works better for me than a planned shopping trip would.

So no, I’m not going to change my shopping habits because the Greens have passed an idiotic piece of legislation. I’d rather change the place I buy from. It’s easier and more convenient than doing things their way.

Are you in a car? You can keep bags in the car.

Most of the time I’m not.

alaninoz said :

kakosi said :

If you’re going to ban plastics you really should be looking at all that unnecessary plastic packaging on grocery items too. This really is just a stunt otherwise. Why not just legislate for biodegradable plastic bags?

This I totally agree with. The amount of plastic packaging is simply ridiculous.

+lots. The stuff that really annoys me is EPS foam. I believe that Germany has, or had, a law that required the seller of an item to take back any packaging that was sold with the item. Implement a “green” law like that and I’d be for it.

Your Not Just For Lookin At Are Ya!

kakosi said :

If you’re going to ban plastics you really should be looking at all that unnecessary plastic packaging on grocery items too. This really is just a stunt otherwise. Why not just legislate for biodegradable plastic bags?

This I totally agree with. The amount of plastic packaging is simply ridiculous.

+lots. The stuff that really annoys me is EPS foam. I believe that Germany has, or had, a law that required the seller of an item to take back any packaging that was sold with the item. Implement a “green” law like that and I’d be for it.

RoyBatty said :

Sounds like a waste of time to ban the bags then sell them??

I went to the US this year. Most shops give you a fairly robust paper bag. What’s wrong with that option? No carry handles but if your loading them from the register into a cart then out to the boot of the car it doesn’t really matter. If you need to carry the groceries use a reusable one.

K-Mart have paper bags, with paper handles.. they charge for them though, 15c

Mysteryman said :

zippyzippy said :

Mysteryman said :

I’m just going to end up shopping at whichever supermarket stocks plastic bags. Supabarn is charging 5c for bags. I’ll just shop there. Screw Coles and Woolies.

And someone else said before they’d drive to Queanbeyan to ensure they’d get plastic bags. Instead of driving somewhere that’s probably more out of your way, possibly more expensive etc – wouldn’t it just be easier to use re-useable bags?

Actually it’s easier for me to go to a different supermarket than it is to have to carry bags with me for every time I choose to shop. I pass a few different supermarkets during the course of my day/week. Due to the nature of my work, I don’t always work standard hours and consequently don’t have a regular shopping time. I shop as I need to, and usually don’t plan shopping trips, because it works better for me than a planned shopping trip would.

So no, I’m not going to change my shopping habits because the Greens have passed an idiotic piece of legislation. I’d rather change the place I buy from. It’s easier and more convenient than doing things their way.

Are you in a car? You can keep bags in the car.

kakosi said :

If you’re going to ban plastics you really should be looking at all that unnecessary plastic packaging on grocery items too. This really is just a stunt otherwise. Why not just legislate for biodegradable plastic bags?

Quick Close The Gate The Horse Is Out

Regarding the question: do Canberra people whinge much?
I think we have the answer with this thread! Let’s face it, people don’t like change – with anything.

Regardless of what stupid law we’re talking about, I mean really, for something that has been warned about for months and months, to start flailing your arms about wildly on the first day of it being used – like it was sprung on you – is pretty funny!
In this case, regarding plastic bags, I suspect anyone who has shopped at Aldi regularly won’t notice the earth-shattering ‘problem’… Sounds like another case of ‘first world problems’! Hahaha!
Let’s all take a deep breath and wait the 20 days until we’ve all got used to our new habit of taking a bag or two with us to the shops. I think then it would be a good time to see how outraged people were.

2604 said :

Jim Jones said :

Truly these are portents of the inevitable end-time of civilisation, signalling our descent into a barbaric post-plastic-bag apocalypse in which roving groups of bandits struggle with each other for control of scant resources; constructing crude bags out of burnt scraps of metal in order to carry their meager supply of groceries to and from aging Commodores, before scurrying back to the compound to curse the day that it all came crashing down.

And yet that actually sounds marginally more plausible than some of the hysterical arguments used to justify the decision to ban the supply of free plastic bags. Thank heavens the Greens have saved us all from impending environmental Armageddon.

*** DAMMIT… “THEY” WERE NOT FREE***

What surprises me most is that anyone would think a Greens policy would have any benefit: for the environment, for businesses, for consumers or for the real world in general. They’re far too important to let logic into their rampant ideology!

If you’re going to ban plastics you really should be looking at all that unnecessary plastic packaging on grocery items too. This really is just a stunt otherwise. Why not just legislate for biodegradable plastic bags?

Jim Jones said :

Thin plastic bags banned … chaos on the streets of Manuka … protestors promising to do revolting things to garbage bins … others vow to change their shopping habits (even though they know that they probably won’t because they’re too lazy to bother bringing their own bags) … parents weep as they contemplate the bleak future faced by their innocent offspring.

Truly these are portents of the inevitable end-time of civilisation, signalling our descent into a barbaric post-plastic-bag apocalypse in which roving groups of bandits struggle with each other for control of scant resources; constructing crude bags out of burnt scraps of metal in order to carry their meager supply of groceries to and from aging Commodores, before scurrying back to the compound to curse the day that it all came crashing down.

+1

Meanwhile, in the wilds of Charnwood the great bag apocalypse failed to materialize. Reports from the local shops this evening saw most people with cloth bags (more, it seemed, than before the ban), some carrying (small amounts of) shopping without a bag, and one paying the 15c fee for the Woolies heavy duty bag.

zippyzippy said :

Mysteryman said :

I’m just going to end up shopping at whichever supermarket stocks plastic bags. Supabarn is charging 5c for bags. I’ll just shop there. Screw Coles and Woolies.

And someone else said before they’d drive to Queanbeyan to ensure they’d get plastic bags. Instead of driving somewhere that’s probably more out of your way, possibly more expensive etc – wouldn’t it just be easier to use re-useable bags?

Actually it’s easier for me to go to a different supermarket than it is to have to carry bags with me for every time I choose to shop. I pass a few different supermarkets during the course of my day/week. Due to the nature of my work, I don’t always work standard hours and consequently don’t have a regular shopping time. I shop as I need to, and usually don’t plan shopping trips, because it works better for me than a planned shopping trip would.

So no, I’m not going to change my shopping habits because the Greens have passed an idiotic piece of legislation. I’d rather change the place I buy from. It’s easier and more convenient than doing things their way.

2604 said :

Jim Jones said :

Truly these are portents of the inevitable end-time of civilisation, signalling our descent into a barbaric post-plastic-bag apocalypse in which roving groups of bandits struggle with each other for control of scant resources; constructing crude bags out of burnt scraps of metal in order to carry their meager supply of groceries to and from aging Commodores, before scurrying back to the compound to curse the day that it all came crashing down.

And yet that actually sounds marginally more plausible than some of the hysterical arguments used to justify the decision to ban the supply of free plastic bags. Thank heavens the Greens have saved us all from impending environmental Armageddon.

Environment Armageddon yes, Zombie Apocalypse no. Thank Wotan some people are taking the zombie threat seriously though…

See http://www.wowt.com/home/headlinesZombie_Disaster_Drill_132848453.html for details…

krats said :

These Plastic Bags That You Refer To As “FREE”.Were Not FREE,The Cost Of Them Was Included In The Price Of Every Single Item On Every Single Shelf In The Country(And Still Is).The Only Winners In This Is Coles/Woolis And The Like Who Can Save A Bundle By Not Outlaying Any Money To Purchase Them Any More.It Is The Same As Saying The Paper Bags Maccas/Hungry Jacks And Sub Way Supply Are FREE.THEY ARE NOT FREE!!!! IE;EG Happy Meal Toys Are Not FREE.They Have A Price,It’S Included In The Price Of The Meal.I Will Not Speak Of This Again…EVER

can… We Give Krats A Mully Award? Seriously, He Is Smokin’ Some Weird Sh*t And Totally Deserves To Be AWARDED!! please? [oh, and make the award precipitated on the proviso he shares with us how he manages to capitilise every word in every sentence every time and not get so frustrated with typing tthat he gives up and goes fishing…]

Mysteryman said :

I’m just going to end up shopping at whichever supermarket stocks plastic bags. Supabarn is charging 5c for bags. I’ll just shop there. Screw Coles and Woolies.

+eleventybillion

plus 5c per bag is still much cheaper than commercially packaged bin liner products, or you can buy them in bulk here

Jim Jones said :

Truly these are portents of the inevitable end-time of civilisation, signalling our descent into a barbaric post-plastic-bag apocalypse in which roving groups of bandits struggle with each other for control of scant resources; constructing crude bags out of burnt scraps of metal in order to carry their meager supply of groceries to and from aging Commodores, before scurrying back to the compound to curse the day that it all came crashing down.

And yet that actually sounds marginally more plausible than some of the hysterical arguments used to justify the decision to ban the supply of free plastic bags. Thank heavens the Greens have saved us all from impending environmental Armageddon.

krats said :

shadow boxer said :

Coles in Manuka was in chaos as people rushed down for Melbourne Cup supplies and didn’t have any bags.

The solution of choice appeared to be to take the trolley to the car, even if you only had 5 or 6 items.

Must be time to ban shopping trolleys methinks…

Think Those Ideas-Don’t Say It Aloud,Some Bloody Greenie Will Hear It And Act On It.

Krats…. serious question here. Why Do You Type Every Word With A Capital Letter? It Is A Very Odd Habit.

Oh Thor Almighty! Say it isn’t so! I agree with Zed on this matter. I’m gonna have to go and wash my eyeballs out with soap or something after writing that.

Jim Jones said :

Truly these are portents of the inevitable end-time of civilisation, signalling our descent into a barbaric post-plastic-bag apocalypse in which roving groups of bandits struggle with each other for control of scant resources; constructing crude bags out of burnt scraps of metal in order to carry their meager supply of groceries to and from aging Commodores, before scurrying back to the compound to curse the day that it all came crashing down.

+1

Oh the humanity.

Back in the dim dark ages 40 years ago people didn’t sit around saying “gee, I wish there was some cheap and disposable solution to the weekly grind of carrying my groceries.” No. We jolly well went out and gathered some fibre, braided the fibre into twine, used the twine to start weaving a string bag, ran out of fibre and pulled the hair out of our heads, finished the bag, and then went to visit the grocer.

Ah. Simple times.

nobody said :

Shoppers addicted to free >35 micron plastic bags have nothing to fear, as my Family has commenced supplying these outside supermarkets today, with dealers outside each shopping centre.

Mr Kim manufactured our first batch in his North Korean factory last month, and one of their “fishing trawlers” met with our “charter boat” off Batemans Bay last week to transfer this illicit cargo.

I trusted the advise of my wise Consigliere and had all our illicit plastic bags branded with out Family Crest, so look out for this to ensure you only purchase our product, which is the highest quality.

My loyal Caporagimes were busy today re-supplying dealers at the busiest supermarkets as the demand was higher than expected, but we’ve had a successful and profitable first day of business.

These Plastic Bags That You Refer To As “FREE”.Were Not FREE,The Cost Of Them Was Included In The Price Of Every Single Item On Every Single Shelf In The Country(And Still Is).The Only Winners In This Is Coles/Woolis And The Like Who Can Save A Bundle By Not Outlaying Any Money To Purchase Them Any More.It Is The Same As Saying The Paper Bags Maccas/Hungry Jacks And Sub Way Supply Are FREE.THEY ARE NOT FREE!!!! IE;EG Happy Meal Toys Are Not FREE.They Have A Price,It’S Included In The Price Of The Meal.I Will Not Speak Of This Again…EVER

Shoppers addicted to free >35 micron plastic bags have nothing to fear, as my Family has commenced supplying these outside supermarkets today, with dealers outside each shopping centre.

Mr Kim manufactured our first batch in his North Korean factory last month, and one of their “fishing trawlers” met with our “charter boat” off Batemans Bay last week to transfer this illicit cargo.

I trusted the advise of my wise Consigliere and had all our illicit plastic bags branded with out Family Crest, so look out for this to ensure you only purchase our product, which is the highest quality.

My loyal Caporagimes were busy today re-supplying dealers at the busiest supermarkets as the demand was higher than expected, but we’ve had a successful and profitable first day of business.

Jim Jones said :

Thin plastic bags banned … chaos on the streets of Manuka … protestors promising to do revolting things to garbage bins … others vow to change their shopping habits (even though they know that they probably won’t because they’re too lazy to bother bringing their own bags) … parents weep as they contemplate the bleak future faced by their innocent offspring.

Truly these are portents of the inevitable end-time of civilisation, signalling our descent into a barbaric post-plastic-bag apocalypse in which roving groups of bandits struggle with each other for control of scant resources; constructing crude bags out of burnt scraps of metal in order to carry their meager supply of groceries to and from aging Commodores, before scurrying back to the compound to curse the day that it all came crashing down.

You Are Truly Gifted.I Only Wish I Had Written That…No Wait I Can…I Will Just Copy And Paste It In The Future.(Insert Evil Smirk).

Jim Jones said :

Thin plastic bags banned … chaos on the streets of Manuka … protestors promising to do revolting things to garbage bins … others vow to change their shopping habits (even though they know that they probably won’t because they’re too lazy to bother bringing their own bags) … parents weep as they contemplate the bleak future faced by their innocent offspring.

Truly these are portents of the inevitable end-time of civilisation, signalling our descent into a barbaric post-plastic-bag apocalypse in which roving groups of bandits struggle with each other for control of scant resources; constructing crude bags out of burnt scraps of metal in order to carry their meager supply of groceries to and from aging Commodores, before scurrying back to the compound to curse the day that it all came crashing down.

Turtles are slaughtered in bloody and barbarous rituals, as it was the desire to protect their useless bodies that led to the infamous ban, back in 2011. Their shells, once cleaned of any flesh, are traded inland, and used as coolamons to carry meagre supplies of champagne and brie picked up in the area once known as Manuka.

Forget plastic bags – where’s the research on how long it takes a shopping trolley to biodegrade?? They’ll be clogging storm water drains until the end of time!

Mysteryman said :

I’m just going to end up shopping at whichever supermarket stocks plastic bags. Supabarn is charging 5c for bags. I’ll just shop there. Screw Coles and Woolies.

And someone else said before they’d drive to Queanbeyan to ensure they’d get plastic bags. Instead of driving somewhere that’s probably more out of your way, possibly more expensive etc – wouldn’t it just be easier to use re-useable bags?

Thin plastic bags banned … chaos on the streets of Manuka … protestors promising to do revolting things to garbage bins … others vow to change their shopping habits (even though they know that they probably won’t because they’re too lazy to bother bringing their own bags) … parents weep as they contemplate the bleak future faced by their innocent offspring.

Truly these are portents of the inevitable end-time of civilisation, signalling our descent into a barbaric post-plastic-bag apocalypse in which roving groups of bandits struggle with each other for control of scant resources; constructing crude bags out of burnt scraps of metal in order to carry their meager supply of groceries to and from aging Commodores, before scurrying back to the compound to curse the day that it all came crashing down.

shadow boxer said :

Coles in Manuka was in chaos as people rushed down for Melbourne Cup supplies and didn’t have any bags.

The solution of choice appeared to be to take the trolley to the car, even if you only had 5 or 6 items.

Must be time to ban shopping trolleys methinks…

Think Those Ideas-Don’t Say It Aloud,Some Bloody Greenie Will Hear It And Act On It.

I’m just going to end up shopping at whichever supermarket stocks plastic bags. Supabarn is charging 5c for bags. I’ll just shop there. Screw Coles and Woolies.

Don’t be sad.

It you want bin liners you can use cornstarch bin liners. Or newspaper. Biodegradeable.

How many stores are now using slightly thicker bags? I don’t think that it’s that many. But in any case the legislation will probably be changed to cover them. No-one’s going to let some legislation go on if it’s just being circumvented.

Use the thick ‘green’ reuseable bags – keep them for a while and they are better for the environment overall than lightweight plastic bags. But there are even better alternatives to that – recycled PET bags for example. Zed’s cotton example above is misleading – there are many things to consider re the environment – resource use, energy use, water use, disposal options etc.

Here’s some good Australian research that includes a full life cycle analysis: http://www.sustainability.vic.gov.au/resources/documents/LCA_shopping_bags_full_report%5B2%5D.pdf

And the conclusion: “There is significant potential to reduce life cycle environmental impacts of plastic bag usage in the form of resource consumption, greenhouse gas, energy, water and litter. By taking reusable non-woven polypropylene ‘Green Bags’ when going shopping and refusing lightweight, single use HDPE shopping bags, the average Australia household would make a significant difference to reducing the impact of climate change and conserving our energy and water resources.

…including: 24,100 tonnes of waste avoided; Over 42,000 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions abated; 1.4 million gigajoules of energy saved; 50,000 kilolitres of water saved”

Also, it’s important to remember that the ACT ban is part of a cumulative world wide move, which has a growing impact the more jurisdictions do it.

I reckon it’s disingenous for the Liberals and anyone else saying ‘I care about the environment but this won’t work’. I think that’s nonsense, and actually you don’t care about the envrionment, and so you’re delighting in rubbishing an attempt to make a difference. That’s definitely the case with the Liberals. The opposition to the bag ban is pretty rabid on here, and I reckon it’s primarily people feeling indignant that they might have to change their lifestyle ever so slightly. You have to get over it. The plastic bags are going, and it’s a good thing.

Little_Green_Bag said :

devils_advocate said :

Definitely a terribly thought out policy.
Also, there are thicker plastic bags on sale for 10c you say? Is that right?
I mean, even on a fairly serious weekly shop, that still amounts to no more than 1 dollar.

Such idiocy. I’d sooner pay the dollar than have to buy bin liners though. but the woolies grey plastic bags were such a good size, big enough to fit over the bin but small enough to force you to chagne them regularly. *sigh*

I went to Coles at Woden today and there were no bags available at all, apart from coloured cloth ones you have to buy. Such pointless inconvenience just to give The Greens a warm inner glow.

Yea As Someone Once Said “Green On The Outside And Red In The Middle”

Coles in Manuka was in chaos as people rushed down for Melbourne Cup supplies and didn’t have any bags.

The solution of choice appeared to be to take the trolley to the car, even if you only had 5 or 6 items.

Why cant shops provide recycled paper bags like in Europe and many cities in the USA?

Give us a that ritzy-euro-feeling when we go to the shops to get a pack of Tim Tams.

devils_advocate said :

Definitely a terribly thought out policy.
Also, there are thicker plastic bags on sale for 10c you say? Is that right?
I mean, even on a fairly serious weekly shop, that still amounts to no more than 1 dollar.

Such idiocy. I’d sooner pay the dollar than have to buy bin liners though. but the woolies grey plastic bags were such a good size, big enough to fit over the bin but small enough to force you to chagne them regularly. *sigh*

I went to Coles at Woden today and there were no bags available at all, apart from coloured cloth ones you have to buy. Such pointless inconvenience just to give The Greens a warm inner glow.

Mysteryman said :

Zed is right on the money with this. It’s an idiotic piece of legislation and the Greens are morons for pushing it in the first place.

Woolies/Coles Queanbeyan Still Supply Plastic Bags,I Will Protest This Stupid Ban By Shopping There.

Definitely a terribly thought out policy.
Also, there are thicker plastic bags on sale for 10c you say? Is that right?
I mean, even on a fairly serious weekly shop, that still amounts to no more than 1 dollar.

Such idiocy. I’d sooner pay the dollar than have to buy bin liners though. but the woolies grey plastic bags were such a good size, big enough to fit over the bin but small enough to force you to chagne them regularly. *sigh*

the only reason petroleum is used in plastic bags is because it is, relatively speaking, still stupidly cheap, that is to say not scarce at all.

El_Mariachi said :

Wowsers! What a diatribe of bumpkin-ism. The purpose of the legislation is clearly to replace petroleum based plastic bags with bio-degradable plastic bags. It may not happen immediately but it’s a useful step on a long road of resource conservation. The bags retailers are selling most likely are bio-degradable. When you get handed a bio-degradable plastic bag by a retailer you can still use it for your bin liner. Get a grip people!

So now that all the petroleum that was used to make these bags is no longer required, does that mean that the price of a litre of petrol will come down?

Hello?

Bueller……….?

I-filed said :

How is using expensive, thick bin liners going to be better for the environment than the flimsy ones?

I recall that the companies who manufacture both bin liners and the disposable version initially came out against the ban – then quickly recanted when they realised they would make a motza out of expensive bin liners once the ban kicked in.

My civil unrest for one, once my stash of free plastic bags has been used up, will be to shove all my garbage, including organics, into my garbage bin unwrapped. I am not going to buy bin liners!

I’m glad I’m not your neighbour, that could get pretty feral. How about composting your organic waste?

Yet more evidence that all this greenie BS is a moneymaking scam.

The Greens generate more rubbish than plastic bags. Good on Zed for making sense, where sense is not all that common (ACT politics).

I-filed said :

My civil unrest for one, once my stash of free plastic bags has been used up, will be to shove all my garbage, including organics, into my garbage bin unwrapped. I am not going to buy bin liners!

OCCUPY THE GARBAGE BIN!!!

We are the 99%

How is using expensive, thick bin liners going to be better for the environment than the flimsy ones?

I recall that the companies who manufacture both bin liners and the disposable version initially came out against the ban – then quickly recanted when they realised they would make a motza out of expensive bin liners once the ban kicked in.

My civil unrest for one, once my stash of free plastic bags has been used up, will be to shove all my garbage, including organics, into my garbage bin unwrapped. I am not going to buy bin liners!

Wowsers! What a diatribe of bumpkin-ism. The purpose of the legislation is clearly to replace petroleum based plastic bags with bio-degradable plastic bags. It may not happen immediately but it’s a useful step on a long road of resource conservation. The bags retailers are selling most likely are bio-degradable. When you get handed a bio-degradable plastic bag by a retailer you can still use it for your bin liner. Get a grip people!

cross said :

RoyBatty said :

Sounds like a waste of time to ban the bags then sell them??

I went to the US this year. Most shops give you a fairly robust paper bag. What’s wrong with that option? No carry handles but if your loading them from the register into a cart then out to the boot of the car it doesn’t really matter. If you need to carry the groceries use a reusable one.

Hmmm cutting trees down for paper bags instead of using a petroleum byproduct ie plastic doesn’t sound to environmentally friendly and probably the worst option. I wonder what they will do that byproduct if plastic is banned ,pump it out to sea or bury it ? Wait ! they could sell to the Chinese to make Iphone’s .

Except that trees are a controllable, renewable resource, and paper bags are easily recycled and made from recyclable material.

RoyBatty said :

Sounds like a waste of time to ban the bags then sell them??

I went to the US this year. Most shops give you a fairly robust paper bag. What’s wrong with that option? No carry handles but if your loading them from the register into a cart then out to the boot of the car it doesn’t really matter. If you need to carry the groceries use a reusable one.

Hmmm cutting trees down for paper bags instead of using a petroleum byproduct ie plastic doesn’t sound to environmentally friendly and probably the worst option. I wonder what they will do that byproduct if plastic is banned ,pump it out to sea or bury it ? Wait ! they could sell to the Chinese to make Iphone’s .

Zed is right on the money with this. It’s an idiotic piece of legislation and the Greens are morons for pushing it in the first place.

The only offence currently established by the odious PLASTIC SHOPPING BAGS BAN ACT 2010 is section 7 which provides
“A retailer commits an offence if—

(a) the retailer supplies a plastic shopping bag to a customer of the retailer; and

(b) the plastic shopping bag is supplied for the customer to carry goods bought, or to be bought, from the retailer. “

There is absolutely no prohibition (and nor should there be) against a customer bringing his own plastic bag to the shop and putting his or her purchases into the plastic bag and taking the bag home. I incite all Canberra shoppers to do this as a protest against extremist Greens legislation.

Ive been hoarding them for months leading up to this day. Bin liners for months to come.

Can I take my old ones to the shop to re-use? Will I get fined?

Ill probably just buy them on the go anyway If im ducking into coles for 3-4 things which i do frequently.

Thanks, Caroline. These heavy duty bags you get now last for yonks!

Sounds like a waste of time to ban the bags then sell them??

I went to the US this year. Most shops give you a fairly robust paper bag. What’s wrong with that option? No carry handles but if your loading them from the register into a cart then out to the boot of the car it doesn’t really matter. If you need to carry the groceries use a reusable one.

Wouldn’t it be much easier to simply mandate that plastic bags are biodegradable, and degrade in a specified period of time under most conditions? That we, we can have our bags, have our free bin liners, and when they eventually get to landfill (or anywhere else, like the ocean), they break down to almost nothing anyway.

Feel good politics is all.

I believe this is one of those policies that are referred to as…

HALF-ARSED ATTEMPT TO ACHIEVE NOTHING

Bravo…

I think I probably agree with Zed on this one.

Sure, disposable plastic bags are a horrible pollution issue in developing countries, but this is not my observation in Canberra. I’m sure I’ve read before that a majority of disposable plastic bags are used as bin liners anyway, and the ones that don’t can be recycled.