Cheaper Bus fares! Would that be a plus?

Tempestas said :

Well said Al.

Canberra due to its “built around the car suburban layout” needs a unique solution. Some hi-tech rechargable driverless thingy that constantly circles a suburb, which connects with high frequency – every 5 mins or so – feeder bus or simliar along all the main inter suburban roads which then link into a Adelaide style busway on the main/arterial roads. Take 1+ lanes off the roads and make them bus only, on all three lane roads make only 1 lane for vehicles with 1 occupant, the other a T2. Once people face a choice of slower than a bus single occupant car – they will either car pool or use public transport.

With all the high-tech speed camera’s no reason not to make a slower speed limit for single occupant cars. Make smart cars or anything less than 999cc exempt from needing 2 people to use a T2.

That would radically change Canberra’s traffic.

Bollocks! I have a business to run, so you are suggesting that someone taking granny shopping gets priority over me in my van (a single occupant) trying to get from A to B to make a living? There would have to be so many exceptions to this rule that it would become farcical.

Actually Morgan it would cot me more to get a monthly pass then it does to get a 10 ride beacuse i need to drive at least one day aweek beacuse i have to stay back till around 2 in the morning at least one night a week.

Just wonder – how many posters actually used bus, because if you’re not lazy enough to get to nearest news agency on the way for you ritual morning coffee you’ll be able to buy 10-trip ticket for $22, that’s $2.20 one way, even less with other tickets.

I actually catch the bus and i don’t drink coffee. Also it is a little difficult to go past a newsagency when you catch a bus.

Dain the purpose of the long routes is to best use the bus without it sitting around at interchanges idle etc. There are some exceptions but in most cases they are not designed for people to sit on them end to end, hence why they all go through an interchange at some point.

If you go back 10-15 years ago when 90% of the routes were interchange to suburbia you would have a bus sitting for about 15 minutes between routes. With the current system some of the buses come from suburbia then continue through, cutting the idle time. It also has the advantage you don’t need bus layover bays or complex interchanges. Just look at the new interchange planned for Belco, it isn’t much more than a few stops outside Westfield.

The 3 (ex 34) is an oddity though as it is designed as a hospital link and also hence why it was a 100% low floor route. Weather it is needed west of civic anymore is debatable as all the intertown buses stop at Calvary anyway, something which in the past they didn’t do.

Gungahlin Al said :

Would a 333 service only be half as much hell as a 666 service?

no, it would take double the time to travel, creating a 666 service after all.

Would a 333 service only be half as much hell as a 666 service?

why don’t they just bring back the 333 service?

makes more sense…

Let’s take a “new renamed” route 3 – Woden – Belconnen via Garran, Hughes, Deakin, Forrest and so on. If I want get from Garran to Belconnen it’ll take me almost an hour. But if I want get Belco twice faster I’ll catch bus going Woden and then Intertown to Belconnen. So where’s point running such long route at all ? Just run the same or smaller bus around Garran, Hughes, Deakin which will deliver people from suburbs to nearest Interchange fast and Bingo! problem almost solved.

Just wonder – how many posters actually used bus, because if you’re not lazy enough to get to nearest news agency on the way for you ritual morning coffee you’ll be able to buy 10-trip ticket for $22, that’s $2.20 one way, even less with other tickets.

Honestly, the only problem with current bus system is “one a hour” bus around outer suburbs, Intertown route 3XX connects Tugger with Belco via City and goes every 10 minutes or so. But most intersuburb routes usually carry one to five passengers and obviously there’s not much sence to put more buses on such routes. So it’s not a rocket science to run instead one big Man once an hour four shuttle buses which will go in circles let’s say every 15 minutes around two or three suburbs and interchange in peak hour and every half hour other time.

blueberry said :

are you in Queanbeyan? Because I can’t see how someone spends $6 a day to catch the bus on ACTION

Um at around $3 each way? Yup that adds up to $6.

The parking near my work is 3.60 for the whole day or 3.00 if you get in early and get a spot in the cheep car park.

Yes but if you are catching the bus every day you are buying prepaid tickets and getting a discount $80/month is $4 a day isn’t it?

oops (double post)

though I suggested cutting down the trees and building a multi storey carpark on the lyneham ovals….

Monorail that starts from Northbourne Avenue at Wakefield Avenue, down to Limestone, down Anzac Parade, left onto Parkes way, across the lake on Kings Avenue up to Capital Hill, cut back down Commonwealth Avenue, round City Hill and back to the start.

I am sure that this was mentioned before….

For our light rail fans replace the arterial busway with trams.

Well said Al.

Canberra due to its “built around the car suburban layout” needs a unique solution. Some hi-tech rechargable driverless thingy that constantly circles a suburb, which connects with high frequency – every 5 mins or so – feeder bus or simliar along all the main inter suburban roads which then link into a Adelaide style busway on the main/arterial roads. Take 1+ lanes off the roads and make them bus only, on all three lane roads make only 1 lane for vehicles with 1 occupant, the other a T2. Once people face a choice of slower than a bus single occupant car – they will either car pool or use public transport.

With all the high-tech speed camera’s no reason not to make a slower speed limit for single occupant cars. Make smart cars or anything less than 999cc exempt from needing 2 people to use a T2.

That would radically change Canberra’s traffic.

Those who discuss the cost of public service operation in isolation just don’t get it.
Governments should not be scared of the cost of running a bus service (or light rail). They should look at the entire equation.
How much does it save them in roadworks deferred or forgone altogether?
How much more do they get in rates along a dedicated public transport route?
In ACT, how much more would they get in land sale prices if there was a guaranteed service?
How much do you save in health costs?
How much greenhouse emissions are avoided?
How much air pollution is avoided (admittedly not much of an issue in ACT)?
How much long-term landfill cost is avoided when families only require one car?
etc etc
Some of this is small but it adds up. Some of it is huge. Think of how much interest the loan to upgrade the Majura Road will cost. $150M at say 5% = $7.5M pa.

Hey Roland, how about a chairlift network? Rather than hauling people up mountains we could deploy them laterally along major trunk routes. Then all people need to do is hop on and hop off. With the ever decreasing snow season we can probably pick up a few from the snowies at a bargain price.
You know it makes sense.

Surely it is about seamless rapid transit.

The biggest issue is always going to be convenience. For many people it needs to be to and from their front door. On top of park and ride (plus cycle and ride.. if that makes sense) we need to link a comprehensive taxi service (if only we had one!) into a fast transport mainframe. Other transport solutions, such as pooled vehicles in multi unit developments, would be part of the solution.

PS: and ACTION needs more drivers before it can add to the services it is providing.

How about the govt dropping the fuel excise as they did in qld?

they would save money for ACTION buses as well, diesel is not cheap….

AG Canberra said :

Set up the rego system that is more user pays – the more kays you do the more you pay. A further incentive to take public transport.

AG, thats not going to work. Not all KM’s travelled neatly parallel public transport availability

Free buses for 6 months – our rates and taxes already subsidise ACTION to the tune of a million bucks a week. Make it free – we all know the lure of something for nothing.

AND

Set up decent park and ride options. Perth did it 15 years ago – set up excellent public transport hubs with frequent busses and trains. Reduced the congestion in the city dramatically. Mitchell would be an excellent place to start.

AND

Set up the rego system that is more user pays – the more kays you do the more you pay. A further incentive to take public transport.

I ran some figures for fuel prices rising from $1.65 to $2/L. At $1.65/L it’s $3.19 for me each way in the car. At $2.00/L it’s a little under $4 each way. Unless the network gets a whole lot better (which for me means much less overcrowding) I’ll spend the extra few dollars a day for the privilege of coming and going as I please, choosing the radio station and being able to run errands.

are you in Queanbeyan? Because I can’t see how someone spends $6 a day to catch the bus on ACTION

Um at around $3 each way? Yup that adds up to $6.

The parking near my work is 3.60 for the whole day or 3.00 if you get in early and get a spot in the cheep car park.

Morgan said :

Are you in Queanbeyan? Because I can’t see how someone spends $6 a day to catch the bus on ACTION

ahh, $3 per ride?

blood_nut said :

I second that Blueberry.

It cost my partner and I $12 to wait in the cold for 10 minutes before standing up in a crowded bus with (often smelly) strangers on the way to and from work.

Alternatively it costs $5 to drive in and pay for parking.

If it was sigificantly cheaper I’d use the bus.

Are you in Queanbeyan? Because I can’t see how someone spends $6 a day to catch the bus on ACTION

Many years ago – 1995 from memory – ACTION bus drivers as part of a wider ACT Public Service enterprise bargaining campaign refused to collect fares. This lasted several weeks. When all the dust settled and it came time to calculate the cost of all the missed fares, it was discovered that it only added 12% to the cost of running ACTION in that period while passenger boarding numbers went through the roof. The adminsitrative cost of handling fares takes a big chunk out of the fare itself – such that the marginal benefit is very marginal indeed.
With an organisation that runs on a huge subisdy anyway, the marginal cost of scrapping fares wouldn’t be that great – and usage would grow substantially.
As an aside I also remember that as part of the wider campaign the Chief Ministers Department payroll section stopped processing Ministers’ pay…those were the days when industrial action was fun

I second that Blueberry.

It cost my partner and I $12 to wait in the cold for 10 minutes before standing up in a crowded bus with (often smelly) strangers on the way to and from work.

Alternatively it costs $5 to drive in and pay for parking.

If it was sigificantly cheaper I’d use the bus.

I don’t know if it would work for everyone, but i would love it!. I catch the bus most days but it is hard to be dedicated when it actually costs half as much to park near my work then it does to catch the bus to and from work, Plus my going home bus is usually so full there is as many people standing as there are sitting, which is not the most enjoyable experiance after a long day at work.

I Recentle went to brisbane to visit family and was really amazed at how great their public transport is. For the same amount as a one way bus ticket in canberra you can get an all day pass for the bus,train and city cat for the whole city and even though the busses are some times a little late beacuse of traffic problems it generaly dosen’t take very long to get where you are going.

How about park & ride? Drive to your nearest major bus station (Belco, Gunners,City,Woden,Tuggers etc)have busses running every 15 minutes at peak times express between them. Then, you may have a system that goes some way towards being a viable option?

The biggest gripe is usually not the cost, or the frequency of the busses, but how long it takes to get anywhere! I suspect the majority of RA reders are public servents? Contrary to common belief most of you guys and many others work long hours, an extra hour or more out of your day is just not an option no matter what ther savings. Even if it was free!

I’m pretty sure ‘eleventy billion’ is just another way of saying ‘metric f…load’.

Your kidding aren’t you? Action are struggling to cope with the extra passenger numbers at peak times as it is.

$11 Billion, bloody hell that is a lot, sure you don’t mean $11 million? As for it being a loss I wouldn’t look at it that way, I would look at it as an $11 million investment in public transport. It needs to be so much more.

There is no way ACTION will ever turn a profit, I doubt any public transport system in a city as sparsley populated as Canberra ever could. As for the routes, provided we as a community were willing to spend the extra then we could have services that don’t go ‘via Melbourne’ as it was so put. But sadly the spread out layout of Canberra means that is the only one it can be done, without a dedicated route serving each and every suburb. Although thiking about it doing that you would have people complain about having to change buses….. In a city like Canberra transport can just never win.

Scheduling and route-planning are complicated problems. I suspect that with Canberra’s layout it’d be a matter of fast, cheap, convenient – choose two. Maybe we should have a comp on The RiotACT – design a new network, best one wins…something.

No, the prices are pretty good as they are. What they need to do is introduce more routes so that the service is actually convenient, and so that I don’t have to be crammed on to packed-full busses the entire way to work.

They could trial a free week of travel to get a feel for ‘real’ demand (eg if almost everyone suddenly had to travel by bus due to petrol prices) followed by a proper feedback opportunity (so feedback is obtained from those who usually don’t use buses as well as those who do).

I’d like to see local pollies on the buses regularly too. They should not complain about the cost/deficit if they have no experience of how the bus network actually works.

Exactly.

And perhaps instead of spending thousands of dollars on prime time TV commercials saying how wonderful the service is, they could introduce more routes and employ more drivers.

ACTION is already running at a 11ty billion dollar loss so reducing fares isn’t going to help the bottom line. I don’t think a fare reduction would encourage many people onto buses though, sure it would encourage a few scrooges (it is already cheaper than driving your car to the City and paying parking) but the thing that would encourage the most people would be sensible and timely bus routes. Ones that don’t go via Melbourne and take two or more hours and multiple buses for what is a twenty minute car trip.