Cycling: What Will Politicians Do?

Hi Kramer – definitely improved and COMPLETE cycle lanes around Canberra, particularly on Belconnen Way & Ginnenderra Drive. Better, smoother surfaces on the lanes would be a bonus. If we could have better cycle lanes, we can get off the road that seems to be impossible for some motorists to share!

Kramer said :

So…. back to the topic of next week’s discussion: What would everyone like to see happen in Canberra with cycling???

My (particularly mountain bike biased) thoughts are:
More mountain bike trails, around Canberra, including within Canberra Nature Parks.
Create more cycle lanes throughout Canberra.
Create offroad trails for mountain bike commuting – dirtmute
Fix the cycle lane on Belconnen Way (particularly city bound, between Eastern Valley Way & Hayden drive).
Build a dirt jump park (it will cost virtually nothing and stop kids digging up reserves, and Canberra Nature Parks).
Build technical mountain bike trails, also known as Northshore trails (the govt wouldn’t actually need to build them, so much as approve the construction of them, and get over the possible personal injury issues).

there is a bmx park for the vikings club in tuggers, near the ambulance / fire brigade station on sulwood / ?? drive

kids get their safety kit on and belt around the course all the time.

Cheers for that Woody.

No worries – I had no idea how it would break down either until I looked (or that income from fines > registrations). However, the figures I gave are wrong!

The $26m is duty on registration and transfers. Revenue from registrations themselves is around $70m. So, put together rego, duty, fines etc and you’re getting much closer to the maintenance budget. No idea about the costs of building roads in the first place, though – can look around ore if people are interested.

As for federal grants – hard to say because there are so many Commonwealth government programs relating to roads. Historically, federal funding has made up around 20% of total roads expenditure, with State / Territory governments covering a further 40%. The balance is local government expenditure and money from the private sector. There’s very little discussion of roads in the part of the budget discussions intergovernmental finances.

So…. back to the topic of next week’s discussion: What would everyone like to see happen in Canberra with cycling???

My (particularly mountain bike biased) thoughts are:
More mountain bike trails, around Canberra, including within Canberra Nature Parks.
Create more cycle lanes throughout Canberra.
Create offroad trails for mountain bike commuting – dirtmute
Fix the cycle lane on Belconnen Way (particularly city bound, between Eastern Valley Way & Hayden drive).
Build a dirt jump park (it will cost virtually nothing and stop kids digging up reserves, and Canberra Nature Parks).
Build technical mountain bike trails, also known as Northshore trails (the govt wouldn’t actually need to build them, so much as approve the construction of them, and get over the possible personal injury issues).

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

don’t have the time to go digging around for statistics

Ooh, pick me.

From this year’s budget papers:

Expenditure on roads maintenance: $113.422m
Revenue from motor vehicle registrations and transfers: $26.359m

You could throw in traffic fines ($20m) and parking fines ($7m) and still not get close to the roads maintenance budget, let alone other roads infrastructure spending.

(Cue outrage about revenue raising speed cameras and b.stard parking inspectors in 3…2…)

for once, I am not going to bite. All I want is motorists, motorbike riders and cyclists to know first aid. as i drove home last night, mind in neutral at 11.45pm, after a particularly good sim challenge, I really haven’t had such a good laugh, thanks to granny, sleaze274 & skid, oh and mark parton – man is very funny, ahem. I found that there was a kangaroo on the parkway, not obeying the speed limit and in the right hand lane. I missed it, the guy behind me was a bit p1ssed about me cutting him off, till the roo jumped into the left hand lane.

I had to pull over, walk back to the crushed front end of the car behind me, and check that the guy was ok. (the roo, seemingly unscathed, had bounded away) he was pretty shaken up, but he assured me he was OK.

he decided to drive the car to Calvary ED, and get checked out. the roo had direct centre of the front of the car, and, after checking the radiator wasn’t stuffed, he got in, and drove towards calvary. I followed him to the ED, so that, if required, I could provide additional information.

about 2 km from calvary, he pulled into the carpark off the gde, near black mountain.
I took him to the ed, explained what i had witnessed, and left him there.

the reason i would like everyone to know first aid, is if I had not followed him towards the ED, and he had pulled over in shock, who would have found him?

don’t know what was wrong with him, hope he was ok.

as we all are sharing the roads, for whatever reason, we need to be able to help out when there is an accident. my fundamental dislike for cyclists on the roads stems from having to deal with accidents involving cyclists vs cars, buses and trucks. none of them are very pretty.

So much love in this thread.

I just think, that with everyone ranting about cyclists using the road (Which I do not) that perhaps there is little to no inspiration to use the alternatives due to their poor condition (in places, like Lyneham to Turner)

Apart from the crappy conditions, us canberrans are blessed with the best off road cycleways in Australia. I mean I can ride from Ngunnawal to Duffy and only have to cross about half a dozen major roads. How good is that….

Hopefully P/P can initiate/gather some kind of momentum in the direction of making the cyclepathes safer/more comfortable and get more people off major roads.

Here endeth my argument.

Jakez, peace….

Cheers for that Woody. I never said that registrations and transfers cover expenditure, I was just curious about the breakdown and what changes can be made. Do you know if the budget lists in the same place the amount in Federal Road grants?

Getting back to what originally brought me to this topic, does anyone from Pedal Power/ any non-participating candidates have anything to say about who Pedal Power did and did not invite to this event?

don’t have the time to go digging around for statistics

Ooh, pick me.

From this year’s budget papers:

Expenditure on roads maintenance: $113.422m
Revenue from motor vehicle registrations and transfers: $26.359m

You could throw in traffic fines ($20m) and parking fines ($7m) and still not get close to the roads maintenance budget, let alone other roads infrastructure spending.

(Cue outrage about revenue raising speed cameras and b.stard parking inspectors in 3…2…)

That’s cool mate if you don’t have the info. I agree that roads are not covered solely by licensing and registration, I’m just curious about the breakdown now. I’ll go have a look some time and see if I can figure out the breakdown (have to consider Federal Grants as well which muddies things)

(Should read) is NOT covered solely by licensing and registration

mate, I dont work at the RTA, or have the time to go digging around for statistics to sate your apetite for the truth.

Common sence should prevail in assuming that of all the road projects and maintenence undertaken in Australia is covered solely by licencing and registration.

If you are so dead keen to see figures, why dont you root around and find some contary to my point – that way it woul dbe indesputable.

I think though that roads and road associated infrastructure is not soley paid for by registration and insurance

**hugs**

Oh and my collectivist point was made to both cyclists and drivers. It was not directed at you nor was it in response to your comments. I think this is probably a case of the original problem of identity confusion.

You never called me a dullard, you called the other guy a dullard. I’m not the original person. I think I realise what has happened, you thought that I was the original guy responding to you calling me a dullard. I’m not, I just wanted to pick your brain and have a discussion on the matter. Like I said, I’m not trying to trick you or pick a fight with you. You are still reacting as if that is what I am doing. I am ignorant of this matter and you don’t appear to be.

Do you have a source for your claim that the majority of our road maintenence expenditure comes from general revenue?

Jakez, if I wanted to call you a driving jerk, I would not beat around the bush, as I called you a dullard straight up.

I ride my bicycle in excess of 100km a week, on OFF ROAD CYCLE WAYS.

The only interaction I Have with vehicles is when I dismount to cross zebra crossings, and ride across pedestrian crossings at traffic lights.

The point I made was that on several occasions this week I have been nearly hit, cut off or totally ignored whilst dismounting from my bicycle to waks as a pedestrian across zebra crossings.

If this insinuated you, then, as sorry as I am for it insinuating you, it still leads me to believe you are feeling guilty for whatever reason. I dont know you or how you work. If you feel that it was persoanlly directed atyou, then I sincerely apoligise and my offer of a bear hug and soothing pat remains.

In any case, my initial intention was to stipulate that that the condition of the cycleways is quite poor in places, I pay tax, and registration, and have a licence to (Believe it or not) drive a vehicle.

Why then are these cyclesways not being repaired. When you ride from Ngunnawal to Civic, you can see why people chose the roadside cycleways, because the dedicated cycle pathes are sheeit.

What is the purpose of the fee?

Registration fees provide essential funding for the development and maintenance of state road networks. Vehicle registration in Canberra also includes Compulsory Third Party insurance, which provides indemnity against personal injury claims in crashes.

I never said it did not, I said that the majority of our road maintenence expenditure comes from taxes – not registration and licencing fees.

Are you happy now sweetie pie, I answered your question.

@SkipDaRoo: I knew it wouldn’t take much time for another mindless ignorant to bring up the whole licensing and registration spatter. You must have been that looser who yelled out their window at me yesterday to “get on the footpath” when there was none there, and the Government body has been genius enough to have only half bike lane down a major road.

Yes, I own a car, which doesn’t get driven when I cycle, and I think everyone else I know who cycles, is in the same boat. Perhaps we should call it square with all the “carbon-offset” that people are always spouting off about. Wake up to yourself!

I think more effort should be put in to edumacating ignorant drivers on what the ACTUAL rights and rules are for cyclists. And honking your horn for no reason while hooning past doing 80k’s at close proximity is just f**king dangerous. The problem is, whether right or wrong, if a cyclist ends up under a car, there really is no longer a point to argue.

Yes, there are some dodgy cyclists, but no where near as many ignorant c**ks as there are motorists. I get surprised at least once a week of the abuse I cop, simply for SHARING the road.

P.S. Sometimes it is actually safer for a cyclist to dodge a red light, depending on the traffic conditions and the intersection.

@Bundy: yeah, that’s bulls**t mate, but don’t lump us all in with that idiot. There are other pedestrians on cycle paths who need to grow a brain, but it’s terrible that someone would abuse your son. So please don’t run me off the road in your car, I already have at least 3 people a week giving it their best shot.

There is a difference between a retort and a response. I understand you flying off the wall because this is not in real time and so prefacing questions doesn’t work as well. People tend to make assumptions. You put me in the ‘driving jerk’ bag and you know you did. Be honest about it.

I hope I have made myself clear so that you can answer my question.

Danman said :

@ Jakez – You would be a fool if you thought roads were solely funded by licence and registration fees, which I may add, are payments that entitle the bearer to a) use the public roads and b)Use their registered and roadworthy vehicle on such roads.

The license and registration entitle us to do those things. They could do that without a fee so that isn’t the purpose of the fee. What is the purpose of the fee?

I know you have a hard on for aggressive typing right now but don’t assume that I’m trying to have a go at you, trick you, or pick a fight.

Whatever – seems your getting all defensive when I was merely retorting – I can not control your emotions at the time of you reading my post.

If you were here I would give you a big bear hug and say “there there” whilst soothing you gently.

As your not, my apoligies for retorting to something I wanted to discuss, ill remmeber to not engage in debate with you in the future lest i offend you.

For the record, this entire thread stinks of collectivism. Those people riding bikes and those people driving cars are individuals. Before you go gassing the jews perhaps you could all realise that one dickhead driver doesn’t mean all drivers are dickheads, and one dickhead cyclist doesn’t mean all cyclists are dickheads.

Danman said :

@ Jakez – You would be a fool if you thought roads were solely funded by licence and registration fees, which I may add, are payments that entitle the bearer to a) use the public roads and b)Use their registered and roadworthy vehicle on such roads.

Dare I say that licence and registration merely subsidises other government payments for such projects.

And while Im here, can I just add that this week, on at least 3 occasions I have been cut off or ignored totally when dismounting my bike to walk across zebra crossings.

Surely its not all cyclists that are retarded – some drivers are too.

I was just asking a question Danman, I know you have a hard on for aggressive typing right now but don’t assume that I’m trying to have a go at you, trick you, or pick a fight.

I didn’t think that roads were covered solely by registration fees because I know that the Government doesn’t work in such a smart manner. That doesn’t mean that we don’t have specific revenue pools and that doesn’t mean that we can’t find a better way to limit payment to those that use an item (positive externalities in my mind being overemphasised).

Perhaps your dullard was merely making a similar point but in a more aggressive nature. That however is no reason to abuse me. I know this is RiotACT but it is okay sometimes to have a civil conversation.

The world’s full of idiots.
That’s why we need laws.

(To send them all to death camps.)
Oops, did I say that out loud?

Its called taxes, you dullard.

Gold.

@ Jakez – You would be a fool if you thought roads were solely funded by licence and registration fees, which I may add, are payments that entitle the bearer to a) use the public roads and b)Use their registered and roadworthy vehicle on such roads.

Dare I say that licence and registration merely subsidises other government payments for such projects.

And while Im here, can I just add that this week, on at least 3 occasions I have been cut off or ignored totally when dismounting my bike to walk across zebra crossings.

Surely its not all cyclists that are retarded – some drivers are too.

Bundybear said :

That is until the other day when my son was driving his electric wheelchair into the city, and while travelling along the “bike path” was soundly abused for having the temerity to be on the “bike path”, and told to use the ROAD!!!

That’s not cool, but that cyclist would be an exception, not many people with an IQ of more than a slug and a skerrick of common sense would expect someone in a wheelchair to use the road.

I haven’t really had a huge issue with cyclists, although I have certainly been confronted by members of the “I’ll make my own rules” brigade, and one or two from the “I have a death wish” consortium.

That is until the other day when my son was driving his electric wheelchair into the city, and while travelling along the “bike path” was soundly abused for having the temerity to be on the “bike path”, and told to use the ROAD!!!

Based on that reasoning, cyclists better stick to the bike paths, don’t let me catch you on my roads(when I’m in my car) or footpath (when I’m out walking). F***tards!!!!!!

Danman said :

You mean what will the cyclists get for nothing seeing as they do not pay for licenses and registration

Its called taxes, you dullard.

Here is my little lesson in economics for you

You spend money – you pay taxes.

Taxes go to the government to fund civil projects, government health and education among other things.

Dullard

Danman, what is the purpose of license and registration fees (mainly registration)?

You mean just like P-platers?

Ask any motorcyclist what they think about “damn car drivers” 🙂

My problem is, I ride a pushbike, a motorbike and drive a car (though rarely all at the same time) – I keep forgetting who I’m supposed to hate and hurl random abuse at.

You mean what will the cyclists get for nothing seeing as they do not pay for licenses and registration (yes yes I know some of you have both already, but not all)

I’d say most, actually. Everyone I know who rides also has a car (and a licence). The government is welcome to spend the money I pay to register a second vehicle on bycicle paths, since I only need one vehicle’s worth of road on any given day 😉

You mean what will the cyclists get for nothing seeing as they do not pay for licenses and registration

Its called taxes, you dullard.

Here is my little lesson in economics for you

You spend money – you pay taxes.

Taxes go to the government to fund civil projects, government health and education among other things.

Dullard

@Jonathon Reynolds:

“are a highly EXCLUSIVE non INCLUSIVE community group with a large number of ALP members on their committee”

Just like ACTLightrail when they where writing ACT Liberal light rail policy for Vicki Dunne. Proof: Well you have to become a member of ACTlightrail and read their archives, which the general public cannot access freely.

And did you not seek pre-selection for them?

Pot-kettle-black

I welcome sensible cycleways for those 5km commutes. If more people used bikes there would be less need for trams trundling around Civic.

shiny flu said :

You see hoons and everyday motorists break road rules and drive dangerously, do you pool them in one large group or are they just a few ‘bad’ drivers.

You mean just like P-platers?

You see hoons and everyday motorists break road rules and drive dangerously, do you pool them in one large group or are they just a few ‘bad’ drivers.

It’s the same with bicycle riders (*they are not cyclists*), except those on recumbents – or even worse recumbent trikes that clearly are too wide for a cycle lane and bike path – do what you want with them!

jakez said :

Speakers will include representatives from ACT Labor, the Canberra Liberals and the ACT Greens.
By this do you mean that they will be the only parties represented?

It took me until the second time in 2004 that I ran for the Assembly to work out that Pedal power are a highly EXCLUSIVE non INCLUSIVE community group with a large number of ALP members on their committees. They leverage this influence to “achieve their desired outcomes” by pushing hard within the ALP (note: they never got much out of any Liberal Government)

At the last election in 2004 they deliberately excluded a number of the minor parties from their “meet the candidates event” – several of the minor parties actually put out a joint media release on the issue (I have a scan of the original signed media release kicking around somewhere if anyone wants to see it:
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/43532/20041016-0000/www.equalityparty.org/newsroom/2004.htm#140904

If you can’t pilot a car safely through the current width Northbourne lanes, you probably shouldn’t be driving at all.

I do occaisionally see a cyclist run a red light, but not a day goes by that I don’t see a car do so, so I’ve never really been sure where this argument comes from.

(Is it time for the quarterly cars-versus-cyclists flamewar again? My how time flies.)

a letter in teh pape today suggested removing the cycle lane from Northbourne Ave, and instead running it up the centre of the nature strip between the trees. It sounds like a great idea – cars get wider lanes again, and bikes get a gorgeous path – safer too.

I’m just not sure what happens at the intersections.

You mean what will the cyclists get for nothing seeing as they do not pay for licenses and registration (yes yes I know some of you have both already, but not all)

And I’d like to see the cyclists vow to all follow the road rules, not run red lights etc.

Then maybe I will care what they get.

Speakers will include representatives from ACT Labor, the Canberra Liberals and the ACT Greens.

By this do you mean that they will be the only parties represented?

If yes, did you invite other parties/independent candidates?

Who did you invite and from that list who has rejected the invitation?