A hero emerges in Kaleen thanks to police video, but his dog wasn’t much use

johnboy 29 August 2012 74

Following on from this morning’s report of a brutal robbery at the Kaleen Caltex ACT Policing has trialled a new system to let us have the video from the event.

And isn’t it just a cracker? The dog walker taking charge like a boss is priceless and the pratfalls of the thuggish thief will live long in the memory.

Now having enjoyed that let us remember this bit from the earlier release:

Anyone who may have been in the vicinity of the Caltex service station in Kaleen on Friday night and witnessed the aggravated robbery, or knows someone matching the above description is urged to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or via www.act.crimestoppers.com.au. Information can be provided anonymously.

screenshot


UPDATE 29/08/12 08:52: Thanks to the CanMeme folks for this gem:

batman


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74 Responses to A hero emerges in Kaleen thanks to police video, but his dog wasn’t much use
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Henry82 Henry82 10:02 pm 30 Aug 12

Tooks said :

Everyone I’ve ever seen sprayed has been fully decontaminated with water alone. I’ve never ever seen anyone use eye drops in relation to OC spray.

If you can find one domumented case of someone dying after being sprayed with 5% OC spray (which most cops carry) as the only contributing factor, I’ll be surprised.

OC spray is not soluble in water, so decontamination doesn’t work.

I’m not sure your “only contributing factor” argument really proves anything. OC can be a trigger for the deaths, especially when combined with asthma or other common lung issues.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 7:11 pm 30 Aug 12

Tooks said :

melon1234 said :

Jivrashia said :

Getting killed is always a risk for all parties involved under such circumstance.
Even if the cashier is defenceless.

But I don’t think you’re aware of the effect of capsicum sprays.
It DOES incapacitate, which is why it is actually illegal for a normal civilian to carry around.
The whole point is to give the cashier enough time to run back into an office while the culprit temporarily loses vision and gets disoriented.

The alternative is a taser gun. But its claim to being non-lethal is in question so I didn’t suggest it.

I don’t think you’re completely aware of the effects of capsicum spray.

There’s more reported deaths caused by the deployment of capsicum spray, than there has been from the deployment of TASERs. Without getting into the debate about the accuracy of studies, it’s believed to have caused asphyxiation due to its impact on the respiratory system, and studies have suggested it can cause fatal reactions to those under the influence of cocaine. That said, those under the influence of drugs tend not to react to the symptoms of OC spray anyway, which is why police carry an arsenal of weapons to allow the appropriate response to the situation.

That said, both OC spray and TASERs are classified as ‘less-than-lethal’ weapons, not ‘non-lethal’.

Really? There’s been about 60 (alleged) OC spray related deaths (involving police) in the US over about 20 years. There’s been 180 Taser related deaths in the US in 6 years.

In Australia, there have been 6 Taser related deaths in the last 10 years. I could find only 2 OC spray deaths in that time. In one of those cases, the cause of death wasn’t clear from the post morterm (BTW he stabbed a man and refused to drop the knife when directed to by police – he was lucky he wasn’t shot). In the other, the man died from burns (was self harming when sprayed by police).

As far as the earlier comment by someone that you need special eye drops to decontaminate a person from spray is absolute rubbish. Everyone I’ve ever seen sprayed has been fully decontaminated with water alone. I’ve never ever seen anyone use eye drops in relation to OC spray.

If you can find one domumented case of someone dying after being sprayed with 5% OC spray (which most cops carry) as the only contributing factor, I’ll be surprised.

I think the problem is that oc spray and tasers are supposed to be used instead of firearms, not used if somebody doesn’t do what a police says or a police doesn’t like someone’s attitude.

Tooks Tooks 4:57 pm 30 Aug 12

melon1234 said :

Jivrashia said :

Getting killed is always a risk for all parties involved under such circumstance.
Even if the cashier is defenceless.

But I don’t think you’re aware of the effect of capsicum sprays.
It DOES incapacitate, which is why it is actually illegal for a normal civilian to carry around.
The whole point is to give the cashier enough time to run back into an office while the culprit temporarily loses vision and gets disoriented.

The alternative is a taser gun. But its claim to being non-lethal is in question so I didn’t suggest it.

I don’t think you’re completely aware of the effects of capsicum spray.

There’s more reported deaths caused by the deployment of capsicum spray, than there has been from the deployment of TASERs. Without getting into the debate about the accuracy of studies, it’s believed to have caused asphyxiation due to its impact on the respiratory system, and studies have suggested it can cause fatal reactions to those under the influence of cocaine. That said, those under the influence of drugs tend not to react to the symptoms of OC spray anyway, which is why police carry an arsenal of weapons to allow the appropriate response to the situation.

That said, both OC spray and TASERs are classified as ‘less-than-lethal’ weapons, not ‘non-lethal’.

Really? There’s been about 60 (alleged) OC spray related deaths (involving police) in the US over about 20 years. There’s been 180 Taser related deaths in the US in 6 years.

In Australia, there have been 6 Taser related deaths in the last 10 years. I could find only 2 OC spray deaths in that time. In one of those cases, the cause of death wasn’t clear from the post morterm (BTW he stabbed a man and refused to drop the knife when directed to by police – he was lucky he wasn’t shot). In the other, the man died from burns (was self harming when sprayed by police).

As far as the earlier comment by someone that you need special eye drops to decontaminate a person from spray is absolute rubbish. Everyone I’ve ever seen sprayed has been fully decontaminated with water alone. I’ve never ever seen anyone use eye drops in relation to OC spray.

If you can find one domumented case of someone dying after being sprayed with 5% OC spray (which most cops carry) as the only contributing factor, I’ll be surprised.

jimbob87 jimbob87 4:54 pm 30 Aug 12

Real heros walk away though guys…..

obamabinladen obamabinladen 12:09 pm 30 Aug 12

Dog walker good work buddy you deserve a bravery award!!!

Government needs to act on violent criminal offenders immediately. If you commit a violent unprovoked crime minimum sentence 5 years max life! Second offense minimum ten years max life! 3rd offense, minimum life maximum death and be subject to scientific experiments!!! Lol but seriously there is no place for unprovoked violence in modern society it needs to be addressed quickly.

If you enjoy fighting and hurting people join a mixed martial arts gym, if you enjoy committing violent crimes go to gaol for a long time! Tougher penalties may not stop offenders from re-offending however it does keep them off the streets for a longer period of time thus reducing violent crimes.

Thumper Thumper 7:20 pm 29 Aug 12

el said :

I don’t understand why all servos don’t have the late-night ‘window’ setup where customers don’t even get to step foot in the shop, and simply slide money through a small tray with the cashier safe behind thick acrylic screening.

Like this one.

Most I’ve seen recently have a large sliding ‘tub’ to get purchased items through from the cashier to the customer, too.

Indeed. It’s really that simple.

Cashier offices have been doing it for tens of years, probably more.

melon1234 melon1234 6:15 pm 29 Aug 12

Jivrashia said :

Getting killed is always a risk for all parties involved under such circumstance.
Even if the cashier is defenceless.

But I don’t think you’re aware of the effect of capsicum sprays.
It DOES incapacitate, which is why it is actually illegal for a normal civilian to carry around.
The whole point is to give the cashier enough time to run back into an office while the culprit temporarily loses vision and gets disoriented.

The alternative is a taser gun. But its claim to being non-lethal is in question so I didn’t suggest it.

I don’t think you’re completely aware of the effects of capsicum spray.

There’s more reported deaths caused by the deployment of capsicum spray, than there has been from the deployment of TASERs. Without getting into the debate about the accuracy of studies, it’s believed to have caused asphyxiation due to its impact on the respiratory system, and studies have suggested it can cause fatal reactions to those under the influence of cocaine. That said, those under the influence of drugs tend not to react to the symptoms of OC spray anyway, which is why police carry an arsenal of weapons to allow the appropriate response to the situation.

That said, both OC spray and TASERs are classified as ‘less-than-lethal’ weapons, not ‘non-lethal’.

el el 5:30 pm 29 Aug 12

I don’t understand why all servos don’t have the late-night ‘window’ setup where customers don’t even get to step foot in the shop, and simply slide money through a small tray with the cashier safe behind thick acrylic screening.

Like this one.

Most I’ve seen recently have a large sliding ‘tub’ to get purchased items through from the cashier to the customer, too.

MERC600 MERC600 5:02 pm 29 Aug 12

I’m not fan of the current government, but calling it a “Greenie/Labor court system” is pretty ridiculous. Do you understand the difference between the legislature and the judiciary?

Ah MysteryMan .. you must be new to the Territory ..

Jivrashia Jivrashia 4:38 pm 29 Aug 12

johnboy said :

Are you trying to get the cashiers killed?

Because making their only defence something that will annoy and aggravated without incapacitating their attacker seems like a good way to go about it.

Getting killed is always a risk for all parties involved under such circumstance.
Even if the cashier is defenceless.

But I don’t think you’re aware of the effect of capsicum sprays.
It DOES incapacitate, which is why it is actually illegal for a normal civilian to carry around.
The whole point is to give the cashier enough time to run back into an office while the culprit temporarily loses vision and gets disoriented.

The alternative is a taser gun. But its claim to being non-lethal is in question so I didn’t suggest it.

Henry82 Henry82 4:22 pm 29 Aug 12

colourful sydney racing identity said :

the lask of protection for cashiers is a serious oh&s issue – get workcover in.

It appears it would satisfy their “safety” checklist.

http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/formspublications/publications/Documents/managing_risk_robbery_violence_service_stations_fact_sheet_0697.pdf

As for others, the deterrent is making service stations less desirable for theft. As you can see in the CCTV, the thief didn’t get any $50 bills, only 20s, 10s, and 5s. If there was more than $150 in the till, i’d be surprised. Anyway, to commit an armed robbery and assault someone for $150, they must be pretty thick. It won’t take long before they’re caught.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 4:07 pm 29 Aug 12

Big question is, what exactly is the owner of the franchise doing? I could fit a screen over that counter that would still ensure 100% visibility and practibility and safe from everything bar heavy duty tools for like 3k. Not sure what those wire jobs are costing the shell servos but i imagine around the same price.

colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 4:06 pm 29 Aug 12

the lask of protection for cashiers is a serious oh&s issue – get workcover in.

c_c c_c 3:50 pm 29 Aug 12

Jivrashia said :

p1 said :

but actually considering your suggesting seriously, and responding.
Consider it a compliment.

This.

I actually like the idea of arming shop attendants with a capsicum spray above all others.
Zero risk of permanent injury or even death.

You really don’t need something that provides lethal force. Just a deterrent or inconvenience will do.
These robbers only need the slightest of encouragement to run.

Crims are normally on the edge, and while some may tip towards fleeing, others when pushed will push back, hard, and employ lethal force. People have been killed for surprisingly little in crimes.

That’s why as I advocated earlier, servos should have more defensive features like banks. Sure, you can’t make it bullet proof, but a polycarbonate shield across the counter is a decent deterrent, and would at least delay an offender long enough for the staff to push an alarm.

Guns immediately escalate the situation, and will push crims towards arming themselves better.

Battons and OC are both dangerous the the person using them, and very often ineffective against the target.

Jivrashia Jivrashia 3:38 pm 29 Aug 12

p1 said :

but actually considering your suggesting seriously, and responding.
Consider it a compliment.

This.

I actually like the idea of arming shop attendants with a capsicum spray above all others.
Zero risk of permanent injury or even death.

You really don’t need something that provides lethal force. Just a deterrent or inconvenience will do.
These robbers only need the slightest of encouragement to run.

But if the robber has a gun then he means serious business.
Just stay low and think only of your safety.

    johnboy johnboy 3:42 pm 29 Aug 12

    Are you trying to get the cashiers killed?

    Because making their only defence something that will annoy and aggravated without incapacitating their attacker seems like a good way to go about it.

    Either they need something that will, in the parlance of the US Army, “put their dicks in the dirt”, or they need some physical separation, a panic button, and insurance to cover what they hand over.

p1 p1 2:07 pm 29 Aug 12

Mordd said :

I love how someone suggests give them a gun, no-one comments on it……

Probably simply people dismissing out of hand the gun comment, either as a troll, or ’cause they know it will never happen, but actually considering your suggesting seriously, and responding.

Consider it a compliment.

KB1971 KB1971 1:21 pm 29 Aug 12

Mordd said :

Diggety said :

Give the shop attendant a shotgun.

I love how someone suggests give them a gun, no-one comments on it. I suggest give them a baton / cap-spray (and there are lower grades of cap-spray they could be given which are not quite as dangerous as police grade, the stuff private citizens in USA are allowed to carry is an order of magnitude less powerful than what the police are issued with) and people are all over it saying that’s going to far.

Go figure heh…..

Welcome to RA.

Mordd Mordd 1:02 pm 29 Aug 12

Diggety said :

Give the shop attendant a shotgun.

I love how someone suggests give them a gun, no-one comments on it. I suggest give them a baton / cap-spray (and there are lower grades of cap-spray they could be given which are not quite as dangerous as police grade, the stuff private citizens in USA are allowed to carry is an order of magnitude less powerful than what the police are issued with) and people are all over it saying that’s going to far.

Go figure heh…..

p1 p1 12:40 pm 29 Aug 12

Mordd said :

….less likely to shatter bone unlike the mag light baton favourite of security guards….

Ironically, one of the reasons¹ security guards like to carry huge maglite torches is that it is illegal for them to carry all other weapons (apart from those guards specifically licensed – like the ATM refill guys), but it is perfectly legal and logical for a guard (specifically at night) to carry a torch.

So they end up carrying something potentially more dangerous to beat people with.

[1] – The other reason is that a section of the insecurity guard community have serious delusions of their own awesomeness, and need to look as hardcore as possible at all times. Also why I don’t support giving them, or servo operators, other weapons (as delightful as it might be to hear of one of these scum getting a load of birdshot to the arse).

c_c c_c 11:45 am 29 Aug 12

Henry82 said :

Mordd said :

Personally I say give all servo attendants retractable batons… capsicum spray

while i think these muggers are scum, i’d rather not have the general public armed with these kinds of weapons.

There should also be some emergency alert button / knock bar they have that summons instant police response,

Most tills these days have it built in.

Have to agree. It’s a common misconception that OC doesn’t cause harm. There have been deaths and permanent injuries linked to it, unless conditions are right the person deploying it and innocent bystanders are often affected by it, and it cannot be washed away easily. The bottle water rinsing you see on TV is an interim measure until proper eye wash can be applied, and even then the effects can last days.

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