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A little more mad in the methadone. Hoarding at the prison leads to OD

By johnboy - 19 September 2011 56

The Liberals’ Jeremy Hanson is taking a poke at administration at the Alexander Machonochie Centre in the wake of a methadone overdose:

“In August, a prisoner was not properly supervised when taking methadone, and as a result, was able to stockpile the drug in a communal juice container,” Mr Hanson said.

“A second prisoner was then given a drink from this container after suffering an epileptic fit, and inadvertently overdosed on the methadone.

“This is an extremely saddening incident which could have been avoided.

“Thankfully, the inmate received immediate medical care and survived, but how the issue occurred in the first place is very worrying.

Mr Hanson would like an investigation and asks if this mob can run a needle exchange.

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A little more mad in the methadone. Hoarding at the prison leads to OD
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PBO 10:37 am 16 May 17

I am curious about why methadone is being given to non heroin users, why are pot smokers being given it? Steven Freeman wasn’t a heroin user but was put on it whilst there along with other prisoners. Seems odd that there’s so much of it in the headlines everytime there is an incident, almost like it is a convenient reason. Will be interesting to see if the fellow who just died had it in his system as well.

charlieshavargo33 9:33 am 13 Dec 11

I think the real problem here is that doctors tend to prescribe methadone and just forget about it. methadone is designed to help with opiod withdrawal until the person’s symptoms of withdrawal wear off, not to be given to you as a permanent replacement for your heroin and to sell to other ppl in your spare time. I think if more doctors actually monitored patients as they weened off methadone, a lot of incidences like this one would not be happening. besides, the guy obviously is being prescribed too much if he doesn’t need them and is able to sell them to other prisoners. there’s actually an article I read recently that said that the average person’s symptoms of opiod dependence can begin to diminish within as little 24 hours after diacetylmorphine, heroin has left the blood stream (the article was on http://www.edrugrehab.com if you want to read it)

fgzk 9:43 am 26 Sep 11

I love Junkies …..I find then endlessly entertaining. They make me laugh a lot. Life would be bland without them.

whitelaughter 1:18 am 26 Sep 11

Violet68 said :

johnboy said :

Yeah……jails have made so much headway in addressing criminal behaviour.

very effective in protecting the wider community as long as they’re inside though.

So long as you consider prison guards as pariahs, and not part of the wider community 🙁

Bring back hanging.

Violet68 8:07 pm 25 Sep 11

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

You are seriously going to quote an American website promoting their own highly costly rapid detox program?

Seeing as you do not dispute anything they say, why should I not?

Violet68 said :

I kind of knew you wouldn’t grasp the concept of holistic treatment. Did you bother to read the ABC article discussion where there is a comparison of Methadone and Insulin? Insulin does not cure diabetes but it is a highly successful medical treatment that saves lives – as is Methadone for people with drug dependence.[/quote\]

The difference being that insulin replaces a naturally occurring substance within the body, one which the diabetic body cannot produce itself. Methadone is there to replace the junkies self created dependence on the unnatural chemical heroin, which the junkie has got themselves addicted to.

But of course, that is not their fault, and society is to blame.

I think you might find this quote via your initial source helpful in your obvious thirst for alternate views to your own on this subject http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2001/391783.htm

“Which brings us back to methadone and whether it’s a chemical bandaid or a therapy.

Mary Jeanne Kreek: A better analogy is probably insulin treatment for type 1 or type 2 diabetes. A bandaid, no, but if you’re speaking more correctly as a treatment for the receptor, indeed, just like insulin you’re replacing that which should be there normally. We may in fact be doing the same with beta-endorphin. We are finding that there seems to be evidence for a relative endorphin deficiency, and persons who are now off heroin, off methadone and in this drug-free state.

Norman Swan: And of course we come now to the key question where prejudice about methadone treatment arises: can you ever get somebody off it?

Mary Jeanne Kreek: We have to ask why we’d want to get people off a drug if a medication is being helpful. I don’t use the word ‘drug’, I use medication if you’ve noticed.”

Diabetes can be caused through self initiated poor diet, obesity, living a sedentary lifestyle and genetic makeup. I don’t see you naming these people as “druggies” or “fatties” or “scum”…..thank goodness. I don’t see you stating that the individual is to blame for their Diabetes either.

Finally, I don’t have to dispute what an American quick fix detox site (making money out of people’s misery) says, there are plenty of experts in the field to do that and you are certainly not one of them.

mareva 7:48 pm 25 Sep 11

Ben_Dover said :

[

mareva said :

I pray this never happens to any one of you, but consider that your own son or daughter takes heroin once. Perhaps this happens after they are in a car accident, and were prescribed negligently high amounts of morphine as an inpatient. Now they come out of hospital with an opiate dependency and before they’ve realised it their entire life is turned upside down.

Utter hogwash, it takes six months or longer of heroin use to get addicted.

Sheree Cairney: A long standing belief even amongst heroin users is that when it comes to heroin it’s one hit and you’re hooked. But British researchers have shown that it takes much longer to get addicted than most people think. They trace the path to addiction in 72 heroin users who attended drug treatment centres around London. Addiction here means complete physical and psychological dependence. It means you get withdrawal symptoms when you come off it and find it really hard to give up.

Dr Ross Coomber from the University of Plymouth presented the findings at a recent drug’s Conference in Melbourne.

Ross Coomber: The main finding was that for most of the people involved in the study that it took between six months to over a year generally to become physically dependent and that this contradicts idea of heroin dependency being either instant or very rapid.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2006/1558639.htm

I appreciate that it is not one-hit to addiction for everyone, and I have learnt something from this study you have referred to.

Nonetheless in my anecdotal experience heroin can for some become addictive in considerably less than 6-12 months. The fellow I refer to in my original post developed opiate addiction, unbeknownst to him, during 10 days as an inpatient. Then he took heroin intravenously one time on the streets. He says that after that he was a different person and he has remained that way for going on 6 years now, notwithstanding annual attempts (each January) at residential rehabilitation. For him the process of addiction would have taken less than 2 weeks as I understand he took heroin within days of being discharged.

The effects of any drug on the brain differ from person to person.

Watson 7:24 pm 25 Sep 11

Ben_Dover said :

The difference being that insulin replaces a naturally occurring substance within the body, one which the diabetic body cannot produce itself. Methadone is there to replace the junkies self created dependence on the unnatural chemical heroin, which the junkie has got themselves addicted to.

But of course, that is not their fault, and society is to blame.

And they will burn in hell for eternity because of their sins!

Ben_Dover 6:00 pm 25 Sep 11

Violet68 said :

You are seriously going to quote an American website promoting their own highly costly rapid detox program?

Seeing as you do not dispute anything they say, why should I not?

Violet68 said :

I kind of knew you wouldn’t grasp the concept of holistic treatment. Did you bother to read the ABC article discussion where there is a comparison of Methadone and Insulin? Insulin does not cure diabetes but it is a highly successful medical treatment that saves lives – as is Methadone for people with drug dependence.[/quote\]

The difference being that insulin replaces a naturally occurring substance within the body, one which the diabetic body cannot produce itself. Methadone is there to replace the junkies self created dependence on the unnatural chemical heroin, which the junkie has got themselves addicted to.

But of course, that is not their fault, and society is to blame.

Violet68 5:44 pm 25 Sep 11

Nothing you have posted has in anyway contradicted anything I have posted. You can carry on trying to absolve everyone of any responsibility for anything they do in their life if you like. The problem being that palliative intervention with methadone, does not treat, and does not cure, it is used to symptom ease in heroin withdrawal. In fact most on methadone end up struggling to get off that.

http://www.methadone-addiction.com/

You are seriously going to quote an American website promoting their own highly costly rapid detox program? Sigh……thanks for the link to the ABC. It was interesting. I kind of knew you wouldn’t grasp the concept of holistic treatment. Did you bother to read the ABC article discussion where there is a comparison of Methadone and Insulin? Insulin does not cure diabetes but it is a highly successful medical treatment that saves lives – as is Methadone for people with drug dependence.

The truth is if you go to the Doctor or ACT Health asking for something to help with the symptoms of heroin withdrawal, they may tell you to go and book yourself into a detox, perhaps give you a prescription for valium or alternatively tell you to go home get some fluids into you, take some Panadol and sit it out for 3 days just like a bad flu. They won’t give you Methadone for your withdrawal symptoms.

We do agree on one thing though, Methadone itself creates a dependence. It probably does more damage to internal organs and teeth as well. The difference between the two comes down to law really. I’d much prefer the legalisation of prescribed heroin than Methadone. How does that grab ya?

Ben_Dover 3:43 pm 25 Sep 11

Violet68 said :

OK so NSW Health, ACT Health and numerous Alcohol and Drug Agencies have named their Methadone “Treatment” Programs so I could research “anything” at all to support my comments. They also offer Palliative Care Programs which aim to ease the burden and suffering of people who are terminally ill (very different context).

Treatment involves providing medical management and care of patient. Methadone can reduce criminal activity in relation to drug use, it can help stabilise someone’s drug use to the point where they can access other interventions, hold down employment, study and function within society. Methadone can also block the effects of other opioids to the point where someone can reduce their drug use significantly and even achieve abstinence. Methadone can also help extend life expectancy. All very strong “cures” for a whole range of “symptoms” associated with drug use and very far from being palliative…….not sure if you will comprehend a holistic approach though. Drug dependence is not equivalent to the common cold and your black/white attitude reflects an inability to understand the complexity of the issue.

In the meantime, you stick to your belief that dependence takes 6 months to kick in but there ARE other theories on this, believe it or not!. “We have an increasingly clear idea of how genetic and early childhood influences lie at the heart of the development of addiction and how the neurochemistry of the brain renders users unable to simply stop using.
Charlie Lloyd: Senior Lecturer at York University”

I took a look at the source you quoted and read a couple of other articles from that site …..funny they call it “treatment” too. If you can bear to look past your own nose and the ABC, there’s a plethora of information available on the subject.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2001/391783.htm

Nothing you have posted has in anyway contradicted anything I have posted. You can carry on trying to absolve everyone of any responsibility for anything they do in their life if you like. The problem being that palliative intervention with methadone, does not treat, and does not cure, it is used to symptom ease in heroin withdrawal. In fact most on methadone end up struggling to get off that.

http://www.methadone-addiction.com/

Violet68 2:31 pm 25 Sep 11

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

The vast majority of methadone is is as a palliative (not treatment as some idiot thinks) for withdrawal from heroin addiction.

Methadone is not used to treat withdrawal symptoms (as some idiot thinks) but rather as a maintenance/opioid replacement treatment. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/factsheets/drugandalcohol/methadone.html

Thank you for proving me right. You were the idiot who thinks methadone is a treatment, it is not, it is a palliative;

pal·li·ate
verb (used with object), -at·ed, -at·ing.
1.
to relieve or lessen without curing; mitigate; alleviate.

Violet68 said :

Anyone can google an article to support their argument.

Something you totally fail to do. How strange?

Fact is that any person who uses a drug whether it be nicotine, heroin, speed, coffee, may have a predisposition to becoming dependent. If you read up on heroin, dependence and tolerance can happen rather quickly.

Rather quickly? Yep, in about six months, if you work at it.

Violet68 said :

Research both sides of the argument before preaching.

Should I copy you and research anything at all, as long as it agrees with your “nobody is to blame for anything they do” take on life.

OK so NSW Health, ACT Health and numerous Alcohol and Drug Agencies have named their Methadone “Treatment” Programs so I could research “anything” at all to support my comments. They also offer Palliative Care Programs which aim to ease the burden and suffering of people who are terminally ill (very different context).

Treatment involves providing medical management and care of patient. Methadone can reduce criminal activity in relation to drug use, it can help stabilise someone’s drug use to the point where they can access other interventions, hold down employment, study and function within society. Methadone can also block the effects of other opioids to the point where someone can reduce their drug use significantly and even achieve abstinence. Methadone can also help extend life expectancy. All very strong “cures” for a whole range of “symptoms” associated with drug use and very far from being palliative…….not sure if you will comprehend a holistic approach though. Drug dependence is not equivalent to the common cold and your black/white attitude reflects an inability to understand the complexity of the issue.

In the meantime, you stick to your belief that dependence takes 6 months to kick in but there ARE other theories on this, believe it or not!. “We have an increasingly clear idea of how genetic and early childhood influences lie at the heart of the development of addiction and how the neurochemistry of the brain renders users unable to simply stop using.
Charlie Lloyd: Senior Lecturer at York University”

I took a look at the source you quoted and read a couple of other articles from that site …..funny they call it “treatment” too. If you can bear to look past your own nose and the ABC, there’s a plethora of information available on the subject.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2001/391783.htm

Watson 1:15 pm 25 Sep 11

Tooks said :

There are some stereotypical ‘junkies’, but, to be honest, there’s not many of them left in Canberra.

You’re kidding, right?

+1

Try taking Bus 38 that goes past the Rehab clinic at Canberra Hospital mid morning. And there’s quite a few other places that offer good junkie-watching opportunities.

I have a neighbour whose daughter is one, went to a funeral of someone’s father who was a heroin junk for decades. Just a couple of many sad stories about drug addiction in Canberra.

Ben_Dover 1:05 pm 25 Sep 11

Violet68 said :

The vast majority of methadone is is as a palliative (not treatment as some idiot thinks) for withdrawal from heroin addiction.

Methadone is not used to treat withdrawal symptoms (as some idiot thinks) but rather as a maintenance/opioid replacement treatment. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/factsheets/drugandalcohol/methadone.html

Thank you for proving me right. You were the idiot who thinks methadone is a treatment, it is not, it is a palliative;

pal·li·ate
verb (used with object), -at·ed, -at·ing.
1.
to relieve or lessen without curing; mitigate; alleviate.

Violet68 said :

Anyone can google an article to support their argument.

Something you totally fail to do. How strange?

Fact is that any person who uses a drug whether it be nicotine, heroin, speed, coffee, may have a predisposition to becoming dependent. If you read up on heroin, dependence and tolerance can happen rather quickly.

Rather quickly? Yep, in about six months, if you work at it.

Violet68 said :

Research both sides of the argument before preaching.

Should I copy you and research anything at all, as long as it agrees with your “nobody is to blame for anything they do” take on life.

Violet68 12:02 pm 25 Sep 11

The vast majority of methadone is is as a palliative (not treatment as some idiot thinks) for withdrawal from heroin addiction.

Methadone is not used to treat withdrawal symptoms (as some idiot thinks) but rather as a maintenance/opioid replacement treatment. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/factsheets/drugandalcohol/methadone.html
http://health.act.gov.au/health-services/community-health/community-health-services/alcohol-other-drugs/opioid-maintenance-treatment

Utter hogwash, it takes six months or longer of heroin use to get addicted.

Anyone can google an article to support their argument. Fact is that any person who uses a drug whether it be nicotine, heroin, speed, coffee, may have a predisposition to becoming dependent. If you read up on heroin, dependence and tolerance can happen rather quickly.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/heroin/addiction.htm

Research both sides of the argument before preaching.

Ben_Dover 9:07 am 25 Sep 11

Jethro said :

[But people who have things happen to them like getting hit by a drunk driver, which causes them to end up in hospital where they face numerous operations, after which they need to get their pain treated by morphine/pethidine, which they subsequently become addicted to, do go onto the methadone programme.

Jethro, while accepting your point, you have to accept that the worlds, or Canberra’s even, methadone clinics are not full of people as you describe, and they are very much in the tiny minority. As they say; “it’s the exception that proves (tests) the rule”, but in this case it does not disprove the generality. The vast majority of methadone is is as a palliative (not treatment as some idiot thinks) for withdrawal from heroin addiction.

[

mareva said :

I pray this never happens to any one of you, but consider that your own son or daughter takes heroin once. Perhaps this happens after they are in a car accident, and were prescribed negligently high amounts of morphine as an inpatient. Now they come out of hospital with an opiate dependency and before they’ve realised it their entire life is turned upside down.

Utter hogwash, it takes six months or longer of heroin use to get addicted.

Sheree Cairney: A long standing belief even amongst heroin users is that when it comes to heroin it’s one hit and you’re hooked. But British researchers have shown that it takes much longer to get addicted than most people think. They trace the path to addiction in 72 heroin users who attended drug treatment centres around London. Addiction here means complete physical and psychological dependence. It means you get withdrawal symptoms when you come off it and find it really hard to give up.

Dr Ross Coomber from the University of Plymouth presented the findings at a recent drug’s Conference in Melbourne.

Ross Coomber: The main finding was that for most of the people involved in the study that it took between six months to over a year generally to become physically dependent and that this contradicts idea of heroin dependency being either instant or very rapid.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2006/1558639.htm

mareva 9:55 am 24 Sep 11

Many people who have never taken heroin will never understand the seriousness of the addiction. If it were as simple as going cold turkey for a few months you can bet your bottom dollar heroin addiction would be almost non-existant. Almost every addict has done this at some point.

Junkies would not wish their lifestyle on their worst enemy.

I pray this never happens to any one of you, but consider that your own son or daughter takes heroin once. Perhaps this happens after they are in a car accident, and were prescribed negligently high amounts of morphine as an inpatient. Now they come out of hospital with an opiate dependency and before they’ve realised it their entire life is turned upside down.

This happened to a mate of my brother’s in college. A nice kid, came from a hard-working family. He has been in and out of prison now since he was 20 or 21 I think. Can you imagine the heartache of this kid’s family.

And then there are those addicts who were practically born in to addiction, parents dealt drugs and that’s the lifestyle in which the kid as raised. What opportunity did that kid ever have to escape. Look at your own life and how much it was shaped by your parents/family/upbringing. The strength it requires to completely reject the lifestyle you’re brought up in is superhuman.

Call me a bleeding heart, I’ll take it as a compliment. To me a bleeding heart is someone who doesn’t put themselves above others and someone who has bucketloads of empathy. And also someone who wants practical solutions. Locking people in jail cold turkey…….I just don’t even know where to begin with this. It just won’t work. Do some research please before you make comments like this.

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