19 September 2011

A little more mad in the methadone. Hoarding at the prison leads to OD

| johnboy
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The Liberals’ Jeremy Hanson is taking a poke at administration at the Alexander Machonochie Centre in the wake of a methadone overdose:

“In August, a prisoner was not properly supervised when taking methadone, and as a result, was able to stockpile the drug in a communal juice container,” Mr Hanson said.

“A second prisoner was then given a drink from this container after suffering an epileptic fit, and inadvertently overdosed on the methadone.

“This is an extremely saddening incident which could have been avoided.

“Thankfully, the inmate received immediate medical care and survived, but how the issue occurred in the first place is very worrying.

Mr Hanson would like an investigation and asks if this mob can run a needle exchange.

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I am curious about why methadone is being given to non heroin users, why are pot smokers being given it? Steven Freeman wasn’t a heroin user but was put on it whilst there along with other prisoners. Seems odd that there’s so much of it in the headlines everytime there is an incident, almost like it is a convenient reason. Will be interesting to see if the fellow who just died had it in his system as well.

charlieshavargo339:33 am 13 Dec 11

I think the real problem here is that doctors tend to prescribe methadone and just forget about it. methadone is designed to help with opiod withdrawal until the person’s symptoms of withdrawal wear off, not to be given to you as a permanent replacement for your heroin and to sell to other ppl in your spare time. I think if more doctors actually monitored patients as they weened off methadone, a lot of incidences like this one would not be happening. besides, the guy obviously is being prescribed too much if he doesn’t need them and is able to sell them to other prisoners. there’s actually an article I read recently that said that the average person’s symptoms of opiod dependence can begin to diminish within as little 24 hours after diacetylmorphine, heroin has left the blood stream (the article was on http://www.edrugrehab.com if you want to read it)

I love Junkies …..I find then endlessly entertaining. They make me laugh a lot. Life would be bland without them.

whitelaughter1:18 am 26 Sep 11

Violet68 said :

johnboy said :

Yeah……jails have made so much headway in addressing criminal behaviour.

very effective in protecting the wider community as long as they’re inside though.

So long as you consider prison guards as pariahs, and not part of the wider community 🙁

Bring back hanging.

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

You are seriously going to quote an American website promoting their own highly costly rapid detox program?

Seeing as you do not dispute anything they say, why should I not?

Violet68 said :

I kind of knew you wouldn’t grasp the concept of holistic treatment. Did you bother to read the ABC article discussion where there is a comparison of Methadone and Insulin? Insulin does not cure diabetes but it is a highly successful medical treatment that saves lives – as is Methadone for people with drug dependence.[/quote\]

The difference being that insulin replaces a naturally occurring substance within the body, one which the diabetic body cannot produce itself. Methadone is there to replace the junkies self created dependence on the unnatural chemical heroin, which the junkie has got themselves addicted to.

But of course, that is not their fault, and society is to blame.

I think you might find this quote via your initial source helpful in your obvious thirst for alternate views to your own on this subject http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2001/391783.htm

“Which brings us back to methadone and whether it’s a chemical bandaid or a therapy.

Mary Jeanne Kreek: A better analogy is probably insulin treatment for type 1 or type 2 diabetes. A bandaid, no, but if you’re speaking more correctly as a treatment for the receptor, indeed, just like insulin you’re replacing that which should be there normally. We may in fact be doing the same with beta-endorphin. We are finding that there seems to be evidence for a relative endorphin deficiency, and persons who are now off heroin, off methadone and in this drug-free state.

Norman Swan: And of course we come now to the key question where prejudice about methadone treatment arises: can you ever get somebody off it?

Mary Jeanne Kreek: We have to ask why we’d want to get people off a drug if a medication is being helpful. I don’t use the word ‘drug’, I use medication if you’ve noticed.”

Diabetes can be caused through self initiated poor diet, obesity, living a sedentary lifestyle and genetic makeup. I don’t see you naming these people as “druggies” or “fatties” or “scum”…..thank goodness. I don’t see you stating that the individual is to blame for their Diabetes either.

Finally, I don’t have to dispute what an American quick fix detox site (making money out of people’s misery) says, there are plenty of experts in the field to do that and you are certainly not one of them.

Ben_Dover said :

[

mareva said :

I pray this never happens to any one of you, but consider that your own son or daughter takes heroin once. Perhaps this happens after they are in a car accident, and were prescribed negligently high amounts of morphine as an inpatient. Now they come out of hospital with an opiate dependency and before they’ve realised it their entire life is turned upside down.

Utter hogwash, it takes six months or longer of heroin use to get addicted.

Sheree Cairney: A long standing belief even amongst heroin users is that when it comes to heroin it’s one hit and you’re hooked. But British researchers have shown that it takes much longer to get addicted than most people think. They trace the path to addiction in 72 heroin users who attended drug treatment centres around London. Addiction here means complete physical and psychological dependence. It means you get withdrawal symptoms when you come off it and find it really hard to give up.

Dr Ross Coomber from the University of Plymouth presented the findings at a recent drug’s Conference in Melbourne.

Ross Coomber: The main finding was that for most of the people involved in the study that it took between six months to over a year generally to become physically dependent and that this contradicts idea of heroin dependency being either instant or very rapid.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2006/1558639.htm

I appreciate that it is not one-hit to addiction for everyone, and I have learnt something from this study you have referred to.

Nonetheless in my anecdotal experience heroin can for some become addictive in considerably less than 6-12 months. The fellow I refer to in my original post developed opiate addiction, unbeknownst to him, during 10 days as an inpatient. Then he took heroin intravenously one time on the streets. He says that after that he was a different person and he has remained that way for going on 6 years now, notwithstanding annual attempts (each January) at residential rehabilitation. For him the process of addiction would have taken less than 2 weeks as I understand he took heroin within days of being discharged.

The effects of any drug on the brain differ from person to person.

Ben_Dover said :

The difference being that insulin replaces a naturally occurring substance within the body, one which the diabetic body cannot produce itself. Methadone is there to replace the junkies self created dependence on the unnatural chemical heroin, which the junkie has got themselves addicted to.

But of course, that is not their fault, and society is to blame.

And they will burn in hell for eternity because of their sins!

Violet68 said :

You are seriously going to quote an American website promoting their own highly costly rapid detox program?

Seeing as you do not dispute anything they say, why should I not?

Violet68 said :

I kind of knew you wouldn’t grasp the concept of holistic treatment. Did you bother to read the ABC article discussion where there is a comparison of Methadone and Insulin? Insulin does not cure diabetes but it is a highly successful medical treatment that saves lives – as is Methadone for people with drug dependence.[/quote\]

The difference being that insulin replaces a naturally occurring substance within the body, one which the diabetic body cannot produce itself. Methadone is there to replace the junkies self created dependence on the unnatural chemical heroin, which the junkie has got themselves addicted to.

But of course, that is not their fault, and society is to blame.

Nothing you have posted has in anyway contradicted anything I have posted. You can carry on trying to absolve everyone of any responsibility for anything they do in their life if you like. The problem being that palliative intervention with methadone, does not treat, and does not cure, it is used to symptom ease in heroin withdrawal. In fact most on methadone end up struggling to get off that.

http://www.methadone-addiction.com/

You are seriously going to quote an American website promoting their own highly costly rapid detox program? Sigh……thanks for the link to the ABC. It was interesting. I kind of knew you wouldn’t grasp the concept of holistic treatment. Did you bother to read the ABC article discussion where there is a comparison of Methadone and Insulin? Insulin does not cure diabetes but it is a highly successful medical treatment that saves lives – as is Methadone for people with drug dependence.

The truth is if you go to the Doctor or ACT Health asking for something to help with the symptoms of heroin withdrawal, they may tell you to go and book yourself into a detox, perhaps give you a prescription for valium or alternatively tell you to go home get some fluids into you, take some Panadol and sit it out for 3 days just like a bad flu. They won’t give you Methadone for your withdrawal symptoms.

We do agree on one thing though, Methadone itself creates a dependence. It probably does more damage to internal organs and teeth as well. The difference between the two comes down to law really. I’d much prefer the legalisation of prescribed heroin than Methadone. How does that grab ya?

Violet68 said :

OK so NSW Health, ACT Health and numerous Alcohol and Drug Agencies have named their Methadone “Treatment” Programs so I could research “anything” at all to support my comments. They also offer Palliative Care Programs which aim to ease the burden and suffering of people who are terminally ill (very different context).

Treatment involves providing medical management and care of patient. Methadone can reduce criminal activity in relation to drug use, it can help stabilise someone’s drug use to the point where they can access other interventions, hold down employment, study and function within society. Methadone can also block the effects of other opioids to the point where someone can reduce their drug use significantly and even achieve abstinence. Methadone can also help extend life expectancy. All very strong “cures” for a whole range of “symptoms” associated with drug use and very far from being palliative…….not sure if you will comprehend a holistic approach though. Drug dependence is not equivalent to the common cold and your black/white attitude reflects an inability to understand the complexity of the issue.

In the meantime, you stick to your belief that dependence takes 6 months to kick in but there ARE other theories on this, believe it or not!. “We have an increasingly clear idea of how genetic and early childhood influences lie at the heart of the development of addiction and how the neurochemistry of the brain renders users unable to simply stop using.
Charlie Lloyd: Senior Lecturer at York University”

I took a look at the source you quoted and read a couple of other articles from that site …..funny they call it “treatment” too. If you can bear to look past your own nose and the ABC, there’s a plethora of information available on the subject.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2001/391783.htm

Nothing you have posted has in anyway contradicted anything I have posted. You can carry on trying to absolve everyone of any responsibility for anything they do in their life if you like. The problem being that palliative intervention with methadone, does not treat, and does not cure, it is used to symptom ease in heroin withdrawal. In fact most on methadone end up struggling to get off that.

http://www.methadone-addiction.com/

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

The vast majority of methadone is is as a palliative (not treatment as some idiot thinks) for withdrawal from heroin addiction.

Methadone is not used to treat withdrawal symptoms (as some idiot thinks) but rather as a maintenance/opioid replacement treatment. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/factsheets/drugandalcohol/methadone.html

Thank you for proving me right. You were the idiot who thinks methadone is a treatment, it is not, it is a palliative;

pal·li·ate
verb (used with object), -at·ed, -at·ing.
1.
to relieve or lessen without curing; mitigate; alleviate.

Violet68 said :

Anyone can google an article to support their argument.

Something you totally fail to do. How strange?

Fact is that any person who uses a drug whether it be nicotine, heroin, speed, coffee, may have a predisposition to becoming dependent. If you read up on heroin, dependence and tolerance can happen rather quickly.

Rather quickly? Yep, in about six months, if you work at it.

Violet68 said :

Research both sides of the argument before preaching.

Should I copy you and research anything at all, as long as it agrees with your “nobody is to blame for anything they do” take on life.

OK so NSW Health, ACT Health and numerous Alcohol and Drug Agencies have named their Methadone “Treatment” Programs so I could research “anything” at all to support my comments. They also offer Palliative Care Programs which aim to ease the burden and suffering of people who are terminally ill (very different context).

Treatment involves providing medical management and care of patient. Methadone can reduce criminal activity in relation to drug use, it can help stabilise someone’s drug use to the point where they can access other interventions, hold down employment, study and function within society. Methadone can also block the effects of other opioids to the point where someone can reduce their drug use significantly and even achieve abstinence. Methadone can also help extend life expectancy. All very strong “cures” for a whole range of “symptoms” associated with drug use and very far from being palliative…….not sure if you will comprehend a holistic approach though. Drug dependence is not equivalent to the common cold and your black/white attitude reflects an inability to understand the complexity of the issue.

In the meantime, you stick to your belief that dependence takes 6 months to kick in but there ARE other theories on this, believe it or not!. “We have an increasingly clear idea of how genetic and early childhood influences lie at the heart of the development of addiction and how the neurochemistry of the brain renders users unable to simply stop using.
Charlie Lloyd: Senior Lecturer at York University”

I took a look at the source you quoted and read a couple of other articles from that site …..funny they call it “treatment” too. If you can bear to look past your own nose and the ABC, there’s a plethora of information available on the subject.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2001/391783.htm

Tooks said :

There are some stereotypical ‘junkies’, but, to be honest, there’s not many of them left in Canberra.

You’re kidding, right?

+1

Try taking Bus 38 that goes past the Rehab clinic at Canberra Hospital mid morning. And there’s quite a few other places that offer good junkie-watching opportunities.

I have a neighbour whose daughter is one, went to a funeral of someone’s father who was a heroin junk for decades. Just a couple of many sad stories about drug addiction in Canberra.

Violet68 said :

The vast majority of methadone is is as a palliative (not treatment as some idiot thinks) for withdrawal from heroin addiction.

Methadone is not used to treat withdrawal symptoms (as some idiot thinks) but rather as a maintenance/opioid replacement treatment. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/factsheets/drugandalcohol/methadone.html

Thank you for proving me right. You were the idiot who thinks methadone is a treatment, it is not, it is a palliative;

pal·li·ate
verb (used with object), -at·ed, -at·ing.
1.
to relieve or lessen without curing; mitigate; alleviate.

Violet68 said :

Anyone can google an article to support their argument.

Something you totally fail to do. How strange?

Fact is that any person who uses a drug whether it be nicotine, heroin, speed, coffee, may have a predisposition to becoming dependent. If you read up on heroin, dependence and tolerance can happen rather quickly.

Rather quickly? Yep, in about six months, if you work at it.

Violet68 said :

Research both sides of the argument before preaching.

Should I copy you and research anything at all, as long as it agrees with your “nobody is to blame for anything they do” take on life.

The vast majority of methadone is is as a palliative (not treatment as some idiot thinks) for withdrawal from heroin addiction.

Methadone is not used to treat withdrawal symptoms (as some idiot thinks) but rather as a maintenance/opioid replacement treatment. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/factsheets/drugandalcohol/methadone.html
http://health.act.gov.au/health-services/community-health/community-health-services/alcohol-other-drugs/opioid-maintenance-treatment

Utter hogwash, it takes six months or longer of heroin use to get addicted.

Anyone can google an article to support their argument. Fact is that any person who uses a drug whether it be nicotine, heroin, speed, coffee, may have a predisposition to becoming dependent. If you read up on heroin, dependence and tolerance can happen rather quickly.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/heroin/addiction.htm

Research both sides of the argument before preaching.

Jethro said :

[But people who have things happen to them like getting hit by a drunk driver, which causes them to end up in hospital where they face numerous operations, after which they need to get their pain treated by morphine/pethidine, which they subsequently become addicted to, do go onto the methadone programme.

Jethro, while accepting your point, you have to accept that the worlds, or Canberra’s even, methadone clinics are not full of people as you describe, and they are very much in the tiny minority. As they say; “it’s the exception that proves (tests) the rule”, but in this case it does not disprove the generality. The vast majority of methadone is is as a palliative (not treatment as some idiot thinks) for withdrawal from heroin addiction.

[

mareva said :

I pray this never happens to any one of you, but consider that your own son or daughter takes heroin once. Perhaps this happens after they are in a car accident, and were prescribed negligently high amounts of morphine as an inpatient. Now they come out of hospital with an opiate dependency and before they’ve realised it their entire life is turned upside down.

Utter hogwash, it takes six months or longer of heroin use to get addicted.

Sheree Cairney: A long standing belief even amongst heroin users is that when it comes to heroin it’s one hit and you’re hooked. But British researchers have shown that it takes much longer to get addicted than most people think. They trace the path to addiction in 72 heroin users who attended drug treatment centres around London. Addiction here means complete physical and psychological dependence. It means you get withdrawal symptoms when you come off it and find it really hard to give up.

Dr Ross Coomber from the University of Plymouth presented the findings at a recent drug’s Conference in Melbourne.

Ross Coomber: The main finding was that for most of the people involved in the study that it took between six months to over a year generally to become physically dependent and that this contradicts idea of heroin dependency being either instant or very rapid.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2006/1558639.htm

Many people who have never taken heroin will never understand the seriousness of the addiction. If it were as simple as going cold turkey for a few months you can bet your bottom dollar heroin addiction would be almost non-existant. Almost every addict has done this at some point.

Junkies would not wish their lifestyle on their worst enemy.

I pray this never happens to any one of you, but consider that your own son or daughter takes heroin once. Perhaps this happens after they are in a car accident, and were prescribed negligently high amounts of morphine as an inpatient. Now they come out of hospital with an opiate dependency and before they’ve realised it their entire life is turned upside down.

This happened to a mate of my brother’s in college. A nice kid, came from a hard-working family. He has been in and out of prison now since he was 20 or 21 I think. Can you imagine the heartache of this kid’s family.

And then there are those addicts who were practically born in to addiction, parents dealt drugs and that’s the lifestyle in which the kid as raised. What opportunity did that kid ever have to escape. Look at your own life and how much it was shaped by your parents/family/upbringing. The strength it requires to completely reject the lifestyle you’re brought up in is superhuman.

Call me a bleeding heart, I’ll take it as a compliment. To me a bleeding heart is someone who doesn’t put themselves above others and someone who has bucketloads of empathy. And also someone who wants practical solutions. Locking people in jail cold turkey…….I just don’t even know where to begin with this. It just won’t work. Do some research please before you make comments like this.

There are some stereotypical ‘junkies’, but, to be honest, there’s not many of them left in Canberra.

You’re kidding, right?

Cold turkey the lot of them until they are well off the drugs.

If drugs getting in to them is a problem then isolation until they are clean.

There are plenty of sneaky ways he could have stockpiled the methadone. The fact he didn’t say anything when the juice was used to assist another prisoner falls on his head. Put the blame where it lies – he would have been quite happy selling his methadone to other prisoners. That he was stockpiling it instead of taking it suggests he doesn’t need it anymore.

LSWCHP said :

Drug addiction, on the other hand, is a sad result of a narcissistic choice, usually in full knowledge of the consequences, and describing it as a health problem is a self serving distortion of reality. It’s like the “epidemic” of obesity that is sweeping the land. “Oh the poor bugger…he was struck down by an attack of obesity in the prime of his life…what terrible bad luck”. Choosing to cram excess food into your mouth, or drugs into your veins, or booze down your gullet is precisely that, a choice. And that’s a helluva lot different to dying of skin cancer against your will at the age of 32 leaving a wife and kid behind, as I’ve witnessed.

Isn’t skin cancer usually the result of a person’s choice not to use sun protection?

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

“Methadone users?” Methadone is a prescribed controlled drug. Do you call people who “use” prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc “junkies?” for short. Do you expect them to go off that medication if they are incarcerated? I doubt it.

Do people who are prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc get it to cope with previous self-initiated heroin problems?

Dear god.

No.

But people who have things happen to them like getting hit by a drunk driver, which causes them to end up in hospital where they face numerous operations, after which they need to get their pain treated by morphine/pethidine, which they subsequently become addicted to, do go onto the methadone programme.

Also, like it or not, drug addicts are people too. They have often had some pretty terrible crap served up to them by life. I do not condone, nor particularly like, drug users, especially those who commit crimes to service their habit.

Nonetheless, the contempt and vitriol directed towards meth or heroin addicts doesn’t really serve a purpose other than making people feel superior about themselves.

LSWCHP said :

Violet68 said :

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

“Methadone users?” Methadone is a prescribed controlled drug. Do you call people who “use” prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc “junkies?” for short. Do you expect them to go off that medication if they are incarcerated? I doubt it.

Do people who are prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc get it to cope with previous self-initiated heroin problems?

Dear god.

All of the above could be self initiated health problems yeah. Drug dependence is also a health problem. Methadone is a treatment not a coping mechanism and is not only used to treat heroin dependence. You have no idea how these health problems were initiated and absolutely no right to speculate or judge. What would you like God to do by the way…..bend you over?

I’ve known quite a few people who’ve been dependent on drugs over the years, and I’m not real sympathetic to the “drug dependence is a health problem” point of view. Cancer is a health problem (I miss you Colin). Bone necrosis is a health problem (hang in there Big Sister). Alzheimers is a health problem (so sorry Gladys).

Drug addiction, on the other hand, is a sad result of a narcissistic choice, usually in full knowledge of the consequences, and describing it as a health problem is a self serving distortion of reality. It’s like the “epidemic” of obesity that is sweeping the land. “Oh the poor bugger…he was struck down by an attack of obesity in the prime of his life…what terrible bad luck”. Choosing to cram excess food into your mouth, or drugs into your veins, or booze down your gullet is precisely that, a choice. And that’s a helluva lot different to dying of skin cancer against your will at the age of 32 leaving a wife and kid behind, as I’ve witnessed.

If you think you are the only one who has lost a loved one to a so called “deserving of sympathy” illness then that’s what I would call narcissistic (it’s not all about YOUR reality). FYI I’ve heard blaming comments towards people with skin cancer as well. Eg. shoulda stayed outta the sun, how vain to cook yourself in a solarium etc etc etc. There is evidence that certain cancers can be a result of poor health choices, who knows if alzheimers is a result of abuse of the body in earlier years? There are many types of cancer and Alzheimers, as there are differences in substance use and dependence. You think the people you love or have loved are deserving of treatment and others are not? Whether these people are deserving of your sympathy or mine is irrelevant…..they are sick and require treatment. It’s not up to you to decide who gets treatment and who doesn’t.

LSWCHP said :

Drug addiction, on the other hand, is a sad result of a narcissistic choice, usually in full knowledge of the consequences, and describing it as a health problem is a self serving distortion of reality.

It’s hard to believe you have actually known people dealing with addiction. That’s such a myopic and simplistic point of view. Honestly, reading that people still think like this just makes me sad for us all.

Violet68 said :

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

“Methadone users?” Methadone is a prescribed controlled drug. Do you call people who “use” prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc “junkies?” for short. Do you expect them to go off that medication if they are incarcerated? I doubt it.

Do people who are prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc get it to cope with previous self-initiated heroin problems?

Dear god.

All of the above could be self initiated health problems yeah. Drug dependence is also a health problem. Methadone is a treatment not a coping mechanism and is not only used to treat heroin dependence. You have no idea how these health problems were initiated and absolutely no right to speculate or judge. What would you like God to do by the way…..bend you over?

I’ve known quite a few people who’ve been dependent on drugs over the years, and I’m not real sympathetic to the “drug dependence is a health problem” point of view. Cancer is a health problem (I miss you Colin). Bone necrosis is a health problem (hang in there Big Sister). Alzheimers is a health problem (so sorry Gladys).

Drug addiction, on the other hand, is a sad result of a narcissistic choice, usually in full knowledge of the consequences, and describing it as a health problem is a self serving distortion of reality. It’s like the “epidemic” of obesity that is sweeping the land. “Oh the poor bugger…he was struck down by an attack of obesity in the prime of his life…what terrible bad luck”. Choosing to cram excess food into your mouth, or drugs into your veins, or booze down your gullet is precisely that, a choice. And that’s a helluva lot different to dying of skin cancer against your will at the age of 32 leaving a wife and kid behind, as I’ve witnessed.

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

“Methadone users?” Methadone is a prescribed controlled drug. Do you call people who “use” prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc “junkies?” for short. Do you expect them to go off that medication if they are incarcerated? I doubt it.

Do people who are prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc get it to cope with previous self-initiated heroin problems?

Dear god.

All of the above could be self initiated health problems yeah. Drug dependence is also a health problem. Methadone is a treatment not a coping mechanism and is not only used to treat heroin dependence. You have no idea how these health problems were initiated and absolutely no right to speculate or judge. What would you like God to do by the way…..bend you over?

Violet68 said :

“Methadone users?” Methadone is a prescribed controlled drug. Do you call people who “use” prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc “junkies?” for short. Do you expect them to go off that medication if they are incarcerated? I doubt it.

Do people who are prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc get it to cope with previous self-initiated heroin problems?

Dear god.

When talking about methadone users, the grouping “methadone users” ( or “junkies”) for short is valid..

“Methadone users?” Methadone is a prescribed controlled drug. Do you call people who “use” prescribed heart medication, antipsychotics, insulin, ventalin etc “junkies?” for short. Do you expect them to go off that medication if they are incarcerated? I doubt it.

Ben_Dover said :

Jim Jones said :

Junkie opt out of society, putting their need to be intoxicated above all other priorities. Your “large
Oh man, you have absolutely no idea, do you? Banging on about the stereotypical ‘junkies’ like you know what you’re talking about and all that ‘they’re not part of society’ crap.

I know far more than you do Jim about the subject, and all your bleeding heart whining won’t change that.

Jim Jones said :

Heroin users (and addicts) – like other drug users and addicts – come from all walks of life: doctors, lawyers, blah blah blah. There are some stereotypical ‘junkies’, but, to be honest, there’s not many of them left in Canberra.

Ah so categorising people by what they do in terms of work is valid, but categorising them by their drug use is not? See what you did there Jim, you just shot yourself square in the foot. Societal groupings are equally valid, depending on the issue you are discussing. When talking about methadone users, the grouping “methadone users” ( or “junkies”) for short is valid..

Jim Jones said :

Why not the uneducated bluster and spittle-flecked rantings for talk-back radio, and actually learn something about what you’re talking about.

I ask the same of you, why not quit the bleeding heart rubbish, and come into the real world? For instance, why not try offering a contrary opinion on the subject, rather than just attacking the poster. (Mind you, the only time you tried that in your post above, you made yourself look very foolish.)

That’s it?

Ra ra bleeding heart ra ra?

Jim Jones said :

Junkie opt out of society, putting their need to be intoxicated above all other priorities. Your “large
Oh man, you have absolutely no idea, do you? Banging on about the stereotypical ‘junkies’ like you know what you’re talking about and all that ‘they’re not part of society’ crap.

I know far more than you do Jim about the subject, and all your bleeding heart whining won’t change that.

Jim Jones said :

Heroin users (and addicts) – like other drug users and addicts – come from all walks of life: doctors, lawyers, blah blah blah. There are some stereotypical ‘junkies’, but, to be honest, there’s not many of them left in Canberra.

Ah so categorising people by what they do in terms of work is valid, but categorising them by their drug use is not? See what you did there Jim, you just shot yourself square in the foot. Societal groupings are equally valid, depending on the issue you are discussing. When talking about methadone users, the grouping “methadone users” ( or “junkies”) for short is valid..

Jim Jones said :

Why not the uneducated bluster and spittle-flecked rantings for talk-back radio, and actually learn something about what you’re talking about.

I ask the same of you, why not quit the bleeding heart rubbish, and come into the real world? For instance, why not try offering a contrary opinion on the subject, rather than just attacking the poster. (Mind you, the only time you tried that in your post above, you made yourself look very foolish.)

qbngeek said :

Jim Jones said :

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

Here we go again! “Druggies” are not part of the general community my arse. Sit outside the Methadone Clinic and observe the diverse range of people who use this service. Not all “druggies” get locked up either……especially the large cross section who can “afford” the drugs WITHOUT having to supplement their incomes through criminal means…..but I suppose they are law abiding “junkies”…….lol

Junkie opt out of society, putting their need to be intoxicated above all other priorities. Your “large cross section” of people who infest the “free drugs on the taxpayer” service contains only one type of person; junkies.

Oh man, you have absolutely no idea, do you? Banging on about the stereotypical ‘junkies’ like you know what you’re talking about and all that ‘they’re not part of society’ crap.

Heroin users (and addicts) – like other drug users and addicts – come from all walks of life: doctors, lawyers, blah blah blah. There are some stereotypical ‘junkies’, but, to be honest, there’s not many of them left in Canberra.

Why not the uneducated bluster and spittle-flecked rantings for talk-back radio, and actually learn something about what you’re talking about.

While I agree with you, the original thread was about the rights of ‘junkies’ who end up in jail, not liklely to be lawyers, doctors etc. If they are allowed to use in prison and then released to the community, is it not just a matter of time until they reoffend?? Why are we not trying harder to rehabilitate them??

Also, I would like a sympathiser to answer this question, if a ‘junkie’ violates my rights by breaking into my house while my wife and kids are there, is it wrong for me to violate their rights with a cricket bat?? I am interested in your point of view given that happened to me a few weeks ago and the scumbag is back on the streets and lives a few streets away from me and cuts through our yard to get to his junkie mates house ariound the corner. Next time he walks across my front yard (inside the property line) have no doubt I will be taking to him with my knuckles. I wuldn’t lose any sleep is the bastard died today…

Okay – the junkies are not ‘allowed to use’ in jail. The sad fact of the matter is that it’s impossible to stop drugs entering and being used in prison.

Drugs exist in all jails. Period.

The needle exchange program, for example, is not an ‘endorsement’ of drug use; it’s an attempt at harm minimisation. It’s also notable that similar programs throughout Australia (and globally) have been cited as a good first step of contacting users and moving them towards rehabilitation and kicking the habit. You can’t force someone to rehabilitate, it requires engagement from both parties.

“if a ‘junkie’ violates my rights by breaking into my house while my wife and kids are there, is it wrong for me to violate their rights with a cricket bat”

I have no idea. Best ask a lawyer about that. Probably has something to do with ‘proportional response’ and self defense. As for “I will be taking to him with my knuckles” – the law tends to frown on common assault, even when it is proposed as some kind of vigilante action. I can understand that you’d be upset and angry, but vigilante justice has a nasty habit of going awry: backfiring or being misdirected.

Jim Jones said :

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

Here we go again! “Druggies” are not part of the general community my arse. Sit outside the Methadone Clinic and observe the diverse range of people who use this service. Not all “druggies” get locked up either……especially the large cross section who can “afford” the drugs WITHOUT having to supplement their incomes through criminal means…..but I suppose they are law abiding “junkies”…….lol

Junkie opt out of society, putting their need to be intoxicated above all other priorities. Your “large cross section” of people who infest the “free drugs on the taxpayer” service contains only one type of person; junkies.

Oh man, you have absolutely no idea, do you? Banging on about the stereotypical ‘junkies’ like you know what you’re talking about and all that ‘they’re not part of society’ crap.

Heroin users (and addicts) – like other drug users and addicts – come from all walks of life: doctors, lawyers, blah blah blah. There are some stereotypical ‘junkies’, but, to be honest, there’s not many of them left in Canberra.

Why not the uneducated bluster and spittle-flecked rantings for talk-back radio, and actually learn something about what you’re talking about.

While I agree with you, the original thread was about the rights of ‘junkies’ who end up in jail, not liklely to be lawyers, doctors etc. If they are allowed to use in prison and then released to the community, is it not just a matter of time until they reoffend?? Why are we not trying harder to rehabilitate them??

Also, I would like a sympathiser to answer this question, if a ‘junkie’ violates my rights by breaking into my house while my wife and kids are there, is it wrong for me to violate their rights with a cricket bat?? I am interested in your point of view given that happened to me a few weeks ago and the scumbag is back on the streets and lives a few streets away from me and cuts through our yard to get to his junkie mates house ariound the corner. Next time he walks across my front yard (inside the property line) have no doubt I will be taking to him with my knuckles. I wuldn’t lose any sleep is the bastard died today…

Ben_Dover said :

Violet68 said :

Here we go again! “Druggies” are not part of the general community my arse. Sit outside the Methadone Clinic and observe the diverse range of people who use this service. Not all “druggies” get locked up either……especially the large cross section who can “afford” the drugs WITHOUT having to supplement their incomes through criminal means…..but I suppose they are law abiding “junkies”…….lol

Junkie opt out of society, putting their need to be intoxicated above all other priorities. Your “large cross section” of people who infest the “free drugs on the taxpayer” service contains only one type of person; junkies.

Oh man, you have absolutely no idea, do you? Banging on about the stereotypical ‘junkies’ like you know what you’re talking about and all that ‘they’re not part of society’ crap.

Heroin users (and addicts) – like other drug users and addicts – come from all walks of life: doctors, lawyers, blah blah blah. There are some stereotypical ‘junkies’, but, to be honest, there’s not many of them left in Canberra.

Why not the uneducated bluster and spittle-flecked rantings for talk-back radio, and actually learn something about what you’re talking about.

Violet68 said :

Here we go again! “Druggies” are not part of the general community my arse. Sit outside the Methadone Clinic and observe the diverse range of people who use this service. Not all “druggies” get locked up either……especially the large cross section who can “afford” the drugs WITHOUT having to supplement their incomes through criminal means…..but I suppose they are law abiding “junkies”…….lol

Junkie opt out of society, putting their need to be intoxicated above all other priorities. Your “large cross section” of people who infest the “free drugs on the taxpayer” service contains only one type of person; junkies.

I-filed said :

With Katie “I want to consult with the drug-using community” Gallagher in charge, it will be open slather and tolerance re hard drugs on the part of government. No need to get off the horse when the chief minister puts druggies’ views ahead of those of the general community.

Here we go again! “Druggies” are not part of the general community my arse. Sit outside the Methadone Clinic and observe the diverse range of people who use this service. Not all “druggies” get locked up either……especially the large cross section who can “afford” the drugs WITHOUT having to supplement their incomes through criminal means…..but I suppose they are law abiding “junkies”…….lol

With Katie “I want to consult with the drug-using community” Gallagher in charge, it will be open slather and tolerance re hard drugs on the part of government. No need to get off the horse when the chief minister puts druggies’ views ahead of those of the general community.

dixyland said :

Is it a human right for junkies to break into my house and steal s*** to get money for heroin? Am I breaking their human rights by alarming my house after those bastards broke into my house?

The administrators at AMC needs to harden up and rehab junkie prisoners, not condone drug use in the gaol.

They should heavily search everyone who visits, supervise the visits and at least attempt to help the junkies rehab. All they do now is enable them.

You obviously haven’t visited the AMC lately.

Is it a human right for junkies to break into my house and steal s*** to get money for heroin? Am I breaking their human rights by alarming my house after those bastards broke into my house?

The administrators at AMC needs to harden up and rehab junkie prisoners, not condone drug use in the gaol.

They should heavily search everyone who visits, supervise the visits and at least attempt to help the junkies rehab. All they do now is enable them.

johnboy said :

Violet68 said :

Keep them in gaol and further crime against the community won’t be a problem, will it…

Yeah……jails have made so much headway in addressing criminal behaviour.

very effective in protecting the wider community as long as they’re inside though.

Simple way of putting it I suppose. I don’t know how protected the wider community is when people who don’t fit the boxes are excluded even further from it. Can’t keep them “inside” forever.

Violet68 said :

Keep them in gaol and further crime against the community won’t be a problem, will it…

Yeah……jails have made so much headway in addressing criminal behaviour.

very effective in protecting the wider community as long as they’re inside though.

Keep them in gaol and further crime against the community won’t be a problem, will it…

Yeah……jails have made so much headway in addressing criminal behaviour.

Violet68 said :

Yeah, a whole half second from being confronted and being stuck…

Exactly. I curious how the person who *may* get stuck is able to tell whether it’s a ‘confrontation’ or ‘sticking’.

Anyone who ‘confronts’ someone with a needle deserves to be locked away anyway.

Exactly. Thanks for the confirmation…….a world of difference between “confronting” and “sticking”

Yeah, a whole half second from being confronted and being stuck…

Exactly. I curious how the person who *may* get stuck is able to tell whether it’s a ‘confrontation’ or ‘sticking’.

Anyone who ‘confronts’ someone with a needle deserves to be locked away anyway.

Well “sticking” usually involves some form of breaking the skin wouldn’t you think? That would have to occur to transfer HIV which is not AIDS.

And yes, lock them all away……that’ll fix em for sure. Just forget about the “prescribed methadone” they are encouraged to become dependent on when out in the community and withdraw that completely in jail. I’m sure that would stop any further illicit drugs being bought in…….not. Then sit around whingeing about how much it all costs taxpayers and how there’s so much recidivism.

Keep them in gaol and further crime against the community won’t be a problem, will it…

Violet68 said :

The prisoner was in the Crisis Support Unit. Ever think he may have been trying to stockpile his methadone to end his own life? Nah, these stupid people have no feelings, no problems, no worth. No wonder they end up with no hope.

And how does one get methadone in jail at the taxpayers expense? By becoming a junk addict. But don’t let me stop you from pursuing your crusade to absolve every ner do well of any shred of personal responsibility.

Ben_Dover said :

milkman said :

Translation: prisoners are allowed to handle methadone unsupervised, and/or methadone is not accounted for.

Translation: “Prison is full of stupid drug using oafs, do not accept orange juice off anyone.”

The prisoner was in the Crisis Support Unit. Ever think he may have been trying to stockpile his methadone to end his own life? Nah, these stupid people have no feelings, no problems, no worth. No wonder they end up with no hope.

Yeah, a whole half second from being confronted and being stuck…

Exactly. I curious how the person who *may* get stuck is able to tell whether it’s a ‘confrontation’ or ‘sticking’.

Anyone who ‘confronts’ someone with a needle deserves to be locked away anyway.

Exactly. Thanks for the confirmation…….a world of difference between “confronting” and “sticking”

Yeah, a whole half second from being confronted and being stuck…

Exactly. I curious how the person who *may* get stuck is able to tell whether it’s a ‘confrontation’ or ‘sticking’.

Anyone who ‘confronts’ someone with a needle deserves to be locked away anyway.

Well “sticking” usually involves some form of breaking the skin wouldn’t you think? That would have to occur to transfer HIV which is not AIDS.

And yes, lock them all away……that’ll fix em for sure. Just forget about the “prescribed methadone” they are encouraged to become dependent on when out in the community and withdraw that completely in jail. I’m sure that would stop any further illicit drugs being bought in…….not. Then sit around whingeing about how much it all costs taxpayers and how there’s so much recidivism.

Tooks said :

Violet68 said :

milkman said :

Violet68 said :

How do you “die of AIDS” after being “confronted” with a needle?

Because the fruit loop holding the needle decides to stick you with it.

Exactly. Thanks for the confirmation…….a world of difference between “confronting” and “sticking”

Yeah, a whole half second from being confronted and being stuck…

Exactly. I curious how the person who *may* get stuck is able to tell whether it’s a ‘confrontation’ or ‘sticking’.

Anyone who ‘confronts’ someone with a needle deserves to be locked away anyway.

Violet68 said :

milkman said :

Violet68 said :

How do you “die of AIDS” after being “confronted” with a needle?

Because the fruit loop holding the needle decides to stick you with it.

Exactly. Thanks for the confirmation…….a world of difference between “confronting” and “sticking”

Yeah, a whole half second from being confronted and being stuck…

milkman said :

Translation: prisoners are allowed to handle methadone unsupervised, and/or methadone is not accounted for.

Translation: “Prison is full of stupid drug using oafs, do not accept orange juice off anyone.”

I heard a certain prisoner was standing over other crims on methadone, and taking not only his but theirs off them for himself.

wildturkeycanoe8:04 pm 20 Sep 11

Going to jail is supposed to be about taking away your civil liberties, to teach you not to do it again. To keep on giving you the same “pleasures” you had on the outside defeats the purpose of incarceration. Cold turkey, that’s what they deserve after doing the crime.

milkman said :

Violet68 said :

How do you “die of AIDS” after being “confronted” with a needle?

Because the fruit loop holding the needle decides to stick you with it.

Exactly. Thanks for the confirmation…….a world of difference between “confronting” and “sticking”

Violet68 said :

How do you “die of AIDS” after being “confronted” with a needle?

Because the fruit loop holding the needle decides to stick you with it.

http://citynews.com.au/2011/news/nurses-reject-prison-needles/

“They’ve pointed to a case in NSW where a prison worker died of AIDS after being confronted with a needle”.
How do you “die of AIDS” after being “confronted” with a needle?
Explains my weight increase after being “confronted” with chocolate………

To assist in their ‘rehabilitation’, why don’t we use these good folk to build that damn Majura Road extension? It will save the 2 guys currently doing the GDE a lot of time – and money!

Translation: prisoners are allowed to handle methadone unsupervised, and/or methadone is not accounted for.

Damn, if I was granted immunity for violation of prisoners’ human rights, I’d make AMC the toughest prison.;-)

Fair point. I look forward to results of 6 months, 3 million dollars and lots of buck passing to summarise in ‘it wont happen again’

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