A more glorious dawn awaits Katy's new smoking laws

Buzz2600 said :

The Dark said :

just wondering, can anyone ELSE who’s thinking of using this thread just to bag on smokers some more just p*ss off?

Seriously, do we really offend you that much? Is this one thing that we do really THAT awful?

Hahahahaha!

It’s a glorious day for or all us NON-smokers who have had to put up with your putrid, offensive stink for way too long. We can now enjoy the fresh outdoors while eating a drinking. Woo Hoo!

Is there a law to stop someone standing next to the table where you sit outside in the cafe and having a cigarette??

As a non-smoker, with many smoking friends, this really pisses me off.

I’ve said for ages that we should leave it up to the cafes/clubs/pubs/whatever to advertise whether they allow smoking or not, and let the people decide which they’ll go to.

Apparently that’s too difficult so instead we get strong armed.

I do wonder where the extra taxes would come from if everyone gave up smoking….

What I’ll never understand is why people still take up the habit armed with the knowledge of what damage is caused by smoking. I guess it’s still considered cool to the young ‘uns.

I’m not a smoker, but to be honest, sitting outside with smokers doesn’t bother me too much. I guess eventually the smokers will only be allowed to smoke in their own homes; it’s only a matter of time.

I think that as mentioned in the original article the biggest loser out of all this are the clubs who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on some pretty major renovations to comply with the laws of the time.

I think it should be a 1000 dollar, on the spot fine for people that throw cigarette butts on the ground. The aggregation of cigarette butts in public places annoys me far more than smoking does. It’s almost as if smokers think they have a right to litter.
I welcome the ever shrinking rights of smokers. I used to cheer when smokes got more expensive and then was disheartened to realise that somewhere, some kid won’t get enough to eat because mummy and daddy need to spend more on smokes now.
I hate that organisations make money out of the frailities of human beings and that these same human beings fight to be allowed to do so. Of the two people who I’ve seen die from smoking induced diseases, both of them bitterly regretted smoking at the end, when it did them the least good. Smoking has never improved the lives of any smokers. It’s sure degraded the lives of more than just inhalers. So if you smoke, continue to cling to the hope that you won’t be affected by it. You’ll most likely eventually live to regret it, but probably not for very long after you’ve changed your mind. You’ll eventually serve as a bad example to the future generations that wondered how humans could be so stupid.

The Dark said :

just wondering, can anyone ELSE who’s thinking of using this thread just to bag on smokers some more just p*ss off?

Seriously, do we really offend you that much? Is this one thing that we do really THAT awful?

Hahahahaha!

It’s a glorious day for or all us NON-smokers who have had to put up with your putrid, offensive stink for way too long. We can now enjoy the fresh outdoors while eating a drinking. Woo Hoo!

Brianna, short answer, the govt saying what the taxes are used for is probably not going to happen, but as far as the taxes coming in, tobacco tax equates to about 2.5% of government and state revenue. The government (state and federal combined make 5.5 billion per year in taxes from smokers. The impact on the medical system of smokers (not the “total cost of smoking” as often reported by anti smoking groups,but including medical hospital, nursing home and pharmaceutical) is 1 billion per year.
As far as smokers being denied free health care, I’m ok with that actually, just show me what the other 4 billion I and other smokers are putting in to the economy does for us. Alternately, feel free to thank the smokers for the 4 billion they are putting towards the free health care for non smokers.
BTW, all the stats come from ABS and ATO.

The Dark said :

just wondering, can anyone ELSE who’s thinking of using this thread just to bag on smokers some more just p*ss off?

Seriously, do we really offend you that much? Is this one thing that we do really THAT awful?

On a more productive note does the introduction of this new law mean that if I get enough people together to complain about something that a minority of people does near me at any given time at a cafe/restaurant/whatever then we as the majority can get it outlawed even if the ‘medical evidence’ proves it doesn’t really have any affect on me? Do we have the right to do that now?

Speaking of which, something I’ve noticed lately is the large number of public servant type ladies that come Friday night make there way to pubs around Canberra and sit in the beer garden (around smokers, by choice), consume a small amount of alcohol and then proceed to scream stories/gossip/etc at each other, which then turns into a barrage of laughter.

MAYBE WE SHOULD BAN PEOPLE DRINKING OR TALKING LOUDLY OR LAUGHING TOO MUCH OR GENERALLY ENJOYING AN OUTDOOR EATING/DRINKING AREA AS IT IS MEANT TO BE ENJOYED, WOULD THAT BE AN OK NEXT STEP FOR RIDICULE AND EVENTUAL OUTLAWING NOW?

Maaate. Drinking and loud coversation or laughter doesn’t leave me smelling like a stale ashtray for the rest of the evening, nor do I have to have my suit or other clothing dry cleaned to get the stench out. You ask if what you do is that awful? No, I don’t think it is that awful; however, I certainly don’t want to be subjected to your second hand smoke – not so much for health reasons, but for clenliness and personal hygene reasons.

I can recall one busy evening recently out the front of King O’Malleys where for some reason, all the smokers appeared to light up at the same time. It was like fog and very hard on the lungs and eyes. I eventually went inside – which was a shame, because it was a lovely evening outside. The fact of the matter is that I shouldn’t have had to move. If the people next to me had been arguing or fighting I wouldn’t have had to move – the bouncers would have ejected them quick smart.

I am sure you would get upset if you were trying to have a refreshing beer with your girl or bloke one Friday evening when all of a sudden, you are surrounded by five drinkers reeking of BO. It is the same thing. Would you move from your comfortable drinking possie because of that? I would hazard a guess and say probably not. The management would usually have the right to ask the BO people to leave if enough complaints were made, as it imposes on the reasonable enjoyment of others. The alternative of course is that all the clean people leave the area and the five BO brothers have the beer garden to themselves – hmmmmm, I don’t see the fairness or logic there.

Most licensed establishments have some form of dress regulation and code of conduct that its patrons must obey if they want to drink in the establishment. Nobody kicks up a stink about that, because it is designed for the comfort of the majority of the patrons. I can’t see how this is different, aside from the emotion which is attached to Government telling us what we can and can’t do, which is all part of governing.

In the 80’s and early 90’s, the majority of the people I socialised with and family smoked. There were only one or two (out of say 30) who didn’t. Now the opposite is true, so may I suggest that the majority has spoken????

Anyway like I have alluded to, I don’t begrudge smokers the right to have a darb or 10 free 10 minute smoke breaks per day; I do however applaud the decision.

Chaz said :

the thing that bothers me is that a bunch of my friends are extremely happy that they can now go for a run in the morning and have lunch with out breathing in smoke.
all the while they are supporting slave labour with their fancy nike runners and drinking bought water shipped from overseas etc etc. i’m sure their days outfit has caused more harm & suffering that the smoker causes in their lifetime.

+1

(BTW Chaz, that funny key with the up arrow on it makes letters BIG. They’re for starting sentences.)

I look forward to it.

Smokers are ADDICTS and should be treated as such…

Parkway Parker said :

Now, what about other departments (aside from the Dept of Health) banning smoking within 15 metres of the building and no smoko breaks?

Department of Innovation has had a smoke free workplace policy since 06.

Best news I have heard ALL YEAR!!

Brilliant.

If I wanted to smoke, I would be a smoker. Why should eating in cafes and restaurants with outdoor seating be solely for smokers?

I have no problem with people choosing to smoke. Go nuts. But I should be able to live my life without someone else inflicting their chosen drug addiction on me.

Get the news smokers. If you can’t or won’t keep your smoke to yourself then be prepared to be banned from all public places very soon.

If you started smoking in the last 30 years, then tough titties. there have been ample education programs warning you of the dangers to yourself and to others. You had plenty of time to think about it and now the State has decreed that people especially like you can stay at home and not inflict your rubbish on the rest of the public.

BTW, have the clubs eg Hellenic, lost that much revenue due to smake bans?

Orright, cue the person whinging about nanny state stuff, but…

I don’t smoke and haven’t for about a decade. Nonetheless, I think this is a matter for venues and their patrons. If we’re happy to let the glorious invisible hand of the market work its magic over just about every other area of our lives, shouldn’t we at least be vaguely consistent? What about another argument: if venues want to let people smoke in outdoor areas, then let them. If people don’t want to go to those venues, then that’s fine. Piss off and go somewhere else. People will vote with their feet.

Why don’t we also have compulsory speed limiters in cars, ban all swings and climbing equipment in children’s playgrounds, and pass laws preventing people from entering national parks in case they bump their heads on a low hanging branch? Perhaps we should ban swimming in the ocean in case people get caught in rips. At the end of the day, we’re meant to live in a society that promotes individual liberty and responsibility, as well as a few social democratic principles designed to pick up the pieces and spread risk when things go pear shaped, to provide essential services and correct market failure, or provide economies of scale that can only be done at a societal level (e.g. building roads, providing hospital services etc).

This 50% + 1 populist nanny state shit is turning Australia, and Canberra in particular, even more beige.

Jb, don’t go dropping Sagan references where he isn’t needed…

I am an ex smoker. I used to smoke about 65 a day and quit 17 years ago. To be perfectly honest the cigarette smoke doesn’t bother me at all. I sit with smokers and chat. No worries.
I will take the government more seriously when they show the general public a break down on how much tax they get from tobacco and what it is used for. I would also like to see a breakdown on the tax from alcohol and what that is used for as well.
I think it would be very interesting reading.

just wondering, can anyone ELSE who’s thinking of using this thread just to bag on smokers some more just p*ss off?

Seriously, do we really offend you that much? Is this one thing that we do really THAT awful?

On a more productive note does the introduction of this new law mean that if I get enough people together to complain about something that a minority of people does near me at any given time at a cafe/restaurant/whatever then we as the majority can get it outlawed even if the ‘medical evidence’ proves it doesn’t really have any affect on me? Do we have the right to do that now?

Speaking of which, something I’ve noticed lately is the large number of public servant type ladies that come Friday night make there way to pubs around Canberra and sit in the beer garden (around smokers, by choice), consume a small amount of alcohol and then proceed to scream stories/gossip/etc at each other, which then turns into a barrage of laughter.

MAYBE WE SHOULD BAN PEOPLE DRINKING OR TALKING LOUDLY OR LAUGHING TOO MUCH OR GENERALLY ENJOYING AN OUTDOOR EATING/DRINKING AREA AS IT IS MEANT TO BE ENJOYED, WOULD THAT BE AN OK NEXT STEP FOR RIDICULE AND EVENTUAL OUTLAWING NOW?

Hurray!

Now, what about other departments (aside from the Dept of Health) banning smoking within 15 metres of the building and no smoko breaks?

good luck to these smokers finding a smoking area – I feel there won’t be any.

WOOHOO!!!!

At last, fresh air while I’m out dining al fresco.

Now all we need to do is get rid of the sweaty smelly cyclists! (TIC)

screaming banshee said :

Fantastic, smokers can all piss off somewhere else if they dont like it and shouldn’t be eligible for free health care either.

And non-smokers have always been free to piss off to venues that don’t permit smoking instead of forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

Yay. Today I was literally choking on smoke flowing in from the outside eating area into the Cocorea doorway. Let’s see how well the law is followed tomorrow!

So the money bars and clubs spent on constructing the <75% enclosed &covered spaces to satisfy the 2003 Law and 2005 Regs will never achieve a return on investment?
Do traders just accept the dead space until they can re-renovate and make it cost effective again?
(Or should they just carry the grudge until the next election?)

And who will pay for the increased compliance inspectors/police enforcement resources to prevent operators from having an informal smokeeasy if they think they can get away with it?
Oh right, not Katy herself, just that neverending bucket of money, taxpayers.

i’m not a smoker but i think this law is a way over the top.
i can’t see this impacting health on the community, although i’m sure we’ll see some numbers from somewhere saying it is.

the thing that bothers me is that a bunch of my friends are extremely happy that they can now go for a run in the morning and have lunch with out breathing in smoke.
all the while they are supporting slave labour with their fancy nike runners and drinking bought water shipped from overseas etc etc. i’m sure their days outfit has caused more harm & suffering that the smoker causes in their lifetime.

Excellent news indeed.

A few questions?
Who is enforcing the laws? Will it be the same folk who do liquor licencing once every couple of months?
Also, the fine for a business is 1100 for letting a person smoke, in a nonDOSA area, does any one know if that is per person or for a group (if you are allowing 100 people to smoke in your venue are you charged $1,100 or $110,000?)
Just asking as I looked at starting a pub / club for smokers a few years back, in NYC they tend to be known as Smoke-easys, as a ex bouncer / bartender who smokes with a lot of hospitality mates who smoke, we’d be more than happy to work it (plus it would save going out for smoke breaks) there is a clear market for it, and it keeps all us filthy smokers away from the clean air breathers.

Fantastic, smokers can all piss off somewhere else if they dont like it and shouldn’t be eligible for free health care either.

Best thing I can ever recall this government doing!

Case in point is Dobinsons on Bunda Street. You have cyclists, gym goers and mums with babies meeting there in the morning, all breathing the smoke of people trying to cram in as many ciggies as possible in their break.

Cue the chorus of smokers talking about rights, freedom, taxes etc – like they won a civil war that entitles them to smoke.

OT – I am torn between irritation at the nanny state, and smug satisfaction that I won’t have to sit near smokers any more.

Great news – about time.