19 October 2010

A whole new hospital to bypass Calvary

| johnboy
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The ACT Government has spent millions upgrading the Catholic Church’s Calvary Hospital for public use (except for things the church doesn’t like but which are entirely legal).

Today in the Canberra Times John Thistleton reports that following the aborted buyout process the ACT Government is now looking to build a North Canberra hospital:

The ACT Government is considering building a third public hospital in Canberra’s north, possibly at Gungahlin Town Centre, or the University of Canberra.

Difficulties over the past year redeveloping the Canberra Hospital and the protracted debate over buying and refurbishing Calvary Hospital are shaping ACT Treasury and Health’s thinking on the issue.

Apparently they’re looking to have a decision by the next budget.

On the other hand this might light a fire under the Little Company of Mary’s bums about selling Calvary Hospital while it’s worth a lot more.

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Gungahlin Al9:47 am 22 Oct 10

Here is the info I sent Katy on a third hospital in Gungahlin, for anyone who’s interested. Sorry I was late into this discussion. Busy times…

The third hospital in Gungahlin is an idea we have been floating for the best part of a year now, through our newsletter and on our website and (rapidly growing) Facebook page, plus through several media interviews.

The land in question is shown in the Territory Plan extract on this page, together with our thoughts on why it makes sense: http://www.gcc.asn.au/News/Planning-development/gungahlin-3rd-hospital.html

You’ll see the article has been read by over 600 people (800+ now). We’ve had strong support for the idea through our Facebook page too, and no negative comments (other than “it’ll never happen”).

We are concerned that the 40-50,000 new people into Molonglo will push Garran and Calvary to their limits. Add in another 50-60,000 people still to come in Gungahlin, and those two hospitals simply won’t be enough. The disturbances while trying to redevelop the sites over and over will cause uproars. You can start from scratch in Gungahlin. And it isn’t like we are a long way from anywhere. The town centre is just 6 minutes from Dickson. Even now with all the Gungahlin Drive roadworks going on, it is still quicker at peak hour to drive from Gungahlin to Woden than Gungahlin to Civic.

Then there is the issue of the desperate need for an employment base in Gungahlin. We managed to get ACTPLA to reserve the land – step 1. Now we need tenants. We understand that the ACT Government would want to centralise most of its core operations (although we were bitterly disappointed the LDA wasn’t moved out here where most of their business is for the foreseeable future).

But a hospital is not something you’d put in Civic. And it would be brilliant for the employees of a hospital to be right next to a fully-serviced town centre, as opposed to being a little out in the boonies and locked into using just the on-site facilities, which usually milk the captive market.

So instead of hanging out for the possibility of Federal Government office block to kick things off, this is one way the ACT Government can inject jobs into Gungahlin that would ensure it does not remain a dormitory area – with all the massively expensive implications for all Canberrans of the transport infrastructure you’d have to build if we all continue to have to commute out every day. Once the land was committed to a hospital, other investors would swoop on the adjacent land, and Gungahlin town centre’s future would be set. You’d probably get a far higher price for these adjacent office and retail blocks too, not to mention for nearby residential land releases.

Also, as I mentioned in my statement to the budget estimates, we have some concerns about whether it is appropriate for a publicly funded hospital (Calvary) to impose restrictions on certain treatments due to the religious beliefs of the management, which may well not correspond to the beliefs (or otherwise) of a large proportion of the public user base.

The ACTPLA staff are wrapping up the Territory Plan variations for the Town Centre Master Plan. It would be good to get in quick and reserve half of that 40 hectare site for the new hospital.

Gungahlin Al6:32 am 21 Oct 10

Huh. Just looked at the online version of the article, and realised it cuts out the entire GCC-related content that was the core of the print version article…

Yes, let’s leave the nuns to ministering to Catholics, and have a secular public health facility that provides safe abortions.

Gungahlin Al6:50 pm 20 Oct 10

Neither did I Sepi. But that’s another story.

This whole issue stemmed from the lobbying Gungahlin Community Council has done to bring a third hospital to Gungahlin, which started in April this year, here: http://www.gcc.asn.au/News/Planning-development/gungahlin-3rd-hospital.html and here: http://www.gcc.asn.au/images/Gunsmoke/2010/issue_117.pdf as well as through a number of media interviews I have done with 2CC and ABC Radio, the Chronicle and Gungahlin News, plus on our rapidly growing Facebook page facebook.com/gungahlin.

We’ve had a lot of positive feedback about our idea, but usually along the lines of “Fantastic idea. But it’ll never happen.”

As a result of a more recent media story about our idea, I received a message from Katy Gallagher asking for more information about our proposal, which I provided, much in line with what is in the above article. I also included some discussion about the reality that we have another 40-50,000 people coming to Molonglo and 50-60,000 people coming to Gungahlin (you could toss in Googong and possibly Tralee on top of that but I didn’t think of it!). Our thoughts were that neither hospital could be expanded to cope with this growth without needing substantial reconstruction, with all the grief that causes, such as has been happening at Garran recently.

Katy asked us to a meeting to talk about it more. As it turned out I was in Queensland as my mother passed away, so I had the meeting with Katy by phone. She explained that she had asked the Health planners to update their population projects, and what they realised was that (as close as I can recall the exact words Katy used) “if we only have two hospitals, we face them both being construction sites for the forseeable future, and that is not an appealing prospect.” I concur…

I explained about how much better it would be to attract new staff into the area if they could promote living, working and shopping all within a treddly ride of each other, plus a hospital where staff and patients aren’t being fleeced by the one on-site food outlet because there’s a whole town centre next door. And not having everyone commuting out of Gungahlin every day is good for all ACT taxpayers – roads are bloody expensive.

Katy explained that she had asked LAPS to identify potential sites. LAPS identified the UC co-location, the corner of Gungahlin Drv and Kellaway, Nicholls (which I scotched based on lack of public transport and businesses, plus impact on residents), and the exact blocks we have been talking about in the Gungahlin Town Centre. She also asked about what sort of reception the idea would get in the Gungahlin community. Positive, I said, in somewhat more words.

I talked with John Thistleton about the discussion last week and he rang back Monday to talk through the issues. And it is good to see that John’s CT article confirms that the ACT Govt is taking the idea seriously, and is to make a decision on it before the next budget.

So it comes down to at UC so it can be close to med students, or at Gungahlin so it can be close to patients and staff.

This is a watershed moment for Gungahlin – it would ‘define the town centre’ as a leading planning person said to me today.

So now it is over to Gungahlin residents and business operators. You need to be writing to the government and your local MLAs and get behind the idea.

I did not find my Calvary hospital stay to be a good one.

As for improving the hospitals we have – the article above states that continuing to improve the Woden hospital, instead of building a new one will just mean the hospital is a permanent building site. And why do improvements on Calvary when it is owned by a religious corporation and there is no agreement on who would own any improvements?

I am not saying that Canberra doesn’t need a new public hospital, although I would have thought making the two public hospitals we have now better, should be our priority.

As for Calvary (Public) Hospital, we have used their maternity, emergency, pastoral care and endoscopy services over the years, and their level of service, expertise and compassion have been amazing. Rather than bagging the hospital simply because it is operated by a Catholic health care provider, I think we should celebrate the richness in health care this hospital has provided to the ACT community over many years.

It all goes back to Kate Carnell and that implosion …

kakosi said :

Calvary is already a public hospital – with some private services.

I’ve had a great deal of recent experience with both Calvary and the Canberra hospital in Woden. In terms of management and organisation (as well as safety) Calvary is far better run and the staff in the wards and emergency areas are more willing to actually take care of patient’s needs.

I hope they never sell out to the ACT government because it’s obvious from the mess at the Woden hospital that public administration in Canberra is dangerously incompetent. Every time the ambulance takes a family member to Woden I hold my breath and hope they don’t make another life-threatening mistake.

I also have had great deal of experiences at Calvary from the Birth of my children to the recent death of my mother..I have nothing but praise for the Staff at Calvary Hospital and bad, very bad experiences at Woden. Religion was never a factor. I am not Catholic. But the caring Nuns have always been there to help and to even pray when needed. I am never going to knock any help from anywhere when life is in the balance.

Maybe we just need a Hospital at Gungahlin and 1 at Tuggeranong or is that too simple an idea.

The difference in the Hospitals is the Management and it shows. Woden Hospital not even on my death bed.

sepi said :

More space – they can build it right to start with, including stacks of parking.

Makes sense to me. There must be a spot with good road access, just far enough from the town centre that pay parking won’t be necessary any time soon to discourage office workers (assuming that’s why they have pay parking at TCH these days).

Gungahlin makes sense to me.

More space – they can build it right to start with, including stacks of parking.

And it would make sense to have some traffic going into Gungahlin, instead of yet more traffic to Belco.

And the Corporation of Mary can keep on catholicising health care in Belconnen.

kakosi said :

I’ve had a great deal of recent experience with both Calvary and the Canberra hospital in Woden. In terms of management and organisation (as well as safety) Calvary is far better run and the staff in the wards and emergency areas are more willing to actually take care of patient’s needs.

I’ve been admitted to & an out-patient at both in the last 12 months.

I live in Belconnen and Calvary is closeby but given a choice I’d go to Woden.

Today in the Canberra Times John Thistleton reports that following the aborted buyout process the ACT Government is now looking to build a North Canberra hospital:

How did that happen at Calvary?

I’m glad someone appreciated that.

Why go to the expense? We already own Calvary. Give the Large Multinational Corporation of Mary their marching orders. There’s a reason that it’s the most expensive hospital in Australia, and it has nothing to do with medical care.

pptvb said :

deye said :

If they do build another one I think Gungahlin would be a better option than at UC.

Why?
To better serve Gungahlinites only?

As Nanzan said, UC is too close to Calvary.

Roughly speaking you could look at it this way, in an emergency everything Woden and south goes to Woden. Everything from Woden (including the new suburbs going in north of Weston) up to about Ginnindera drive goes to Calvary. Everything North of there goes to Gungahlin.

Although looked at that way you could then put another private or public hospital own Tuggeranong way.

Calvary is already a public hospital – with some private services.

I’ve had a great deal of recent experience with both Calvary and the Canberra hospital in Woden. In terms of management and organisation (as well as safety) Calvary is far better run and the staff in the wards and emergency areas are more willing to actually take care of patient’s needs.

I hope they never sell out to the ACT government because it’s obvious from the mess at the Woden hospital that public administration in Canberra is dangerously incompetent. Every time the ambulance takes a family member to Woden I hold my breath and hope they don’t make another life-threatening mistake.

Sounds like the government is starting to realise that the recognition of the hospital on its balance sheet is not an legal right to ownership of Calvary.

A new hospital is not such a bad idea, given that Calvary must be 40 odd years old. While Gungahlin is being touted as a possible location, I don’t think it’s a viable option due to it not being central enough to all areas of the north. An extra 10 minutes in the ambulance wouldn’t be a good thing for most people.

UC would be somewhat logical, location is fine and as its controlled by the ACT Government, the government owns the land. But UC probably would want it there anyway to get more students through the door to stop the federal government turning it into a vocational education provider.

Well Amanda and grumpyrhonda, you obviously have not seen the patients that frequent Calvary on a regular basis.

grumpyrhonda8:39 pm 19 Oct 10

Amanda Hugankis said :

So one day … an ambulance arrives at Calvary hospital. Two nuns, Sister Catherine and Sister Helen, step out to greet the patient in the back, when they see he’s covered in tatts and has an eyebrow stud, an Alice Cooper t-shirt on, and a pentacle shaved into the side of his head.

“Quick, quick!” shouts Sister Catherine. “What shall we do?”

“Show him your cross,” says Sister Helen. “Now you’re talking,” says Sister Catherine.

She runs over to the guy on the gurney and shouts, “Get the f*** away from our hospital!”

Big thumbs up!

UC would be an interesting location for a hospital indeed. UC has the worst disabled access in Canberra. Including in very new buildings, such as building 6/7 where the cleaners are locking the disabled toilets because they can’t be bothered cleaning them. And there’s virtually no signage indicating where the wheelchair bound should navigate. Such as when you pass building 1 and there are steep steps and no incline. There are whole buildings – recently built – with steep stairs and no lift (like building 1).

Golden-Alpine7:22 pm 19 Oct 10

The Gungahlin Community Council suggested this idea awhile back. This is a great idea. There is plenty of land available to build a hospital/medical precinct. This could be properly planned and designed from scratch.

The land currently available is zoned for commercial but we really don’t need anymore commercial space in canberra. Gungahlin does need some viable employment base however to further grow.

To answer pptvb question:
“deye said :

“If they do build another one I think Gungahlin would be a better option than at UC.”

Why?
To better serve Gungahlinites only?”

As nanzan has pointed out UC is only minutes down the road from Calvary, why have 2 hospitals so close when there is another option. Gungahlin is the fastest growing area in Canberra and this hosptial/medical precinct could support Gungalhin, Belconnen and North Canberra (Watson, Downer etc.).

I think this is a fantastic idea and excited by the Government actually thinking logically for once.

Amanda Hugankis4:18 pm 19 Oct 10

So one day … an ambulance arrives at Calvary hospital. Two nuns, Sister Catherine and Sister Helen, step out to greet the patient in the back, when they see he’s covered in tatts and has an eyebrow stud, an Alice Cooper t-shirt on, and a pentacle shaved into the side of his head.

“Quick, quick!” shouts Sister Catherine. “What shall we do?”

“Show him your cross,” says Sister Helen. “Now you’re talking,” says Sister Catherine.

She runs over to the guy on the gurney and shouts, “Get the f*** away from our hospital!”

Calvary Hospital – public and private – is only five minutes drive from the University of Canberra (maybe 10 minutes on a bus). Why is UC being considered at all as a site?

deye said :

If they do build another one I think Gungahlin would be a better option than at UC.

Why?
To better serve Gungahlinites only?

It’s a bit oddly close to Calvary, but UC does have heaps of land and a lot of student nurses who’d probably like to do on-campus placements.

pollyanna said :

Try to buy Calvary but before they accept we discover we really own it.

I thought god owned it?

If they do build another one I think Gungahlin would be a better option than at UC.

Self government is amazing.

Pre self government we have two public hospitals and Calvary.

Get self Govt. and explosively demolish one public hospital killing an innocent girl.

Decide we need a second public hospital (after all).

Try to buy Calvary but before they accept we discover we really own it.

Now: build a second public hospital (back to where we started but a billion or so down).

I dont get it but it must be fun for the toy politicians.

It sounds good, whatever the purpose. If it’s a negotiating tactic, it should work. If it’s for real, well it’d be good for Gungahlin surely? Good for local business, might prompt an upgrade of infrastucture? Mind you I think Belconnen would be more central for North Canberra, but maybe the land in Gunghalin is cheaper. And it has to be a good thing if we get a hospital that’s not linked to religious groups!

Amanda Hugankis said :

p1 – its not going to take ten years to build a hospital!

Its going to take FIVE years to build HALF a hospital, and then when they’ve finished that, they’ll realise its not big enough, and it’ll take another five to build the other half.

🙂 You are obviously familiar with the way the ACT Council Government works.

Amanda Hugankis12:13 pm 19 Oct 10

p1 – its not going to take ten years to build a hospital!

Its going to take FIVE years to build HALF a hospital, and then when they’ve finished that, they’ll realise its not big enough, and it’ll take another five to build the other half.

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

I’m curious as to where we’d get the extra medical staff from, if they did build it. I thought we already had an under staffing problem.

We could train them in the ten years it would take the ACT to plan and build a whole hospital.

DarkLadyWolfMother11:32 am 19 Oct 10

I’m curious as to where we’d get the extra medical staff from, if they did build it. I thought we already had an under staffing problem.

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