7 March 2016

ACT gives NSW's biggest wind farm a kick along

| Charlotte
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wind farm

The ACT Government has ensured construction will commence on what will be NSW’s largest wind farm by awarding renewable energy developer CWP Renewables a feed-in tariff of $89.10 per MW/h for 100MW capacity to power nearly 50,000 homes.

The choice of CWP’s Sapphire Wind Farm near Inverell in northern NSW as the second winning project in the ACT’s second wind auction brings with it investment benefits worth $100 million over 20 years to the territory.

CWP is a joint venture between Europe’s Continential Wind Partners and Britain’s Wind Prospect Group.

ACT Environment Minister Simon Corbell said the project would power 48,600 Canberra homes and that total costs to consumers associated with all current and proposed large-scale renewable energy projects would peak at $4.67 per household per week, on average, in 2020.

He said CWP would relocate its asset management operations from Newcastle to the ACT, investing $34 million in the development of an ACT-based asset and operations management centre for its growing national and international generation fleet.

“CWP will be the third wind developer and asset manager to base their operations here in Canberra making our city a major hub for wind energy innovation and investment,” Mr Corbell said.

“CWP Renewables will invest $3 million in a world-leading zero carbon micro-grid to be developed at CIT Bruce. This forms part of a $33 million investment in local micro-grid initiatives with strong trades training and research integration. CWP also will invest $35 million to develop an Asia-Pacific micro-grid export hub in the ACT.

“In a win for local companies, the developers will give preference to ACT-based businesses when awarding contracts for the construction of the wind farm – worth at least $5 million.”

Alex Hewitt, Managing Director CWP Renewables, said the ACT purchase of Sapphire Wind Farm renewable energy would allow CWP to commence construction of what will become the largest wind farm in the NSW.

“Construction of the 260MW Sapphire Wind Farm will generate local jobs and investment both in the ACT and in the New England region of NSW,” he said.

“We are looking forward to centralising our asset management team in Canberra to manage wind and solar farms across Australia and Asia.

“Our ACT investment package includes new partnerships with learning institutions and smart technology providers, and an investment opportunity offer to the community.”

Mr Corbell said that by the time Sapphire starts producing energy in April 2018, the ACT will be sourcing 80% of its energy needs from renewable sources and well on the way to achieving 90% by 2020.

“The ACT’s pioneering reverse auction process ensures that Canberrans pay low prices for electricity while receiving maximum local investment benefits,” the Minister said.

Sapphire Wind Farm achieved State and Commonwealth Approval in June 2013 and December 2014 respectively for up to 159 wind turbines on its proposed site between Inverell and Glen Innes and 100 km north of Armidale in New England, northern NSW.

Pictured is a file image of wind turbines.

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Southmouth said :

If i buy organic bananas, they come to me indirectly but with some labelling or other indicator that i am getting the banana i paid a premium for. In the electricity market, my organic banana goes into a big market where all the bananas get mixed up and i get the same percentage of organic bananas as the guy who did not ask or pay for organic. I am happy though because there are more organic bananas overall. Or am i?

By 2020, 90% of all bananas sold in the ACT will be organic.

Southmouth said :

If i buy organic bananas, they come to me indirectly but with some labelling or other indicator that i am getting the banana i paid a premium for. In the electricity market, my organic banana goes into a big market where all the bananas get mixed up and i get the same percentage of organic bananas as the guy who did not ask or pay for organic. I am happy though because there are more organic bananas overall. Or am i?

Silly analogy. Distributed, individual product can’t be compared with something reliant on common infrastructure like electricity or gas.

If i buy organic bananas, they come to me indirectly but with some labelling or other indicator that i am getting the banana i paid a premium for. In the electricity market, my organic banana goes into a big market where all the bananas get mixed up and i get the same percentage of organic bananas as the guy who did not ask or pay for organic. I am happy though because there are more organic bananas overall. Or am i?

wildturkeycanoe6:03 am 08 Mar 16

rubaiyat said :

rubaiyat said :

Southmouth said :

gooterz said :

100MWh x 89.1$/MWh x 24 hours x 365 days =$78 million per year.

$78 million / 52 weeks / $4.67 per household = 321411 households.

Unless I’m mistake it seems like its also per person rather than per household.

Um, it’s spin. The 100MW of energy is only available when the wind blows. If you assume 25 percent of the time then the maths works.

Not surprisingly the problem is with the “assume”.

Wind farms operate 70-85% of the time.

And yet they kill only a tiny fraction of the birds/kilowatt that coal burning power stations do.

Coal burning power stations, which also release an astounding amount of radioactive particles as part of their billions of tonnes of pollutants.

I wonder how much pollution comes out of the aluminium smelters that make the blades, the steel factories that manufacture the tower structure, the copper mines that dig up the ore for the motor windings, the bulldozers paving new roads across desolate farmland, the trucks that carry all these materials and labor to the remote sites where they assemble the wind generators and every facet of manufacturing and transport involved in construction and maintenance of the electricity grid which delivers the power from the “green energy generator” to your meter box? Does wind power still look environmentally friendly?

wildturkeycanoe said :

Does anybody know how Canberra is supposed to be 90% green by 2020? Will it be enforced switching to green energy or will our supplier only buy green and onsell it at premium price? What about the other suppliers, will they be part of this scheme? I can only see it happen with “nanny state” laws making it compulsory.

It’s in the same way that the ACT will have “No Waste by 2010”.

rubaiyat said :

rubaiyat said :

Southmouth said :

gooterz said :

100MWh x 89.1$/MWh x 24 hours x 365 days =$78 million per year.

$78 million / 52 weeks / $4.67 per household = 321411 households.

Unless I’m mistake it seems like its also per person rather than per household.

Um, it’s spin. The 100MW of energy is only available when the wind blows. If you assume 25 percent of the time then the maths works.

Not surprisingly the problem is with the “assume”.

Wind farms operate 70-85% of the time.

And yet they kill only a tiny fraction of the birds/kilowatt that coal burning power stations do.

Coal burning power stations, which also release an astounding amount of radioactive particles as part of their billions of tonnes of pollutants.

Gee, coal fired power stations are nearly as evil as cars.

rubaiyat said :

Southmouth said :

gooterz said :

100MWh x 89.1$/MWh x 24 hours x 365 days =$78 million per year.

$78 million / 52 weeks / $4.67 per household = 321411 households.

Unless I’m mistake it seems like its also per person rather than per household.

Um, it’s spin. The 100MW of energy is only available when the wind blows. If you assume 25 percent of the time then the maths works.

Not surprisingly the problem is with the “assume”.

Wind farms operate 70-85% of the time.

And yet they kill only a tiny fraction of the birds/kilowatt that coal burning power stations do.

Coal burning power stations, which also release an astounding amount of radioactive particles as part of their billions of tonnes of pollutants.

rubaiyat said :

Southmouth said :

gooterz said :

100MWh x 89.1$/MWh x 24 hours x 365 days =$78 million per year.

$78 million / 52 weeks / $4.67 per household = 321411 households.

Unless I’m mistake it seems like its also per person rather than per household.

Um, it’s spin. The 100MW of energy is only available when the wind blows. If you assume 25 percent of the time then the maths works.

Not surprisingly the problem is with the “assume”.

Wind farms operate 70-85% of the time.

Not surprisingly, there is the spin again. They may “operate” at the rate you suggest but are at low output a lot of the time. The fact is they generate way less than 50 percent of their rated capacity over a year. Quite variable with site obviously. I’m not against wind by the way, as long as i can’t see or hear them.

rubaiyat said :

Southmouth said :

Unless someone gives us all large batteries, we will still be using coal and gas. These deals just guarantee the generator a minimum amount when exporting into the grid. So at 6pm when you get home, if there is 10,000Mw of generation in the grid and 100Mw is wind then in simple terms 1% of your consumption is wind supplied just like everyone not in the ACT. It is not possible to “point” this wind power to the ACT separately as the entire eastern half of the country is one grid.

When I buy fruit and veg from the shops it is not directly “pointed” at me but the choice is real.

If I buy healthy vegetables instead of processed junk food in conjunction many others that alters the supply.

The problem, as with junk food, is the large number of lazy, ignorant and anti-social people shifting us in completely the wrong direction. All adding up to a massive Mr Fluffy bill down the track. The lazy, ignorant and anti-social individuals will be the first to complain, even as they try to shift it all onto someone else to pay for their bad choices.

So we agree. Your $5 goes to increasing the amount of wind in the NEM, it does not give ACT residents a bigger share of wind power than NSW residents.

At 10:50 there was about 9840MW of demand in NSW. 214MW was being supplied by wind from an install base of about 680MW.

wildturkeycanoe10:41 am 07 Mar 16

Does anybody know how Canberra is supposed to be 90% green by 2020? Will it be enforced switching to green energy or will our supplier only buy green and onsell it at premium price? What about the other suppliers, will they be part of this scheme? I can only see it happen with “nanny state” laws making it compulsory.

rubaiyat said :

Wind farms operate 70-85% of the time.

No they don’t. AEMO stats show they are only good for about a third of their rated capacity.

rubaiyat said :

Southmouth said :

gooterz said :

100MWh x 89.1$/MWh x 24 hours x 365 days =$78 million per year.

$78 million / 52 weeks / $4.67 per household = 321411 households.

Unless I’m mistake it seems like its also per person rather than per household.

Um, it’s spin. The 100MW of energy is only available when the wind blows. If you assume 25 percent of the time then the maths works.

Not surprisingly the problem is with the “assume”.

Wind farms operate 70-85% of the time.

If its 75% then the cost per week is wrong (far too low)

GCS14 said :

gooterz said :

They should stop making the tiny fans and just build a giant one.
Maybe we could attach some to Telstra tower!

Go and take a closer look at those tiny fans. They are truly enormous.

They don’t call them “bird blenders” for nothing.

btw No form of power generation operates at full capacity, or even 100% of the time, but of course you all knew that didn’t you?

Southmouth said :

gooterz said :

100MWh x 89.1$/MWh x 24 hours x 365 days =$78 million per year.

$78 million / 52 weeks / $4.67 per household = 321411 households.

Unless I’m mistake it seems like its also per person rather than per household.

Um, it’s spin. The 100MW of energy is only available when the wind blows. If you assume 25 percent of the time then the maths works.

Not surprisingly the problem is with the “assume”.

Wind farms operate 70-85% of the time.

dungfungus said :

GCS14 said :

gooterz said :

They should stop making the tiny fans and just build a giant one.
Maybe we could attach some to Telstra tower!

Go and take a closer look at those tiny fans. They are truly enormous.

Why are they called wind “farms”?
They are very industrial contraptions and are certainly can’t be classes as a primary industry.

Not like “real” farmers’ in their straw hats, and horse drawn ploughs.

Really dungers sometimes we think you haven’t peeked from behind those Tuggers’ curtains since Queen Victoria was a boy, doing her real scientific research with bunsen burners and stuff! 😀

“The 100MW of energy is only available when the wind blows. If you assume 25 percent of the time then the maths works.”

So then 25MWh is enough to power 50,000 homes?
The facility will be 260MW capacity. So assuming 25% would be a 75MW minimum.

50,000 homes at an average of 10MW/year/house yields
10MW / 365 / 24 x 50,000 =57 MW.
Which is half of the advertised 100MW but double the 25%.

gooterz said :

100MWh x 89.1$/MWh x 24 hours x 365 days =$78 million per year.

$78 million / 52 weeks / $4.67 per household = 321411 households.

Unless I’m mistake it seems like its also per person rather than per household.

Um, it’s spin. The 100MW of energy is only available when the wind blows. If you assume 25 percent of the time then the maths works.

GCS14 said :

gooterz said :

They should stop making the tiny fans and just build a giant one.
Maybe we could attach some to Telstra tower!

Go and take a closer look at those tiny fans. They are truly enormous.

Why are they called wind “farms”?
They are very industrial contraptions and are certainly can’t be classes as a primary industry.

GCS14 said :

gooterz said :

They should stop making the tiny fans and just build a giant one.
Maybe we could attach some to Telstra tower!

Go and take a closer look at those tiny fans. They are truly enormous.

Its all subjective. The solar tower was going to be 1km high with a 1sq km base.

GCS14 said :

gooterz said :

They should stop making the tiny fans and just build a giant one.
Maybe we could attach some to Telstra tower!

Go and take a closer look at those tiny fans. They are truly enormous.

A few years ago I saw a specially extended semi trailer hauling just one of the blades down to the back of Bungendore. I’d say that would be a baby compared to what they are using now. Truly enormous does not really describe it.

Southmouth said :

Unless someone gives us all large batteries, we will still be using coal and gas. These deals just guarantee the generator a minimum amount when exporting into the grid. So at 6pm when you get home, if there is 10,000Mw of generation in the grid and 100Mw is wind then in simple terms 1% of your consumption is wind supplied just like everyone not in the ACT. It is not possible to “point” this wind power to the ACT separately as the entire eastern half of the country is one grid.

When I buy fruit and veg from the shops it is not directly “pointed” at me but the choice is real.

If I buy healthy vegetables instead of processed junk food in conjunction many others that alters the supply.

The problem, as with junk food, is the large number of lazy, ignorant and anti-social people shifting us in completely the wrong direction. All adding up to a massive Mr Fluffy bill down the track. The lazy, ignorant and anti-social individuals will be the first to complain, even as they try to shift it all onto someone else to pay for their bad choices.

gooterz said :

Given the cost/additional over 20 years is around $1.5billion and the return is 100 million return from spending 1.5billion in tax payer dollars is a potential return on costs of 6% or less. Its not even an investment.

Some bright spark probably did that calculation and thought the answer was return per annum…

gooterz said :

They should stop making the tiny fans and just build a giant one.
Maybe we could attach some to Telstra tower!

Go and take a closer look at those tiny fans. They are truly enormous.

100MWh x 89.1$/MWh x 24 hours x 365 days =$78 million per year.

$78 million / 52 weeks / $4.67 per household = 321411 households.

Unless I’m mistake it seems like its also per person rather than per household.

Charlotte Harper said :

It’s $, have fixed, thanks for spotting that.
I’ll forward your other question on.

Its a strange measurement then as most of the industry uses cents per kilowatt hour.(¢ per kWh)
13.04c/kWh is the cheapest rate for home use any time of the day by acted.

As above 8.91c/kWh is what the government is paying for the green energy. If 50,000 people selected green choice though Acted It would achieve the same effect but come at a rate 7.5c/kWh.

Given the cost/additional over 20 years is around $1.5billion and the return is 100 million return from spending 1.5billion in tax payer dollars is a potential return on costs of 6% or less. Its not even an investment.

Unless someone gives us all large batteries, we will still be using coal and gas. These deals just guarantee the generator a minimum amount when exporting into the grid. So at 6pm when you get home, if there is 10,000Mw of generation in the grid and 100Mw is wind then in simple terms 1% of your consumption is wind supplied just like everyone not in the ACT. It is not possible to “point” this wind power to the ACT separately as the entire eastern half of the country is one grid.

“a feed-in tariff of 89.10 per MW/h for 100MW capacity to power nearly 50,000 homes.”
89.10 Cents / Dollars / Yen?
Sorry needs to have units.

“total costs to consumers associated with all current and proposed large-scale renewable energy projects would peak at $4.67 per household per week”
Total costs to me include supply and usage costs, do you mean the total extra cost to the ACT government though taxes. With additional increases in electricity prices.

The more wind power you generate the less efficient the base load power becomes as you never know how windy it is. Therefore making base load more expensive.

They should stop making the tiny fans and just build a giant one.
Maybe we could attach some to Telstra tower!

Charlotte Harper5:46 am 05 Mar 16

It’s $, have fixed, thanks for spotting that.
I’ll forward your other question on.

rubaiyat said :

I do wish that an artist would be engaged by Wind Farms to arrange the windmills aesthetically,.

The engineers are struggling with the concept that they do not need to be plunked willy nilly all over the landscape.

Agreed. Perhaps they can use the same “artists” used by Capital Metro who don’t show the overhead power cables for the tram or make it almost undetectable, disappearing into the distance……?

Why is it that the current government insists that all wind generated electricity is bought outside the ACT while at the same time insisting that all ACT generated garbage stays in the ACT?

I do wish that an artist would be engaged by Wind Farms to arrange the windmills aesthetically,.

The engineers are struggling with the concept that they do not need to be plunked willy nilly all over the landscape.

wildturkeycanoe12:00 pm 04 Mar 16

Now this is what I don’t get. Up to 50,000 homes will be powered by this wind farm and 90% of Canberra will be reliant on green energy by 2020. Does that mean the government is going to force all households to change their power billing arrangement to more expensive green electricity? If not, will the power retailers simply purchase this green power instead of coal generated electricity, and bill the existing customers as they do now [with the usual increases in price due to reasons known only to them]?
What of the current power generation, will they simply wind down production as we buy less of it with an eventual shutting down of the old plants? Then what. Where are we going to be getting the off-peak electricity from when the wind doesn’t blow? Surely there will have to be a huge investment into storage of all this excess electricity from the abundant supply of environmentally sustainable power.

Smoke and mirrors my friends. By 2020 nothing will have changed in regards to the source of the electrons flowing through your meter but you will be buying something at a higher price, that you never agreed to purchase and you aren’t even receiving.

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