15 May 2013

ACT Policing don't want to know about crime?

| peebus
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A recent spate of mail theft in my area energised the good samaritan inside me to make a report to ACT Policing. Normally I wouldn’t be bothered however seeing how personal some of the mail was it angered me.

Whilst out walking the dog a couple of weeks ago I noticed a fair amount of mail torn open and discarded behind some neighbouring units. I collected up all the stolen mail and knocked on the doors of the victims, returning it with an explanation of what I found. I considered reporting the issue, but thought better of a one-off occurrence. The following week I found the same thing, torn open mail in the same area. This time I thought it best to make a report to the Police. The following day I called them up. The uninterested person on the other end of the phone quickly interrupted me asking if it was my mail that was stolen. I said no, but it happened to other people in my area. He then cut me off saying “I can’t take a report if it wasn’t your mail”. I said OK out of dismay and he followed up by saying “I suggest using a padlock on the mail-box and getting to the box quickly after the postie delivers it”. I was shocked that the Police didn’t even want to know about what was happening in the area.

So again tonight I saw mail strewn open everywhere – same spot – and decided to try my luck with ACT Policing again, hoping that maybe it was just one guy having a bad shift. This time the person told me again that he couldn’t take a report but would take a reference of my details.

What a sad age we live in when the Police don’t want to take any details of a crime in a neighborhood unless it’s the specific victim reporting it? Surely it would be more productive to take the report so they have a reference of what’s been happening.

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I must say I’ve had nothing but positive experiences with Police in the ACT (admittedly my exposure to them is somewhat limited, however it does happen every now and then through various means and I’ve never been on the criminal end of the Policing stick).

That said, I have heard some pretty appalling stories about some things recently. My housemate’s friends recently got pulled up on their way home from here. They both had amounts of weed on them (and were quite stoned at the time), so the driver got out and admitted he had a “fifty” on him. They were taken in and tested, he was given a small fine (it’s a pretty minor offense really). However, the passenger of the car managed to go in, get searched and get out without a single thing happening to him – he had $600 worth of chron hidden in his jacket…

peebus said :

p1 said :

Photos? You know, so we can be sure you aren’t lying about the racist part of the story.

Racist? Where does that come into anything?
You seriously want a photo of an envelope?

Actually, no. That post was not serious. Sorry for the confusion.

p1 said :

Photos? You know, so we can be sure you aren’t lying about the racist part of the story.

Racist? Where does that come into anything?
You seriously want a photo of an envelope?

Someone I know was recently assaulted, she was unable to call the police during the event as the other person smashed her phone.

When she was finally able to track down a neighbour that was home to use their phone to call the police they weren’t interested for 2 reasons. She willingly let this person onto her property and because she didn’t call during the assault.

Still pisses me off they wouldn’t even track down this person to lay charges

Tetranitrate11:13 am 16 May 13

jessieduck said :

Crimestoppers might give you more satisfaction. As you didn’t actually need police attendance that would have been the better number to call. They can take your report and it’s logged in a database so that is a pattern of behaviour starts to emerge, they can allocate some resources.

What’s the point of having crimestoppers separate from the normal police number anyway? It’s not really all that clear to the public what the difference is, people generally know when to call 000 and when not to, but I’ve never seen it advertised “call 131444 only if the matter requires attendance, otherwise call crimestoppers” or anything of the sort.

peebus said :

UPDATE: More mail found this morning – a small parcel this time. Returned it to it’s owner and asked her to call the police (assuming they want to know about it). She was very pissed off, but thankful for returning it.

Photos? You know, so we can be sure you aren’t lying about the racist part of the story.

UPDATE: More mail found this morning – a small parcel this time. Returned it to it’s owner and asked her to call the police (assuming they want to know about it). She was very pissed off, but thankful for returning it.

funbutalsoserious10:46 am 16 May 13

Kalfour said :

I’ve reported a house break-in, two car break-ins, and a minor assault. For each of these, the police have told me ‘there’s not enough to go on’.
They wouldn’t even come to the house to look for fingerprints.

That is shameful.
I had a car break in a few years back, rang them, I could even see fingerprints on windows that I had only washed the day before. They were totally not interested, the attitude that I recieved was, why have you rung the police for this???
Why do we have Police in Canberra? To identify where to stick the next speed camera for revenue???

p1 said :

Perhaps next time, you should say a ten grand pushie was taken from you letter box?

yep, 10 grand pushy gets in the paper, $23 grand motorcycle gets ignored. it is a weird territory

On Friday last week (10th May) I was driving home from work via Northbourne Avenue, north bound. As I was stopped at traffic lights just near Condamine Street , a ragged and angry looking man (most likely a drug user based on actions and appearance) approached my vehicle and started trying to open my passenger door. When he was unable to open the door (thank god) he started banging aggressively on my window. I was terrified. As soon as I could I started driving and made sure I was well away from him when I pulled over to report the incident to police. You know what they said “It’s not actually a crime to bang on your car window” WTF, this man was trying to get into my car – not in a friendly “hey how are ya” manner either. I was shocked. I ended up logging onto the crime stoppers website and leaving a detailed report and description but yep, the attitude of the AFP left me bewildered to say the least.

Perhaps next time, you should say a ten grand pushie was taken from you letter box?

jase! said :

Kalfour said :

I’ve reported a house break-in, two car break-ins, and a minor assault. For each of these, the police have told me ‘there’s not enough to go on’.
They wouldn’t even come to the house to look for fingerprints.

I remember calling to report the theft of a motorcycle many years ago and was told here is your job number give it to your insurance. When I asked them to come check the nice fingerprints on my freshly washed car (the bike was parked behind the car) I was told it wasn’t going to happen. It did annoy me as the Police Forensics Station wagon used to be parked 4 spots up from mine when the guys took it home most nights

I didn’t even get a job number. They basically just told me that it wasn’t their problem.

Crimestoppers might give you more satisfaction. As you didn’t actually need police attendance that would have been the better number to call. They can take your report and it’s logged in a database so that is a pattern of behaviour starts to emerge, they can allocate some resources.

I feel sorry for the police and the crappy jobs they have to do. I have to call them out semi regularly for an alcoholic neighbour who can’t function. She really needs to be in care but instead she wanders around barefoot in winter and screams at shadows. I call them for “welfare checks” and I know it’s not fair for them to have to deal with her but I’m sure as sh-t aren’t equipt to deal with her level of dysfunction. Whenever I’ve called they’ve visited her within 5 minutes and an ambulance often follows.

Kalfour said :

I’ve reported a house break-in, two car break-ins, and a minor assault. For each of these, the police have told me ‘there’s not enough to go on’.
They wouldn’t even come to the house to look for fingerprints.

I remember calling to report the theft of a motorcycle many years ago and was told here is your job number give it to your insurance. When I asked them to come check the nice fingerprints on my freshly washed car (the bike was parked behind the car) I was told it wasn’t going to happen. It did annoy me as the Police Forensics Station wagon used to be parked 4 spots up from mine when the guys took it home most nights

LSWCHP said :

A_Cog said :

What does LHPSWC think?

Well, I’m astounded that anybody would want to know what I think about anything, so thank you very much for asking.

My take on this is that it’s disappointing but not really surprising because you get what you pay for.

We, as a community, have to allocate public funds to a variety of competing things such as policing, physical infrastructure, public transport, education etc. Even public art works.

Overall I think the ACT cops do a great job with what they have, but they don’t appear to have the resources to be able to deal with crime of this nature among the general low-level noise of assaults, burglaries and other such crime. The sad thing is that while such crime may be considered “low-level” by some, to the victims it can be very high level indeed. I’ve been both assaulted and burgled and it’s horrific.

My children were the victim of mail theft a few years ago and it really, really angered me. Christmas gifts from my parents to my kids, including some substantial lumps of cash, simply disappeared into the grimy hands of some thieving mongrel. It was a really scummy act on the part of whoever did it. I got pretty much the same reaction from the cops as the OP. In the long run, the effect of this is that there are those laws that are enforced, and those that get an eye-roll when they are reported.

Until we as members of the community are prepared to cough up more cash to fund more cops on the street I suspect that this is as good as it gets. I’m not saying it’s right, just that it is what it is.

You’ve hit the nail on the head there for we get what we pay for and without appropriate resources effective policing is compromised.The same could be said of the judiciary even though many there have been accused of poor performance and inefficiency.

Mysteryman said :

Tooks said :

Don’t like the service, put in a complaint. Although having police come out, collect mail from you, then return it to its owners, seems an inefficient use of resources.

You’re right. They’d better more effective booking speeding motorists. After all, that’s the only offense that matters in the ACT. Right?

Yeah, in between finishing the two or three briefs of evidence they have at any one time, managing their current workload, attending court, attending burglaries, domestic disturbances, shoplifting, other minor theft, property damage, traffic complaints, neighbourhood disputes, assaults, robberies, car crashes, visiting schools, breach order jobs, suspicious person reports, sexual assaults, suspicious vehicle reports, proactive patrols of trouble spots, stolen cars, recovered stolen cars, mental health incidents, hospital deaths, house deaths, arsons, check welfare incidents, check premises incidents…taking a laser out would be quite relaxing.

I’ve reported a house break-in, two car break-ins, and a minor assault. For each of these, the police have told me ‘there’s not enough to go on’.
They wouldn’t even come to the house to look for fingerprints.

However, I called them once to report that there was a cow walking down Ginninderra drive, reported abandoned vehicles, and other non-criminal things, and they’ve always followed them up.
I’m pretty unimpressed generally.

In future, lie and say your mail was stolen. Or ask the people whose letters were ripped to report it.

A_Cog said :

What does LHPSWC think?

Well, I’m astounded that anybody would want to know what I think about anything, so thank you very much for asking.

My take on this is that it’s disappointing but not really surprising because you get what you pay for.

We, as a community, have to allocate public funds to a variety of competing things such as policing, physical infrastructure, public transport, education etc. Even public art works.

Overall I think the ACT cops do a great job with what they have, but they don’t appear to have the resources to be able to deal with crime of this nature among the general low-level noise of assaults, burglaries and other such crime. The sad thing is that while such crime may be considered “low-level” by some, to the victims it can be very high level indeed. I’ve been both assaulted and burgled and it’s horrific.

My children were the victim of mail theft a few years ago and it really, really angered me. Christmas gifts from my parents to my kids, including some substantial lumps of cash, simply disappeared into the grimy hands of some thieving mongrel. It was a really scummy act on the part of whoever did it. I got pretty much the same reaction from the cops as the OP. In the long run, the effect of this is that there are those laws that are enforced, and those that get an eye-roll when they are reported.

Until we as members of the community are prepared to cough up more cash to fund more cops on the street I suspect that this is as good as it gets. I’m not saying it’s right, just that it is what it is.

If they don’t record it its not a statistic…

Policing by the numbers, very similar to hospital waiting times and ER times by the numbers: they’re all improved by the way to collect the numbers

I’m surprised the cops aren’t interested in possible identity theft.

GardeningGirl8:18 pm 15 May 13

peebus said :

…..I simply wanted to make a report so they knew about it, and if they received multiple reports of it maybe then they could do a patrol every now and then – but this wasn’t my explicit request.

Sounds completely reasonable to me.

Instant Mash7:32 pm 15 May 13

When I used to do overnight work, we’d semi-often get the angry, drunk and disorderly hurling abuse and objects at our windows, threatening us, damaging property etc.

Can anyone guess how many times the police bothered to show up, let alone do anything?

Lookout Smithers said :

What was it that convinced you that a crime had been committed here? A neighbours claims wouldn’t have been enough to rule out the owner of the mail may in fact be responsible for it.

It could have been the fact that the torn open mail from ~5 units was strewn across the parkland behind their unit block. Or the fact that it has happened multiple times in the same place. Or the fact that it happened to numerous units along my street. Or lastly the fact that when I returned the mail to its owners they were just as surprised as I was.

Again, where did I say that I wanted police attendance? I didn’t. I simply wanted to make a report so they knew about it, and if they received multiple reports of it maybe then they could do a patrol every now and then – but this wasn’t my explicit request.

For the record caf, this is happening in Tuggeranong – I’d rather not specify which particular suburb though.

FXST01 said :

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Stakeout the mailbox!!!

Nah booby trap it with explosives. That’ll learn em

Not enough police involvement. I don’t think that the OP will be happy until there’s around the clock surveillance of all mailboxes within a 50 km radius of the tampered mail.

I call ‘operation uselesswasteoftimeandmoney’

Or Operation SKYWHALE.

Operation ionlylikeartwhenitlookslikesomethinganditsreallycheapthatonepictureofdogsplayingpokerwasgood

wildturkeycanoe5:37 pm 15 May 13

Apparently, as I have found out first hand, if your neighbor’s home intruder alarm is activated the police aren’t interested either, even if the thing is blaring away at 1 in the morning. They told me to investigate if there was any evidence of forced entry and beyond that to leave it up to the monitoring company. Considering there wasn’t a sticker on the blue strobe light and no security vehicles came it could have made an easy target for anyone, expect for the fact that everyone in the street was up and watching in anticipation of some silence..

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Stakeout the mailbox!!!

Nah booby trap it with explosives. That’ll learn em

Not enough police involvement. I don’t think that the OP will be happy until there’s around the clock surveillance of all mailboxes within a 50 km radius of the tampered mail.

I call ‘operation uselesswasteoftimeandmoney’

Or Operation SKYWHALE.

peebus, what location was this? I’m sure any of us that live nearby would be interested to know about this, even if the coppers aren’t.

Jim Jones said :

I call ‘operation uselesswasteoftimeandmoney’

Could we have an exhaustive list of the laws that aren’t worth even pretending to enforce?

ScienceRules said :

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

So… In that sense, If I saw a house being broken in to and because its not my house and I’m not the victim reporting the break in, they (Police ) will ignore it because I’m not the ‘specific’ victim?

Yep, Rawhide that’s totally what would happen because stolen letters scattered on the ground and housebreaking with offenders on the premesis are completely the same thing. You’ve got them bang to rights.

F#%king with peoples mail is a a pretty serious offence.

There are a few ‘issues’ with how ACT Policing deal with reports and crime stats.

Firstly, the ACT Crime Stats webpage on the ACT Policing website states that it doesn’t provide the ‘crime rate’ for suburbs with populations less than 350 people. But if you grind through the site (and correlate the ABS data with the crime stats), there are a bunch of suburbs with more than 350 residents, but no published crime rates. Puzzling.

Second, Police Minister Corbell is entirely positive and hopeful when quizzed about rising crime, even to the point of dismissing and ignoring trends and data for specific suburbs. Understandably, he doesn’t want to say anything which casts doubt on his broader remarks of ACT CRIME DOWN!!! even though the drops are territory-wide totals, but many suburbs have had crime increases since the beginning of 2010. This suggests that in order to address alcohol-related crime in Civic, they’ve ‘poached’ officers from other patrol areas, or alternatively, scheduled officers to work weekend evenings and not weekday daytimes.

Third, there certainly feels like there has been a decrease in patrols over the last few years. This is one indicator of reduced general police presence.

Fourth, good luck getting quantitative data on crime prevention and community policing activities, which have a demonstrated effect on reducing crime. The absence of this suggests that ACT Policing do not support, from a cultural or conceptual perspective, engaging with the community. This is a shame, given the bundles of studies from the USA and UK showing community policing cuts crime for a fraction of the cost of conventional policing.

Yes I think they do a good job overall and the ACT has impressive stats nationally, but from closely watching the numbers and reports for the last few years, I get the feeling that the ACT’s overall performance comes at the expense of several pockets of the ACT.

What does LHPSWC think?

Lookout Smithers4:04 pm 15 May 13

Tooks said :

Don’t like the service, put in a complaint. Although having police come out, collect mail from you, then return it to its owners, seems an inefficient use of resources.

They should go out, do that, then proceed to force the complainant to spend the rest of the day with them to observe the service they provide at any number of real police assistance urgencies. I was in Canberra on the weekend and as I drove around I thought what a gorgeous city. On a perfect weather day there, it could be mistaken as a fictional kingdom that wants for nothing. Seriously, someone explain how it works here. Madness.

GardeningGirl3:58 pm 15 May 13

Thank you for trying Peebus.
I know of a couple of times when police declined to attend for less than convincing reasons, which I won’t detail. I know they can’t be everywhere at once and they can’t immediately attend when they have something else of greater priority, but conveying the impression they’re not interested, and don’t keep records to monitor what’s going on out in the community and don’t liaise with other involved parties, eg Australia Post, that’s not sending the right message. They can’t literally be everywhere at once but they do need to make it seem like for all anyone knows they just might be.

Lookout Smithers3:58 pm 15 May 13

What was it that convinced you that a crime had been committed here? A neighbours claims wouldn’t have been enough to rule out the owner of the mail may in fact be responsible for it. Maybe it was a paper mache mixture gone wrong? I can happily forward on some of my mail if it will ease the grief and anguish. I have no need for it as I stopped getting snail mail when Australia Post became a business instead of a service. They ended up being a business with no service anyway.Soon enough they wont need to place such a harmful item in places where they know people can abuse the material. Anyway I would hate to see you with real neighbourhood crime. Madness.

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Stakeout the mailbox!!!

Nah booby trap it with explosives. That’ll learn em

Not enough police involvement. I don’t think that the OP will be happy until there’s around the clock surveillance of all mailboxes within a 50 km radius of the tampered mail.

I call ‘operation uselesswasteoftimeandmoney’

Jim Jones said :

Stakeout the mailbox!!!

Nah booby trap it with explosives. That’ll learn em

Stakeout the mailbox!!!

peebus said :

bundah said :

The plod do have a point ie. if you want your mail secured then a padlock is a cheap and efficient method of keeping it secure.That being said however should they be using tools to force open the letterboxes then plod should attend.

And if the posties don’t push the mail all the way into the box then even the best padlock is useless.

Agreed however if the posties are aware of the situation and aren’t able to push it all the way in then they need to be directed to leave a card instead so that mail can be picked up from the nearest PO.Failing that surveillance is the only other option.

bundah said :

The plod do have a point ie. if you want your mail secured then a padlock is a cheap and efficient method of keeping it secure.That being said however should they be using tools to force open the letterboxes then plod should attend.

And if the posties don’t push the mail all the way into the box then even the best padlock is useless.

The plod do have a point ie. if you want your mail secured then a padlock is a cheap and efficient method of keeping it secure.That being said however should they be using tools to force open the letterboxes then plod should attend.

Tooks said :

Btw, it isn’t stolen mail, it’s found property. The correct thing to do is drop it into the nearest police station where they will then contact the owner and establish if it was in fact stolen, at which point a theft will be dispatched and investigated.

I think the fact that there were torn open envelopes with missing contents is a give away.

I also didn’t want a police call out, I simply wanted them to be aware that there has been 3+ cases of it. If they want to do something about it that would be nice, lest they just take a note that it’s been happening.

Tooks said :

Don’t like the service, put in a complaint. Although having police come out, collect mail from you, then return it to its owners, seems an inefficient use of resources.

You’re right. They’d better more effective booking speeding motorists. After all, that’s the only offense that matters in the ACT. Right?

Btw, it isn’t stolen mail, it’s found property. The correct thing to do is drop it into the nearest police station where they will then contact the owner and establish if it was in fact stolen, at which point a theft will be dispatched and investigated.

Aeek said :

This methodolagy will really cut down on murders. Were you the person who was murdered? No = Not interested!

Canberra Policing “Managing Crime by ignoring it”.

Hence the nearly full jail.

Don’t like the service, put in a complaint. Although having police come out, collect mail from you, then return it to its owners, seems an inefficient use of resources.

That attitude makes reporting a murder a problem.

Me: I’d like to report a murder.
Plod: Are you the victim?
Me: No.
Plod: I’m sorry, I can’t take your report.
Me: OK – would you at least like to know how I did it?

Maybe you should try reporting it to Australia Post. They might then be able to make a report to the Police themselves.

This methodolagy will really cut down on murders. Were you the person who was murdered? No = Not interested!

Canberra Policing “Managing Crime by ignoring it”.

ScienceRules12:36 pm 15 May 13

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

So… In that sense, If I saw a house being broken in to and because its not my house and I’m not the victim reporting the break in, they (Police ) will ignore it because I’m not the ‘specific’ victim?

Yep, Rawhide that’s totally what would happen because stolen letters scattered on the ground and housebreaking with offenders on the premesis are completely the same thing. You’ve got them bang to rights.

Tetranitrate12:25 pm 15 May 13

Yeah I had the same sort of experience a few years ago when I was working in a job that occasionally involved contacting the police. The amusing thing is that the times I’d dealt with the state police in NSW, whether Queanbeyan or Western Sydney, the attitude was completely different.

Rawhide Kid Part312:11 pm 15 May 13

So… In that sense, If I saw a house being broken in to and because its not my house and I’m not the victim reporting the break in, they (Police ) will ignore it because I’m not the ‘specific’ victim?

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