13 December 2010

ACT Stanhope government - Authoritarian and out of touch

| Steve D
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Well, at least when it comes to social policy and their treatment of the ACT community (Us). And certainly when it comes to the language they use – a dead give away. Consider what the Office of Regulatory Services has to say about Designated Outdoor Smoking Areas. And please note that I am not taking issue with the notion of having separate smoking areas. I like many other don’t like hazy smoke filled areas. That’s about clean air.

‘The main purpose of a DOSA is to allow an area for customers to briefly enter in order to smoke and then return to non-smoking areas of the premises. It is not intended to be a place to ‘hang out’ and socialise. Consequently, there are restrictions on what can occur in a DOSA.’

It has to be one of the gems of Australian politics. Tobacco is not illegal, yet the Stanhope government goes as far as to send a message that clearly indicates they want a section of the population discriminated against to the extent that it is OK for the government to take steps to prevent them from ‘hanging out and socialising’. And it goes further.

The Stanhope government even goes as far as to define what the entertainment is that must be banned so that DOSA is unattractive.

‘The Act defines entertainment as including television (for example, televised sporting events), but does not include public announcements or recorded music. For example, premises may provide taped music in the DOSA and announcements such as “Meal number 35 is ready”. It should be noted that the definition of entertainment in the legislation is not exhaustive. Entertainment would include other forms of entertainment such as viewing sport, playing sport, radio broadcasts or live music etc.’

Well bugger me. If I choose to enter a DOSA and listen to my iPod I bloody well will!

As I say, the language is a dead give away and the approach of making an area unattractive? Smacks of psychology 101. So again more behaviourist manipulation.

But let’s go further with this. I don’t know about anyone else, but the apparently endless regulation of the lives of individuals and the collective life of the community is a hallmark of the ACT Government. Office of Regulatory Services? Smacks of the Stanhope Governments brown bombers. Is the Canberra community that lawless and individual citizens so inconsiderate of one another that the administrative boot of this government needs to endlessly stamp its ugly imprint on the community? I think not.

Not let’s shift to a slightly bigger picture. The ACT government behaves less like a State or Territory government and more like a local council that is out of control. Mind you, it is also worth noting that over the past ten years the pendulum has swung away from the rights of citizens and more toward the right of governments – to walk all over there own citizens.

Mind you, at the same time the Stanhope government can’t get health right, small business continues to drown in red tape, the transport system is a mess and let’s not talk about the fact they even seem to find it hard to keep the roads and footpaths in good repair. Balance that against the fact that the only thing they seem to be consistently good at is gouging more and more money from the community in the form of taxes and charges.

Of course, some of this comes down to the public roles played by individual politicians. If you look at the media performance of Katy Gallagher problems rarely get acknowledged, Andrew Barr continues to play wedge politics with the Canberra community – e.g Trying to play baby boomers and younger members of he community off against one another over urban infill – and John Stanhope nigh on plays the role of Pontious Pilate when an problems come up. Talk about a triad of denial.

And the bottom line? Maybe at the next election we should vote for whichever party has the courage and trust to run a truly consultative government and place more of an emphasise on individual freedom and community responsibility. And one that is transparent I might add.

If I had to place the Stanhope government on a political spectrum I would describe some of their behaviours as heading towards the fascist end of the scale. However, let’s be kind and call it paternalism out of control.

Anyone going to hang out and socialise this Christmas?

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I was frankly surprised they aried the interview on 666 it was very A Current Affair ish in its tenor (woe is me everyone is at fault) – they were complaining about having mud in their houses and suggesting someone could have got really sick and that there should be an inquest into the event (when no one was even injured).

But then again its much easier to whinge about those who are in charge.

Reminds me of the Captain’s Flat couple interviewed on the radio yesterday afternoon who wanted to know why the council didn’t oragnise their evacuation when its really the SES’s responsibility.

What ever happened to personal responsibility? Didnt everyone know these rains were coming? Weren’t there warnings all over the news and internet before, during and after the rain? Even RA was up-to-date on what was happening. I suppose this couple would have also complained that during the bushfires, the firies didnt come and evacuate them, because they were too stupid to figure out they were in danger themselves.

But then again its much easier to whinge about those who are in charge.

Reminds me of the Captain’s Flat couple interviewed on the radio yesterday afternoon who wanted to know why the council didn’t oragnise their evacuation when its really the SES’s responsibility.

Having lived in a couple of states in Australia I find the ACT Government a breath of fresh air (pun not intended). Yes at times they act like a local council but thats what happens when you don’t have a local council. I find the Chief Minister’s weekly appearance on 666 a rather quaint practice (similar to when I was oriented to TCH and the CEO of ACT Health gave a welcome speech). There also seem to be about 4 pollies who are ministers of everything – I would find the hat changing exhausting.

The truth is they appear far more approachable and accountable than their counterparts just about anywhere. Agreed there are some clunkers in the wording of their legislation but I think that is a product of having to be both state government and local council – I really don’t think its a product of this government per se. Smoking laws are an excellent example of this – in other states you have local councils instigating bans on beaches and all sorts of places – (providing for the public amenity) – but you have the state government responsible for health policy (looking at ways to reduce smoking).

I’m sorry that the targets become the smokers themselves but I’ve stated my thoughts on that above.

BTW as for the idea of parking meters in hospitals – TCH just has a new multi-storey car park built which is currently free to staff, patients and visitors – find me one of those in a hospital in another Australian city and I’ll eat my hat.

Hi clp

Tobacco certainly would not be legalised if it was discovered today, but the reality is that it’s not the case. How the ACT government regards and engages with citizens certainly is Stanhope’s responsibility. It would have been much more transparent for the government to tell the community that they were going to make DOSA’s so unpleasant that smokers would not use them.

The language and the mindset is the issue here. It just happens that they were game enough to use it in this particular bit of legislation. And look at the conduct of this government over things like urban infill, school closures, ever increasing costs of utilities – and I just loved the reaction to the ABS reporting that we had the most expensive water in the country. To wit, we have smaller bills. We do as people really pull back on consumption. Citizens doing good, not the government.

And let’s not forget gems like parking meters in hospitals.

The ACT government is basically a local council with an inflated view of itself that we pay for that.

shadow boxer10:25 am 14 Dec 10

shadow boxer said :

shadow boxer said :

I watched these laws in action at the Lighthouse on Friday night, the smokers literally ducked under a rope and had a smoke, I continued to chat to my mate while he had a smoke and we were separated by no more than 1 metre and a rope.

What about the venue’s responsibility to ensure that smoke from a DOSA does not enter other outdoor food/beverage areas? I hardly think that a rope will stop that.

I’m not sure, just stating what happened, there is not a DOSA as such at the lighthouse, essentially anyone outside the rope is on public property surrounding the lake.

It was almost impossible for the venue security to police, they seemed to focus on making sure people didn’t take drinks outside the rope

In regards to the OP I don’t think you need to accuse the government of pretending to hide how they feel about smoking as I don’t think they need to hide it.
Yes the unfortunate consequence of banning smoking in certain areas as made them feel like pariahs but the benefits to the community as a whole far outweigh this one negative.
The counter arguments – re curtailing civil liberties (ie smoking isn’t illegal) and other things kill you (junk food, cars etc etc) are very tired and trotted out anytime new legislation is introduced. But who wants to go back to the days of people smoking at their desks a la Mad Men? Yes its always hard to deal with a change to these laws but people adapt and get over it.

There is overwhelming evidence to demonstrate that restricting smoking in public reduces rates of smoking and smoking is the largest contributer to preventable early deaths.
Its a complete no-brainer.

Its only a historical legacy which keeps tobacco legal – imagine if it was newly discovered today. There is no way it would be passed for human consumption.

I would see it available on prescription only to people who have signed up to a users-program.

This has nothing to do with John Stanhope – well other than the competition between the various states and territories to show who is more with it in regards to these issues.

Ouch! WordPress ‘did not like’ embed code in comments.

I wouldn’t say the ACT Stanhope government is by any means up there in the evil stakes. However, I would say that when governments display authoritarianism and arrogance when dealing with citizens then it is time for them to go as what they are effectively doing is undermining our democratic freedoms.

It is well worth taking time out to watch Julian Assange presenting at the Oslow freedom forum to get a feel for that.

Assange at Oslow freedom forum – Part 1 http://youtu.be/ZYspXgSQTy4

Assange at Oslow freedom forum – Part 2 http://youtu.be/4S6002S8PTU

I wouldn’t say the ACT Stanhope government is by any means up there in the evil stakes. However, I would say that when governments display authoritarianism and arrogance when dealing with citizens then it is time for them to go as what they are effectively doing is undermining our democratic freedoms.

It is well worth taking time out to watch Julian Assange presenting at the Oslow freedom forum to get a feel for that.

Part 1

Part 2

Jon “Kim Il Jung” Stanhope and Andrew “Hates People With Gardens” Barr require Shane, Amanda, Meredith and Caroline to present their *rses to them daily – so there isn’t much hope for Canberra unless the Liberals get a bit more functional. I can’t believe the Greens are so unethical as to rollover on every issue other than the little irrelevant “puff stuff” sops that Stanhope is prepare to throw at them, like banning shopping bags.

Seriously, can’t we get rid of this government before it wrecks this city altogether?

Realitycheck said “I can make a choice to drink myself stupid, sit near a smoker or move away or tell them they stink and are an inconsiderate arsehole.” – Not if you are an employee of the establishment. I’d be interested in hearing some positive thoughts on how to protect employees from the dangers of passive smoking. I think you’ll find thats what this is about. Personally I wonder whether just letting employers work out whats a safe environment for their staff and living with the consequences would produce some good results. Perhaps its a situation where regulation helps employers with this rather than them having to stick there neck out and give up the business to others that are less concerned.

shadow boxer said :

I watched these laws in action at the Lighthouse on Friday night, the smokers literally ducked under a rope and had a smoke, I continued to chat to my mate while he had a smoke and we were separated by no more than 1 metre and a rope.

What about the venue’s responsibility to ensure that smoke from a DOSA does not enter other outdoor food/beverage areas? I hardly think that a rope will stop that.

Funny how a dislike of authoritarian Stanhope makes someone automatically qualify for the Liberal party.

A few people have asked whether I am a member of the Liberal party. I am not a member of, or affiliated with any political party. Rather, as a citizen I get a tad irritated by what looks like a pattern of behaviour.

Outside of may day job I do this >>> http://bit.ly/YIHEy and to give you an idea of where I’m coming from check out the Gov 2.0 Conference held in Canberra last month >>> http://www.gov2.com.au/speakers

The point is that this is not about the smoking per se – look at the language the ACT government uses. As to their involvement in the Gov 2.0 agenda – I am reliably informed they are not there. Consultation seems to consist of inviting people to submit reports – fine in their place – but where is the blog, where is making it easy for the community to get involved? The review of the ACTPS is a case in point http://www.actpsreview.act.gov.au/

So there you go.

amarooresident33:01 pm 13 Dec 10

Is this the same Stanhope who regularly gets berated on this very website for not being authoritarian enough?

It’s funny how the Government suddenly becomes authoritarian when you don’t like what their doing.

I don’t smoke and dislike smoking however the current arrangements are fine as far as I’m concerned. I can generally go out and eat without worrying about smoke. Ultimately, smoking is a legal drug and people have to be allowed to smoke.

I’m still upset with this government that they banned fireworks.

Don’t worry, you won’t get the chance to elect Stanhope in 2012 anyway. Katy will be Chief Minister by that election. Zed shortly afterwards, hopefully.

Are you affiliated with the Liberal Party at all, Steve D? If so, in what capacity?

If you want to smoke stuff off to NSW. When you smoke with a capacity to keep your second hand smoke to yourself you can smoke where ever you like until then learn to live with it.

The sad thing is that as much as we complain come election time, the fabled rusted-on Labor voters will vote Labor, the rusted-on Liberal voter will vote Liberal, and the trendy inner city-ites will vote Green. And nothing will change. No swing, nothing.

I see the ACT Labor government ruling (and the inhabitants rueing) for twenty years.

Antagonist said :

I get the impression Mr Stanhope is driven more by ‘looking good’ than implementing ‘good public policy’.

Good point, shame he can’t realise he is doing it wrong.

realitycheck12:32 pm 13 Dec 10

Five times the amount of peole die each year of adverse drug reactions than smoke related illness. These are people who take prescription drugs as prescribed and are not overdoses or prescription error.

Twenty times the amount of people die from each year from illness directly related to their diet than smoke related illness.

Why doesn’t the Government ban parents from giving fast food to their children more than once a week? The cost of obesity on the tax paying far outweighs the cost of smoking.

Why doesn’t the Government ban drug companies and their dealers (otherwise known as doctors) from pushing pills down the publics throats?

Why doesn’t the Government ban religion? Lets face it, more people have been murdered in the name of God than any other reason.

Why doesn’t the Government ban people getting drunk? I find drunken idiots at pubs and clubs more offensive and dangerous than cigarette smoke. The cost of alcolohism on society is enormous.

Why doesn’t the Government ban old men with hats and old ladies with blue hair from driving on the roads because they are dangerous or how about pumpkin because I really think it tastes like sh*t.
Where does it end?

Everything we do in a society has an effect on others either directly or indirectly, but the bottom line is we have choices.

I can make a choice to drink myself stupid, sit near a smoker or move away or tell them they stink and are an inconsiderate arsehole.

I can make a choice to tell the fatso that they should get a bucket at the all you can eat restaurant, or hang up on sale calls and close the door on Jehova’s Witnesses.

I can make a choice to go to church, what religion I will follow or which imaginary friend (God) I will believe in.

I can make a choice what football team to follow, what sports to play, what job I want to work and whether I should punch that prick from the sales Dep’t who keeps farting in the elevator.

I can make a choice what to watch on tv, where I wan’t to shop and what to buy and what useless self defacating politician I will vote for.

I can make a choice where and what I want to eat, who to love & hate, what doctor I want to see or how often I honk my horn at the blue haired old lady driving in the right hand lane at 50kmh in an 80kmh zone.

They may not all be good choices and I will have to pay the price for my actions but I would much rather make all bad choices than have our freedom taken away and be forced by Government to make any of them.

I get the impression Mr Stanhope is driven more by ‘looking good’ than implementing ‘good public policy’.

Yep. There is a certain lack of real choice between the ALP and Libs. When brands converge? But maybe if the people of Canberra stood up and laid down some common conditions for community engagement (and both sides of politics committed to that) we could get somewhere. Practical stuff like putting in place infrastructure to allow for open and transparent on the development and implementation of policy – and deliver of services (and the standard for them).

In a practical sense this is what Gov 2.0 is all about and you would think that in small jurisdiction like the ACT we would be leading the way. And why not a very clear code of conduct for politicians designed with and for the community. Today, we have the technology and means to do this, but our politicians keep going down paths that people are clearly crapped off with. and they wonder why we get hung parliaments.

You don’t have to be half smart to ask why the ACT government doesn’t work with the community to take the lead on this stuff. As a small and compact jurisdiction we could be. Ooops I forgot. You can’t really trust citizens. Committees, spin and off the record conversations are so much more comfortable.

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

I agree with this post 100%. I couldn’t have said it better myself. We need to vote this clown OUT next election.

The problem being that there’s little to suggest the local Liberals wouldn’t be more authoritarian.

Zed, Dozpot, Hanson and Coe have struck me over the years as being very keen on banning things.

That’s a fair point. Personally, I’d rather take a risk on the unknown, in the hope that things would improve, than re-elect the (in my opinion) worst Chief Minister yet.

Pommy bastard11:11 am 13 Dec 10

Most of you seem to really hate smoke as you’re sitting road side in your fav cafe. You never hear any complaints about the car exhaust.

harley said :

Why is it authoritarianism to stop employees being forced inhale second hand smoke whilst cleaning/waiting/serving? The smokers made a choice to smoke, the employee should not have to suffer the consequences of another’s addiction.

Are these persons forced to work in bars which smokers patronise?

Ok, lets compromise (and then have a group hug).

Restaurants/bars/cafes/pubs etc should be allowed to be smoking or non smoking, as long as they clearly state on the building and all advertisements which they are.

Most of you seem to really hate smoke as you’re sitting road side in your fav cafe. You never hear any complaints about the car exhaust.

Good morning Harley. I agree with you completely about the second hand smoke issue, even not withstanding outdoor areas on a breezy day. The issue on the smoking side of the equation is the right of is the clear intent of making the DOSA as unpleasant as possible so that people don’t hang out and socialise.

However, for me the bigger and more important issue is to do with the marked tendency of governments to police, rather than govern the community while, at the same time, stuffing up on the delivery of services.

Mysteryman said :

I agree with this post 100%. I couldn’t have said it better myself. We need to vote this clown OUT next election.

The problem being that there’s little to suggest the local Liberals wouldn’t be more authoritarian.

Zed, Dozpot, Hanson and Coe have struck me over the years as being very keen on banning things.

Steve D… Steve Doszpot?

shadow boxer10:11 am 13 Dec 10

I watched these laws in action at the Lighthouse on Friday night, the smokers literally ducked under a rope and had a smoke, I continued to chat to my mate while he had a smoke and we were separated by no more than 1 metre and a rope.

Stupid law….all it did was greate huge headaches for security and send the smokers out in front of the other shops trying to ply their unrelated trade.

Why is it authoritarianism to stop employees being forced inhale second hand smoke whilst cleaning/waiting/serving? The smokers made a choice to smoke, the employee should not have to suffer the consequences of another’s addiction.

If people were allowed to “hang out”, then the employees would be required to service that area.

I agree with this post 100%. I couldn’t have said it better myself. We need to vote this clown OUT next election.

Another thought in light of Deref’s post. The Stanhope government thinks that policing people=good government. Talk about failing Government 101. Wonder what would happen if they called an election and nobody came?

You’re so right. And it’s worsethat that. Not only do they use their power to not act in the community’s interest, there are times when the work hard to act against it.

Oops Taz – Should have typed something before accidentally reposting your comment. A quirk of WordPress me thinks.

Anyway, I sort of agree with you, but what I would like to add is that if governments keep treating people like children expect some of them to behave that way. Yes it is happening all over the country which just goes to show what governments will do if citizens let them. This is why Wikileaks has some governments a tad cranky.

Hi Deref. You have hit the nail on the head.

This just seems to be a reflection of an increasing trend in the Labor party across Australia towards authoritarianism. It’s one reason that people are deserting them.

I agree with the general thrust of this comment. BUT. Unfortunately there are plenty of members in the community who are not considerate and this especially applies to smokers as far as I am concerned (with grog in them too at these ‘DOSAs’).

Moving away from the smoking ‘policy’, it is a shame that we over regulate but it seems that it is required because there are plenty of people who have no sense and are not considerate and also do not use common sense. It is a vicious circle, more idiotic behaviour, more idiotic laws…. Then there is the increase of mad litigation too…

This is not just happening in the ACT. It is all over the country.

I agree with the general thrust of this comment. BUT. Unfortunately there are plenty of members in the community who are not considerate and this especially applies to smokers as far as I am concerned (with grog in them too at these ‘DOSAs’).

Moving away from the smoking ‘policy’, it is a shame that we over regulate but it seems that it is required because there are plenty of people who have no sense and are not considerate and also do not use common sense. It is a vicious circle, more idiotic behaviour, more idiotic laws…. Then there is the increase of mad litigation too…

This is not just happening in the ACT. It is all over the country.

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