ACTION - school kids in seats, the elderly left to stand

Well any person should offer their seat to an elderly passenger, not just a child/teenager. As for children giving up their seat for an adult I fail to see the point, they are both as capable of being able to satisfactorily stand in a moving vehicle. First on the bus gets the seat. Changing seating positions on a bus that is packed to capacity is almost impossible anyway.

Bettie said :

I think it has more to do with the snooty upbringing and sense of entitlement instilled on them by their parents.

It’s only reinforced by their teachers.

er, not too much snooty at Sneddies and st tarts! Oh dear.

Entitlement seems to be a disease many people are suffering from these days, I reckon it’s afflicted all those people with babies and toddlers, for instance. In fact anyone who identifies themselves as A Family.

justbands said :

Yes, that’s Rugby though (as opposed to rugby LEAGUE). Rugby is generally considered more of an educated gentlemans game.

This from a guy who doesn’t even know how to use an apostrophe.

For the benefit of any other “educated gentlemen” out there who happen to be Union fans, it’s “gentleman’s”.

Whilst it’s all well to offer a seat, on the flip side persons with a mouth are able to ask.

Nothing worse than a patronising person coughing up a lung in front of you when they could simply and politely ask “Excuse me, but do you mind if I could sit down?”

I was brought up to give up my seat to those in need of one, especially if one should choose to sit in the yellow seats.

I was always told at grammar that whilst I was in uniform I represented the school and hence should behave as if I were at school. This sank in at around year 9-10… teens will be teens.

PS: Regardless of my socks around my ankles or loosening my tie- I still gave up my seat.

I’m a student at St. Edmunds, and I will have to agree, there are some inconsiderate little boys that attend.

In life, there are as many decent people as there are inconsiderate.

Last Wednesday, our principal addressed the college at assembly with an E-mail he had received from a woman who boarded the bus in Campbell I believe.

There were three St Edmunds students waiting for the same bus. When it arrived, one of them said to his other two mates “Let the lady on first guys”.

35 odd St Edmunds students didn’t offer their seat to two elderly women.

35 out of 1200.

Such a small minority of students could hardly have anything to do with the teaching/ character building methods of the school.

Good call AJ – a fellow pink fan – I doon’t know, I’was really droonk at the time

When I was in school – all those years ago – older people commanded respect and I felt bad if i DIDN’T get up for them to have my seat.

Agreed, and that is certainly part of the problem.

I think it has more to do with the snooty upbringing and sense of entitlement instilled on them by their parents.

It’s only reinforced by their teachers.

I wouldn’t send kids to either of those schools, based on their respective reputations.

‘ow can ya have any puddin’ if ye don’t eat ya meat?

…and of course, we used to live in’t shoebox, in middle’t road.

i’m with gobbo; call ’em up on this sort of rude ignorant behaviour and make them squirm in public. well, let’s hope they skwirm; rekkun a good lot of them don’t understand why it’s rude. sad, really. i often have a go at people what drop litter near me, especially in a crowd. a dollar for every red cheek, eh? but two for every glower or look of diffidence and it’d even out… people not using indicators, too…

you, stand still laddie!

jakez said :

It was more a quip than an actual fact based statement. I was more referring to their unstoppable dominance of all things. I choose to bask in this reflected glory by virtue that I went to that school.

It’s a weak link, but I’m clinging to it with dear life.

So did I Jake, hence my tongue in cheek comment. In those days we had to offer our seats to any adult not just the wrinklies. Some of today’s schoolkids don’t seem to have any respect for anyone, even themselves.

Contact thew schools concerned and ask them to explain to you why the students have not given up their seats.For decades they are aware of their respective behavioural problems on the bus system. They would want to know about this.

My partner had the unfortunate experience to be in almost the same situation as the OP. In his case, the bus stopped for passengers to get on. The St Eddies boys barged to the doors of the bus, jostling old people out of the way to get on the bus first. My partner yelled at them all and made them stand back to let the old people on.

He wrote to St Eddies, to the principal, to let the school know how rude and inconsiderate their students were.

Obviously, he heard nothing back from the school.

I meant genius, genius!

ant said :

Schools can inculcate a framework of desirable behaviour and this is an example of that.

ant you’re a genious!!! That is exactly what I was trying to say but obviously not smart enough to articulate.

…Perhaps if I had better teachers.

While I stridently uphold it is the role of “working families” to actually raise their kids, in this case the “group behaviour” thing mentioned by others is relevant.

Kids must be raised with some modicum of manners and decent social behaviour by their parents (yeah, right), but also, things like the subject under discussion should be reinforced by the school, so ALL the kids are aware of social expectations.

Some of them will come from homes befitting alley cats. And increasing numbers come from homes where the parents seem to not bother any more.

Schools can inculcate a framework of desirable behaviour and this is an example of that.

If you don’t eat your meat, you can’t have any pudding

Jim Jones said :

Teacherbots … ROLL OUT!

For up to 12 weeks leave as opposed to 4! Ouch!

– uh that was a joke, I don’t envy teachers one bit.

By the time most children are old enough to travel on buses without an accompanying adult, parents, teachers and other adults have often been supplanted as role models by the sad array whose exploits we see in the meeja and even here in RA, and worse, by each other. When kids of a certain age range get together, they can, and often do, act as bad influences on each other.

Teacherbots … ROLL OUT!

Hmmm … machines.

Now you’re onto something.

Italics strike again! Sorry! take 2…

I’m not saying they should be responsible for the kid’s upbringing at all and toilet training children is definitely not what I’m getting at either.

Fact is the majority of kids develop most of their social skills at school. Teachers most certainly have to have some kind of influence over that, otherwise why not just replace them with machines?

Jim Jones said :

AngryHenry said :

MsCheeky said :

quote]

Teachers are responsible for the academic education of children, not their entire freakin’ upbringing.

Seriously, this is one of the reasons why nobody wants to be a teacher anymore, because so many ‘parents’ are leaving their children to be brought up almost entirely by others. Talk to any primary school teacher and they’ll tell you about the multitude of parents who expect teachers to toilet train their children, or the high-school teachers who are expected to teach teenagers basic discipline and respect for others.

I’m not saying they should be responsible for the kid’s upbringing at all and toilet training children is definitely not what I’m getting at either.

Fact is the majority of kids develop most of their social skills at school. Teachers most certainly have to have some kind of influence over that, otherwise why not just replace them with machines?

It doesn’t matter which school these kids go to, this is something their parents need to teach their kids. “Respect for Others 101” is a home based subject.

My pet peeve used to be schoolkids who thought that their bags also deserved a seat, or that the appropriate behaviour on the train was to dump them in the doorway. Most adults asked for the kids to move them, but if the kids refused just picked them up and flung the offending bags out of the way themselves or take the only other option left, which was to walk on top of the sea of bags while attempting to get out of the doors.

MsCheeky said :

I’ll take your two little old ladies and up you one. I saw a young mother struggling onto a full bus with pram, toddler and baby. I (a middle-aged woman) stood up to give her my seat and a teenage girl standing behind me slipped straight into the seat. The young mother and I moved her back out of it pretty quickly, but I thought it was breathtakingly rude behaviour.

I call them on that behaviour and publicly humiliate them.

I was once on a crowded 333 when this brittle old stick of a woman managed to get on the bus.

I was standing, as were many able-bodied adults. Kids were sitting. When she shuffled up the corridor to make room for those behind her, I tapped a lad on his shoulder and advised him to stand up and give his seat to this lady. He did so. But very begrudgingly and gave me ‘the evils’ for the rest of the journey.

His friend (who remained seated next to the old stick) also tried to give me the ‘evils’. Problem is, you have to have not be a ‘green stick’ to give ‘evils’ and these kids didn’t know where to begin. I also managed to throw them off by smiling sweetly back at them whilst they were giving me their best ‘hate’.

I have no qualms about asking kids to shift their @rses on behalf of others.

She was 87 years old btw. She informed me and all who could hear of her age attainment!

What is it with old people and their age-bragging? Do we just all revert to childhood behaviours after a certain age?

Hmm, just re-read my post and realised my sarcasm may not have been sarcastic enough, but rather that it sounded like I condoned the ‘ignoring’ behaviour I saw in Victoria.

Definitely not! Was always happy to give up my seat, even occasionally asked others to when I didn’t have a seat of my own to give.

AngryHenry said :

MsCheeky said :

That said, agree with the general consensus that this is not an issue of schooling, but simply of the courtesy and manners of the individuals in each case. I’m proud to say my son stands up for others.

Yes it is, just because good manners aren’t in the cirriculum doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be enforced by teachers, I mean they probably spend more hours in the day with some kids than what their parents do. I’m not by any means saying that teachers should be held solely responsible for rude kids but they certainly have a hand in a kid’s development and that includes how they behave socially, otherwise why call them ‘teachers’?

Teachers are responsible for the academic education of children, not their entire freakin’ upbringing.

Seriously, this is one of the reasons why nobody wants to be a teacher anymore, because so many ‘parents’ are leaving their children to be brought up almost entirely by others. Talk to any primary school teacher and they’ll tell you about the multitude of parents who expect teachers to toilet train their children, or the high-school teachers who are expected to teach teenagers basic discipline and respect for others.

I was thinking about posting on this issue myself.I often catch the no 6 from Red Hill to Civic. There is a schoolbus which delivers to Telopea Park which travels a minute immediately before the no 6, which most of the Telopea students avoid, as it takes them…straight to school! Whereby if they get on the no 6 they can get off at Macas at Manuka for a preschool fix of sugar and fat. Consequently, school bus hardly has anyone on it, no 6 is standing room only past the Red Hill shops. Fortunately, the lady who often drives the bus makes a point of getting these brats out of the seat if there is an adult standing.

According to ACTION, there is nothing that can be done about it, other than ask the schools to request the little dears to get on the right bus. Maybe a few stray elbows would help make their minds up which bus they should be on…

MsCheeky said :

That said, agree with the general consensus that this is not an issue of schooling, but simply of the courtesy and manners of the individuals in each case. I’m proud to say my son stands up for others.

Yes it is, just because good manners aren’t in the cirriculum doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be enforced by teachers, I mean they probably spend more hours in the day with some kids than what their parents do. I’m not by any means saying that teachers should be held solely responsible for rude kids but they certainly have a hand in a kid’s development and that includes how they behave socially, otherwise why call them ‘teachers’?

I’ll take your two little old ladies and up you one. I saw a young mother struggling onto a full bus with pram, toddler and baby. I (a middle-aged woman) stood up to give her my seat and a teenage girl standing behind me slipped straight into the seat. The young mother and I moved her back out of it pretty quickly, but I thought it was breathtakingly rude behaviour.

That said, agree with the general consensus that this is not an issue of schooling, but simply of the courtesy and manners of the individuals in each case. I’m proud to say my son stands up for others.

The day someone offers me a seat is the day I die inside.

YapYapYap, did you say anything to the schoolkids in question? Did you tell them to have some respect and stand up?

I know I would and have done in the past, I think it’s called ‘teaching’. Something schools and especially parents do substantially less of these days, in their abscence I find hard-knocks quite effective.

Why didn’t you do something about it yourself YapYapYapper?

When the aging-population crunch comes, and baby boomers on public transport really outnumber the students, there will be blood. Walking frames with concealed guns, canes with hidden stilettos, false teeth with cyanide gas capsules, law suits, enraged letters to the editor of the CT. The coming battle for bus seats will become the stuff of legend…General Val Jeffries will lead us to freedom…

It really has nothing to do with Catholic/non-catholic, private/public. It’s simply lack of courtesy and respect. And the parents should be teaching these values, not the schools who already have enough to do teaching academic subjects without teaching the things that parents should be instilling in their little darlings. Ths schools are a great target for this type of criticism simply because we can identify where the kids comes from, at least for about 7 hours of the day.

What a bunch of rude little scumbags, and shame on their parents AND schools for not teaching them the basic manners. They can paint up those schools as being “private and exclusive” all they like, but I reckon they’re still the povo try-hard schools for football ruffians and catholic wives and mothers in training that they always were.

Although a year back I offered my seat on a bus to an older lady, and she pretty much laughed at me. Well i don’t feel middle aged! I’m sure she looked older than me. humf.

Wow,
kids not giving up their seats for adults, Its the end-days i tells ya.

and i saw a public school kid smoking in Woden yesterday, those public school kids have no morals.

As a Marist student in the 80’s who had to catch 8 buses a day to get to and from school (later reduced to 6 bussed a day when the express 333 came in) I can state that we were always required to stand up if an adult (not just an elderly person) had no seat.

Bus drivers would enforce this at their leisure, which in my experience they almost always did.

As for parent vs teachers educating our kids in manners etc. they both should be involved. Parent must take the lead which then must be reinforced at the school. My kids arebeing taught their manners on a daily basis.

I see the curent lack of considertion shown by the students mentioned in the OP as being just another step down on ladder of general regard for others.

But then again, when teenage girls feel required to swear and scream on buses as I frequently see, and often in front of clearly offended elderly passengers, and the driver does nothing, why shoulod we expect them to just offer up a seat?

oh, really smart. and no guilt, hmmm? what a dumb thing to do.

YYY, your comment reminds me of my Dad getting yelled at by another driver and being called a ‘silly old man’ – he was more upset about being considered old than being yelled at. Now that I’m getting older, I understand his pain!

Back on topic, in Victoria it was (still is?) a rule for any concession card holder to give up their seat to any full fare paying passenger, which was usually just interpreted as kids giving up seats to adults.

However, if you were ‘smart’ you would just totally engross yourself in your newspaper/book or turn your iPod up to 11 and you could enjoy your seat without guilt regardless of how many elderly persons or pregnant women were standing near you!

captainwhorebags said :

We should bring in a law saying that Catholics have to give up their seat for the rest of us.

Come on ANNAOO, Jeebus already died for your sins, now you want his seat too?

My well-known ancestor died a victim of Roman imperialism. Anything else is just Roman propaganda. He certainly didn’t die so Catholic schoolchildren could feel entitled to seats on public transport.

Why aren’t the bus drivers responsible for speaking to the students? They used to be quite good at it back in Adelaide.

My children attended both Public and Catholic Schools and it has nothing to do with the schools. It has to do with the parents and how the child is raised..
Also can depend on the ‘aged’ person too.
I told my son (11yo) to offer his seat to an elderly lady who had gotten onto a bus from Woden. She smiled, said “thankyou” then sat her shopping bags on the seat and remained standing. Then when another lady got off the bus, the elderly lady sat there and left her shopping on the seat with my son still standing. (I wonder if she went to a Catholic School or not?)

my granny would be appalled if she found out i didn’t give my seat up to a lady or an elderly person. and i am not a youngun any more….

It is the responsibility of the parents to teach the kids that they are raising about courtesy…

We should bring in a law saying that Catholics have to give up their seat for the rest of us.

Come on ANNAOO, Jeebus already died for your sins, now you want his seat too?

> There is a schoolbus run that makes a pickup near my house. I frequently see parents dropping kids off at the bus stop in their cars. That is something I really don’t understand.

Fairly easy to understand that one (& I see it myself). School is one way, parents work is the other.

frontrow said :

There is a schoolbus run that makes a pickup near my house. I frequently see parents dropping kids off at the bus stop in their cars. That is something I really don’t understand.

On topic – Some people are self absorbed and others are more considerate of others. I’ve never noticed a strong correlation between this and social status, wealth, education or anything else.

Parents dropping kids off to the bus stop on their way to work? What’s not to understand about it.

Does owning a car preclude someone from catching a bus? Or is it the dropping them to the bus stop instead of having them walk aspect?

We should bring in a law saying that Catholics have to give up their seat for the rest of us.

There is a schoolbus run that makes a pickup near my house. I frequently see parents dropping kids off at the bus stop in their cars. That is something I really don’t understand.

On topic – Some people are self absorbed and others are more considerate of others. I’ve never noticed a strong correlation between this and social status, wealth, education or anything else.

justbands said :

> Not when Eddies plays it.

Times must have changed. My older brother played for Eddies First 15 many years ago (& from there made the Australian Schoolboys team), he only went there for year 12..specifically to play Rugby. Appropriate behaviour at all times was very high on the agenda for the team back then.

It was more a quip than an actual fact based statement. I was more referring to their unstoppable dominance of all things. I choose to bask in this reflected glory by virtue that I went to that school.

It’s a weak link, but I’m clinging to it with dear life.

I don’t know about Canberra, not having used the buses, but in Brisbane it was a condition of a student fare on public transport that you stand and offer your seat to any adult who was without one. It was also a separately enunciated rule in the school handbook, and one enforced by the prefects and the large number of old girls and parents who caught the train (in my experience as both a student and an old girl!).

+1 to misspris. Kids spend only about 20% of their life at school therefore much has to do with the parents who should be paying more attention and not relying on the school to teach their children everything.

> Not when Eddies plays it.

Times must have changed. My older brother played for Eddies First 15 many years ago (& from there made the Australian Schoolboys team), he only went there for year 12..specifically to play Rugby. Appropriate behaviour at all times was very high on the agenda for the team back then.

Jim Jones said :

With an increasingly aging population vying for fewer available seats during peak hour, I think that the solution is obvious: soilent green.

bahaha! I’m with you there.
Before I say this I need to say the following disclaimer:
When I do catch buses I do offer older people my seat, although it is rarely necessary.

However, while I can see the point of this for frail elderly people, I don’t feel so oblidging to just generally old people. Just because your hair goes grey or white doesn’t make me want to give up my seat for you. (again I’m not talking about little old grannies here!)
I hate to say it, but part of me thinks that they can stand just like the rest of us. I am pretty sure this stems from being brought where old people are always right, just cos they are old, and we shouldn’t challenge them because we need to “respect our elders” blah blah blah. I’m so sick of hearing old people bitch an moan, that I have become age-ist.
all right. its out. I am age-ist.

It’s got nothing to do with schooling and everything to do with parenting. If I thought either of my kids (one is at Narrabundah College and one is at St Clare’s) left an adult standing while they sat they’d cop it. Simple.

justbands said :

> Don’t forget, our Eddies boys are in training as our future footballers. Not sure about the girls though.

Yes, that’s Rugby though (as opposed to rugby LEAGUE). Rugby is generally considered more of an educated gentlemans game.

Not when Eddies plays it.

I can easily see the above happening on a bus with any school students. Personally, I’m always unsure about offering my seat to a woman/older person. There’s something so potentially insulting about it. Fortunately it hasn’t come up in a very long time.

With an increasingly aging population vying for fewer available seats during peak hour, I think that the solution is obvious: soilent green.

> Don’t forget, our Eddies boys are in training as our future footballers. Not sure about the girls though.

Yes, that’s Rugby though (as opposed to rugby LEAGUE). Rugby is generally considered more of an educated gentlemans game.

I am finding that this is the norm lately. Radford kids are the same on the 300 series buses. They do not give up their seats to the elder people even though they get off earlier than everyone else at College Street. *sigh* They are usually too busy listening to their Ipods.

Don’t forget, our Eddies boys are in training as our future footballers. Not sure about the girls though.

> Its the parents fault they should be dropping and picking up the kids. What self respecting private school kid catches a bus anyway?

Judging by the sheer number of them I see at bus stops on my way to work & also by the masses of buses at the catholic school near my office every morning/arvo…I’d say most self respecting private school kids catch the bus. Perhaps their parents can’t afford BMW’s (with the massive schools fees to pay), so the kids don’t want to be seen with them.

Its the parents fault they should be dropping and picking up the kids. What self respecting private school kid catches a bus anyway?

Haha..timely post considering this one…

http://the-riotact.com/?p=11176

..in which “Emlyn Ward” has claimed that public school kids are all scum & catholic school kids are the very picture of good community friendly behaviour. Of course Emlyn must be ignorant of examples such as this one of the opposite, or indeed of when Eddies suspended the entire student body for bad behaviour. Can’t be true though…’cause according to Emlyn, that could only ever happen at those godless public schools.