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Amber light for point to point cameras

By johnboy 26 August 2011 29

The Greens’ Amanda Bresnan has announced they’ll support point to point cameras in the ACT, but with some conditions.

The Greens have given in-principle support to the use of point to point cameras in the ACT, guaranteeing that they can be used for important road safety measures.

However, the Greens deferred final approval of the legislation, calling for controversial and little-known aspects of the legislation to be subject to wider community debate and human rights analysis.

“For the Greens, speed cameras are very much about road safety. We support new initiatives and new technologies that will help to keep ACT road users safe, and will contribute to a reduction in deaths and injuries that occur on our roads each year,” said Greens Transport spokesperson, Amanda Bresnan MLA.

“Our concern was that some quite controversial uses of collected data were put to the Parliament that were not discussed with the public or properly subjected to privacy and human rights analyses.

“I have written to the ACT Human Rights Commissioner, asking for an analysis of these issues. This is something the Government should have done at the beginning.


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Amber light for point to point cameras
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DUB 10:54 am 05 Sep 11

Privacy issues or no issues at all- they have started the works already, before the legislation is passed, so the title of the post can be read as “Green light….”.

EvanJames 10:34 am 05 Sep 11

A much simpler way to implement whatever it is they want to implement, would be to remove the warning signs about speed cameras, and tow the cameras around, hiding them in new and unsignposted spots. They’d catch heaps that way.

Erg0 9:54 am 05 Sep 11

Thoroughly Smashed said :

GottaLoveCanberra said :

Erg0 said :

Which part of Hindmarsh is it, exactly?

This is the rough stretch of road from the plan I have seen through work.

http://imageshack.us/f/842/clipboard02rq.jpg/

I drove through there the other day, they’ve got the detector loops cut in pretty much those locations, just set far back from the intersections enough to minimise the effect of queuing (presumably).

Yep, saw them on the weekend myself. So, pretty much just the stratch of road that goes over the hill, which was my initial suspicion. Looking forward to riding my brakes all the way down there in the near future.

Thoroughly Smashed 9:34 am 05 Sep 11

GottaLoveCanberra said :

Erg0 said :

Which part of Hindmarsh is it, exactly?

This is the rough stretch of road from the plan I have seen through work.

http://imageshack.us/f/842/clipboard02rq.jpg/

I drove through there the other day, they’ve got the detector loops cut in pretty much those locations, just set far back from the intersections enough to minimise the effect of queuing (presumably).

gazket 4:59 pm 01 Sep 11

more people die waiting for a hospital bed than die on our roads. How about doing something about that you bunch of boneheads.

Grail 9:19 am 27 Aug 11

For every article I see claiming a link between speed cameras and reduced accident rates, there’s at least two articles proclaiming a link between speed cameras and increased accident rates.

IMHO, if we are concerned about minor crimes we need to have police out there policing the laws. Clamp down on minor crime and, according to the NY experience at least, the major crimes don’t happen so much. Well, at least not in your jurisdiction 🙂

Police presence, not revenue-raising robots, is what will reduce infringement rates. But then this government has included expected speeding fine revenue in their budget. I don’t think they’re in any hurry to make our roads safer.

00davist 8:56 pm 26 Aug 11

fgzk said :

I think the point is pointing not at the “point to point” speed cameras but the data generated by all traffic cameras

Actually, the reason this has focussed more on Point to Point, is that the data in question is NOT captured by all traffic camera’s.

Speed camera’s only activate if you are speeding, if you drive past not speeding, NO data is captured, Red light cameras are the same, the only time they take a happy snap, is if you run the red.

Point to Point Camera’s photograh each and every vehicle passing through, and analyse the plate to get a read, so that they can then compare it to the same car when you pass through camera two.

The data being reffered to is the photographs and registrations of those who have broken the law, and therefore have no need to have said data recorded.

The data can be used to prove where somone was on a particular day, on a particular time, currently, traffic camera data can only provide this information if you break the law, what they are saying here is, p2p would make this data just for driving down the road.

Martlark 7:35 pm 26 Aug 11

There is plenty of reliable peer reviewed research to show that speeding significantly increases the number of ‘accidents’ and their severity. Establishing an overall habit of traffic law observance will improve every road. Not just the few meters around a speed camera zone. I’ve noticed a clear calming down of roads since speed cameras and camera vans were introduced. The more automation we have in law enforcement the more resources we can divert to difficult crimes.

GottaLoveCanberra 7:30 pm 26 Aug 11

Erg0 said :

Which part of Hindmarsh is it, exactly?

This is the rough stretch of road from the plan I have seen through work.

http://imageshack.us/f/842/clipboard02rq.jpg/

milkman 7:22 pm 26 Aug 11

I don’t think point to point cameras are going to help much, especially when you look at where they want to put them initially.

Thoroughly Smashed 4:37 pm 26 Aug 11

Erg0 said :

Kim F said :

Well, the first approved spot is on Hindmarsh Drive. The flaw in their cunning plan is there is more than one set of traffic lights on the stretch of road earmarked for the cameras. Catch one red light and you’ll need to do some impressive work to get your average up and over the limit!

Which part of Hindmarsh is it, exactly?

The section being talked about is still “Yamba Drive to Monaro Highway”.

Which is interesting, because there are three signalised intersections between those two roads. They might be planning to narrow it down in the future, or perhaps they really are going to do that and the only way you can get caught is if you’re speeding AND get all three green lights. This would all but preclude peak hour, but would still be more likely to catch drivers speeding outside these periods, particularly at night.

fgzk 3:53 pm 26 Aug 11

I think the point is pointing not at the “point to point” speed cameras but the data generated by all traffic cameras. The point being, how long that data is kept and who gets to use it. The endless argument over speed cameras safety effects is pointless. Pointing out the obvious privacy concerns seems to go over everyone head. Its all good till some one points the finger and uses the data available from cameras to push their own moral/political agenda. Will we see the data gathered used for political point scoring?

I think most of you have missed the point.

Erg0 3:46 pm 26 Aug 11

Kim F said :

Well, the first approved spot is on Hindmarsh Drive. The flaw in their cunning plan is there is more than one set of traffic lights on the stretch of road earmarked for the cameras. Catch one red light and you’ll need to do some impressive work to get your average up and over the limit!

Which part of Hindmarsh is it, exactly?

Kim F 3:38 pm 26 Aug 11

Well, the first approved spot is on Hindmarsh Drive. The flaw in their cunning plan is there is more than one set of traffic lights on the stretch of road earmarked for the cameras. Catch one red light and you’ll need to do some impressive work to get your average up and over the limit!

watto23 3:35 pm 26 Aug 11

If they really did make the roads safer I’d be happy for them to go in. But they won’t.
Also love to see the statistics for accidents caused by speeding and whether using a phone, or drink driving were also involved and at what speed these fatalities occurred at.

The real issue is there are many repeat offenders allowed to drive again and again.

p1 3:31 pm 26 Aug 11

Mysteryman said :

You’re correct. People don’t realise how many of those ~10 deaths a year are attributed to “speed”. Not many of them. Approximately 20%, last time I checked….

Sooo, hardly any deaths are attributed to speed, yet here we are putting in place a system which targets speeding.

Stats show that unlicensed/unregistered drivers are over represented in accidents. We could be spending the same money on more RAPID systems (and cops to use them), which are proven to catch these unlicensed/unregistered threats.

Chop71 3:14 pm 26 Aug 11

They tried this in Canada, pew pew pew and the problem was fixed.

00davist 3:01 pm 26 Aug 11

Mysteryman said :

I wish the greens would actually review the data concerning speed cameras and their lack of effectiveness in “road safety” and dismiss the idea completely.

I’m glad they are at least thinking about the issue.

They are only lacking in effect becase of the giant advertisments, at least with P2P, you dont get the ‘I’ll just slow for the camera effect.

Sure, you can pull up and wait at the camera, to make sure you keep in time, but really, why speed then?

Camera’s need to be hidden, mobile, and frequent.

If you are not sure weather or not you are in front of one, you will watch your speed!

creative_canberran 2:58 pm 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

creative_canberran said :

I’ve yet to see any evidence that speed camera reduce fatalities.

Start here: http://www.camerassavelives.vic.gov.au/home/road+trauma/research+and+evidence/

A stack of links to Monash University Accident Research Centre (MUARC) reports.

The article says: “Since cameras were introduced in the late 1980s, Victoria’s road toll has more than halved and the 2010 road toll of 288 is the lowest annual road toll since monthly records began back in 1952.”

and

“The eight years from 2003 to 2010 are the eight lowest road toll years since records started in 1952.”

post hoc ergo proper hoc?

Also, I note that those reports linked to on that site all make “crash outcomes” the focus, which is silly given the advances in design and safety over that period. The page doesn’t seem to make reference to a decline in the number of total incidents on the roads, which according to insurers and other sources is actually increasing.

shadow boxer 2:56 pm 26 Aug 11

Mysteryman said :

I wish the greens would actually review the data concerning speed cameras and their lack of effectiveness in “road safety” and dismiss the idea completely.

I’m glad they are at least thinking about the issue.

I thought speed cameras were for black spots, is the GDE a particulalrly accident prone piece of road ? we haven’t even built it or areed a speed limit.

Nothing like waiting a decabe for a piece of infrastructure and then throttling it as soon as it becomes available.

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