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Another road discussion!

00davist 22 July 2012 63

So, with the recent discussions surrounding the fatal crash in Chifley, and the eating of pie while driving in conversation, I have been left again with the thought, ‘What can be done?’

In the end, I thought that might be something to throw over to everyone, and see what ideas are out there.

To help kick this off, here’s some of my thoughts:

I agree with the idea of power limits for younger drivers, yes, there is the argument that even smaller cars can hit high speeds, but more powerful cars and cars with turbo’s etc, can be easier for inexperienced drivers to lose control.

Trucks are (meant to be) fitted with speed limiters, and other devices, why not look into devices that can be fitted to the cars of repeat offenders, such as phone signal jammers for those who have been caught on the phone, speed and rev limiters for hoons, or traction control that can’t be disabled for those caught doing burnouts.

I realise a number of these things could, and would be overridden by those intent on breaking the law, but like disabling the speed limiter in a truck, that would become an offence in itself.

There is a lot of technology already in use for other purposes, which could be put into use for the protection of other road users.

Most modern cars have chips inside the keys that will not allow the car to start, unless a scanner in the car recognises the key, this helps prevent theft by forcing the lock, or cutting another key, could similar technology not be applied to licences in some way?

The issues that irritate me most:

    1)      Young drivers, and high speeds, they become out of control flying steel death traps.

    2)      Older drivers, and low speeds, if it’s a sunny, dry day, and you’re doing 50 in an 80 zone, you are a dangerous obstacle to the flow of traffic.

    3)      Over cautious drivers, they become very unpredictable and erratic.

    4)      Drivers who don’t understand rules and courtesy’s surrounding lanes, merging and roundabouts.

    5)      Tailgating, it is a problem that seems (by my observation) to be big in the ACT.

Does anyone have any bright ideas, other pet peeves, steam to vent or comments to make about road safety in the ACT and Surrounds?


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63 Responses to Another road discussion!
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JC JC 5:23 pm 24 Jul 12

Felix the Cat said :

Postalgeek said :

Felix the Cat said :

What about at a roundabout, if you are going straight ahead and there are two lanes and someone approaches from the right on the inside lane and you are in the outside lane are you allowed to proceed in the clear lane? I thought you could and had a guy road rage me quite badly two days in a row at the same roundabout. He had his own lane to go around in and was indicating that he was going right.

Forgive me if I’ve got this wrong, but are you asking if it’s okay to drive across traffic entering or that has already entered the roundabout on your right (not the adjacent lane running parallel to yours on your right)?

They are coming from my right and turning right while I’m going straight ahead and we are both in seperate lanes (I’m in left, he’s in right lane). This illustration below of a similar roundabout may help to work out what I’m trying to describe.

I realise the rule is give way to traffic already in the roundabout but as we could both continue our respective journey without impeding each other I didn’t think anyone needed to give way.
http://www.drivingnt.com/img-tips/roundabout4.gif

To be clear lets say you have a 4 way round about, with each of the approaches numbered clockwise from 1, 2, 3 and 4. If I understand correct you are saying is you are entering in the left lane at 1 and exiting on 3 (straight ahead) and the other car is entering at 4 and exiting at 3.

In which case you would be well within your rights to enter as you will be using the left hand lane and he the right hand lane.

Having said that the way some cars drive I wouldn’t be game to do it in the interest of avoiding an accident. Same too with give way at roundabouts. I just give way to anyone approaching from my right (and anyone else already on the roundabout), even though by law if I enter the round-about first they have to give way to me.

Antagonist Antagonist 3:07 pm 24 Jul 12

Felix the Cat said :

They are coming from my right and turning right while I’m going straight ahead and we are both in seperate lanes (I’m in left, he’s in right lane). This illustration below of a similar roundabout may help to work out what I’m trying to describe.

I wait until those cars in the right lane have passed. That car in the right lane that appears to be turning right only has to flick his left indicator on and proceed straight ahead (instead of turning right) and he will T-bone you as he tries to exit the roundabout. You will be at fault because you did not give way to the right. A car in the right lane is under no obligation to turn right. They can continue on straight ahead if they so wish.

Personally I don’t risk it. I wait until both lanes are clear. If impatient d!ckheads want to get on the horn – not my problem. I hope they have a brain anuerysm from their self-influcted stress. And I will blow them a kiss in the rear view mirror just to wind them up some more.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back VYBerlinaV8_is_back 1:13 pm 24 Jul 12

Innovation said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Most people honk because they are idiots. I’ve been honked for not entering a roundabout because a B-double was using both lanes to ease through and I figured I’d just let let him go.

The best thing to do is simply to drive sensibly, defensively and make sure you are always in full control of your vehicle.

The funniest one I had was a guy that honked me when I was turning off the M2. I paused on a green light because there was a semi turning on my left (and I thought he might go right across without seeing me) and I couldn’t clearly see past the bushes on the right to see if there was any red light runners. The funny bit was this guy then roared past me and 60 km’s later I was still only about 100 metres behind him…..

Amazing, isn’t it. I had family members injured in an accident with a red light runner some years back, so I always check first too.

Felix the Cat Felix the Cat 1:09 pm 24 Jul 12

Postalgeek said :

Felix the Cat said :

What about at a roundabout, if you are going straight ahead and there are two lanes and someone approaches from the right on the inside lane and you are in the outside lane are you allowed to proceed in the clear lane? I thought you could and had a guy road rage me quite badly two days in a row at the same roundabout. He had his own lane to go around in and was indicating that he was going right.

Forgive me if I’ve got this wrong, but are you asking if it’s okay to drive across traffic entering or that has already entered the roundabout on your right (not the adjacent lane running parallel to yours on your right)?

They are coming from my right and turning right while I’m going straight ahead and we are both in seperate lanes (I’m in left, he’s in right lane). This illustration below of a similar roundabout may help to work out what I’m trying to describe.

I realise the rule is give way to traffic already in the roundabout but as we could both continue our respective journey without impeding each other I didn’t think anyone needed to give way.
http://www.drivingnt.com/img-tips/roundabout4.gif

Innovation Innovation 12:37 pm 24 Jul 12

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Most people honk because they are idiots. I’ve been honked for not entering a roundabout because a B-double was using both lanes to ease through and I figured I’d just let let him go.

The best thing to do is simply to drive sensibly, defensively and make sure you are always in full control of your vehicle.

The funniest one I had was a guy that honked me when I was turning off the M2. I paused on a green light because there was a semi turning on my left (and I thought he might go right across without seeing me) and I couldn’t clearly see past the bushes on the right to see if there was any red light runners. The funny bit was this guy then roared past me and 60 km’s later I was still only about 100 metres behind him…..

Rosencrantz Rosencrantz 11:09 am 24 Jul 12

Perhaps an investment in public transport, so that those who don’t really want to drive don’t have to? I tend to think that if you don’t really want to be doing something, you’re probably not going to be that good at it – or interested enough to want to build and improve your skills.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back VYBerlinaV8_is_back 9:30 am 24 Jul 12

Most people honk because they are idiots. I’ve been honked for not entering a roundabout because a B-double was using both lanes to ease through and I figured I’d just let let him go.

The best thing to do is simply to drive sensibly, defensively and make sure you are always in full control of your vehicle.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 8:42 am 24 Jul 12

Sounds like you are doing all the right things, Clare. Don’t change and just ignore the impatient penises that beep at you. 3 seconds of their life is not as important as your own safety.
Whenever someone beeps me I slowly turn around and wave to them.

Antagonist Antagonist 7:36 am 24 Jul 12

troll-sniffer said :

Clare248 said :

I get honked at all the time at stop signs for waiting the required 3 seconds

No wonder! There’s no legal requirement to stop for 3 seconds, all you need to do is come to a complete stop. If the road is clear and visibility good, there’s no reason you can’t procedd 1/4 of a second later. So next time you get honked for needlessly waiting at a stop sign, think about your own command of the road rules.

I have held my drivers license for over 20 years. Even back when I was on my L’s, my instructor was telling me to count to three at a stop sign before proceeding. Then there can be no argument from an officious cop who wants to book you because he thinks you were still rolling forward at 100mm/century. Old Stan even went so far as to instruct me not to check my left and right until after my car has come to a complete stop at the hold line. It usually works out to exactly the same as counting off three before proceeding when the intersection is clear. I have had a handful of people honk their horns over the years … and I rather love it when they look like their head will explode when I blow them a kiss in the rear view mirror. As Stan used to say: “F%#$ them. They can wait a whole three seconds.”

JC JC 7:18 am 24 Jul 12

troll-sniffer said :

Clare248 said :

I get honked at all the time at stop signs for waiting the required 3 seconds

No wonder! There’s no legal requirement to stop for 3 seconds, all you need to do is come to a complete stop. If the road is clear and visibility good, there’s no reason you can’t procedd 1/4 of a second later. So next time you get honked for needlessly waiting at a stop sign, think about your own command of the road rules.

My old man got done for this very thing a month or so back. Plod told him it was 4 seconds. This was on the Central Coast of NSW. But yep cannot find anything in the rules that defines how long the minimum is.

wildturkeycanoe wildturkeycanoe 6:01 am 24 Jul 12

#5 – Tailgating, is only a problem due to #2s,#3s and #4s on the roads, in the right hand lane. Get rid of these issues and #5s will likely go away too.
Some people on here seem to think that extreme driver training might be the way to go. When
I was young and naive, I did an awful lot of Scandinavian flicks, drifting and off road rally action which I still think today has improved my understanding of a vehicle’s limitations and how to control loss of traction. Yet at the same time it probably gave me a little too much confidence and I used these skills to place myself and others in a dangerous situation that ended up teaching me the biggest lesson of all, I am not indestructible. It took me several years before I stopped using a death grip on the seat as a passenger whilst traveling on gravel roads.
Perhaps some kind of real crash simulator may be the only way to teach our learner drivers the consequences of doing the wrong thing in a car. Unfortunately, many people have this experience and it ends up being the first and last lesson they ever get.

Sandman Sandman 10:42 pm 23 Jul 12

troll-sniffer said :

Clare248 said :

I get honked at all the time at stop signs for waiting the required 3 seconds

No wonder! There’s no legal requirement to stop for 3 seconds, all you need to do is come to a complete stop. If the road is clear and visibility good, there’s no reason you can’t procedd 1/4 of a second later. So next time you get honked for needlessly waiting at a stop sign, think about your own command of the road rules.

Just because there’s no legal requirement it doesn’t mean she isn’t entitled to do it. How is crossing an intersection in a car any different than tossing a road on foot? I teach my kids to stop, look left, look right and look left again when crossing the road. That’s an easy 3 seconds, closer to 5 if they’re doing it right.
I’d prefer inexperienced drivers were stopping and having a decent look, rather than the fleeting glance most drivers give at 5pm in the winter when it’s raining and they’re in a rush to get home. That glance isn’t going to spot the dark coloured Camry that’s only just left work and hasn’t realised that their lights aren’t on yet.

Innovation Innovation 9:32 pm 23 Jul 12

troll-sniffer said :

Clare248 said :

I get honked at all the time at stop signs for waiting the required 3 seconds

No wonder! There’s no legal requirement to stop for 3 seconds, all you need to do is come to a complete stop. If the road is clear and visibility good, there’s no reason you can’t procedd 1/4 of a second later. So next time you get honked for needlessly waiting at a stop sign, think about your own command of the road rules.

It might not be legal but I wouldn’t be surprised if some driving instructors teach students to count to 3 to prove to the examiner that they have stopped when they do their test. As for people honking – it’s such a silly thing for someone to get worked up about and arguably it’s not legal for such a minor issue (eg I bet they wouldn’t have tried it on behind a police car).

Postalgeek Postalgeek 9:10 pm 23 Jul 12

Felix the Cat said :

What about at a roundabout, if you are going straight ahead and there are two lanes and someone approaches from the right on the inside lane and you are in the outside lane are you allowed to proceed in the clear lane? I thought you could and had a guy road rage me quite badly two days in a row at the same roundabout. He had his own lane to go around in and was indicating that he was going right.

Forgive me if I’ve got this wrong, but are you asking if it’s okay to drive across traffic entering or that has already entered the roundabout on your right (not the adjacent lane running parallel to yours on your right)?

troll-sniffer troll-sniffer 8:13 pm 23 Jul 12

Clare248 said :

I get honked at all the time at stop signs for waiting the required 3 seconds

No wonder! There’s no legal requirement to stop for 3 seconds, all you need to do is come to a complete stop. If the road is clear and visibility good, there’s no reason you can’t procedd 1/4 of a second later. So next time you get honked for needlessly waiting at a stop sign, think about your own command of the road rules.

Clare248 Clare248 5:38 pm 23 Jul 12

Having obtained my P’s just under a year ago (I’m not a hoon, I promise), indicating out of a roundabout is required in the log book and the test and they do pick on it. I now do it out of habit from the 80+ learner hours I did and the lessons I had.

In regards to driving in general but also stop signs in particular, I find that I am pressured consistently in situations where I do not feel safe to proceed. I get honked at all the time at stop signs for waiting the required 3 seconds, I get honked at when parking or getting out of a park. Yes, while parking, I may take a little more time but I’m sure you’d rather I straightened up or didn’t scrape your car.

Along with this, I get pressured to overtake people who for example are sitting on 80 (L platers) in a 90 along Parkes way. Slowing down behind them causes me no problem and I’m rarely in such a rush that 5 minutes at 80, rather than 90 means much to me.

The differences in licensing laws in the ACT and NSW causes me much grief in regards to my required speed limits. I have been pulled over multiple time along the Hume for allegedly speeding (over 90km) because my P Plates are red.
I have talked my way out of fines due to the NSW police not fully understanding that a) I am allowed to drive at the sign posted limit in NSW, and b) I have no passenger curfews.

I find that driving on the highway is unnerving as people assume I’m 90 restricted when I’m not, overtake, and pull in front of me, not more than 20 metres and drop to 100 when I’m at 110. As a result, I have to brake suddenly and significantly.

I feel as if holding my provisional license is a license for road users to hurl abuse at me assume I’m a bad driver.

Felix the Cat Felix the Cat 4:06 pm 23 Jul 12

At page 43 of the road rules link posted by Duffbowl there is a picture of two cars travelling side by side approaching an intersection and both wanting to turn left. I couldn’t see any reference in the rules as to if it is legal for a single car turning left to drift across the lanes as they turn the corner. Or if cars coming from the right are allowed to drift across the lanes while turning (stopping the left turning car from continuing). Gungahlin Dr/Gundaroo Dr Gungahlin intersection is a good one for this where the drivers coming from the Woolies/Coles servos and turning right to go to Nicholls often (mostly) drift across the lanes while turning.

What about at a roundabout, if you are going straight ahead and there are two lanes and someone approaches from the right on the inside lane and you are in the outside lane are you allowed to proceed in the clear lane? I thought you could and had a guy road rage me quite badly two days in a row at the same roundabout. He had his own lane to go around in and was indicating that he was going right.

Duffbowl Duffbowl 3:19 pm 23 Jul 12

Seems a few folk are unsure / unaware that some of the irritating habits of other drivers are actually law.

Might I recommend a refamiliarisation with the road rules?
http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/ni/2010-113/current/pdf/2010-113.pdf

Antagonist Antagonist 2:31 pm 23 Jul 12

KB1971 said :

Antagonist said :

Oh – and missiles mounted to the front of all cars to take care of those pesky cyclists.

Dont worry, I have my invisible force field to deflect missiles………….

Touche.

Discjockey Discjockey 2:28 pm 23 Jul 12

The only way real resolve these issues are as follows;

1) Technology,

Speed limiting devices on motor vehicles for offenders is the only way to control speeding properly. Kids will pretend to be safety sam and constable koala when they’re going for their license no matter what, to get your L’s these days requires a ridiculous amount of log book hours and pointless hazard simulation exercises that aren’t generalizable to real situations.

2) Obligatory licence applications at 65

Some government department needs to figure out on average when people start to experience degeneration in the senses then introduce legislation ensuring older drivers are capable of driving in existing conditions. The gov should look at modified licenses to address issues

3) Tougher lesislation

There is nothing more dangerous then when you fly up an exit only to find that the retarded muppet in front of you has stopped and you have to slam on your breaks because they don’t know how to merge and are ‘waiting for an opportunity’. Canberra is in desperate need of an advertisement campaign in this area.

4) Tougher legislation again

Only in the area of merging and indicating though, so many retarded Canberrans indicate that they’re turning when they’re half way through the roundabout rather then when they’re approaching it. This forces people to slam on their brakes.
I love seeing people indicating when exiting a roundabout though, because going straight and indicating left isn’t confusing and pointless (no sarcasm there folks, really)

5)

Pffft just slam on your brakes, if you get rear ended the tail gaters at fault they’ll end up a LOT poorer

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