16 October 2013

Anti-vaccination nutjob being promoted by The Hierophant

| Masquara
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I don’t mind too much the Hierophant herbalist above the Griffith Shops charging high prices for plastic dragon and dolphin figurines, and if many of their clients are people whose “spiritual” schtick is to buy blown glass “cosmic” objects made in sweatshops by Chinese workers, I guess whether that’s ultimately harmful is for economics experts. But I think the Hierophant has crossed a line by promoting this anti-vaccination nutjob. Here is the text of a flyer (minus a photo of “Dr” Golden that I can’t figure out how to post) that the Hierophant is promoting. And he is almost certainly NOT a medical doctor. (And wasn’t an anti-vaccination network with similar dangerous messages ordered by a court to stop its promotions last year?)

Homeoprophylaxis – A clinical overview for Implementation of HP Programs – Dr Isaac Golden

Homeoprophylaxis is still a controversial issue for many homeopaths and other practitioners and its history and evidentiary base is frequently misunderstood. Dr Isaac Golden, a leading expert in this field has offered to deliver a talk over 4 sessions to a diversity of practitioners and students of any modality, to assist in further education on this subject as well as the treatment of vaccine damage – from autism and ADHD to asthma and eczema.

Topics covered:

The immunisation controversy will be discussed frankly.

The identification and treatment of vaccine damaged children will occupy the first part of the seminar. Isaac will present new research relating to both treatment protocols as well as a Materia Medica of some common vaccines.

The second part of the seminar will focus on the evidence base of homoeoprophylaxis (homeopathic immunisation) for both long-term and short-term protection. The now considerable international evidence supporting both the effectiveness and safety will be presented.

Practitioners will be presented with practical options to offer their patients, and as much time as is required will be devoted to answering questions.

Date: Sunday 17th November 2013

Time: 9:30am – 4:30

Cost : Practitioner – $200 / Student – $120

Venue : The Hierophant , 6 Barker Street Griffith ACT – upstairs at the Griffith Shops

Bookings are essential and payment must be made when booking

Phone the Hierophant on 02 xxxxxx to ensure your place or email xxxx@cbit.net.au for further enquiries.

[Ed – I’ve written it 10,000 times, but email images to images@the-riotact.com ]

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Tenpenny, Golden, Weed.

Are those names for real?

Update & community health warning: You’d think that years after the anti-vaxxers were banned from promoting their dangerous message, The Hierophant would have reconsidered their approach. However, they have just advertised that they are hosting infamous anti-vaccination campaigner and anti-vaxxer nut job “Susun Weed” for a workshop on 18 November 2016. Sorry to revive an old thread re a new development.

Update: in the light of current controversy being covered by the ABC (dangerous anti-vaxxer Sherri Tenpenny tour slated for March 2015) here’s the upshot for “Dr” Golden in December 2014: https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/court-finds-homeopathy-plus-vaccine-claims-misleading
And here are the court orders:
https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/FEDERAL/P/NSD256/2013/order_list

lostinbias said :

BimboGeek said :

I take a completely different herb for colds, it’s just not very well known in Canberra.

There’s only one herb worth taking in Canberra…

Oh, I only take that one homeopathically. The side effects are too intense for me otherwise.

BimboGeek said :

I take a completely different herb for colds, it’s just not very well known in Canberra.

There’s only one herb worth taking in Canberra…

poetix said :

By the way, thank you for posting this, Masquara. You are an observant person!

Happy to do what I can – the thought of any Canberra parents going through what those poor Northern NSW parents did a few years ago who lost their baby to whooping cough after falling for evil Isaac Golden type spin, is just awful.
(I got the info from a friend of mine who is subscribed to Hierophant’s email list … )

By the way, thank you for posting this, Masquara. You are an observant person!

Gungahlin Al said :

intaba said :

BimboGeek said :

So has anyone found out where this dude got his PhD and in what field? I’m guessing Cayman Islands or his American friend’s university and complimentary medicine.

Swinburne
http://www.homstudy.net/publications/about.html

http://researchbank.swinburne.edu.au/vital/access/manager/Repository/swin:7488

“The effectiveness and safety of Golden’s long-term HP program using homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients was tested through two research projects. The effectiveness of the program could not be established with statistical certainty given the limited sample size and the low probability of acquiring an infectious disease.”

Title
The potential value of homoeoprophylaxis in the long-term prevention of infectious diseases, and the maintenance of general health in recipients

Author(s)
Golden, Isaac

Abstract
Homoeoprophylaxis (HP) is the use of homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients. Its first use in an epidemic of Scarlet Fever was documented in 1801. It has been used throughout the world since then for both short-term and long-term preventative purposes. The effectiveness and safety of Golden’s long-term HP program using homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients was tested through two research projects. The effectiveness of the program could not be established with statistical certainty given the limited sample size and the low probability of acquiring an infectious disease. However, a possible level of effectiveness of 90.3% was identified subject to specified limitations. Further research to confirm the effectiveness of the program is justified. Statistically significant results were obtained that confirmed the safety of the program both in absolute terms as well as compared to all other methods of disease prevention studied. It also appeared possible that a national immunisation system where both vaccination and HP were available to parents would increase the national coverage against targeted infectious diseases, and reduce the incidence of some chronic health conditions, especially asthma.

Publication type
Thesis (PhD)

Research centre
Swinburne University of Technology. Graduate School of Integrative Medicine

Publication year
2002

From the report itself:

The research reported in this thesis is not perfect, especially when estimating the
effectiveness of HP. However, many of the identified weaknesses in the research could
be corrected if a much larger data base of responses was obtained. This challenge is
fundamentally a matter of resources, as the collection of the data in this study has been
time consuming and, on an individual level, expensive.
However, the General Health Study in particular could readily be expanded to obtain
many thousands of responses, especially if support was received from State Education
departments to distribute the questionnaire in primary schools nationwide, and attempts
to block the research were not made by State Health Departments, as occurred during
this research.
Secondly, it would be ideal if a long-term study was undertaken involving parents
who (1) had decided not to vaccinate their child and (2) who were unconcerned if their
child contracted Measles.
In such cases a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomised trial could be
undertaken to obtain statistically significant evidence as to the effectiveness and safety
of HP against Measles.
In fact a pilot of such a study was proposed as part of this thesis, but was rejected by
the ethics committee.
Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent over the years researching vaccines.
A mere fraction of these resources would easily cover the costs of the above two
research projects, and would enable a conclusive scientific finding as to whether HP can
provide a safe and effective means of disease prevention.

So what it is saying is that it was flawed research, and found nothing conclusive, therefore a really well-funded study would be required to prove its hypothesis wrong. Lovely circuitous “logic”…

I can find no record of the thesis being accepted and published in a peer-reviewed journal.

I call shenanigans. Swinburne, you should be embarrassed.

Sounds very specious.

An academic once told a cautionary tale about some of these PHDs, particularly in the sciences and maths. Yes, they’re technically very intelligent, but also frequently unhinged. He told of one he knew who could master the longest equations, but undermined himself by genuinely claiming to people that he calculated he was a reincarnation of someone famous. No joke.

Gungahlin Al said :

intaba said :

BimboGeek said :

So has anyone found out where this dude got his PhD and in what field? I’m guessing Cayman Islands or his American friend’s university and complimentary medicine.

Swinburne
http://www.homstudy.net/publications/about.html

http://researchbank.swinburne.edu.au/vital/access/manager/Repository/swin:7488

“The effectiveness and safety of Golden’s long-term HP program using homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients was tested through two research projects. The effectiveness of the program could not be established with statistical certainty given the limited sample size and the low probability of acquiring an infectious disease.”

Title
The potential value of homoeoprophylaxis in the long-term prevention of infectious diseases, and the maintenance of general health in recipients

Author(s)
Golden, Isaac

Abstract
Homoeoprophylaxis (HP) is the use of homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients. Its first use in an epidemic of Scarlet Fever was documented in 1801. It has been used throughout the world since then for both short-term and long-term preventative purposes. The effectiveness and safety of Golden’s long-term HP program using homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients was tested through two research projects. The effectiveness of the program could not be established with statistical certainty given the limited sample size and the low probability of acquiring an infectious disease. However, a possible level of effectiveness of 90.3% was identified subject to specified limitations. Further research to confirm the effectiveness of the program is justified. Statistically significant results were obtained that confirmed the safety of the program both in absolute terms as well as compared to all other methods of disease prevention studied. It also appeared possible that a national immunisation system where both vaccination and HP were available to parents would increase the national coverage against targeted infectious diseases, and reduce the incidence of some chronic health conditions, especially asthma.

Publication type
Thesis (PhD)

Research centre
Swinburne University of Technology. Graduate School of Integrative Medicine

Publication year
2002

From the report itself:

The research reported in this thesis is not perfect, especially when estimating the
effectiveness of HP. However, many of the identified weaknesses in the research could
be corrected if a much larger data base of responses was obtained. This challenge is
fundamentally a matter of resources, as the collection of the data in this study has been
time consuming and, on an individual level, expensive.
However, the General Health Study in particular could readily be expanded to obtain
many thousands of responses, especially if support was received from State Education
departments to distribute the questionnaire in primary schools nationwide, and attempts
to block the research were not made by State Health Departments, as occurred during
this research.
Secondly, it would be ideal if a long-term study was undertaken involving parents
who (1) had decided not to vaccinate their child and (2) who were unconcerned if their
child contracted Measles.
In such cases a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomised trial could be
undertaken to obtain statistically significant evidence as to the effectiveness and safety
of HP against Measles.
In fact a pilot of such a study was proposed as part of this thesis, but was rejected by
the ethics committee.
Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent over the years researching vaccines.
A mere fraction of these resources would easily cover the costs of the above two
research projects, and would enable a conclusive scientific finding as to whether HP can
provide a safe and effective means of disease prevention.

So what it is saying is that it was flawed research, and found nothing conclusive, therefore a really well-funded study would be required to prove its hypothesis wrong. Lovely circuitous “logic”…

I can find no record of the thesis being accepted and published in a peer-reviewed journal.

I call shenanigans. Swinburne, you should be embarrassed.

Sounds very specious.

Buckaroo_Banzai said :

BimboGeek said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4034

Yes a very good point raised here. If you tell people there’s nothing but lactose in that pill they do get very defensive as if you’re attacking herbal medicines.

Some naturopaths are good people and reading every scrap of research on herbal medicine. Many of these medicinal plants are really potent. St John’s Wort, Passionflower, Cannabis, Opium, Echinacia, nobody doubts for a second that these work.

Except maybe scientists.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/echinacea-for-cold-and-flu/

Yeah, echinacea is about as effective as any other placebo, but on the other hand I have no doubt that cannabis and cocaine “work”, however you wish to define the word. 🙂

And St Johns Wort certainly “works” in some way. I took some many years ago amidst the wreckage of my first awful marriage. I clearly remember that it made me feel totally zoned and kind of detached from the world…disassociated is the term, I think. I hated the sensation and haven’t touched it since.

johnboy said :

when the grauniad pays for us they can dictate our editorial policies and not before.

“The Grauniad”…and I thought I was the only one in Australia. 🙂 I subscribed to that grand old organ for almost a decade. Maybe I should have another go…

Buckaroo_Banzai said :

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/echinacea-for-cold-and-flu/

I never said it worked well! 😀 And I’m quite happy to be convinced that it doesn’t work, that’s entirely the point I was making. I take a completely different herb for colds, it’s just not very well known in Canberra. The studies conducted so far seem to support its traditional use to stop colds from turning into pneumonia and since I’ve had pneumonia more than once I’m particularly at risk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideritis

What bugs me though is seeing herbal medicine unregulated. The industry is less controlled than food, even. People do get sick because of contamination or inaccurate dose, or because they are told something can’t interfere with another medicine they are taking.

Buckaroo_Banzai3:46 pm 17 Oct 13

BimboGeek said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4034

Yes a very good point raised here. If you tell people there’s nothing but lactose in that pill they do get very defensive as if you’re attacking herbal medicines.

Some naturopaths are good people and reading every scrap of research on herbal medicine. Many of these medicinal plants are really potent. St John’s Wort, Passionflower, Cannabis, Opium, Echinacia, nobody doubts for a second that these work.

Except maybe scientists.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/echinacea-for-cold-and-flu/

lostinbias said :

I reckon there should be warning labels on homeopathic remedies similar to those on cigarette packets that essentially say “this does not work”, but maybe worded a little more diplomatically.
.

Maybe a picture of a baby dead from Whooping Cough with the words, “Your ignorant beliefs kill babies”?

Erg0 said :

According the the Health Department, “since 2002, measles incidence in Australia has ranged between 0.5 and 6 cases per million population”. Good luck finding a meaningful sample size based on, at most, 150 cases per year…

Thinking about this some more, how would you establish a control group in a homeopathy trial? Would they be forbidden from drinking water for the duration of the study period?

Gungahlin Al2:32 pm 17 Oct 13

astrojax said :

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/16/anti-vaccination-activists-should-not-be-given-a-say-in-the-media

this. um, so mebbe riotact should delete this story? 🙂

Read more than the headline. @DrRachie is calling for an end to so called “balance” in reporting when the “opposing side” are just nutjobs but still get equal coverage.

This RA post is hardly giving an un-critiqued run to this nutjob.

when the grauniad pays for us they can dictate our editorial policies and not before.

YeahBuddy said :

There was a Law and Order: SVU episode about something like this once.

I remember that one. Hilary Duff guest starred.

Gungahlin Al2:05 pm 17 Oct 13

Here’s an interesting in-browser (not <=IE8) model of how herd immunity works and why it's important:
http://op12no2.me/toys/herd/index.php
There are 8 scenarios, read the description for each then hit play.

According the the Health Department, “since 2002, measles incidence in Australia has ranged between 0.5 and 6 cases per million population”. Good luck finding a meaningful sample size based on, at most, 150 cases per year…

Gungahlin Al1:02 pm 17 Oct 13

intaba said :

BimboGeek said :

So has anyone found out where this dude got his PhD and in what field? I’m guessing Cayman Islands or his American friend’s university and complimentary medicine.

Swinburne
http://www.homstudy.net/publications/about.html

http://researchbank.swinburne.edu.au/vital/access/manager/Repository/swin:7488

“The effectiveness and safety of Golden’s long-term HP program using homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients was tested through two research projects. The effectiveness of the program could not be established with statistical certainty given the limited sample size and the low probability of acquiring an infectious disease.”

Title
The potential value of homoeoprophylaxis in the long-term prevention of infectious diseases, and the maintenance of general health in recipients

Author(s)
Golden, Isaac

Abstract
Homoeoprophylaxis (HP) is the use of homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients. Its first use in an epidemic of Scarlet Fever was documented in 1801. It has been used throughout the world since then for both short-term and long-term preventative purposes. The effectiveness and safety of Golden’s long-term HP program using homoeopathically prepared substances to prevent targeted infectious diseases in recipients was tested through two research projects. The effectiveness of the program could not be established with statistical certainty given the limited sample size and the low probability of acquiring an infectious disease. However, a possible level of effectiveness of 90.3% was identified subject to specified limitations. Further research to confirm the effectiveness of the program is justified. Statistically significant results were obtained that confirmed the safety of the program both in absolute terms as well as compared to all other methods of disease prevention studied. It also appeared possible that a national immunisation system where both vaccination and HP were available to parents would increase the national coverage against targeted infectious diseases, and reduce the incidence of some chronic health conditions, especially asthma.

Publication type
Thesis (PhD)

Research centre
Swinburne University of Technology. Graduate School of Integrative Medicine

Publication year
2002

From the report itself:

The research reported in this thesis is not perfect, especially when estimating the
effectiveness of HP. However, many of the identified weaknesses in the research could
be corrected if a much larger data base of responses was obtained. This challenge is
fundamentally a matter of resources, as the collection of the data in this study has been
time consuming and, on an individual level, expensive.
However, the General Health Study in particular could readily be expanded to obtain
many thousands of responses, especially if support was received from State Education
departments to distribute the questionnaire in primary schools nationwide, and attempts
to block the research were not made by State Health Departments, as occurred during
this research.
Secondly, it would be ideal if a long-term study was undertaken involving parents
who (1) had decided not to vaccinate their child and (2) who were unconcerned if their
child contracted Measles.
In such cases a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomised trial could be
undertaken to obtain statistically significant evidence as to the effectiveness and safety
of HP against Measles.
In fact a pilot of such a study was proposed as part of this thesis, but was rejected by
the ethics committee.
Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent over the years researching vaccines.
A mere fraction of these resources would easily cover the costs of the above two
research projects, and would enable a conclusive scientific finding as to whether HP can
provide a safe and effective means of disease prevention.

So what it is saying is that it was flawed research, and found nothing conclusive, therefore a really well-funded study would be required to prove its hypothesis wrong. Lovely circuitous “logic”…

I can find no record of the thesis being accepted and published in a peer-reviewed journal.

I call shenanigans. Swinburne, you should be embarrassed.

BimboGeek said :

So has anyone found out where this dude got his PhD and in what field? I’m guessing Cayman Islands or his American friend’s university and complimentary medicine.

Swinburne
http://www.homstudy.net/publications/about.html

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4034

Yes a very good point raised here. If you tell people there’s nothing but lactose in that pill they do get very defensive as if you’re attacking herbal medicines.

Some naturopaths are good people and reading every scrap of research on herbal medicine. Many of these medicinal plants are really potent. St John’s Wort, Passionflower, Cannabis, Opium, Echinacia, nobody doubts for a second that these work. Others don’t have the benefits traditionally associated with them or aren’t nearly as strong as you imagine. You can get into trouble with naturopaths a few ways. First, they might prescribe a simple pick me up that turns out to be a powerful stimulant or a calm me down that turns out to be a powerful anti depressant. Then when you take a Western medicine for a related or unrelated illness there could be a nasty interaction, toxicity or whatever. Secondly, your remedy might prove ineffective. This is not so bad or at least it’s not as bad as homeopathy where the stuff has been proven not to work ever.

So has anyone found out where this dude got his PhD and in what field? I’m guessing Cayman Islands or his American friend’s university and complimentary medicine.

OpenYourMind10:43 pm 16 Oct 13

I’d love to sell a tank of my specially brewed Homeopathic petrol to a homeopath. It’s not actually petrol, it’s water, but it has the ‘memory’ of petrol.

I reckon there should be warning labels on homeopathic remedies similar to those on cigarette packets that essentially say “this does not work”, but maybe worded a little more diplomatically.

They could also put them on the doors of naturopathic practices and whatnot.

If I ever feel like getting really angry, I read alternative medicine websites on the internet.

So the way the “like cures like” part works is “Hmmm those symptoms look like heavy metal poisoning, I suppose it’s not, but giving arsenic will shock the body into overreacting to both causes.”

The way the dilution works is that things can be in various levels of dilution from very weak to none at all, depending on the “strength” of the treatment prescribed by the homeopath. More diluted treatments are supposed to be stronger because magic, and if the homeopath decides you need a more gentle treatment you will possibly be given a very small dose of whatever poison they think is brilliant here.

It gets confusing when a particular drug or herb becomes trendy but hasn’t been approved yet so you buy a “homeopathic preparation” of it, or if people decide it’s cheaper to make a homeopathic remedy of some expensive product like gold and saffron or something.

The other problem is if the water it’s made from is contaminated or if the sugar pills have been bought really cheaply from a company that doesn’t have safe manufacturing processes. Or if the packet it’s put into is contaminated. Because homeopathic dealers tend to be small shonky operators, it’s a bit like buying herbs in that there’s nowhere near the oversight that drug companies have to prove themselves compliant with. Lots of herbal medicines and supplements are also laced with heavy metals for no good reason.

It could be worse. I read recently a report on the adulterants in cocaine and it turns out that stuff is getting cut with a drug that damages your immune system a little bit more each time you take it because it looks like cocaine and passes all the high school chemistry level tests that you can easily do with household ingredients to prove your coke is pure. I don’t think the herb and homeopathic suppliers are doing anything as carelessly harmful as cocaine manufacturers but I’m sure they aren’t all as smart as they think they are and haven’t been properly educated in laboratory technique.

Whilst I detest pharmaceutical companies, I do believe most doctors are pretty good. They go through a intensive period of study and vocational training.

I finding disturbing that this homeopathy is legal in this country, given that it does present the view to the consumer that it is a proven effective methodology for curing ailments. Much in the same league as fortune telling and astrologer (pretty sure some countries these professions are illegal to practice). Sounds like fraud to me, IMHO.

Remove welfare benefits to those who are not vaccinated, and exclude them from schools where kids are vaccinated. See how that works. If I recall there was a school a couple of years back which had a little problem with an outbreak due to a lack of vaccinations amongst students…(Orana?)

YeahBuddy said :

There was a Law and Order: SVU episode about something like this once.

Come back when it’s on NCIS. 😉

gentoopenguin5:23 pm 16 Oct 13

If people are in any doubt about whether they should vaccinate their kids, then they should google image search the diseases vaccinated against to see what it is they are risking. Not pretty.

What a fool. Doctor indeed. And they are pitching this at other doctors, presumably of homeopathy?? No GP in their right mind would buy into this.

el said :

Erg0 said :

This is interesting, as I was under the impression that homeopathic treatments contained no substances at all. Please tell me they’re not adding potentially dangerous crap to their non-treatments.

If you consider arsenic ‘potentially dangerous crap’, then yes, yes they are.

But…are we really talking about “arsenic”, or are we talking about “water that contains a memory of arsenic”?

I thought the latter was what Homeopathy is all about?

Erg0 said :

This is interesting, as I was under the impression that homeopathic treatments contained no substances at all. Please tell me they’re not adding potentially dangerous crap to their non-treatments.

If you consider arsenic ‘potentially dangerous crap’, then yes, yes they are.

Zan said :

mossrocket said :

… homeopaths replace doctors as sources of medical advice.

Judging by what was on Insight last night, doctors do not know everything, just what the pharmaceutical companies tell them.

Uh-huh – so, “doctors don’t know anything”, therefore you will trust a Homeopath, who are people who essentially sharing with you their store of negative knowledge.

What s***s me about these anti vaccination nut jobs is they rely on the rest of society to immunise their kids to keep the herd safe. If everyone stopped immunising we would be in real trouble, so the select few who must be more important than the rest of us get the safety of herd immunisation while not vaccinating their own kids.

I have immunised my child and it is heart breaking watching them cry and seeing them suffer over a few days to get over it. But I see it as an important process that we all must do. to all those who rely on the rst of us to vaccinate our kids so you don’t have to, F##k you.

c_c™ said :

Regarding Homeopathy in general, the WHO concluded in a report that many homeopathy treatments contain substances that can be hazardous if dispensed in too high a concentration, and some are potentially dangerous at any concentration.

This is interesting, as I was under the impression that homeopathic treatments contained no substances at all. Please tell me they’re not adding potentially dangerous crap to their non-treatments.

This is a bit like some of the “Chinese Medicine Doctors” practicing in Canberra.

They use a name like Dr Fred Smith (CM), when in fact they are not doctors. AHPRA actually registers them as “Chinese Herbal Medicine Practitioner”. Most of them simply do acupuncture and provide herbal remedies, but somehow they manage to get away calling themsleves Dr?

A check of the AHPRA database shows no one by the name Isaac Golden is or has been registered. So he’s definitely not a medical practitioner.

Regarding Homeopathy in general, the WHO concluded in a report that many homeopathy treatments contain substances that can be hazardous if dispensed in too high a concentration, and some are potentially dangerous at any concentration. Much like vaccines and for that matter any 21st century medicine, the difference is those are heavily tested and subject to recalls if problems emerge. Homeopaths on the other hand are free to trade in their snake oil as they wish, all the while claiming it’s safer.

There was a Law and Order: SVU episode about something like this once.

Gungahlin Al12:56 pm 16 Oct 13

100% with you on this one Masquara.

How some people can hang on so desperately to this “vaccination causes autism” crap defies my ability to comprehend. The original “study” was a fraud. It’s been pulled and shot down by numerous other credible studies.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-01-06/autism-vaccine-study-an-elaborate-fraud/1896798

(BTW AVN was told they had to change their misleading name.)

Yet decades later, here we are still having this same stupid “debate”. Just like climate change.
Take one 20-round magazine, 19 live bullets, one blank. Randomly insert bullets into magazine. Insert magazine, point gun at your child. Pull trigger.

I’m surprised that you’re surprised. The Heirophant is just another new-age mumbo-jumbo snake oil merchant. Birds of a feather and all that.

eyeLikeCarrots11:43 am 16 Oct 13

Wonderful….. now he’s making money out of the AV lunacy…

I’m tempted to go. Its worth the $200 to show up and throw a bucket of blood on him.

Apparently the world is flat, the climate isin’t changing at all and we should all be thinking about bloodletitng as a cure for everything from hayfever to AIDS.

…I think it’s criminally negligent to put your own children at risk….and unconscionable to put other children at risk because you’re an ignorant hick who believes any conspiracy theory thrown at you no matter how flawed and dubious it is.

No only their children but the people who they come into contact with the said children.

mossrocket said :

… homeopaths replace doctors as sources of medical advice.

Judging by what was on Insight last night, doctors do not know everything, just what the pharmaceutical companies tell them.

One nutjob promoting another. Is that such a surprise?

thebrownstreak6910:46 am 16 Oct 13

zorro29 said :

I think it’s criminally negligent to put your own children at risk….and unconscionable to put other children at risk because you’re an ignorant hick who believes any conspiracy theory thrown at you no matter how flawed and dubious it is.

+ a shiteload. Vaccination is cheap, easy, and very effective. Vaccinate your kids!

beejay76 said :

Good lord, and they’re charging a fortune for this rubbish. This winds me up. “Vaccine damaged children”: what a load of tosh. I’m looking forward to the day when someone brings a class action against dicks like these for damages when their “homeoprophylaxis” fails to protect children from harm.

+1 (I think there may have been a case in the US of negligent homicide recently but I don’t think they made it stick)

The thing is that babies under 6 months (or maybe 12 but I forget) can’t receive the MMR vaccine and (therefore) are at fatal risk from unvaccinated children. Toddlers can usually deal with the mumps but babies can’t.

It’s highly irresponsible and based on “science” that was cooked up by a vaccine production company that produced just the measles vaccine (or one of them) and didn’t want this triple vaccination as it would put them out of business. Then it turned out that making this stuff up was making them money as well so they stuck with the lies.

The risks from the vaccinations are minute and all medications have risks.

In many states in the US, unvaccinated children can not be enrolled in a public school. I didn’t keep track on the progress of this in Aust (did NSW end up implementing this?)…someone else may know.

I think it’s criminally negligent to put your own children at risk….and unconscionable to put other children at risk because you’re an ignorant hick who believes any conspiracy theory thrown at you no matter how flawed and dubious it is.

Here’s a good introduction to Homeopathy by the UKs national health service: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/homeopathy/pages/introduction.aspx

and here’s a great debunking website: http://www.1023.org.uk/why-you-cant-trust-homeopathy.php

Why You Can’t Trust Homeopathy

It doesn’t work

When tested under rigorous conditions – when neither the patient nor the doctor knows whether they’re using homeopathy or not until all of the tests are done – homeopathy has shown to work no better than a sugar pill. That doesn’t mean people do not feel better after taking homeopathy; only that those feelings aren’t related to the homeopathy. This is known as the placebo effect and is often misunderstood. Conventional medicine also has a placebo effect, on top of its other benefits.

The choice between medicine and homeopathy comes down to a simple question: would you have a placebo, or a placebo plus a treatment that has been proven to work?

Doctors of Homeopathy are qualified in nothing, so their opinion is worth nothing.

Unfortunately, as shown by this course, homeopathy can have surprising and dangerous side-effects.

These have nothing to do directly with any particular homeopathic remedy (as they are only sugar pills or water) but rather they are an indirect result of what happens when homeopaths replace doctors as sources of medical advice.

Good lord, and they’re charging a fortune for this rubbish. This winds me up. “Vaccine damaged children”: what a load of tosh. I’m looking forward to the day when someone brings a class action against dicks like these for damages when their “homeoprophylaxis” fails to protect children from harm.

Ugh. My favourite bit is where they promise to frankly “discuss” the immunusation “controversy”, followed by diagnosing people with diseases caused by immunisation. The only misunderstanding of homeopathy’s “history and evidentiary base” is by people who think that either exists.

CrocodileGandhi9:33 am 16 Oct 13

The AVN weren’t ordered to stop their promotions. They were ordered to explicitly state that their operations are “Anti Vaccination”. Previously they were stating that they were providing information in order for people to make choices about vaccinations. Yet even a cursory glance at their materials shows that it is 100% against vaccinations and doesn’t in any way provide the possibility of a rational choice.

There’s also the fact that what they’ve been saying is entirely rubbish, has been demonstrably discredited and is extremely dangerous.

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