5 September 2011

ANU speed limits

| dtc
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speed limits

Now that everyone is excited about road signs and Australian standards, I though I would submit a photo of my favourites – 3 signs, 3 speeds, all within 15m of each other.

Leading up to the 40km/h sign the speed limit is either 50 or 60km/h (I’m not sure), meaning the speed limit goes 60, 40, 20 and then 10 – all within a distance of 15m.

Given the location – Hutton Street, leading into the ANU (and into a car park), its hardly going to cause any problems.

But it always amuses me.

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Henry82 said :

Doesn’t matter – Everyone will ignore all 3 signs and drive at their own speed (including Police/ANU Security)

+1

I’m yet to see anyone travelling less that 40kmh in ANU 10 or 20kmh zones. Similarly, I’m yet see cars giving way to pedestrians or cyclists in the ‘shared zone’ on Childers Street.

They probably take Canberra’s unique and relaxed approach to following posted speed limits into account, posting a 10km limit in the expectation that people will travel @ 30-40kmh instead of 60 or more.

I’m yet to see anyone get booked at ANU (other than for parking that is)

The 40 km/h sign doesn’t comply with AS1743 as being a genuine speed limit sign. That of course doesn’t mean the 40 km/h campus limit is not legally enforceable though.

The physical 20 sign does appear to comply with AS1743, but due to being mounted too close to other signs, it does not comply with AS1742.4.

It’s difficult to tell if the 10 km/h sign complies with AS1743, but it could be argued that it does not comply with AS1742.4, unless the red sign underneath it is specified for use with speed limit signs as an auxiliary sign. I doubt it though.

The special 40 unless otherwise signposted signs on campus are not needed. All the ANU needs is “40 AREA” signs and “END 40 AREA” signs at each entrance and exit to the property. Along with proper road engineering to ensure that no motorist is comfortable exceeding that speed at any point on campus.

In areas that are going to see an abundance of pedestrian traffic, the road needs to be engineered in a manner that will ensure no motorist is comfortable exceeding 10-20 km/h for that point. Example of such a road in the UK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_Road,_Brighton_-_shared_space.jpg

To join the debate on the William Slim 80/60/80 speed limits – I guess you have to actually travel this road to understand how silly the signage is – nothing to do with the roundabouts as I think consensus is it would be hard to do the legal limit on most. The bottom stretch of Owen-Dixon Drive (which joins William Slim at a roundabout) is 80 with 60 most of the way down the road. The next speed sign seen is 60 after exiting the roundabout until the next roundabout – a short section. Yet itis only 60 on that section of William Slim when travelling to Belconnen. When travelling to Gungahlin it is 80. I guess this is confussing for many as I am often behind drivers doing 60 in the 80 and then speed up doing 80 in the 60.

Yes this road sign banter is all rather exciting.

Incidentally, the road from this corner and around the front of uni lodge is a shared 40 zone if I recall correctly. However, the signs are tiny and mounted on 2.5m high poles in places that make them difficult to see. At least from some of the driving I have seen around there, drivers don’t seem to notice them.

gazket said :

buzz819 said :

Innovation said :

Also, Buzz819 isn’t the maximum speed limit on all roundabouts 60k’s unless a lower speed limit is posted? If so, are you saying that the speed limit over the whole stretch should be 60k’s.

Umm no. The speed limit of a roundabout is the same limit as the road it is on. But you thinking that does explain why people are so confused about roundabouts.

no it isn’t round a bouts are give way intersections. you have to slow and be able to stop. I think you will find in the A.C.T roundabout speed limits are 40KP/H but it’s never enforced.

Yes, you have to be able to stop, good work, now you run along and find in the Australian Road Rules where it says 40 km/h is a maximum speed around roundabouts.

buzz819 said :

Innovation said :

Also, Buzz819 isn’t the maximum speed limit on all roundabouts 60k’s unless a lower speed limit is posted? If so, are you saying that the speed limit over the whole stretch should be 60k’s.

Umm no. The speed limit of a roundabout is the same limit as the road it is on. But you thinking that does explain why people are so confused about roundabouts.

1/ I’ll happily admit that I’m sure there are aspects of the 396 pages of road rules (for the ACT alone) that I don’t have down pat. Hence why I’m an advocate for regular (at least theory) testing for all road users.
2/ I’m keen for you to explain how my misunderstanding what the maximum possible speed limit in unmarked roundabouts would cause confusion when using roundabouts in general, especially since this assumption is no reflection of the speed that I would actually do in a roundabout.
3/ So, in the example on William Slim that you gave, are you saying that you want to still do 80km/h through those roundabouts or would rather do 60km/h for the entire length of road?
4/ And in giving your earlier answer to my original question, did you look up the road rules to be sure or have you memorised all 396 pages and your knowledge of road rules is flawless? If the latter, can I say, well done Rainman?

1/ Testing is good. Looking up rules is also simple and fast.

2/ Why is it a reflection on the general confusion on roundabouts? If you don’t know the rules, I’m guessing there a few hundred if not thousand in the same boat as you, that is why, trying to make you feel like less of a minority and trying to push you up into a majority I am.

3/There are about a few roads I can think of in Canberra that have a number or roundabouts in the same stretch such as this, Gundaroo Drive, it is 80 all the way along, Isabella Drive, 80 all the way along, Drakeford/Tharwa Drive, 80 all the way, Erindale Drive, 80 all the way, Gungahlin Drive, 80, Athllon Drive 80… They are all 80km/h. Why is it that one road needs to have 6 speed zone changes in, and I’ve just measured it, 6 speed zone changes in 1.5km.

4/ I looked it up, not that hard when all you have to do is type it into google. I didn’t need to read the WHOLE 396 pages, just the areas covering speed limits and roundabouts, took me maybe three or four minutes. Knowing the ENTIRE road rules doesn’t really need a Rainman mind, just common sense, something lacking in a lot of people I know.

buzz819 said :

Innovation said :

Also, Buzz819 isn’t the maximum speed limit on all roundabouts 60k’s unless a lower speed limit is posted? If so, are you saying that the speed limit over the whole stretch should be 60k’s.

Umm no. The speed limit of a roundabout is the same limit as the road it is on. But you thinking that does explain why people are so confused about roundabouts.

no it isn’t round a bouts are give way intersections. you have to slow and be able to stop. I think you will find in the A.C.T roundabout speed limits are 40KP/H but it’s never enforced.

buzz819 said :

Innovation said :

Also, Buzz819 isn’t the maximum speed limit on all roundabouts 60k’s unless a lower speed limit is posted? If so, are you saying that the speed limit over the whole stretch should be 60k’s.

Umm no. The speed limit of a roundabout is the same limit as the road it is on. But you thinking that does explain why people are so confused about roundabouts.

1/ I’ll happily admit that I’m sure there are aspects of the 396 pages of road rules (for the ACT alone) that I don’t have down pat. Hence why I’m an advocate for regular (at least theory) testing for all road users.
2/ I’m keen for you to explain how my misunderstanding what the maximum possible speed limit in unmarked roundabouts would cause confusion when using roundabouts in general, especially since this assumption is no reflection of the speed that I would actually do in a roundabout.
3/ So, in the example on William Slim that you gave, are you saying that you want to still do 80km/h through those roundabouts or would rather do 60km/h for the entire length of road?
4/ And in giving your earlier answer to my original question, did you look up the road rules to be sure or have you memorised all 396 pages and your knowledge of road rules is flawless? If the latter, can I say, well done Rainman?

MonarchRepublic5:28 pm 05 Sep 11

Just to clarify – exiting this area along Kingsley Street (the one that joins Barry Drive), there is a sign indicating 40km/h (across the road from where this photo was taken), and no other signs are apparent looking down the street – so presumably Kingsley St is 40km/h for the length of the road (given some previous threads about speed signs though, that is a BIG assumption to be making). The 40km/h speed sign for Hutton St (which comes off Kingsley), can also be seen from where this photo was taken. A few speed zones appear to have changed recently, so these signs may be relatively recent additions.

dtc said :

astrojax said :

the speed limit is either 50 or 60km/h (I’m not sure),

it’s a suburban street, not otherwise marked… & you’re not sure??

& you have a licence?? 🙂

So to ‘defend’ myself. I don’t drive past here, I walk past this intersection on my way to the ANU. The street in question comes off Barry Drive (60 km/h at that spot) and I dont know if the speed limit changes after you turn because I have never had to look while in a car. And I never claimed to have a licence anyway.

When making assumptions about things you know nothing about, be prepared to be wrong.

Umm, he/she is not really in the wrong with their comment. All roads (not just suburban) in the ACT are 50km/h unless otherwise signposted. Therefore when you turn into the street it is 50km/h unless there is a sign advising otherwise.

If you have a licence you should know that…

astrojax said :

the speed limit is either 50 or 60km/h (I’m not sure),

it’s a suburban street, not otherwise marked… & you’re not sure??

& you have a licence?? 🙂

So to ‘defend’ myself. I don’t drive past here, I walk past this intersection on my way to the ANU. The street in question comes off Barry Drive (60 km/h at that spot) and I dont know if the speed limit changes after you turn because I have never had to look while in a car. And I never claimed to have a licence anyway.

When making assumptions about things you know nothing about, be prepared to be wrong.

the speed limit is either 50 or 60km/h (I’m not sure),

it’s a suburban street, not otherwise marked… & you’re not sure??

& you have a licence?? 🙂

LOL. Classic!

DermottBanana said :

p1 said :

Nice idea, but I suspect its adoption would result in this.

Ah, is there anything that can’t be referenced back to the Gospel according to Randall?

No. 🙂

krasny said :

In fairness, that forty isn’t a “this is a 40 road” sign, it’s advising the general campus speed limit. It actually reads “Maximum 40 unless a lower speed is indicated.”

Presumably the speed limit is 40 km/h in the 5m between the 40 sign and the 20 sign?

Also, once you hit the 10km/h hour zone you never get anywhere with a higher speed limmit, because you just get to the end of the car park and there is no through road. So its pretty redundant as a sign (as is the 20km/h sign).

Anyway, as I said, the photo is more for amusement than because I think it creates any safety or other issues.

However, 10km/h is a stupid speed for anywhere, most autos drive faster than that without even touching the accelerator. I’ve noticed that the shared zone along Childers St, previously 10km/h, is now up to 20km/h. Not that I have every seen a car obeying that speed.

DermottBanana2:27 pm 05 Sep 11

p1 said :

Nice idea, but I suspect its adoption would result in this.

Ah, is there anything that can’t be referenced back to the Gospel according to Randall?

Innovation said :

Also, Buzz819 isn’t the maximum speed limit on all roundabouts 60k’s unless a lower speed limit is posted? If so, are you saying that the speed limit over the whole stretch should be 60k’s.

Umm no. The speed limit of a roundabout is the same limit as the road it is on. But you thinking that does explain why people are so confused about roundabouts.

DermottBanana said :

A few years ago, in NRMA’s Open Road magazine, I saw a letter written in which suggested the 70 & 90 limits be abolished (and most the other ‘minor’ limits severely rationalised), and all the white posts we see (the metre-high ones withe the reflectors) be colour-coded to indicate what the speed limit was.
Most sensible suggestion I ever heard on the topic.

Nice idea, but I suspect its adoption would result in this.

Doesn’t matter – Everyone will ignore all 3 signs and drive at their own speed (including Police/ANU Security)

MonarchRepublic1:54 pm 05 Sep 11

creative_canberran said :

I don’t really get the point of the 10km/h sign (and for University students even the 20 seems overly cautious.)

The 10km/h sign is at the start of a ‘shared zone’, and with the number of students that meander across the roads without so much as a glance, it seems it may be necessary. As for the 20km/h zone, it is basically at the entrance to the carpark, and I believe 20km/h or below is pretty standard for carparks.

Alas, given the driving standard of some of the people commuting in and around the ANU, those speeds may not be slow enough!

creative_canberran1:30 pm 05 Sep 11

Felix the Cat said :

I think the ANU may be classed as private property so the rules regarding distances and types of signs may not be applicable.

Commonwealth property rather than private property so the Australian standard should still be applicable. Aside from parking, the roads are subject to ACT law.

DermottBanana1:23 pm 05 Sep 11

A few years ago, in NRMA’s Open Road magazine, I saw a letter written in which suggested the 70 & 90 limits be abolished (and most the other ‘minor’ limits severely rationalised), and all the white posts we see (the metre-high ones withe the reflectors) be colour-coded to indicate what the speed limit was.
Most sensible suggestion I ever heard on the topic.

Felix the Cat1:20 pm 05 Sep 11

I think the ANU may be classed as private property so the rules regarding distances and types of signs may not be applicable.

creative_canberran1:12 pm 05 Sep 11

I don’t really get the point of the 10km/h sign (and for University students even the 20 seems overly cautious.) But seriously, could a radar even detect a vehicle going that slow with any accuracy and who is really going to bother enforcing it?

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Innovation said :

isn’t the maximum speed limit on all roundabouts 60k’s unless a lower speed limit is posted?

Well even on a high performance sports tyre you’d be hard pressed to do anything more than 60 on all but the largest roundabouts (Yamba Dr in Woden for example). I don’t recall legally enforceable limit, but most roundabouts do have signposted suggested limits which are very conservative.

In fairness, that forty isn’t a “this is a 40 road” sign, it’s advising the general campus speed limit. It actually reads “Maximum 40 unless a lower speed is indicated.”

I notice while driving along Hinder St in Gungahlin on the weekend there were road work signs proudly proclaiming the speed limit was 50. The whole area is classified as a “high pedestrian traffic area” and is zoned as 40 and there are (admittedly stupidly high) signs to that effect. You’d think they’d check the original speed limit before putting up signs that are actually higher then what they are supposed to be, haha!

or the sign that says “this is a sign”

Thoroughly Smashed12:41 pm 05 Sep 11

Innovation said :

isn’t the maximum speed limit on all roundabouts 60k’s unless a lower speed limit is posted?

I haven’t heard that one before.

This photo does look ridiculous and seems nonsensical – why not start the street at 20k’s or even 10k’s? However, without having seen the standards, is there a possibility that the standards require graduated signage between certain speeds and/or over minimum distances (eg roads can’t go straight from 50 or 40 to 10k’s)?

Also, Buzz819 isn’t the maximum speed limit on all roundabouts 60k’s unless a lower speed limit is posted? If so, are you saying that the speed limit over the whole stretch should be 60k’s.

MonarchRepublic12:16 pm 05 Sep 11

I have a feeling Kingsley Street (where the pictured signs are located) and Hutton Street are both sign posted at 40km/h these days.

That doesn’t take away from the amusing display though.

How about between Chuculba Crescent and Dumas Street on William Slim Drive?

Just before the roundabout at Chuculba 80 zone to a 60 zone, just after the roundabout 60 zone to an 80 zone, just before the Baldwin Drive roundabout 80 – 60 then just after that roundabout back up to 80.

It’s fantastic, I think it is all in less then 2 – 3km as well on the one road

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