21 January 2014

Anyone want to do the admin for the Australian Christian Lobby?

| johnboy
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The Australian Christian Lobby is looking for Canberra staff:

ACL is seeking a highly motivated person to fill the full-time role of Administration Assistant/Receptionist in its national office, Canberra.

The appointment will primarily involve front desk duties such as answering phones, greeting visitors and managing the national office email account. Administrative duties will include significant support for managing ACL’s database, and supporter correspondence via mail and email, and other general duties as required.

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Woody Mann-Caruso said :

poetix said :

Every time he comments, a little angel of atheism dies.

What’s an angel? (Or was that a metaphor?)

It’s like when the cows come home, or when you’ve managed to herd cats, or when pigs fly.

Masquara said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

poetix said :

Every time he comments, a little angel of atheism dies.

What’s an angel? Is that the thing that killed all those innocent foreign babies as a negotiating tactic during a diplomatic dispute after biological weapons targeting civilians failed to have the desired effect? (Or was that a metaphor?)

You’d have to ask Julian Assange’s dad about that, wouldn’t you? He was over there shooting the breeze with the Syrian regime just the other day!

Careful: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/assanges-father-to-start-legal-action-against-tony-abbott-julie-bishop-20140102-3080z.html

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

poetix said :

Every time he comments, a little angel of atheism dies.

What’s an angel? Is that the thing that killed all those innocent foreign babies as a negotiating tactic during a diplomatic dispute after biological weapons targeting civilians failed to have the desired effect? (Or was that a metaphor?)

You’d have to ask Julian Assange’s dad about that, wouldn’t you? He was over there shooting the breeze with the Syrian regime just the other day!

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

poetix said :

Every time he comments, a little angel of atheism dies.

What’s an angel? Is that the thing that killed all those innocent foreign babies as a negotiating tactic during a diplomatic dispute after biological weapons targeting civilians failed to have the desired effect? (Or was that a metaphor?)

Metaphors are relatively non-lethal…

Woody Mann-Caruso10:28 pm 23 Jan 14

poetix said :

Every time he comments, a little angel of atheism dies.

What’s an angel? Is that the thing that killed all those innocent foreign babies as a negotiating tactic during a diplomatic dispute after biological weapons targeting civilians failed to have the desired effect? (Or was that a metaphor?)

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?Thought not.

Happily!

Are you an Aboriginal Australian or a Torres Strait Islander? Are you also a member of a death cult that worships a Jewish dissident zombie wizard because there’s totally a book about it? Then you’re delusional. You may well be a lovely person, a hard worker, and an all-round upstanding citizen, but you’re still delusional, and your inability* to reason your way out of your predicament means I worry about you.

*It’s almost certainly not your fault. It’s a meme that selects for gullibility / desperation, then rewards ignorance and punishes rational thought. You might as well try to give up smoking or cure depression by wishing really hard for an invisible imaginary friend to fix you**.

**Sorry, you call it ‘prayer’.

Every time he comments, a little angel of atheism dies.

Woody Mann-Caruso7:51 pm 23 Jan 14

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?Thought not.

Happily!

Are you an Aboriginal Australian or a Torres Strait Islander? Are you also a member of a death cult that worships a Jewish dissident zombie wizard because there’s totally a book about it? Then you’re delusional. You may well be a lovely person, a hard worker, and an all-round upstanding citizen, but you’re still delusional, and your inability* to reason your way out of your predicament means I worry about you.

*It’s almost certainly not your fault. It’s a meme that selects for gullibility / desperation, then rewards ignorance and punishes rational thought. You might as well try to give up smoking or cure depression by wishing really hard for an invisible imaginary friend to fix you**.

**Sorry, you call it ‘prayer’.

watto23 said :

Masquara said :

watto23 said :

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

I highly doubt that to be the case. Maybe they are told to do it on their census form. But they are not Christians and never were. Indigenous Australians like many Pacific islanders and Africans are Christian, because that religion got their first and forced their religion onto them. So maybe now hundreds of years later they are “Christians” but not because of choice necessarily and its the part of religion that upsets me the most. Forcing or telling others who to believe as you do.

You’re saying in effect that Indigenous Australians and Pacific Islanders are not capable of deciding their spiritual beliefs in a multifaith society? Tell that to a Tongan congregation! I dare you!

Actually they are not AS capable because they have been raised to believe in their religion and part of that process takes away any reasoning that another faith is even possible. So yes I’m kind of saying that. However I recognise they have Christian beliefs and are Christians and also they have freedom to choose even if that freedom has been distorted by the “facts” provided to them by the church.

My point is that before the missionaries they had tribal beliefs and other cultural beliefs and the only reason they are Christians now is because missionaries took it apon themselves to tell them they had it all wrong and save them from their terrible belief in their Tongan/Samoan/Fijian gods. Once religion is ingrained in a culture the ability to choose is very difficult because changing often means hostility towards the person changing their beliefs. Hostility could range from being left out of things, bullying (like the ACL does) or even violence.

The sames goes for Australia. Just because we were settled by a christian empire in Britain, doesn’t mean this country is christian. The ACL assumes uses this point to try and suggest it values are what all Australians should stick to. Lately the term Judo-Christianity has been used, because it adds numbers to their cause, even though they are different faiths.

We are a secular country by law and constitution. We are not a christian country or any other religious country. We are lucky that people in Australia have the freedom to choose. I don’t think in many countries you have the choice because doing so makes you an outcast.

Judo-Christianity is an interesting concept. I wonder what the sermons are like?

On a lighter note, someone, possibly Desmond Tutu, once said of missionaries in Africa:
“When the white man came to Africa, we had the land and they had the bibles. They said let us close our eyes and pray.
When we opened our eyes, they had the land and we had the bibles”.

justsomeaussie said :

I’m sure catholic’s doesn’t call themselves a non Anglican over a catholic.

In 1950s Australia possibly, just like in Northern Ireland now. And there are other places where the rivalry and animosity between similar religions is much stronger than between those that are very different. (In NI Jewish people used to be asked if they were Catholic Jewish or Protestant Jewish – I presume they immediately packed their bags and left for a slightly saner environment.)

IP

bigfeet said :

poetix said :

And some people raised as atheists, and atheists until they are no longer spring chickens, read the gospels and find themselves surprised into believing, and are very happy with that….

And that’s fine. In fact that is the way it should be. People making up their own mind when they are old enough to examine all options and understand what they mean and how it fits into their life.

Whatever consenting adults choose to do in their own home in no-ones business but their own.

As long as they keep it in out of public view, and don’t try to force it on others…including their own or anyone else’s children.

exactly: religion is a lot like a penis. great if you’ve got one, be proud, do what you like with it in your home… but don’t whip it out in public and, god forbid, don’t ram it down my [or my children’s] throat!

justsomeaussie said :

poetix said :

And some people raised as atheists,

I do enjoy this concept. It’s locked in the Christians rights’ mind of the “atheist threat”.

Atheism otherwise known as, the lack of a belief in a deity is the default position. Just like not believing in fairies, uniforms or anything else till there is sufficient evidence.

Parents don’t raise atheist children anymore than they raise non stamp collectors. It’s problematic to define something by what it doesn’t believe in or isn’t. I’m sure catholic’s doesn’t call themselves a non Anglican over a catholic.

Just for clarity sake, atheism isn’t the belief that there definitely is no gods, it relates purely to the god claim. What a lot of people think is atheism is actually anti theism or confuses it with agnosticism which is about what you know. Agnosticism isn’t some middle ground between atheism and theism as people (including Pell) think.

I think your unicorn is wearing a uniform.

justsomeaussie12:17 pm 23 Jan 14

poetix said :

And some people raised as atheists,

I do enjoy this concept. It’s locked in the Christians rights’ mind of the “atheist threat”.

Atheism otherwise known as, the lack of a belief in a deity is the default position. Just like not believing in fairies, uniforms or anything else till there is sufficient evidence.

Parents don’t raise atheist children anymore than they raise non stamp collectors. It’s problematic to define something by what it doesn’t believe in or isn’t. I’m sure catholic’s doesn’t call themselves a non Anglican over a catholic.

Just for clarity sake, atheism isn’t the belief that there definitely is no gods, it relates purely to the god claim. What a lot of people think is atheism is actually anti theism or confuses it with agnosticism which is about what you know. Agnosticism isn’t some middle ground between atheism and theism as people (including Pell) think.

Masquara said :

watto23 said :

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

I highly doubt that to be the case. Maybe they are told to do it on their census form. But they are not Christians and never were. Indigenous Australians like many Pacific islanders and Africans are Christian, because that religion got their first and forced their religion onto them. So maybe now hundreds of years later they are “Christians” but not because of choice necessarily and its the part of religion that upsets me the most. Forcing or telling others who to believe as you do.

You’re saying in effect that Indigenous Australians and Pacific Islanders are not capable of deciding their spiritual beliefs in a multifaith society? Tell that to a Tongan congregation! I dare you!

Actually they are not AS capable because they have been raised to believe in their religion and part of that process takes away any reasoning that another faith is even possible. So yes I’m kind of saying that. However I recognise they have Christian beliefs and are Christians and also they have freedom to choose even if that freedom has been distorted by the “facts” provided to them by the church.

My point is that before the missionaries they had tribal beliefs and other cultural beliefs and the only reason they are Christians now is because missionaries took it apon themselves to tell them they had it all wrong and save them from their terrible belief in their Tongan/Samoan/Fijian gods. Once religion is ingrained in a culture the ability to choose is very difficult because changing often means hostility towards the person changing their beliefs. Hostility could range from being left out of things, bullying (like the ACL does) or even violence.

The sames goes for Australia. Just because we were settled by a christian empire in Britain, doesn’t mean this country is christian. The ACL assumes uses this point to try and suggest it values are what all Australians should stick to. Lately the term Judo-Christianity has been used, because it adds numbers to their cause, even though they are different faiths.

We are a secular country by law and constitution. We are not a christian country or any other religious country. We are lucky that people in Australia have the freedom to choose. I don’t think in many countries you have the choice because doing so makes you an outcast.

poetix said :

And some people raised as atheists, and atheists until they are no longer spring chickens, read the gospels and find themselves surprised into believing, and are very happy with that….

And that’s fine. In fact that is the way it should be. People making up their own mind when they are old enough to examine all options and understand what they mean and how it fits into their life.

Whatever consenting adults choose to do in their own home in no-ones business but their own.

As long as they keep it in out of public view, and don’t try to force it on others…including their own or anyone else’s children.

HiddenDragon12:55 am 23 Jan 14

poetix said :

No, thank you, I am most definitely not interested in working for this mob.

This intrigued me, under the heading “personal attributes’:

‘Servant leadership qualities’

Please explain.

Servant leadership qualities = must be a practising devotee of Downton Abbey – detailed questions will be asked!

Who’d’ve thunk we’d get to a second page on this – wow! – will there be a CT spinoff???

IrishPete said :

Masquara said :

CrocodileGandhi said :

If your whole family and basically every person you’ve ever met is of one religion, the extent to which you actually “choose” your religion is limited.

In oppressive societies, sure. But in Australia, how so? People are free to choose their religion and only members of, say, The Family have limited choices. The rest of us can be Satanists. Or cult followers of Sarah Hanson-Young or Brian Harradine or Doug Anthony or Barcham. Or, hopefully, atheists.

Sure, I chose to be baptised when a few weeks old, to be taken to church every Sunday, what schools I went to and so on.

I think you have missed CrocodileGandhi’s point

If you manage to retain any independent thinking ability into your teens, you might just be able to choose not to accept what they have tried to indoctrinate you with The rarity of people changing religions suggests most people do not managed to retain that ability. Many people reject religion altogether, few “adopt” another religion.

IP

And some people raised as atheists, and atheists until they are no longer spring chickens, read the gospels and find themselves surprised into believing, and are very happy with that.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio…

Masquara said :

CrocodileGandhi said :

If your whole family and basically every person you’ve ever met is of one religion, the extent to which you actually “choose” your religion is limited.

In oppressive societies, sure. But in Australia, how so? People are free to choose their religion and only members of, say, The Family have limited choices. The rest of us can be Satanists. Or cult followers of Sarah Hanson-Young or Brian Harradine or Doug Anthony or Barcham. Or, hopefully, atheists.

Sure, I chose to be baptised when a few weeks old, to be taken to church every Sunday, what schools I went to and so on.

I think you have missed CrocodileGandhi’s point

If you manage to retain any independent thinking ability into your teens, you might just be able to choose not to accept what they have tried to indoctrinate you with The rarity of people changing religions suggests most people do not managed to retain that ability. Many people reject religion altogether, few “adopt” another religion.

IP

watto23 said :

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

I highly doubt that to be the case. Maybe they are told to do it on their census form. But they are not Christians and never were. Indigenous Australians like many Pacific islanders and Africans are Christian, because that religion got their first and forced their religion onto them. So maybe now hundreds of years later they are “Christians” but not because of choice necessarily and its the part of religion that upsets me the most. Forcing or telling others who to believe as you do.

Interesting about the African Christians. You do know the Ethiopian church is amongst the early christian churches? Predates us Anglos by quote a few years.

CrocodileGandhi said :

If your whole family and basically every person you’ve ever met is of one religion, the extent to which you actually “choose” your religion is limited.

In oppressive societies, sure. But in Australia, how so? People are free to choose their religion and only members of, say, The Family have limited choices. The rest of us can be Satanists. Or cult followers of Sarah Hanson-Young or Brian Harradine or Doug Anthony or Barcham. Or, hopefully, atheists.

CrocodileGandhi4:54 pm 22 Jan 14

Masquara said :

watto23 said :

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

I highly doubt that to be the case. Maybe they are told to do it on their census form. But they are not Christians and never were. Indigenous Australians like many Pacific islanders and Africans are Christian, because that religion got their first and forced their religion onto them. So maybe now hundreds of years later they are “Christians” but not because of choice necessarily and its the part of religion that upsets me the most. Forcing or telling others who to believe as you do.

You’re saying in effect that Indigenous Australians and Pacific Islanders are not capable of deciding their spiritual beliefs in a multifaith society? Tell that to a Tongan congregation! I dare you!

It would be silly to suggest that indigenous Australian and Pacific islanders are incapable of deciding their spiritual beliefs. But the extent to which one can make a decision is limited when a particular religion is the only game in town. Some 90% of Tongans are some variety of Christian. Over 95% of Pakistanis are Muslim. If your whole family and basically every person you’ve ever met is of one religion, the extent to which you actually “choose” your religion is limited. That is to say, if George Pell was born in Pakistan to Pakistani parents, do you think he’d still be Catholic?

Deref said :

Better called the Christian Taliban, these extremists weild far more political influence than their numbers would indicate. The reason for that is one of the Great Mysteries.

Rilleh? Who have they been bombing and maiming lately?

watto23 said :

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

I highly doubt that to be the case. Maybe they are told to do it on their census form. But they are not Christians and never were. Indigenous Australians like many Pacific islanders and Africans are Christian, because that religion got their first and forced their religion onto them. So maybe now hundreds of years later they are “Christians” but not because of choice necessarily and its the part of religion that upsets me the most. Forcing or telling others who to believe as you do.

You’re saying in effect that Indigenous Australians and Pacific Islanders are not capable of deciding their spiritual beliefs in a multifaith society? Tell that to a Tongan congregation! I dare you!

I prefer the proper web page http://australianchristianlobby.org/

*A Voice for Values (by which we mean ‘cats’)*

Better called the Christian Taliban, these extremists weild far more political influence than their numbers would indicate. The reason for that is one of the Great Mysteries.

It’s be great to plant a mole with the task of finding out how they do it.

watto23 said :

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

I highly doubt that to be the case. Maybe they are told to do it on their census form. But they are not Christians and never were. Indigenous Australians like many Pacific islanders and Africans are Christian, because that religion got their first and forced their religion onto them. So maybe now hundreds of years later they are “Christians” but not because of choice necessarily and its the part of religion that upsets me the most. Forcing or telling others who to believe as you do.

Archbishop Tutu springs to mind in regard to your African comments. Why don’t you write him an email and tell him that he is not a Christian? Or tell the many Sudanese worshippers in Anglican churches here in Canberra that their faith is not real?

I’m also sure that Indigenous Christians would also appreciate your insights on why their beliefs are not real. They know about historic and continuing oppression much more than most.

poetix said :

Seriously, though, I think it is a real shame that these people are pushing to position themselves as the ‘Christian’ voice.

Christianity is a broad church…(-:

Add to that, besides practising Christians there are many, many “cultural Christians” (including lots of the Sunday Assembly folk). So anyone who knocks Christianity per se, rather than objecting to the crazy lunar fundamentalists specifically, has it all wrong.

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

I highly doubt that to be the case. Maybe they are told to do it on their census form. But they are not Christians and never were. Indigenous Australians like many Pacific islanders and Africans are Christian, because that religion got their first and forced their religion onto them. So maybe now hundreds of years later they are “Christians” but not because of choice necessarily and its the part of religion that upsets me the most. Forcing or telling others who to believe as you do.

c_c™ said :

LSWCHP said :

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

What? That’s the strangest conflation of unrelated concepts I’ve ever heard of.

If this is the strangest conflation of unrelated concepts you’ve heard of, I gather you’ve not heard of the good book then. I’m still puzzled by how Corinthians 11:14 works, for obvious reasons.

I’m not sure if you mean 1 Corinthians 11:14 (about haircuts) or 2 Corinthians 11:14 (about Satan turning into an angel of light). So I’m not sure if you mean that you have long hair (if you are male), or are an eager minion.

Seriously, though, I think it is a real shame that these people are pushing to position themselves as the ‘Christian’ voice. Christianity is a broad church…(-:

LSWCHP said :

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

What? That’s the strangest conflation of unrelated concepts I’ve ever heard of.

If this is the strangest conflation of unrelated concepts you’ve heard of, I gather you’ve not heard of the good book then. I’m still puzzled by how Corinthians 11:14 works, for obvious reasons.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd10:44 pm 21 Jan 14

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

Not exactly sure what point you are trying to make there, masky baby. Are you trying to force a race card to stop anybody having a go at blatant morons?

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

The majority of Christians are nice. The ACL are not, and deserve all the mockery and ridicule we can gather.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

poetix said :

‘Servant leadership qualities’. Please explain.

“Traditional leadership generally involves the accumulation and exercise of power by one at the “top of the pyramid.” By comparison, the servant-leader shares power, puts the needs of others first and helps people develop and perform as highly as possible.”

That’s fantastic! Sounds just like how the APS upper leadership run the show!! Bwahahahahah…..

Hey…I’m a three post nutbag in this thread! Woot! 🙂

Masquara said :

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

What? That’s the strangest conflation of unrelated concepts I’ve ever heard of.

I’ll cheerfully mock religious nutters like the ACL, regardless of the colour of their skin. If I’m bagging such a nutter, it’ll be because of their silly beliefs. They may be indigenous or they may not be, but it won’t affect the bagging in any way.

Most Indigenous Australians are Christian. Anyone care to knock Indigenous Australians over that?

Thought not.

I would rather dig holes.

NoniDoll said :

I’d be tempted to put my best foot forward and apply, just to see how much damage I could do before they sacked me.

Yeah…it’d be a hoot!

Redirect incoming calls to a brothel in Fyshwick…format the hard drives of every computer you can find…run every piece of paper through a shredder…make a long distance call to the telephone time service in New York to run up the phone bill…fax a press release about perversion in the ranks of the ACL to all media outlets…

The possibilities are endless. 🙂

CrocodileGandhi4:07 pm 21 Jan 14

tim_c said :

CrocodileGandhi said :

Would they be allowed to require that the candidate is Christian?

Would the Greens be allowed to require that their candidates agree with their [Greens] policies, opinions and views?

Probably. Perhaps a better question is, would they be allowed to require that the candidate is not gay?

CrocodileGandhi said :

Would they be allowed to require that the candidate is Christian?

Would the Greens be allowed to require that their candidates agree with their [Greens] policies, opinions and views?

I don’t wish for them to stop voicing their opinions. I need a laugh some times.
I just want them to stop thinking they speak for the majority of Australians.

I’d be tempted to put my best foot forward and apply, just to see how much damage I could do before they sacked me.

Oh the temptation to go in for an interview wearing one of those pen cameras, dressed as Peter Allen with a couple of maracas. Their reactions should be YouTube worthy. Something tells me the ACL isn’t an equal opportunity employer.

Mordd said :

The only ACL i recognise is this one: http://www.aclweb.org/what-is-cl

poor robbie kruse has done his acl and won’t be going to brasil, nor will his former teammates in the central coast be likley to do well in this season’s acl…

another calamity looming?

poetix said :

‘Servant leadership qualities’

Please explain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_leadership

Tempted to take the job to gain access to their email address and mailing list….

But my commitment to Hey Zues and his church is probably lacking.

poetix said :

‘Servant leadership qualities’

Please explain.

??? +1

CrocodileGandhi12:23 pm 21 Jan 14

Would they be allowed to require that the candidate is Christian?

Woody Mann-Caruso12:23 pm 21 Jan 14

poetix said :

‘Servant leadership qualities’. Please explain.

“Traditional leadership generally involves the accumulation and exercise of power by one at the “top of the pyramid.” By comparison, the servant-leader shares power, puts the needs of others first and helps people develop and perform as highly as possible.”

The only ACL i recognise is this one: http://www.aclweb.org/what-is-cl

No, thank you, I am most definitely not interested in working for this mob.

This intrigued me, under the heading “personal attributes’:

‘Servant leadership qualities’

Please explain.

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